My advise to you is to not ever use zone chat, and make a custom channel for you and your friends etc.
Yep, I used to be terrified of zone chat because of the random silences (which stop you even talking to fleet mates or PM's) but now you can be actually kicked out of the game for absurd reasons.
Yep, I used to be terrified of zone chat because of the random silences (which stop you even talking to fleet mates or PM's) but now you can be actually kicked out of the game for absurd reasons.
I dunno what you said so I cannot tell if you pissed people off by simply ansvering with a stupid foolish comment or did you got griefed by "report spam" feature, im sure you didn't say anything about selling gold, you just failed by yourself (justice well deserved) or yep... too bad. nothing you can do.
dunno if you know or not but if approx 5 people report you from spam, you get autosilenced, if you talk about gold, you get warned, and second will get you perma banned.
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
In Cryptic's chat channels, if you accumulate a certain number of spam reports or Ignores, you're automatically silenced in Chat for 24 hours. It's fully automated, with no human intervention whatsoever. It's become a point of pride in CO - Caliga gets chat-banned about once a week or so, because apparently some folks can't handle that every time he logs in, he announces his presence by shouting, "CALIGAAAAAA!!!" He only does it the once each time, but...
(I'm kind of disappointed - I use Chat, I even discuss topics like politics and the fact that Wolverine sucks, but I still haven't been chat-banned.)
It's infamous enough that my highest-level character there, Happifun Security System X-4, has adopted as his Nemesis a crazed robot named Autochatban.
I just got silenced for 24 hours, I'm assuming because someone relayed their experiences with something in the game and I relayed my experiences, but my experiences didn't match up with theirs.
So they just assumed I was lying, trolling, and/or just being an all-around jerk.
Here is essentially what happened:
-Someone inquired about not being able to turn in red alerts.
-Another person told them that they could just hold on to them and turn them all in when the problem gets fixed.
-I stated that I didn't think that was true because that could possibly break the character.
-They said that I was wrong, and that missions are only dropped and retaken from the beginning if there's a huge update to the mission.
-I stated that I didn't think that was true because every other time I log in missions that I've had for a while are dropped & retaken from the beginning regardless of whether they've been changed since I picked them up.
-I was told "Wow Xander try going back to bed and waking up on the OTHER side because you're in a seriously messed up mood."
-I proceeded to defend myself by explaining that I was only stating facts.
-I did so in a civil manner with no angry emotes, no swearing, and no exclamation points.
- I then told that person that I was going to ignore them because I thought they were an idiot for saying I woke up on the wrong side of the bed because my facts didn't match up with their experiences.
-I then got marked as spam by enough people to be silenced for 24 hours.
While I admit that maybe calling them an idiot wasn't the best decision, I still think that, at the least, people should not be silenced from speaking to their fleet and the people on their friend list, since those people actually understand when they're being civil.
Also, I think having the "Report Spam" option so readily accessible in chat is ridiculous because apparently, judging by this, some people are more apt to hit 'Report Spam" than "Ignore Player" regardless of whether it actually applies.
So, again, I think we should at least not be silenced from speaking to our friends and our fleet just because someone else misunderstood what we were saying and took improper action.
Thank you.
P.S. Thank you to whomever merged my thread into the proper thread.
You're doing a great job!
Keep it up!
=-D
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
Sorry to hear you got silenced but people have a right to put you on ignore and or report spam because they don't want to see your conversations filling up their chat boxes. It doesn't matter if you are being civil or not, your conversation was an annoyance to enough people that it incurred a 24 hour silencing.
It sucks but it's working as intended.
If you read his post, you will see basically he got silenced for someone disagreeing with his opinion. IMHO that doesn't' give the right to silence someone from the entire chat system.
Sorry only GM's should have that power, not normal players. It can be EASILY abused.
Sorry to hear you got silenced but people have a right to put you on ignore and or report spam because they don't want to see your conversations filling up their chat boxes. It doesn't matter if you are being civil or not, your conversation was an annoyance to enough people that it incurred a 24 hour silencing.
