In a small fleet, the admirals very much need to be earning fleet marks. New players could be contributing the data samples they get doing standard content and getting their five marks daily from officer of the watch missions. Fleet missions are not meant to be where one levels up. They will have much more fun when they come back after leveling and can actually kill things.
it's intended that "lowbies" get all the marks in events where if they were all
teamed together they may actually earn zero marks? I'm mainly speaking of the space
missions here as I tend to avoid the flashlight ground mission you were speaking of. If there were a team of all non admirals in the fleet alert they would maybe get five marks out of a total seventeen. Seems to me the mission is dependent on and designed for admirals.
Exclude anyone over the rank of captain from Fleet starbase actions of ALL kinds
and award 1 (yes 1 ) fleet mark per stf where the optional is failed
marks are the way the lower ranks in a fleet (ie the majority of players) can contribute
What are you talking about? Are you referring to fleet ranks or player level ranks? This discussion is about low level players entering fleet missions against level 52 NPCs. If this is what you are talking about, then your statement is incorrect. The 'majority of players' are at max level. This has been stated multiple times by the devs.
Admirals do Dilith , doffs , commodities and expertise
lowbies do marks
And on whose authority do you say this? If you want to do it this way in your own fleet, go right ahead. But you really have no authority to dictate this other fleets.
Seriously, where do you get this stuff?
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
if you really think the majority is max level you aren't paying attention
LOL. I pay attention just fine. If you think you are right, please provide your evidence. Until you do, you're just blowing hot air out of your behind.
There have been several interviews with different devs on various podcasts where it's been stated that the majority of players are max level now. That is why all the NEW content upcoming is focused on stuff for max level players to do. Get your facts straight.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
This topic is so elitist. So everyone who has a T3 or lower ship has never played the game or has any idea of how skills work in general? Please... Tier 5 ships are not the only ships that can do Fleet Events because lower level characters need to contribute to Fleets as well. As hard as this may be for any VA elitist to understand, the Fleet Starbase system was not just constructed for you but entire fleets as well.
If you want to penalise players because you do not get the objective EVERY single time then I seriously suggest you grow up, or just go by an escort.
This is "Allow Me (the Elitist) to kick people from STF's if we don't get the optionals" all over again.
And before you ask, I have 4 VA Characters myself, I do not complain about such a "problem". I think people have to understand that this is a casual game and does not penalise the player in the same way other MMO's do. I am sorry but if you do not have the patience to have one bad match up out of 20 or 30 then somebody needs therapy.
The topic is not elitist at all. Having a separation between the player levels will ensure better that everybody will get the rewards. A lt/lt commander queue would have more chances of getting loot and achieve mission goals than a lt - va mixed team.
On the other hand, no matter how you separate queues, there will be that cpt Kirk that will go his own way, not giving a damn about the team and mission objectives. Examples are plenty in stfs/pvp. Still, I think a few levels of separation would be a good idea.
Hear! Sons of Kahless
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
over half of players are now FTP and the MAJORITY of them are captain or lower
Again, please provide the evidence. I've provided mine. Without anything to back this up, you really have no credibility. You can continue to argue like a 6 year old with "Yes it is/ no it isn't" type arguments, but it doesn't get you anywhere.
And as for the original topic, yes I agree that lower level players should have their own instance just like mirror event.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
but no you gave no evidence you said "devs say"
well it was right BEFORE Ftp
now maxed characters are the minority
Actually, you have that backward. That may have been true when F2P first started back in January. But now, most of those new players are maxed. You don't think players max in 6 months? You can do that now just by doffing.
Just listen to the most recent interview with Dan Stahl on Priority One podcast. That's probably the most up to date interview with the statement that most players are at max level now.
Seriously, the more you keep insisting that most players are low level, the less credibility you have on these boards.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Okay,let's assume the majority of active players are below VA. Is there's more than enough active VAs to keep Fleet events populated?
Another thing, wtf is this thread about?
1) no one suggested to make fleet events unavailable to non-VAs
2) non-VA players can still contribute by earning fleet marks in rank/accolade pt phased events
3) only sollvax suggested to exclude VAs from participating in Fleet events
Since Sollvax is highly likely to be trolling, I see no reason for any debate.
