So its basically the same, but has ~30% better turn and an extra tac console while only being marginally better in all other stats... good thing maneuvering and damage don't make much difference for an escort. :rolleyes:
The way I see it, flying the bug is like running p2w consoles. Like the p2w consoles, its certainly true that lockbox ship are here to stay and nothing will prevent you from using one. Just don't try and pretend they don't offer the advantages that they do or expect people not to call you out on it. There is a reason they command the prices you see them for on the exchange and its not because RPers like the looks so much.
Excuse me why I go fly around in my P2W ship that I bought for 120mil, and my P2W weapons and consoles that I bought for 300mil, and my P2W DOFFs that I bought for 160mil
I think people are far overvaluing that 5th tac slot... nice but not game breaking...
Really man jump in one... and compare it to the other escorts... the turn is nice yes... but its really not much more powerful then the other escorts.
I have been known to fly in matches with pretty good bug ships... and when I fly my other escort numbers its not like there doubling my dmg... the guys I fly with that are around my skill level... do right around the same dmg. That 5th console is a light advantage... but its no where close to an IWIN.... and smart piloting trumps turn rate every time.
Is it a better escort... YES... like Tick was saying though a bit late to be complaining about it now. Its not going anywhere... and frankly ALL but one of the New level of fed escorts sport 5 tac consoles... so ya... there is no going back on that one.... Makes me wonder why the heck klink ships don't have any 5 console escort options.
ive been complaining about it loudly since last december lol, doing it before it was cool. not counting the bug, in about 90% of my duels with escorts in any of the cruisers i fly, i can beat them, 80% of the time its not even close. the bug is different, and ive taken on more then i can count to get a true feel for them so i can be confident what i say about them is accurate. there is a CLEAR difference between bug duels, and with any other escort, in my experience participating in hundreds of these duels.
now assuming its a talented user, an alpha strike from them cant be effectively countered by yourself unless you want to blow rsp and guarantee a very short fight. you will take significant hull damage from them, and its not damage you can come back from. in anything less maneuverable then a defiant, the bug can keep pointed on them effortlessly, and can speed tank like no other with its better than other escort impulse mod. if its reversing, it can point at you in a second, there only way to stand a chance against a skilled user in one is snares, multiple snares. PTW consoles, tractor beams, plasma, anything but more then 1. but most carry PH and 2 omegas because they know this is their only exploitable weakness. those that don't carry enough of those i can beat. and, like mav's video showed, the only other way to to go toe to toe with a bug is to do it in a ship that is not at a maneuverability disadvantage, and then out fly it. keeping its cannon uptime low is your only chance.
turn rate is absolutely everything to a DHC user, he who has the most wins, thats why raptors suck so bad. just like with accuracy, if you cant hit you cant damage. i call out the 5th console a lot, but it really is the whole pacage that makes it as deadly as it is. the problem with the 5th console is that its the straw that breaks TT's back and allows it to deal so much hull damage when you would other wise be protected. its not the additional general dps it provides thats the problem. add a decloak buff with the fleet defient and a grow more worried. a LTC science station power and 5 tac consoles has the potential to be scarey too.
who needs balance right? why is better ok? for the 3rd time now, a better ship with a good user will beat a good ship with a good user. so i win it is.
Anything a bug can have 100% arc on, any other escort can do the same, to be fair.
If you're claiming a bug has 100% uptime of dhc's on another escort is poppycock, I'm sorry to say. Unless the second escort is trying very hard to suck.
i said 100% up time on something, theres more then just other escorts. and no, other escorts really cant keep uptime like it can.
Well flown anything owns a pug match, what's your point? Chances are that player in a bug would be achieving a similar level of pwn in a fleet escort too.
less powerful alphas and lower on target up time. it will be as durable though. thats just a mathematical certainty.
This kinda reinforces my point that people are jealous until they get one. You're telling me you wouldn't even try to sell it for half a billion ECs?
tell you what, give me a half a billion EC, and i'll stay the execution i do have absolutely no interest in using one though. it could be even more op and i still wouldn't want to. id prefer playing within what i consider balanced.
