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Jem'Hadar Attack Ship vs Fleet Patrol Escort
mewi
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Same exact items, keep in mind 1 less tactical console, and the fleet patrol can have an additional science console for increased tankage. Also the Alive Crew.
I expect a lockbox ship to be better than what is readily available. The constant statements of "Jem'Hadar Attackship is an I Win Button" is misleading. The fact that I can see, is a lot of high end PvPers have Attack Ships, thus giving additional credit to the ship rather than the pilot.
But opinions?
Same exact items, keep in mind 1 less tactical console, and the fleet patrol can have an additional science console for increased tankage. Also the Alive Crew.
I expect a lockbox ship to be better than what is readily available. The constant statements of "Jem'Hadar Attackship is an I Win Button" is misleading. The fact that I can see, is a lot of high end PvPers have Attack Ships, thus giving additional credit to the ship rather than the pilot.
But opinions?
Post edited by mewi on
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Comments
The turn is quite a bit better then the fleet, still not game breaking as some one suggest.
I would agree with you... I have been called a cheat in the defiant, mvam, and fleet escort. More often... cause in those ships people blame hax instead of lockbox hax. lol
ya, sure, on par, right. if anyone was in doubt the bug ship was an i win button, they should look at this picture, they would be convinced it was. also note how the number of crew does not effect passive repair rate. thanks for making that clear, i didnt think it did. so it really is only the % alive that maters, the number of crew you have really is worthless just like i thought! LOL!
Yes the dual uni is nice.... really in all my playing with it the best setup is still the "fleet" setup.
When we have 5 tac console MVAMs and Defiants running around it will be more interesting.
Talk about an exaggerated and nearly unreadable post.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
If the bug wasn't the best they wouldn't be sought after.
Also, frankly just look at that turn rate. It matches the patrol boat in every other aspect in durability. But is FAR more agile, worse yet it has better Inertia, and an impulse modifier. Which makes it all but impossible to keep up with one, without being in a much squishier MVAM or Defiant. But yet it's as Hard as a Patrol escort, coupled with a far more flexible boff layout.
If you put 2 pilots of equal skill against each other, but one has the bug and the other doesn't, the best you can hope for is to draw against a bug throwing every single trick in the book at it. You'll never actually beat a bug without one, if the other pilot is as good as you are, it's simply too agile, and too durable.
thats why i qualified that with for the lulz. a bug without some science is gonna regret it.
fleet defiant and fleet MVAM escorts running around would only make me less interested in playing :mad:
really? talk about being in denial.
the numbers tell other wise. it is categorically better then any other escort. its then up to the user to suck in it, or excel. a top tier bug user has no equal.
all this.
Bug ship, the best example of P2W EVER.
www.divisionhispana.com
Ya if you fill them with 2 sci you end up with to little engi tank....
If you fill them with engi you end up really missing those sci heals.
The logical setup is patrol setup... ya the turn and extra speed are nothing to disregard for sure... it really is nice.
I would think most fleets are not very far off unlocking the other 2 fleet version escorts. So we will be seeing them run around shortly.
Honestly saying the fleet version Advanced escort is going to be more squishy then the BUG is crazy time.... I think that ship will be at least on par with the bug... and in the right hands should be a BUG hunter.
That isn't true, any pilot can slipup and make the wrong move at the wrong time and end up with a loss.
The Attack Ship does not give enough advantage to guarantee a win or even a tie.
Let us also remember that this is a lockbox ship, and not a standard $20 ship that is always there.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
yes, since the stats for the fleet mvam escort were released, it looks like another bug tier ship. was PISSED when i read about the 5 tac console, on yet another ship. :mad: does a separated section on the MVAM escort turn on par with the bug? i imagine its damn close, or a bit beter.
the fleet defient with a cloak would technically be the best alpha striker, with the decloak damage bonus on top of the 5 consoles. so it can best the bug for initial damage, wile having a movement penalty. as if 17 base can be considered a penalty :rolleyes:
Well said, and is nice to see all the Bug users defending their I Win button.
Sure, but alaso loss a lot of hull for that.. what does the Bug loss for that insane turn rate?
Division Hispana
www.divisionhispana.com
There is nothing to defend. I win button? Nope, the numbers speak for themselves and that is not an I win Button.