As im not "trolling" i suggest you play a few hundred of these missions and WATCH the VA's mess them up
Those that do are idiots or do not understand basic gameplay. Nothing out of the ordinary, since everybody hits VA before they know most of the game mechanics.
If 'lowbies' bother you, ignore them - seriously - why are you worrying about what they're doing (or not doing) anyway?!
I for one don't mind them being there at all, and feel that it provides a new element to PvE gameplay. And as said earlier, I generally try to throw heals their way when am able, as well as bailing them out when they 'bite off more than they can chew'.
And I am not interested in the 'they shouldn't be there in the first place' type arguments. They are. FACT. Stop crying about the supposed game-breaking disadvantage that they present, stop taking their presence as a personal insult and concentrate on the blasted game!
I'll also add another point - we've all encountered the rainbow boat players. I'll take a good 'lowbie' with a well set-up ship over a T5 player who thinks that rainbow boats are the dogs doodahs anyday.
And personally, if I were a 'lowbie' myself I would LOVE participating in the fleet events with players of every level and skill. I suspect the current 'lowbies' do - and THAT is damned important, as it'll keep them coming back!
How quickly we forget that we were 'lowbies' ourselves once.
The problem is that even the best team can only take so many DPS losses from low-level ships before the timer becomes impossible to achieve the objectives within.
They bother us because their ships, however skilled the player within may be, are undergeared. I mean really, 3-6 weapons isn't the same as 7-8, even when the marks ARE matched, which they are not as the low-level players cannot equip mark 10-12 gear.
That may or may not be a waste of a good heal, I can't tell for sure.
Except it isn't a SUPPOSED game-breaking disadvantage, it is a PROVEN one. Here's a little experiment: Take 4 very bad VAs into a fleet action. Then, once you're done, take 4 low-level players (low-level ships piloted by VAs will suffice) into that same fleet action. Note the large difference in the timers as you're forced to literally carry the second team through the mission due to their ships being completely useless with their limited weapon slots and their low-mark weaponry (damage, contrary to popular belief, is NOT buffed by level-scaling, at least not for players and maybe not for NPCs). I'd rather take the 4 bad VAs, possibly still using mark 8 gear, over the 4 skilled Lieutenants or Lieutenant Commanders using 50% or less of what the VAs have, marks 1-4 and standard issue, because they CANNOT provide the DPS or the healing or even the debuffing and crowd control of the admiral-level ships.
Again, that rainbow (I should know, I've used rainbows myself) will be superior to the severely outgunned (by the rainbow) Mirandas and Novas or Connies or whatever they're taking at that rank.
Possibly, but the handicap of such teams should be acknowledged by the game, otherwise their presence is ruining the game for the VAs who actually CAN deal the damage and provide the heals and whatevers that the low-level players cannot do regardless of skill.
And how quickly we forget that some of us may have stuck to stuff like pre-season-6 fleet actions (Starbase 24 and the like, rank-based), Ker'rat (grinding dilithium at that time, I believe), story missions, and the occasional patrol? None of those give a player the chance to undermine (through a bad or severely undergeared - or in the new fleet actions, both - ship) the team, because in most of the above there IS no team.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Oh lookie. Another sock puppet account used to attack yet another player.
Pity we don't have any actual moderators on these forums who can deal with this issue.
You do realize sollvax has been called a troll by a LOT of people on the forums, mostly with good reason? I even got an infraction once after doing so, which disproves your second point. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
You do realize sollvax has been called a troll by a LOT of people on the forums, mostly with good reason? I even got an infraction once after doing so, which disproves your second point. :P
No it just means you got caught and the rest of them got ignored.
There's a moderation problem on this forum. That post is over 14 hours old. It's a personal attack. It shouldn't be there anymore.
Flaming and/or Trolling
You may not post content which contains insults to other users or Perfect World Entertainment Staff, are specifically made to create undue discontent on the forums, disturbances in forum threads, pick fights or otherwise promote unfriendly conversation.
But hey the mods here ignore hate speech as well so it;s all good.
I completely agree with the OP. Currently low-level characters are completely worthless in Fleet Actions. Period. If you enter a Fleet Alert and see two Mirandas lurking around, you know you?re going to fail.
