The perhaps they should keep it all the same and instead double or tripple the amount of Dilithium ore earned and amount refineable.... I might be a bit happier.
Well. it makes sense to make crafting more expensive given the ease to do so previously compared to the cost of vendor items now. But adding a dilithium cost is not a good way of doing it. :rolleyes:
It´s character exclusive. No one can give me dilithium to craft stuff for them and I can´t even craft stuff for my other toons. So I have to level crafting on ANY toon now, seriously ?
As if collecting the data samples is not time consuming enough...
pfahaha i quess you never played other games with a serious crafting system... on other games it can take days (or sometimes months) to get all the different ingridiants together to craft one item.
Cryptics "crafting" system was nothing more then a exchange system, and it was casually as it gets -> you didn't had to spent any reall effort on it all.
Its quite clear why cryptic adds dil to crafting.
Crafting is way to easy now, even with the introduction of the rare anomalies its really takes next to no effeort to craft stuff, guess why you get the aegis set so cheap, its practically worth nothing. In other games to craft stuff like the aegis set, youd probably need to camp a specific mop or mine at a exact spot and hope you get luck to get the 1% drop chance. So you spent a lot time doing this. Since cryptic said dil is there "time currency" it makes perfect sense why they now use dil on crafting. It refelcts the price or better the time cryptic thinks is appropiate you have to spent to get this item.
Is it an elegant solution? No not really, but on the other hand you exactly know how much "time" you need to spent to get that item. On other games where you need a certain rare item to craft another item you either get lucky and it drops the first time (usualy doesnt happen) or you spent countless hours to farm the same mob/mine (whatever) to get the drop.
In the end both games require you to spent a certainammount of time in game to get this item, in one the time is disguised as rare drop, in the other its disguised as dilithium.
Some ideas about crafting that could make more sense:
- Introduce recipes for all crafting stuff. Other games do that and it is good thing for trade. Recipes, maybe some or all, could be sold by a vendor and cost dilithium. That way a crafter would need dilithium but wouldn´t run into the transfer problem with other people and/or toons.
- Just leave dilithium out of it and simply make items more expensive.
- Make schematics cost much more ec and make them non-craftable. That way at least someone could give me ec to craft something for him/her.
pfahaha i quess you never played other games with a serious crafting system... on other games it can take days (or sometimes months) to get all the different ingridiants together to craft one item.
Cryptics "crafting" system was nothing more then a exchange system, and it was casually as it gets -> you didn't had to spent any reall effort on it all.
Its quite clear why cryptic adds dil to crafting.
Crafting is way to easy now, even with the introduction of the rare anomalies its really takes next to no effeort to craft stuff, guess why you get the aegis set so cheap, its practically worth nothing. In other games to craft stuff like the aegis set, youd probably need to camp a specific mop or mine at a exact spot and hope you get luck to get the 1% drop chance. So you spent a lot time doing this. Since cryptic said dil is there "time currency" it makes perfect sense why they now use dil on crafting. It refelcts the price or better the time cryptic thinks is appropiate you have to spent to get this item.
Is it an elegant solution? No not really, but on the other hand you exactly know how much "time" you need to spent to get that item. On other games where you need a certain rare item to craft another item you either get lucky and it drops the first time (usualy doesnt happen) or you spent countless hours to farm the same mob/mine (whatever) to get the drop.
In the end both games require you to spent a certainammount of time in game to get this item, in one the time is disguised as rare drop, in the other its disguised as dilithium.
Only because 1 game does something doesn't mean every other game has to, too. Honestly i could live with something else being required to craft, even Dilithium if necessary. Three points that IMHO are important then:
- Dilithium has to be tradable
- Dilithium fleet storage
- increased refinement cap
Yes it would be grindy and harder to get then now, that's ok. But it would not kill the cooperation aspect. At the moment there is little ingame reason for a fleet so crafting and being able to share resources are two of the few. For this very reason it is not important if the crafting system is comparable to other games or not, it's functionality is important for STO.
