I'm not exactly web-savvy.. Is there a way to save this thread [...]
At the top of the page when you have this thread selected, click Thread Tools, then Printable Version. You can save that by clicking Ctrl+S, then selecting where you want to save it on your hard drive. Note that it will, of course, still be multiple pages.
I expect that by archiving and republishing an entire thread from the forums you would almost certainly violate the terms of use.
If they refuse to listen to their players, if they continue the practice of ignoring us and continuing as if we don't exist, then they deserve to have their dirty laundry aired for all to see.
If the cost is my Forum privileges, so be it.
I will, of course, wait for them to respond/fail to respond before resorting to such measures.
If they refuse to listen to their players, if they continue the practice of ignoring us and continuing as if we don't exist, then they deserve to have their dirty laundry aired for all to see.
Well, it is almost 10P.M. in California, where the Devs live.
so? they've had ALL DAY to make a post to us about this, and they haven't and now they're gonna wake up to....oh i dunno, at the rate this thread is going, twice as many pages?
Normally I am not one to jump on the bandwagon about things....
BUT...in this case I will make an exception.
When I read the patch notes....the very first thought I had was..."Well...There goes crafting"
Like most of the complaints at this time...the very idea of needing dilithium to craft things is...well..frakking insane.
Grinding dilithium is a tedius task as it is. Still debating what is worse...Emblems or Dilithium grinding.....
I see no point in crafting ever again, unless this changes back to the way it was. The way crafting is done didn't need to be changed...we just needed more unique items FROM crafting to make it worth doing. Sets like the Aegis would be nice...But don't force everyone to do it. Don't force your players into doing something they don't want to do...it will only make them not customers anymore.
So no comment from the peanut gallery that likes to call themselves Cryptic?
[listens]
what a cryptic response, i don't understand [hears nothing]
Speak up people with the yellow names, answer us...
In all fairness, the devs who tend to stay up late and post on the forums (Heretic, Gozer, and Zero) do not appear to be that heavily involved with this particular issue.
If there is no dev response after 1400 Cryptic time on the 21st, then I'll be a little concerned. (Give them time to digest the overwhelmingly negative reaction and decide on how they want to proceed.)
sounded awesome in press releases
we were all fooled.
I cannot say anything bad about Steve.
I'm sorry.
I can however say that whoever convinced Steve that this would be a good idea is a filthy Rasputin.
Poor Steve. . . .
such a good man.
such a handsome man
loves his mama
such a hard worker.
so devoted
such good intentions.
coaches PeeWee Soccer
so passionate.
loves puppies.
gives to charity.
votes even.
this whole dilithium debacle makes me sad to my bones.
If anybody is a part or participant in any STO dedicated sub-forums on other sites, may I invite and encourage you to post links there to the F2P Dev Blog #14 as well as this response thread?
If there is no dev response after 1400 Cryptic time on the 21st, then I'll be a little concerned. (Give them time to digest the overwhelmingly negative reaction and decide on how they want to proceed.)
If there is a dev response before 2200 Cryptic time on the 23rd I'll be surprised.
If its more than just a canned "we hear you (no not really)" response I'll be shocked and will eat my commbadge.
We guys from Temporal Command wear some sharp apparel if I do say so myself.
No. Really. Its very sharp. I've had to eat one before because I lost a bet with a Lethean and a Xindi over who out of the three of us had the best aim with a.... you know? now is not the time for this story.
Unfortunately this just goes to show the Devs are either completely out of touch with the playerbase, or no longer have control of their own game(due to PW). Either way its a very bad sign.
Being that I think at a higher level than most people I knew this was coming and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Heck it outta be apparently clear when a company drops 50 mil on a game like this they were not doing it as a charity and they want their money back plus some profits. SInce this game has had such a bad rep for being broken, and whatever else you can think of it was really a huge huge gamble. I'm pretty sure the PW guys were like ok we'll let you handle things to start off with and now they are seeing whoa whoa no wonder you were failing you left this little piece of TRIBBLE here out of the c-store someone will buy it. PW does nothing but cash stores and follows the free to get in 5 dollars to get out policy. Putting emphasis on that 50 million dropped that 50 million has a louder voice than the community many times over so I doubt anything anyone says in the community will stop this vampire from trying to bleed us dry every time they make something new. Also we have not yet seen the influx of pay to win personal shields, body armors, and weapons space and ground that will eventually be sold that are better than anything we will be able to get in the game (This is the way all of PW's cash stores for everyone of their games are done.
