I officially hate this idea to add Dilithium to the crafting system. it is Totally unacceptable, and the first change and idea I TOTALLY HATE> The idea to actually start warning people away from STO just crossed my mind.
Turn the crafting system Dilithium requirement off. PERIOD. I HATE THIS IDEA.
For many reasons. first is Since I only have a few characters who are Crafters, it forces me to level my crafting skills on ALL my NEW CHARACTERS. because I can't trade dilithium to my other characters from them and to save my sanity I only have 3 / 4 crafters on holodeck.
This is a terrible idea, I hate it, stop this particular change NOW. for the first time, I actually HATE the idea that the DEvs have put on the Tribble.
Add Energy credits to the Crafting cost would be ONE thing. But this. The cost of Dilithium as is, even if it was 10% the cost addition in Dilithium. the DEVS have said
The Dilithium currency is something that we think many starship captains will never need in quantity. If you enjoy playing the episode story line, getting your crew decked out with moderate gear, and so on, you may not need a single unit of Dilithium. The only exception might be the expense of Captain and Rear Admiral ship upgrades for Silver players, which may require a few hours of Dilithium mission play.
You just contradicted yourselves. Now we will need large amounts of Dilithium for all our characters because in order to craft ANYTHING of great quality we have to turn ALL our characters into Crafters. Because we can not trade Dilithium between ourselves.
the DEVS have JUST made a MAJOR BLUNDER on this game's direction. it forces us to BUY C_store points to BUY Dilithium, or forces us to GRIND massive amounts of Dilithium to gear up a character. and since the DEVS have said, (The Dilithium currency is something that we think many starship captains will never need in quantity), you have just majorly kicked us in the rear ends. If you want to keep the currency incoming to pay for STO.
I have a LIFE time subscription. and will get 400 c-points per month. but I can tell you this, it will not be enough. You have taken the first step to what I Feel will BURY this game. I Enjoy the Holodeck, as is, But PLEASE STOP this change to CRAFTING needing Dilithium. I find it unacceptable.
If you want to encourage F2P Silver accounts to GO GOLD, then LOCK the crafting system out to then at say give them a MAX crafting skill that only allows them to craft up to MK VIII Blue gear, or even totally lock the crafting system out to silver accounts. But the addition of Dilithium is unacceptable to the crafting system, it basically makes it mandatory to gather high levels of Dilithium.
Well this pretty much seals it in my mind. There is no spinning or excusing it anymore, the evidence is there for us see.
The goal of the F2P change, whether mandates internally or from the new ownership, is to monetize every single facet of the game via the dilithium mechanic. You simply cannot progress without buying extra dilithium anymore. Even if you could grind out the needed ore, you are not able to convert enough to satisfy everything that requires it now.
You've gutted the game, from top to bottom. Its either grind for weeks, or open the wallet.
No more casual gaming sessions with tangible rewards, no more "I can get there eventually"
STO is now either a Second Job or a new Monthly Bill to be paid.
I'm not mad anymore, I'm saddened. You guys did pretty well on Champions - you did the overhaul of the game with a scalpel, and stitched in the F2P system without destroying what you had created.
With STO, it was done with a chainsaw and a meat mallet, and most of what remains is a meaty pulp of expensive dilithium requirements and C-Store price-tags.
You have managed to excise the enjoyment and the excitement out of virtually everything by making it a treadmill. The worst part is that it overshadowed some truly great additions, like the Duty Officer systems.
I really think you have lost the trust of you player-base now. Its time for crisis management. Sweeping rollbacks of many of the changes is required.
1: Go tell Perfect World it isn't going to work
2: Announce postponement of F2P for 6 months
3: Ship content to holodeck soon for your PAYING customers
4: Use those 6 months to rework and present the F2P framework so that its not "Asian-grind" Lite and really fulfill your promise of not drastically changing the game
It makes no sense. Lots of MMOs have made SMALL CHANGES to go F2P and have met with good success. You have tried something radicial, something that deeply punishes existing players and totally changes the progression of your game. You fixed everything we didn't ask for, and nothing we DID ask for.
I know its far too late now, that it is what it is.
But I can dream.
Balls in your court now, Cryptic.
(IF it wasn't clear, adding dilithium to crafting is.. ridiculous.)
As someone who tries their best to put out memorable, elegant responses and posts (most of the time), let me say, this is impressive. Spot-on, to the point, and completely true.
