I don't understand why nobody at Cryptics sees that all this stuff will make any future attempts at a somewhat balanced pvp system nearly impossible.
If they had gone with disabling all these things in PVP (like Champions does, if i heard that right), they could have avoided tons of issues while losing almost no revenue because the PVP community is so small (or so they tell us).
I think they know full well how it will ruin PVP. But, I also at this point feel that is exactly what they need as an excuse to get rid of PVP.
Notice, 2+years of promises to do something about PVP and nothing. :rolleyes:
I *might* like it if there was a decent chance of winning a good ship.
same, I HATE the gambling nature here, you could spend hundreds of dollars, and boxes and keys trying to get one, and still never get one
these items should be in the c-store, plain and simple, I want them, I'd pay money to get them in the c-store, but I can't blow my whole wad and blow out my check account trying to unlock boxes in the *hope* I get one, I'd spend money if I was guaranteed I'd get one.....
As with the past Lock Boxes, we'll be keeping one thread where you can leave your comments, feedback, and ideas. This allows the dev team to watch one thread about the subject where we can read and consider your feedback.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Please consider this:
I'd spend money to get these ships, if I was guaranteed to get them.
I cannot however spend money *trying* to get a ship that may never happen. The gambling nature is a bad thing. If I knew I could get the ship, I'd spend money on it. But knowing that I have only a slim chance to get one, I can't spend money on it, I could end up emptying out my entire checking account, opening hundreds of boxes, and still never get one. So I have no choice but to not even try.
However, I would happily give you guys my money if that returned in me getting the ship for sure, i.e, the C-store.
All of these items should be in the C-store. Lock Boxes are not the future, are you going to abandon the C-store? The whole idea of the c-store was to have a place where we could buy things like this, and now you aren't even using it anymore. Please, put these items on the C-store.
Federation players will finally be able to get their hands on the Isometric Charge console, while members of the KDF can turn the tides of battle with an Antimatter Spread console
JUST NO CRYPTIC!
JUST NO
CRYPTIC IF YOU ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO CONSITANTLY RUIN PVP PLEASE JUST STOP ADDING ANYTHING TO IT!
Seriously if your not gonna balance anything, DOnt allow it in pvp!
Balance it or disable it in pvp
are u tryong to drive away an entire portion of ur playerbase
WHy does pvp Suck?
BECAUSE YOU DONT BALANCE ANYTHING
Cryptic ur sick of reading these posts right!
MAYBE YOU SHOULD STOP ADDING STUFF TO PVP!
Dont let any new p2w into pvp and these treads might even stop compleatly!
same, I HATE the gambling nature here, you could spend hundreds of dollars, and boxes and keys trying to get one, and still never get one
... Just buy them from the Exchange?
Seriously, you can get a Recluse for about 60 million. You can make that in a month just by running science experiments and selling the particle traces.
Trade your dilithium for Zen and buy keys to sell on the exchange. You need about 40 keys to make enough EC to buy a ship. It's entirely possible to earn enough exchangeable currency from moderate gameplay to get these ships in a month.
There's no way your Zen is still there, it would have been gobbled up already - my guess is there's a bug in the update. Try of usualy log out and back in trick to see if that works, otherwise put in a help ticket - which will inevitable take forever to resolve.
Ya know.. when I first read the topic I was kinda bumed that the Wells was going to be a lock box ship. But I guess I can live with that...then I read:
and outfitted with an impressive console ability called the ?Tipler Cylinder? which allows the ship to rewind time using a localized temporal anomaly.
And got even less hope.. And then I saw..
These powerful Mirror Universe Temporal vessels, also reminiscent of the design of 29th Century Federation and KDF starships, have a decidedly more tactical focus than their Temporal Science Vessel cousins, and also come equipped with another unique console ability known as the ?Manheim Device? which can create quantum duplicates of your ship from its near-future and near-past. Equipping both this and the Tipler Cylinder on a single ship will also unlock additional effects when activated, and they can be fitted on any temporal vessel.
and I started to feel even worse.. and then I read..
Federation players will finally be able to get their hands on the Isometric Charge console, while members of the KDF can turn the tides of battle with an Antimatter Spread console.