Just to add to the chorus, this is an awful change. It's a much more serious restriction on what characters are currently capable of than any other change so far, and it has a decidedly negative impact on the economy. What happens with energy credits is going to be interesting once doffs settle down, as there just isn't going to be much worth buying when dilithium is required to manufacture items.
This also negatively impacts the social aspect of the game, as having some characters with dedication to the crafting system was very useful for fleets small and large.
Of all the proposed changes to the game, this is the one I feel most strongly opposed to and the one I see most limiting my ability to change roles and generally have fun with the game. If anything, I see it encouraging me to spend less time tinkering in the game.
Either go back to the original system or if you must charge DL make it so the schematics for high level gear cost Dilithium, but way less then what it is now. Maybe like 10-25% of the retail value. This would allow players to buy them for the fleet crafters when they want something created.
I like this idea--it would make for a decent compromise. High value craftables would require a different set of schematics, which would be sold by a Memory Alpha vendor in exchange for Dilithium. A player could then buy these and give them to a crafter who could then use them to craft the item. This would allow player A to craft an item for player B while drawing upon player B's Dilithium store instead of player A's., or could even allow player C to subsidize the crafting if player B is lacking in Dilithium, yet it prevents direct trades of Dilithium (which is something that the folks at Cryptic are trying very hard to avoid).
Want Want Want soooooooo bad fot STO to not only compete with but KICK SWTOR's everloving !@#$.
Looks like i can do like my Daddy always said and Want in one hand, )(*& in the other one.
what do you end up with?
I'm starting to realize as a die hard Star Trek fan that there is a limit on how far I will go for Star Trek and Cryptic is actually defining where that line will be and I'm going to make a text Illustration of this Line.
The Fans | TV, Movies, Convetions | Where Fans no Longer Cross this Line| PW|Cryptic|
There it is... Welcome to the future of Star Trek.
Before the crafting changes we could hold out hope that high level or best gear might be acquired via means other than paying or grinding Dilithium.
What do these new changes mean?
The only way for a new instance of a piece of gear to enter the game is;
*For it to be created as a mission reward
*For it to pop in as a drop
*For Dilithium to be spent on it.
Since the first two happen so rarely (at least in terms of truly useful gear) that essentially means that they have made the ENTIRE in-game economy dependent on a time-gated grind-based currency that can, conveniently, be acquired for money via C-Points.
...
So far, Gozer revamping the STFs and Heretics Doff system are the only un-tarnished things to come out of this update so far.
...
When I read this I thought, Both systems coming from devs who have been actively soliciting feedback and suggestions on the forums from the playerbase during the design phases...
What I find fascinating about the reaction to this particular issue, is what I have not seen. I have not seen anyone supporting this idea. I'm sure there will be some -- not ragging against them, but every idea has to have an advocate or two at least -- but for now I've not seen anyone who likes the idea of dilithium being used for crafting.
I actually tried to come up with a good positive to put out, but failed.
I must disagree with the majority of people here.
Look at the full game experience as we always knew it:
Day 0: you create a toon
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral, with all purple gear and having purple\blue gear while leveling up because a fleet mate crafted them for you
Day 8: you start complaining that there is no end-game content
Day 9: you start pvping
Day 10: you finally understand game mechanincs and start complaining that pvp is unbalanced
Day XX: you quit the game
Ok here is the new game experience (for new players, not for us of course)
Day 0: you create a toon
Ok here the experience splits in two different paths, lets call them A and B
A = you have money and you want to spend it
B = you don't have money or you don't want to spend it
In A
Day 1: go to c-store and buy some .5 ships, effectively helping this game to last, paying the developers, the servers, the bandwidth, and so on..
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral
Day XX: you still have end game content, because you have to collect 30 (common borg salvage) x 4 (sets) = 120 STFs to be done.
Day YY: you start pvping
Day YYY: you don't complain anymore that pvp is unbalanced, because there are 1000 new consoles\doff_powers\combos that makes impossible for anyone to test every build. Balancing through chaos. I like it.
