A another F2P game came to mind about this rD crafting implementation.
This other F2P game uses a percentage chance of success in order to enhance your gears.Higher level gears require more expensive materials, along with a lowering percentage chance of success.
Basically, for a top tiered piece of gear, you have like a 15% chance to successfully upgrade your gear +1.
So you have an 85% chance to fail.
In that 85% failure chance there is a 35% chance that your gear will drop a +1 if it had a plus at all. AND a 25% chance your gear is simply be destroyed.
But don't worry about losing your gears!! Cause the game store sells 3 different things in the Game Store to help you!!
One object "A",increases your chance of success by 25%!!! (btw, it's a percentage of the Percentage, so actually you get 18.5% success chance...) The object is "used" regardless of success.
Object "B" eliminates the chance your gear gets degraded a +1. The object is "used" regardless of success.
Object "C" eliminates the destruction risk. The object is "used" regardless of success.
Objects "A, B, and C" each cost $5 for a 10 each.
So $15 dollars to have an 18.5% success, no degradation and no breaking.
So your left with the statistic of needing 6 of each object to upgrade you gear +1.
To get to +3 you need 18 of each object. So that's 1 more purchase of each object stack, or $30 total and 2 of each object left over.
At +4 to +6, your base chance to succeed is lowered to 12% (15% with object "A"!).
So you need 7 to increase to +4, or 21 to increase to +6. You had 2 left over so you needed 19 more, so 2 more stacks were purchased, for another $30 or $60 total and 1 of each object left over.
At +7 to +9 your base chance to succeed dropped to 8% (10% when you use object "A"!)... etc.
In all you spent $105 for the statistical probablility to get a max plussed high tiered gear...
Oh ya, that was just 1 piece of gear out of 6 you use... ($630...)
If you wanna PvP at high level in this other F2P game, then YOU HAVE to max out your gear, because someone else already has, and so has his team....
Oh ya, i forgot the expensive in-game materials you using at each attempt.
So you have to be rich in-game too...
This sounds exactly like Perfect World International. The base crafting was like any other game, the refining was the tough part.... oh and you forgot the sockets and varying quality of gems. My PvP gear was all +10 stacked full of perfect gems and cost about $3,000
With implementing this horrible antiplayer change to crafting and then not making even a brief response before now it's almost like PW/Cryptic walked up behind the player base and *spit* on the back of their necks.
Where is the response?
Answer your customers.
This is purely a guess on my part. But I believe that they expected a certain amount of negative feedback regarding the crafting change. I think were taken by surprise of the volume and the near unanimity of the rejection of the change.
This is purely a guess on my part. But I believe that they expected a certain amount of negative feedback regarding the crafting change. I think were taken by surprise of the volume and the near unanimity of the rejection of the change.
Anytime there is sufficient negative feedback the response is delayed.
This is because the feedback results in a meeting being called, after which they will respond.
What is discussed at this meeting is how they can change as little as possible (or nothing at all) and what they can say to try and sell us the changes they want to make that we don't like. Essentially the marketing boys are trying to figure out how to cook this particular pie so that someone, somewhere will actually be inclined to eat it.
I don't usually post negative comments. I've asked questions that may have seemed negative, but were just questions and ultimately didn't really matter, as I've continued to play and test both on Holodeck and Tribble-F2P.
I got my Tribble Test Character to VA and have numerous Doff Tier 1s, 1 Tier 2 and Diplomacy at tier 3. I did the grind to get my crafting to max and I completed an Aegis set for myself and I was working on a set for my best friend, whom I convinced to do the Tribble F2P test. I got the Shield sent to him Wed night, and then when I was checking out the changes to crafting, I saw that I couldn't really afford to finish the set for him. I sent him back the particles and samples he'd sent me and told him "sorry, I can't help you with crafting items any longer" I logged out and don't intend to log back into the test server unless something changes.
I've loved the Doff system, and most of the changes to the game have been either a great improvement or something I could at least live with. But forcing me to make every single character I have be a max level crafter just to get the things that I like (such as the stupid tron blue lines...) is just awful.
So yeah... I don't love this new crafting TRIBBLE.
Anytime there is sufficient negative feedback the response is delayed.
This is because the feedback results in a meeting being called, after which they will respond.
What is discussed at this meeting is how they can change as little as possible (or nothing at all) and what they can say to try and sell us the changes they want to make that we don't like. Essentially the marketing boys are trying to figure out how to cook this particular pie so that someone, somewhere will actually be inclined to eat it.