1: Go tell Perfect World it isn't going to work
2: Announce postponement of F2P for 6 months
3: Ship content to holodeck soon for your PAYING customers
4: Use those 6 months to rework and present the F2P framework so that its not "Asian-grind" Lite and really fulfill your promise of not drastically changing the game
Its sad.
Sad that a player on a forum can devise a better game-plan for a company's future than the people paid an annual salary to do the same job.
Not necessarily. I bought my lifetime sub and one for my wife this past February. I have nowhere near used up my "value." If things keep going the route of adding grind to slow down leveling instead of adding immersive content, I may never see the value for my money.
It doesn't matter to Cryptic. they already have your money, you can't un-lifetime. They don't care if monthly subscribers leave, they believe they're going to get enough F2Pers with real poor decision-making skills to come in and buy their way through the game. Cryptic believes this is going to make them more money than a hybrid sub/F2P model, that's why they keep urinating on our leg and telling us it's raining.
"Oh no, you won't lose anything" (grabs VA ship, moves others to c-store only), "Hey, here's 400cp a month for being loyal subscribers" (raises c-store prices by 30+%), "We still value you" (continues to put price tags on EVERYTHING in game, now including crafting).
To be fair, I think people might actually be more livid about this overall than they were about ship tokens. At any rate, the /ragequit is a whole lot more one-sided, since there doesn't appear to be anyone trying to justify or defend this one. Ship tokens got fixed. Eventually. Maybe this will too.
Partially fixed, and the public relations damage was done already.
Seriously, how out of touch with a playerbase do you have to be to experiment with such sweeping terrible changes?
Or maybe thats the point.
They're testing our boiling point to determine where they can find the exact break-even point between nickle-and-diming and the 'acceptable losses' of enraged players.
To be fair, I think people might actually be more livid about this overall than they were about ship tokens. At any rate, the /ragequit is a whole lot more one-sided, since there doesn't appear to be anyone trying to justify or defend this one. Ship tokens got fixed. Eventually. Maybe this will too.
No, they didn't, the ship token for VA/LG ships is still gone.
The introduction of Dilithium as a cost on these schematics reduces the ability to mass produce high-end gear, which is being done intentionally to increase the difficulty of acquiring such gear.
Which player focus groups led you to the conclusion that these changes would increase the enjoyment of crafting?
It's already mind-numbing to gather resources to level crafting and then gather more to craft what you need, let alone mass producing anything. I can't imagine a single argument for this type of change (except from masochists who can't enjoy anything without a painful grind), unless there is an unspoken component to these changes (buy C-Store points to trade for Dilithium if you want to craft).
I play games for fun. This is a change for the worse (less fun). I'm not sure how anyone could see it otherwise.
Which player focus groups led you to the conclusion that these changes would increase the enjoyment of crafting?
If they made their decisions based on honestly trying to do right by player focus groups (if such a thing existed) then we wouldn't be in this thread up in arms.
We'd be quietly sipping drinks in our respective ready-rooms comfortable in the knowledge that the F2P change would be quick, painless, efficient, fair, and beneficial.
Whats most telling to me in all this?
The canned-ham responses from the Devs on these issues.
All we get are path to F2P blog posts that don't truly address the massive, extreme, obvious, and dangerous negative tidal waves these changes are creating.
No being, no matter who or what they are, could fail to notice the level of negativity.
What this means is that they have already accepted that its going to happen and decided that our anger, maybe even cancellations are acceptable losses.
Whats a little fun without a little chaos...is something Q would say.
I personally have not gotten much into crafting but I was hoping to get into it in a short while. Now it feels impossible.
Cryptic you said you were not going to take anything from the game..But now your taking our time. The game with all these F2P updated regarding Dilithium makes it take longer to be in game to get something simple.
I understand wanting rare gear to feel rare....why not just make some of the other parts rare or add extra steps to the crafting tree to get the gear you want.
I don't plan to grind dilithium my entire time in game simply to do crafting. I hoped to become a fleet crafter but that seems impossible now.
If you absolutely need dilithium as a part of crafting then it should not be a part of subscription crafting.
Almost seems the reasons to be a subscriber or a lifetimer are simply to "Avoid" the F2P additions rather then to simply be better apart from less need for dilithium.
I think its self evident that people dislike dilithium and mostly dislike it when you must deal with it while being subscribed at the least.
Subscribers and Lifetimers should not need to spend any extra time in game with this new F2P updates at any point. Adding to the time it takes to get something in game specially when the methods are not worth it and or not fun to do ruins the experience.
