It should be giving you warning bells that the majority of your current die hard player base have either left, threatening to leave, and are telling you that your killing the game.
Personally as it stands with these changes, i will also be leaving to play a game that's fun (most likely star wars). Currently i've one VA and am levelling up another toon and i'm enjoying the existing game. DO yourself a favour and rethink the hatchet job that you're doing.
I have four Vice Admirals, three Lieutenant Generals, two Commanders and a Lieutenant Commander as well as a few Lieutenants. Have a Lifetime Subscription, bought several of the old balanced-ish ships, bought character slots a couple of times and a species from the Store. Some of those purchases were during the content drought (mainly the character slots, since while others were complaining about it I was spending money to support the game and to create alts to level).
That should paint me as a fairly dedicated and invested player. Ever since the Rhode Island I've had trouble finding the desire to log in, and everything since just compounds that.
I've been vocal about this. Thing is... no one on the other side of the fence really cares when it comes to the C-Store. Never have. Sure, they listen to feedback but if it's about their microtransactions they just immediately bin it and pretend it never existed afterwards. Whenever they have a plan involving the C-Store then come hell or high water they will implement it. And if we don't like it? Tough.
If I cared more I'd make a sig with a picture of Nero captioned with: "MONETIZE EVERYTHING!" but I honestly just don't care enough to do anything like that anymore. I barely log on these days, and I rarely read the forums because, well... why bother? Nothing good will come of it since my problems are all C-Store-related and because of this they will never really be addressed. This has been the case since beta, and has continued to be the case as the goal posts involving the C-Store have moved time and time again (it's almost a monthly thing).
So, yeah, they hear the warning bells. They know most of us aren't going to be here a month or two from now... but, so what? They have a plan where all the new Silvers will sustain them and make them money, and that plan involves driving everyone to the C-Store, and thus that plan WILL come to fruition. Doesn't matter if we leave. Doesn't matter if we tell them that no one is going to want to play the game, and that they won't be making the money they expect to with these changes because in order for them to work people have to want to play the game. It doesn't matter because they just don't bother paying any real attention to any feedback that involves the Store.
Hey, I should be a hard guy to lose. I am loyal to a fault. Quite literally. Again, I was buying stuff during the drought instead of complaining. And yet... here we are.
But does it matter? Obviously not. Not to anyone making these sorts of decisions anyway.
The basics of crafting haven't been altered... except that they have.
Not only do I now have to farm for anomalies and rare traces but dilithium too. You really don't seem to have any idea why people play STO or how they play it, but you've been decently responsive with changes in the face of criticism so far.
Crafting does not need to use dilithium. Dilithium gets enough use as it is.
Morning guys! (and girls, though probably mostly guys )
I have two new thoughts to add:
One - What good alternative ideas have been suggested so far?
1. Add an EC sink instead of the dilithium
2. Increase the needed amount of anomalies and remove dilithium (to account for the huge number you can get from the doff system)
3. Gold/LTS players do not have the dilithium cost, only silver players do.
All three of those sound good to me. Anyone have any other good suggestions to add to the list?
My other thought:
I've noticed quite a few lurkers and "I rarely post here, but. . . " are posting in this thread. That says a lot about the reaction of the player base as a whole. But I find it fascinating that Cryptic keeps posting these "new ideas" right on the front page where everyone can see them. Think about it. If they had just posted this in. for example, the tribble feedback section of the forum, many of us would not have heard about it nearly as quickly as we did PLUS many others would not have heard about it at all.
At least they are telegraphing these bad ideas publicly and obviously AND giving us a way to rapidly express our discontent. I'm grateful for that.
Now then . . . . . GET RID OF THE DILITHIUM CRAFTING SINK . . . .please.
Please please please get rid of the dilithium in crafting. This completely breaks any fleet crafting programs as well as multi-toon players having the ability to have one crafting character.
cryptic, honestly, enough is enough with the dilithium. Either drop it from crafting, or drop the refining cap. this is one instance where having your dilithium cake and eating it too is HIGHLY unadvisable.
I still don't see a developer response here to the level of disgust and disappointment expressed by the vast majority of players.
The longer you take to admit to TRIBBLE up and fix it by removing this unconditionally repulsive and abusive change the easier it will be for me to advise potential players to avoid STO like the plague.
I still don't see a developer response here to the level of disgust and disappointment expressed by the vast majority of players.
The longer you take to admit to TRIBBLE up and fix it by removing this unconditionally repulsive and abusive change the easier it will be for me to advise potential players to avoid STO like the plague.
We're waiting.
Well, it's 7:20 am right now, Cryptic time (PST). I doubt many of them are even at work yet.
I wouldn't expect to see a response for a few hours at least....
More likely, this afternoon, judging by the time most of the Dev posts have been going out lately.