A question for you: do you plan on using the new fleet ships?
yep. got fleet ktinga and fleet vorcha. doubt i'd get any others. the fleet vorcha splits the difference between an escort and cruiser, doing the job ether is supposed to do not as well. but im a cruiser guy so its fun, thats why i like it. the ktinga i think is the best and most versatile cruiser in the game. it has the full suite of cruiser station abilities and absolutely awesome maneuverability. if i had to call ether of these ships op, id call the ktinga it. i also recently discovered that based on its per facing shield hitpoints that it has a shield mod of 1.07, its the same for other "inferior" fleet ships. the vorcha i can confirm has 1.1.
the fleet ships are hardly pay to win, just pay a whole lot. 10% better hitpoints is not enough to overcome any skill deficiency, and 1 more console, be it dump or useful, can be nice but hardly critical. the fleet ships arent even odyssey level, or above that at bug level.
Now if you look at klingon escorts its a much sadder story.
This. Exactly this. I fly a BoP while PvPing, and I stay well away from bugs because I know I'm well out-classed. It WILL shred through my Tactical Team'd shields like tissue paper. The raptor. . .don't even get me started. The bug can and will fly circles around the raptor, no matter how much you try to boost turning ability. It will also out-DPS at the same time.
Funny how some Feddies like to complain about their escorts getting left behind by advances and by the bug, but rarely seem to care that KDF escort-level ships are in an even worse boat in many respects. These are the ships that are supposed to be more combat-oriented than the Federation ships, too!
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Hilarious to see people defend the Jem'Hadar bug ship as not op. The raw stats say otherwise, which is in an entirely different league of their own.
The most fragile, most oftenly destroyed ship on screen in all Star Trek-dom, is the most powerful ship in STO. Then again, this is the same game that dictates that the ancient Excelsior-class is superior to the later developed Galaxy-class. Even more powerful than the later developed and cutting edge advanced Sovereign-class.
Well if you are going to go by that logic then the following ships are also P2W and are pure cheese to run....
The List of ships that follows.... ARE ALL P2W... and I will for now on call anyone I see flying them nooby noob cakes. Don't even pretend these arn't P2W there here to stay so suck it up nancy.
dont forget that ALL ships now require dilithium to buy except the free type 8 shuttle (you get one free from a mission) and your inital miranda.... so all ships are "pay 2 win" in my eyes because the only way to get any ship is with dilithium. no otherway anymore.
People have complained about P2W since the 1st C-Store ship. Then more complained w/they ramped up C-Store ship production when the MVAE etc rolled out that holiday season. More complained w/+1 sub tier 5 ships and massive console rollouts. All was prior to F2P. A dev even admitted the initial ships were designed to be better despite the company claims to the opposite when they were 1st released. People have noticed the build in advantages of most of the lotto ships and complained again (since now it's chance based and encourages gambling).
As far as balance goes those who have complained have been correct all along and continue to be so. But, Cryptic has never cared so there's little point asside from creating player gentleman agreements in premade matches/tourneys. As I mentioned before I used to not use plas leech unless others brought their P2W consoles. But, I don't care anymore. Ships, Doffs, Consoles, Boffs are all out of balance.
Still, if Cryptic were to ever can its EP D.S. then perhaps PvP will get the attention it deserves and balance will be important. Currently, they won't even tag on fleet rewards to dilithium PvP rewards. They are trying to kill PvP, they will continue to release broken TRIBBLE to do so.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
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C&H Fed banter
People have complained about P2W since the 1st C-Store ship. Then more complained w/they ramped up C-Store ship production when the MVAE etc rolled out that holiday season. More complained w/+1 sub tier 5 ships and massive console rollouts. All was prior to F2P. A dev even admitted the initial ships were designed to be better despite the company claims to the opposite when they were 1st released. People have noticed the build in advantages of most of the lotto ships and complained again (since now it's chance based and encourages gambling).
As far as balance goes those who have complained have been correct all along and continue to be so. But, Cryptic has never cared so there's little point asside from creating player gentleman agreements in premade matches/tourneys. As I mentioned before I used to not use plas leech unless others brought their P2W consoles. But, I don't care anymore. Ships, Doffs, Consoles, Boffs are all out of balance.