Personally my brain explodes if I must do the same thing over and over again which is why I tend to play games in bursts. The only people who really can just sit and do the same thing over and over are young children...however the entire fanbase of star trek which is who you are marketing too, are at least in there 20s.
So please dial back on the dilithium. I have high hopes for this game, though most hopes are for things to come after F2P such as foundry updates and new missions. I was so happy that free ship tokens returned though people had to complain a bunch. I sure yall will eventually get this fixed to were its mildly acceptable at the last.
To be fair, I think people might actually be more livid about this overall than they were about ship tokens. At any rate, the /ragequit is a whole lot more one-sided, since there doesn't appear to be anyone trying to justify or defend this one. Ship tokens got fixed. Eventually. Maybe this will too.
There's nothing to fix, other than finding a way to make crafting better without involving dilithium in any way, shape, or form at all. Turbine managed to convert to f2p and keep customers (including me) happily crafting in LOTRO. Do they sell the needed recipes and crafting packs in their store? Yes, but you can also still go out and find them or buy them with in-game gold in the auction house, too. It's very workable. I have used the turbine store a couple times for the convenience when I was short by just a few items to reach the next crafting tier level.
This insane dilithium charge to craft will drive me away, however. I'm already soured on the ship issue. With TOR and GW2 coming out, and LOTRO still doing well, there are plenty of other gaming options. And you know what Cryptic? I'm not supporting my son (who subs and isn't a lifer like I am) playing a game that gives no value for the money spent. It'll be a good customer service business lesson for him.
So please dial back on the dilithium. I have high hopes for this game, though most hopes are for things to come after F2P such as foundry updates and new missions. I was so happy that free ship tokens returned though people had to complain a bunch. I sure yall will eventually get this fixed to were its mildly acceptable at the last.
But there is no "dial back" with this change. A dollar amount OF ANY KIND should NOT be attached to crafting period. I was with the group on the ships. When Cryptic "dialed back" I actually expressed my gratitude, and said if they were willing to meet us part way, I was willing to buy VA level ships. In all honesty that's an easy consession for me since I'm a lifetime subscriber and big fanboy of this game. I've purchased almost everything they've put in the store. I've wanted - BADLY - to support Cryptic, to let them know that, even with the many mistakes they made, they had a good thing here and I appreciated it.
Now, one after another, these horrible (PWI like) changes are added to show me just how much they appreciated my support. You want to hear a stupid confession? Even on my Navy disability income, even with my wife unemployed, even with my auto insurance cut back to liability only, I was so happy they showed some remorse with the ship thing, that I dropped $50.00 I really didn't have to spare just so I could add a couple ships to my account to show my support for Cryptic. Boy do I feel like a fool now!
I think it's very likely that the very few who say they don't mind either;
A) Have more money than brains, so they don't particularly care if they're fleeced at every turn.
Have more money than brains, and feel a perverted sort of elitist pride in being able to be fleeced at every turn.
C) Are attempting to get a rise by posting blatantly unpopular views and then seeing the reactions.
D) Are Perfect World / Cryptic Employees on their personal accounts who are trying to turn the conversation without looking like they're trying to turn the conversation.
I understand you're upset, a lot of people are. But lets try and keep things on a more civil course?
Suggestions for alternatives (like using EC instead), or simply voicing your "no, I won't accept this change" are useful posts.
Posts like the one linked above are not. They merely serve to inflame an already inflamed topic.
Keep telling them what you think, but keep it civilized. Please.
And can we PLEASE get a sdangelo or other dev response to this? Perhaps in the morning? Soon? You guys HAVE to address this reaction.
There should be no dilithium requirement for subs to craft anything. I can understand if you want to require Silver players to have dilithum to craft the good items, but for subs, this is a no no. :mad:
Once agian you are fundamentally changing something in the game for Subs and you said you wouldn't. First it was no ship tokens, now this. C'MON PEOPLE! :eek:
Do you know every change you have made in the game has been good, if you differentiated your plans for silver and gold. Change things for the silver, leave them the same for gold!
I mean, I don't really know jack squat about marketing, I admit this whole heartedly. But it just seems too obvious and logical to make these changes for silver players, and leave things for subs the same. Not only do you make a reason for people to Subscribe, your current Subscribers AND not to mention those people who have put there faith in you and bought a Lifetime Membership, happy.
No ship tokens, great for silver, no no for Subs.
Dilituim requirement to craft good items, good for silver, no no for Subs.
You changed the ship tokens for us, Please see that this IS something you should change as well. Not even discount on required Dilithum for Subs, NO dilithium should be required to craft ANYTHING for a Subscriber/Carrer Officer.
