They aren't better than the Fleet ships either, and yet people looove them some Orbweavers and Recluses. (Infact Recluse pets are some of the worst options overall)
The ship being unique but on par with fleet ships is good enough to make them desirable. Here's the thing, Fleet Ships are Ground for, weeks, if not months in the making to get them. A lockbox ship is something you can get on the first or second try in less than five minutes. Fleet ships also cost, on average 20 USD a pop.
Ignoring the fact that Lockbox ships ( particularly this one ) take far more to get, and are infact very pricy, even over the exchange.
Ignoring the fact that Fleet Ships are always available, whereas lockbox ships are not.
Ignoring the fact that the Attack Ship wasn't even in a Lockbox last time, yet cost more than a lockbox, and was available for a far shorter time than any other lockbox ship. ( Excluding Winter Event )
So tell me, exactly why should the bug be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a fleet ship again? "I spent hundreds to get mine!" And you made that choice. If you're dumb enough to shell out that kind of cash for something you can't even hold in your hand, you have issues you need to work through.
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Furthermore ever bought a video game? Yes? How about a videogame console? Yes? How dare you shell out that kind of cash for virtual eyecandy.
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Holly cow Mewi, you're living in a flight control tower? Lol. I bet that only the 3 monitor stand was a small fortune. Still, for this game, I think you'd better be with a 37-42 inch tv, but that's me...
A side note: the issue with spending money is not a problem in itself, but when only few people can afford it or are willing to spend, then the game goes to hell since those people that can afford will kick the butts of everybody else, so having a "slight" advantage is somewhat ok, but when this advantage gets more than slight, it becomes an issue.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Ignoring the fact that Lockbox ships ( particularly this one ) take far more to get, and are infact very pricy, even over the exchange.
Ignoring the fact that Fleet Ships are always available, whereas lockbox ships are not.
Ignoring the fact that the Attack Ship wasn't even in a Lockbox last time, yet cost more than a lockbox, and was available for a far shorter time than any other lockbox ship. ( Excluding Winter Event )
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Furthermore ever bought a video game? Yes? How about a videogame console? Yes? How dare you shell out that kind of cash for virtual eyecandy.
See above. The Tholian ships and the Galor didn't get to be OP. So why did the bug?
Fleet Ships again take ALOT of resources to get, often times you have to end up buying Doff Packs just to feed the damn missions. Meaning their cost is often, quite usually higher than 20 dollars before it is said and done. "always available" Yes, to people with fleets, fleets which Usually consist of more than one person, each dedicating no small amount of time to get better ships. Available, providing you grind for Week upon Week, upon Week to get it, over an entire guild. Vs... Oh I spent 110 cpoints looky a lockbox ship! wooo!
You want an advantage, to compensate for your lack of ability. You're willing to shell out oodles of money to get it. What happens when cryptic does it again, and makes something more powerful than your ship. What are you going to then? Open your wallet again?
Do you really think I care about your income level there champ? What you spent on your computer, I've put into my cars. Easily.
Funny, when I spend twenty to sixty dollars for a game, I get a full product, that in most cases, I have a hard copy of. Not... you shell out sixty dollars for something that once the game dies and STO will die, you'll never get to use it again. If you want to be Stupid and spend hundreds of dollars for a Ship, go right ahead. But that doesn't mean you get to have in game advantages (or shouldn't) over someone that spent less than you because they had more sense than you. Or if you do feel that way, maybe you should have aimed abit higher than what you got since you don't feel it's superior enough.
Bug ship was already op before they added a 5th tac console, they should get rid of that extra tac console, no need for that. It still would have advantages of maneuverability, hull and universal slots over 5 tac console fleet ships. If they really insist on giving the bug ship a extra console it should be a sci console. Only real counter to it is Armitage with Danubes to stop its insane maneuverability.
Honestly this entire conversation reminds me of when people used to ba ba ba BOP... is BS OP TRIBBLE. It can out turn anything. Of course after 4 or 5 more ships got released the BOP ain't so OP anymore right.
I will say this... they should have taken the recent bump it got with the 5th console and waited 1-2 months after season 6 to release it... this way they would have had more of the fleet ships in the wild first.... also they may have even sold a few more fleet ship to people that owned bugs... hahaha
Frankly if you don't like the bug don't worry... we are close to another doff pack promotions or something that will drop a small handful of them back into the system... Cryptic will use it to drive a weekend sale here soon enough.
