Looking at your signature it seems you agree that it is odd to be called veteran if someone has not played 1000 day's. Because now someone can become veteran in 1 day.
Actually, even without this new LTS perk someone could be called veteran if they had not played for 1000 days. All they needed was to have paid for 1000 days.
Looking at your signature it seems you agree that it is odd to be called veteran if someone has not played 1000 day's. Because now someone can become veteran in 1 day.
It was a joke haha.
A ref. to the 'ole, "A sucker is born every minute.." and so forth. :P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] EXPLORE.
Dec '07 Account I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
I find it fascinating that people are really calling all the long time "Veteran" LTS entitlist or it's vanity etc. What I think a lot of you are forgetting is that STO is here now because of these people who decided to stump up the money (more than the current price) up front, to allow this (poor) game to be where it is now.
STO would not have survived 6 months if it was sub based only, as people can come and go when they want, whereas an LTS meant they had the money already regardless of whether you play or not.
You find poor games that don't have faith in their product, will offer a LTS sub. And this LTS up front money is what kept STO on life support. I wonder if they will off an LTS for NW.
As much as I find it funny that both old school and new school LTS are having a TRIBBLE for tat, I still cannot believe that anyone don't see where the original LTS should have something for support STO from day.
The real question you should all be asking is where is the money going? It's certainly not going into this game. Does Lock boxes really require such a large overhead?
I wonder when Teflon Dan is going to come out and explain the reasoning on this.
Okay, I have been following this thread for a long time now, having been a Lifetime Subscriber to this game, I would simply like to point out that both people complaining about having this available to Lifetime Subscriptions and people complaining about Pay to Win need to stop. Both arguments are wrong, this is an incentive to people who would WANT to buy the Lifetime Subscription but have been hanging on the edge due to the incredible lack of overall incentive that has surrounded the Lifetime Subscription. Let's take into consideration for a moment that all of us who dropped the 299.00 U.S.D. to have full access to this game at any time we wanted without further commitment on our end. Do you somehow honestly expect that the majority of their money came from us? No, in fact that majority of the money they have made has come from the micro transactions and the monthly 15 U.S.D. subscribers. There have been many people upset by the fact that the lifetime subscription didn't have any kind of real "incentive" ever since the F2P platform, and that is something I wholly agree with, considering the 500 point stipend on top of the incredibly cheap dilithium conversion rates in game, there is nothing we as a Lifetime subscription player get as any kind of real perk aside from minor things like respec tokens while leveling, as things like the automatic account wide banking system and unlocked EC cap.
While nice to have, these things are all trivialities when it comes to a 299.00 U.S.D. Investment on our part, this particular bone they are throwing out concerning the Lifetime Subscription is a very good thing to future people who would want to consider putting that much money into the game all at once. I myself am very happy to see that potential future Lifetime subscribers can have the chance to gain something that would make them feel the investment is worth doing. Both sides of this argument about people getting something without having to wait or some such need to stop complaining. The only difference between you and a person who payed 15 U.S.D. a month for the same time you played is that technically, they have given more money on a commitment than you have. Just because you payed the money all up front doesn't make you any more special than the person who payed 15 U.S.D. a month for almost three straight years.
If you have issues with this deal for a Lifetime Subscription, then that's your own particular problem, I myself find this deal to be very acceptable to me and like I said before, I have been a Lifetime Subscriber for a long time. The people who feel this is unfair have major entitlement issues. Right now, if anyone is getting shafted by this deal, is the 15 U.S.D. a month players who have not been paying for three straight years. If you want to complain about this deal, do it on behalf of them.
The people who feel this is unfair have major entitlement issues.
Please stop generalizing - it's becoming as tiresome as this whole debate. Perhaps there's just some people out there that hold others accountable to higher standards than you do.
Right now, if anyone is getting shafted by this deal, is the 15 U.S.D. a month players who have not been paying for three straight years. If you want to complain about this deal, do it on behalf of them.
We can at least agree on this - IMO, all the monthly subscribers should have been upgraded to LTS as a courtesy after they'd subscribed for a certain period of time.
I think that if they're allowing you to buy the vet rewards now, they should at least change the name to reflect what it really is. Lifer rewards. Any Veteran title should reman (see what i did there?) a time based title and therefore should not be for purchase. You can't just buy a uniform and go around calling yourself a veteran, that kind of defeats the term all together.