I too would like to see a response, preferably one rescinding this course of action. :mad:
I'm starting to wonder if all of this is now intentional on the studio's part. Maybe by continuing to sail the ship into the rocks they are somehow attempting to sabotage the game. The only way I see this whole mess ending is with a bunch of layoffs and a black eye on future products.
A seven month content drought followed by a haphazard free to play revamp, that brings a skeleton amount of new things to do while alienating the last few paying customers left funding the project.....
I fear after December 12th dreams of a fully realized Star Trek MMO are going to be a sour memory in the minds of jaded players.
I've given up, fallen earth is now free to play and offers more content in the first large zone than STO does in it's entire gameworld.
I still don't see a developer response here to the level of disgust and disappointment expressed by the vast majority of players.
The longer you take to admit to TRIBBLE up and fix it by removing this unconditionally repulsive and abusive change the easier it will be for me to advise potential players to avoid STO like the plague.
We're waiting.
I will tell you exactly what the devs will say.... "we appreciate the comunitys feedback and we will take everything said on board and we will look at the data we have and we will have a meeting to discuss what to do and get back to you"......
And then a week later in the next tribble patch the dilithium cost will be dropped somewhere to around a half to 1/4 the cost it currently is.... then a good chunk of the forum posters will be placated and give up rioting and then we are left stuck in screwed town !
I am sorry right now that I paid untuil january next year for subscription, otherwise will rage quit today. I am a crafter and right now you have to bust your booty doing explorations to get if lucky 4 or 5 items, miost of the time is just 2 and the rare items takes forever to get. Why are you TRIBBLE us this bad, what the hell the crafters have done to you devs that you want us screwed this bad?
I agree. BUT, I still have to wonder who on the team thought this was a good idea? Because it worries me that that same person might be thinking up other "good ideas" like this later =|
My momma used to say...stupid is as stupid does.....seems they are plenty stupid.
As I post this, the staff at Cryptic should be starting their day, Friday.. so I have this to add...
1) Restore the VA ship token to Gold members..(No pun intended)..
2) Restore ALL VA level ships that exist now on Holodeck to Gold. F2P should still pay via the C-store..
3) Remove the Dillithium cost from crafting.. replace ONLY with EC's..
4) Re-train the employee responsible for coming up with this silly idea.. Clearly they're in the wrong job...
5) Turn off the servers NOW.. because you will have to soon anyway...
My logic for 5 is thus:-
Any potential & rational person considering coming to STO once F2P arrives, is probably reading the forums.. I sure as hell would be... & seeing the response's that these (quite franky moronic) changes being made to the game are, would be thinking, "Do I really want to play this ?". The answer will more than likely be "No I do NOT"... So "way-to-go guys", drive away your new players before they've even logged in for the first time...
I want to be positive about the changes, the Doff system, (which still need tweaking), the upgraded UI, ship shield effects, the KDF Academy etc... which just shows that the Dev's can do improvements to this great game...
BUT.. stop this madness with Dillithium now.. before you drive this game into total meltdown.... :eek:
Okay guys, here is the deal how to save crafting. Either keep it the way it is right now on Holodeck, or do it as I suggest:
Finally introduce MK XII gear to the playerbase on a regular basis, or get rid of MK XI gear until the level cap is raised. Either way, the BASIC idea of introducing odd numbered marks in crafting is fine with me, no problem at all, HOWEVER for Eris' sake keep that Dilithium thing OUT of crafting! It's already everywhere and where Dilithium is, real money comes automatically into play as well.
This is how the gear should be like:
Mark 1 - Level 1 to 6
Mark 2 - Level 4 to 11
Mark 3 - Level 10 to 16
Mark 4 - Level 14 to 21
Mark 5 - Level 20 to 26
Mark 6 - Level 24 to 31
Mark 7 - Level 30 to 36
Mark 8 - Level 34 to 41
Mark 9 - Level 40 to 46
Mark 10 - Level 44 to 51
Mark 11 - Level 50 to 56
Mark 12 - Level 54 to 61
Soo ... as you can see, there are maps with enemies higher than level 51, some go up to 55 such as in Qay'ghun (Klingon ground war zone) or in Ker'rat (Federation space war zone) which are already dropping MK XII gear sometimes, since it starts at level 54 upwards. When the DS9 fleet action was still active for VA players, the Fox Hunt space part enemies also leveled up to 58 even and always dropped MK XII gear which was a good way to obtain some MK XII stuff.