It sucks but it's working as intended.
...for basically saying they were justified in reporting me as spam for chatting in the chat system without breaking any rules or actually causing spam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And thank you for this,
If you read his post, you will see basically he got silenced for someone disagreeing with his opinion. IMHO that doesn't' give the right to silence someone from the entire chat system.
Sorry only GM's should have that power, not normal players. It can be EASILY abused.
...nafeasonto1.
It's nice to see at least one other player understands where I'm coming from, here.
As I said, I don't mind being ignored, but a person having the ability to report me as spam simply because they disagree with me and do not wish to acknowledge my defense or allow me to even speak to my own friend and the 90 members of the Romulan Republic Fleet in which I founded and run solely, is ridiculous.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
Sometimes for a broken system to be addressed and fixed is for the system to become completely broken.
My suggestion is to report any and all unwelcome conversation as SPAM. If enough people get silenced then there will be a uproar from the players and maybe cryptic would have some motivation to fix it.
It doesn't matter what the content of the conversation is, people have a right to ignore and report as spam anything that interferes with their ability to use public chat channels.
I very much agree with this portion right here. People absolutely have the the right to ignore someone if they don't want to see what that person is saying.
However I don't believe that we need an auto-silence feature hooked up to the ignore function. Once that person is on ignore, that's the end of it. You won't see what that person says anymore. No need to silence that person from all forms of chat.
I know that Cryptic won't change this, but bad system is still bad.
Same here. There is absolutely nothing I need to read in public channels nor anyone I want to talk to. All communications are thru private/fleet channels.
Sometimes, when a person has a question or needs help with something, the "Help" channel is empty, Cryptic is off of work on Sundays, and STOWiki.org is too far behind in updating to have the answer, there is nowhere else to go.
And every time, it ends with me being silenced for 24 hours just because no one in that specific channel has had my problem and therefore marks me as spam just for asking.
I get silenced for 24 hours every time I play just for inquiring about a problem I'm having, and hoping someone can help instead of me having to sift through the entire forums for the rest of the day.
That is not fair at all.
I never said people didn't have the right; I simply said they should not have the right.
There is absolutely no need to report someone as spam when they are simply chatting in the Zone chat channel, of all places.
That is what it is for, general chatting; That's why a lot of other MMO's call it the "General Channel".
Once you hit "Ignore Player", your problem is solved; Whether it's an annoying conversation, someone you just flat out disagree with, or even those EC selling spammers; The problem is solved.
If someone is really spamming, then we can always hit "Ignore Player" and "Report to GM".
Same effect, except "Report to GM" gives them a fair chance with the conversation being formally reviewed by an official before action is taken, if necessary, instead of silencing them immediately from all chat over someone else's simple inability to acknowledge another person's right to speak.
That's all I'm saying.
It's unfair, there is a better way, so why is no one doing anything about it?
That's all I'm saying.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
I do wonder what's to stop some troll fleet from just all going to some high-traffic location, then just start reporting anyone who says anything? Are there actually any consequences for abuse of the report spam button? It the use of the button even tracked in this manner so such abuse could even be detected?
I do wonder what's to stop some troll fleet from just all going to some high-traffic location, then just start reporting anyone who says anything? Are there actually any consequences for abuse of the report spam button? It the use of the button even tracked in this manner so such abuse could even be detected?
Very good question.
I wonder that every day...when I get 24-hour silenced for asking a question or answering one with a list of my factual experiences on the subject.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
I do wonder what's to stop some troll fleet from just all going to some high-traffic location, then just start reporting anyone who says anything? Are there actually any consequences for abuse of the report spam button? It the use of the button even tracked in this manner so such abuse could even be detected?
Honestly that is the only way to motivate Cryptic to fix this broken system. Report all messages in Zone or local as Spam. There will be thousands of people silenced and a huge uproar from the population and they will have to address is. There will be a chat apocalypse and the zones will be silent.