Please stop generalizing - it's becoming as tiresome as this whole debate. Perhaps there's just some people out there that hold others accountable to higher standards than you do.
We can at least agree on this - IMO, all the monthly subscribers should have been upgraded to LTS as a courtesy after they'd subscribed for a certain period of time.
If you are going to take one single sentence and somehow try to paint that as my argument then please don't bother to snip it out and leave the comment to yourself. I illustrated a point regarding the nature of this particular program and you have twisted one sentence to turn it into something else. It was not a generalization, it was a statement about the people who have a problem with this particular deal about the incentive it brings for future Lifetime subscribers, that they DO in fact have major entitlement issues. Please read the entire post before you judge what is being said.
I think that if they're allowing you to buy the vet rewards now, they should at least change the name to reflect what it really is. Lifer rewards. Any Veteran title should reman (see what i did there?) a time based title and therefore should not be for purchase. You can't just buy a uniform and go around calling yourself a veteran, that kind of defeats the term all together.
Which is largely connected to the outrage I think.
Some people that have been with this game since the beginning feel that the title 'veteran' has some meaning - and perhaps they've been vocal supporters, perhaps they've worked within the game to foster communities. Perhaps they just like to feel that they've done their part (financially or otherwise) in supporting something they enjoy for all this time.
The way Cryptic has sloppily pushed out this new LTS hasn't taken them into any kind of consideration - buying an LTS now buys you the 'veteran' title - it's completely meaningless.
If you are going to take one single sentence and somehow try to paint that as my argument then please don't bother to snip it out and leave the comment to yourself. I illustrated a point regarding the nature of this particular program and you have twisted one sentence to turn it into something else. It was not a generalization, it was a statement about the people who have a problem with this particular deal about the incentive it brings for future Lifetime subscribers, that they DO in fact have major entitlement issues. Please read the entire post before you judge what is being said.
I read your entire post. And my comment still stands - you made a gross generalization that simply wasn't true. That doesn't invalidate some of the other things you said, but neither does it lend any weight to them either.
Which is largely connected to the outrage I think.
Some people that have been with this game since the beginning feel that the title 'veteran' has some meaning - and perhaps they've been vocal supporters, perhaps they've worked within the game to foster communities. Perhaps they just like to feel that they've done their part (financially or otherwise) in supporting something they enjoy for all this time.
The way Cryptic has sloppily pushed out this new LTS hasn't taken them into any kind of consideration - buying an LTS now buys you the 'veteran' title - it's completely meaningless.
If people are going to get outraged by something like that, then there is a totally different problem. If all of the work you have done financially or otherwise to support this game is something you fell you "need" to be recognized for, then the picture you are painting for yourself is not one of a person who supports this game because you like it and want to see it improved. The picture you are painting is, "Hey I did more than the next guy and I should feel special for it". Now, I hate to say it since I have already stated it once, but that IS an entitlement issue. If you feel like you have to be singled out and recognized for doing more of something than someone else, then you are looking at it like it's some kind of competition, which is understandable but pointless. This is a game, but this particular deal has nothing to do with playing the game, it's about giving a perk that feels like it's worth purchasing a Lifetime Subscription for in the first place. So many people in this thread have tried to make this into something else when the facts are plain as day. If this upsets you so much, it's not because of what has been done. It's because YOU value yourself more than any other player who supports this game. This is a very smart thing to do and it can only help the game as a whole, those of you who somehow feel that you are being cheated for having been a Lifetime Subscriber for almost three years need to relax. All players in some form or another even if they are a F2P account are supporting this game and helping to keep it alive so the rest of us can continue to enjoy playing the game we invested in. If other people want to enjoy perks like this from a Lifetime subscription then we should be wholly endorsing it, not tearing down other people. If you do support this game then feel bad for the people who are getting shafted by this, which are the 15 U.S.D. a month players who don't get to benefit from this who have been paying for less than 3 years. They are the only ones right now technically who are getting shafted by this since they are stuck having to get all the rewards the "hard" way.