Edit: Ill start using Fleet Patrol Escort, then people will be declaring my Fleet Patrol Escort an I Win Button.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Bug ships have been quantitatively better than all other escorts since they were released. Same w/most other lotto ships and soon to be fleet ships. It's why I don't even bother taking off Plas Leech anymore which imo has been the most OP console if for no other reason than the 20+ power gain.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
There are no real I WIN Buttons in this game, except the launch Siphon Drone maybe.
That aside the Bug is simply a superior ship. As you have shown both ships have about equal defense, but the Bug is more maneuverable. Therefore he will have it easier to point his guns at an enemy or just avoid ending up in an enemy firing arc. Also the tac console is more useful than another sci and he still has more options concerning the Boff layout.
So do not worry, your lockbox ship IS better than everything readily available.
If you look at a duel between escorts it is a battle of turn rates and piloting skills. You try to stay out of your enemys firing arc while you keep you guns pointed at him. So the Bug already got the advantage. Now what do you want in you addition aci slot of the patrol escort? More shield cap? While it will help against burst in a prolonged fight it wont do much. The 5th tac console on the other hand... now that hurts.
Now if you look at a team setting the turn advantage might not be that important but the 5th tac console simply makes the bug superior in his role as dmg dealer. The additional sci console of the patrol escort might be a nice bonus but it wont help you kill stuff and you are tanky enough as it is so its not that much of an advantage.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
It's superior? Yes
iWin? Hell no.
How do I know? I own one.
Shield cap? No, Emitter Array >
YOu assume there is only one way to fight, then again the additional turn can be made up VIA consoles without any significant drop in battle effectiveness.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Someone pass the cheese to go with the wine/whine.
Also, it's a bit late to complain about it. Lockbox ships are here to stay, so complaining about a ship that arrived in December 2011 is pointless. What do you hope to achieve? Do you really think Cryptic will all of a sudden nerf it after almost a year of it being out? So far, the only thing they've done about it is buff it to compensate for the next level of ships - fleet ships. Catch up, people!
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
You in a cruiser. Lol. I gotta see that.
@mewi: haven't tried a patrol yet, but I can tell you when I played with the bug ship for few weeks, I felt I'm back in the bop, but dealing more damage and surviving better. I also had a mkxii purple turn console in it for more fun, I can tell you that ships in evasives flying 90 degrees left or right were so easy to turn after (power to engine was 55 with all bonuses). You can continue firing in them and with an omega, even follow most and keep within firing range. That ship is either overpowered, either superior to any escort, take it as you want it. Not an iwin button definitely, but brings a fair ammount of advantage to the table. Put some lolarons on it and you will love that little sh it. Curiousity, have you tried a bug?
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
The superior escort in the hands of a superior pilot vs an average pilot in an average ship...
<<
>>
Who are we kidding here?
Still had a great time. XD
I agree 1000%, lol, if there is something I hate about bug, that is it, ugly as a TRIBBLE...
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
like i said, and you quoted, it is categorically better then any other escort. its then up to the user to suck in it, or excel. a top tier bug user has no equal.
i can, and have done the same in cruisers. the bug ship deals so much damage because its so talky, and with its turn rate it basically has 100% uptime on its cannons fireing at something. other ships deal less damage because they simply cant match that up time.
oh HEEEEEEEEEEEEEL no. if some on gave me one, i would trash it, just so 1 less exists. its not my policy to pretend something isn't op just because i own or use it. plus i only really have fun in cruisers anymore for some reason.
at release they had raptor hull and fed escort shields hitpoints, which was overpowered, a normal 4 tactical consoles but also 4 engineering consoles, which was overpowered. and a BOP turn rate, which was overpowered.
it was overpowered, but it wasn't game breaking, yet. then the fleet ships came along and geko made the worst decision he ever made at his time working at cryptic, he buffed it. he buffed the hell out of it. now it has cruiser hit points and shield mod, and a 5th tac console. now its game breaking, well flow bugs ruin every pub match they are a part of by haveing cruiser durability, escort damage and evasion, and bop maneuverability. they can be handled in premades, but theres certanly nothing beter to bring if you bring any escort to one.
Well I am unsure how much the emitter array will help since you wont have that many shield heals but anyway, I still say the tac console is far more helpful.
As for the turnrate, the problem is the Bug can slot those consoles too. And with a higher base turn a % increase in turn console will actually help the bug even more.
As I said the Bug is no I Win. It simply is a very good ship that is unrivaled so far and the biggest problem is the 5th tac console in my opinion. It simply has more dmg than any other escort (at least until feds get their tier 3/4 shipyards) and does not sacrifice anything for it.