As it stands only a few people here and there get ticked and they don't care but if a vast majority of players had to experience the injustice and raged to Cryptic, I am pretty sure they would readdress the chat system.
If im at DS9 or ESD and someone is going on an on aboout TRIBBLE's or Obama or gun control or religion I report them for spam in a heartbeat.
Ditto.
Which is why I don't do anything even remotely like that.
If it isn't STo-Related, Star Trek-Related, or at least Science-Fiction-Related, I don't say it in the public chats.
That's not the place for it.
The way I see it, that's the place for meeting new friends, getting help when you have nowhere else to turn, and posting maybe once per hour that you have a fleet and want to recruit some people for it because there is no official chat channel for that...or is there?
If your conversation/remarks are not appropriate to that area, then they are spam.
My conversation and remarks where appropriate to that area; Not spam.
It's a bit disheartening that these people in question don't at least warn you before they report you as spam when you're not spamming.
At least I warn people before I ignore them, which is ALL I do.
Of course, they don't care, and I ignore them, but the problem is solved nonetheless, and no one gets banned from chatting with their friends/fleetmates.
It seems to me, THAT is the right way to handle it.
I just wish other players and Cryptic would see it that way.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
First off, to the original matter, the OP is incorrect. yes you can just hold onto the borg missions and turn them in once fixed.
there are cases when missions are dropped but that is when there is a major change to the mission itself, or the whole missions has been reworked. a bug fix to the turn in wont be one of those cases.
the problem with silencing, is people use the wrong feature. 'report spam' should only be used for spam. the entire community can ignore you all they like as that is their right, but people should only click on the report spam when its actually spam.
now its become clear that people can be trusted to use the feature correctly so i am inclined to think it needs changing, however in saying that, its impossible to come up with a way to deal with spam without someone getting caught out by it. its only 24 hours. its not like this is going to happen to you every day. just take it and move on until if and when they change it.
its only 24 hours. its not like this is going to happen to you every day. just take it and move on until if and when they change it.
You see, that's the problem; This does happen to me everyday.
I have a fleet of over 90 members and cannot run it properly because I cannot ever talk to them or in-game email, for that matter; I can't even send a Fleet eMail !
That's downright unnecessary.
There is another way to counter spamming; It's called the "Report to GM" option right there with the "Report Spam" & "Ignore Player" option.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
You see, that's the problem; This DOES happen to me everyday.
I have a fleet of over 90 members and cannot run it properly because I cannot ever talk to them or in-game email, for that matter; I can't even send a Fleet eMail !
That's downright unnecessary.
There IS another way to counter spamming; It's called the "Report to GM" option right there with the "Report Spam" & "Ignore Player" option.
Ok, you are telling me a different group of people are flagging you for spam every day?
if that's the case perhaps you are not communicating with people in quite as civil a way as possible because that's ridiculous.
received 24-hour ban for sending out promotion notifications to fleet members.
every time I send a fleet mail I risk a 24-chat ban from fleet member hitting the wrong button on this clunky system
See, now, captainrevo1?
This game proves everyday that you don't have to do deserve punishment to be punished.
Auto-Silencing is unnecessary and welcome only by griefers.
Change is desperately needed.
This could all be avoided by simply getting rid of the "Report Spam" option/button and requiring people to actually file a report with a GM or official that can then take proper action if necessary.
Heck, I'll volunteer myself as one of those people.
Cryptic/PWE give me a list of what to 24-Chat-Ban people for, let me read the reports to the GM's on players, and I'll be more than happy to replace the "Auto-Silence system every day that I logon.
I'm serious.
I'll do it.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
See, now, captainrevo1?
This game proves everyday that you don't have to do deserve punishment to be punished.
Auto-Silencing is unnecessary and welcome only by griefers.
Change is desperately needed.
yes, he said it happened once. i can totally believe that this can happen to anyone once, or twice, or three times. people make mistakes and click the wrong button, or dont think before they click.
you are telling me its every day or nearly. thats beyond an accident.
yes, he said it happened once. i can totally believe that this can happen to anyone once, or twice, or three times. people make mistakes and click the wrong button, or dont think before they click.
you are telling me its every day or nearly. thats beyond an accident.
