i make it a point to NOT enter any team event with a char under captain. i have two at lcdr right now, and have no intention of entering a red alert or starbase 24 or mirror fleet until I'm driving a defiant/galaxy
I'm not the person who was discussing transgender , cross gender , intersex and non gender people in a public area
im the man who asked them to stop
there are some things you don't discuss in public chat
Gender identity
Sexual activity (of any kind)
Drugs
Suicides
political matters
football
the biggots are the people who want to tell people to go cut bits of themselves OFF because they don't think its a suitable topic for an area inhabited by children
So take my good advice
if you have gender issues see a doctor and a psychologist
not one or the other
and they can tell you what gender you are biologically (theres only a choice of three really)
and help you come to terms with it
We (my people) invented homosexuality and discovered hermaphoritism and gender neutral syndrome (no gender at all) thousands and thousands of years ago
but we do not discuss them in public in front of children
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Opening a lockbox is like using a public restroom when u gotta poo.
You are just hoping nobody blew on the seat or that all the toilet paper is gone.
I'm not the person who was discussing transgender , cross gender , intersex and non gender people in a public area
im the man who asked them to stop
there are some things you don't discuss in public chat
Gender identity
Sexual activity (of any kind)
Drugs
Suicides
political matters
football
the biggots are the people who want to tell people to go cut bits of themselves OFF because they don't think its a suitable topic for an area inhabited by children
So take my good advice
if you have gender issues see a doctor and a psychologist
not one or the other
and they can tell you what gender you are biologically (theres only a choice of three really)
and help you come to terms with it
We (my people) invented homosexuality and discovered hermaphoritism and gender neutral syndrome (no gender at all) thousands and thousands of years ago
but we do not discuss them in public in front of children
You have no authority to decide what people can and cannot talk about, nothing in the conversation that was there was violating the terms of service. You couldn't handle a frank mature discussion so you got annoyed that people ignored you when asked to stop. You also complain that the area is frequented by children, yet you are quite happy to let people have cybersex and other vile things go on in Drozana. However because people were discussing a topic that is a real issue for people but interferes with your worldview, you just couldn't handle it.
I think you also need to look up the definition of bigot, actually, I'll do it for you.
Vulcan logic is based on defeating "the beast"
the whole purpose of the logic and teachings of the vulcan tradition is to move away from vulcans "barbaric" past
when loot (money , wealth , shiney rocks) and Lust (desire) and Rage took them to the egde of extinction
Loot has no real use in the Star trek universe
the ship you are issued comes armed
you can make or obtain massive ranges of gear
grubbing for loot is barbaric (and should be done only by appropriate characters like orions , ferengi , nausicaans and wesley crushers decendants)
the desire for "wealth" or "power" or "shiney rocks" is alien to Star trek and alien to Vulcans
Vulcan logic is based on defeating "the beast"
the whole purpose of the logic and teachings of the vulcan tradition is to move away from vulcans "barbaric" past
when loot (money , wealth , shiney rocks) and Lust (desire) and Rage took them to the egde of extinction
Loot has no real use in the Star trek universe
the ship you are issued comes armed
you can make or obtain massive ranges of gear
grubbing for loot is barbaric (and should be done only by appropriate characters like orions , ferengi , nausicaans and wesley crushers decendants)
the desire for "wealth" or "power" or "shiney rocks" is alien to Star trek and alien to Vulcans
and again you base your argumentation about gameplay aspects on roleplay targ TRIBBLE.
is this logical in real life now, or does it show that you lost your sense of reality?
It seems to me you were thinking about "vulcan philosophy" or "vulcan cultural idiosyncrasies" instead. To try and speak of Logic in subjective terms is a contradiction.
We are not Starfleet Officers in the Star Trek universe, we are players playing a videogame in which loot has a very real use.