We are most probably a month away from the end of the tholian box as well... the sales are starting to die down... anyone have any bets how good this next lock box Escort is going to be... lets be honest another escort is due up right.
You want an advantage, to compensate for your lack of ability. You're willing to shell out oodles of money to get it. What happens when cryptic does it again, and makes something more powerful than your ship. What are you going to then? Open your wallet again?
I'll ignore the rest of your rant and focus strictly on this one for now.
So I have a lack of ability do I? Under what data do you reason that statement with? Your complete lack of PvPing me in-game? Like Never? Even once?
Oh that is right, you think Attack Ship is an I-Win Button. Why? ? A lot of PvPers on this forum, spend 99% of their time in teams, this is highly limiting to the ability aspect, it forces you to rely on others whilst fighting a target. This is a fundamentally flawed way to balance a game, one must first know what it is like to fight those that do NOT do teams ( at least not all of the time ). Then they will know just what it is like.
Your clear lack of understanding on how Fleet starbase system works is clear. But let us ignore that for a second, you are going on a rant that "Oh Yeah well I worked hard to get it" comment. Now by that logic, you leveled up to get that RA ship, you felt like you worked hard for it? Should then, all ships be equal to the RA ship because you felt like you worked so hard to get it?
Now back to StarBases, you don't need to pump in endless resources, just enough to get 20k Fleet Credits, which if you aren't completely incompetent at this game, is an easy task to do. Then all you need is a fleet with the specific tier and permissions to buy from their store. Yeah, real challenging there, you don't even have to do anything for the fleet. ( Unless they require it, which will be rare )
Also I'll point out that most of everything that pops up in C-Store can also be bought off of the exchange. Including Ship modules, Attack Ships, Your dads TV, etc.
If you can't handle the heat, get out of the warp core.
Funny, when I spend twenty to sixty dollars for a game, I get a full product, that in most cases, I have a hard copy of. Not... you shell out sixty dollars for something that once the game dies and STO will die, you'll never get to use it again. If you want to be Stupid and spend hundreds of dollars for a Ship, go right ahead. But that doesn't mean you get to have in game advantages (or shouldn't) over someone that spent less than you because they had more sense than you. Or if you do feel that way, maybe you should have aimed abit higher than what you got since you don't feel it's superior enough.
Other people might say spending much money on a car is stupid. STO is a hobby and hey even gambling could be a hobby. So if someone has fun in opening lockboxes or buying ships, why the hell not. If you start selling your children it gets questionable but if you can afford it...
You should never try to tell people they are stupid for having fun their way.
The problem is something else. If you do pvp people often see it as a sport. And in sports you expect more or less equal chances due to equipment. If in boxing someone would put spikes on his gloves he would get an unfair advantage. Players want to measure their skills and not lose to a player with less skill because they could not afford some equipment.
Now that being said its still an MMO. There will always be differences, like some have MK XI and others MKXII. Small advantages are ok and if you have to pay to get them it is ok for me too. But the advantages shouldnt get too big. A little P2W is ok, it finances this game but I think the bug is a little too good. Not unbeatable but just a little too good.
The problem is something else. If you do pvp people often see it as a sport. And in sports you expect more or less equal chances due to equipment. If in boxing someone would put spikes on his gloves he would get an unfair advantage. Players want to measure their skills and not lose to a player with less skill because they could not afford some equipment.
Frankly that right there is sort of funny... there are different levels of sport clearly.
No one uses the best of the best equip in a weekend league... however I have played Hockey with guys that have spent $500 on a stick. Another that had a $700 pair of skates... I doubt they bought those because they felt they where equal to my $50 bauer skates and my old Canadian Tire Sherwood.
If you look at ANY professional sport... yes they spend thousands of dollars on equipment. How many of you golf and wouldn't like to upgrade your set of clubs ? In EVERY sport this is true... even in junk no one cares about, look at the olympics they barred swimmers from using there multi thousand dollar slick suites, ect ect ect.
Its Sport and people equip themselves the best they can.... HOWEVER... Wayne Gretzky would **** face with MY old sherwood... if Tiger woods was to show up at a golf course and pick up a set of rentals, do any of us think because we just picked up a new set of Callaways we would kick his backside ??? Come on gear is a nice bump but in any sport, people will look for that little extra bump... and frankly with or with out the cream always rises.