However, if you should decide to either stick with MK XI gear and keep MK XII gear out of play, or if you should allow MK XII gear to be obtainable at some parts, it doesn't matter how you treat crafting. Let me show you how crafting should be like:
Red Samples - Mark 1 and 2
Skyblue Samples - Mark 3 and 4
Green Samples - Mark 5 and 6
Indigo Samples - Mark 7 and 8
Tan Samples - Mark 9 and 10
Purple Samples - Mark 11 (and 12)
Rare Samples - Very Rare Gear (Marks 4, 6, 8, 10 and 11)
Very rare gear of odd marks (Mark 11 excluded) should not even cost you any of the rare anomaly samples, as it is at best just as good as uncommon or maybe rare even marked gear which doesn't cost you any of the rare anomalies up to now either.
If you wish to improve crafting, then give the players something to craft which cannot be obtained through any other playable way except drops. Let's say very rare even marked ship consoles for example (up to Mark 10) or to be more specific rare or very rare Tetryon weapons at Mark 6 level which you should not be able to get anywhere else except drops (which is very rare indeed).
Dilithium is supposed to be spent on ships and C-store stuff (converted to C-points). Energy credits are supposed to be spent on bridge officer skills, bridge officers at common level at the vendor, common gear at vendors, etc.). Latinum is supposed to be spent on the holo-emitters and other goodies related to Dabo. Data samples are supposed to be exchanged at Memory Alpha for crafting. Let me quote Third Talak'talan: That is the order of things! Please do not destroy crafting completely. It has never been a strong side of the game, but that doesn't mean it has to be crippled even further.
~ Meow
PS: Jan 2011 says my reg date on the forum, but infact I have been playing with another account since headstart back in Jan 2010. Just as an information, if you thought some random newbie wants to have a say in how things should be run.
I will tell you exactly what the devs will say.... "we appreciate the comunitys feedback and we will take everything said on board and we will look at the data we have and we will have a meeting to discuss what to do and get back to you"......
And then a week later in the next tribble patch the dilithium cost will be dropped somewhere to around a half to 1/4 the cost it currently is.... then a good chunk of the forum posters will be placated and give up rioting and then we are left stuck in screwed town !
We will have to make it a point to be up their *** until this antiplayer foolishness is entirely removed. The one power we do wield as players is to spread interest in the game or to spread a bad reputation. I've no problems with helping this ship sink if the captain's trying to throw us overboard.
Just another small addendum idea: Quad cannons could be one of these neat crafting-only items! You'd have to spend 2 dual cannon schematics and - if you really need to add it - a rare particle trace sample for let's say an uncommon or a rare quad cannon item. And with another rare trace, very rare.
I do not post often however I would like to share my thoughts as well. I have a LTS and also purchased the DDE ect to get some of the exclusive goodies that came with it.
I did it because I love Star Trek. I love the ideals that the shows are based on, respect, tolerance, compassion and how society can get to a point in history where the betterment of humankind is the endgame. I had great hopes that I would be able to experience this "virtual future" in STO.
Granted the game was and still is to a large extent very rough around the edges, however I had hope that in time things would be added that would enhance the "Trek" feel of the game. Especially as a lifer I felt that I had all the time in the world to wait as the game continued to grow. An example of the positive growth I was looking for is the DOFF system. It truly is an example of additional Trek like immersion that I am looking for.
I am deeply concerned about where the game is headed. There have been too many promises discarded, too much feedback ignored. I agree with all who have said that at the moment Tribble is an exercise in how much they can fleece us for before they lose us all. In my opinion the strength and core of this games fortune lies in those who play the game now. We are the fans who like myself are here to enjoy a real "Trek" experience. One that I have been happy to pay for not only with my LTS but in all the C Store points I have bought to buy things that for me further enhanced that experience.
If the planned F2P model brings in loads of new players then fantastic. More money should mean more development and more meaningful and immersive additions to the game such as the DOFF system. However, I firmly believe that with the ebb and flow of the "free" players who will come an go as the next new "shiny" MMO appears, it is the core base of players who play now that will be the anchor for this games success.
With each new "improvement "to the game that playerbase is being shown how much we are truly valued. If the devs were to state that gold and lifetime members would have all the things they currently have with nothing taken away and everything to gain in terms of meaningful content then I would have no issues with these sweeping changes. Let the "free" players pay through the nose as is obviously the intent. Be content to grab as much money as you can from them before their ADD requires them to move on to the next "big" thing.
I am here to play a great "Star Trek" game and I will happily continue to support the game with purchases that enhance my experience of it. I will not support a game that turns into nothing more then a moneygrab. I find these changes deplorable and offensive to the spirit of Star Trek and the loyal fans that have stuck with this game through the ups and downs.
In summary in case my point got lost in this long post.
I do not agree nor support these changes to crafting.
My apologies for the long post but as so many else have already said more eloquently then myself.
I will not sacrifice the "spirit" of Star Trek!!! We have made two many compromises already, too many retreats. They make the game PTW and we fall back, they make the game into pay or grind and we fall back. Not again!!! The line must be drawn here!!! This far, no further!!! And with these changes I WILL NOT PAY!!!!!!