Still, if Cryptic were to ever can its EP D.S. then perhaps PvP will get the attention it deserves and balance will be important. Currently, they won't even tag on fleet rewards to dilithium PvP rewards. They are trying to kill PvP, they will continue to release broken TRIBBLE to do so.
i feel the same way, i can basically deal with all of it. a lot of the stuff is low level and doesnt mater, the rest at level cap cant make up for skill, mostly. but even so, the bug is beyond the pale, in the realm of absurdity, overpowered. it is not ok. in every single stat category it is better then every other thing.
I'd have to agree with what Husanak is saying about the Bug ship. It is good but it is not as OP as many who don't fly one think it is. I'd say the advantage in turning the Bug has over most fed escorts is much smaller then the turning difference between a Raptor and those same fed escorts for example. The extra tac console is relatively new to the bug and was added in response to the new 5 tac console fed escorts which will be showing up soon enough.
There isnt going to be a difference in firepower once those ships show up and the BO layout is really going to end up being the same or very similar. Sure you might have the option of going 2x engineer or 2x science but why would you? It honestly would be a pretty stupid build. So in the end you are left with a minor difference in turning. Again, If anyone should be complaining it should be the KDF escort pilots as they have almost no viable options to choose from. The new Raptor(s) turns like ****, shield modifier is laughable, and has only 4 tac consoles.
At least fedside has viable escort options to choose from and some nasty new fleet refits. KDF side? Well let's just say they are F****D.
Not to be on anybody's side, but first time I flew the bug was a pve fleet action, to get used to it. Everything in front of cannons was dead in seconds. Then I took it to few pvp pugs, same fate, everything died in secs (while fully buffed). I even happened to be in a good kling pug against a premade, I ended up having the best dps, and keep in mind that I'm not a good escort pilot considering that past months I played the fat butted bortasqu. I tend to oversteer a lot, lol. Now imagine what blackjack or crimson or Husanak or cptH or yoda or aytanhi or you name that great escort pilot can do with it. I looked at the difference between 4 tac consoles and 5. I had mkxi purple tac consoles and dhc mkxi accx3. I don't remember exactly, but with apa, gdf @100%, tt1 and apo1, I had something like 150-250 extra damage per shot. Also not sure if the damage is energy damage (lolaron, disruptor) or just dps. Maybe a bug pilot could kindly take a quick look, I was too lazy to go to shipyard to switch back to the bug just for stats. Anyways, add that there are few shots a sec, in 10 secs you could rack few thousands that could make the difference between 90% hull and respawn. So maybe not an iwin "device" like siphons but definitely a big advantage in the right hands.
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Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
A couple of people have pointed out the synergy of the Fleet Patrol Escort and Attack Ships. The Bug ship captains I've played against have all used a Fleet Patrol BOF layout, as husanakx suggested as being the logical setup. In a PVP setting I couldn't imagine too many people deviating from this proscribed setup and then generally it would be in specific premade instances.
So with that conclusion made you are comparing like with like, though the attack ship has the edge in raw turning which is what PVPers tend to salivate or grind their teeth over. The hull and shield strength doesn't play into the equation for me given the style of play most PVP matches take (I.E. 4-5 ships targeting 1 opponent ship; in these cases a few thousand hull points aren't going to save you, nor your turning prowess, but that extend shield and heals from your buddies might).
Let's face it though if you both know what you're doing 1v1 = stalemate unless you're willing to hang around for a very protracted fight. Doesn't matter what you're flying (T4+), unless of course you get a mother load of crit luck or are cooking the books with a impenetrable M.A.C.O. shield, nasty power drones etc.
Attack ships don't kill people, people kill people.
Hilarious to see people defend the Jem'Hadar bug ship as not op. The raw stats say otherwise, which is in an entirely different league of their own.
The most fragile, most oftenly destroyed ship on screen in all Star Trek-dom, is the most powerful ship in STO. Then again, this is the same game that dictates that the ancient Excelsior-class is superior to the later developed Galaxy-class. Even more powerful than the later developed and cutting edge advanced Sovereign-class.
Actually, I thought the Mirandas were the most-destroyed ship on screen? :P
You see annihilated Mirandas in First Contact (battle with the Borg Cube) and pretty much every other large-scale battle scene. They're cannon fodder. . .