No.
It is not.
I have 20 toons, with at least one in each Sector Block.
I farm the Dilithium for ALL of my fleet's projects, alone.
I am in every part of the game's world within 4 hours, everyday.
There are thousands of other players throughout the game.
I get silenced at least every other day, for merely speaking in a Zone chat channel; Which is what it is for.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
I get silenced at least every other day, for merely speaking in a Zone chat channel; Which is what it is for.
no, im sorry, unless a very specific group of people are trolling you somehow, which i guess is always posssible, then something you are saying or the way you say things is annoying the hell out of people because that is crazy. you occasionally see the odd person complain about being silenced unfairly, yes it happens. its not some mass occurrence that happens to people all the time.
ive used the different chats and channels for years without a problem. I know every players experience is different but its not this minefield of people reporting everyone for spam. getting silenced every single day or other day? no that is beyond bad luck.
if you are being silenced every day for general chat in zone chat then you have to be saying something, doing something, anything to be annoying entirely new groups of people every day as every time someone reports you, you automatically go on their ignore list.
I have to ask do you recruit for your fleet in zone chat?
that is one way to attract a lot of spam reports.
I post one message regarding that MAYBE every 2 hours.
I post it, run a couple of missions, and then post it again in a different zone.
Regardless of whether I deserve to be ignored, my point is that I am being marked as spam & thus I am unable to even PM/eMail my friends, use Fleet/Officer chat for MY fleet, or even send a Fleet email. That is completely unnecessary. That is my problem.
"Join Date: Jun 2012" Says Cryptic's "new" forum system. I've been here since a week before launch, but SOME stuff just didn't carry over through multiple system changes/updates. :rolleyes:
Comments
My advise to you is to not ever use zone chat, and make a custom channel for you and your friends etc.
Yep, I used to be terrified of zone chat because of the random silences (which stop you even talking to fleet mates or PM's) but now you can be actually kicked out of the game for absurd reasons.
This is troubling....
your advice is useless .Theres a way/chat command to silence people using their handles .They dont even need to be in the same zone.
dunno if you know or not but if approx 5 people report you from spam, you get autosilenced, if you talk about gold, you get warned, and second will get you perma banned.
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
(I'm kind of disappointed - I use Chat, I even discuss topics like politics and the fact that Wolverine sucks, but I still haven't been chat-banned.)
It's infamous enough that my highest-level character there, Happifun Security System X-4, has adopted as his Nemesis a crazed robot named Autochatban.
So yeah, "working as intended".
If that's a bannable offense, this world has become very weird indeed...
I just got silenced for 24 hours, I'm assuming because someone relayed their experiences with something in the game and I relayed my experiences, but my experiences didn't match up with theirs.
So they just assumed I was lying, trolling, and/or just being an all-around jerk.
Here is essentially what happened:
-Someone inquired about not being able to turn in red alerts.
-Another person told them that they could just hold on to them and turn them all in when the problem gets fixed.
-I stated that I didn't think that was true because that could possibly break the character.
-They said that I was wrong, and that missions are only dropped and retaken from the beginning if there's a huge update to the mission.
-I stated that I didn't think that was true because every other time I log in missions that I've had for a while are dropped & retaken from the beginning regardless of whether they've been changed since I picked them up.
-I was told "Wow Xander try going back to bed and waking up on the OTHER side because you're in a seriously messed up mood."
-I proceeded to defend myself by explaining that I was only stating facts.
-I did so in a civil manner with no angry emotes, no swearing, and no exclamation points.
- I then told that person that I was going to ignore them because I thought they were an idiot for saying I woke up on the wrong side of the bed because my facts didn't match up with their experiences.
-I then got marked as spam by enough people to be silenced for 24 hours.
While I admit that maybe calling them an idiot wasn't the best decision, I still think that, at the least, people should not be silenced from speaking to their fleet and the people on their friend list, since those people actually understand when they're being civil.