I implore the devs to rethink the road they are on. If not just rename the game "C-Store online" and lets drop the illusions about what this game is/has become.
Most horrible Idea ever agree whit most of the stuff posted above recall the Dilithium crafting preferably make it a Energy Credit sinc. don't use a nontransferable currency to Craft it will kill crafting.
Lack of content people always complain, i know developing new tech is also content but many people don't see it that way, they want stuff to do in-game & hard locking down crafting will only give people something "less to do" & defeats the crafting purpose... we already have to grind too hard & get lucky to get the right rare samples that we need to make crafting even happen in the first place.
P.S.
It's already bad enough that the game has been turned in too a tunnel shooter that limits freedom of moving freely in space by forcing us to follow you're mission line up... that's exactly why "I" don't play console games (I know PC games have it) but having that leaking to STO one of the worst moves yet.
300+ posts and counting of people who think this is a terrible idea.
I don't think there's been a single post that has defended this change.
The closest I've seen are a few apathetic posts that say "I don't care," or "This doesn't affect me."
Do you have any idea how rare it is to see a unanimous consensus on a forum, after that many posts ?
Extremely.
30 pages of people who think this change is terrible in just over 2/3 of a day.
I wonder how many pages we'll be up to by 24 hours.
I'm starting to wonder if all of this is now intentional on the studio's part. Maybe by continuing to sail the ship into the rocks they are somehow attempting to sabotage the game.
My son asked this morning if Cryptic was getting paid by Bioware to sabotage STO to drive other players over to TOR. He's only 14 and even he can see the greed and insanity in this change. Lest someone call me out for trolling, I will say this--I know that PW/Cryptic have to make a profit to stay in business. I have no issue with them doing things that make money. But when that means making the game a huge grindfest instead of a fun activity, that's just plain wrong.
The only way I see this whole mess ending is with a bunch of layoffs and a black eye on future products.
Yeah, I thought about trying out Neverwinter, being a huge NWN fan. After all this, however, I can see how the f2p is going to work there, too. No thanks.
We will have to make it a point to be up their *** until this antiplayer foolishness is entirely removed. The one power we do wield as players is to spread interest in the game or to spread a bad reputation. I've no problems with helping this ship sink if the captain's trying to throw us overboard.
I have already talked quite a few people out of playing this game when it goes free to play.
I even recruited a friend of mine a little bit ago before all this free to play nonsense started and now regret ever bringing him over to this game given the anti-player direction it is taking.
And for me personally I do not care what they do now as they will never have my trust back with them as a company.Any changes they make will be to little to late in my eyes.
Seems Cryptic has gotten very adept at taking two steps forward by lowering dilithium costs of items from vendors to much better levels and reinstating the ship tokens etc only to take 4 steps backwards again with this unneeded and completely ridiculous crafting change.
Compared to dstahl, Steve has been pretty poor potatoes as an Executive Producer. His dev blogs tend to not have any clue as to what the playerbase is thinking, he doesn't consult with us before implementing changes, he's pretty closed mouthed about what he's doing, and then he is often factually wrong (e.g. nothing basically changing with crafting). I'm afraid he's lost my confidence in his leadership. He may or may not be a programming whiz and he may or may not be a great engineer, but as a game designer he seems to be a disaster. Of course, it's possible he's simply held hostage by PWI and has nothing to do with all these changes. It's possible that Dan left because he didn't want to have to break his word to us with PWI's demands and Steve got left holding the bag. I know that's not what was said, but the truth isn't said by people who want to keep working in this industry in these situations. Burning bridges and all that.
In any case, the game is going in a direction that will make it worse to be a player than the game is now, even without the doff system and the revamped stfs and such. It seems like the best option should these type of changes be made would be to stop testing, level your alts to the top, craft every sample you already have, spend every emblem and mark and badge you have, and just hang out without a need for any of this dilithium stuff after the f2p launch. In other words, do as much as you can with the player friendly system we have now so we don't have to grind or spend hundreds of dollars to do the same things later.
But right now I'd like to see someone else at the helm. Maybe Steve is just the sacrificial lamb, but those lambs do get sacrificed in the end.
The response has been pretty amazing and unanimous. They might have a cunning plan and we will all be pleasantly shocked and surprised but this seems a bad idea.
I'm a big fan of crafting and have nothing to add that hasn't been said in all the previous posts.
So basically I'm just saying: What has been said above +1
They know this is a big TRIBBLE to the whole playerbase. they knew the feedback this would cause. They wanted to implement it, let the uproar commence, then do it anyway.
They want us to pay money for every item we get at every tier. There is no other explanation. Way to treat subscribers who are paying to test for them.
Bingo. Welcome to Asian F2P. I doubt seriously that PWI or Cryptic cares about the crafting outrage because they ultimately want us all to buy from the C-Store.