I second this question, especially since it is a very bad business practice in taking away a part of something that has already been paid for. It's like buying a turkey dinner and enjoying it for 30 minutes when your waiter comes up to your table with a spoon and says "I'm sorry sir, even though you have already paid for this meal I'm afraid I'm going to have to take back the mashed potatoes and gravy" and then proceeds to scoop up the potatoes right there.
Agreed, and speaking of which, Greed is the type of word I'd use to describe this type of Business practice.
Also, Why should we have to pay a percentage of our hard earned Dilithium to Craft even numbered Crafted Items?! :mad:
When I first came to STO, I had just come from Lord of the Rings Online. On that game, there is a huge amount of Warmth from the player community on average, but It's totally the opposite when you attempt to Buy something from their Online Store.
What I Loved about Cryptic in the begining was that while the Player Community is often as Warm and talkative as space itself, they had a better system than Turbine in the area of "Microtransactions" (a cute way of saying that you're spending no more than $20 per item each time you hit this button.)
Where as Turbine Purchases were largely temporary in nature and usually only aided the Character you bought them with,
Cryptic's major purchases Such as Ships and Bundles, always effected you're entire Acount for Life.
Well Guess I was wrong about this. Now not only are they Inflating the Prices like a Dime store Balloon, but they are Forcing us to buy things that we have no reason to pay for. "Put you're Programing prowess into Useful things that we can actually gain long term benifits from like ships, Not Captain retrain tokens! :mad:
After seeing what's happening to the Game's Real money economy, I'm more inclined to leave than to stay, and this may hold true to other players.
If I had known what was going to happen, I'm not really sure if I would have even joined STO in the first place.
And now $350 Dolars later, I Definately have some regrets because of Joining, But the more I look at it, the more I begin to understand Why I'm Beeing lead down the path to Game Designing.
Someone needs to Make Games that combine the best aspects of the best games out there, into ones that both inspire and unite players around the world into one Giant Family.
In the mean time, I just have to remind you what Greed did to the World's Economy, That Housing market Bubble Burst, and boy did people get Soap in their eye's because of it.
Dilithium for crafting is BS. It is complete and utter show-stopping BS. It doesn't matter how much of a dilithium stipend you are planning to give to subscribers. Any way you look at it, you are forcing players to waste their time. I have done the Starfleet Academy dilithium farming event exactly twice, and I am bored out of my mind even thinking about having to do it again. Gathering data samples is neither easy nor quick, and crafter are neither lazy nor cheap. I was considering remaining a gold subscriber after F2P and maybe even buying a lifetime subscription, not to mention buying a bunch of C-store points to get all of the cool new stuff. If dilitium-for-crafting isn't dropped, I won't be doing any of that. I realize exactly how harsh I am sounding, but that is because I have absolutely loved every single other update you have made to the game. Making a change like this seems even worse when contrasted with those improvements. :mad:
This is even worse then I imagined. from 5,644 per Mk IX to 9,075 per Mk X and finally 15,834 Per Mk XI. What they've done is make crafting useless now. For a little more time and maybe another day of refining you can get an emblem weapon for 22,620. It's not even like you could trade those items for a dilithium cost. it had to be EC, which overall is going to be useless still. Way to kill and control the economy cryptic.
I for one am not someone who considers cryptic to be the soul-sucking, super-greedy, will TRIBBLE over it's customers company that some do, so i'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that they're going to rectify this (as they have many other things). I have 7 character across both factions, and i have one crafter for each faction. This dilithium thing is going to kill me unless:
Dilithium becomes tradeable between alts.
The refinement cap is raised (something like 20,000, i dunno).
You can earn more dilithium either in terms of amounts per mission, or more missions, simply.
I don't mind it being more difficult; I don't even mind them having a small charge of dilithium. Being a master crafter shouldn't be something you achieve easily. I do disagree with it being counter-productive, though, and it isn't as if i'm going to spend more time in STO if i have to level up each character to be a top class crafter.
I want to play STO. I want to enjoy my gaming experience. I want to give you guys my money rather than setlle for TOR when it comes out. Just make the game worth it (which, to be fair, imo you have for quite a while now).
Oh, and even with a Captain token and enough dilithium I still can't buy the Ki'Tang.