Also, I think having the "Report Spam" option so readily accessible in chat is ridiculous because apparently, judging by this, some people are more apt to hit 'Report Spam" than "Ignore Player" regardless of whether it actually applies.
So, again, I think we should at least not be silenced from speaking to our friends and our fleet just because someone else misunderstood what we were saying and took improper action.
Thank you.
P.S. Thank you to whomever merged my thread into the proper thread.
You're doing a great job!
Keep it up!
=-D
If you read his post, you will see basically he got silenced for someone disagreeing with his opinion. IMHO that doesn't' give the right to silence someone from the entire chat system.
Sorry only GM's should have that power, not normal players. It can be EASILY abused.
works better than no rules
Better rules work better than no rules, too.
What's your @Name so I can ignore you right back?
And this guy, too... ...for basically saying they were justified in reporting me as spam for chatting in the chat system without breaking any rules or actually causing spam.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And thank you for this, ...nafeasonto1.
It's nice to see at least one other player understands where I'm coming from, here.
As I said, I don't mind being ignored, but a person having the ability to report me as spam simply because they disagree with me and do not wish to acknowledge my defense or allow me to even speak to my own friend and the 90 members of the Romulan Republic Fleet in which I founded and run solely, is ridiculous.
My suggestion is to report any and all unwelcome conversation as SPAM. If enough people get silenced then there will be a uproar from the players and maybe cryptic would have some motivation to fix it.
Personally I only chat in private channels.
I very much agree with this portion right here. People absolutely have the the right to ignore someone if they don't want to see what that person is saying.
However I don't believe that we need an auto-silence feature hooked up to the ignore function. Once that person is on ignore, that's the end of it. You won't see what that person says anymore. No need to silence that person from all forms of chat.
I know that Cryptic won't change this, but bad system is still bad.
Mine Trap Supporter
Sometimes, when a person has a question or needs help with something, the "Help" channel is empty, Cryptic is off of work on Sundays, and STOWiki.org is too far behind in updating to have the answer, there is nowhere else to go.
And every time, it ends with me being silenced for 24 hours just because no one in that specific channel has had my problem and therefore marks me as spam just for asking.
I get silenced for 24 hours every time I play just for inquiring about a problem I'm having, and hoping someone can help instead of me having to sift through the entire forums for the rest of the day.
That is not fair at all.
I never said people didn't have the right; I simply said they should not have the right.
There is absolutely no need to report someone as spam when they are simply chatting in the Zone chat channel, of all places.
That is what it is for, general chatting; That's why a lot of other MMO's call it the "General Channel".
Once you hit "Ignore Player", your problem is solved; Whether it's an annoying conversation, someone you just flat out disagree with, or even those EC selling spammers; The problem is solved.
If someone is really spamming, then we can always hit "Ignore Player" and "Report to GM".
Same effect, except "Report to GM" gives them a fair chance with the conversation being formally reviewed by an official before action is taken, if necessary, instead of silencing them immediately from all chat over someone else's simple inability to acknowledge another person's right to speak.
That's all I'm saying.
It's unfair, there is a better way, so why is no one doing anything about it?
That's all I'm saying.
Very good question.
I wonder that every day...when I get 24-hour silenced for asking a question or answering one with a list of my factual experiences on the subject.
Honestly that is the only way to motivate Cryptic to fix this broken system. Report all messages in Zone or local as Spam. There will be thousands of people silenced and a huge uproar from the population and they will have to address is. There will be a chat apocalypse and the zones will be silent.
As it stands only a few people here and there get ticked and they don't care but if a vast majority of players had to experience the injustice and raged to Cryptic, I am pretty sure they would readdress the chat system.
Ditto.
Which is why I don't do anything even remotely like that.
If it isn't STo-Related, Star Trek-Related, or at least Science-Fiction-Related, I don't say it in the public chats.
That's not the place for it.
