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Lowbies in Fleet Events

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  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    i see you don't get the point, you really hate VA's don't you?

    it's not my fault if my fire at will, torpedo spread, or warp plasma kills a ship 30 lvl below me...why should a VA get punished for it? Punisched for using AOE abilities?

    if you can't see that basic flaw of your idea, i can't help you.


    anyway...doing the nukara ground during the bonus hour is way more rewarding than any of the stuff in the PVE queue. And the loot is better. Too bad it's only for VA'sand LG's
    Go pro or go home
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Every time new content comes out its for "end game"

    well "end game" to mean means "retire"

    Some of the fleet events need to be captains and under only to compensate for the STF's being admirals and up

    give the lowbies and those who never Want to become an admiral a chance
    Live long and Prosper
  • foundrelicfoundrelic Member Posts: 1,380 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Your logic is flawed. Players never get damage changes. To prove this, you need: 1 low-level (preferably 1-10) character. 1 high-level (preferably 50) character. 1 team with high-level character matching low-level character. Your low-level ally will need a minute or two (rough estimate, probably flawed) to destroy a Klingon Bird of Prey, you'll be able to do it in about 10 seconds. Your low-level ally may die to a Klingon Dahar Master, you'll take him down without losing your shields (paraphrasing) merely through dealing superior DPS.

    Damage is dictated by player equipment and skill tree, NOT rank. (though rank DOES come with bigger ships, further increasing the increase in damage)

    Ten seconds? You're padding.


    I routinely team with newbies to help them bust through missions, mostly to break the tedium of end game wit a distraction.

    I match their level and clear nearly all space and ground enemies BEFORE they've popped one.


    One ship versus mine is less than three seconds, and even that is padding the time.


    sollvax wrote: »
    Every time new content comes out its for "end game"

    well "end game" to mean means "retire"

    Some of the fleet events need to be captains and under only to compensate for the STF's being admirals and up

    give the lowbies and those who never Want to become an admiral a chance

    See and THAT creates a pissed off player base.


    How?


    Simple.


    "New content for Captain level and below only!"


    CUrrent majority in game is at or very near VA. That screws thos player out of being able to do those missions on the toons they've worked hard to refine. I'm not even going to touch on the players that have paid lifetime or continue to pay for gold.


    Oh, but they have STFs and VA dailies!


    Yeah, and so will the low level players when they reach that stage. THey can level up, we can not level DOWN.
  • admrenlarreckadmrenlarreck Member Posts: 2,041 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Ok I know Im rising to the bait. but here goes.

    sollvax wrote: »
    Admirals should leave fleet missions to the lower ranks

    its content for THEM

    Okay if its content for the lower level players then why cant they get to Nukara? I would love to get my level 40 to Nukara to level up, but Nukara is restricted to 50, and why do I see 9 out of ten times going into a Fleet que, a message that states clearly that this mission is for level 50 only.



    sollvax wrote: »
    Exactly

    so let the low guys contribute and stop trying to lock them out

    Nobody is locking them out. This whole thread is about giving them matches set to where everyone would have a much better chance of success. The better they succeed the more FM they earn and can contribute.

    What doesn't help matters is people of any level going into a match and then getting popped immediately and waiting till 3 seconds before the timer runs out to respawn. I saw it happen yesterday in a Blockade. He went on ignore for my entire fleet.
    fayhers_starfleet.jpg


    Fleet leader Nova Elite

    Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
    @ren_larreck
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Every time new content comes out its for "end game"

    well "end game" to mean means "retire"

    Some of the fleet events need to be captains and under only to compensate for the STF's being admirals and up

    give the lowbies and those who never Want to become an admiral a chance

    i'm sorry to break this to you, but the game is designed to play at VA lvl. Any MMO is in fact.
    Leveling is just a prelude to the actual content of the game. A single player game is designed towards leveling (if it's an RPG) but STO is an MMO...the REAL game starts at max lvl.