And I started to linger on the edge of depression..and then they mentioned...
We?re happy to say that alongside the Temporal Lock Box, we?ll be introducing a new Temporal Set that will be obtainable from the Lobi Crystal Store. This set includes a Chroniton Dual Beam Bank, a Temporal Disruption Device (a torpedo-type weapon), and Universal Console: Tachyokinetic Converter. These items, when combined, will give captains a passive boost to their Chroniton projectiles as well as allowing you to activate an AOE time-slowing bubble around your ship that will slow down nearby enemies? Flight Speed, Turning Speed and Recharge Timers. If equipped on a Temporal vessel, this ability also has an beneficial effect on the ship that activates it, increasing their maneuverability and reducing their recharge times.
So pardon me while I leap into depression over what ever scraps of fun was left in PVP..because I don't think anything will save us from the fun we used to have before the Cryptic store first introduced the "Pay to Win" Consoles and then later most were made Universal consoles.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I guess this is cryptics way to boost cruisers and sci vessels again. With all the turn/speed debuffs goes the advantage escorts currently have.
And those wrongly chosen cros-faction consoles....
The AMS gives all raptors/battle cruisers their own version of a battle cloak.
And oh dear, oh dear, if the iso charge can hit cloaked ships (don't know if it does) it means the end of bops (and maybe even the entire klingon empire)
I am starting to think Cryptic hates escorts. They are always coming out with new something else, but never escorts. Oh and the mini carrier doesn't count in my book as an escort.
Oh to stay on topic as well. If the ship comes in a lock box I well never own it. Well unless someone give me one.
As with the past Lock Boxes, we'll be keeping one thread where you can leave your comments, feedback, and ideas. This allows the dev team to watch one thread about the subject where we can read and consider your feedback.
Cheers,
Brandon =/\=
Well consider this then... I HATE the LOCK BOX SCAM and do not think it is an ethical business practice.
As for everyone else, just remember one thing please: if we as consumers refuse to pay for product delivered to us in this fashion, then they may have no choice but to offer an alternative method of delivering the product.
Would it not be better to simply get exactly what you paid for when you make a choice to purchase something rather than purchasing a chance at it? Also, does it not bother those who do partake in this un-ethical business practice that Cryptic/PWE does not disclose the odds? Even the lottery here in the States tells you the odds? Think about it for a second folks.
I guess this is cryptics way to boost cruisers and sci vessels again. With all the turn/speed debuffs goes the advantage escorts currently have.
And those wrongly chosen cros-faction consoles....
The AMS gives all raptors/battle cruisers their own version of a battle cloak.
And oh dear, oh dear, if the iso charge can hit cloaked ships (don't know if it does) it means the end of bops (and maybe even the entire klingon empire)
End of PVP as we know it.
Let the dawn of UBER console wars begin and may the poorest man loose!
Federation players will finally be able to get their hands on the Isometric Charge console, while members of the KDF can turn the tides of battle with an Antimatter Spread console
JUST NO CRYPTIC!
JUST NO
CRYPTIC IF YOU ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO CONSITANTLY RUIN PVP PLEASE JUST STOP ADDING ANYTHING TO IT!
Seriously if your not gonna balance anything, DOnt allow it in pvp!
Balance it or disable it in pvp
are u tryong to drive away an entire portion of ur playerbase
WHy does pvp Suck?
BECAUSE YOU DONT BALANCE ANYTHING
Cryptic ur sick of reading these posts right!
MAYBE YOU SHOULD STOP ADDING STUFF TO PVP!
Dont let any new p2w into pvp and these treads might even stop compleatly!
LEARN TO BALANCE
There is no point in buying lockbox stuff if it's not allowed in pvp.
At this point Cryptic has to make a hail-mary pass to get PvP viable again.
But for me, the best part of this new lockbox system is how they flushed Star Trek's Temporal Prime Directive down the toilet. :rolleyes:
The best part for me is, how there was a thread last week about un-acceptable cross faction consoles, and LO! we have those exact consoles cross factioned this week. Way to listen cryptic! :mad:
I would like to see lockbox drop rare enough that the box itself is worth picking up and listing in the exchange. That way every captain in the game would be happy to get a box drop, even if they never open one using a key! For those who want to open them they would buy/farm boxes for their own needs.