Don't worry. Some people are queuing up already with knife and fork in hand.
A bothersome thought is that PWI is calling the shots and Cryptic has no say in the matter. So here they are with the forums in flames over this and they have no choice but to walk into the fire. It doesn't change anything meaningful, but if that's the case I feel for the STO team.
Usually the rage and anger comes from a handfull of posters, but this time...
I have not seen, in a long time if ever, so many different posters attacking an idea on the forums.
...
Ok, so what is it all about. Why all this flame and anger?
In fact its very simple: I (as many of us) have a hard job for earning real money. Thus my time is limited. Its no fun at all being forced to do the same thing over and over again - I already have to do so in my job! But many of the new changes made in STO - and the changes in the crafting system are a good example for this - are leading exactly in this direction:
- You want a certain item from a mission on every level? Play it again Sam. (Why not letting the items level with you, as they did in the beginning)
- You need an item to equip every of your BOs with it? Play it again .
- You want to play a certain episode because you hit the level needed? No, now you have to play the whole thing from the scratch even if you already hit VA (by using the DOFF system)
- You want to buy items: Grind for dilithium! How? Doing the same daylies over and over again.
- you want to craft? Grind for anomalies, grind for particles, grind for dilithium. How? Doing the same thing over and over and over again!
Hey, I already have a hard job! My time is limited! So if you want me to play the game don't steal my spare time with this sort of thing!
After all: This is a game! At least it should be one. It should be FUN! I'm here because I want to have the illusion of being a starship captain, not the grind slave I already have to be in real life.
Just not to be misunderstood: I like STO! (YES! That's why I am so upset! I wouldn't be, if I wouldn't care.) I'm playing since headstart. But I want it to be a real FUN game not this Sisyphus-race.
IMHO it's simple: STO should be a fun game or it will not be at all. I don't want this to happen. So if your making changes PLEASE change it being a FUN GAME.
BTW. There are lots and lots of good suggestions in this forum, aren't there?!
The only person from cryptic I expect to chime in on this thread is Stormshade LOL all the others are radioing in that the LZ is too hot. I'm sure one day PW is going to chime in on top and tell em to shut down any of us that do not like how things are being done or planned (I'm also waiting for the never ending if you do not like it leave mentality too).
I'm sure one day PW is going to chime in on top and tell em to shut down any of us that do not like how things are being done or planned (I'm also waiting for the never ending if you do not like it leave mentality too).
If there is one thing PW knows how to do extremely well, it's to completely ignore the player base.
The only person from cryptic I expect to chime in on this thread is Stormshade LOL all the others are radioing in that the LZ is too hot. I'm sure one day PW is going to chime in on top and tell em to shut down any of us that do not like how things are being done or planned (I'm also waiting for the never ending if you do not like it leave mentality too).
And being a Chinese company, to NOT do this would seem.... illogical.
I understand the concept of money sink, but never before money sink is implemented in a game that as of now dont have a money issue, the money sink should be installed way after the F2P or better said CS2P has been out for a while and exists a problem of extra moola rolling around.
Don't worry. Some people are queuing up already with knife and fork in hand.
Yes, I've seen that thread. It's vastly amusing that these people believe that LtC ships and lousy gear are more than adequate.
Apparently they: (a) never play past normal (b) never play STFs (c) never PvP (d) never play Fleet Actions (e) never group.
I guess that none of those things are "actually needed to play the game" either.
I guess it all depends on your definition of what it means to "play the game". Some would assume it means the ability to do more than scrape by solo-grinding the easiest levels in PvE. I guess a scant few would disagree. I mean, technically all you need to be able to play the game is to log on and queue. You don't even have to be able to leave the first room of the tutorial. You don't NEED anymore, but most expect more.
How much you want to bet that Cryptic listens to said minority? That will probably be their sales pitch. Much like the big "dispute" over whether the Rhode Island was or wasn't balanced. Because some people didn't care that it was out of whack suddenly it being overpowered (right after Geko confirming it on STOked) was "debatable".
I imagine this will be the same. Cryptic will try and justify the change since the reception was "mixed". Sure, that mix was 99 parts disdain, 1 part relative ambivalence... but hey, that's still mixed, right? Technically accurate!
A another F2P game came to mind about this rD crafting implementation.