Originally Posted by aetam1
The problem is something else. If you do pvp people often see it as a sport. And in sports you expect more or less equal chances due to equipment. If in boxing someone would put spikes on his gloves he would get an unfair advantage. Players want to measure their skills and not lose to a player with less skill because they could not afford some equipment.
Even in sports, you don't do squat if you don't have the financial means. Money makes the world spin around man, lol.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Of course in every sport there are different lvls of equipment but for it to remain interesting it should be a measurement of skill not items. If you spend 500$ on a Hockey stick it will only help you if you know how to use it. It might provide an advantage but at a certain skill lvl I suppose all are using something like that. If you could win every game by simply getting a better stick no one would be interested in the sport.
I have no problem with people spending money to get the bug, or AMS, or things like that. I just feel the bug got a little too much love but it is not game breaking.
the balance in this game should be like the rules in any professional sport. every conceivable thing is regulated so no one has an unfair advantage. in game there should be parameters that can only be exceeded if you give something up. advantages with disadvantages. something different but not necessarily better. anything less creates a replacement for skill, but if the skilled use that replacement for skill, the fair chance to win is gone. the competitive aspect has been removed and the compotition is made meaningless. the only winning move is not to play.
to go with the beyond parameter offense and mobility, it should have a defensive penalty, thats even canon. say 25k hitpoints and a .83 shield mod. go ahead and have 5 tac consoles, 4 eng consoles and a 20 turn rate, you give something up for that. its still worth trying to get, its offensive ability is unparalleled, just being different and better in a few ways is enough for it to be desirable.
i frankly dont care if all you bug users are of the opinion that it is not game breaking, your definition of game breaking must be very different from mine. removing a fair chance in a situation were you are apposing another ship is game breaking as far as im concerned.
Honestly this entire conversation reminds me of when people used to ba ba ba BOP... is BS OP TRIBBLE. It can out turn anything. Of course after 4 or 5 more ships got released the BOP ain't so OP anymore right.
I will say this... they should have taken the recent bump it got with the 5th console and waited 1-2 months after season 6 to release it... this way they would have had more of the fleet ships in the wild first.... also they may have even sold a few more fleet ship to people that owned bugs... hahaha
Frankly if you don't like the bug don't worry... we are close to another doff pack promotions or something that will drop a small handful of them back into the system... Cryptic will use it to drive a weekend sale here soon enough.
We are most probably a month away from the end of the tholian box as well... the sales are starting to die down... anyone have any bets how good this next lock box Escort is going to be... lets be honest another escort is due up right.
there was frankly rightful cause for the bug to be called op, a LONG time ago now. back when sci could run amok, the long stuns during an alpha were death sentence, there was no distributing TT, shield striping was functional, all that kind of stuff. a bop cant do a quarter of the stuff it used to be able to do, and on top of that there is a federation only escort that can use all the bops best station combinations. claims that the bop was op ALWAYS being bs is an exaggeration. at least in this case the bop gave up a dramatic amount of survivability for its advantages. thanks to F2P and the unchecked power creep, any attempt to balance advantages with disadvantages has been abandon, and the bop is a sad relic of a better time.
Eh the Bug is no more op then any of the 200 cruisers that have been released that are better then the star cruiser.
Honestly you will find me in the ques in my bug... and the first time I get into a match that doesn't have a....
Bortas... Or Oddy.... Or Fleet Vorcha... Or Galor... Or dkora... Or Excel... Or Even a Dread
I'll put my bug in the garage... and get my old advanced escort out... hahaha
You can all look forward to seeing my bug for awhile I think.
Frankly having to fire at a cruiser for 20 min before it gets into any real trouble is far more game breaking then my bug having 7% more DPS then my advanced escort.... well at least till we unlock the Fleet Mvam then you can start complaining about that one.
Frankly having to fire at a cruiser for 20 min before it gets into any real trouble is far more game breaking then my bug having 7% more DPS then my advanced escort.
Except a cruiser is supposed to be a tank. It should have superior defense and hp. The tradeoff is that it's inferior dps against a skilled escort pilot won't put a scratch on it. Even if it does, the Escort Captain can just pop Omega and be out of combat range within 2 seconds. With no chance of a pursuit, the Escort heals up and the Cruiser renews it cooldowns for round 2.