There are a number of ways this could be fixed. Add additional time for each lowbie, have seperate brackets for each rank (similar to mirror or SB24) or have a flexible number of players (1 VA = 2 CPT = 4 CMDR etc...).
It's designed to allow fleet mates to join with each other, regardless of level. This should however, be only with private sessions. Public sessions really should be segmented.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
When the fleet action begins spawn ships as normal
Low tier ships spawn at lt
mid tier ships spawn at commander
High tier ships spawn at captain
and "end game " tier ships at end game levels
then each ship Targets ships of its own level or higher if no equal exists
grant marks to the team only if the same tier of ships as themself is destroyed
(thus clearing the orion corvettes would award marks to Lt's and Lt commanders and ONLY them)
and Admirals would have to take on the really big stuff to score anything
as is should be
you do realize, that one torpedo spread or scatter volley or fire at will from a VA can take care of the lower NPC's that spawn? leaving nothing to kill to the lowbies...and the VA NPC's just oneshot lower players...
you can't just sepperate it like that inside the same zone.
in the end...VA's would "accidently" just clear all enemies "reserved" for the Ltd's
no srsly...good suggestions have been presented allready in this thread.
Further debating about it, makes no sense.
The scaling up of lower players to VA is broken...they don't have the abilities (boffpowers, etc)
Cryptic should have let them have their own tier of fleet events and only mix VA's with RA's as it is in all the other older fleet actions.
Comments
its content for THEM
lowbies do marks
plz stop telling other what to do and how to do it...you are embarasing yourself again.
it's everyones own choice what and how they contribute to their fleet
so let the low guys contribute and stop trying to lock them out
teamed together they may actually earn zero marks? I'm mainly speaking of the space
missions here as I tend to avoid the flashlight ground mission you were speaking of. If there were a team of all non admirals in the fleet alert they would maybe get five marks out of a total seventeen. Seems to me the mission is dependent on and designed for admirals.
What are you talking about? Are you referring to fleet ranks or player level ranks? This discussion is about low level players entering fleet missions against level 52 NPCs. If this is what you are talking about, then your statement is incorrect. The 'majority of players' are at max level. This has been stated multiple times by the devs.
Why? Based on what? Did I miss something that said that this content is for low level players specifically?
And on whose authority do you say this? If you want to do it this way in your own fleet, go right ahead. But you really have no authority to dictate this other fleets.
Seriously, where do you get this stuff?
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
LOL. I pay attention just fine. If you think you are right, please provide your evidence. Until you do, you're just blowing hot air out of your behind.
There have been several interviews with different devs on various podcasts where it's been stated that the majority of players are max level now. That is why all the NEW content upcoming is focused on stuff for max level players to do. Get your facts straight.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The topic is not elitist at all. Having a separation between the player levels will ensure better that everybody will get the rewards. A lt/lt commander queue would have more chances of getting loot and achieve mission goals than a lt - va mixed team.
On the other hand, no matter how you separate queues, there will be that cpt Kirk that will go his own way, not giving a damn about the team and mission objectives. Examples are plenty in stfs/pvp. Still, I think a few levels of separation would be a good idea.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean.
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill...
Again, please provide the evidence. I've provided mine. Without anything to back this up, you really have no credibility. You can continue to argue like a 6 year old with "Yes it is/ no it isn't" type arguments, but it doesn't get you anywhere.
And as for the original topic, yes I agree that lower level players should have their own instance just like mirror event.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
but no you gave no evidence you said "devs say"
well it was right BEFORE Ftp
now maxed characters are the minority
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
Actually, you have that backward. That may have been true when F2P first started back in January. But now, most of those new players are maxed. You don't think players max in 6 months? You can do that now just by doffing.
Just listen to the most recent interview with Dan Stahl on Priority One podcast. That's probably the most up to date interview with the statement that most players are at max level now.
Seriously, the more you keep insisting that most players are low level, the less credibility you have on these boards.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
and actually at least a dozen people a DAY are joining (I see them)
all lowbies
but hey you are sure you are right
so we will leave it there
Another thing, wtf is this thread about?
1) no one suggested to make fleet events unavailable to non-VAs
2) non-VA players can still contribute by earning fleet marks in rank/accolade pt phased events
3) only sollvax suggested to exclude VAs from participating in Fleet events
Since Sollvax is highly likely to be trolling, I see no reason for any debate.