This other F2P game uses a percentage chance of success in order to enhance your gears.Higher level gears require more expensive materials, along with a lowering percentage chance of success.
Basically, for a top tiered piece of gear, you have like a 15% chance to successfully upgrade your gear +1.
So you have an 85% chance to fail.
In that 85% failure chance there is a 35% chance that your gear will drop a +1 if it had a plus at all. AND a 25% chance your gear is simply be destroyed.
But don't worry about losing your gears!! Cause the game store sells 3 different things in the Game Store to help you!!
One object "A",increases your chance of success by 25%!!! (btw, it's a percentage of the Percentage, so actually you get 18.5% success chance...) The object is "used" regardless of success.
Object "B" eliminates the chance your gear gets degraded a +1. The object is "used" regardless of success.
Object "C" eliminates the destruction risk. The object is "used" regardless of success.
Objects "A, B, and C" each cost $5 for a 10 each.
So $15 dollars to have an 18.5% success, no degradation and no breaking.
So your left with the statistic of needing 6 of each object to upgrade you gear +1.
To get to +3 you need 18 of each object. So that's 1 more purchase of each object stack, or $30 total and 2 of each object left over.
At +4 to +6, your base chance to succeed is lowered to 12% (15% with object "A"!).
So you need 7 to increase to +4, or 21 to increase to +6. You had 2 left over so you needed 19 more, so 2 more stacks were purchased, for another $30 or $60 total and 1 of each object left over.
At +7 to +9 your base chance to succeed dropped to 8% (10% when you use object "A"!)... etc.
In all you spent $105 for the statistical probablility to get a max plussed high tiered gear...
Oh ya, that was just 1 piece of gear out of 6 you use... ($630...)
If you wanna PvP at high level in this other F2P game, then YOU HAVE to max out your gear, because someone else already has, and so has his team....
Oh ya, i forgot the expensive in-game materials you using at each attempt.
So you have to be rich in-game too...
The only person from cryptic I expect to chime in on this thread is Stormshade LOL all the others are radioing in that the LZ is too hot. I'm sure one day PW is going to chime in on top and tell em to shut down any of us that do not like how things are being done or planned (I'm also waiting for the never ending if you do not like it leave mentality too).
You should have a read of the PWI forum guidelines and policies. They're a little... draconian. :eek:
Some people complained about Wishstone being quick with the modhammer. (I didn't see it myself, but....) If they had that reaction to her, they'll be screaming about PWI's forum policies... for about two posts before Banination.
I'm actually a little surprised that not even Stormy has said anything in this thread, or that this thread hasn't been moved to Tribble F2P Feedback. I'd have thought by now someone would have said something, unless of course this is the management's way of saying 'suck it up.'
The phaserings will continue until morale improves!
I must disagree with the majority of people here.
Look at the full game experience as we always knew it:
Day 0: you create a toon
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral, with all purple gear and having purple\blue gear while leveling up because a fleet mate crafted them for you
Day 8: you start complaining that there is no end-game content
Day 9: you start pvping
Day 10: you finally understand game mechanincs and start complaining that pvp is unbalanced
Day XX: you quit the game
Ok here is the new game experience (for new players, not for us of course)
Day 0: you create a toon
Ok here the experience splits in two different paths, lets call them A and B
A = you have money and you want to spend it
B = you don't have money or you don't want to spend it
In A
Day 1: go to c-store and buy some .5 ships, effectively helping this game to last, paying the developers, the servers, the bandwidth, and so on..
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral
Day XX: you still have end game content, because you have to collect 30 (common borg salvage) x 4 (sets) = 120 STFs to be done.
Day YY: you start pvping
Day YYY: you don't complain anymore that pvp is unbalanced, because there are 1000 new consoles\doff_powers\combos that makes impossible for anyone to test every build. Balancing through chaos. I like it.
Day ZZZ: maybe you are still playing to get that MK XII set that can give you a little more dps in your arenas or in STFs.
In B
Same as A but you are VA with all purple gear and great ships after much more time, helping this game not in a financial way but contributing to mantain high the number of logged in players (we all remember empty sector blocks on holodeck some months ago, right?)
So, i definitely agree with all these changes and personally I would make dilithium prices even higher, for both crafted and non-crafted items..