Generally speaking it would be illogical for us to base our behaviour in the imagined context of the Star Trek universe instead of the actual context of the game as long as both are not perfectly identical, when we play the game.
grubbing for loot is barbaric (and should be done only by appropriate characters like orions , ferengi , nausicaans and wesley crushers decendants)
"Barbaric" is a subjective consideration. "Logical" is not.
Regardless of how "Barbaric" it may be considered by a given observer it is still "Logical" for those who pursue ingame objectives for which loot is needed to pursue loot.
To do otherwise while still expecting to accomplish those objectives would not be Logical.
Which was exactly marc8219's point. I quote:
"Its not logical to accept less FM and loot when you can get more simply by being in an instance with all level 50s."
His implied objective being either to obtain as much FM and loot as possible or to accomplish tasks for which both FM and loot are needed it would be illogical for him to accept being handicapped for the enjoyment of strangers when the enjoyment of strangers is obviously not something he cares about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
Vulcan logic is based on defeating "the beast"
It seems to me you were thinking about "vulcan philosophy" or "vulcan cultural idiosyncrasies" instead. To try and speak of Logic in subjective terms is a contradiction.
there is no objective difference
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
Loot has no real use in the Star trek universe
We are not Starfleet Officers in the Star Trek universe, we are players playing a videogame in which loot has a very real use.
you might be
Im a starfleet officer (well a bunch of them actually)
Generally speaking it would be illogical for us to base our behaviour in the imagined context of the Star Trek universe instead of the actual context of the game as long as both are not perfectly identical, when we play the game.
logic says "to achieve perfection SEEK it"
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
grubbing for loot is barbaric (and should be done only by appropriate characters like orions , ferengi , nausicaans and wesley crushers decendants)
"Barbaric" is a subjective consideration. "Logical" is not.
Barbaric is a specific word logic is subjective
Regardless of how "Barbaric" it may be considered by a given observer it is still "Logical" for those who pursue ingame objectives for which loot is needed to pursue loot.
if you NEED loot you are doing something wrong
To do otherwise while still expecting to accomplish those objectives would not be Logical.
Which was exactly marc8219's point. I quote:
"Its not logical to accept less FM and loot when you can get more simply by being in an instance with all level 50s."
you mean better to score ZERO and become hated by leaving than stay and get 26 marks
wow thats very logical
His implied objective being either to obtain as much FM and loot as possible or to accomplish tasks for which both FM and loot are needed it would be illogical for him to accept being handicapped for the enjoyment of strangers when the enjoyment of strangers is obviously not something he cares about.
From Merriam-Webster Online: "a : of, relating to, or characteristic of barbarians
b : possessing or characteristic of a cultural level more complex than primitive savagery but less sophisticated than advanced civilization
2
a : marked by a lack of restraint : wild
b : having a bizarre, primitive, or unsophisticated quality"
Define "Less sophisticated than advanced civilization" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists independently from the observer.
Define "Bizarre," "primitive," or "unsophisticated" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists independently from the observer.
Otherwise the quality of "Barbaric" is subjective, as it exists not outside the observer.
Logic is not a value but a procedure, a method, or a technique. The value you attribute "logic" can be subjective, but "logic" itself can't.
I quote: "Regardless of how 'Barbaric' it may be considered by a given observer it is still 'Logical' for those who pursue ingame objectives for which loot is needed to pursue loot."
I never stated which objectives were "those" pursuing. How can you decide whether or not "those" are wrong in the perception of "their" need?
you mean better to score ZERO and become hated by leaving than stay and get 26 marks
Which is irrelevant to what I said.
I quote: "it would be illogical for him to accept being handicapped for the enjoyment of strangers when the enjoyment of strangers is obviously not something he cares about."
Getting back on topic. there is a problem here for fleet STfs. Despite the skill and bravery of the lobies they just don't have enough and still make the time. here are 2 solutions to this.
1. Create a seperate group a missi9n designed for the lower tier ships and toons. Thus they can contribute to their fleet and less headaches for the VA's.