Same reason why they are making subscriptions worthless. They want more free players paying $5 to $10 a month than to have less players paying a subscription. This change is no different.
Another player said it best, and this is typical of Asian F2P companies. They set the dilithium prices high, so as to drop the price later to "appease" us and make us think they listen and care. But guess what, we will probably when this goes live, will have to pay dilithium to craft, even if its 10% of the current dilithium prices now set.
People usually spend more when being nickel and dimed. Give yourself a weekly budget of $100 cash or $100 on a debit card with $200 in the account, guess who is likely going to go over budget. It's just another way to increase micro transactions on the c-store.
Since week one when F2P was announced, I have been virulently opposed to F2P and the stupidity behind "this is the way of the future" TRIBBLE, and this is why. People were quite harsh with me at first for my position. I wish I could say I feel more vindicated with each passing week with each blog post announcing more doom and gloom, but it just makes me more and more sad, cause I REALLY love this game.
Also, Cryptic, some advice. Seriously, you need to hire someone trained in PR who can make the spoiled milk smell like whipped cream. These announcements are only going to keep coming, such are the changes of F2P, but your going to need to find a way to make people "happier" about this TRIBBLE.
What needs to be learned is that the STO player-base is not part of an Asian market. Things that work for that kind of market will not necessarily fly here and 30+ pages of people screaming like scorched monkeys should be an eye-opener for Cryptic and PWI.
I have tried to be supportive of Cryptic and the F2P changes, the DOff system is fantastic and the Klingon Academy is great, but the crafting changes are just thoroughly ill-conceived considering established conversion rates (~336 dil/emblem), the processing rate for dilithium ore and the drop rate of same. It is like basing an economy on -pounds- of gold rather than ounces.
By my last count, in this thread there's a total of 2 people who like this idea.
Including myself, there's 162 people (and counting) who do not.
This includes quite a few people who barely if ever felt the need to post before.
Whoever made this decision, i won't pretend to know who it is or cast any accusations in trying to guess, but whoever it is; you need to get your head out of your rear end. This sort of decision is just a valium and vodka mixer away from the suggestion of an NGE...
You want my money? You make sure STO is a game I want to play. The more I play it, the more i'm likely to give in and purchase c-points above and beyond my stipend for those extra goodies (and no, i'm not going to buy c-points in the vain hope that someone will be nice enough to give me a good price on dilithium). But if, as it seems, you are intent on making a game my friends and I don't really want to play, then i'm happy to go play TOR or GW2 or possibly even 'the secret world' while i wait for my stipend to accumulate enough for any trek fan induced purchases i may want.
What needs to be learned is that the STO player-base is not part of an Asian market. Things that work for that kind of market will not necessarily fly here and 30+ pages of people screaming like scorched monkeys should be an eye-opener for Cryptic and PWI.
PWE's business model works extremely well in this market and that's how they were able to buy Cryptic. Cryptic's "business model" well, it's a joke.
Comments
I have four Vice Admirals, three Lieutenant Generals, two Commanders and a Lieutenant Commander as well as a few Lieutenants. Have a Lifetime Subscription, bought several of the old balanced-ish ships, bought character slots a couple of times and a species from the Store. Some of those purchases were during the content drought (mainly the character slots, since while others were complaining about it I was spending money to support the game and to create alts to level).
That should paint me as a fairly dedicated and invested player. Ever since the Rhode Island I've had trouble finding the desire to log in, and everything since just compounds that.
I've been vocal about this. Thing is... no one on the other side of the fence really cares when it comes to the C-Store. Never have. Sure, they listen to feedback but if it's about their microtransactions they just immediately bin it and pretend it never existed afterwards. Whenever they have a plan involving the C-Store then come hell or high water they will implement it. And if we don't like it? Tough.
If I cared more I'd make a sig with a picture of Nero captioned with: "MONETIZE EVERYTHING!" but I honestly just don't care enough to do anything like that anymore. I barely log on these days, and I rarely read the forums because, well... why bother? Nothing good will come of it since my problems are all C-Store-related and because of this they will never really be addressed. This has been the case since beta, and has continued to be the case as the goal posts involving the C-Store have moved time and time again (it's almost a monthly thing).
So, yeah, they hear the warning bells. They know most of us aren't going to be here a month or two from now... but, so what? They have a plan where all the new Silvers will sustain them and make them money, and that plan involves driving everyone to the C-Store, and thus that plan WILL come to fruition. Doesn't matter if we leave. Doesn't matter if we tell them that no one is going to want to play the game, and that they won't be making the money they expect to with these changes because in order for them to work people have to want to play the game. It doesn't matter because they just don't bother paying any real attention to any feedback that involves the Store.
Hey, I should be a hard guy to lose. I am loyal to a fault. Quite literally. Again, I was buying stuff during the drought instead of complaining. And yet... here we are.