Day ZZZ: maybe you are still playing to get that MK XII set that can give you a little more dps in your arenas or in STFs.
In B
Same as A but you are VA with all purple gear and great ships after much more time, helping this game not in a financial way but contributing to mantain high the number of logged in players (we all remember empty sector blocks on holodeck some months ago, right?)
So, i definitely agree with all these changes and personally I would make dilithium prices even higher, for both crafted and non-crafted items..
Yeah, I don't really know what to say... The conversion rate from Emblems/Marks/Etc to Dilithium is offensively bad, and the prices for what were bread-and-butter items like Phaser arrays at even and higher marks are now prohibitively high.
This hasn't changed crafting. It's killed crafting - and now, unless you plan to make crafted items Bind on Pickup (Oh god, don't....) you can slap yourself silly in a gee-willagers comedy routine as you watch Exchange prices for those items explode in to the millions, and not one of your precious 'casual gamers' will be able to afford anything in the end game.
Why not just increase trace costs to craft "good stuff" if it takes 30 now make it 40.
This is full of so much fail.
Bad enough we can't but "common" ships with EC anymore.
Indeed, this combination makes crafting extremely hard and not really an effective way to get your gear. And basically impossible to use for "Fleet Crafters".
You need to grind those anomalies. Which basically requires you to spend all your time in Exploration Sectors, meaning you only have one Daily you can complete while getting it. But even if you do more, t here is still the refinement limit.
You need to have the luck to find the rare anomalies for the very rare gear.
And then you need to buy anything missing on the Exchange for Energy Credits. Which you basically only earn in exploration sectors via DOFF asignments.
A "realistic" price might be something in the 5-10 % range of the Dilithium price. But even that is ultimately too high, because Dilithium grinding still takes a lot of time and even with this, a fleet crafter has basically nothing left for himself.
Unfortunately this just goes to show the Devs are either completely out of touch with the playerbase, or no longer have control of their own game(due to PW). Either way its a very bad sign.
I very...*VERY* rarely post on here. This might even be my 4th or 5th post ever.
According to your post history, this is your 3rd post! So I suppose it really means something you bother to reply. Unfortunately, this also means you are now no longer part of the silent majority.
I must disagree with the majority of people here.
Look at the full game experience as we always knew it:
Day 0: you create a toon
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral, with all purple gear and having purple\blue gear while leveling up because a fleet mate crafted them for you
Day 8: you start complaining that there is no end-game content
Day 9: you start pvping
Day 10: you finally understand game mechanincs and start complaining that pvp is unbalanced
Day XX: you quit the game
Ok here is the new game experience (for new players, not for us of course)
Day 0: you create a toon
Ok here the experience splits in two different paths, lets call them A and B
A = you have money and you want to spend it
B = you don't have money or you don't want to spend it
In A
Day 1: go to c-store and buy some .5 ships, effectively helping this game to last, paying the developers, the servers, the bandwidth, and so on..
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral
Day XX: you still have end game content, because you have to collect 30 (common borg salvage) x 4 (sets) = 120 STFs to be done.
Day YY: you start pvping
Day YYY: you don't complain anymore that pvp is unbalanced, because there are 1000 new consoles\doff_powers\combos that makes impossible for anyone to test every build. Balancing through chaos. I like it.
Day ZZZ: maybe you are still playing to get that MK XII set that can give you a little more dps in your arenas or in STFs.
In B
Same as A but you are VA with all purple gear and great ships after much more time, helping this game not in a financial way but contributing to mantain high the number of logged in players (we all remember empty sector blocks on holodeck some months ago, right?)
So, i definitely agree with all these changes and personally I would make dilithium prices even higher, for both crafted and non-crafted items..
Your speculation has a fatal mathematical logic error. Please rework your equation.
I guess I will add my voice to this and also say No to this implementation.
I'm sure people would consider me a Cryptic supporter, but this change brings a negative aspect to the game.
I don't think there would be so many negative complaints about this change if the change only required additional EC instead of Dil.
I'm sure Cryptic is viewing this thread, and am hopeful they are writing up a response to explain this change or report that they will change it.
Comments
[listens]
what a cryptic response, i don't understand [hears nothing]
Speak up people with the yellow names, answer us...
If they refuse to listen to their players, if they continue the practice of ignoring us and continuing as if we don't exist, then they deserve to have their dirty laundry aired for all to see.