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
A couple of people have pointed out the synergy of the Fleet Patrol Escort and Attack Ships. The Bug ship captains I've played against have all used a Fleet Patrol BOF layout, as husanakx suggested as being the logical setup. In a PVP setting I couldn't imagine too many people deviating from this proscribed setup and then generally it would be in specific premade instances.
So with that conclusion made you are comparing like with like, though the attack ship has the edge in raw turning which is what PVPers tend to salivate or grind their teeth over. The hull and shield strength doesn't play into the equation for me given the style of play most PVP matches take (I.E. 4-5 ships targeting 1 opponent ship; in these cases a few thousand hull points aren't going to save you, nor your turning prowess, but that extend shield and heals from your buddies might).
Let's face it though if you both know what you're doing 1v1 = stalemate unless you're willing to hang around for a very protracted fight. Doesn't matter what you're flying (T4+), unless of course you get a mother load of crit luck or are cooking the books with a impenetrable M.A.C.O. shield, nasty power drones etc.
Attack ships don't kill people, people kill people.
Well my favorite part is the endless stream of PvPers ( mostly BoPs ) saying the reason why I tank them is because of my Attack Ship, despite the obvious that I can tank ( if not more ) in a Fleet Patrol Escort lol.
As far as the stats go, the clearly prove that the BUG is much stronger. This is especially true in a 1v1 dogfight, where turnrate is the difference between pointing 4 or 0 DHCs at your target.
relax all guys, at the end its all about skill, and that 5th tac console really doesnt do much. Well, i didnt notice much anyway!
Hmm... on my Bortas, I can really feel the difference...
One more console should be about 7% more damage. In a situation where you have just enough DPS to break the shields and nothing more, an extra 7% will melt the hull as well.
As far as the stats go, the clearly prove that the BUG is much stronger. This is especially true in a 1v1 dogfight, where turnrate is the difference between pointing 4 or 0 DHCs at your target.
Hmm... on my Bortas, I can really feel the difference...
One more console should be about 7% more damage. In a situation where you have just enough DPS to break the shields and nothing more, an extra 7% will melt the hull as well.
No one is arguing that the Attack Ship isn't stronger. What we are arguing is that things are being blown out of proportion.
"Much stronger" is also relatively exaggerated, the Attack Ship can turn faster. But the Fleet Patrol can out tank it. While turn rate may be excellent for aiming DHCs, there are other ways to kill people and other factors that can be accounted for.
Additional Tact Console also feels greatly exaggerated also.
A turn rate of 38? Are you using the advanced fleet engines with triple turn and single speed modifier? As soon as elite fleet stuff comes out, I guess it's no longer necessary to grind STF gear.
"Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
Well, that earlier post seems to have struck a nerve with some of the bug crowd, the truth hurts and all that. No need to be so defensive though, no one is going to take your bugs away. While the bug isn't an iWin button, things like leech, AMS, and even siphon drones aren't iWin buttons either. In the end it's a game so play it whatever way is fun for you and if that means hoping in a bug to play on easy mode, that's fine too.
Also, claiming that the fleet patrol escort can out tank the bug when your own stats show otherwise is just silly.
_________________________ TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz- Svarog | Veles | et al.
i have the JHAS and i have to say, its quite powerful (depending on your loadout) but it has one big problem. only once science console..
Dont give them ideas.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Face it, the bug is grossely overpowered. It's become a crutch for some PvPers, boosting their effectiveness beyond what their skills would allow in any other ship (akin to those Armitage captains who feel they have to use Danubes).
It has the speed, turnrate (actually no, it has a better turnrate) and offensive capabilities of a fleet tactical escort and the tanking capabilities of a fleet patrol escort. It can both tank via it's speed like a fleet tactical escort AND tank via engineering powers like a fleet patrol escort at the same time.
It's super fast, super tanky and super damage dealing.
who cares about balance when you can't stop laughing as you play, everything I point it at dies, the only time it's pushed hard is against another bug (assuming it's set up right) and those battles are epic.
I sometimes feel that way when flying my BoP, usually when I'm unleashed upon less-skilled/experienced feddies. I'm in a friggin ship that has only 3 tac consoles and is fragile in overall, and feddies are crumpling beneath my alpha-strike ambushes. It's glorious. It's too bad that it's quite difficult to do the same with players at your skill level, what with the BoP and raptors being outclassed.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
You know, the phrase "Over Powered" implies that it is wrong and should be nerfed. It is an extremely rare lockbox ship, for many the most desirable ship in the game and hence it's need to have that something extra. If it is indeed over powered then it is working as intended otherwise who'd want it except a few space faring entomologists!
