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Season 4 lack of klingons again

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The duty officer system will ship for the KDF simultaneous with the Fed; there remain more KDF assignments done than Fed assignments, and all non-unique duty officers for both sides are done, in the can, complete with portraits. The icons which vary depending on faction are, similarly, done and being implemented into the UI at the same time.

    One of my main goals for the assignment system was to give an additional mechanism to make advancing KDF players significantly less painful; my primary character is KDF, and trust me, I know exactly how rough it is. No, this is not the same as more content - these aren't missions in the traditional sense - but it is my specific hope that the assignment system will to some degree ease some of the advancement issues on the KDF side of the game.

    There are a lot of plans internally to work on rebalancing the discrepencies between the factions; none of us are under any illusion that this will be easy or fast, but we feel it is something that is important to do within the realities of business and development constraints.

    Redoing Qo'noS, allowing players to start the game as Klingons, and adding a Diplomacy system analog in the form of the Marauder system are all steps in this direction. There's no doubt about it, it's going to be a long road as there's a lot of ground to make up, and developmental realities make for some hard decisions along the way, but it is something we as a team are committed to.

    Thanks for the pep talk, Heretic. Anything positive for the red faction is a good thing. Just please make sure that what's promised in Season Four HAPPENS in Season Four. It doesn't have to be all in place right when it launches, but as long as it comes out before Season Five goes live I'd be happy.

    Looking forward to the duty officer system. I've been keeping tabs on it and it just keeps getting me more interested in trying it out.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Thanks for the pep talk, Heretic. Anything positive for the red faction is a good thing. Just please make sure that what's promised in Season Four HAPPENS in Season Four. It doesn't have to be all in place right when it launches, but as long as it comes out before Season Five goes live I'd be happy.

    Looking forward to the duty officer system. I've been keeping tabs on it and it just keeps getting me more interested in trying it out.

    Speaking of anything positive for the Klingon faction...I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see a feature series regarding Klinogns. The way they remastered the Doomsday mission proves to me they can go ahead and make it possible for feds to play as a Klingon and take care of a problem in short order. I hope that this mission could be used as good PR for people who would doubt the cool factor of playing a Klingon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I'm glad Heretic came on and let us know what he is personally doing to help us get more content. I feel a little better with the update that was shared. This might be the first time that a game update is slewed towards the Klingon side, judging by the comments on the Dutty Officer System.







    Now about those Feddies getting to fly a B'Rel.....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    What I love to see would be a feature epsiode or just one mission that was different when play for klingons then it would be federation.

    Not sure when or if we get to see but that would be nice.

    Lets face klingon and federation have different approachs
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The duty officer system will ship for the KDF simultaneous with the Fed; there remain more KDF assignments done than Fed assignments, and all non-unique duty officers for both sides are done, in the can, complete with portraits. The icons which vary depending on faction are, similarly, done and being implemented into the UI at the same time.

    One of my main goals for the assignment system was to give an additional mechanism to make advancing KDF players significantly less painful; my primary character is KDF, and trust me, I know exactly how rough it is. No, this is not the same as more content - these aren't missions in the traditional sense - but it is my specific hope that the assignment system will to some degree ease some of the advancement issues on the KDF side of the game.

    There are a lot of plans internally to work on rebalancing the discrepencies between the factions; none of us are under any illusion that this will be easy or fast, but we feel it is something that is important to do within the realities of business and development constraints.

    Redoing Qo'noS, allowing players to start the game as Klingons, and adding a Diplomacy system analog in the form of the Marauder system are all steps in this direction. There's no doubt about it, it's going to be a long road as there's a lot of ground to make up, and developmental realities make for some hard decisions along the way, but it is something we as a team are committed to.

    Thanks for taking the time to let us know what your doing about the issue.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Thanks for the pep talk, Heretic. Anything positive for the red faction is a good thing. Just please make sure that what's promised in Season Four HAPPENS in Season Four. It doesn't have to be all in place right when it launches, but as long as it comes out before Season Five goes live I'd be happy.

    Looking forward to the duty officer system. I've been keeping tabs on it and it just keeps getting me more interested in trying it out.

    The number one priority I have been given for this system is to make sure it gets done right.

    Once the system has been thoroughly vetted internally we will see the system out on Tribble, and then with all of your help we will be aggressively putting the system through its paces to tune the system, locate the weak points and eliminate any exploits.

    This won't be an overnight process, and I expect to be very, very busy during the duty officer system's sojourn on Tribble. In particular, some aspects of the system are sufficiently large scale that until they are used by the community at large on Tribble we won't know how accurate some of our estimates were, and we will be doing some very rapid, very aggressive adjustments to get the system tuned to the level of quality the community deserves.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    It doesn't have to be all in place right when it launches, but as long as it comes out before Season Five goes live I'd be happy.

    Yes it does need to be done when it launches, releasing things half-assed is what has gotten Cryptic in trouble; you only get one shot at releases so don't waste it by saying, "we'll update it later."