The Ferengi box drop rate was horribly over-common to the point it was a huge nuisance during combat. The Tholian box drop rate was lowered but still way to common, as people would just pick up and destroy them by the stack. It would be nice if future drop rates were lowered even more. Yes, they would be expensive the first week but after that prices would level out and occasionally spike during C-Store discount events
Path to 2409: Martok made the definitive statement of the Klingon Empire's view of the Romulan Star Empire in 2388. "
The Klingons will offer no treaty, no aid, and no hand that is not holding a blade"
ok. ok ok ok. let me try to sort through all this...
Wells, Korath, Mobius, and Krenn, all time ships from the future, mirror or otherwise.
problem 1. by going down this path story wise, you are re telling the most hated story lines found in star trek. its convoluted with TRIBBLE pull after TRIBBLE pull that doesnt need to make any sense and are always resolved with the most bs techno babel found in all of trek.
problem 2. the temporal agents from the 29th century would prevent ALL of this temporal lock box stuff from happening, thats their job. they would tirelessly tamper with the past until this chain of events would not occur. the star trek canon has a built in safe guard against unchecked temporal fan fiction level storyline like this, if only they could beam into cryptic head quarters and hand you a cease and desist notice.
problem 3. those time shuttles would quite literally be tier 5 ships, being from the 29th century. voyager was very nearly destroyed by one easily. these full sized time ships? each one of them would be impervious to anything from the 25th century, they would be unharmable, and could 1 shot anything. 1 of those ships could solo the 25th century borg collective, and the dominion, at the same time. there is a 4 century difference in tech levels, its indefensible that these are in game at all. partly because of what i mentioned in problem 2, and partly because there is no possible way to suspend your disbelief at what im seeing, that it could ever happen in the canon. its indecency, i know it when i see it.
mirror sci ships eh? we know the drill regarding the fed ships. why do i have the sneaking suspicion that the mirror rapter is going to be a sci ship with COM, LTC, and ENS sci stations? and 4 sci consoles with 2 tac consoles, but all other stats the same? calling it now. its just as likely that the mirror qin is entirely unchanged stat wise, and just has the skin though.
Isometric Charge for feds? oh boy, i cant wait for every fed to spam this in pvp, thats gunna be great oh but thats nothing compared to the other console, Antimatter Spread for kdf. oh yes. yes, thats exactly what this game needed, twice the ams or more. just wonderful.
Chroniton Dual Beam Bank? what? what energy type is this? of is a kinetic weapon that fires like an energy weapon?
Polarized Disruptors. ok, this has officially gotten out of hand, with these hybrid weapons. there will soon be more hybrid energy types then there are normal energy types. did this really need to be introduced so soon? the tholians apparently used the phased tets, who uses these? what connection does this have to anything?
this future tech stuff. the temperal agents would prevent this from happening in universe cryptic, all of it. why would you do this? this is the worst path you have gone down to date, i really feel bad for all of you.
just for a matter of interest if there were ships from far in the future directly linked to time travel abilities at will, i mean not technology developed by the klingons or federation without undestanding the risks, it would be unacceptable for those in the future to allow those in the past to abuse the timeline in anyway shape or form to gain an advantage. they could go back in time confiscate these ships in both KDF and fed side as well as any weapons and abilties and then return them to their present.
Golden rule number 1 has been broken by introducing these ships to the game, the temperal prime directive has been broken and yet all it cost is the intergrity of the IP rights to do it.
Whatever happens, i am more interested in the recluse carrier then any timeship.
I blame all of the new staff for this. They probably were not asked to watch any star trek at all like the original staff was. That is why this is happening. FFS this is awful!