    But i understand your reasoning now i think.
    You like to level characters, and you like to have a fleet all by yourself. Thats fine, but you have to consider that the game is not designed for that specifically. You can do that, but keep in mind that 99% of the rest of the players don't care much about leveling or playing multiple toons.
    So they need to have content to keep them playing even if they reached max lvl. Otherwise those players would get bored and just leave.
    Since those players are the majority, cryptic focuses their resources towards content aimed at them. (ships at VA lvl, missions only for VA, etc...)

    if you prefer single player, there are really cool Star Trek games out there that support singleplayer gameplay. Armada 1 and 2, Star Trek command 1-3, elite force 1 and 2
    Go pro or go home
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    A pair of character slots is a cheap investment
    you want to do new low level content create a new character

    but if you do have "scaled " and "gated" content then the low end ones must give HIGHER rewards

    say 5 times the marks of the highest one

    because now today a lt can get lucky and earn a mk X weapon if you scale him into a low end version he gets a mk i phaser

    meanwhile a bunch of admirals get vast gains for no work
    Live long and Prosper
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax, you are just stuck so deep in your own reality. The buses just don't go where you live.
    Nobody, except you has 30+ toons, except maybe a chinese gold farmer bot.
    And nobody is interested in new low level content. (except for klingons, if they would be a complete faction)
    Have fun leveling your 30th toon through the same old missions...the rest of us will play the new VA content meanwhile.
    Go pro or go home
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Actually I know one other person with an entire army (40+) but his are all without exception Tactical , escort flying males (he is an entire fleet of these guys

    but yes I am perhaps unusual
    Live long and Prosper
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »

    but yes I am perhaps unusual

    don't tell :eek:, but yeah i figured that out allready
    Go pro or go home
  • nalonalo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    IDK if its been said or not but in my own honest opinion anyone lower than 45 shouldnt be able to join a pug thourgh the queue.
    Just finished one in which I think I was the highest lvl there and it was far from good. If they run like that within there own fleet then thats on them and more power to them. However I dont think that those of us at end game should have to carry lower tier unless they can be made able to carry themself.
    No I havent gone thru the thread to see what others have posted as a solution so if there is better I might agree or not. So unless they are gonna break up so they fight with there own tier then I do believe they shouldnt be able to join a public queue.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    And thats EXACTLY the attitude that makes me say admirals should not be queuing in public queues at all for these missions

    if you are a VA then you presumably command a fleet

    get them to queue with you
    Live long and Prosper
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    if you are a VA then you presumably command a fleet

    get them to queue with you

    but thats not how the game is made...vice admiral doesn't mean the same thing in STO as it does in the real world...get over it.

    by now you must have realized that this is a GAME, a make believe world.
    If you prioritize roleplay soooooo much, then joining a public queue for an event isn't really what you want to do anyway.
    Join, or create a roleplay fleet, create events and foundry content as you imagine it and play it at low lvl aslong as you want.
    Go pro or go home
  • aislingiaislingi Member Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    warbird001 wrote: »
    This topic is so elitist. So everyone who has a T3 or lower ship has never played the game or has any idea of how skills work in general? Please... Tier 5 ships are not the only ships that can do Fleet Events because lower level characters need to contribute to Fleets as well. As hard as this may be for any VA elitist to understand, the Fleet Starbase system was not just constructed for you but entire fleets as well.

    If you want to penalise players because you do not get the objective EVERY single time then I seriously suggest you grow up, or just go by an escort.

    This is "Allow Me (the Elitist) to kick people from STF's if we don't get the optionals" all over again.

    And before you ask, I have 4 VA Characters myself, I do not complain about such a "problem". I think people have to understand that this is a casual game and does not penalise the player in the same way other MMO's do. I am sorry but if you do not have the patience to have one bad match up out of 20 or 30 then somebody needs therapy.

    THANK YOU.

    I'm a VA, but I remember what it was like to be a newbie.

    Encourage new players to participate. Help them get better. Don't be like the OP, a self centered end game player, who not only has premades available to him/her, but they also think they deserve perfect PUGs too, because their premades aren't always available when they want them.