The bottom line is we pay this game to play, or have a lifetime. It has been a certian way for us, and was stated that it would not fundamentally change. Needing dilithium to craft an item if you are already paying (or paid) to play this game is exactly like you having to use emblems/marks right now on holodeck to craft good gear. This is fudamnetally changing the way the game is for us Subs. :mad:
If they wanna charge silver players dilithium to craft, I am all for that. I am for that even if I become a silver member for I am not a lifer, and from your status I see neither are you. I would accept this BECAUSE I would be playing the game for free. But you are not considering the people who are Lifers, and the people who will continue to Sub.
Conisder this, go back 3 or 4 months when none of this F2P stuff was even known, and it was just playing on holodeck as usual. If one day they busted out and said, "We are going to require you to have Marks/Emblems to craft Rare/Very Rare gear at Mem-Alpha." We would have all gone crazy, and justifiably so. This has nothing to do with F2P as far as unfairness is concerned, its just plain wrong to do to your Subs, so if this IS something they are implementing for F2P, then do it to the Free Players. Not us dedicated members, right?
But then again, I guess after their Multiphasic mini-game, where in an hour you can obtain the amount of samples that would take a month to get on holo-deck. So now EVERYONE is gonna have a million of every kind of sample, even rare samples. So with the current sample cost of items, and no dilithum restriction, there would be Purple gear everywhere right? So why the stupid Multiphasic game? For more content guess? You should remove that minigame, and make things in Mem-Alpha just cost more samples. That way items are more Rare, people who been with you since before F2P will be happy cause us crafters already got our data saved up.
If you need a Minigame to put in place of the Multiphasic minigame, make it a Dabo minigame where in that hour you get double the latinum. That should do nothing to the economy. So with this minigame instead of the Multiphasic one, and higher samples cost, Cryptic should get the effect you are looking for without killing your Subs. Unless I am wrong about the effect Cryptic wants.
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral, with all purple gear and having purple\blue gear while leveling up because a fleet mate crafted them for you
And now you agree with taking out another reason to be in a fleet. I think this sucks, that was the nice thing ABOUT joining a fleet, Fleet mates that help you level by getting you good gear .
And as for the rest of the quote above, as I have said before in another thread, I actually do agree with you about things needing to cost more, and be harder to obtain, and being more Rare. Leveling to VA does need to be harder. That has nothing to do with charging DILITHIUM to craft. If you wanna make it harder to obtain, then have it cost more samples. But costing dilithium, I will never agree to this, its just sad.
I must disagree with the majority of people here.
Look at the full game experience as we always knew it:
Day 0: you create a toon
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral, with all purple gear and having purple\blue gear while leveling up because a fleet mate crafted them for you
Day 8: you start complaining that there is no end-game content
Day 9: you start pvping
Day 10: you finally understand game mechanincs and start complaining that pvp is unbalanced
Day XX: you quit the game
Ok here is the new game experience (for new players, not for us of course)
Day 0: you create a toon
Ok here the experience splits in two different paths, lets call them A and B
A = you have money and you want to spend it
B = you don't have money or you don't want to spend it
In A
Day 1: go to c-store and buy some .5 ships, effectively helping this game to last, paying the developers, the servers, the bandwidth, and so on..
Day 7: you are Vice Admiral
Day XX: you still have end game content, because you have to collect 30 (common borg salvage) x 4 (sets) = 120 STFs to be done.
Day YY: you start pvping
Day YYY: you don't complain anymore that pvp is unbalanced, because there are 1000 new consoles\doff_powers\combos that makes impossible for anyone to test every build. Balancing through chaos. I like it.
Day ZZZ: maybe you are still playing to get that MK XII set that can give you a little more dps in your arenas or in STFs.
In B
Same as A but you are VA with all purple gear and great ships after much more time, helping this game not in a financial way but contributing to mantain high the number of logged in players (we all remember empty sector blocks on holodeck some months ago, right?)
So, i definitely agree with all these changes and personally I would make dilithium prices even higher, for both crafted and non-crafted items..
Please explain to me how this satisfies the need for "end-game content".
Doing the same STFs 120 additional times when we already have done them at least several tens of times?
Here's how I think things are likely to work from here on out:
Devs will announce "new and exciting" (drastic, money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) changes to X.
Players will vigorously debate changes to X.
Devs will implement (drastic, money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) changes to X.
Players will give feedback to the (drastic, money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) changes to X.
Devs will (maybe) roll back some of the (drastic, money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) changes to X, but only to make them less drastic (the money-grubbing, C-Store railroading part will stay).