If the cost is my Forum privileges, so be it.
I will, of course, wait for them to respond/fail to respond before resorting to such measures.
You might save this one too;
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=237604
Being a Temporal guy I took the liberty of cataloging some... discrepancies in the timeline of F2P (EG broken promises).
Backed up with linked Dev Posts and everything.
Well, it is almost 10P.M. in California, where the Devs live.
so? they've had ALL DAY to make a post to us about this, and they haven't and now they're gonna wake up to....oh i dunno, at the rate this thread is going, twice as many pages?
BUT...in this case I will make an exception.
When I read the patch notes....the very first thought I had was..."Well...There goes crafting"
Like most of the complaints at this time...the very idea of needing dilithium to craft things is...well..frakking insane.
Grinding dilithium is a tedius task as it is. Still debating what is worse...Emblems or Dilithium grinding.....
I see no point in crafting ever again, unless this changes back to the way it was. The way crafting is done didn't need to be changed...we just needed more unique items FROM crafting to make it worth doing. Sets like the Aegis would be nice...But don't force everyone to do it. Don't force your players into doing something they don't want to do...it will only make them not customers anymore.
In all fairness, the devs who tend to stay up late and post on the forums (Heretic, Gozer, and Zero) do not appear to be that heavily involved with this particular issue.
If there is no dev response after 1400 Cryptic time on the 21st, then I'll be a little concerned. (Give them time to digest the overwhelmingly negative reaction and decide on how they want to proceed.)
we were all fooled.
I cannot say anything bad about Steve.
I'm sorry.
I can however say that whoever convinced Steve that this would be a good idea is a filthy Rasputin.
Poor Steve. . . .
such a good man.
such a handsome man
loves his mama
such a hard worker.
so devoted
such good intentions.
coaches PeeWee Soccer
so passionate.
loves puppies.
gives to charity.
votes even.
this whole dilithium debacle makes me sad to my bones.
Get the word out, flood them with the feedback.
If there is a dev response before 2200 Cryptic time on the 23rd I'll be surprised.
If its more than just a canned "we hear you (no not really)" response I'll be shocked and will eat my commbadge.
I do! I do!
it came with the Collector's Edition.
Its pointy too; http://cdn1.iofferphoto.com/img/item/468/351/06/g_0a78_1.JPG
We guys from Temporal Command wear some sharp apparel if I do say so myself.
No. Really. Its very sharp. I've had to eat one before because I lost a bet with a Lethean and a Xindi over who out of the three of us had the best aim with a.... you know? now is not the time for this story.
Being that I think at a higher level than most people I knew this was coming and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Heck it outta be apparently clear when a company drops 50 mil on a game like this they were not doing it as a charity and they want their money back plus some profits. SInce this game has had such a bad rep for being broken, and whatever else you can think of it was really a huge huge gamble. I'm pretty sure the PW guys were like ok we'll let you handle things to start off with and now they are seeing whoa whoa no wonder you were failing you left this little piece of TRIBBLE here out of the c-store someone will buy it. PW does nothing but cash stores and follows the free to get in 5 dollars to get out policy. Putting emphasis on that 50 million dropped that 50 million has a louder voice than the community many times over so I doubt anything anyone says in the community will stop this vampire from trying to bleed us dry every time they make something new. Also we have not yet seen the influx of pay to win personal shields, body armors, and weapons space and ground that will eventually be sold that are better than anything we will be able to get in the game (This is the way all of PW's cash stores for everyone of their games are done.
And four more with the J.J. Abrams Star Trek movie CE.
This also negatively impacts the social aspect of the game, as having some characters with dedication to the crafting system was very useful for fleets small and large.
Of all the proposed changes to the game, this is the one I feel most strongly opposed to and the one I see most limiting my ability to change roles and generally have fun with the game. If anything, I see it encouraging me to spend less time tinkering in the game.
I like this idea--it would make for a decent compromise. High value craftables would require a different set of schematics, which would be sold by a Memory Alpha vendor in exchange for Dilithium. A player could then buy these and give them to a crafter who could then use them to craft the item. This would allow player A to craft an item for player B while drawing upon player B's Dilithium store instead of player A's., or could even allow player C to subsidize the crafting if player B is lacking in Dilithium, yet it prevents direct trades of Dilithium (which is something that the folks at Cryptic are trying very hard to avoid).