Now if you look at klingon escorts its a much sadder story.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Really man jump in one... and compare it to the other escorts... the turn is nice yes... but its really not much more powerful then the other escorts.
I have been known to fly in matches with pretty good bug ships... and when I fly my other escort numbers its not like there doubling my dmg... the guys I fly with that are around my skill level... do right around the same dmg. That 5th console is a light advantage... but its no where close to an IWIN.... and smart piloting trumps turn rate every time.
Is it a better escort... YES... like Tick was saying though a bit late to be complaining about it now. Its not going anywhere... and frankly ALL but one of the New level of fed escorts sport 5 tac consoles... so ya... there is no going back on that one.... Makes me wonder why the heck klink ships don't have any 5 console escort options.
Better =/= iWin
Anything a bug can have 100% arc on, any other escort can do the same, to be fair.
If you're claiming a bug has 100% uptime of dhc's on another escort is poppycock, I'm sorry to say. Unless the second escort is trying very hard to suck.
Well flown anything owns a pug match, what's your point? Chances are that player in a bug would be achieving a similar level of pwn in a fleet escort too.
This kinda reinforces my point that people are jealous until they get one. You're telling me you wouldn't even try to sell it for half a billion ECs?
Thanks for the STO History lesson.
A question for you: do you plan on using the new fleet ships?
@f4tamy | Sad Pandas
The way I see it, flying the bug is like running p2w consoles. Like the p2w consoles, its certainly true that lockbox ship are here to stay and nothing will prevent you from using one. Just don't try and pretend they don't offer the advantages that they do or expect people not to call you out on it. There is a reason they command the prices you see them for on the exchange and its not because RPers like the looks so much.
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
I suspect that you don't have a big ship?
If it's 'certainly true that the lockbox ship are here to stay,' then why not just learn to live with the fact that some people don't have one, some people do...find a way to get rid of the Bug Ship advantages through aspects of your build...then it will be an even playing field for you
Well if you are going to go by that logic then the following ships are also P2W and are pure cheese to run....
The List of ships that follows.... ARE ALL P2W... and I will for now on call anyone I see flying them nooby noob cakes. Don't even pretend these arn't P2W there here to stay so suck it up nancy.
? Fl. Exploration Retrofit
? Fl. Star Cruiser
? Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
? Fl. Heavy Cruiser Retrofit
? FL Odyssey
? Exploration Retrofit
? Dreadnought
? Assault Refit
? Odyssey Operations
? Odyssey Science
? Odyssey Tactical
? Mirror Assault
? Mirror Star
? Advanced Heavy Retrofit
? Escort Retrofit
? Fl. Escort Retrofit
? Aquarius Destroyer
? Fl. Aquarius Destroyer
? Fl. Advanced Escort
? Fl. Patrol Escort
? Fl. Tactical Escort Retrofit
? Fl. Heavy Escort Carrier
? Tactical Retrofit
? Multi-Vector Advanced
? Heavy Carrier
? Science Retrofit
? Fl. Science Retrofit
? Research Retrofit
? Fl. Research Retrofit
? Fl. Reconnaissance
? Fl. Deep Space
? Fl. Advanced Research Retrofit
? Fl. Long Range Retrofit
? Long Range Retrofit
? Atrox Carrier
? Advanced Research Retrofit
? D'Kyr
? Fl. Ning'tao Retrofit
? Hoh'SuS
? Fl. Hoh'SuS
? B'rel Retrofit
? Fl. Qin
? Somraw Retrofit
? Fl. Somraw Retrofit
? K't'Inga Retrofit
? Fl. K't'Inga Retrofit
? Fl. Tor'Kaht Retrofit
? Fleet Negh'Var
? Bortas
? Bortasqu' Command
? Bortasqu' Tactical
? Bortasqu' War
? Vor'cha Retrofit
? Mirror Vor'cha
? Scourge Destroyer Retrofit
? Fl. Scourge Destroyer Retrofit
? Corsair Flight Deck Cruiser Retrofit
? Fl. Corsair Flight Deck Cruiser Retrofit
? Fl. Vo'quv Carrier
? Guramba Siege Destroyer
? Kar'Fi Battle Cruiser
? Varanus Fleet Support Vessel
? Marauder Flight-Deck Cruiser
? Jem'Hadar Attack Ship
? Cardassian Galor Class Cruiser
? Ferengi D'K