Thank God there are other games to play... but dangit that there are no other Trek games currently... if even after long we can call this a trek game. :mad:
Ok, I am a long time player and have tolerated this game a lot because it was the only trek game out there but this just makes us fans look like idiots. Time ships?!? And I'm certain I've read somewhere that these lockbox ships will not be a KDF/FED only ship and be a faction NOT in the war? Does this mean that Cryptic and PWE are going back on what they have told us earlier??? Usually not one for this but hey...just my 2 cents.
Join date: April 2010 ; Lifetime Sub since April 2010. Actual 1000 day vet.
"outfitted with an impressive console ability called the ?Tipler Cylinder? which allows the ship to rewind time using a localized temporal anomaly. "
seriously.... wtf cryptic?
"another unique console ability known as the ?Manheim Device? which can create quantum duplicates of your ship from its near-future and near-past."
yay.... more spam -rolls eyes-
why cryptic... just why?
this also sounds like a lot of fun
This set includes a Chroniton Dual Beam Bank, a Temporal Disruption Device (a torpedo-type weapon), and Universal Console: Tachyokinetic Converter. These items, when combined, will give captains a passive boost to their Chroniton projectiles as well as allowing you to activate an AOE time-slowing bubble around your ship that will slow down nearby enemies? Flight Speed, Turning Speed and Recharge Timers. If equipped on a Temporal vessel, this ability also has an beneficial effect on the ship that activates it, increasing their maneuverability and reducing their recharge time.
And the KDF are getting AMS now they can AMS you and then drain all your power. YAY!
While I am still suffereing from the initial shock of WTF from the released information currently of the Temporal Lock Boxes.
I will at least admit it is nice that there are so many ships being released in these lockboxes.
I count.. 5 From the Lockboxes alone.. And 4 For the Lobi Store.
So 9 new ships, 2 of which are Shuttles. Which is nice.
(I dislike that you can't claim Lockbox keys through in game means beyond Grinding Dilithium. Personally I really think that Lockbox Keys should be VERY RARE drops like the old Gold Lockboxes. But that's a discussion for another day.)
How ever, as has been stated, PVP is in a horrible state right now. Not only from it's lack of PVP ONLY content, but with no real way to police some of the new stuff that gets released that affects PVP In a negative way. And I suspect that the Temporal Lockbox Releases are going to be very negative for PVP where balances are concerned. I suppose I shall wait until the next tribble patch or two and try to see if I can't test out the new stuff before it goes live my self.
Other wise I think we're getting past time that who ever is at Cryptic that is supposed to be in charge of PVP now that Gozer has left (If anyone has been delegated that task) to find some way to make sure that new releases like these are not going to be negative to PVP while still being fun in both PVE and PVP.
PS: I think that the Mirror Qin Raptor will be Advanced Escort styled in BO set up and Consoles.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Comments
I think they know full well how it will ruin PVP. But, I also at this point feel that is exactly what they need as an excuse to get rid of PVP.
Notice, 2+years of promises to do something about PVP and nothing. :rolleyes:
same, I HATE the gambling nature here, you could spend hundreds of dollars, and boxes and keys trying to get one, and still never get one
these items should be in the c-store, plain and simple, I want them, I'd pay money to get them in the c-store, but I can't blow my whole wad and blow out my check account trying to unlock boxes in the *hope* I get one, I'd spend money if I was guaranteed I'd get one.....
another fail since it is based on the lock box
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
yup and make em lots of cash in the meantime, WTG!
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Please consider this:
I'd spend money to get these ships, if I was guaranteed to get them.
I cannot however spend money *trying* to get a ship that may never happen. The gambling nature is a bad thing. If I knew I could get the ship, I'd spend money on it. But knowing that I have only a slim chance to get one, I can't spend money on it, I could end up emptying out my entire checking account, opening hundreds of boxes, and still never get one. So I have no choice but to not even try.
However, I would happily give you guys my money if that returned in me getting the ship for sure, i.e, the C-store.
All of these items should be in the C-store. Lock Boxes are not the future, are you going to abandon the C-store? The whole idea of the c-store was to have a place where we could buy things like this, and now you aren't even using it anymore. Please, put these items on the C-store.
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
R.I.P
next thing you tell me that the current pope is half gorn, how is the brew??
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
JUST NO CRYPTIC!