    This community needs less people like the OP.
    I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
  • nalonalo Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    And thats EXACTLY the attitude that makes me say admirals should not be queuing in public queues at all for these missions

    if you are a VA then you presumably command a fleet

    get them to queue with you

    Alright then I wont bother bantering back and forth over a flawed system.

    I went ahead and ran a lowbie of my own to see a few things and maybe if the numbers were limited it wouldnt be so bad but if they cant limit the number then maybe they should give them there own queue for it. As is I had no powers that even added to the fight and no support powers to assist so if you get saddled with three or four of them resistance is futile.
  • dknight0001dknight0001 Member Posts: 1,542
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    A pair of character slots is a cheap investment
    you want to do new low level content create a new character

    but if you do have "scaled " and "gated" content then the low end ones must give HIGHER rewards

    say 5 times the marks of the highest one

    because now today a lt can get lucky and earn a mk X weapon if you scale him into a low end version he gets a mk i phaser

    meanwhile a bunch of admirals get vast gains for no work

    Wait so now the reason Lowbies should mix with VA's is so the Lowbies get mk X gear they can't use? The real reward for doing things at low level is XP.
    nalo wrote: »
    IDK if its been said or not but in my own honest opinion anyone lower than 45 shouldnt be able to join a pug thourgh the queue.
    Just finished one in which I think I was the highest lvl there and it was far from good. If they run like that within there own fleet then thats on them and more power to them. However I dont think that those of us at end game should have to carry lower tier unless they can be made able to carry themself.
    No I havent gone thru the thread to see what others have posted as a solution so if there is better I might agree or not. So unless they are gonna break up so they fight with there own tier then I do believe they shouldnt be able to join a public queue.
    aislingi wrote: »
    THANK YOU.

    I'm a VA, but I remember what it was like to be a newbie.

    Encourage new players to participate. Help them get better. Don't be like the OP, a self centered end game player, who not only has premades available to him/her, but they also think they deserve perfect PUGs too, because their premades aren't always available when they want them.

    This community needs less people like the OP.

    What a lot of people have been saying is that the Fleet events should be like the Mirror Universe and gated by Tier. Content, appropriate challenge and rewards for every one. How is that not fair? With my lower tier character I thought I was going to get a fair deal but it turns out I was just a burden to the other players not having the fire power or the BOFF abilities to be of much use. And I never joined the event again. I'm not RA and once I select and outfit my new ship I feel I will be useful to the team and will que again.

    Being a burden to others is not my idea of fun, I guess I'm the odd one out wanting to be able to do my fair share for a fair reward.

    The Development team basically cheated the lowbies, they made the event and balanced it once for T5 not for the lower tiers. And thought just uprank them to not exclude them rather than making a balanced battle for the lower Tiers. This should not be a VA's vs everyone argument it should be a Why didn't they bother to consider lower level players discussion.
    I was once DKnight1000, apparently I had taken my own name so now I'm DKnight0001. :confused:
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  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    What a lot of people have been saying is that the Fleet events should be like the Mirror Universe and gated by Tier. Content, appropriate challenge and rewards for every one. How is that not fair? With my lower tier character I thought I was going to get a fair deal but it turns out I was just a burden to the other players not having the fire power or the BOFF abilities to be of much use. And I never joined the event again. I'm not RA and once I select and outfit my new ship I feel I will be useful to the team and will que again.

    totally agree with that! Funny thing is, that instead of implementing them like they made the mirror event they chose to implement them with the allready known to be flawed system of the red alerts with the borg.

    already back then when those hit, it was obvious that anything less than VA or RA was a burden and the alert was unfinishable.
    But in as usual the guys at cryptic chose the system that is obviously broken and flawed. Why...who knows. I only know they have another system ingame (mirror event) that works just fine.
    Mirror event is gated...i can see that there lies the difference, but it doesn't hurt anybody to just wait a few minutes to join a fleet event.

    Red alerts are dead and burried, lets hope those fleet events don't face the same destiny in the near future. Without adding a reward, appart the fleet marks, to both at the end...they have no future in my opinion.
    Go pro or go home
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    foundrelic wrote: »
    Ten seconds? You're padding.