The way I see it, that's the place for meeting new friends, getting help when you have nowhere else to turn, and posting maybe once per hour that you have a fleet and want to recruit some people for it because there is no official chat channel for that...or is there?
If your conversation/remarks are not appropriate to that area, then they are spam.
My conversation and remarks where appropriate to that area; Not spam.
It's a bit disheartening that these people in question don't at least warn you before they report you as spam when you're not spamming.
At least I warn people before I ignore them, which is ALL I do.
Of course, they don't care, and I ignore them, but the problem is solved nonetheless, and no one gets banned from chatting with their friends/fleetmates.
It seems to me, THAT is the right way to handle it.
I just wish other players and Cryptic would see it that way.
there are cases when missions are dropped but that is when there is a major change to the mission itself, or the whole missions has been reworked. a bug fix to the turn in wont be one of those cases.
the problem with silencing, is people use the wrong feature. 'report spam' should only be used for spam. the entire community can ignore you all they like as that is their right, but people should only click on the report spam when its actually spam.
now its become clear that people can be trusted to use the feature correctly so i am inclined to think it needs changing, however in saying that, its impossible to come up with a way to deal with spam without someone getting caught out by it. its only 24 hours. its not like this is going to happen to you every day. just take it and move on until if and when they change it.
You see, that's the problem; This does happen to me everyday.
I have a fleet of over 90 members and cannot run it properly because I cannot ever talk to them or in-game email, for that matter; I can't even send a Fleet eMail !
That's downright unnecessary.
There is another way to counter spamming; It's called the "Report to GM" option right there with the "Report Spam" & "Ignore Player" option.
Ok, you are telling me a different group of people are flagging you for spam every day?
if that's the case perhaps you are not communicating with people in quite as civil a way as possible because that's ridiculous.
every time I send a fleet mail I risk a 24-chat ban from fleet member hitting the wrong button on this clunky system
Really, now?
See, now, captainrevo1?
This game proves everyday that you don't have to do deserve punishment to be punished.
Auto-Silencing is unnecessary and welcome only by griefers.
Change is desperately needed.
This could all be avoided by simply getting rid of the "Report Spam" option/button and requiring people to actually file a report with a GM or official that can then take proper action if necessary.
Heck, I'll volunteer myself as one of those people.
Cryptic/PWE give me a list of what to 24-Chat-Ban people for, let me read the reports to the GM's on players, and I'll be more than happy to replace the "Auto-Silence system every day that I logon.
I'm serious.
I'll do it.
yes, he said it happened once. i can totally believe that this can happen to anyone once, or twice, or three times. people make mistakes and click the wrong button, or dont think before they click.
you are telling me its every day or nearly. thats beyond an accident.
No.
It is not.
I have 20 toons, with at least one in each Sector Block.
I farm the Dilithium for ALL of my fleet's projects, alone.
I am in every part of the game's world within 4 hours, everyday.
There are thousands of other players throughout the game.
I get silenced at least every other day, for merely speaking in a Zone chat channel; Which is what it is for.
no, im sorry, unless a very specific group of people are trolling you somehow, which i guess is always posssible, then something you are saying or the way you say things is annoying the hell out of people because that is crazy. you occasionally see the odd person complain about being silenced unfairly, yes it happens. its not some mass occurrence that happens to people all the time.
ive used the different chats and channels for years without a problem. I know every players experience is different but its not this minefield of people reporting everyone for spam. getting silenced every single day or other day? no that is beyond bad luck.
if you are being silenced every day for general chat in zone chat then you have to be saying something, doing something, anything to be annoying entirely new groups of people every day as every time someone reports you, you automatically go on their ignore list.
that is one way to attract a lot of spam reports.
I post one message regarding that MAYBE every 2 hours.
I post it, run a couple of missions, and then post it again in a different zone.
Regardless of whether I deserve to be ignored, my point is that I am being marked as spam & thus I am unable to even PM/eMail my friends, use Fleet/Officer chat for MY fleet, or even send a Fleet email.
That is completely unnecessary.
That is my problem.