The Tholian ships would like a word with you.
They aren't better than the Fleet ships either, and yet people looove them some Orbweavers and Recluses. (Infact Recluse pets are some of the worst options overall)
The ship being unique but on par with fleet ships is good enough to make them desirable. Here's the thing, Fleet Ships are Ground for, weeks, if not months in the making to get them. A lockbox ship is something you can get on the first or second try in less than five minutes. Fleet ships also cost, on average 20 USD a pop.
So tell me, exactly why should the bug be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a fleet ship again? "I spent hundreds to get mine!" And you made that choice. If you're dumb enough to shell out that kind of cash for something you can't even hold in your hand, you have issues you need to work through.
They aren't better than the Fleet ships either, and yet people looove them some Orbweavers and Recluses. (Infact Recluse pets are some of the worst options overall)
The ship being unique but on par with fleet ships is good enough to make them desirable. Here's the thing, Fleet Ships are Ground for, weeks, if not months in the making to get them. A lockbox ship is something you can get on the first or second try in less than five minutes. Fleet ships also cost, on average 20 USD a pop.
Ignoring the fact that Lockbox ships ( particularly this one ) take far more to get, and are infact very pricy, even over the exchange.
Ignoring the fact that Fleet Ships are always available, whereas lockbox ships are not.
Ignoring the fact that the Attack Ship wasn't even in a Lockbox last time, yet cost more than a lockbox, and was available for a far shorter time than any other lockbox ship. ( Excluding Winter Event )
So tell me, exactly why should the bug be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a fleet ship again? "I spent hundreds to get mine!" And you made that choice. If you're dumb enough to shell out that kind of cash for something you can't even hold in your hand, you have issues you need to work through.
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Furthermore ever bought a video game? Yes? How about a videogame console? Yes? How dare you shell out that kind of cash for virtual eyecandy.
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Holly cow Mewi, you're living in a flight control tower? Lol. I bet that only the 3 monitor stand was a small fortune. Still, for this game, I think you'd better be with a 37-42 inch tv, but that's me...
A side note: the issue with spending money is not a problem in itself, but when only few people can afford it or are willing to spend, then the game goes to hell since those people that can afford will kick the butts of everybody else, so having a "slight" advantage is somewhat ok, but when this advantage gets more than slight, it becomes an issue.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Ignoring the fact that Lockbox ships ( particularly this one ) take far more to get, and are infact very pricy, even over the exchange.
Ignoring the fact that Fleet Ships are always available, whereas lockbox ships are not.
Ignoring the fact that the Attack Ship wasn't even in a Lockbox last time, yet cost more than a lockbox, and was available for a far shorter time than any other lockbox ship. ( Excluding Winter Event )
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Furthermore ever bought a video game? Yes? How about a videogame console? Yes? How dare you shell out that kind of cash for virtual eyecandy.
See above. The Tholian ships and the Galor didn't get to be OP. So why did the bug?
Fleet Ships again take ALOT of resources to get, often times you have to end up buying Doff Packs just to feed the damn missions. Meaning their cost is often, quite usually higher than 20 dollars before it is said and done. "always available" Yes, to people with fleets, fleets which Usually consist of more than one person, each dedicating no small amount of time to get better ships. Available, providing you grind for Week upon Week, upon Week to get it, over an entire guild. Vs... Oh I spent 110 cpoints looky a lockbox ship! wooo!
You want an advantage, to compensate for your lack of ability. You're willing to shell out oodles of money to get it. What happens when cryptic does it again, and makes something more powerful than your ship. What are you going to then? Open your wallet again?
Do you really think I care about your income level there champ? What you spent on your computer, I've put into my cars. Easily.
Funny, when I spend twenty to sixty dollars for a game, I get a full product, that in most cases, I have a hard copy of. Not... you shell out sixty dollars for something that once the game dies and STO will die, you'll never get to use it again. If you want to be Stupid and spend hundreds of dollars for a Ship, go right ahead. But that doesn't mean you get to have in game advantages (or shouldn't) over someone that spent less than you because they had more sense than you. Or if you do feel that way, maybe you should have aimed abit higher than what you got since you don't feel it's superior enough.