The majority of the somnambulant playerbase will meekly accept the new (money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) X.
This is, of course, assuming they continue informing us of the planned changes to the game. If that is not the case, it will be as follows:
Devs will implement (drastic, money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) changes to X.
Players will give feedback to the (drastic, money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) changes to X.
Devs will (maybe) roll back some of the (drastic, money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) changes to X, but only to make them less drastic (the money-grubbing, C-Store railroading part will stay).
The majority of the somnambulant playerbase will meekly accept the new (money-grubbing, C-Store railroading) X.
By initially proposing a drastic money-grubbing change, they seem reasonable when they pull back to the smaller (still money-grubbing) change, thus pulling one over on the playerbase by getting what they wanted initially anyway (by having monetized something that was previously not monetized).
{sarcasm}
To add to the obviously fantastic idea of dilithium in crafting.....
1. It should now cost dilithium to use in-game chat. 1 refined dilithum per alphanumeric character.
2. It should now cost 500 refined dilithium to team up with another player.
3. It should now cost 100 refined dilithium x the mark level to pickup item drops from kills.
4. It should now cost 1000 refined dilithium to beam into any social area.
There. That should make the game sooo much better!!!1!!1!!one!!!!11!
{/sarcasm}
{sarcasm}
To add to the obviously fantastic idea of dilithium in crafting.....
1. It should now cost dilithium to use in-game chat. 1 refined dilithum per alphanumeric character.
2. It should now cost 500 refined dilithium to team up with another player.
3. It should now cost 100 refined dilithium x the mark level to pickup item drops from kills.
4. It should now cost 1000 refined dilithium to beam into any social area.
There. That should make the game sooo much better!!!1!!1!!one!!!!11!
{/sarcasm}
Ooh, I need to add that one to my blog post on this.
1. It should now cost dilithium to use in-game chat. 1 refined dilithum per alphanumeric character.
2. It should now cost 500 refined dilithium to team up with another player.
3. It should now cost 100 refined dilithium x the mark level to pickup item drops from kills.
4. It should now cost 1000 refined dilithium to beam into any social area.
I think we could probably just go with a flat 100 DL charge every time you press enter in a chat window. Otherwise this sounds good. Don't forget 500 DL to log out, and 100 DL to log back in again (so make sure your balance is high enough before you quit for the day!).
Please explain to me how this satisfies the need for "end-game content". Doing the same STFs 120 additional times when we already have done them at least several tens of times?
It seems to me that they are trying to make a brand new free to play game as if they don't have 2 years of people paying them to play under their belt. Most of this seems par for the course with an Asian f2p game but this is an American pay to play game at present. They need to make a hybrid game instead of just a free one. It seems like they aren't taking into account the people who paid and kept them employed for the last 2 years, and who want to keep paying them a subscription.
If all this were a new game with these mechanics, starting from scratch, we would either play it or not (in my case not). But it's not starting from scratch. We were told that for subscribers our game would not fundamentally change and that if anything prices would go down. This is the biggest problem with what they're trying to do; they're trying to take everything we've been given and already have and take it away, and take all our rewards and give us 10 cents on the dollar (so to speak) for them back. Then ask for money at every turn so we spend that 10 cents too. Then we go on the c-store, stipend in hand, and find out that the top end stuff all got prices raised by the amount of the stipend or even double the stipend. Once more, the opposite of what we were assured would be the case.
For example, I have enough badges, marks, and emblems to outfit a dozen ships on one character perhaps. Transfer that character to Tribble though and I might be able to outfit one ship with all the dilithium they give me for it. Then they want me to spend cash to make up everything else or spend weeks to get what I used to get in days. We quickly hit a wall on dilithium and have to grind for more just to get what we already have on holodeck. This is the problem with not designing with the subscriber model we already have in mind.
You want rare, elitist "I have this after weeks of grinding and you don't" gear? You can't make it the same gear we already have. I don't particularly like that style of loot and gear, which is why I don't play WoW, among other reasons. But you can't switch gear we already have to a model like that without making every subscriber feel cheated. So if you want that, and I'm not advocating for it, you must make new gear that is better than the gear we already have. You add to the game, you don't take away from the game.
If you do that though, you now have a new problem: everyone has to grind to get the new gear or they will be cannon fodder in pvp. New players will be cannon fodder anyway, but this would exacerbate the problem.