JUST NO
CRYPTIC IF YOU ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO CONSITANTLY RUIN PVP PLEASE JUST STOP ADDING ANYTHING TO IT!
Seriously if your not gonna balance anything, DOnt allow it in pvp!
Balance it or disable it in pvp
are u tryong to drive away an entire portion of ur playerbase
WHy does pvp Suck?
BECAUSE YOU DONT BALANCE ANYTHING
Cryptic ur sick of reading these posts right!
MAYBE YOU SHOULD STOP ADDING STUFF TO PVP!
Dont let any new p2w into pvp and these treads might even stop compleatly!
LEARN TO BALANCE
... Just buy them from the Exchange?
Seriously, you can get a Recluse for about 60 million. You can make that in a month just by running science experiments and selling the particle traces.
Trade your dilithium for Zen and buy keys to sell on the exchange. You need about 40 keys to make enough EC to buy a ship. It's entirely possible to earn enough exchangeable currency from moderate gameplay to get these ships in a month.
And got even less hope.. And then I saw..
and I started to feel even worse.. and then I read..
And I started to linger on the edge of depression..and then they mentioned...
So pardon me while I leap into depression over what ever scraps of fun was left in PVP..because I don't think anything will save us from the fun we used to have before the Cryptic store first introduced the "Pay to Win" Consoles and then later most were made Universal consoles.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
And those wrongly chosen cros-faction consoles....
The AMS gives all raptors/battle cruisers their own version of a battle cloak.
And oh dear, oh dear, if the iso charge can hit cloaked ships (don't know if it does) it means the end of bops (and maybe even the entire klingon empire)
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
I am starting to think Cryptic hates escorts. They are always coming out with new something else, but never escorts. Oh and the mini carrier doesn't count in my book as an escort.
Oh to stay on topic as well. If the ship comes in a lock box I well never own it. Well unless someone give me one.
Well consider this then... I HATE the LOCK BOX SCAM and do not think it is an ethical business practice.
As for everyone else, just remember one thing please: if we as consumers refuse to pay for product delivered to us in this fashion, then they may have no choice but to offer an alternative method of delivering the product.
Would it not be better to simply get exactly what you paid for when you make a choice to purchase something rather than purchasing a chance at it? Also, does it not bother those who do partake in this un-ethical business practice that Cryptic/PWE does not disclose the odds? Even the lottery here in the States tells you the odds? Think about it for a second folks.
End of PVP as we know it.
Let the dawn of UBER console wars begin and may the poorest man loose!
But for me, the best part of this new lockbox system is how they flushed Star Trek's Temporal Prime Directive down the toilet. :rolleyes:
There is no point in buying lockbox stuff if it's not allowed in pvp.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
The best part for me is, how there was a thread last week about un-acceptable cross faction consoles, and LO! we have those exact consoles cross factioned this week. Way to listen cryptic! :mad:
The Ferengi box drop rate was horribly over-common to the point it was a huge nuisance during combat. The Tholian box drop rate was lowered but still way to common, as people would just pick up and destroy them by the stack. It would be nice if future drop rates were lowered even more. Yes, they would be expensive the first week but after that prices would level out and occasionally spike during C-Store discount events
Path to 2409: Martok made the definitive statement of the Klingon Empire's view of the Romulan Star Empire in 2388. "
The Klingons will offer no treaty, no aid, and no hand that is not holding a blade"
Wells, Korath, Mobius, and Krenn, all time ships from the future, mirror or otherwise.
problem 1. by going down this path story wise, you are re telling the most hated story lines found in star trek. its convoluted with TRIBBLE pull after TRIBBLE pull that doesnt need to make any sense and are always resolved with the most bs techno babel found in all of trek.
problem 2. the temporal agents from the 29th century would prevent ALL of this temporal lock box stuff from happening, thats their job. they would tirelessly tamper with the past until this chain of events would not occur. the star trek canon has a built in safe guard against unchecked temporal fan fiction level storyline like this, if only they could beam into cryptic head quarters and hand you a cease and desist notice.