My initial reaction to the changes are as follows:
I love the KDF Academy, I love that there are places that look ready to be used in a PvP arena and a firing range, I love that it looks like an ancient Klingon Fortress that has seen continuous use for Thousands of years.
I do not like the new interact animation. The old one was just fine, there were no threads complaining about it to my knowledge, why do you keep changing what isn't broken? This isn't the first time you've done this to the interact animation. Please stop making changes for the sake of making changes.
I do not like the KDF Doff store. Oh, I like the concept, but the execution, making a whole slew of new currencies? Goes against the entire (stated) point of the economy revamp. Put them up for EC or Dilithium, and gate the store tabs by progress in the various branches of the DOff system.
I do not like the way you've decided to make people who've bought the T5 Excelsior buy the T3 version in order to keep what they've already had since it was added to the game. My true feelings cannot be expressed in polite company or within the rules of this forum, but suffice it to say, had I a voice, I would make your ears bleed on this one. Even greed has it's limits, seriously, stop this TRIBBLE.
Please remove any Dilithium involvement with Crafting. Not everything in the game, especially those things which already take an investment of time (anomaly-gathering), needs to be linked to your precious money-grab Dilithium exchange. (Hoping crafters will buy C-$tore points to trade for Dilithium to avoid the grind, are we? That's screwed up and you know it.)
One addition you've made is good (the KDF Academy), all of your other changes in this build are bad.
What is wrong with you people, you're ruining a great game by going P2W, who do we have to E-Mail, how much feedback do we have to give, how many subs do you have to lose to get the point?
If it's not in your hands, tell your bosses, either at Cryptic or Perfect World, let them know how many players you've lost in the last two months. Let them read the rants on he forums. Let them see how idiotic these changes are. Increased short term financial gaines do not justify killing the long-term prospects of this game.
EDIT: I know F2P is going to be more grindy, that's understandable, really, it is, for Silver Subscribers. Making Gold Subs suffer? That's like a final authorization for a self-destruct system. Unless it's undone, this game will destroy itself as people abandon it.
when will we be able to see all of our bridge officers on our bridge again, and not just clones...
Or even better, when will we see them in the right positions? First Officer in the chair next to captains chair for instance...
But i must say i like the changes to the doff system its getting better and better
kudos to you
I do not like the new interact animation. The old one was just fine, there were no threads complaining about it to my knowledge, why do you keep changing what isn't broken? This isn't the first time you've done this to the interact animation. Please stop making changes for the sake of making changes.
The old one was not fine. There were a number of threads complaining that it was very hard to find interact items, even in missions you had run before. I don't know what the new one is yet, but anything would be better than what it was. The one on Holodeck at the moment is "fine," so if they just reverted it to that version that would be fine too.
The old one was not fine. There were a number of threads complaining that it was very hard to find interact items, even in missions you had run before. I don't know what the new one is yet, but anything would be better than what it was. The one on Holodeck at the moment is "fine," so if they just reverted it to that version that would be fine too.
I honestly couldn't see a difference between the one on Tribble yesterday and the one on Holodeck. But the one on Tribble today is atrocious.
The old one was not fine. There were a number of threads complaining that it was very hard to find interact items, even in missions you had run before. I don't know what the new one is yet, but anything would be better than what it was. The one on Holodeck at the moment is "fine," so if they just reverted it to that version that would be fine too.
Agreed, the interact animation needed help.
And the crash-to-desktop fix in this buld seems like it is working. That is also a +1 in this builds favor.
Dilithium for crafting is incredibly dumb.
So for every step we take forward, we take one back....
T5 Excelsior Retrofit: Console grants Transwarp (but no longer to Sirius, Regulus, or Pi Canis)
What possible reason could you have for making this change? Sorry, but this was just a stupid waste of time for whoever had to do it. Why, exactly, would you remove three sectors from the transwarp catalog of this ability, which are no more or less useful to be able to go to than any other? Even Sirius was nice, despite that we have an innate ESD warp, because it warps to a location that might be closer to where I'm going, and avoids one zone change out of the SOL system.
Seriously, this was just dumb. Change it back please. There was no need to nerf the transwarp in order to compensate for the power bonus, since TW is not a combat power. If you wanted to add the power bonus to offset the fact that you lose a slot in order to gain the TW ability, fine, but why do you need to TRIBBLE with the ability that is the whole point of using the console in the first place?