Bug ship was already op before they added a 5th tac console, they should get rid of that extra tac console, no need for that. It still would have advantages of maneuverability, hull and universal slots over 5 tac console fleet ships. If they really insist on giving the bug ship a extra console it should be a sci console. Only real counter to it is Armitage with Danubes to stop its insane maneuverability.
Comments
Excuse me why I go fly around in my P2W ship that I bought for 120mil, and my P2W weapons and consoles that I bought for 300mil, and my P2W DOFFs that I bought for 160mil
Who doesn't pay to win ? A PvE only player?
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
ive been complaining about it loudly since last december lol, doing it before it was cool. not counting the bug, in about 90% of my duels with escorts in any of the cruisers i fly, i can beat them, 80% of the time its not even close. the bug is different, and ive taken on more then i can count to get a true feel for them so i can be confident what i say about them is accurate. there is a CLEAR difference between bug duels, and with any other escort, in my experience participating in hundreds of these duels.
now assuming its a talented user, an alpha strike from them cant be effectively countered by yourself unless you want to blow rsp and guarantee a very short fight. you will take significant hull damage from them, and its not damage you can come back from. in anything less maneuverable then a defiant, the bug can keep pointed on them effortlessly, and can speed tank like no other with its better than other escort impulse mod. if its reversing, it can point at you in a second, there only way to stand a chance against a skilled user in one is snares, multiple snares. PTW consoles, tractor beams, plasma, anything but more then 1. but most carry PH and 2 omegas because they know this is their only exploitable weakness. those that don't carry enough of those i can beat. and, like mav's video showed, the only other way to to go toe to toe with a bug is to do it in a ship that is not at a maneuverability disadvantage, and then out fly it. keeping its cannon uptime low is your only chance.
turn rate is absolutely everything to a DHC user, he who has the most wins, thats why raptors suck so bad. just like with accuracy, if you cant hit you cant damage. i call out the 5th console a lot, but it really is the whole pacage that makes it as deadly as it is. the problem with the 5th console is that its the straw that breaks TT's back and allows it to deal so much hull damage when you would other wise be protected. its not the additional general dps it provides thats the problem. add a decloak buff with the fleet defient and a grow more worried. a LTC science station power and 5 tac consoles has the potential to be scarey too.
who needs balance right? why is better ok? for the 3rd time now, a better ship with a good user will beat a good ship with a good user. so i win it is.
i said 100% up time on something, theres more then just other escorts. and no, other escorts really cant keep uptime like it can.
less powerful alphas and lower on target up time. it will be as durable though. thats just a mathematical certainty.
tell you what, give me a half a billion EC, and i'll stay the execution
yep. got fleet ktinga and fleet vorcha. doubt i'd get any others. the fleet vorcha splits the difference between an escort and cruiser, doing the job ether is supposed to do not as well. but im a cruiser guy so its fun, thats why i like it. the ktinga i think is the best and most versatile cruiser in the game. it has the full suite of cruiser station abilities and absolutely awesome maneuverability. if i had to call ether of these ships op, id call the ktinga it. i also recently discovered that based on its per facing shield hitpoints that it has a shield mod of 1.07, its the same for other "inferior" fleet ships. the vorcha i can confirm has 1.1.
the fleet ships are hardly pay to win, just pay a whole lot. 10% better hitpoints is not enough to overcome any skill deficiency, and 1 more console, be it dump or useful, can be nice but hardly critical. the fleet ships arent even odyssey level, or above that at bug level.
This. Exactly this. I fly a BoP while PvPing, and I stay well away from bugs because I know I'm well out-classed. It WILL shred through my Tactical Team'd shields like tissue paper. The raptor. . .don't even get me started. The bug can and will fly circles around the raptor, no matter how much you try to boost turning ability. It will also out-DPS at the same time.
Funny how some Feddies like to complain about their escorts getting left behind by advances and by the bug, but rarely seem to care that KDF escort-level ships are in an even worse boat in many respects. These are the ships that are supposed to be more combat-oriented than the Federation ships, too!