2. get rid of the timers. If we are defending a base from attack why should time be a factor. the enemy can appear in waves and it ends with either the base destroyed or the waves defeated. and mix up the levels on the NPC ships so the lowbies have a chance.
barbarian is "person defined as a barbarian by a Greek or (later) Roman citizen"
thats its true meaning
but logic changes with situation data and racial attitudes
"one for all and all for one" is logical (to a french musketeer) but so is " the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one " (to a vulcan) and "never leave a man behind" to a marine.
Logic is subjective
As to the Admirals comment yes event content for lower ranks would be great as long as its hard capped to keep VA's out
you mean better to score ZERO and become hated by leaving than stay and get 26 marks
wow thats very logical
How am I doing something wrong by needing loot? do you realize how much money you need in s6 to get all the stuff you need to upgrade a starbase? Unlike you I try to contribute as much as possible, therefore I need not only lots of fleet marks, but lots of EC to buy the stuff I need to upgrade starbase. I also don't have time to risk failing a fleet event and risk getting locked out with no fleet marks to show for it, this happens sometimes when there are low levels in the group. It is logical to make the most efficient use of your time after all.
If lowbies that I don't know choose to hate me for not wanting to carry them then so be it, if someone expects that of me I really don't care what their opinion is. .
do you realize how much money you need in s6 to get all the stuff you need to upgrade a starbase
?
not much
ok buying the fighters costs 3250 a time
shield generators are an expense
and yes even provisions might need topping up
Unlike you I try to contribute as much as possible,
sorry WHAT??
you think I contribute nothing?
I run two alt fleets
I am in three other fleets
im in the top 10 in EACH of them
in a few I have paid to open the blast doors (outright)
I contribute doffs by the score and enough marks to set off several projects each day (spread across my various duties)
I just don't gripe about it
money is meaningless
therefore I need not only lots of fleet marks,
which you should be leaving to lower ranks to gain
but lots of EC to buy the stuff I need to upgrade starbase. I also don't have time to risk failing a fleet event and risk getting locked out with no fleet marks to show for it, this happens sometimes when there are low levels in the group. It is logical to make the most efficient use of your time after all.
no it doesn't
failures do not "lock you out"
If lowbies that I don't know choose to hate me for not wanting to carry them then so be it, if someone expects that of me I really don't care what their opinion is. .
you will
those lowbies are the next generation of Fleet admirals (your future bosses)
In theory there should be little difference. Star Trek writters were not well versed in Logic, regretfully.
I am not going to turn this into a crack course in formal logic, regardless.
I am sorry but you being delusional does not change the reality of the situation.
Define "perfection" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists outside of the observer.
From Merriam-Webster Online: "a : of, relating to, or characteristic of barbarians
b : possessing or characteristic of a cultural level more complex than primitive savagery but less sophisticated than advanced civilization
2
a : marked by a lack of restraint : wild
b : having a bizarre, primitive, or unsophisticated quality"
Define "Less sophisticated than advanced civilization" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists independently from the observer.
Define "Bizarre," "primitive," or "unsophisticated" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists independently from the observer.
Otherwise the quality of "Barbaric" is subjective, as it exists not outside the observer.
Logic is not a value but a procedure, a method, or a technique. The value you attribute "logic" can be subjective, but "logic" itself can't.
I quote: "Regardless of how 'Barbaric' it may be considered by a given observer it is still 'Logical' for those who pursue ingame objectives for which loot is needed to pursue loot."
I never stated which objectives were "those" pursuing. How can you decide whether or not "those" are wrong in the perception of "their" need?
Which is irrelevant to what I said.
I quote: "it would be illogical for him to accept being handicapped for the enjoyment of strangers when the enjoyment of strangers is obviously not something he cares about."
You are free to change all instances of "strangers" for "people" if you so decide. Their enjoyment is still irrelevant to his objective.