Those that do are idiots or do not understand basic gameplay. Nothing out of the ordinary, since everybody hits VA before they know most of the game mechanics.
The problem is that even the best team can only take so many DPS losses from low-level ships before the timer becomes impossible to achieve the objectives within.
They bother us because their ships, however skilled the player within may be, are undergeared. I mean really, 3-6 weapons isn't the same as 7-8, even when the marks ARE matched, which they are not as the low-level players cannot equip mark 10-12 gear.
That may or may not be a waste of a good heal, I can't tell for sure.
Except it isn't a SUPPOSED game-breaking disadvantage, it is a PROVEN one. Here's a little experiment: Take 4 very bad VAs into a fleet action. Then, once you're done, take 4 low-level players (low-level ships piloted by VAs will suffice) into that same fleet action. Note the large difference in the timers as you're forced to literally carry the second team through the mission due to their ships being completely useless with their limited weapon slots and their low-mark weaponry (damage, contrary to popular belief, is NOT buffed by level-scaling, at least not for players and maybe not for NPCs). I'd rather take the 4 bad VAs, possibly still using mark 8 gear, over the 4 skilled Lieutenants or Lieutenant Commanders using 50% or less of what the VAs have, marks 1-4 and standard issue, because they CANNOT provide the DPS or the healing or even the debuffing and crowd control of the admiral-level ships.
Again, that rainbow (I should know, I've used rainbows myself) will be superior to the severely outgunned (by the rainbow) Mirandas and Novas or Connies or whatever they're taking at that rank.
Possibly, but the handicap of such teams should be acknowledged by the game, otherwise their presence is ruining the game for the VAs who actually CAN deal the damage and provide the heals and whatevers that the low-level players cannot do regardless of skill.
And how quickly we forget that some of us may have stuck to stuff like pre-season-6 fleet actions (Starbase 24 and the like, rank-based), Ker'rat (grinding dilithium at that time, I believe), story missions, and the occasional patrol? None of those give a player the chance to undermine (through a bad or severely undergeared - or in the new fleet actions, both - ship) the team, because in most of the above there IS no team.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Oh lookie. Another sock puppet account used to attack yet another player.
Pity we don't have any actual moderators on these forums who can deal with this issue.
You do realize sollvax has been called a troll by a LOT of people on the forums, mostly with good reason? I even got an infraction once after doing so, which disproves your second point. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
No it just means you got caught and the rest of them got ignored.
There's a moderation problem on this forum. That post is over 14 hours old. It's a personal attack. It shouldn't be there anymore.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/announcement.php?f=20&a=51
But hey the mods here ignore hate speech as well so it;s all good.
I don't think that's a personal attack unless it's a lie? He's been spreading misinformation and flawed perspectives throughout the entire forums?
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
There are a number of ways this could be fixed. Add additional time for each lowbie, have seperate brackets for each rank (similar to mirror or SB24) or have a flexible number of players (1 VA = 2 CPT = 4 CMDR etc...).
The state it?s currently in it?s complete BS.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
(and its a simple one)
Drop the scaling
When the fleet action begins spawn ships as normal
Low tier ships spawn at lt
mid tier ships spawn at commander
High tier ships spawn at captain
and "end game " tier ships at end game levels
then each ship Targets ships of its own level or higher if no equal exists
grant marks to the team only if the same tier of ships as themself is destroyed
(thus clearing the orion corvettes would award marks to Lt's and Lt commanders and ONLY them)
and Admirals would have to take on the really big stuff to score anything
as is should be
you do realize, that one torpedo spread or scatter volley or fire at will from a VA can take care of the lower NPC's that spawn? leaving nothing to kill to the lowbies...and the VA NPC's just oneshot lower players...
you can't just sepperate it like that inside the same zone.
in the end...VA's would "accidently" just clear all enemies "reserved" for the Ltd's
no srsly...good suggestions have been presented allready in this thread.
Further debating about it, makes no sense.
The scaling up of lower players to VA is broken...they don't have the abilities (boffpowers, etc)
Cryptic should have let them have their own tier of fleet events and only mix VA's with RA's as it is in all the other older fleet actions.
because the Va has just done their job
meanwhile the Va fails the mission
and maybe will learn not to go out of his way to brutalise the others