Even better would be just get rid of this console and put the ship back the way it was. Since this is the one non-combat special ability, there is a logical basis for not attempting to console-ify this one. The ship wasn't broken in any sense before this, and every "fix" you make is just making it slightly worse in some way.
What possible reason could you have for making this change? Sorry, but this was just a stupid waste of time for whoever had to do it. Why, exactly, would you remove three sectors from the transwarp catalog of this ability, which are no more or less useful to be able to go to than any other? Even Sirius was nice, despite that we have an innate ESD warp, because it warps to location that might be closer to where I'm going, and avoids one zone change out of the SOL system.
Seriously, this was just dumb. Change it back please. There was no need to nerf the transwarp in order to compensate for the power bonus, since TW is not a combat power. If you wanted to add the power bonus to offset the fact that you lose a slot in order to gain the TW ability, fine, but why do you need to TRIBBLE with the ability that is the whole point of using the console in the first place?
Even better would be just get rid of this console and put the ship back the way it was. Since this is the one non-combat special ability, there is a logical basis for not attempting to console-ify this one. The ship wasn't broken in any sense before this, and every "fix" you make is just making it slightly worse in some way.
Well, as far as Sirius goees, isn't that something everyone gets? Pi Canis you get as a diplomacy leveling reward, too, right?
What possible reason could you have for making this change? Sorry, but this was just a stupid waste of time for whoever had to do it. Why, exactly, would you remove three sectors from the transwarp catalog of this ability, which are no more or less useful to be able to go to than any other? Even Sirius was nice, despite that we have an innate ESD warp, because it warps to location that might be closer to where I'm going, and avoids one zone change out of the SOL system.
Seriously, this was just dumb. Change it back please. There was no need to nerf the transwarp in order to compensate for the power bonus, since TW is not a combat power. If you wanted to add the power bonus to offset the fact that you lose a slot in order to gain the TW ability, fine, but why do you need to TRIBBLE with the ability that is the whole point of using the console in the first place?
Even better would be just get rid of this console and put the ship back the way it was. Since this is the one non-combat special ability, there is a logical basis for not attempting to console-ify this one. The ship wasn't broken in any sense before this, and every "fix" you make is just making it slightly worse in some way.
Oh the reason is simple. You want back what you already had? Spend another 800 CP for the T3 Excelsior and equip this console too.
Please make this an added TAC slot instead of sci slot. This would make so much more sense for this ship's unique design. The 3/3/3 console layout would play very well with the Ensign Universal slot and would make this ship much more interesting for people to like to go for balance and adaptability in their builds.
As it is, with four sci slots, the boat is basically just a fatter, slower Intrepid with a different BOFF layout, and that's not very interesting at all.
Well, as far as Sirius goees, isn't that something everyone gets? Pi Canis you get as a diplomacy leveling reward, too, right?
No, and no. You get a SOL system warp; Sirius warp takes you to a spot out in the sector. And nothing gives you a warp to PC other than the Excelsior ship ability.
Bottom line: it was a pointless, useless change. It was fine as it is. It should be changed back.
IMO, the T5 Excelsior should have had a resonance burst from the main deflector. An AOE blast when it hits a target. like one of those science powers, with kinetic damage or something. Leave the transwarping to the T3.
Another thing I've come across: The T4 Bird of Prey Refit is not coming with the Subspace Jump Console.
Tried to get it twice, no luck each time, so I've submitted a bug report on it, #21,510.
Comments
For sure, everywhere i look i see Cryptic trying to TRIBBLE us over in every way possible.
It´s character exclusive. No one can give me dilithium to craft stuff for them and I can´t even craft stuff for my other toons. So I have to level crafting on ANY toon now, seriously ?
How ???
- Events
- STFs
- Character transfer to tribble
pfahaha i quess you never played other games with a serious crafting system... on other games it can take days (or sometimes months) to get all the different ingridiants together to craft one item.
Cryptics "crafting" system was nothing more then a exchange system, and it was casually as it gets -> you didn't had to spent any reall effort on it all.