We are not required to use emblems to craft gear on holodeck, so why dilithium?
f it will be permanent there MUST be a way to directly trade dilithium player -to-player. This cannot be the c-points/dilithium system.
The RDill to CPoint conversion also likely won't let you choose who you buy it from, only what price you are willing to pay, just like the Exchange. Of course there are work-arounds by pricing it for a very specific amount but that's too much hassle when we shouldn't have any item in crafting that is not tradeable.
I was with the group on the ships. When Cryptic "dialed back" I actually expressed my gratitude, and said if they were willing to meet us part way, I was willing to buy VA level ships.
Unfortunately this is exactly what they want. They start out painful and make you think they are giving you a break while still getting your money that they weren't going to get prior to the change. Making the "meet us part way" statement is not helping your argument since what they are really trying to do is see just how much they can squeeze us for and start off really bad so the nickel-and-diming doesn't hurt. You need to go for a "This far and no further" rather than agreeing to a less painful extra payment.
On it's face, I can't think of a more horrible move to make in crafting changes. I will look into it on Tribble to be sure. So far it seems that Tribble is all about sucking the fun out of STO. It smells like a big load of NGE!
Well this pretty much seals it in my mind. There is no spinning or excusing it anymore, the evidence is there for us see.
The goal of the F2P change, whether mandates internally or from the new ownership, is to monetize every single facet of the game via the dilithium mechanic. You simply cannot progress without buying extra dilithium anymore. Even if you could grind out the needed ore, you are not able to convert enough to satisfy everything that requires it now.
You've gutted the game, from top to bottom. Its either grind for weeks, or open the wallet.
No more casual gaming sessions with tangible rewards, no more "I can get there eventually"
STO is now either a Second Job or a new Monthly Bill to be paid.
I'm not mad anymore, I'm saddened. You guys did pretty well on Champions - you did the overhaul of the game with a scalpel, and stitched in the F2P system without destroying what you had created.
With STO, it was done with a chainsaw and a meat mallet, and most of what remains is a meaty pulp of expensive dilithium requirements and C-Store price-tags.
You have managed to excise the enjoyment and the excitement out of virtually everything by making it a treadmill. The worst part is that it overshadowed some truly great additions, like the Duty Officer systems.
I really think you have lost the trust of you player-base now. Its time for crisis management. Sweeping rollbacks of many of the changes is required.
1: Go tell Perfect World it isn't going to work
2: Announce postponement of F2P for 6 months
3: Ship content to holodeck soon for your PAYING customers
4: Use those 6 months to rework and present the F2P framework so that its not "Asian-grind" Lite and really fulfill your promise of not drastically changing the game
It makes no sense. Lots of MMOs have made SMALL CHANGES to go F2P and have met with good success. You have tried something radicial, something that deeply punishes existing players and totally changes the progression of your game. You fixed everything we didn't ask for, and nothing we DID ask for.
I know its far too late now, that it is what it is.
But I can dream.
Balls in your court now, Cryptic.
(IF it wasn't clear, adding dilithium to crafting is.. ridiculous.)
BRAVO!
Been trying to point this out since Day 1 of F2P being released on Tribble. The agenda behind DL and the economy revamp is finally being understood and rejected by the player base.
No longer can people say you're jumping to conclusions or doom-saying or looking at only half the facts. All the evidence was there in plain sight from the very beginning if you had your eyes open.
I don't mind STO going F2P, but the way it's being implemented isn't good for subscribers at all. Now that people are finally starting to wake up, I hope PW and Cryptic wake up as well and decide to implement a F2P plan that respects the game their existing subscribers have supported and loved for nearly 2 years.
I must admit that up to now I was reasonably pleased with most F2P changes, which were
justifiable in my opinion. Even the lack of tokens and the dilithium dailies & events.
This is the first time that even I cannot find one good reason for this change. I had reasonable justifications
for all previous changes - the fact that I have none now just says it all.
I full heartedly join the protest here and completely object to this crafting change. It shows lack of
fundamental understanding of the social gameplay in STO, it cripples the fleets and removes a social/trade
aspect in a MMO that is anyway too solo as it is.