    I routinely team with newbies to help them bust through missions, mostly to break the tedium of end game wit a distraction.

    I match their level and clear nearly all space and ground enemies BEFORE they've popped one.

    I know, I know... It's just been a bit too long since I last played with one of my low-level friends, and I didn't want to push the 'timer' below the minimum.

    But yeah, the point of my statement was that a VA matching a Lt. will ALWAYS be EXTREMELY superior, both due to higher boff ability count and due to higher weapon count and indeed due to higher weapon mark (which dictates damage).

    And baudl, I also fully agree with that. Private queues can stay like they are, but PUGs need to be separated by level. No arguing about it.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • gr8gatzgr8gatz Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    aislingi wrote: »
    THANK YOU.

    I'm a VA, but I remember what it was like to be a newbie.

    Encourage new players to participate. Help them get better. Don't be like the OP, a self centered end game player, who not only has premades available to him/her, but they also think they deserve perfect PUGs too, because their premades aren't always available when they want them.

    This community needs less people like the OP.

    Excuse me? I remember what its like to be new. Im not self centered or elitist. I run with terrible pugs and the rare off perfect pugs... either way is fine by me. Once in awhile I run with premade friends/fleeties and its more fun to actually complete an objective then to fail over and over again and waste what is precious gaming time.

    You, however, are either a skilled troll who wanted to bait me back into this thread or are completely delusional like sollvax (possibly 1 of his alts) and decided to personally attack someone who brings a valid point of a flawed system to light that most posters and I am sure most STO gamers would agree with.

    In addition, if comparing sizes is something you would like to do, I can bring forward lots of players who have benefited from my guidance. For example: ship setups, boff spec, doff spec, player spec, kit setups, and proper way of playing the game. I sacrifice quite a lot of personal time, equipment, doff/boffs and anything else I have to ensure people that are in my fleet receive the best possible experience in the game while enjoying themselves.

    My comments have been nothing but positive about changes that should be brought to the game and in no way takes away from any rank/level or skill.

    You however came in with a negative comment, no positive feedback or counter argument and decided to attack me and the character of person I am, which is not acceptable.

    I deplore your attitude. Treat others as you would like to be treated. That is the Golden rule within our fleet. Your fleet leader should read this and I would hope that if he/she is of any moral standing would find that your lack of respect of other fleets, players and views is not acceptable.
  • shadoreshadore Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    To reply to the original post, I think the fleet events should work like the mirror event. Only players in a certain range can group with other people in that range. The programming is already there, just a matter of adapting the code. If your reading this cryptic programmers, I pay you every 3 months to fix things like this.
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Wouldn a better solution be to scale everyone down, instead of up?

    That way the so-called-lowbies would still be valuable while not compromising fleet play.

    I dislike separating low level players and high level players... I like my fleet... ALL of my fleet, and I don't want to be seperated from them when we use half-pug, half-fleet runs.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • baudlbaudl Member Posts: 4,060 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    anazonda wrote: »
    Wouldn a better solution be to scale everyone down, instead of up?

    That way the so-called-lowbies would still be valuable while not compromising fleet play.

    I dislike separating low level players and high level players... I like my fleet... ALL of my fleet, and I don't want to be seperated from them when we use half-pug, half-fleet runs.

    no, because even a VA with only 10k hull and 2k shield would have all his powers and those of his ship. It would make the event trivial anyway. The scaling down would only mean that it would be smarter for any VA to enter it scaled down, because it's easier...

    it would stop the frustration people have right now, but at the expense that the event is too easy once a VA is there...even if he is scaled down.

    anyway...if you want to play with your fleet, try to hit VA as quick as possible. It should be doable in less than 2 weekends if you grind mirror universe with a VA at your side. If you like to play at lower lvls, i'm sorry, the event is just not designed appropriately for that.
    Go pro or go home
  • skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Admirals should leave fleet missions to the lower ranks

    its content for THEM

    Hmm, I think you're forgetting the whole levelling up mission chains, that's the content for them.
  • cursixcursix Member Posts: 0
    edited July 2012
    Besides the fact that lower level players cannot contribute much to these events due to a system design flaw, shouldn't we look at it from another angle?