Its quite clear why cryptic adds dil to crafting.
Crafting is way to easy now, even with the introduction of the rare anomalies its really takes next to no effeort to craft stuff, guess why you get the aegis set so cheap, its practically worth nothing. In other games to craft stuff like the aegis set, youd probably need to camp a specific mop or mine at a exact spot and hope you get luck to get the 1% drop chance. So you spent a lot time doing this. Since cryptic said dil is there "time currency" it makes perfect sense why they now use dil on crafting. It refelcts the price or better the time cryptic thinks is appropiate you have to spent to get this item.
Is it an elegant solution? No not really, but on the other hand you exactly know how much "time" you need to spent to get that item. On other games where you need a certain rare item to craft another item you either get lucky and it drops the first time (usualy doesnt happen) or you spent countless hours to farm the same mob/mine (whatever) to get the drop.
In the end both games require you to spent a certainammount of time in game to get this item, in one the time is disguised as rare drop, in the other its disguised as dilithium.
- Introduce recipes for all crafting stuff. Other games do that and it is good thing for trade. Recipes, maybe some or all, could be sold by a vendor and cost dilithium. That way a crafter would need dilithium but wouldn´t run into the transfer problem with other people and/or toons.
- Just leave dilithium out of it and simply make items more expensive.
- Make schematics cost much more ec and make them non-craftable. That way at least someone could give me ec to craft something for him/her.
Only because 1 game does something doesn't mean every other game has to, too. Honestly i could live with something else being required to craft, even Dilithium if necessary. Three points that IMHO are important then:
- Dilithium has to be tradable
- Dilithium fleet storage
- increased refinement cap
Yes it would be grindy and harder to get then now, that's ok. But it would not kill the cooperation aspect. At the moment there is little ingame reason for a fleet so crafting and being able to share resources are two of the few. For this very reason it is not important if the crafting system is comparable to other games or not, it's functionality is important for STO.
Agreed, and speaking of which, Greed is the type of word I'd use to describe this type of Business practice.
Also, Why should we have to pay a percentage of our hard earned Dilithium to Craft even numbered Crafted Items?! :mad:
When I first came to STO, I had just come from Lord of the Rings Online. On that game, there is a huge amount of Warmth from the player community on average, but It's totally the opposite when you attempt to Buy something from their Online Store.
What I Loved about Cryptic in the begining was that while the Player Community is often as Warm and talkative as space itself, they had a better system than Turbine in the area of "Microtransactions" (a cute way of saying that you're spending no more than $20 per item each time you hit this button.)
Where as Turbine Purchases were largely temporary in nature and usually only aided the Character you bought them with,
Cryptic's major purchases Such as Ships and Bundles, always effected you're entire Acount for Life.
Well Guess I was wrong about this. Now not only are they Inflating the Prices like a Dime store Balloon, but they are Forcing us to buy things that we have no reason to pay for. "Put you're Programing prowess into Useful things that we can actually gain long term benifits from like ships, Not Captain retrain tokens! :mad:
After seeing what's happening to the Game's Real money economy, I'm more inclined to leave than to stay, and this may hold true to other players.
If I had known what was going to happen, I'm not really sure if I would have even joined STO in the first place.
And now $350 Dolars later, I Definately have some regrets because of Joining, But the more I look at it, the more I begin to understand Why I'm Beeing lead down the path to Game Designing.
Someone needs to Make Games that combine the best aspects of the best games out there, into ones that both inspire and unite players around the world into one Giant Family.
In the mean time, I just have to remind you what Greed did to the World's Economy, That Housing market Bubble Burst, and boy did people get Soap in their eye's because of it.
Dilithium becomes tradeable between alts.
The refinement cap is raised (something like 20,000, i dunno).
You can earn more dilithium either in terms of amounts per mission, or more missions, simply.
I don't mind it being more difficult; I don't even mind them having a small charge of dilithium. Being a master crafter shouldn't be something you achieve easily. I do disagree with it being counter-productive, though, and it isn't as if i'm going to spend more time in STO if i have to level up each character to be a top class crafter.