I think the scariest part about all of this is that they went ahead and posted this update AFTER there were already at least 23 pages of flame responses to dilitium-for-crafting (oh, and the complete nerfing of the T5 Excelsior, fyi) on the Tribble feedback section of the forum. Instead of a "whoa, sorry, our bad" we get an official double-down news update. Instead of subs and lifers not having to sacrifice anything in-game for F2P, we are being told that we will indeed have to be giving up massive amounts of time and features on a ship for which we've already paid. Charming. :mad:
Again.. another thing that's going to make this game less fun and a grind. Please remove the dilithium from crafting. Adding dilithium to crafting will eliminate any fleet crafters, such as myself. The fact that dilithium refining is gated and farming is required for anomalies...these make crafting a chore, a grind, and boring.
The conversion rate needs to be improved. Your "algorithm" need to be more favorable. The combination of prices and the conversion rate devalues current paying subscribers play time by 30%. That's unacceptable.
Hello cryptic..are you listening?
Nobody wants to play a grindy game.. um, I meant second job.
Wonder how much of the current player base cryptic's going to lose from.
From the looks this is what they'll never be getting from my money: an LTS/sub, c-store boff slots, c-store ship slots, c-store ships, c-store combat pets, c-store xp boost, c-store character slots, c-store inventory slots, c-store bank slots, c-store costumes sets.......
What a lot of players want.......new story advancing content/missions, remove dilithium from crafting(raise the crafting points required to be able to craft high end gear), increase dilithium daily refining rate, do not devalue current in game wealth(improve the conversion rates).
Um..why are merits being removed...what are we using to train boffs dilithium? If so thats ridiculous. :mad:
I think the spirited debate in this thread WILL have an effect on the devs,
one that could be the catalyst for what the majority who have posted,
against NOT linking dilithium to crafting.
I'm a lifer, I'm playing STO no matter what changes are made.
It would be nice to have the majority of your player base LOVING
your changes and updates rather than HATING what you're attempting
to turn the game into.
I think the dev's can be reasonable, maybe they will read every post
in this thread and come to their senses, TIME will tell. Right now, nothing
on tribble is set in stone, changes AND tweaks can happen.
Have some faith, or not. Your choice. I'll wait and see on this one.
I consider myself a member of the "silent majority," as in I'm normally ok with leaving things on the forums alone for the most part and just focus on the game itself, which I enjoy in its current form on live.
However, this I'm not so sure of. Some of the changes on Tribble could have been better, locked story mission progression, then there was the ship acquisition changes (since made a bit better, yays!), but this I think I'll speak out for as well in agreeing with all 20 pages thus far detailing a negative regard for dilithium being involved with crafting in such a way.
Like some of the others have mentioned for their own fleets, I'm a part of a few fleets with dedicated crafters, and forcing the crafters to grind dilithium just to craft something for someone else is especially awkward.
Surely another less grindy-grind resource that only a single person for can earn for themselves could be used? Something that isn't the time-gated dilithium? Don't we still have energy credits?
There should be no dilithium requirement for subs to craft anything. I can understand if you want to require Silver players to have dilithum to craft the good items, but for subs, this is a no no. :mad:
Once agian you are fundamentally changing something in the game for Subs and you said you wouldn't. First it was no ship tokens, now this. C'MON PEOPLE! :eek:
Do you know every change you have made in the game has been good, if you differentiated your plans for silver and gold. Change things for the silver, leave them the same for gold!
I mean, I don't really know jack squat about marketing, I admit this whole heartedly. But it just seems too obvious and logical to make these changes for silver players, and leave things for subs the same. Not only do you make a reason for people to Subscribe, your current Subscribers AND not to mention those people who have put there faith in you and bought a Lifetime Membership, happy.
No ship tokens, great for silver, no no for Subs.
Dilituim requirement to craft good items, good for silver, no no for Subs.
You changed the ship tokens for us, Please see that this IS something you should change as well. Not even discount on required Dilithum for Subs, NO dilithium should be required to craft ANYTHING for a Subscriber/Carrer Officer.
Thank you.
I kind of like this idea, myself, we *DO* need more differentiation between subbers and free-players in terms of what they can earn or are rewarded with.
I'm not exactly web-savvy.. Is there a way to save this thread somewhere PW/Cryptic can't nuke it out of existence in order to have the evidence backed up as well as to link to prospective players should they refuse to listen?
Some old fashioned "read this before you sign up for F2P, know who you're supporting" kind of thing?
I've kept quiet about most of the changes I've seen so far, accepting them as part of the growth of the game. But this is just preposterous to the point of insanity. However, many other posters have voiced my opinions with more eloquence than I could hope to use at this hour, so I'll just agree with TGN and the rest.
I'm not exactly web-savvy.. Is there a way to save this thread somewhere PW/Cryptic can't nuke it out of existence in order to have the evidence backed up as well as to link to prospective players should they refuse to listen? Some old fashioned "read this before you sign up for F2P, know who you're supporting" kind of thing?