You know, it's too late, the damage is done and it's not going to help or matter, cause you can't really expect or ask them to reneg on the deal they've made with so many over the past few days, but I'm going to go ahead and say it anyway:
The middle ground, the way they could've done something like this without the black-and-white elitists-versus-gimmes battle that erupted, alternatively to keeping just one or two things in reserve, would've been to have the LTS do an instant recount of your veteran days the moment you bought it. Meaning your number of days would be however many days have passed since your account was created, whether those days had you subscribing or not, whether you went F2P or not, or whether you plainly never paid to play, and that would of course include the free month that came with the box. A lot of people would've skipped ahead, a lot of people would've skipped right to 998 days, and the vets would've been okay with it cause it proves these guys were at least there. (Some of you F2P 'vets', you weren't there man! You didn't see the things we saw! People suffocating in sector space, starships crashing down into ground maps, it was awful man! People were dropping like flies! I know guys who lost like half their fleet!)
Again, pointless hindsight, but you never know... someone at Cryptic might read it and it might save the internet from another category 5 ****storm if they remember next time something like this comes up with, say, Neverwinter.
I read your entire post. And my comment still stands - you made a gross generalization that simply wasn't true. That doesn't invalidate some of the other things you said, but neither does it lend any weight to them either.
*sigh* It was not a gross generalization and if you had actually read the implications of the comment to begin with, granted it's my own fault for not putting it into obvious context since you would rather nitpick about it as a standalone sentence. The comment reflects the entire post about the people who are day one Lifetime Subscribers think it is somehow "unfair" to all of them. Which you would have known if you weren't so determined to make the comment into something else.
Okay, I have been following this thread for a long time now, having been a Lifetime Subscriber to this game, I would simply like to point out that both people complaining about having this available to Lifetime Subscriptions and people complaining about Pay to Win need to stop...
I think very few people are actually questioning the amount of money spent. This is about the time spent in-game. While it's true that some LTS players don't actually play the game like vets, it's the people who have played the game constantly and dedicated a lot of time and effort that feel marginalised by the sudden sense that new players with an LTS can pretend to be vets like them.
The vet reward change is great for anyone who didn't buy an LTS the first year it was offered. But for those who bought in early, especially those who were close to having all rewards anyway, the change did very little for them. That is the complaint people are bringing up, and it's a legitimate one, so selling the argument as trivial and asking them to stop is simply not fair.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
I think very few people are actually questioning the amount of money spent. This is about the time spent in-game. While it's true that some LTS players don't actually play the game like vets, it?s the people who have played the game constantly and dedicated a lot of time and effort that feel marginalised by the sudden sense that new players with an LTS can pretend to be vets like them.
The vet reward change is great for anyone who didn?t buy an LTS the first year it was offered. But for those who bought in early, especially those who were close to having all rewards anyway, the change did very little for them. That is the complaint people are bringing up, and it?s a legitimate one, so selling the argument as trivial and asking them to stop is simply not fair.
^ /10char...........
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] EXPLORE.
Dec '07 Account I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
*sigh* It was not a gross generalization and if you had actually read the implications of the comment to begin with, granted it's my own fault for not putting it into obvious context since you would rather nitpick about it as a standalone sentence. The comment reflects the entire post about the people who are day one Lifetime Subscribers think it is somehow "unfair" to all of them. Which you would have known if you weren't so determined to make the comment into something else.
Well, I only just read through your last post which goes even further to make a lot of assumptions about me - rather than prolong this I'll simply restate that I hold people to a higher standard than it seems you do. I expect a lot from people, both in business and in my personal life - and I give a great deal in return.
My issues with Cryptic reside more with the manner in which this was handled than specifically with what was done. If this was always their intention (and the evidence is clearly there that it was not) then there were ways to do it that were more respectful of the long-term supporters of this game.
I think very few people are actually questioning the amount of money spent. This is about the time spent in-game. While it's true that some LTS players don't actually play the game like vets, it?s the people who have played the game constantly and dedicated a lot of time and effort that feel marginalised by the sudden sense that new players with an LTS can pretend to be vets like them.
The vet reward change is great for anyone who didn?t buy an LTS the first year it was offered. But for those who bought in early, especially those who were close to having all rewards anyway, the change did very little for them. That is the complaint people are bringing up, and it?s a legitimate one, so selling the argument as trivial and asking them to stop is simply not fair.