But does it matter? Obviously not. Not to anyone making these sorts of decisions anyway.
Not only do I now have to farm for anomalies and rare traces but dilithium too. You really don't seem to have any idea why people play STO or how they play it, but you've been decently responsive with changes in the face of criticism so far.
Crafting does not need to use dilithium. Dilithium gets enough use as it is.
I have two new thoughts to add:
One - What good alternative ideas have been suggested so far?
1. Add an EC sink instead of the dilithium
2. Increase the needed amount of anomalies and remove dilithium (to account for the huge number you can get from the doff system)
3. Gold/LTS players do not have the dilithium cost, only silver players do.
All three of those sound good to me.
My other thought:
I've noticed quite a few lurkers and "I rarely post here, but. . . " are posting in this thread. That says a lot about the reaction of the player base as a whole. But I find it fascinating that Cryptic keeps posting these "new ideas" right on the front page where everyone can see them. Think about it. If they had just posted this in. for example, the tribble feedback section of the forum, many of us would not have heard about it nearly as quickly as we did PLUS many others would not have heard about it at all.
At least they are telegraphing these bad ideas publicly and obviously AND giving us a way to rapidly express our discontent. I'm grateful for that.
Now then . . . . . GET RID OF THE DILITHIUM CRAFTING SINK . . . .please.
The longer you take to admit to TRIBBLE up and fix it by removing this unconditionally repulsive and abusive change the easier it will be for me to advise potential players to avoid STO like the plague.
We're waiting.
Well, it's 7:20 am right now, Cryptic time (PST). I doubt many of them are even at work yet.
I wouldn't expect to see a response for a few hours at least....
More likely, this afternoon, judging by the time most of the Dev posts have been going out lately.
I too would like to see a response, preferably one rescinding this course of action. :mad:
.... but we'll see.
A seven month content drought followed by a haphazard free to play revamp, that brings a skeleton amount of new things to do while alienating the last few paying customers left funding the project.....
I fear after December 12th dreams of a fully realized Star Trek MMO are going to be a sour memory in the minds of jaded players.
I've given up, fallen earth is now free to play and offers more content in the first large zone than STO does in it's entire gameworld.
I will tell you exactly what the devs will say.... "we appreciate the comunitys feedback and we will take everything said on board and we will look at the data we have and we will have a meeting to discuss what to do and get back to you"......
And then a week later in the next tribble patch the dilithium cost will be dropped somewhere to around a half to 1/4 the cost it currently is.... then a good chunk of the forum posters will be placated and give up rioting and then we are left stuck in screwed town !
My momma used to say...stupid is as stupid does.....seems they are plenty stupid.
1) Restore the VA ship token to Gold members..(No pun intended)..
2) Restore ALL VA level ships that exist now on Holodeck to Gold. F2P should still pay via the C-store..
3) Remove the Dillithium cost from crafting.. replace ONLY with EC's..
4) Re-train the employee responsible for coming up with this silly idea.. Clearly they're in the wrong job...
5) Turn off the servers NOW.. because you will have to soon anyway...
My logic for 5 is thus:-
Any potential & rational person considering coming to STO once F2P arrives, is probably reading the forums.. I sure as hell would be... & seeing the response's that these (quite franky moronic) changes being made to the game are, would be thinking, "Do I really want to play this ?". The answer will more than likely be "No I do NOT"... So "way-to-go guys", drive away your new players before they've even logged in for the first time...
I want to be positive about the changes, the Doff system, (which still need tweaking), the upgraded UI, ship shield effects, the KDF Academy etc... which just shows that the Dev's can do improvements to this great game...
BUT.. stop this madness with Dillithium now.. before you drive this game into total meltdown.... :eek:
Finally introduce MK XII gear to the playerbase on a regular basis, or get rid of MK XI gear until the level cap is raised. Either way, the BASIC idea of introducing odd numbered marks in crafting is fine with me, no problem at all, HOWEVER for Eris' sake keep that Dilithium thing OUT of crafting! It's already everywhere and where Dilithium is, real money comes automatically into play as well.
This is how the gear should be like:
Soo ... as you can see, there are maps with enemies higher than level 51, some go up to 55 such as in Qay'ghun (Klingon ground war zone) or in Ker'rat (Federation space war zone) which are already dropping MK XII gear sometimes, since it starts at level 54 upwards. When the DS9 fleet action was still active for VA players, the Fox Hunt space part enemies also leveled up to 58 even and always dropped MK XII gear which was a good way to obtain some MK XII stuff.
However, if you should decide to either stick with MK XI gear and keep MK XII gear out of play, or if you should allow MK XII gear to be obtainable at some parts, it doesn't matter how you treat crafting. Let me show you how crafting should be like:
Very rare gear of odd marks (Mark 11 excluded) should not even cost you any of the rare anomaly samples, as it is at best just as good as uncommon or maybe rare even marked gear which doesn't cost you any of the rare anomalies up to now either.