Cruiser defense has since been nerfed into the ground since the days of pre-F2P. Tanking more than 1 skilled enemy isn't really possible anymore and healing a focus-fired teammate is frustrating at best, drawing the focus on yourself at worst.
Until New Maps and Objective-based PvP mechanics are added, this won't change and fighter ships will continue to rule the galaxy.
Superior Speed and Turnrate boosts defense immensely with no tradeoff. That's why I don't understand why everyone cries about a cruiser using FAW and it's "OP'd" accuracy.
Eh the Bug is no more op then any of the 200 cruisers that have been released that are better then the star cruiser.
Honestly you will find me in the ques in my bug... and the first time I get into a match that doesn't have a....
Bortas... Or Oddy.... Or Fleet Vorcha... Or Galor... Or dkora... Or Excel... Or Even a Dread
I'll put my bug in the garage... and get my old advanced escort out... hahaha
You can all look forward to seeing my bug for awhile I think.
Frankly having to fire at a cruiser for 20 min before it gets into any real trouble is far more game breaking then my bug having 7% more DPS then my advanced escort.... well at least till we unlock the Fleet Mvam then you can start complaining about that one.
Thing is you are doing far more than a mere 7 percent dps more. particularly if you have XII purps in the consoles.
Not only that but due to the superior speed and agility your time on target is increased by more than 7 percent against fast movers, since they will have a much harder time shaking you. The pivot point is also much more turn friendly than other escorts, particularly the poor Craptor, and MVAM/AE.
Your superior shield and hull mods also gaurantee durability, while having 2 universals to back you up, and Cmdr and Ltcmdr tacs.
Actually, I thought the Mirandas were the most-destroyed ship on screen? :P
You see annihilated Mirandas in First Contact (battle with the Borg Cube) and pretty much every other large-scale battle scene. They're cannon fodder. . .
Heh, no, even the Mirandas are like the USS Enterprise-E compared to Jem'Hadar bugships. Bugships were destroyed without hesitation on DS9. It seemed like they died by their groups of 3 on a regular basis whenever combat occurred. It was like lemmings jumping over a cliff, that's how frequently bugships were going kaput.
Yet here in STO, they are the most clearly superior ship in the game. Hands down.
Except a cruiser is supposed to be a tank. It should have superior defense and hp. The tradeoff is that it's inferior dps against a skilled escort pilot won't put a scratch on it. Even if it does, the Escort Captain can just pop Omega and be out of combat range within 2 seconds. With no chance of a pursuit, the Escort heals up and the Cruiser renews it cooldowns for round 2.
Cruiser defense has since been nerfed into the ground since the days of pre-F2P. Tanking more than 1 skilled enemy isn't really possible anymore and healing a focus-fired teammate is frustrating at best, drawing the focus on yourself at worst.
Frankly your doing something wrong in your build... I don't just fly escorts... and I don't just have tacs... My Engi Galor is going to cream most bug ships... if you are not designing your builds to put out some pew along with the "Tank" your supposed to have. (btw there is no such thing as a tank in STO PvP)... well then perhaps you need to reconsider your build and your piloting tactics.
With out support most (and I say most some players are better then others) escorts and bugs are no different still have issues attacking one well built cruiser.
Thing is you are doing far more than a mere 7 percent dps more. particularly if you have XII purps in the consoles.
Not only that but due to the superior speed and agility your time on target is increased by more than 7 percent against fast movers, since they will have a much harder time shaking you. The pivot point is also much more turn friendly than other escorts, particularly the poor Craptor, and MVAM/AE.
Well if I have 4 Purple MK XII consoles in my 4 console escort wth is the difference... yes its aprox a 7% increase in DPS adding the 5th unit.
Frankly I don't build my other escorts in the same way I loadout my bug... I never really had any issue keeping my guns on target 90% of the match in my other ships. Using the noodle on my shoulders helps a lot... I will agree the BUG ship has a more forgiving setup... its easier to correct an over steer ect.
What the bug does is enable middle of the road pilots to do quite a bit better. Those are the guys and gals the benefit most from the forgiving nature of having a the extra turn rate.
Frankly all the top tier escort guys I know... where still the top tier guys BEFORE the bug.
I think the bug won't seem nearly as powerful to everyone once they see a Fleet Defiant Decloak on someone... or once they see that Fleet MVAM tear someone a new one.