The most fragile, most oftenly destroyed ship on screen in all Star Trek-dom, is the most powerful ship in STO. Then again, this is the same game that dictates that the ancient Excelsior-class is superior to the later developed Galaxy-class. Even more powerful than the later developed and cutting edge advanced Sovereign-class.
dont forget that ALL ships now require dilithium to buy except the free type 8 shuttle (you get one free from a mission) and your inital miranda.... so all ships are "pay 2 win" in my eyes because the only way to get any ship is with dilithium. no otherway anymore.
As far as balance goes those who have complained have been correct all along and continue to be so. But, Cryptic has never cared so there's little point asside from creating player gentleman agreements in premade matches/tourneys. As I mentioned before I used to not use plas leech unless others brought their P2W consoles. But, I don't care anymore. Ships, Doffs, Consoles, Boffs are all out of balance.
Still, if Cryptic were to ever can its EP D.S. then perhaps PvP will get the attention it deserves and balance will be important. Currently, they won't even tag on fleet rewards to dilithium PvP rewards. They are trying to kill PvP, they will continue to release broken TRIBBLE to do so.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
i feel the same way, i can basically deal with all of it. a lot of the stuff is low level and doesnt mater, the rest at level cap cant make up for skill, mostly. but even so, the bug is beyond the pale, in the realm of absurdity, overpowered. it is not ok. in every single stat category it is better then every other thing.
There isnt going to be a difference in firepower once those ships show up and the BO layout is really going to end up being the same or very similar. Sure you might have the option of going 2x engineer or 2x science but why would you? It honestly would be a pretty stupid build. So in the end you are left with a minor difference in turning. Again, If anyone should be complaining it should be the KDF escort pilots as they have almost no viable options to choose from. The new Raptor(s) turns like ****, shield modifier is laughable, and has only 4 tac consoles.
At least fedside has viable escort options to choose from and some nasty new fleet refits. KDF side? Well let's just say they are F****D.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
A couple of people have pointed out the synergy of the Fleet Patrol Escort and Attack Ships. The Bug ship captains I've played against have all used a Fleet Patrol BOF layout, as husanakx suggested as being the logical setup. In a PVP setting I couldn't imagine too many people deviating from this proscribed setup and then generally it would be in specific premade instances.
So with that conclusion made you are comparing like with like, though the attack ship has the edge in raw turning which is what PVPers tend to salivate or grind their teeth over. The hull and shield strength doesn't play into the equation for me given the style of play most PVP matches take (I.E. 4-5 ships targeting 1 opponent ship; in these cases a few thousand hull points aren't going to save you, nor your turning prowess, but that extend shield and heals from your buddies might).
Let's face it though if you both know what you're doing 1v1 = stalemate unless you're willing to hang around for a very protracted fight. Doesn't matter what you're flying (T4+), unless of course you get a mother load of crit luck or are cooking the books with a impenetrable M.A.C.O. shield, nasty power drones etc.
Attack ships don't kill people, people kill people.
The fleet ships are more than the equal to the Jem, you just don't see many yet as the fleet base is such a large pve investment.
Actually, I thought the Mirandas were the most-destroyed ship on screen? :P
You see annihilated Mirandas in First Contact (battle with the Borg Cube) and pretty much every other large-scale battle scene. They're cannon fodder. . .
Well my favorite part is the endless stream of PvPers ( mostly BoPs ) saying the reason why I tank them is because of my Attack Ship, despite the obvious that I can tank ( if not more ) in a Fleet Patrol Escort lol.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
So, in the future could we please try a little restraint and perhaps opt for calling it the:
"Cake N' Eat It"?
or
"Instant Teabag"?
Hmm... on my Bortas, I can really feel the difference...
One more console should be about 7% more damage. In a situation where you have just enough DPS to break the shields and nothing more, an extra 7% will melt the hull as well.
No one is arguing that the Attack Ship isn't stronger. What we are arguing is that things are being blown out of proportion.
"Much stronger" is also relatively exaggerated, the Attack Ship can turn faster. But the Fleet Patrol can out tank it. While turn rate may be excellent for aiming DHCs, there are other ways to kill people and other factors that can be accounted for.
Additional Tact Console also feels greatly exaggerated also.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
I hope nobody will start playing the game naked, lol.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Also, claiming that the fleet patrol escort can out tank the bug when your own stats show otherwise is just silly.