If you wish to improve crafting, then give the players something to craft which cannot be obtained through any other playable way except drops. Let's say very rare even marked ship consoles for example (up to Mark 10) or to be more specific rare or very rare Tetryon weapons at Mark 6 level which you should not be able to get anywhere else except drops (which is very rare indeed).
Dilithium is supposed to be spent on ships and C-store stuff (converted to C-points). Energy credits are supposed to be spent on bridge officer skills, bridge officers at common level at the vendor, common gear at vendors, etc.). Latinum is supposed to be spent on the holo-emitters and other goodies related to Dabo. Data samples are supposed to be exchanged at Memory Alpha for crafting. Let me quote Third Talak'talan: That is the order of things! Please do not destroy crafting completely. It has never been a strong side of the game, but that doesn't mean it has to be crippled even further.
~ Meow
PS: Jan 2011 says my reg date on the forum, but infact I have been playing with another account since headstart back in Jan 2010. Just as an information, if you thought some random newbie wants to have a say in how things should be run.
We will have to make it a point to be up their *** until this antiplayer foolishness is entirely removed. The one power we do wield as players is to spread interest in the game or to spread a bad reputation. I've no problems with helping this ship sink if the captain's trying to throw us overboard.
Common Ground Device
Bind on Free to Play
Values do not reflect skills or other modifiers
Removes all previous Stahl Buffs
-100 Financial Debuff
-100 Fun
Just another small addendum idea: Quad cannons could be one of these neat crafting-only items! You'd have to spend 2 dual cannon schematics and - if you really need to add it - a rare particle trace sample for let's say an uncommon or a rare quad cannon item. And with another rare trace, very rare.
I did it because I love Star Trek. I love the ideals that the shows are based on, respect, tolerance, compassion and how society can get to a point in history where the betterment of humankind is the endgame. I had great hopes that I would be able to experience this "virtual future" in STO.
Granted the game was and still is to a large extent very rough around the edges, however I had hope that in time things would be added that would enhance the "Trek" feel of the game. Especially as a lifer I felt that I had all the time in the world to wait as the game continued to grow. An example of the positive growth I was looking for is the DOFF system. It truly is an example of additional Trek like immersion that I am looking for.
I am deeply concerned about where the game is headed. There have been too many promises discarded, too much feedback ignored. I agree with all who have said that at the moment Tribble is an exercise in how much they can fleece us for before they lose us all. In my opinion the strength and core of this games fortune lies in those who play the game now. We are the fans who like myself are here to enjoy a real "Trek" experience. One that I have been happy to pay for not only with my LTS but in all the C Store points I have bought to buy things that for me further enhanced that experience.
If the planned F2P model brings in loads of new players then fantastic. More money should mean more development and more meaningful and immersive additions to the game such as the DOFF system. However, I firmly believe that with the ebb and flow of the "free" players who will come an go as the next new "shiny" MMO appears, it is the core base of players who play now that will be the anchor for this games success.
With each new "improvement "to the game that playerbase is being shown how much we are truly valued. If the devs were to state that gold and lifetime members would have all the things they currently have with nothing taken away and everything to gain in terms of meaningful content then I would have no issues with these sweeping changes. Let the "free" players pay through the nose as is obviously the intent. Be content to grab as much money as you can from them before their ADD requires them to move on to the next "big" thing.
I am here to play a great "Star Trek" game and I will happily continue to support the game with purchases that enhance my experience of it. I will not support a game that turns into nothing more then a moneygrab. I find these changes deplorable and offensive to the spirit of Star Trek and the loyal fans that have stuck with this game through the ups and downs.
In summary in case my point got lost in this long post.
I do not agree nor support these changes to crafting.
My apologies for the long post but as so many else have already said more eloquently then myself.
I will not sacrifice the "spirit" of Star Trek!!! We have made two many compromises already, too many retreats. They make the game PTW and we fall back, they make the game into pay or grind and we fall back. Not again!!! The line must be drawn here!!! This far, no further!!! And with these changes I WILL NOT PAY!!!!!!
I implore the devs to rethink the road they are on. If not just rename the game "C-Store online" and lets drop the illusions about what this game is/has become.
With Respect.
Lack of content people always complain, i know developing new tech is also content but many people don't see it that way, they want stuff to do in-game & hard locking down crafting will only give people something "less to do" & defeats the crafting purpose... we already have to grind too hard & get lucky to get the right rare samples that we need to make crafting even happen in the first place.
P.S.
It's already bad enough that the game has been turned in too a tunnel shooter that limits freedom of moving freely in space by forcing us to follow you're mission line up... that's exactly why "I" don't play console games (I know PC games have it) but having that leaking to STO one of the worst moves yet.