The bug does have the best specs yes. It is THE BEST escort in the game no doubt. Is it better to the point of being OP... I don't think so. Its better then what is currently out... and when we start seeing the 2 new fed fleet escorts... I am not honestly sure it is better. Lining up a fleet defiant alpha burst is going to be sick... and I can think of some wickedly evil things to do with that fleet advanced when it hits.
Of course the klink side does really have nothing to run with the big boys anymore... well unless you sent your klink toon a bug. I didn't think I would ever say something like this... but I hope the next lock box ship is a sweet new escort so I can keep my klink toons geared to compete cause Really I can't afford another bug.
Except a cruiser is supposed to be a tank. It should have superior defense and hp. The tradeoff is that it's inferior dps against a skilled escort pilot won't put a scratch on it. Even if it does, the Escort Captain can just pop Omega and be out of combat range within 2 seconds. With no chance of a pursuit, the Escort heals up and the Cruiser renews it cooldowns for round 2.
Cruiser defense has since been nerfed into the ground since the days of pre-F2P. Tanking more than 1 skilled enemy isn't really possible anymore and healing a focus-fired teammate is frustrating at best, drawing the focus on yourself at worst.
Until New Maps and Objective-based PvP mechanics are added, this won't change and fighter ships will continue to rule the galaxy.
Superior Speed and Turnrate boosts defense immensely with no tradeoff. That's why I don't understand why everyone cries about a cruiser using FAW and it's "OP'd" accuracy.
Actually, I've seen skilled cruiser pilots square off against 2-3 other skilled players and tank them to a standstill. I think you're underestimating the crunchiness a cruiser can have in the right hands. Usually a cruiser will go down if the player's timing is off and there's a gap in their buff defenses (usually the opportune time for me in my Hegh'ta to decloak and deliver a punishing alpha-strike with attack buffs activated). Even then, it doesn't always work, because some players can react impressively fast.
Of course, even the best tank can be defeated if enough ships are deploying a wide enough array of effective skills against it (warp plasma/theta radiation, delta/beta debuffs, etc). The nastiest sort of thing I've see is the subnucleonic beams, those can throw even skilled players off their game.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Except a cruiser is supposed to be a tank. It should have superior defense and hp. The tradeoff is that it's inferior dps against a skilled escort pilot won't put a scratch on it. Even if it does, the Escort Captain can just pop Omega and be out of combat range within 2 seconds. With no chance of a pursuit, the Escort heals up and the Cruiser renews it cooldowns for round 2.
Cruiser defense has since been nerfed into the ground since the days of pre-F2P. Tanking more than 1 skilled enemy isn't really possible anymore and healing a focus-fired teammate is frustrating at best, drawing the focus on yourself at worst.
Until New Maps and Objective-based PvP mechanics are added, this won't change and fighter ships will continue to rule the galaxy.
Superior Speed and Turnrate boosts defense immensely with no tradeoff. That's why I don't understand why everyone cries about a cruiser using FAW and it's "OP'd" accuracy.
Most legitimate PvPers would declare a loss if they left the battle field to heal up. Speaking strictly 1v1s here.
I've seen some cruisers tank so much that not even 3 high yield escort players could take it down ;p
Being a tank has no place in STO PvP... Sure, in PvE, if you can pull the aggro of the NPCs, you may be a useful tank. In PvP, any moderately skilled player will just ignore the tank and kill his teammates 15 times. And you can be the best tank in the whole world and contribute nothing to your team.
A cruiser is supposed to be a healer, AND deliver pressure-DPS. (Not spike-DPS for the kill, but sustained DPS that forces the enemies to burn a few heals now and then, to reduce the available heals for cross-healing) Ofc, when targeted, the cruiser should be hard to kill, but this is not really difficult to bake into the main role.
Sure it has. It is a durable ship that does enough sustainable damage to be a real threat, so it must be destroyed, which will take effort... and that buys time that the less durable ships need for recovering.
You don't do a lot of arena play, do you?
If you are a pickle in a pickle jar you know every pickle's different, sort of, but really they're all just pickles...
Comments
Ignoring the fact that Lockbox ships ( particularly this one ) take far more to get, and are infact very pricy, even over the exchange.
Ignoring the fact that Fleet Ships are always available, whereas lockbox ships are not.