problem 3. those time shuttles would quite literally be tier 5 ships, being from the 29th century. voyager was very nearly destroyed by one easily. these full sized time ships? each one of them would be impervious to anything from the 25th century, they would be unharmable, and could 1 shot anything. 1 of those ships could solo the 25th century borg collective, and the dominion, at the same time. there is a 4 century difference in tech levels, its indefensible that these are in game at all. partly because of what i mentioned in problem 2, and partly because there is no possible way to suspend your disbelief at what im seeing, that it could ever happen in the canon. its indecency, i know it when i see it.
mirror sci ships eh? we know the drill regarding the fed ships. why do i have the sneaking suspicion that the mirror rapter is going to be a sci ship with COM, LTC, and ENS sci stations? and 4 sci consoles with 2 tac consoles, but all other stats the same? calling it now. its just as likely that the mirror qin is entirely unchanged stat wise, and just has the skin though.
Isometric Charge for feds? oh boy, i cant wait for every fed to spam this in pvp, thats gunna be great oh but thats nothing compared to the other console, Antimatter Spread for kdf. oh yes. yes, thats exactly what this game needed, twice the ams or more. just wonderful.
Chroniton Dual Beam Bank? what? what energy type is this? of is a kinetic weapon that fires like an energy weapon?
Polarized Disruptors. ok, this has officially gotten out of hand, with these hybrid weapons. there will soon be more hybrid energy types then there are normal energy types. did this really need to be introduced so soon? the tholians apparently used the phased tets, who uses these? what connection does this have to anything?
this future tech stuff. the temperal agents would prevent this from happening in universe cryptic, all of it. why would you do this? this is the worst path you have gone down to date, i really feel bad for all of you.
Golden rule number 1 has been broken by introducing these ships to the game, the temperal prime directive has been broken and yet all it cost is the intergrity of the IP rights to do it.
Whatever happens, i am more interested in the recluse carrier then any timeship.
Thank God there are other games to play... but dangit that there are no other Trek games currently... if even after long we can call this a trek game. :mad:
seriously.... wtf cryptic?
"another unique console ability known as the ?Manheim Device? which can create quantum duplicates of your ship from its near-future and near-past."
yay.... more spam -rolls eyes-
why cryptic... just why?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Proud Member of: Fubar Inc.
R.I.P
this also sounds like a lot of fun
This set includes a Chroniton Dual Beam Bank, a Temporal Disruption Device (a torpedo-type weapon), and Universal Console: Tachyokinetic Converter. These items, when combined, will give captains a passive boost to their Chroniton projectiles as well as allowing you to activate an AOE time-slowing bubble around your ship that will slow down nearby enemies? Flight Speed, Turning Speed and Recharge Timers. If equipped on a Temporal vessel, this ability also has an beneficial effect on the ship that activates it, increasing their maneuverability and reducing their recharge time.
And the KDF are getting AMS now they can AMS you and then drain all your power. YAY!
Quote of the week:
Quite well! Working on an Imperial Stout at the moment.
R.I.P
I will at least admit it is nice that there are so many ships being released in these lockboxes.
I count.. 5 From the Lockboxes alone.. And 4 For the Lobi Store.
So 9 new ships, 2 of which are Shuttles. Which is nice.
(I dislike that you can't claim Lockbox keys through in game means beyond Grinding Dilithium. Personally I really think that Lockbox Keys should be VERY RARE drops like the old Gold Lockboxes. But that's a discussion for another day.)
How ever, as has been stated, PVP is in a horrible state right now. Not only from it's lack of PVP ONLY content, but with no real way to police some of the new stuff that gets released that affects PVP In a negative way. And I suspect that the Temporal Lockbox Releases are going to be very negative for PVP where balances are concerned. I suppose I shall wait until the next tribble patch or two and try to see if I can't test out the new stuff before it goes live my self.
Other wise I think we're getting past time that who ever is at Cryptic that is supposed to be in charge of PVP now that Gozer has left (If anyone has been delegated that task) to find some way to make sure that new releases like these are not going to be negative to PVP while still being fun in both PVE and PVP.
PS: I think that the Mirror Qin Raptor will be Advanced Escort styled in BO set up and Consoles.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku