I would also like to add my concerns with this feature. This has happend to me, and I dont even play but once per week. And when I do get on, I dont talk in open chat, or talk to anyone at all when i log in for an hour to play. The one time I tried to ask a question about ship slots I had a system message that I was "silenced"
Dear Cryptic today I was silenced for spam. having not spoken in zone chat ect I can only assume this resulted from my sending a fleet email. As a fleet leader this makes management rather difficult.
Under the system I can not.
Use zone chat.
Use fleet chat
Use officer chat.
Use private chat channels
Use team chat.
Use the PM system.
As I understand it the original idea of this auto muting function was to deal with gold spamming bots. A spam bot should not need to have fleet chat officer chat private channels team chat and the PM system blocked. This is the first fault.
Next I am a fleet leader. How exactly am I supposed to manage my fleet for the next 24 hours effectively when I have no chat? And no recourse except that maybe a GM might come along in 3/4 business days to address the issue. If your going to have a button that automatically mutes people there should be an expectation of doing something about unjustified mutes before they run out rather than days after the fact.
And finally fleet emails themselves. You should never be able to flag these as spam. And yes some newer players who don't understand the system (and in some cases English all that well) can mistake them for spam.
I am more than a little upset with this situation. So I hope this comes across as calm feedback and apologize if it fails to. But I find this situation a bit on the unacceptable side. When a system is punishing legitimate players and putting a serious dent in their ability to play the game with no recourse then its not performing its proper function.
Dear Cryptic today I was silenced for spam. having not spoken in zone chat ect I can only assume this resulted from my sending a fleet email. As a fleet leader this makes management rather difficult.
Under the system I can not.
Use zone chat.
Use fleet chat
Use officer chat.
Use private chat channels
Use team chat.
Use the PM system.
As I understand it the original idea of this auto muting function was to deal with gold spamming bots. A spam bot should not need to have fleet chat officer chat private channels team chat and the PM system blocked. This is the first fault.
Next I am a fleet leader. How exactly am I supposed to manage my fleet for the next 24 hours effectively when I have no chat? And no recourse except that maybe a GM might come along in 3/4 business days to address the issue. If your going to have a button that automatically mutes people there should be an expectation of doing something about unjustified mutes before they run out rather than days after the fact.
And finally fleet emails themselves. You should never be able to flag these as spam. And yes some newer players who don't understand the system (and in some cases English all that well) can mistake them for spam.
I am more than a little upset with this situation. So I hope this comes across as calm feedback and apologize if it fails to. But I find this situation a bit on the unacceptable side. When a system is punishing legitimate players and putting a serious dent in their ability to play the game with no recourse then its not performing its proper function.
Great feedback! I really hope that this does get addressed by the Devs sooner rather than later.
100% agree that silencing should not bar players from fleet and team chat.
I suspect that since the chat system functionality is shared across Cryptic's games, this will have to be a global update. Maybe the next major code merge would be a good opportunity to address this?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I know it's a dead horse, but I'd just like to comment (and I don't know where the last thread I saw went) that I was considering a lifetime account for my upcoming birthday, because I was so pleased with S7.
I got flagged as a spammer... for some reason. No idea why or how. And now, not only can't I communicate publically, I can't send a message to anyone on my team, my friends list, anything. I can't even tell fleetmates that I'm not available.
The decision to cleave to this rule/system is going to cost PWE several hundred dollars of my money, because now I'm committed to never spending a cent on the game until this system changes.
(And while I'm not exactly a f2p 'whale,' I HAVE rather frivolously spent a bunch of cash on all sorts of things, including an Atrox and Guramba I don't use)
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I got flagged as a spammer... for some reason. No idea why or how. And now, not only can't I communicate publically, I can't send a message to anyone on my team, my friends list, anything. I can't even tell fleetmates that I'm not available.
AFAIK, the 'silence' only lasts 24 hrs if that's any consolation whatsoever.
Thanks for the constructive feedback. I think this is an important issue and that honest, non-flaming feedback will get positive attention. Might not be as quick as we'd like, or resolved the way we'd like, but who knows?
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Huh. I didn't know hitting "report spam" everytime I see someone advertising their stupid website or their fleet silenced them for 24 hours.
Not that I feel bad about it, mind you. I get tired of seeing that TRIBBLE, and I'm not blocking whole channels or closing chat entirely to avoid it.
Now let's be fair, here.
"Spam" does not mean "any chat message you don't want to see". IMO, nobody should flag chat as spam without knowing what PWE defines as spam, or without actual direct knowledge of the Terms of Service.
"Ignores" should be something that anyone can use as they want to. Unfortunately, enough of these will also silence somebody and I don't think that's fair.
But my understanding is that it takes a lot more of these to silence somebody than the report spam function does.
I would strongly urge people to please not use the report as spam function unless the offending user is actually violating ToS.
This could include flooding zone chat with fleet recruiting messages every 60 seconds, as the offender is actively hindering other people from using the service. NOT just because it's a fleet recruiting message.
I'm pretty sure that advertising personal or third-party websites via chat definitely would constitute spam in the eyes of PWE.
Before anyone decides to use that function any way they like, though, remember that the next victim of chat intolerance could be yourself.
I won't argue with anyone who freely uses "ignore", though... that's what it's supposed to be for.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The current silencing system is current used as an attack against innocent victims. I quite often see people threatening to ignore people. I can only interpret that as the threat to abuse the silencing system. I have seen this regularly silence people that actually haven't said anything in any public channels.
In other games the silence feature is a GM only tool as automated silencing systems are subject to abuse the way they are abused in this game.
Now that the mechanics of this system are clarified I will be writing tickets in relation to players threatening to ignore players. I can only interpret this as an attempt to abuse the silence function. Also, these players should spend less time threatening people and more time playing the game.
Another feature that should be added is that if you ignore someone you should not be able to message the person that you have ignored. I have had this feature abused. One player kept sending me offensive tells. I was going to ask him to stop but I was on his ignore list. The only option was to write a ticket. I have no doubt that the player had action taken against them but they shouldn't be able to do this in the first place.
I was very shocked a few months ago on Champions Online to learn that my Ignores could contribute to silencing someone for 24 hours, because I had naively assumed all I was doing was, you know, not listening to them.
Sometimes people have quite legitimate and fun conversations that I just don't feel like listening to, and one of my frustrations with this system is that I can't do that without punishing them.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I got silenced about an hour ago for trying to sell a rare Mag Regulator Mk XII in ESD zone chat. I submitted a ticket to be free to speak again, but that just "disappeared" when I tried to see the response to it. I'm not against the idea of chat silencing, considering I played WoW for years and endured lots of gold sellers in trade chat. They're obnoxious and should be dealt with.
That said, I don't see how saying "Selling [Antiproton Mag Regulator Mk XII]" six times in five minutes with a rapidly scrolling zone chat would be considered spam. Hopefully this will get resolved. I can't do anything involving in-game typing. I had to leave a status update for my character that says "I'm silenced. If I don't respond, that's why. I'll be able to type again on Thursday at 7p EST."
#1 A player shouldn't be automatically silenced just because others players put them on ignore. The player could be engaged in a conversation and have a difference of opinion that a few others don't agree with. Silencing someone just because they have an opinion is stupid.
#2 If a player is flagged as a spammer by several other players, a GM should be notified to take a look at the chat logs of the flagged player and make a determination of whether or not they should be punished. Players will be flagged as spammers just for having a difference of opinion and/or advertising something they want to trade once every couple minutes.
The whole idea of an automatic punishment is lazy on Cryptic's part and clearly being abused. Without the human element to make a determination mistakes are being made.
Side note: About a week ago the conversation in ESD zone chat was becoming inappropriate and an actual GM came and asked for the conversation to be changed yet there is 1 particular troll that has been starting political/religious arguments every single day for over a week and nothing is done about it. I've had this player on my ignore list for a while but still see other players respond to him/her by character name. A conversation of an adult nature is not allowed but players cursing each other out about gun control or other politically sensitive subjects goes on unabated? My only guess is someone use the "Report to GM" feature at that time.
I usually stand around in ESD because it has all I need (bank, exchange, vendors) to store/sell/get rid of all the stuff I get in STFs and such and lately it's really annoying with all the TRIBBLE being argued about. And the reason why I don't close my chat window is because I enjoy answering player questions about the game, if I know the answer. If I don't know I don't say anything.
Edit: How about this suggestion: Add a trade channel to the game that can be added/removed from your chat window.
That said, I don't see how saying "Selling [Antiproton Mag Regulator Mk XII]" six times in five minutes with a rapidly scrolling zone chat would be considered spam.
I disagree with you there. I think that is spam, considering the current environment.
Why? You said it yourself: "rapidly scrolling zone chat". One channel can't really sustain more than one multi-player conversation at a time, but people do it all the time. Enough of that, and you can't follow any one conversation. If you're interrupting the dialogue once a minute or more, that's too much. If it looks like spam, people will treat it as such.
I wouldn't report it, probably, but I can see where others would have at least put the offender on ignore.
This is where the Community can help itself and learn to start a private channel when they want to have a long conversation and take that out of zone chat. People get annoyed when they get interrupted... so they should have their conversations in a way that makes it less likely that they will.
Zone chat should be used to connect with other players just long enough to team up or ask a quick question or agree on a channel to use. It shouldn't be used for extended personal conversations or for role-play. If we all followed that rule of thumb, then maybe the occasional chat ad every five minutes or so wouldn't be a big deal.
How about this suggestion: Add a trade channel to the game that can be added/removed from your chat window.
This is a good idea, but there's no reason to wait for Cryptic to do it. The Community started the DOFFJOBS and REDALERT channels and it can do the same for trading. If someone the Community trusts would be willing to start a trade channel and then advertise it here on the forums, it could catch on. Admittedly, those two channels got started because they were trying to solve a particular problem. Well, a trade channel would be trying to solve the problem of getting silenced when someone's offering a trade by putting those messages in a place where they won't interrupt conversations.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
You pretty much have to threaten to kill somebody, do something illegal, or something equally villainous to get a game ban.
What about harassment? I think that should be pretty near the top of the list. I used to get harassed by one specific individual in the game. I sent ticket upon ticket upon ticket about this guy, sometimes with his threats included in the ticket. Nothing has been done to my knowledge (and they won't let me know anyways regardless because of the TOS) but since then, I haven't had much of an issue but then again, he's probably been humbled by his experiences in the game and he's realizes he's not the "bad TRIBBLE" he thinks he is because he doesn't have his fleet (and maybe friends ) to support him, but yeah...
What about harassment? I think that should be pretty near the top of the list. I used to get harassed by one specific individual in the game. I sent ticket upon ticket upon ticket about this guy, sometimes with his threats included in the ticket. Nothing has been done to my knowledge (and they won't let me know anyways regardless because of the TOS) but since then, I haven't had much of an issue but then again, he's probably been humbled by his experiences in the game and he's realizes he's not the "bad TRIBBLE" he thinks he is because he doesn't have his fleet (and maybe friends ) to support him, but yeah...
I can't give you an official PWE answer. I am not they.
I think certain kinds of harassment would be against the ToS. I think your tickets would've gotten investigated eventually. I suspect that they would more likely punish a pattern of harassment than one single instance, depending on the circumstances.
But like you said, we won't ever know because PWE won't discuss specifics like that. Rightly so, I might add. But maybe the person backed off because they got an official warning?
I would suggest that people use the "Report to GM" option when they receive RL threats in chat. If they're just trash talking, I'd use ignore and be done with it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Zone chat should be used to connect with other players just long enough to team up or ask a quick question or agree on a channel to use. It shouldn't be used for extended personal conversations or for role-play. If we all followed that rule of thumb, then maybe the occasional chat ad every five minutes or so wouldn't be a big deal.
So you're saying that we shouldn't even socialize unless we join a channel dedicated to it? That's absurd. Players are going to socialize no matter what and personally I don't have a problem with it unless the conversation turns inappropriate or people start arguing about controversial subjects.
This is a good idea, but there's no reason to wait for Cryptic to do it. The Community started the DOFFJOBS and REDALERT channels and it can do the same for trading. If someone the Community trusts would be willing to start a trade channel and then advertise it here on the forums, it could catch on. Admittedly, those two channels got started because they were trying to solve a particular problem. Well, a trade channel would be trying to solve the problem of getting silenced when someone's offering a trade by putting those messages in a place where they won't interrupt conversations.
First of all I don't know how to join a chat channel and I'm sure a lot of new players don't either. If we had a default trade channel it would make things easier because if players had to create such a channel you would end up with multiple channels for the same thing and wouldn't be able to see everything players are trading unless you joined every channel.
Also, now would be a good time to consider adding an official trade channel to the game. With the new lock box out, ESD zone chat is full of people trading the new items coming from the boxes. In some cases players are even trying to scam others. Example: at least 1 player was trying to charge over 1 million energy credits for the new Mirror Patrol Escort. I bought 2 of them for my characters in the exchange for 200k each and that's about what they are going for. Also players trying to sell bound items - 1 player was trying to sell an Odyssey that I believe was the free version from an anniversary event and another player told them that once you take it out of the box it can't be traded. Granted the player may not have known it was bound because they didn't check first. The spamming has gotten bad now because of all the trading in the zone chat now.
Inside Q's Winter Wonderland it was bad at first during the event. Players kept trying to sell the winter Epohh tags in zone chat. Some players may not know some items are bound and can't be traded because they don't look first but some players were clearly trolling and kept advertising the items even after multiple players told them over and over they are bound.
So you're saying that we shouldn't even socialize unless we join a channel dedicated to it? That's absurd. Players are going to socialize no matter what and personally I don't have a problem with it unless the conversation turns inappropriate or people start arguing about controversial subjects.
No, I am saying that Zone chat is not the place for multiple, unrelated conversations. Especially not long ones that have nothing to do with playing the game. ...In my opinion, of course.
First of all I don't know how to join a chat channel and I'm sure a lot of new players don't either. If we had a default trade channel it would make things easier because if players had to create such a channel you would end up with multiple channels for the same thing and wouldn't be able to see everything players are trading unless you joined every channel.
This is a case where the Community can help itself (and each other) by teaching new players how to use chat.
And I'm not talking about opening up multiple trading channels. I'm talking about a Community-backed trade channel where the Community as a whole agrees to use it, just like DOFFJOBS was started by the Community, for the Community.
Sure, Cryptic could add a trade channel. Which would then join all of the other messages scrolling across everybody's chat window by default and people would have to learn to use the chat system to turn it off anyway.
I think a general Trade channel that people can choose to subscribe to is not a bad idea. Preferably one that a few large fleets decided to get behind using.
I'm not all that sure that multiple trading channels are such a bad idea either, as long as they're category specific. For example, different channels for trading commodities, BOFFs, DOFFs, Mk XII Purple Space Weapons with [Acc], etc. Let people subscribe to the channels they're interested in and ignore the rest.
Anyway, this is starting to get off topic. If someone wants to start another thread to suggest a trade channel be added to the game, that would be fine.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I don't see how saying "Selling [Antiproton Mag Regulator Mk XII]" six times in five minutes with a rapidly scrolling zone chat would be considered spam.
That's a repeated, unsolicited, mass distributed message sent electronically for commercial purposes. In what possible way is that not spam?
I think a general Trade channel that people can choose to subscribe to is not a bad idea.
A trade channel when an Exchange/Auction House/whatever already exists is a horrendous idea, and benefits only scammers at the expense of suckers. There is a reason many companies (Such as Blizzard and ArenaNet) explicitly refuse to become involved in transactions conducted this way, or act in any way that may be construed as supporting this practice.
The Exchange is accessible by the entire player base. For a seller, this allows them access to the most buyers possible. For a buyer, this allows them access to the most supply possible. Prices are strictly based on supply and demand. Assuming the Exchange is fully functional, only two situations can occur when a sale is arranged between two unknown parties:
1. The item is underpriced - the seller is the sucker for not using the Exchange to see the market price, and the buyer is scamming them.
2. The item is overpriced - the buyer is the sucker for not using the Exchange to see the market price, and the seller is scamming them.
If you intend to get the market price in the first place, then you would use the Exchange which would result in faster sales. If you are deliberately granting a discount or paying extra because of a preexisting relationship with the other party (friend or Fleet mate) then you wouldn't need to spam or use a Trade channel.
This applies to any existing market. If someone is bypassing convenience and greater access to customers, there will be a scammer and a sucker in the ensuing transaction.
I was silenced for 24 hours after saying just one thing, this happened a total of 3 times at completely different date and times.
I urge players to NEVER use the report spam feature as a matter of protest, the function is ethically questionable both in the use of, and the advocation of. This feature is so Cryptic can continue to get away with continued lack of staff and support.
If someone is in ESD and is Trolling the same message over and over, or useing overely racial, sexual, or political (like extremely aniti-whatever nationality or making fun of someone's religion I report it as spam. The person is just trying to grief prople or hijack the chat to see how many people he can offend or anger. Some games like BSGO have players that are chat mods with ban hammer rights and it works well. If someone is trolling hard or saying things that are offencive to others they get banned. They are not employees they are players that asked to be Mods and after an interview proccess were given a Ban hammer. Perhaps something like this would serve STO well. Theese mods work a 2-4 hour "shift" in thier Zone and make sure the chat is under control.
If someone is in ESD and is Trolling the same message over and over, or useing overely racial, sexual, or political (like extremely aniti-whatever nationality or making fun of someone's religion I report it as spam. The person is just trying to grief prople or hijack the chat to see how many people he can offend or anger. Some games like BSGO have players that are chat mods with ban hammer rights and it works well. If someone is trolling hard or saying things that are offencive to others they get banned. They are not employees they are players that asked to be Mods and after an interview proccess were given a Ban hammer. Perhaps something like this would serve STO well. Theese mods work a 2-4 hour "shift" in thier Zone and make sure the chat is under control.
Either that, or make dealing with reports of bogus chat bans more of a priority. If engendering a 24 hour bogus ban got you a 48 hour legit ban, it would happen a lot less often.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Although Cryptic has made it clear that they agree with you in regards to the function of the "Report Spam" button, I would remind you of the definition of Spamming in the Community Rules and Guidelines for all Perfect World games:
Spamming
You may not create posts which contain:
Excessive communications of the same phrase, similar phrases, or gibberish.
Numbering of a thread, IBTL, TLDR, etc.
Bumping threads.
Creation of First! posts.
Posting of off-topic comments, including but not limited to comments or discussions of a religious, or political nature.
Posts and/or private messages that, in any manner whether directly or indirectly, contain links to threads from other forums in the PWE network may be subject to an infraction. (Cross Linking)
Advertisements that have not been authorized by PWE.
Posting to an old thread which has not been posted to in 30 days or more.
Creating Duplicate Threads (A Duplicate Thread is defined as a thread which discusses the same topic as another thread, which has had a new post within the last 30 days.)
As this is an English-speaking community, all postings must be in English, so that they can be well received and properly monitored. Posting in other languages is not allowed, except in Forums designated specifically as non-English forums.
It all certainly meets that definition.
Former moderator of these forums. Lifetime sub since before launch. Been here since before public betas. Foundry author of "Franklin Drake Must Die".
Although Cryptic has made it clear that they agree with you in regards to the function of the "Report Spam" button, I would remind you of the definition of Spamming in the Community Rules and Guidelines for all Perfect World games:
It all certainly meets that definition.
The only thing I see in that list is posting "off topic" content ( and I am skim reading here ), and since zone chat has no rules on what is to be a topic, when or where, ( wouldn't that be silly? ) the relevancy to this guideline is null.
If someone is in ESD and is Trolling the same message over and over, or useing overely racial, sexual, or political (like extremely aniti-whatever nationality or making fun of someone's religion I report it as spam. The person is just trying to grief prople or hijack the chat to see how many people he can offend or anger. Some games like BSGO have players that are chat mods with ban hammer rights and it works well. If someone is trolling hard or saying things that are offencive to others they get banned. They are not employees they are players that asked to be Mods and after an interview proccess were given a Ban hammer. Perhaps something like this would serve STO well. Theese mods work a 2-4 hour "shift" in thier Zone and make sure the chat is under control.
That's a great point. I too play BSGO and have slowed down quite a bit in recent months due to the overwhelming number of glitches a bugs that needed to be addressed. The System in using players as Chat Mods works well. As with anything, you can have bad apples that do everything in there power to slip by and become mods just to abuse it. They don't normally last long as the player rally and mass complain. The problem with mass player controlled ban hammers is who do you complain about when the ban hammers slammed down on someone that didn't deserve it?
A player controlled ban function become completely pointless when players could simply Ignore. I don't truly like what someone is saying then I simply ignore them. From that point on how can they affect what i see in chat in any way shape or form?
STO needs player based Chat mods that are screened through an interview process just like the forum mods. And the only thing that should happen if players flag another player for spam is that players name becomes a stand out color to the chat mod so they take more notice of what they are saying. To help the Chat filter(mod) Filter out the filth.
There are plenty of players out there with no life such as myself that can devote hours of our day to doing this service for STO. STO need only ask.
This would at least put a name behind the Ban Hammer.
The only thing I see in that list is posting "off topic" content ( and I am skim reading here ), and since zone chat has no rules on what is to be a topic, when or where, ( wouldn't that be silly? ) the relevancy to this guideline is null.
So if someone is making hateful vulgar comments about your religion, the color of your skin, your nationality, ( this happens every night, sometimes every few min at ESD) its okay and should be allowed? Im all for free speech but there is a forum for that kind of thing and ESD zone chat is not it. Since the start of Season 7 and the funneling of masses of players into ESD it has really gotten out of hand.
I hardly ever use zone chat. Maybe a comment here or there. I would be pretty irritated if I got chat banned for nothing. I can see that it is happening more and more and it needs to be fixed. While I am sure many think it is no big deal to be chat banned for 24 hours, I believe any ban that is not warranted is unacceptable.
The ignore button has a purpose and people should use it if they don't like what someone is saying. I play tons of other games and most of the time you can't even report someone (for spam or abuse) unless you ignore them first.
Problem solved. The community could police itself with the use of 1 button called "ignore".
It is never a good idea to place banning abilities in the hands of the players. Which most players are pretty responsible, but you are always going to have that 10% who will abuse it just to grief players. It is something PWE/Cryptic are going to have to address.
Personally, I have never ignored or reported anyone. Why should I? There is nothing any player can say about my religion, race or sex that would mean anything to me. If it ever did get to the point where it upset me, I would click the ignore button and move on. Like I said, there are going to be people in life that you just can't get along with no matter what you do. IE: the 10%
Ignore is within every players right and power. I am not sure why more people don't use it and feel like they have to be the "chat police"
Comments
Dear Cryptic today I was silenced for spam. having not spoken in zone chat ect I can only assume this resulted from my sending a fleet email. As a fleet leader this makes management rather difficult.
Under the system I can not.
Use zone chat.
Use fleet chat
Use officer chat.
Use private chat channels
Use team chat.
Use the PM system.
As I understand it the original idea of this auto muting function was to deal with gold spamming bots. A spam bot should not need to have fleet chat officer chat private channels team chat and the PM system blocked. This is the first fault.
Next I am a fleet leader. How exactly am I supposed to manage my fleet for the next 24 hours effectively when I have no chat? And no recourse except that maybe a GM might come along in 3/4 business days to address the issue. If your going to have a button that automatically mutes people there should be an expectation of doing something about unjustified mutes before they run out rather than days after the fact.