Lol, you sound like a Vulcan. But yeah, I fully agree.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
ok buying the fighters costs 3250 a time
shield generators are an expense
and yes even provisions might need topping up
You forgot the skyrockting duty officer price, so yes any and all loot i can sell to get money for that is needed.
which you should be leaving to lower ranks to gain
Don't have low levels in my fleet because its too easy to make level 50. And they can't earn FM nearly as fast. Low levels for example don't normally have enough skill points to max ground stealth out, thefore can't easily take out all 4 saboteur quickly in incursion, therfore limiting the fm they earn.
no it doesn't
failures do not "lock you out"
You get 30 min cooldown whether you win or lose
you will
those lowbies are the next generation of Fleet admirals (your future bosses)
You forgot the skyrockting duty officer price, so yes any and all loot i can sell to get money for that is needed.
totally unimportant
if you are BUYING doffs at those prices you are feeding the ferengi
Doffs are readily available in large numbers
at NO cost
Quote:
which you should be leaving to lower ranks to gain
Don't have low levels in my fleet because its too easy to make level 50. And they can't earn FM nearly as fast. Low levels for example don't normally have enough skill points to max ground stealth out, thefore can't easily take out all 4 saboteur quickly in incursion, therfore limiting the fm they earn.
stealth usually COSTS the mission
I have run this many times with teams in the low range we average 25 marks and a total clean sheet on the corner sabs
largely because we don't stealth or spread out a bunch of drones and blow the end mission
Quote:
no it doesn't
failures do not "lock you out"
You get 30 min cooldown whether you win or lose
and it should be a DAY if you leave the mission instead of staying with it
Quote:
you will
those lowbies are the next generation of Fleet admirals (your future bosses)
lol
as the proposed FA rank will come in time and it will be in their time not yours
you will
those lowbies are the next generation of Fleet admirals (your future bosses)
with that kind of logic, and considering that you are completely submerged in this roleplay i think i'm your boss right now, since i am Vice admiral, and you are not.
So, i regret to inform you that you have been discharged from starfleet. Please leave the keys to your ship at my secretaries office by Friday.
signed, Vice Admiral Raudl
the answer you gave there just perfectly shows in what kind of messed up dream reality you are right now.
Not your opinions themselfes disqualify you from any discussion on the forums. It's the way you present them and think they are superior to any other opinion, even if they make no sense at all, and are way off reality.
Comments
Pretty funny coming from someone who just got driven out of Drozana for being a massive bigot.
I'm not the person who was discussing transgender , cross gender , intersex and non gender people in a public area
im the man who asked them to stop
there are some things you don't discuss in public chat
Gender identity
Sexual activity (of any kind)
Drugs
Suicides
political matters
football
the biggots are the people who want to tell people to go cut bits of themselves OFF because they don't think its a suitable topic for an area inhabited by children
So take my good advice
if you have gender issues see a doctor and a psychologist
not one or the other
and they can tell you what gender you are biologically (theres only a choice of three really)
and help you come to terms with it
We (my people) invented homosexuality and discovered hermaphoritism and gender neutral syndrome (no gender at all) thousands and thousands of years ago
but we do not discuss them in public in front of children
Opening a lockbox is like using a public restroom when u gotta poo.
You are just hoping nobody blew on the seat or that all the toilet paper is gone.
theres no point in trying to help or trying to talk to people
Everyone assumes you are trying to cause trouble
so basically its not worth it
highly doubt you would actually do us this favour, it's not in the nature of a troll to actually stop trolling.
You have no authority to decide what people can and cannot talk about, nothing in the conversation that was there was violating the terms of service. You couldn't handle a frank mature discussion so you got annoyed that people ignored you when asked to stop. You also complain that the area is frequented by children, yet you are quite happy to let people have cybersex and other vile things go on in Drozana. However because people were discussing a topic that is a real issue for people but interferes with your worldview, you just couldn't handle it.
I think you also need to look up the definition of bigot, actually, I'll do it for you.