It is 100% trivial, and I'll explain why. For all of us who have been Lifetime Subscribers since the game came out, we have had the ability to see absolutely everything that has been in place in this game, we have put forth our two cents worth of input. We have helped to develop other players. We have done all these various things. The reason why this argument is 100% trivial is because the ones getting into an uproar somehow feel that their money is now considered worthless because other people who now fork out the money for a Lifetime Subscription will get the EXACT same perks. Let's not even acknowledge how many of those people have put forth more money on a consistent basis either through a monthly subscription or putting money into the cash store on a monthly basis. Let's not take into consideration how other people could have easily spent twice as much as some of these first day Lifetime Subscribers. The argument alone regardless of intent puts entitlement first. These new people who pick up the Lifetime Subscription are not getting anything more than those of us who have been here for almost three years.
They are simply being caught up to us. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with this, in fact if they didn't get caught up to us I would be very upset by that because time frame and length of your subscription do not show any more loyalty to a game. If you keep playing the game regardless of subscription status then you are clearly loyal to the game. A lifetime Subscription is merely a statement saying, "I support this game to the degree that I am willing to spend this money to help keep it running as long as possible." Which is great, but what about the day one people who have payed on a month to month basis for that same amount of time? They too have made that same statement and they have done it making a much stronger commitment by continuing to spend that money month to month. We as a lifetime Subscriber after having dropped 299.00 U.S.D. don't have any more obligations, we get full access to everything without ever NEEDING to spend another dime to enjoy it. Now you tell me where all of us who have been Lifetime Subscribers have any right at all whatsoever since we have no more obligations financially have any right to ridicule a system that will give the exact same rewards we have had to someone else who just fronted the money to do so? And please do not bring up the discounted sale for 199.00 U.S.D. yes, I get the reasoning behind that argument in regards to that question but it's not required.
The argument is 100% pointless from the fact that ALL lifetime subscribers will all be enjoying all of the same perks, which frankly it should be that way anyway. Too many people have taken this "veteran" title type stuff way too personally and frankly it's gotten well beyond annoying concerning the Lifetime Subscribers like us, not that it needs to be said but the veteran rewards are hardly worth complaining about in the large scheme of things. Almost all of it is completely cosmetic to begin with, uniforms/titles/ship skin coloring. About the only things that provide any kind of real established long term things are the things like the Duty Officer mission for an extra one thousand dilithium ore refining/The android bridge officer/The new ship. Wow, a whopping three things and only one of them has any direct application outside of personal benefit.........Really "veteran" subscribers? Is this what you want to be remembered complaining about? I'm a veteran subscriber and I see absolutely nothing wrong with this at all what so ever. I must be one of the few who actually sees this for what it is.
Regardless, I have said my peace it's not going to change the opinions of those who somehow feel they have been screwed when in fact they haven't. Safe explorations everyone.
So I have barely been playing this game the last few months. I logged on last night and received my 900 and 1000 day rewards.
Okay, I understand why Cryptic wants to do this, but why include the veteran titles?
Personally, I do not use the veteran titles, but I know some people do and it seems kind of ridiculous to allow someone to acquire the titles just because they bought a lifetime subscription yesterday.
Well, I only just read through your last post which goes even further to make a lot of assumptions about me - rather than prolong this I'll simply restate that I hold people to a higher standard than it seems you do. I expect a lot from people, both in business and in my personal life - and I give a great deal in return.
My issues with Cryptic reside more with the manner in which this was handled than specifically with what was done. If this was always their intention (and the evidence is clearly there that it was not) then there were ways to do it that were more respectful of the long-term supporters of this game.
If you do not see the obvious level of "entitlement" in that series of words you posted then all you have done is prove exactly what I was talking about. And I'll simply leave you with that to ponder on, I am done with this topic.
I wholly agree with previous posters that it is about time spent in game.
That is why I believe the least Cryptic could do is to look at in-game and forum titles and make them meaningful.
The Career Officer title is fine, but the Veteran title should have to be earned, either by time served (length of subscription) and/or by some sort of cumulative Accolade point system, which is a better tracker of time spent in all aspects of gameplay.
The rest of the perks (unlocks, in-game items, ships) I agree should be at time of purchase (LTS) and no waiting.
If you do not see the obvious level of "entitlement" in that series of words you posted then all you have done is prove exactly what I was talking about. And I'll simply leave you with that to ponder on, I am done with this topic.