And finally fleet emails themselves. You should never be able to flag these as spam. And yes some newer players who don't understand the system (and in some cases English all that well) can mistake them for spam.
I am more than a little upset with this situation. So I hope this comes across as calm feedback and apologize if it fails to. But I find this situation a bit on the unacceptable side. When a system is punishing legitimate players and putting a serious dent in their ability to play the game with no recourse then its not performing its proper function.
Great feedback! I really hope that this does get addressed by the Devs sooner rather than later.
100% agree that silencing should not bar players from fleet and team chat.
I suspect that since the chat system functionality is shared across Cryptic's games, this will have to be a global update. Maybe the next major code merge would be a good opportunity to address this?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Not that I feel bad about it, mind you. I get tired of seeing that TRIBBLE, and I'm not blocking whole channels or closing chat entirely to avoid it.
I got flagged as a spammer... for some reason. No idea why or how. And now, not only can't I communicate publically, I can't send a message to anyone on my team, my friends list, anything. I can't even tell fleetmates that I'm not available.
The decision to cleave to this rule/system is going to cost PWE several hundred dollars of my money, because now I'm committed to never spending a cent on the game until this system changes.
(And while I'm not exactly a f2p 'whale,' I HAVE rather frivolously spent a bunch of cash on all sorts of things, including an Atrox and Guramba I don't use)
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
AFAIK, the 'silence' only lasts 24 hrs if that's any consolation whatsoever.
Thanks for the constructive feedback. I think this is an important issue and that honest, non-flaming feedback will get positive attention. Might not be as quick as we'd like, or resolved the way we'd like, but who knows?
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Now let's be fair, here.
"Spam" does not mean "any chat message you don't want to see". IMO, nobody should flag chat as spam without knowing what PWE defines as spam, or without actual direct knowledge of the Terms of Service.
"Ignores" should be something that anyone can use as they want to. Unfortunately, enough of these will also silence somebody and I don't think that's fair.
But my understanding is that it takes a lot more of these to silence somebody than the report spam function does.
I would strongly urge people to please not use the report as spam function unless the offending user is actually violating ToS.
This could include flooding zone chat with fleet recruiting messages every 60 seconds, as the offender is actively hindering other people from using the service. NOT just because it's a fleet recruiting message.
I'm pretty sure that advertising personal or third-party websites via chat definitely would constitute spam in the eyes of PWE.
Before anyone decides to use that function any way they like, though, remember that the next victim of chat intolerance could be yourself.
I won't argue with anyone who freely uses "ignore", though... that's what it's supposed to be for.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
In other games the silence feature is a GM only tool as automated silencing systems are subject to abuse the way they are abused in this game.
Now that the mechanics of this system are clarified I will be writing tickets in relation to players threatening to ignore players. I can only interpret this as an attempt to abuse the silence function. Also, these players should spend less time threatening people and more time playing the game.
Another feature that should be added is that if you ignore someone you should not be able to message the person that you have ignored. I have had this feature abused. One player kept sending me offensive tells. I was going to ask him to stop but I was on his ignore list. The only option was to write a ticket. I have no doubt that the player had action taken against them but they shouldn't be able to do this in the first place.
Sometimes people have quite legitimate and fun conversations that I just don't feel like listening to, and one of my frustrations with this system is that I can't do that without punishing them.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
That said, I don't see how saying "Selling [Antiproton Mag Regulator Mk XII]" six times in five minutes with a rapidly scrolling zone chat would be considered spam. Hopefully this will get resolved. I can't do anything involving in-game typing. I had to leave a status update for my character that says "I'm silenced. If I don't respond, that's why. I'll be able to type again on Thursday at 7p EST."
Leader of Quantum Mechanics
Member of DPS-30000
#1 A player shouldn't be automatically silenced just because others players put them on ignore. The player could be engaged in a conversation and have a difference of opinion that a few others don't agree with. Silencing someone just because they have an opinion is stupid.
#2 If a player is flagged as a spammer by several other players, a GM should be notified to take a look at the chat logs of the flagged player and make a determination of whether or not they should be punished. Players will be flagged as spammers just for having a difference of opinion and/or advertising something they want to trade once every couple minutes.
The whole idea of an automatic punishment is lazy on Cryptic's part and clearly being abused. Without the human element to make a determination mistakes are being made.
Side note: About a week ago the conversation in ESD zone chat was becoming inappropriate and an actual GM came and asked for the conversation to be changed yet there is 1 particular troll that has been starting political/religious arguments every single day for over a week and nothing is done about it. I've had this player on my ignore list for a while but still see other players respond to him/her by character name. A conversation of an adult nature is not allowed but players cursing each other out about gun control or other politically sensitive subjects goes on unabated? My only guess is someone use the "Report to GM" feature at that time.