Try to remember the game you already have, not the free to play asian grindfest that asks players to cough up hundreds or thousands of dollars to be competitive. It's 2 years too late to make that game, and you have customers who already pay you.
They already have lifetime subscriber's money, they don't care if they leave. They already have 1year, 6 month, 3 month subscriber's money, they don't cae if they leave. They don't care if the monthly sub/unsubber stays or goes silver. Every change so far has been directly towards the PWI asian model. Cryptic has been fed a line from PWI - that they obviously believe - that they will be MORE successful monetizing everything and catering to the silver big wallet crowd. They may be right, it just also happens to kill the STO we all love to play.
Some of us here have been supporting an unfinished game loyally, putting up with excuse after excuse for content and fix delays and the thanks we get is a 400 stipend on raised c-store prices to buy our VA ship from and a worthless crafting system.
Instead of finding time to make crafting better; they found time to think of a way to use it to further insult us.
Really, Cryptic!?!?
Is your goal is to get rid of the existing player base and start fresh?
If that is your goal; I commend you on your adept ability to make it happen.
You knew this was a stupid and insulting idea before you presented it.
Keep it up; I'm just about ready to walk away...I've got plenty of other TRIBBLE I could be doing with my spare time.
Comments
This sounds exactly like Perfect World International. The base crafting was like any other game, the refining was the tough part.... oh and you forgot the sockets and varying quality of gems. My PvP gear was all +10 stacked full of perfect gems and cost about $3,000
This is purely a guess on my part. But I believe that they expected a certain amount of negative feedback regarding the crafting change. I think were taken by surprise of the volume and the near unanimity of the rejection of the change.
Anytime there is sufficient negative feedback the response is delayed.
This is because the feedback results in a meeting being called, after which they will respond.
What is discussed at this meeting is how they can change as little as possible (or nothing at all) and what they can say to try and sell us the changes they want to make that we don't like. Essentially the marketing boys are trying to figure out how to cook this particular pie so that someone, somewhere will actually be inclined to eat it.
I got my Tribble Test Character to VA and have numerous Doff Tier 1s, 1 Tier 2 and Diplomacy at tier 3. I did the grind to get my crafting to max and I completed an Aegis set for myself and I was working on a set for my best friend, whom I convinced to do the Tribble F2P test. I got the Shield sent to him Wed night, and then when I was checking out the changes to crafting, I saw that I couldn't really afford to finish the set for him. I sent him back the particles and samples he'd sent me and told him "sorry, I can't help you with crafting items any longer" I logged out and don't intend to log back into the test server unless something changes.
I've loved the Doff system, and most of the changes to the game have been either a great improvement or something I could at least live with. But forcing me to make every single character I have be a max level crafter just to get the things that I like (such as the stupid tron blue lines...) is just awful.
So yeah... I don't love this new crafting TRIBBLE.
Don't worry. Some people are queuing up already with knife and fork in hand.
A bothersome thought is that PWI is calling the shots and Cryptic has no say in the matter. So here they are with the forums in flames over this and they have no choice but to walk into the fire. It doesn't change anything meaningful, but if that's the case I feel for the STO team.
Z
Ok, so what is it all about. Why all this flame and anger?
In fact its very simple: I (as many of us) have a hard job for earning real money. Thus my time is limited. Its no fun at all being forced to do the same thing over and over again - I already have to do so in my job! But many of the new changes made in STO - and the changes in the crafting system are a good example for this - are leading exactly in this direction:
- You want a certain item from a mission on every level? Play it again Sam. (Why not letting the items level with you, as they did in the beginning)
- You need an item to equip every of your BOs with it? Play it again .
- You want to play a certain episode because you hit the level needed? No, now you have to play the whole thing from the scratch even if you already hit VA (by using the DOFF system)
- You want to buy items: Grind for dilithium! How? Doing the same daylies over and over again.
- you want to craft? Grind for anomalies, grind for particles, grind for dilithium. How? Doing the same thing over and over and over again!
Hey, I already have a hard job! My time is limited! So if you want me to play the game don't steal my spare time with this sort of thing!
After all: This is a game! At least it should be one. It should be FUN! I'm here because I want to have the illusion of being a starship captain, not the grind slave I already have to be in real life.
Just not to be misunderstood: I like STO! (YES! That's why I am so upset! I wouldn't be, if I wouldn't care.) I'm playing since headstart. But I want it to be a real FUN game not this Sisyphus-race.