Ergo, you.
no I don't and nor do you
perhaps a ruling from the devs ??
is it permitted to discuss drugs , suicide and gender issues ?
I did not report it I asked you to STOP
you missed the suggestion I should mutilate myself in a fatal way then?
theres nothing "mature" about discussing that in public its like talking about iritable bowels on a bus
its impolite
since when?
Sexual discussion in ANY form gender politics in any form these things belong between adults in private
my world view??
that its wrong to discuss this in front of children??
who incidentally do not fully develop gender identity until late teens
and who could be seriously confused by all this
"person who hates people different to themself"
you know like you hate celibate people ?
Im the elf queen
(take that how you like)
point being I am being hunted for NOT supporting this stuff
The statement is wrong: How logical it is depends entirely on previous assumptions that can't be demonstrated objective other than locally.
By which I mean you should study Logic before discussing what is logical and what is not.
Please indulge my curiosity, in which way is loot illogical?
the whole purpose of the logic and teachings of the vulcan tradition is to move away from vulcans "barbaric" past
when loot (money , wealth , shiney rocks) and Lust (desire) and Rage took them to the egde of extinction
Loot has no real use in the Star trek universe
the ship you are issued comes armed
you can make or obtain massive ranges of gear
grubbing for loot is barbaric (and should be done only by appropriate characters like orions , ferengi , nausicaans and wesley crushers decendants)
the desire for "wealth" or "power" or "shiney rocks" is alien to Star trek and alien to Vulcans
and again you base your argumentation about gameplay aspects on roleplay targ TRIBBLE.
is this logical in real life now, or does it show that you lost your sense of reality?
Source: Stage of the Game: July 2012
Silly decisions.
in real life ?
ok fine
Grubbing for loot leads to "Need rage"
Maybe he has a thing for the Vulcan Security officers. Ever notice that they stand at a little more attention than the other female security officers?
It seems to me you were thinking about "vulcan philosophy" or "vulcan cultural idiosyncrasies" instead. To try and speak of Logic in subjective terms is a contradiction.
We are not Starfleet Officers in the Star Trek universe, we are players playing a videogame in which loot has a very real use.
Generally speaking it would be illogical for us to base our behaviour in the imagined context of the Star Trek universe instead of the actual context of the game as long as both are not perfectly identical, when we play the game.
"Barbaric" is a subjective consideration. "Logical" is not.
Regardless of how "Barbaric" it may be considered by a given observer it is still "Logical" for those who pursue ingame objectives for which loot is needed to pursue loot.
To do otherwise while still expecting to accomplish those objectives would not be Logical.
Which was exactly marc8219's point. I quote:
"Its not logical to accept less FM and loot when you can get more simply by being in an instance with all level 50s."
His implied objective being either to obtain as much FM and loot as possible or to accomplish tasks for which both FM and loot are needed it would be illogical for him to accept being handicapped for the enjoyment of strangers when the enjoyment of strangers is obviously not something he cares about.
there is no objective difference
you might be
Im a starfleet officer (well a bunch of them actually)
logic says "to achieve perfection SEEK it"
Barbaric is a specific word logic is subjective
if you NEED loot you are doing something wrong
you mean better to score ZERO and become hated by leaving than stay and get 26 marks
wow thats very logical
people you mean
In theory there should be little difference. Star Trek writters were not well versed in Logic, regretfully.
I am not going to turn this into a crack course in formal logic, regardless.
I am sorry but you being delusional does not change the reality of the situation.
Define "perfection" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists outside of the observer.
From Merriam-Webster Online: "a : of, relating to, or characteristic of barbarians
b : possessing or characteristic of a cultural level more complex than primitive savagery but less sophisticated than advanced civilization
2
a : marked by a lack of restraint : wild
b : having a bizarre, primitive, or unsophisticated quality"
Define "Less sophisticated than advanced civilization" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists independently from the observer.
Define "Bizarre," "primitive," or "unsophisticated" in a manner that requires no previous assumption and exists independently from the observer.