    How is it fun for low level players to enter a match that they will get obliterated quickly and barely have any impact on the enemy's health? It would be like setting all the mobs in the first few missions like the azura to lvl 50 and boosting the lower level up but not giving them the abilities to counter tacyon beam, tractor beam, boarding parties, fighters, etc. That would just be too frustrating for them and they would leave not having any fun at all.

    Yes, they could grab a VA to help them through the mission, but would that low level player have fun? Essentially, they are just watching while the VA does all the work which just isn't fun. I've helped lower levels do story missions and know from experience they do not want you to wipe out everything. They want to learn and have fun. I go so far as not only to level myself down to their level but strip most of my weapons off so I can help but not over help.

    Those thinking this is an elitist request are just deluding themselves. The whole premise of this topic is so everyone, low level and high level can play and have fun!
  • fogerty1fogerty1 Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    you can play this two ways

    1 admit using boffs (not doffs) is an exploit and CHEATING

    2 admit you did not understand the statement

    those are your options



    please note the EXACT words you used


    Oh GEE stand corrected, having a NURSE BOFF being a medic down REALLY is cheating.

    So again, without my MEDIC healing me under attack by 20 NPC's, the mission would have been won???

    You really should seek mental health Sollvax because though you were right that I claimed I used a Medic boff, your still competely wrong in just about everything you say.
    Too Bad, So Sad
    PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fogerty1fogerty1 Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    latinumbar wrote: »
    LOL. I pay attention just fine. If you think you are right, please provide your evidence. Until you do, you're just blowing hot air out of your behind.

    There have been several interviews with different devs on various podcasts where it's been stated that the majority of players are max level now. That is why all the NEW content upcoming is focused on stuff for max level players to do. Get your facts straight.



    SO right! I completely agree!
    Too Bad, So Sad
    PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fogerty1fogerty1 Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    Ignore Sollvax, he's a troll. You're only feeding him. Ignore his stupid quips and ignorance and total lack of knowledge and he'll go away eventually.

    One can only hope. My suspicion is he is a lawyer in RL as he tries to twist words from their true meaning, and when cornered, tries to turn everything against the poster rather than focus on the issue.

    Case in point, because I used a MEDIC, I cheated to try to get SOME FC out of an incursion mission that had 4 people laying in the entranceway yelling HELP HELP rather than respawning and doing the mission. I salvaged what I could so I didn't need to sit for 30 minutes grumbling to myself about how TRIBBLE these noobs are to think they have the passives from accolades to withstand hits in the mission.

    Sollvax, go troll secondlife. It is more suitable for you to debate content infringement than to act like a 6 year old here trying to always be right when you are always so wrong.

    I sorely wish I could put your posts here on ignore.
    Too Bad, So Sad
    PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • fogerty1fogerty1 Member Posts: 65 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    once the VA "accidentally" kill robs the others they can claim THEIR marks and warp out

    because the Va has just done their job

    meanwhile the Va fails the mission

    and maybe will learn not to go out of his way to brutalise the others


    WOW, one word to simply summarize this lack of wisdom. Seriously change crack brands, or the crack dealer, because this one isn't working for you.
    Too Bad, So Sad
    PS: Sollvax, no need to add your worthless wooden nickel comments.


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • stohansonstohanson Member Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    warbird001 wrote: »
    This topic is so elitist.


    This made me laugh because you obviously have no idea what the meaning of the word is, if you think this post is elitist.
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    LOL

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ...

    You do realize multiposting like that is against forum rules?

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited July 2012
    So the problem is you think the medic is a boff and you confessed to a crime you didn't commit

    (medics are spawned NPCS not boffs)

    Boffs are specific bridge officers

    and please enough with the "drug" references
    no one uses drugs (once you do you can't type)
    Live long and Prosper
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