I usually stand around in ESD because it has all I need (bank, exchange, vendors) to store/sell/get rid of all the stuff I get in STFs and such and lately it's really annoying with all the TRIBBLE being argued about. And the reason why I don't close my chat window is because I enjoy answering player questions about the game, if I know the answer. If I don't know I don't say anything.
Edit: How about this suggestion: Add a trade channel to the game that can be added/removed from your chat window.
I disagree with you there. I think that is spam, considering the current environment.
Why? You said it yourself: "rapidly scrolling zone chat". One channel can't really sustain more than one multi-player conversation at a time, but people do it all the time. Enough of that, and you can't follow any one conversation. If you're interrupting the dialogue once a minute or more, that's too much. If it looks like spam, people will treat it as such.
I wouldn't report it, probably, but I can see where others would have at least put the offender on ignore.
This is where the Community can help itself and learn to start a private channel when they want to have a long conversation and take that out of zone chat. People get annoyed when they get interrupted... so they should have their conversations in a way that makes it less likely that they will.
Zone chat should be used to connect with other players just long enough to team up or ask a quick question or agree on a channel to use. It shouldn't be used for extended personal conversations or for role-play. If we all followed that rule of thumb, then maybe the occasional chat ad every five minutes or so wouldn't be a big deal.
This is a good idea, but there's no reason to wait for Cryptic to do it. The Community started the DOFFJOBS and REDALERT channels and it can do the same for trading. If someone the Community trusts would be willing to start a trade channel and then advertise it here on the forums, it could catch on. Admittedly, those two channels got started because they were trying to solve a particular problem. Well, a trade channel would be trying to solve the problem of getting silenced when someone's offering a trade by putting those messages in a place where they won't interrupt conversations.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
What about harassment? I think that should be pretty near the top of the list. I used to get harassed by one specific individual in the game. I sent ticket upon ticket upon ticket about this guy, sometimes with his threats included in the ticket. Nothing has been done to my knowledge (and they won't let me know anyways regardless because of the TOS) but since then, I haven't had much of an issue but then again, he's probably been humbled by his experiences in the game and he's realizes he's not the "bad TRIBBLE" he thinks he is because he doesn't have his fleet (and maybe friends ) to support him, but yeah...
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Original Handle: the_orig_jean_luc_picard
I can't give you an official PWE answer. I am not they.
I think certain kinds of harassment would be against the ToS. I think your tickets would've gotten investigated eventually. I suspect that they would more likely punish a pattern of harassment than one single instance, depending on the circumstances.
But like you said, we won't ever know because PWE won't discuss specifics like that. Rightly so, I might add. But maybe the person backed off because they got an official warning?
I would suggest that people use the "Report to GM" option when they receive RL threats in chat. If they're just trash talking, I'd use ignore and be done with it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
So you're saying that we shouldn't even socialize unless we join a channel dedicated to it? That's absurd. Players are going to socialize no matter what and personally I don't have a problem with it unless the conversation turns inappropriate or people start arguing about controversial subjects.
First of all I don't know how to join a chat channel and I'm sure a lot of new players don't either. If we had a default trade channel it would make things easier because if players had to create such a channel you would end up with multiple channels for the same thing and wouldn't be able to see everything players are trading unless you joined every channel.
Also, now would be a good time to consider adding an official trade channel to the game. With the new lock box out, ESD zone chat is full of people trading the new items coming from the boxes. In some cases players are even trying to scam others. Example: at least 1 player was trying to charge over 1 million energy credits for the new Mirror Patrol Escort. I bought 2 of them for my characters in the exchange for 200k each and that's about what they are going for. Also players trying to sell bound items - 1 player was trying to sell an Odyssey that I believe was the free version from an anniversary event and another player told them that once you take it out of the box it can't be traded. Granted the player may not have known it was bound because they didn't check first. The spamming has gotten bad now because of all the trading in the zone chat now.
Inside Q's Winter Wonderland it was bad at first during the event. Players kept trying to sell the winter Epohh tags in zone chat. Some players may not know some items are bound and can't be traded because they don't look first but some players were clearly trolling and kept advertising the items even after multiple players told them over and over they are bound.
No, I am saying that Zone chat is not the place for multiple, unrelated conversations. Especially not long ones that have nothing to do with playing the game. ...In my opinion, of course.
This is a case where the Community can help itself (and each other) by teaching new players how to use chat.
And I'm not talking about opening up multiple trading channels. I'm talking about a Community-backed trade channel where the Community as a whole agrees to use it, just like DOFFJOBS was started by the Community, for the Community.
Sure, Cryptic could add a trade channel. Which would then join all of the other messages scrolling across everybody's chat window by default and people would have to learn to use the chat system to turn it off anyway.
I think a general Trade channel that people can choose to subscribe to is not a bad idea. Preferably one that a few large fleets decided to get behind using.