Otherwise the quality of "Barbaric" is subjective, as it exists not outside the observer.
Logic is not a value but a procedure, a method, or a technique. The value you attribute "logic" can be subjective, but "logic" itself can't.
I quote: "Regardless of how 'Barbaric' it may be considered by a given observer it is still 'Logical' for those who pursue ingame objectives for which loot is needed to pursue loot."
I never stated which objectives were "those" pursuing. How can you decide whether or not "those" are wrong in the perception of "their" need?
Which is irrelevant to what I said.
I quote: "it would be illogical for him to accept being handicapped for the enjoyment of strangers when the enjoyment of strangers is obviously not something he cares about."
You are free to change all instances of "strangers" for "people" if you so decide. Their enjoyment is still irrelevant to his objective.
1. Create a seperate group a missi9n designed for the lower tier ships and toons. Thus they can contribute to their fleet and less headaches for the VA's.
2. get rid of the timers. If we are defending a base from attack why should time be a factor. the enemy can appear in waves and it ends with either the base destroyed or the waves defeated. and mix up the levels on the NPC ships so the lowbies have a chance.
barbarian is "person defined as a barbarian by a Greek or (later) Roman citizen"
thats its true meaning
but logic changes with situation data and racial attitudes
"one for all and all for one" is logical (to a french musketeer) but so is " the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the one " (to a vulcan) and "never leave a man behind" to a marine.
Logic is subjective
As to the Admirals comment yes event content for lower ranks would be great as long as its hard capped to keep VA's out
How am I doing something wrong by needing loot? do you realize how much money you need in s6 to get all the stuff you need to upgrade a starbase? Unlike you I try to contribute as much as possible, therefore I need not only lots of fleet marks, but lots of EC to buy the stuff I need to upgrade starbase. I also don't have time to risk failing a fleet event and risk getting locked out with no fleet marks to show for it, this happens sometimes when there are low levels in the group. It is logical to make the most efficient use of your time after all.
If lowbies that I don't know choose to hate me for not wanting to carry them then so be it, if someone expects that of me I really don't care what their opinion is. .
its not needed
its redundant
?
not much
ok buying the fighters costs 3250 a time
shield generators are an expense
and yes even provisions might need topping up
sorry WHAT??
you think I contribute nothing?
I run two alt fleets
I am in three other fleets
im in the top 10 in EACH of them
in a few I have paid to open the blast doors (outright)
I contribute doffs by the score and enough marks to set off several projects each day (spread across my various duties)
I just don't gripe about it
money is meaningless
which you should be leaving to lower ranks to gain
no it doesn't
failures do not "lock you out"
you will
those lowbies are the next generation of Fleet admirals (your future bosses)
Lol, you sound like a Vulcan. But yeah, I fully agree.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
totally unimportant
if you are BUYING doffs at those prices you are feeding the ferengi
Doffs are readily available in large numbers
at NO cost
stealth usually COSTS the mission
I have run this many times with teams in the low range we average 25 marks and a total clean sheet on the corner sabs
largely because we don't stealth or spread out a bunch of drones and blow the end mission
and it should be a DAY if you leave the mission instead of staying with it
as the proposed FA rank will come in time and it will be in their time not yours
with that kind of logic, and considering that you are completely submerged in this roleplay i think i'm your boss right now, since i am Vice admiral, and you are not.
So, i regret to inform you that you have been discharged from starfleet. Please leave the keys to your ship at my secretaries office by Friday.
signed, Vice Admiral Raudl
the answer you gave there just perfectly shows in what kind of messed up dream reality you are right now.
Not your opinions themselfes disqualify you from any discussion on the forums. It's the way you present them and think they are superior to any other opinion, even if they make no sense at all, and are way off reality.
the point is you were retired a long time ago
He thinks he needs to spend money to get doffs (you don't)
you think a person who is a VA out ranks captains (he doesn't)
all VA's are desk officers