I think any paying customer is entitled to respect - particularly a long-term, loyal one. But since we don't see eye-to-eye on this then there's no point in continuing the discussion - we'll just have to agree to disagree.
If people are going to get outraged by something like that, then there is a totally different problem. If all of the work you have done financially or otherwise to support this game is something you fell you "need" to be recognized for, then the picture you are painting for yourself is not one of a person who supports this game because you like it and want to see it improved. The picture you are painting is, "Hey I did more than the next guy and I should feel special for it". Now, I hate to say it since I have already stated it once, but that IS an entitlement issue. If you feel like you have to be singled out and recognized for doing more of something than someone else, then you are looking at it like it's some kind of competition, which is understandable but pointless.
Perhaps you could explain why you feel that someone who has done the time has issues with entitlement. Isn't credit given where credit is due? Sounds to me like you are more concerned with discrediting those who have done the time. Perhaps you are the one with the entitlement issue. More than anything, like others have said, this reeks of a common theme in society today - instead of earning what you have/want you can just pay for that status if you have the money.
*Edit* Ignore this post - it's a response to another thread that got merged in as part of the big merge-and-try-to-make-it-look-like-this-never-happened endeavour that's underway...
So I have barely been playing this game the last few months. I logged on last night and received my 900 and 1000 day rewards.
Okay, I understand why Cryptic wants to do this, but why include the veteran titles?
Personally, I do not use the veteran titles, but I know some people do and it seems kind of ridiculous to allow someone to acquire the titles just because they bought a lifetime subscription yesterday.
I wholly agree.
That is why I believe the least Cryptic could do is to look at in-game and forum titles and make them meaningful.
The Career Officer title is fine, but the Veteran title should have to be earned, either by time served (length of subscription) and/or by some sort of cumulative Accolade point system, which is a better tracker of time spent in all aspects of gameplay.
PS. In reply to Logical Spock in another thread he started that was amalgamated into this one....
Well, I only just read through your last post which goes even further to make a lot of assumptions about me - rather than prolong this I'll simply restate that I hold people to a higher standard than it seems you do. I expect a lot from people, both in business and in my personal life - and I give a great deal in return.
My issues with Cryptic reside more with the manner in which this was handled than specifically with what was done. If this was always their intention (and the evidence is clearly there that it was not) then there were ways to do it that were more respectful of the long-term supporters of this game.
Perhaps you could explain why you feel that someone who has done the time has issues with entitlement. Isn't credit given where credit is due? Sounds to me like you are more concerned with discrediting those who have done the time. Perhaps you are the one with the entitlement issue. More than anything, like others have said, this reeks of a common theme in society today - instead of earning what you have/want you can just pay for that status if you have the money.
Since I am already done with this topic. I'll simply reference you to read everything I posted and then allow you to realize that the argument you are supporting would support a double standard for a lifetime subscription. Either all Lifetime subscriptions reap all the the same rewards or there are no rewards at all. If you shortchange some people who forked out the same level of money like a person like I did during the original year of release by restricting certain perks associated with the lifetime subscription now, you'll just alienate and upset your newest group of supporters. So if you somehow feel that is the better way to handle something like this then you are putting yourself first and the rest of the player base second. I see this for what it is, I'm not upset by it and frankly neither should anyone else who is or has been a lifetime subscriber. You're basically saying yeah sure I'm no longer "unique" for buying my LTS. Well guess what? You are not unique because plenty of people also bought a LTS.
Case in point, accept it or keep trying to advocate a double standard. You're only proving my entitlement argument valid the more you try to claim that certain things should be excluded.
The only middle ground is that all accounts are credited from the time they originally played this game for the first time and then each day they were logged in. I wonder how many people who would lose out of a large number of days would feel if that happened then? How many people would advocate for the loss of credited time to their "veteran" rewards? Because that's what this argument about "veteran" status would be, "Oh sure, you can have this and that for spending the same money we did, but we'll be damned if you can have this." It's a title people, it's not something that gives a game breaking status. It's trivial to even complain about it, it's just another thing that people want to nitpick about that has nothing to do with the actual growth and development of this game when it comes to things like content or improvement. The more it gets argued about, the more the idea of "entitlement" comes to mind.
Comments
Ah that explains.
Like corruption. With money someone can buy his/her position.