I want to play STO. I want to enjoy my gaming experience. I want to give you guys my money rather than setlle for TOR when it comes out. Just make the game worth it (which, to be fair, imo you have for quite a while now).
Oh, and even with a Captain token and enough dilithium I still can't buy the Ki'Tang.
I love the KDF Academy, I love that there are places that look ready to be used in a PvP arena and a firing range, I love that it looks like an ancient Klingon Fortress that has seen continuous use for Thousands of years.
I do not like the new interact animation. The old one was just fine, there were no threads complaining about it to my knowledge, why do you keep changing what isn't broken? This isn't the first time you've done this to the interact animation. Please stop making changes for the sake of making changes.
I do not like the KDF Doff store. Oh, I like the concept, but the execution, making a whole slew of new currencies? Goes against the entire (stated) point of the economy revamp. Put them up for EC or Dilithium, and gate the store tabs by progress in the various branches of the DOff system.
I do not like the way you've decided to make people who've bought the T5 Excelsior buy the T3 version in order to keep what they've already had since it was added to the game. My true feelings cannot be expressed in polite company or within the rules of this forum, but suffice it to say, had I a voice, I would make your ears bleed on this one. Even greed has it's limits, seriously, stop this TRIBBLE.
Please remove any Dilithium involvement with Crafting. Not everything in the game, especially those things which already take an investment of time (anomaly-gathering), needs to be linked to your precious money-grab Dilithium exchange. (Hoping crafters will buy C-$tore points to trade for Dilithium to avoid the grind, are we? That's screwed up and you know it.)
One addition you've made is good (the KDF Academy), all of your other changes in this build are bad.
What is wrong with you people, you're ruining a great game by going P2W, who do we have to E-Mail, how much feedback do we have to give, how many subs do you have to lose to get the point?
If it's not in your hands, tell your bosses, either at Cryptic or Perfect World, let them know how many players you've lost in the last two months. Let them read the rants on he forums. Let them see how idiotic these changes are. Increased short term financial gaines do not justify killing the long-term prospects of this game.
EDIT: I know F2P is going to be more grindy, that's understandable, really, it is, for Silver Subscribers. Making Gold Subs suffer? That's like a final authorization for a self-destruct system. Unless it's undone, this game will destroy itself as people abandon it.
Or even better, when will we see them in the right positions? First Officer in the chair next to captains chair for instance...
But i must say i like the changes to the doff system its getting better and better
kudos to you
I honestly couldn't see a difference between the one on Tribble yesterday and the one on Holodeck. But the one on Tribble today is atrocious.
Agreed, the interact animation needed help.
And the crash-to-desktop fix in this buld seems like it is working. That is also a +1 in this builds favor.
Dilithium for crafting is incredibly dumb.
So for every step we take forward, we take one back....
Seriously, this was just dumb. Change it back please. There was no need to nerf the transwarp in order to compensate for the power bonus, since TW is not a combat power. If you wanted to add the power bonus to offset the fact that you lose a slot in order to gain the TW ability, fine, but why do you need to TRIBBLE with the ability that is the whole point of using the console in the first place?
Even better would be just get rid of this console and put the ship back the way it was. Since this is the one non-combat special ability, there is a logical basis for not attempting to console-ify this one. The ship wasn't broken in any sense before this, and every "fix" you make is just making it slightly worse in some way.
I just bought the T5 Defiant and it has a cloaking console........
Just letting you know...
Well, as far as Sirius goees, isn't that something everyone gets? Pi Canis you get as a diplomacy leveling reward, too, right?
I've let them know three times in this thread already. Nobody reads.
Oh the reason is simple. You want back what you already had? Spend another 800 CP for the T3 Excelsior and equip this console too.
--
Just one note: Loving the new Klingon Academy btw. Guys did a great job with that; it even has vendors, which I love.
As it is, with four sci slots, the boat is basically just a fatter, slower Intrepid with a different BOFF layout, and that's not very interesting at all.
Bottom line: it was a pointless, useless change. It was fine as it is. It should be changed back.
Soryy for the caps, but thats how I feel, I guess i'll be hanging my crafting apron up now then
Tried to get it twice, no luck each time, so I've submitted a bug report on it, #21,510.