TRIBBLE | -Show Me Your Critz-
Svarog | Veles | et al.
Dont give them ideas.
Seriously sick of the constant whining about this ship. It is awesome. We know that. It's meant to be.
It still takes a decent pilot to be able to do really well in a bug. Saying its pure P2W is just insulting.
It has the speed, turnrate (actually no, it has a better turnrate) and offensive capabilities of a fleet tactical escort and the tanking capabilities of a fleet patrol escort. It can both tank via it's speed like a fleet tactical escort AND tank via engineering powers like a fleet patrol escort at the same time.
It's super fast, super tanky and super damage dealing.
It is overpowered, end of.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
I sometimes feel that way when flying my BoP, usually when I'm unleashed upon less-skilled/experienced feddies. I'm in a friggin ship that has only 3 tac consoles and is fragile in overall, and feddies are crumpling beneath my alpha-strike ambushes. It's glorious. It's too bad that it's quite difficult to do the same with players at your skill level, what with the BoP and raptors being outclassed.
The Tholian ships would like a word with you.
They aren't better than the Fleet ships either, and yet people looove them some Orbweavers and Recluses. (Infact Recluse pets are some of the worst options overall)
The ship being unique but on par with fleet ships is good enough to make them desirable. Here's the thing, Fleet Ships are Ground for, weeks, if not months in the making to get them. A lockbox ship is something you can get on the first or second try in less than five minutes. Fleet ships also cost, on average 20 USD a pop.
So tell me, exactly why should the bug be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> a fleet ship again? "I spent hundreds to get mine!" And you made that choice. If you're dumb enough to shell out that kind of cash for something you can't even hold in your hand, you have issues you need to work through.
Ignoring the fact that Lockbox ships ( particularly this one ) take far more to get, and are infact very pricy, even over the exchange.
Ignoring the fact that Fleet Ships are always available, whereas lockbox ships are not.
Ignoring the fact that the Attack Ship wasn't even in a Lockbox last time, yet cost more than a lockbox, and was available for a far shorter time than any other lockbox ship. ( Excluding Winter Event )
What people spend their money on, is none of your business. Look I've spent quite a bit on this game, click the "Computer" link in my signature. Do you really think money is an issue for me? /lol
Furthermore ever bought a video game? Yes? How about a videogame console? Yes? How dare you shell out that kind of cash for virtual eyecandy.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Holly cow Mewi, you're living in a flight control tower? Lol. I bet that only the 3 monitor stand was a small fortune. Still, for this game, I think you'd better be with a 37-42 inch tv, but that's me...
A side note: the issue with spending money is not a problem in itself, but when only few people can afford it or are willing to spend, then the game goes to hell since those people that can afford will kick the butts of everybody else, so having a "slight" advantage is somewhat ok, but when this advantage gets more than slight, it becomes an issue.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
See above. The Tholian ships and the Galor didn't get to be OP. So why did the bug?
Fleet Ships again take ALOT of resources to get, often times you have to end up buying Doff Packs just to feed the damn missions. Meaning their cost is often, quite usually higher than 20 dollars before it is said and done. "always available" Yes, to people with fleets, fleets which Usually consist of more than one person, each dedicating no small amount of time to get better ships. Available, providing you grind for Week upon Week, upon Week to get it, over an entire guild. Vs... Oh I spent 110 cpoints looky a lockbox ship! wooo!
You want an advantage, to compensate for your lack of ability. You're willing to shell out oodles of money to get it. What happens when cryptic does it again, and makes something more powerful than your ship. What are you going to then? Open your wallet again?
Do you really think I care about your income level there champ? What you spent on your computer, I've put into my cars. Easily.
Funny, when I spend twenty to sixty dollars for a game, I get a full product, that in most cases, I have a hard copy of. Not... you shell out sixty dollars for something that once the game dies and STO will die, you'll never get to use it again. If you want to be Stupid and spend hundreds of dollars for a Ship, go right ahead. But that doesn't mean you get to have in game advantages (or shouldn't) over someone that spent less than you because they had more sense than you. Or if you do feel that way, maybe you should have aimed abit higher than what you got since you don't feel it's superior enough.