Hmm
Actually, even without this new LTS perk someone could be called veteran if they had not played for 1000 days. All they needed was to have paid for 1000 days.
It was a joke haha.
A ref. to the 'ole, "A sucker is born every minute.." and so forth. :P
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
Nicely said, solomace.
At this point, I don't think him, Cryptic or PWE has enough respect for their customers to even bother.
Their actions speak loud and clear as to what they think of their 1000-day vets.
Branflakes has been following this thread - you might wanna post there
Thank you.
While nice to have, these things are all trivialities when it comes to a 299.00 U.S.D. Investment on our part, this particular bone they are throwing out concerning the Lifetime Subscription is a very good thing to future people who would want to consider putting that much money into the game all at once. I myself am very happy to see that potential future Lifetime subscribers can have the chance to gain something that would make them feel the investment is worth doing. Both sides of this argument about people getting something without having to wait or some such need to stop complaining. The only difference between you and a person who payed 15 U.S.D. a month for the same time you played is that technically, they have given more money on a commitment than you have. Just because you payed the money all up front doesn't make you any more special than the person who payed 15 U.S.D. a month for almost three straight years.
If you have issues with this deal for a Lifetime Subscription, then that's your own particular problem, I myself find this deal to be very acceptable to me and like I said before, I have been a Lifetime Subscriber for a long time. The people who feel this is unfair have major entitlement issues. Right now, if anyone is getting shafted by this deal, is the 15 U.S.D. a month players who have not been paying for three straight years. If you want to complain about this deal, do it on behalf of them.
Sincerely,
Keldi Kias
Please stop generalizing - it's becoming as tiresome as this whole debate. Perhaps there's just some people out there that hold others accountable to higher standards than you do.
We can at least agree on this - IMO, all the monthly subscribers should have been upgraded to LTS as a courtesy after they'd subscribed for a certain period of time.
If you are going to take one single sentence and somehow try to paint that as my argument then please don't bother to snip it out and leave the comment to yourself. I illustrated a point regarding the nature of this particular program and you have twisted one sentence to turn it into something else. It was not a generalization, it was a statement about the people who have a problem with this particular deal about the incentive it brings for future Lifetime subscribers, that they DO in fact have major entitlement issues. Please read the entire post before you judge what is being said.
Which is largely connected to the outrage I think.
Some people that have been with this game since the beginning feel that the title 'veteran' has some meaning - and perhaps they've been vocal supporters, perhaps they've worked within the game to foster communities. Perhaps they just like to feel that they've done their part (financially or otherwise) in supporting something they enjoy for all this time.
The way Cryptic has sloppily pushed out this new LTS hasn't taken them into any kind of consideration - buying an LTS now buys you the 'veteran' title - it's completely meaningless.
I read your entire post. And my comment still stands - you made a gross generalization that simply wasn't true. That doesn't invalidate some of the other things you said, but neither does it lend any weight to them either.
If people are going to get outraged by something like that, then there is a totally different problem. If all of the work you have done financially or otherwise to support this game is something you fell you "need" to be recognized for, then the picture you are painting for yourself is not one of a person who supports this game because you like it and want to see it improved. The picture you are painting is, "Hey I did more than the next guy and I should feel special for it". Now, I hate to say it since I have already stated it once, but that IS an entitlement issue. If you feel like you have to be singled out and recognized for doing more of something than someone else, then you are looking at it like it's some kind of competition, which is understandable but pointless. This is a game, but this particular deal has nothing to do with playing the game, it's about giving a perk that feels like it's worth purchasing a Lifetime Subscription for in the first place. So many people in this thread have tried to make this into something else when the facts are plain as day. If this upsets you so much, it's not because of what has been done. It's because YOU value yourself more than any other player who supports this game. This is a very smart thing to do and it can only help the game as a whole, those of you who somehow feel that you are being cheated for having been a Lifetime Subscriber for almost three years need to relax. All players in some form or another even if they are a F2P account are supporting this game and helping to keep it alive so the rest of us can continue to enjoy playing the game we invested in. If other people want to enjoy perks like this from a Lifetime subscription then we should be wholly endorsing it, not tearing down other people. If you do support this game then feel bad for the people who are getting shafted by this, which are the 15 U.S.D. a month players who don't get to benefit from this who have been paying for less than 3 years. They are the only ones right now technically who are getting shafted by this since they are stuck having to get all the rewards the "hard" way.