Ignoring the fact that the Attack Ship wasn't even in a Lockbox last time, yet cost more than a lockbox, and was available for a far shorter time than any other lockbox ship. ( Excluding Winter Event )
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Furthermore ever bought a video game? Yes? How about a videogame console? Yes? How dare you shell out that kind of cash for virtual eyecandy.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Holly cow Mewi, you're living in a flight control tower? Lol. I bet that only the 3 monitor stand was a small fortune. Still, for this game, I think you'd better be with a 37-42 inch tv, but that's me...
A side note: the issue with spending money is not a problem in itself, but when only few people can afford it or are willing to spend, then the game goes to hell since those people that can afford will kick the butts of everybody else, so having a "slight" advantage is somewhat ok, but when this advantage gets more than slight, it becomes an issue.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
See above. The Tholian ships and the Galor didn't get to be OP. So why did the bug?
Fleet Ships again take ALOT of resources to get, often times you have to end up buying Doff Packs just to feed the damn missions. Meaning their cost is often, quite usually higher than 20 dollars before it is said and done. "always available" Yes, to people with fleets, fleets which Usually consist of more than one person, each dedicating no small amount of time to get better ships. Available, providing you grind for Week upon Week, upon Week to get it, over an entire guild. Vs... Oh I spent 110 cpoints looky a lockbox ship! wooo!
You want an advantage, to compensate for your lack of ability. You're willing to shell out oodles of money to get it. What happens when cryptic does it again, and makes something more powerful than your ship. What are you going to then? Open your wallet again?
Do you really think I care about your income level there champ? What you spent on your computer, I've put into my cars. Easily.
Funny, when I spend twenty to sixty dollars for a game, I get a full product, that in most cases, I have a hard copy of. Not... you shell out sixty dollars for something that once the game dies and STO will die, you'll never get to use it again. If you want to be Stupid and spend hundreds of dollars for a Ship, go right ahead. But that doesn't mean you get to have in game advantages (or shouldn't) over someone that spent less than you because they had more sense than you. Or if you do feel that way, maybe you should have aimed abit higher than what you got since you don't feel it's superior enough.
I will say this... they should have taken the recent bump it got with the 5th console and waited 1-2 months after season 6 to release it... this way they would have had more of the fleet ships in the wild first.... also they may have even sold a few more fleet ship to people that owned bugs... hahaha
Frankly if you don't like the bug don't worry... we are close to another doff pack promotions or something that will drop a small handful of them back into the system... Cryptic will use it to drive a weekend sale here soon enough.
We are most probably a month away from the end of the tholian box as well... the sales are starting to die down... anyone have any bets how good this next lock box Escort is going to be... lets be honest another escort is due up right.
I'll ignore the rest of your rant and focus strictly on this one for now.
So I have a lack of ability do I? Under what data do you reason that statement with? Your complete lack of PvPing me in-game? Like Never? Even once?
Oh that is right, you think Attack Ship is an I-Win Button. Why? ? A lot of PvPers on this forum, spend 99% of their time in teams, this is highly limiting to the ability aspect, it forces you to rely on others whilst fighting a target. This is a fundamentally flawed way to balance a game, one must first know what it is like to fight those that do NOT do teams ( at least not all of the time ). Then they will know just what it is like.
Now back to StarBases, you don't need to pump in endless resources, just enough to get 20k Fleet Credits, which if you aren't completely incompetent at this game, is an easy task to do. Then all you need is a fleet with the specific tier and permissions to buy from their store. Yeah, real challenging there, you don't even have to do anything for the fleet. ( Unless they require it, which will be rare )
Also I'll point out that most of everything that pops up in C-Store can also be bought off of the exchange. Including Ship modules, Attack Ships, Your dads TV, etc.
If you can't handle the heat, get out of the warp core.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Other people might say spending much money on a car is stupid. STO is a hobby and hey even gambling could be a hobby. So if someone has fun in opening lockboxes or buying ships, why the hell not. If you start selling your children it gets questionable but if you can afford it...
You should never try to tell people they are stupid for having fun their way.
The problem is something else. If you do pvp people often see it as a sport. And in sports you expect more or less equal chances due to equipment. If in boxing someone would put spikes on his gloves he would get an unfair advantage. Players want to measure their skills and not lose to a player with less skill because they could not afford some equipment.
Now that being said its still an MMO. There will always be differences, like some have MK XI and others MKXII. Small advantages are ok and if you have to pay to get them it is ok for me too. But the advantages shouldnt get too big. A little P2W is ok, it finances this game but I think the bug is a little too good. Not unbeatable but just a little too good.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Frankly that right there is sort of funny... there are different levels of sport clearly.
No one uses the best of the best equip in a weekend league... however I have played Hockey with guys that have spent $500 on a stick. Another that had a $700 pair of skates... I doubt they bought those because they felt they where equal to my $50 bauer skates and my old Canadian Tire Sherwood.
If you look at ANY professional sport... yes they spend thousands of dollars on equipment. How many of you golf and wouldn't like to upgrade your set of clubs ? In EVERY sport this is true... even in junk no one cares about, look at the olympics they barred swimmers from using there multi thousand dollar slick suites, ect ect ect.
Its Sport and people equip themselves the best they can.... HOWEVER... Wayne Gretzky would **** face with MY old sherwood... if Tiger woods was to show up at a golf course and pick up a set of rentals, do any of us think because we just picked up a new set of Callaways we would kick his backside ??? Come on gear is a nice bump but in any sport, people will look for that little extra bump... and frankly with or with out the cream always rises.
Even in sports, you don't do squat if you don't have the financial means. Money makes the world spin around man, lol.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
I have no problem with people spending money to get the bug, or AMS, or things like that. I just feel the bug got a little too much love but it is not game breaking.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
to go with the beyond parameter offense and mobility, it should have a defensive penalty, thats even canon. say 25k hitpoints and a .83 shield mod. go ahead and have 5 tac consoles, 4 eng consoles and a 20 turn rate, you give something up for that. its still worth trying to get, its offensive ability is unparalleled, just being different and better in a few ways is enough for it to be desirable.
i frankly dont care if all you bug users are of the opinion that it is not game breaking, your definition of game breaking must be very different from mine. removing a fair chance in a situation were you are apposing another ship is game breaking as far as im concerned.
there was frankly rightful cause for the bug to be called op, a LONG time ago now. back when sci could run amok, the long stuns during an alpha were death sentence, there was no distributing TT, shield striping was functional, all that kind of stuff. a bop cant do a quarter of the stuff it used to be able to do, and on top of that there is a federation only escort that can use all the bops best station combinations. claims that the bop was op ALWAYS being bs is an exaggeration. at least in this case the bop gave up a dramatic amount of survivability for its advantages. thanks to F2P and the unchecked power creep, any attempt to balance advantages with disadvantages has been abandon, and the bop is a sad relic of a better time.
A car can get you laid, is tangible, can retain value better and be resold well after it was ceased to be manufactured.
Being an STO packrat just means you spend more money to buy gold, use bots or grind more than others. Hardly anything to be proud of.
Probably the same kind of people who spend 1000+ on gear in Diablo 3.
Will retain value much better. Can actually Gain in value, with your investments, in addition to those other benefits.
Honestly you will find me in the ques in my bug... and the first time I get into a match that doesn't have a....
Bortas... Or Oddy.... Or Fleet Vorcha... Or Galor... Or dkora... Or Excel... Or Even a Dread
I'll put my bug in the garage... and get my old advanced escort out... hahaha
You can all look forward to seeing my bug for awhile I think.
Frankly having to fire at a cruiser for 20 min before it gets into any real trouble is far more game breaking then my bug having 7% more DPS then my advanced escort.... well at least till we unlock the Fleet Mvam then you can start complaining about that one.
Except a cruiser is supposed to be a tank. It should have superior defense and hp. The tradeoff is that it's inferior dps against a skilled escort pilot won't put a scratch on it. Even if it does, the Escort Captain can just pop Omega and be out of combat range within 2 seconds. With no chance of a pursuit, the Escort heals up and the Cruiser renews it cooldowns for round 2.
Cruiser defense has since been nerfed into the ground since the days of pre-F2P. Tanking more than 1 skilled enemy isn't really possible anymore and healing a focus-fired teammate is frustrating at best, drawing the focus on yourself at worst.
Until New Maps and Objective-based PvP mechanics are added, this won't change and fighter ships will continue to rule the galaxy.
Superior Speed and Turnrate boosts defense immensely with no tradeoff. That's why I don't understand why everyone cries about a cruiser using FAW and it's "OP'd" accuracy.
Thing is you are doing far more than a mere 7 percent dps more. particularly if you have XII purps in the consoles.
Not only that but due to the superior speed and agility your time on target is increased by more than 7 percent against fast movers, since they will have a much harder time shaking you. The pivot point is also much more turn friendly than other escorts, particularly the poor Craptor, and MVAM/AE.
Your superior shield and hull mods also gaurantee durability, while having 2 universals to back you up, and Cmdr and Ltcmdr tacs.
Lies, I'm old school
http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t132/mewimi/Screenshot054.jpg
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Heh, no, even the Mirandas are like the USS Enterprise-E compared to Jem'Hadar bugships. Bugships were destroyed without hesitation on DS9. It seemed like they died by their groups of 3 on a regular basis whenever combat occurred. It was like lemmings jumping over a cliff, that's how frequently bugships were going kaput.
Yet here in STO, they are the most clearly superior ship in the game. Hands down.
Frankly your doing something wrong in your build... I don't just fly escorts... and I don't just have tacs... My Engi Galor is going to cream most bug ships... if you are not designing your builds to put out some pew along with the "Tank" your supposed to have. (btw there is no such thing as a tank in STO PvP)... well then perhaps you need to reconsider your build and your piloting tactics.
With out support most (and I say most some players are better then others) escorts and bugs are no different still have issues attacking one well built cruiser.
Well if I have 4 Purple MK XII consoles in my 4 console escort wth is the difference... yes its aprox a 7% increase in DPS adding the 5th unit.
Frankly I don't build my other escorts in the same way I loadout my bug... I never really had any issue keeping my guns on target 90% of the match in my other ships. Using the noodle on my shoulders helps a lot... I will agree the BUG ship has a more forgiving setup... its easier to correct an over steer ect.
What the bug does is enable middle of the road pilots to do quite a bit better. Those are the guys and gals the benefit most from the forgiving nature of having a the extra turn rate.
Frankly all the top tier escort guys I know... where still the top tier guys BEFORE the bug.
I think the bug won't seem nearly as powerful to everyone once they see a Fleet Defiant Decloak on someone... or once they see that Fleet MVAM tear someone a new one.
The bug does have the best specs yes. It is THE BEST escort in the game no doubt. Is it better to the point of being OP... I don't think so. Its better then what is currently out... and when we start seeing the 2 new fed fleet escorts... I am not honestly sure it is better. Lining up a fleet defiant alpha burst is going to be sick... and I can think of some wickedly evil things to do with that fleet advanced when it hits.
Of course the klink side does really have nothing to run with the big boys anymore... well unless you sent your klink toon a bug. I didn't think I would ever say something like this... but I hope the next lock box ship is a sweet new escort so I can keep my klink toons geared to compete cause Really I can't afford another bug.
Actually, I've seen skilled cruiser pilots square off against 2-3 other skilled players and tank them to a standstill. I think you're underestimating the crunchiness a cruiser can have in the right hands. Usually a cruiser will go down if the player's timing is off and there's a gap in their buff defenses (usually the opportune time for me in my Hegh'ta to decloak and deliver a punishing alpha-strike with attack buffs activated). Even then, it doesn't always work, because some players can react impressively fast.
Of course, even the best tank can be defeated if enough ships are deploying a wide enough array of effective skills against it (warp plasma/theta radiation, delta/beta debuffs, etc). The nastiest sort of thing I've see is the subnucleonic beams, those can throw even skilled players off their game.
Most legitimate PvPers would declare a loss if they left the battle field to heal up. Speaking strictly 1v1s here.
I've seen some cruisers tank so much that not even 3 high yield escort players could take it down ;p
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
no...no....no....
Being a tank has no place in STO PvP... Sure, in PvE, if you can pull the aggro of the NPCs, you may be a useful tank. In PvP, any moderately skilled player will just ignore the tank and kill his teammates 15 times. And you can be the best tank in the whole world and contribute nothing to your team.
A cruiser is supposed to be a healer, AND deliver pressure-DPS. (Not spike-DPS for the kill, but sustained DPS that forces the enemies to burn a few heals now and then, to reduce the available heals for cross-healing) Ofc, when targeted, the cruiser should be hard to kill, but this is not really difficult to bake into the main role.
+ 10,000
Word !
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
You don't do a lot of arena play, do you?
He just does one vs one. Late at night he does 5v1.