Looks like i can do like my Daddy always said and Want in one hand, )(*& in the other one.
what do you end up with?
a handful of (*&^)
filter on for decency.
The Fans | TV, Movies, Convetions | Where Fans no Longer Cross this Line| PW|Cryptic|
There it is... Welcome to the future of Star Trek.
Anyone thought about this implication yet?
Before the crafting changes we could hold out hope that high level or best gear might be acquired via means other than paying or grinding Dilithium.
What do these new changes mean?
The only way for a new instance of a piece of gear to enter the game is;
*For it to be created as a mission reward
*For it to pop in as a drop
*For Dilithium to be spent on it.
Since the first two happen so rarely (at least in terms of truly useful gear) that essentially means that they have made the ENTIRE in-game economy dependent on a time-gated grind-based currency that can, conveniently, be acquired for money via C-Points.
I actually tried to come up with a good positive to put out, but failed.
I do not like this change at all. Please change it back.
Many greetings.
And God help us all.
Look at the full game experience as we always knew it:
Day 0: you create a toon
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral, with all purple gear and having purple\blue gear while leveling up because a fleet mate crafted them for you
Day 8: you start complaining that there is no end-game content
Day 9: you start pvping
Day 10: you finally understand game mechanincs and start complaining that pvp is unbalanced
Day XX: you quit the game
Ok here is the new game experience (for new players, not for us of course)
Day 0: you create a toon
Ok here the experience splits in two different paths, lets call them A and B
A = you have money and you want to spend it
B = you don't have money or you don't want to spend it
In A
Day 1: go to c-store and buy some .5 ships, effectively helping this game to last, paying the developers, the servers, the bandwidth, and so on..
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral
Day XX: you still have end game content, because you have to collect 30 (common borg salvage) x 4 (sets) = 120 STFs to be done.
Day YY: you start pvping
Day YYY: you don't complain anymore that pvp is unbalanced, because there are 1000 new consoles\doff_powers\combos that makes impossible for anyone to test every build. Balancing through chaos. I like it.
Day ZZZ: maybe you are still playing to get that MK XII set that can give you a little more dps in your arenas or in STFs.
In B
Same as A but you are VA with all purple gear and great ships after much more time, helping this game not in a financial way but contributing to mantain high the number of logged in players (we all remember empty sector blocks on holodeck some months ago, right?)
So, i definitely agree with all these changes and personally I would make dilithium prices even higher, for both crafted and non-crafted items..
This hasn't changed crafting. It's killed crafting - and now, unless you plan to make crafted items Bind on Pickup (Oh god, don't....) you can slap yourself silly in a gee-willagers comedy routine as you watch Exchange prices for those items explode in to the millions, and not one of your precious 'casual gamers' will be able to afford anything in the end game.
Heck, even the existing players can't afford it.
A counter for inflation you say?
Nice job breaking it, Cryptic.
Indeed, this combination makes crafting extremely hard and not really an effective way to get your gear. And basically impossible to use for "Fleet Crafters".
You need to grind those anomalies. Which basically requires you to spend all your time in Exploration Sectors, meaning you only have one Daily you can complete while getting it. But even if you do more, t here is still the refinement limit.
You need to have the luck to find the rare anomalies for the very rare gear.
And then you need to buy anything missing on the Exchange for Energy Credits. Which you basically only earn in exploration sectors via DOFF asignments.
A "realistic" price might be something in the 5-10 % range of the Dilithium price. But even that is ultimately too high, because Dilithium grinding still takes a lot of time and even with this, a fleet crafter has basically nothing left for himself.
Now I am really scared. :eek:
According to your post history, this is your 3rd post! So I suppose it really means something you bother to reply. Unfortunately, this also means you are now no longer part of the silent majority.
Mustrum "No, I am not a stalker" Ridcully
Your speculation has a fatal mathematical logic error. Please rework your equation.
I'm sure people would consider me a Cryptic supporter, but this change brings a negative aspect to the game.
I don't think there would be so many negative complaints about this change if the change only required additional EC instead of Dil.
I'm sure Cryptic is viewing this thread, and am hopeful they are writing up a response to explain this change or report that they will change it.