The middle ground, the way they could've done something like this without the black-and-white elitists-versus-gimmes battle that erupted, alternatively to keeping just one or two things in reserve, would've been to have the LTS do an instant recount of your veteran days the moment you bought it. Meaning your number of days would be however many days have passed since your account was created, whether those days had you subscribing or not, whether you went F2P or not, or whether you plainly never paid to play, and that would of course include the free month that came with the box. A lot of people would've skipped ahead, a lot of people would've skipped right to 998 days, and the vets would've been okay with it cause it proves these guys were at least there. (Some of you F2P 'vets', you weren't there man! You didn't see the things we saw! People suffocating in sector space, starships crashing down into ground maps, it was awful man! People were dropping like flies! I know guys who lost like half their fleet!)
Again, pointless hindsight, but you never know... someone at Cryptic might read it and it might save the internet from another category 5 ****storm if they remember next time something like this comes up with, say, Neverwinter.
Also, it's not easy reading green, so I didn't.
*sigh* It was not a gross generalization and if you had actually read the implications of the comment to begin with, granted it's my own fault for not putting it into obvious context since you would rather nitpick about it as a standalone sentence. The comment reflects the entire post about the people who are day one Lifetime Subscribers think it is somehow "unfair" to all of them. Which you would have known if you weren't so determined to make the comment into something else.
I think very few people are actually questioning the amount of money spent. This is about the time spent in-game. While it's true that some LTS players don't actually play the game like vets, it's the people who have played the game constantly and dedicated a lot of time and effort that feel marginalised by the sudden sense that new players with an LTS can pretend to be vets like them.
The vet reward change is great for anyone who didn't buy an LTS the first year it was offered. But for those who bought in early, especially those who were close to having all rewards anyway, the change did very little for them. That is the complaint people are bringing up, and it's a legitimate one, so selling the argument as trivial and asking them to stop is simply not fair.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
^ /10char...........
Dec '07 Account
I EARNED 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! New LTS=Death to Vet.System: 10/10/12 Never Forget
Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
Well, I only just read through your last post which goes even further to make a lot of assumptions about me - rather than prolong this I'll simply restate that I hold people to a higher standard than it seems you do. I expect a lot from people, both in business and in my personal life - and I give a great deal in return.
My issues with Cryptic reside more with the manner in which this was handled than specifically with what was done. If this was always their intention (and the evidence is clearly there that it was not) then there were ways to do it that were more respectful of the long-term supporters of this game.
It is 100% trivial, and I'll explain why. For all of us who have been Lifetime Subscribers since the game came out, we have had the ability to see absolutely everything that has been in place in this game, we have put forth our two cents worth of input. We have helped to develop other players. We have done all these various things. The reason why this argument is 100% trivial is because the ones getting into an uproar somehow feel that their money is now considered worthless because other people who now fork out the money for a Lifetime Subscription will get the EXACT same perks. Let's not even acknowledge how many of those people have put forth more money on a consistent basis either through a monthly subscription or putting money into the cash store on a monthly basis. Let's not take into consideration how other people could have easily spent twice as much as some of these first day Lifetime Subscribers. The argument alone regardless of intent puts entitlement first. These new people who pick up the Lifetime Subscription are not getting anything more than those of us who have been here for almost three years.
They are simply being caught up to us. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with this, in fact if they didn't get caught up to us I would be very upset by that because time frame and length of your subscription do not show any more loyalty to a game. If you keep playing the game regardless of subscription status then you are clearly loyal to the game. A lifetime Subscription is merely a statement saying, "I support this game to the degree that I am willing to spend this money to help keep it running as long as possible." Which is great, but what about the day one people who have payed on a month to month basis for that same amount of time? They too have made that same statement and they have done it making a much stronger commitment by continuing to spend that money month to month. We as a lifetime Subscriber after having dropped 299.00 U.S.D. don't have any more obligations, we get full access to everything without ever NEEDING to spend another dime to enjoy it. Now you tell me where all of us who have been Lifetime Subscribers have any right at all whatsoever since we have no more obligations financially have any right to ridicule a system that will give the exact same rewards we have had to someone else who just fronted the money to do so? And please do not bring up the discounted sale for 199.00 U.S.D. yes, I get the reasoning behind that argument in regards to that question but it's not required.