IMHO it's simple: STO should be a fun game or it will not be at all. I don't want this to happen. So if your making changes PLEASE change it being a FUN GAME.
BTW. There are lots and lots of good suggestions in this forum, aren't there?!
What was the daily crafting volume before this change and what has it been daily since the change went into effect?
If there is one thing PW knows how to do extremely well, it's to completely ignore the player base.
And being a Chinese company, to NOT do this would seem.... illogical.
Yes, I've seen that thread. It's vastly amusing that these people believe that LtC ships and lousy gear are more than adequate.
Apparently they: (a) never play past normal (b) never play STFs (c) never PvP (d) never play Fleet Actions (e) never group.
I guess that none of those things are "actually needed to play the game" either.
I guess it all depends on your definition of what it means to "play the game". Some would assume it means the ability to do more than scrape by solo-grinding the easiest levels in PvE. I guess a scant few would disagree. I mean, technically all you need to be able to play the game is to log on and queue. You don't even have to be able to leave the first room of the tutorial. You don't NEED anymore, but most expect more.
How much you want to bet that Cryptic listens to said minority? That will probably be their sales pitch. Much like the big "dispute" over whether the Rhode Island was or wasn't balanced. Because some people didn't care that it was out of whack suddenly it being overpowered (right after Geko confirming it on STOked) was "debatable".
I imagine this will be the same. Cryptic will try and justify the change since the reception was "mixed". Sure, that mix was 99 parts disdain, 1 part relative ambivalence... but hey, that's still mixed, right? Technically accurate!
The only surprising part of that thread is the Nagus.
Most of the other posters are ones whom I've noticed never, ever, disagree with Cryptic about anything. I don't think much of them.
Its called hours of meetings, phone calls, plans on best course of damage control and a WHOLE LOT of facepalms.
Oh ... and figuring out just which red shirt to sacrifice first.
You should have a read of the PWI forum guidelines and policies. They're a little... draconian. :eek:
Some people complained about Wishstone being quick with the modhammer. (I didn't see it myself, but....) If they had that reaction to her, they'll be screaming about PWI's forum policies... for about two posts before Banination.
I'm actually a little surprised that not even Stormy has said anything in this thread, or that this thread hasn't been moved to Tribble F2P Feedback. I'd have thought by now someone would have said something, unless of course this is the management's way of saying 'suck it up.'
The phaserings will continue until morale improves!
The bottom line is we pay this game to play, or have a lifetime. It has been a certian way for us, and was stated that it would not fundamentally change. Needing dilithium to craft an item if you are already paying (or paid) to play this game is exactly like you having to use emblems/marks right now on holodeck to craft good gear. This is fudamnetally changing the way the game is for us Subs. :mad:
If they wanna charge silver players dilithium to craft, I am all for that. I am for that even if I become a silver member for I am not a lifer, and from your status I see neither are you. I would accept this BECAUSE I would be playing the game for free. But you are not considering the people who are Lifers, and the people who will continue to Sub.
Conisder this, go back 3 or 4 months when none of this F2P stuff was even known, and it was just playing on holodeck as usual. If one day they busted out and said, "We are going to require you to have Marks/Emblems to craft Rare/Very Rare gear at Mem-Alpha." We would have all gone crazy, and justifiably so. This has nothing to do with F2P as far as unfairness is concerned, its just plain wrong to do to your Subs, so if this IS something they are implementing for F2P, then do it to the Free Players. Not us dedicated members, right?
But then again, I guess after their Multiphasic mini-game, where in an hour you can obtain the amount of samples that would take a month to get on holo-deck. So now EVERYONE is gonna have a million of every kind of sample, even rare samples. So with the current sample cost of items, and no dilithum restriction, there would be Purple gear everywhere right? So why the stupid Multiphasic game? For more content guess? You should remove that minigame, and make things in Mem-Alpha just cost more samples. That way items are more Rare, people who been with you since before F2P will be happy cause us crafters already got our data saved up.
If you need a Minigame to put in place of the Multiphasic minigame, make it a Dabo minigame where in that hour you get double the latinum. That should do nothing to the economy. So with this minigame instead of the Multiphasic one, and higher samples cost, Cryptic should get the effect you are looking for without killing your Subs. Unless I am wrong about the effect Cryptic wants.