I'm not all that sure that multiple trading channels are such a bad idea either, as long as they're category specific. For example, different channels for trading commodities, BOFFs, DOFFs, Mk XII Purple Space Weapons with [Acc], etc. Let people subscribe to the channels they're interested in and ignore the rest.
Anyway, this is starting to get off topic. If someone wants to start another thread to suggest a trade channel be added to the game, that would be fine.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
That's a repeated, unsolicited, mass distributed message sent electronically for commercial purposes. In what possible way is that not spam?
A trade channel when an Exchange/Auction House/whatever already exists is a horrendous idea, and benefits only scammers at the expense of suckers. There is a reason many companies (Such as Blizzard and ArenaNet) explicitly refuse to become involved in transactions conducted this way, or act in any way that may be construed as supporting this practice.
The Exchange is accessible by the entire player base. For a seller, this allows them access to the most buyers possible. For a buyer, this allows them access to the most supply possible. Prices are strictly based on supply and demand. Assuming the Exchange is fully functional, only two situations can occur when a sale is arranged between two unknown parties:
1. The item is underpriced - the seller is the sucker for not using the Exchange to see the market price, and the buyer is scamming them.
2. The item is overpriced - the buyer is the sucker for not using the Exchange to see the market price, and the seller is scamming them.
If you intend to get the market price in the first place, then you would use the Exchange which would result in faster sales. If you are deliberately granting a discount or paying extra because of a preexisting relationship with the other party (friend or Fleet mate) then you wouldn't need to spam or use a Trade channel.
This applies to any existing market. If someone is bypassing convenience and greater access to customers, there will be a scammer and a sucker in the ensuing transaction.
Hence why some hardly ever use zone or local chat while the children have the ability to abuse it.
I fully expect to see someone muted and having never even chatted at all.
R.I.P
I urge players to NEVER use the report spam feature as a matter of protest, the function is ethically questionable both in the use of, and the advocation of. This feature is so Cryptic can continue to get away with continued lack of staff and support.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
None of which is spam.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Either that, or make dealing with reports of bogus chat bans more of a priority. If engendering a 24 hour bogus ban got you a 48 hour legit ban, it would happen a lot less often.
Although Cryptic has made it clear that they agree with you in regards to the function of the "Report Spam" button, I would remind you of the definition of Spamming in the Community Rules and Guidelines for all Perfect World games:
It all certainly meets that definition.
The only thing I see in that list is posting "off topic" content ( and I am skim reading here ), and since zone chat has no rules on what is to be a topic, when or where, ( wouldn't that be silly? ) the relevancy to this guideline is null.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
That's a great point. I too play BSGO and have slowed down quite a bit in recent months due to the overwhelming number of glitches a bugs that needed to be addressed. The System in using players as Chat Mods works well. As with anything, you can have bad apples that do everything in there power to slip by and become mods just to abuse it. They don't normally last long as the player rally and mass complain. The problem with mass player controlled ban hammers is who do you complain about when the ban hammers slammed down on someone that didn't deserve it?
A player controlled ban function become completely pointless when players could simply Ignore. I don't truly like what someone is saying then I simply ignore them. From that point on how can they affect what i see in chat in any way shape or form?
STO needs player based Chat mods that are screened through an interview process just like the forum mods. And the only thing that should happen if players flag another player for spam is that players name becomes a stand out color to the chat mod so they take more notice of what they are saying. To help the Chat filter(mod) Filter out the filth.
There are plenty of players out there with no life such as myself that can devote hours of our day to doing this service for STO. STO need only ask.
This would at least put a name behind the Ban Hammer.
I mean, it can be really obnoxious and I think people who do it should be ignored, but I don't think 24 hour chat bans make sense.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
So if someone is making hateful vulgar comments about your religion, the color of your skin, your nationality, ( this happens every night, sometimes every few min at ESD) its okay and should be allowed? Im all for free speech but there is a forum for that kind of thing and ESD zone chat is not it. Since the start of Season 7 and the funneling of masses of players into ESD it has really gotten out of hand.
The ignore button has a purpose and people should use it if they don't like what someone is saying. I play tons of other games and most of the time you can't even report someone (for spam or abuse) unless you ignore them first.
Problem solved. The community could police itself with the use of 1 button called "ignore".
It is never a good idea to place banning abilities in the hands of the players. Which most players are pretty responsible, but you are always going to have that 10% who will abuse it just to grief players. It is something PWE/Cryptic are going to have to address.
Personally, I have never ignored or reported anyone. Why should I? There is nothing any player can say about my religion, race or sex that would mean anything to me. If it ever did get to the point where it upset me, I would click the ignore button and move on. Like I said, there are going to be people in life that you just can't get along with no matter what you do. IE: the 10%
Ignore is within every players right and power. I am not sure why more people don't use it and feel like they have to be the "chat police"