I don't think there's been a single post that has defended this change.
The closest I've seen are a few apathetic posts that say "I don't care," or "This doesn't affect me."
Do you have any idea how rare it is to see a unanimous consensus on a forum, after that many posts ?
Extremely.
30 pages of people who think this change is terrible in just over 2/3 of a day.
I wonder how many pages we'll be up to by 24 hours.
I wonder what response we'll receive.
Yeah, I thought about trying out Neverwinter, being a huge NWN fan. After all this, however, I can see how the f2p is going to work there, too. No thanks.
I have already talked quite a few people out of playing this game when it goes free to play.
I even recruited a friend of mine a little bit ago before all this free to play nonsense started and now regret ever bringing him over to this game given the anti-player direction it is taking.
And for me personally I do not care what they do now as they will never have my trust back with them as a company.Any changes they make will be to little to late in my eyes.
Seems Cryptic has gotten very adept at taking two steps forward by lowering dilithium costs of items from vendors to much better levels and reinstating the ship tokens etc only to take 4 steps backwards again with this unneeded and completely ridiculous crafting change.
<Snip, Snip>
If ya change yer forum settings it's only 10 pages at the moment... jest sayin'
In any case, the game is going in a direction that will make it worse to be a player than the game is now, even without the doff system and the revamped stfs and such. It seems like the best option should these type of changes be made would be to stop testing, level your alts to the top, craft every sample you already have, spend every emblem and mark and badge you have, and just hang out without a need for any of this dilithium stuff after the f2p launch. In other words, do as much as you can with the player friendly system we have now so we don't have to grind or spend hundreds of dollars to do the same things later.
But right now I'd like to see someone else at the helm. Maybe Steve is just the sacrificial lamb, but those lambs do get sacrificed in the end.
I'm a big fan of crafting and have nothing to add that hasn't been said in all the previous posts.
So basically I'm just saying: What has been said above +1
Bingo. Welcome to Asian F2P. I doubt seriously that PWI or Cryptic cares about the crafting outrage because they ultimately want us all to buy from the C-Store.
Same reason why they are making subscriptions worthless. They want more free players paying $5 to $10 a month than to have less players paying a subscription. This change is no different.
Another player said it best, and this is typical of Asian F2P companies. They set the dilithium prices high, so as to drop the price later to "appease" us and make us think they listen and care. But guess what, we will probably when this goes live, will have to pay dilithium to craft, even if its 10% of the current dilithium prices now set.
People usually spend more when being nickel and dimed. Give yourself a weekly budget of $100 cash or $100 on a debit card with $200 in the account, guess who is likely going to go over budget. It's just another way to increase micro transactions on the c-store.
Since week one when F2P was announced, I have been virulently opposed to F2P and the stupidity behind "this is the way of the future" TRIBBLE, and this is why. People were quite harsh with me at first for my position. I wish I could say I feel more vindicated with each passing week with each blog post announcing more doom and gloom, but it just makes me more and more sad, cause I REALLY love this game.
Also, Cryptic, some advice. Seriously, you need to hire someone trained in PR who can make the spoiled milk smell like whipped cream. These announcements are only going to keep coming, such are the changes of F2P, but your going to need to find a way to make people "happier" about this TRIBBLE.
I have tried to be supportive of Cryptic and the F2P changes, the DOff system is fantastic and the Klingon Academy is great, but the crafting changes are just thoroughly ill-conceived considering established conversion rates (~336 dil/emblem), the processing rate for dilithium ore and the drop rate of same. It is like basing an economy on -pounds- of gold rather than ounces.
Including myself, there's 162 people (and counting) who do not.
This includes quite a few people who barely if ever felt the need to post before.
Whoever made this decision, i won't pretend to know who it is or cast any accusations in trying to guess, but whoever it is; you need to get your head out of your rear end. This sort of decision is just a valium and vodka mixer away from the suggestion of an NGE...
You want my money? You make sure STO is a game I want to play. The more I play it, the more i'm likely to give in and purchase c-points above and beyond my stipend for those extra goodies (and no, i'm not going to buy c-points in the vain hope that someone will be nice enough to give me a good price on dilithium). But if, as it seems, you are intent on making a game my friends and I don't really want to play, then i'm happy to go play TOR or GW2 or possibly even 'the secret world' while i wait for my stipend to accumulate enough for any trek fan induced purchases i may want.
PWE's business model works extremely well in this market and that's how they were able to buy Cryptic. Cryptic's "business model" well, it's a joke.
Hrm, point, though I'm using the default settings....
300 posts and counting more accurate ?
Someone earlier asked who was behind these Economy changes.
I could be wrong, but I believe it's JHeining. Can anyone confirm this ?