And now you agree with taking out another reason to be in a fleet. I think this sucks, that was the nice thing ABOUT joining a fleet, Fleet mates that help you level by getting you good gear .
And as for the rest of the quote above, as I have said before in another thread, I actually do agree with you about things needing to cost more, and be harder to obtain, and being more Rare. Leveling to VA does need to be harder. That has nothing to do with charging DILITHIUM to craft. If you wanna make it harder to obtain, then have it cost more samples. But costing dilithium, I will never agree to this, its just sad.
Please explain to me how this satisfies the need for "end-game content".
Doing the same STFs 120 additional times when we already have done them at least several tens of times?
This is, of course, assuming they continue informing us of the planned changes to the game. If that is not the case, it will be as follows:
By initially proposing a drastic money-grubbing change, they seem reasonable when they pull back to the smaller (still money-grubbing) change, thus pulling one over on the playerbase by getting what they wanted initially anyway (by having monetized something that was previously not monetized).
To add to the obviously fantastic idea of dilithium in crafting.....
1. It should now cost dilithium to use in-game chat. 1 refined dilithum per alphanumeric character.
2. It should now cost 500 refined dilithium to team up with another player.
3. It should now cost 100 refined dilithium x the mark level to pickup item drops from kills.
4. It should now cost 1000 refined dilithium to beam into any social area.
There. That should make the game sooo much better!!!1!!1!!one!!!!11!
{/sarcasm}
1) Mass reduction of the total cost of Dilithium
2) Switch the cost to use Energy Credits
3) More missions that give higher amounts of Dilithium
If all this were a new game with these mechanics, starting from scratch, we would either play it or not (in my case not). But it's not starting from scratch. We were told that for subscribers our game would not fundamentally change and that if anything prices would go down. This is the biggest problem with what they're trying to do; they're trying to take everything we've been given and already have and take it away, and take all our rewards and give us 10 cents on the dollar (so to speak) for them back. Then ask for money at every turn so we spend that 10 cents too. Then we go on the c-store, stipend in hand, and find out that the top end stuff all got prices raised by the amount of the stipend or even double the stipend. Once more, the opposite of what we were assured would be the case.
For example, I have enough badges, marks, and emblems to outfit a dozen ships on one character perhaps. Transfer that character to Tribble though and I might be able to outfit one ship with all the dilithium they give me for it. Then they want me to spend cash to make up everything else or spend weeks to get what I used to get in days. We quickly hit a wall on dilithium and have to grind for more just to get what we already have on holodeck. This is the problem with not designing with the subscriber model we already have in mind.
You want rare, elitist "I have this after weeks of grinding and you don't" gear? You can't make it the same gear we already have. I don't particularly like that style of loot and gear, which is why I don't play WoW, among other reasons. But you can't switch gear we already have to a model like that without making every subscriber feel cheated. So if you want that, and I'm not advocating for it, you must make new gear that is better than the gear we already have. You add to the game, you don't take away from the game.
If you do that though, you now have a new problem: everyone has to grind to get the new gear or they will be cannon fodder in pvp. New players will be cannon fodder anyway, but this would exacerbate the problem.
Try to remember the game you already have, not the free to play asian grindfest that asks players to cough up hundreds or thousands of dollars to be competitive. It's 2 years too late to make that game, and you have customers who already pay you.
They already have lifetime subscriber's money, they don't care if they leave. They already have 1year, 6 month, 3 month subscriber's money, they don't cae if they leave. They don't care if the monthly sub/unsubber stays or goes silver. Every change so far has been directly towards the PWI asian model. Cryptic has been fed a line from PWI - that they obviously believe - that they will be MORE successful monetizing everything and catering to the silver big wallet crowd. They may be right, it just also happens to kill the STO we all love to play.
Here's a great list of changes since the announcement of F2P2W:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=237483
Some of us here have been supporting an unfinished game loyally, putting up with excuse after excuse for content and fix delays and the thanks we get is a 400 stipend on raised c-store prices to buy our VA ship from and a worthless crafting system.
Instead of finding time to make crafting better; they found time to think of a way to use it to further insult us.
Really, Cryptic!?!?
Is your goal is to get rid of the existing player base and start fresh?
If that is your goal; I commend you on your adept ability to make it happen.
You knew this was a stupid and insulting idea before you presented it.
Keep it up; I'm just about ready to walk away...I've got plenty of other TRIBBLE I could be doing with my spare time.