I expect that by archiving and republishing an entire thread from the forums you would almost certainly violate the terms of use.
Comments
Turn the crafting system Dilithium requirement off. PERIOD. I HATE THIS IDEA.
For many reasons. first is Since I only have a few characters who are Crafters, it forces me to level my crafting skills on ALL my NEW CHARACTERS. because I can't trade dilithium to my other characters from them and to save my sanity I only have 3 / 4 crafters on holodeck.
This is a terrible idea, I hate it, stop this particular change NOW. for the first time, I actually HATE the idea that the DEvs have put on the Tribble.
Add Energy credits to the Crafting cost would be ONE thing. But this. The cost of Dilithium as is, even if it was 10% the cost addition in Dilithium. the DEVS have said
The Below is Copied from the F2P Blog 11
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2657
The Dilithium currency is something that we think many starship captains will never need in quantity. If you enjoy playing the episode story line, getting your crew decked out with moderate gear, and so on, you may not need a single unit of Dilithium. The only exception might be the expense of Captain and Rear Admiral ship upgrades for Silver players, which may require a few hours of Dilithium mission play.
You just contradicted yourselves. Now we will need large amounts of Dilithium for all our characters because in order to craft ANYTHING of great quality we have to turn ALL our characters into Crafters. Because we can not trade Dilithium between ourselves.
the DEVS have JUST made a MAJOR BLUNDER on this game's direction. it forces us to BUY C_store points to BUY Dilithium, or forces us to GRIND massive amounts of Dilithium to gear up a character. and since the DEVS have said, (The Dilithium currency is something that we think many starship captains will never need in quantity), you have just majorly kicked us in the rear ends. If you want to keep the currency incoming to pay for STO.
I have a LIFE time subscription. and will get 400 c-points per month. but I can tell you this, it will not be enough. You have taken the first step to what I Feel will BURY this game. I Enjoy the Holodeck, as is, But PLEASE STOP this change to CRAFTING needing Dilithium. I find it unacceptable.
If you want to encourage F2P Silver accounts to GO GOLD, then LOCK the crafting system out to then at say give them a MAX crafting skill that only allows them to craft up to MK VIII Blue gear, or even totally lock the crafting system out to silver accounts. But the addition of Dilithium is unacceptable to the crafting system, it basically makes it mandatory to gather high levels of Dilithium.
Very well said.
Sure all of my rants are open source
Its sad.
Sad that a player on a forum can devise a better game-plan for a company's future than the people paid an annual salary to do the same job.
It doesn't matter to Cryptic. they already have your money, you can't un-lifetime. They don't care if monthly subscribers leave, they believe they're going to get enough F2Pers with real poor decision-making skills to come in and buy their way through the game. Cryptic believes this is going to make them more money than a hybrid sub/F2P model, that's why they keep urinating on our leg and telling us it's raining.
"Oh no, you won't lose anything" (grabs VA ship, moves others to c-store only), "Hey, here's 400cp a month for being loyal subscribers" (raises c-store prices by 30+%), "We still value you" (continues to put price tags on EVERYTHING in game, now including crafting).
Partially fixed, and the public relations damage was done already.
Seriously, how out of touch with a playerbase do you have to be to experiment with such sweeping terrible changes?
Or maybe thats the point.
They're testing our boiling point to determine where they can find the exact break-even point between nickle-and-diming and the 'acceptable losses' of enraged players.
No, they didn't, the ship token for VA/LG ships is still gone.
It's already mind-numbing to gather resources to level crafting and then gather more to craft what you need, let alone mass producing anything. I can't imagine a single argument for this type of change (except from masochists who can't enjoy anything without a painful grind), unless there is an unspoken component to these changes (buy C-Store points to trade for Dilithium if you want to craft).
I play games for fun. This is a change for the worse (less fun). I'm not sure how anyone could see it otherwise.
If they made their decisions based on honestly trying to do right by player focus groups (if such a thing existed) then we wouldn't be in this thread up in arms.
We'd be quietly sipping drinks in our respective ready-rooms comfortable in the knowledge that the F2P change would be quick, painless, efficient, fair, and beneficial.
Whats most telling to me in all this?
The canned-ham responses from the Devs on these issues.
All we get are path to F2P blog posts that don't truly address the massive, extreme, obvious, and dangerous negative tidal waves these changes are creating.
No being, no matter who or what they are, could fail to notice the level of negativity.