The argument is 100% pointless from the fact that ALL lifetime subscribers will all be enjoying all of the same perks, which frankly it should be that way anyway. Too many people have taken this "veteran" title type stuff way too personally and frankly it's gotten well beyond annoying concerning the Lifetime Subscribers like us, not that it needs to be said but the veteran rewards are hardly worth complaining about in the large scheme of things. Almost all of it is completely cosmetic to begin with, uniforms/titles/ship skin coloring. About the only things that provide any kind of real established long term things are the things like the Duty Officer mission for an extra one thousand dilithium ore refining/The android bridge officer/The new ship. Wow, a whopping three things and only one of them has any direct application outside of personal benefit.........Really "veteran" subscribers? Is this what you want to be remembered complaining about? I'm a veteran subscriber and I see absolutely nothing wrong with this at all what so ever. I must be one of the few who actually sees this for what it is.
Regardless, I have said my peace it's not going to change the opinions of those who somehow feel they have been screwed when in fact they haven't. Safe explorations everyone.
Sincerely,
Keldi Kias
Okay, I understand why Cryptic wants to do this, but why include the veteran titles?
Personally, I do not use the veteran titles, but I know some people do and it seems kind of ridiculous to allow someone to acquire the titles just because they bought a lifetime subscription yesterday.
If you do not see the obvious level of "entitlement" in that series of words you posted then all you have done is prove exactly what I was talking about. And I'll simply leave you with that to ponder on, I am done with this topic.
That is why I believe the least Cryptic could do is to look at in-game and forum titles and make them meaningful.
The Career Officer title is fine, but the Veteran title should have to be earned, either by time served (length of subscription) and/or by some sort of cumulative Accolade point system, which is a better tracker of time spent in all aspects of gameplay.
The rest of the perks (unlocks, in-game items, ships) I agree should be at time of purchase (LTS) and no waiting.
I think any paying customer is entitled to respect - particularly a long-term, loyal one. But since we don't see eye-to-eye on this then there's no point in continuing the discussion - we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Perhaps you could explain why you feel that someone who has done the time has issues with entitlement. Isn't credit given where credit is due? Sounds to me like you are more concerned with discrediting those who have done the time. Perhaps you are the one with the entitlement issue. More than anything, like others have said, this reeks of a common theme in society today - instead of earning what you have/want you can just pay for that status if you have the money.
I wholly agree.
That is why I believe the least Cryptic could do is to look at in-game and forum titles and make them meaningful.
The Career Officer title is fine, but the Veteran title should have to be earned, either by time served (length of subscription) and/or by some sort of cumulative Accolade point system, which is a better tracker of time spent in all aspects of gameplay.
PS. In reply to Logical Spock in another thread he started that was amalgamated into this one....
Since I am already done with this topic. I'll simply reference you to read everything I posted and then allow you to realize that the argument you are supporting would support a double standard for a lifetime subscription. Either all Lifetime subscriptions reap all the the same rewards or there are no rewards at all. If you shortchange some people who forked out the same level of money like a person like I did during the original year of release by restricting certain perks associated with the lifetime subscription now, you'll just alienate and upset your newest group of supporters. So if you somehow feel that is the better way to handle something like this then you are putting yourself first and the rest of the player base second. I see this for what it is, I'm not upset by it and frankly neither should anyone else who is or has been a lifetime subscriber. You're basically saying yeah sure I'm no longer "unique" for buying my LTS. Well guess what? You are not unique because plenty of people also bought a LTS.
Case in point, accept it or keep trying to advocate a double standard. You're only proving my entitlement argument valid the more you try to claim that certain things should be excluded.
The only middle ground is that all accounts are credited from the time they originally played this game for the first time and then each day they were logged in. I wonder how many people who would lose out of a large number of days would feel if that happened then? How many people would advocate for the loss of credited time to their "veteran" rewards? Because that's what this argument about "veteran" status would be, "Oh sure, you can have this and that for spending the same money we did, but we'll be damned if you can have this." It's a title people, it's not something that gives a game breaking status. It's trivial to even complain about it, it's just another thing that people want to nitpick about that has nothing to do with the actual growth and development of this game when it comes to things like content or improvement. The more it gets argued about, the more the idea of "entitlement" comes to mind.