What this means is that they have already accepted that its going to happen and decided that our anger, maybe even cancellations are acceptable losses.
I personally have not gotten much into crafting but I was hoping to get into it in a short while. Now it feels impossible.
Cryptic you said you were not going to take anything from the game..But now your taking our time. The game with all these F2P updated regarding Dilithium makes it take longer to be in game to get something simple.
I understand wanting rare gear to feel rare....why not just make some of the other parts rare or add extra steps to the crafting tree to get the gear you want.
I don't plan to grind dilithium my entire time in game simply to do crafting. I hoped to become a fleet crafter but that seems impossible now.
If you absolutely need dilithium as a part of crafting then it should not be a part of subscription crafting.
Almost seems the reasons to be a subscriber or a lifetimer are simply to "Avoid" the F2P additions rather then to simply be better apart from less need for dilithium.
I think its self evident that people dislike dilithium and mostly dislike it when you must deal with it while being subscribed at the least.
Subscribers and Lifetimers should not need to spend any extra time in game with this new F2P updates at any point. Adding to the time it takes to get something in game specially when the methods are not worth it and or not fun to do ruins the experience.
Personally my brain explodes if I must do the same thing over and over again which is why I tend to play games in bursts. The only people who really can just sit and do the same thing over and over are young children...however the entire fanbase of star trek which is who you are marketing too, are at least in there 20s.
So please dial back on the dilithium. I have high hopes for this game, though most hopes are for things to come after F2P such as foundry updates and new missions. I was so happy that free ship tokens returned though people had to complain a bunch. I sure yall will eventually get this fixed to were its mildly acceptable at the last.
There's nothing to fix, other than finding a way to make crafting better without involving dilithium in any way, shape, or form at all. Turbine managed to convert to f2p and keep customers (including me) happily crafting in LOTRO. Do they sell the needed recipes and crafting packs in their store? Yes, but you can also still go out and find them or buy them with in-game gold in the auction house, too. It's very workable. I have used the turbine store a couple times for the convenience when I was short by just a few items to reach the next crafting tier level.
This insane dilithium charge to craft will drive me away, however. I'm already soured on the ship issue. With TOR and GW2 coming out, and LOTRO still doing well, there are plenty of other gaming options. And you know what Cryptic? I'm not supporting my son (who subs and isn't a lifer like I am) playing a game that gives no value for the money spent. It'll be a good customer service business lesson for him.
But there is no "dial back" with this change. A dollar amount OF ANY KIND should NOT be attached to crafting period. I was with the group on the ships. When Cryptic "dialed back" I actually expressed my gratitude, and said if they were willing to meet us part way, I was willing to buy VA level ships. In all honesty that's an easy consession for me since I'm a lifetime subscriber and big fanboy of this game. I've purchased almost everything they've put in the store. I've wanted - BADLY - to support Cryptic, to let them know that, even with the many mistakes they made, they had a good thing here and I appreciated it.
Now, one after another, these horrible (PWI like) changes are added to show me just how much they appreciated my support. You want to hear a stupid confession? Even on my Navy disability income, even with my wife unemployed, even with my auto insurance cut back to liability only, I was so happy they showed some remorse with the ship thing, that I dropped $50.00 I really didn't have to spare just so I could add a couple ships to my account to show my support for Cryptic. Boy do I feel like a fool now!
I understand you're upset, a lot of people are. But lets try and keep things on a more civil course?
Suggestions for alternatives (like using EC instead), or simply voicing your "no, I won't accept this change" are useful posts.
Posts like the one linked above are not. They merely serve to inflame an already inflamed topic.
Keep telling them what you think, but keep it civilized. Please.
And can we PLEASE get a sdangelo or other dev response to this? Perhaps in the morning? Soon? You guys HAVE to address this reaction.
Once agian you are fundamentally changing something in the game for Subs and you said you wouldn't. First it was no ship tokens, now this. C'MON PEOPLE! :eek:
Do you know every change you have made in the game has been good, if you differentiated your plans for silver and gold. Change things for the silver, leave them the same for gold!
I mean, I don't really know jack squat about marketing, I admit this whole heartedly. But it just seems too obvious and logical to make these changes for silver players, and leave things for subs the same. Not only do you make a reason for people to Subscribe, your current Subscribers AND not to mention those people who have put there faith in you and bought a Lifetime Membership, happy.
No ship tokens, great for silver, no no for Subs.
Dilituim requirement to craft good items, good for silver, no no for Subs.
You changed the ship tokens for us, Please see that this IS something you should change as well. Not even discount on required Dilithum for Subs, NO dilithium should be required to craft ANYTHING for a Subscriber/Carrer Officer.
We are not required to use emblems to craft gear on holodeck, so why dilithium?
Thank you.
P.S. Glad I already got my VA's :cool:
The RDill to CPoint conversion also likely won't let you choose who you buy it from, only what price you are willing to pay, just like the Exchange. Of course there are work-arounds by pricing it for a very specific amount but that's too much hassle when we shouldn't have any item in crafting that is not tradeable.
Unfortunately this is exactly what they want. They start out painful and make you think they are giving you a break while still getting your money that they weren't going to get prior to the change. Making the "meet us part way" statement is not helping your argument since what they are really trying to do is see just how much they can squeeze us for and start off really bad so the nickel-and-diming doesn't hurt. You need to go for a "This far and no further" rather than agreeing to a less painful extra payment.
But they don't really want you to pay $15 a month, they want you to pay hundreds...
BRAVO!
Been trying to point this out since Day 1 of F2P being released on Tribble. The agenda behind DL and the economy revamp is finally being understood and rejected by the player base.
No longer can people say you're jumping to conclusions or doom-saying or looking at only half the facts. All the evidence was there in plain sight from the very beginning if you had your eyes open.
I don't mind STO going F2P, but the way it's being implemented isn't good for subscribers at all. Now that people are finally starting to wake up, I hope PW and Cryptic wake up as well and decide to implement a F2P plan that respects the game their existing subscribers have supported and loved for nearly 2 years.
justifiable in my opinion. Even the lack of tokens and the dilithium dailies & events.
This is the first time that even I cannot find one good reason for this change. I had reasonable justifications
for all previous changes - the fact that I have none now just says it all.
I full heartedly join the protest here and completely object to this crafting change. It shows lack of
fundamental understanding of the social gameplay in STO, it cripples the fleets and removes a social/trade
aspect in a MMO that is anyway too solo as it is.
BAD DEVS! BAD BAD DEVS! :mad:
The conversion rate needs to be improved. Your "algorithm" need to be more favorable. The combination of prices and the conversion rate devalues current paying subscribers play time by 30%. That's unacceptable.
Hello cryptic..are you listening?
Nobody wants to play a grindy game.. um, I meant second job.
Wonder how much of the current player base cryptic's going to lose from.
From the looks this is what they'll never be getting from my money: an LTS/sub, c-store boff slots, c-store ship slots, c-store ships, c-store combat pets, c-store xp boost, c-store character slots, c-store inventory slots, c-store bank slots, c-store costumes sets.......
What a lot of players want.......new story advancing content/missions, remove dilithium from crafting(raise the crafting points required to be able to craft high end gear), increase dilithium daily refining rate, do not devalue current in game wealth(improve the conversion rates).
Um..why are merits being removed...what are we using to train boffs dilithium? If so thats ridiculous. :mad:
Please change ty
Agreed, I let my emotions get the better of me, I will edit the post.
one that could be the catalyst for what the majority who have posted,
against NOT linking dilithium to crafting.
I'm a lifer, I'm playing STO no matter what changes are made.
It would be nice to have the majority of your player base LOVING
your changes and updates rather than HATING what you're attempting
to turn the game into.
I think the dev's can be reasonable, maybe they will read every post
in this thread and come to their senses, TIME will tell. Right now, nothing
on tribble is set in stone, changes AND tweaks can happen.
Have some faith, or not. Your choice. I'll wait and see on this one.
However, this I'm not so sure of. Some of the changes on Tribble could have been better, locked story mission progression, then there was the ship acquisition changes (since made a bit better, yays!), but this I think I'll speak out for as well in agreeing with all 20 pages thus far detailing a negative regard for dilithium being involved with crafting in such a way.
Like some of the others have mentioned for their own fleets, I'm a part of a few fleets with dedicated crafters, and forcing the crafters to grind dilithium just to craft something for someone else is especially awkward.
Surely another less grindy-grind resource that only a single person for can earn for themselves could be used? Something that isn't the time-gated dilithium? Don't we still have energy credits?
I kind of like this idea, myself, we *DO* need more differentiation between subbers and free-players in terms of what they can earn or are rewarded with.
Some old fashioned "read this before you sign up for F2P, know who you're supporting" kind of thing?
You guys really have no freakin idea. Every post from Deangelo this game gets worse and worse and worse.
CRYPTIC NO THANK YOU! SHAME ON YOU REALLY!