    I'll start logging in again to look at the duty-roster system (would look forward to it more if I hadn't already leveled 5 characters, but that's another matter), but I will NOT hang around if it is just another weak release.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Heretic wrote:
    The number one priority I have been given for this system is to make sure it gets done right.

    Once the system has been thoroughly vetted internally we will see the system out on Tribble, and then with all of your help we will be aggressively putting the system through its paces to tune the system, locate the weak points and eliminate any exploits.

    This won't be an overnight process, and I expect to be very, very busy during the duty officer system's sojourn on Tribble. In particular, some aspects of the system are sufficiently large scale that until they are used by the community at large on Tribble we won't know how accurate some of our estimates were, and we will be doing some very rapid, very aggressive adjustments to get the system tuned to the level of quality the community deserves.

    If my Doff comes back to my ship with a flyable Borg Tactical cube will that be an issue that needs to be tweaked or working as intended? :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Sivar wrote: »
    Yes it does need to be done when it launches, releasing things half-assed is what has gotten Cryptic in trouble; you only get one shot at releases so don't waste it by saying, "we'll update it later."

    I'll start logging in again to look at the duty-roster system (would look forward to it more if I hadn't already leveled 5 characters, but that's another matter), but I will NOT hang around if it is just another weak release.

    It boils down to this: You can either get the stuff now (or at season's launch in this case) in a half-assed and rushed manner or you can wait and have the season pushed back a month or two (or whatever) and get a polished system in place. If it means getting something awesome, I'm willing to wait. Just not for very long.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    It boils down to this: You can either get the stuff now (or at season's launch in this case) in a half-assed and rushed manner or you can wait and have the season pushed back a month or two (or whatever) and get a polished system in place. If it means getting something awesome, I'm willing to wait. Just not for very long.

    I agree if the ship date has to be push then it get pushed. I rather wait for good then get like we did at launch. I am sure there where reason why the game launch they way it did. But I still feel to this day it was rush out the door.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    RCO wrote:
    I agree if the ship date has to be push then it get pushed. I rather wait for good then get like we did at launch. I am sure there where reason why the game launch they way it did. But I still feel to this day it was rush out the door.

    It was rushed out the door. If I remember correctly Cryptic was told to move it or lose it. You figured CBS and the powers that be waited for how long for Perpetual to get the job done? They wanted an MMO out then and there, despite the quality. TBH, I think Cryptic is doing well under stress. At the end of the day, the only way an MMO player can affect change to the game they play is to stop financing it.


    Just be thankful this isn't SOE or the SWG Smuggler forums lol
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Sprint01 wrote:
    It was rushed out the door. If I remember correctly Cryptic was told to move it or lose it. You figured CBS and the powers that be waited for how long for Perpetual to get the job done? They wanted an MMO out then and there, despite the quality. TBH, I think Cryptic is doing well under stress. At the end of the day, the only way an MMO player can affect change to the game they play is to stop financing it.


    Just be thankful this isn't SOE or the SWG Smuggler forums lol

    Oh I agree. I followed this game from the day it was first announced. Back when Perpetual had it.

    I was every happy when Cryptic save the game. I use to play City of Heroes back in day and know what they could do.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    At this point, most of the KDF loyalists are PvP players. There is little to do endgame, on both sides, and I don't expect to see any endgame content for Season 4. The duty officer thing could take a while for us all to flesh out our rosters and such, but it's not what I consider "content".

    I am fine thinking it could be Season 5 before my LG characters get something new to do, but the tease of frequent Featured Series puts hope on that too.

    My concern is that what they are giving us in Season 4 won't attract new players to the KDF. It was clearly said that if the population doesn't go up after Season 4 we can pretty much forget any more content KDF side.

    This update HAS to give what is missing. It HAS to promote the growth of the KDF faction.

    Sadly, I can't see it doing that. I don't think it's fair to say, "this is all you get if more people don't join your faction." when you aren't giving us enough to actually pull people over.

    Why is it that we get new FED ships and uniforms once a month? Because those are things that players want. Unless there are a lot of new uniforms and ships coming to the game with Season 4...what makes anyone at Cryptic think people are going to "come over to KDF"?

    You can't throw us a handful of missions and think it's enough, when we are so far behind the FED already. It's not just playable content the KDF need. In fact, most people have learned to live with the lack of that. It's the options that are missing. Uniforms, ship costumes, playable races...etc.

    I think, in my opinion, those things would be easy and quick to add to the game, and honeslty I think they would actually go further to pull people over to the KDF than remastered missions.

    That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    staalker wrote: »
    That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    No, you're right. Least IMO. No one wants to play KDF because theres nothing to do over there. The Devs tell us 'But the Foundry supplies all these missions!"

    I hate to say this, but the majority of Foundry missions aren't as good as the ones the Devs have made. They're not as entertaining. Now granted, there are exceptions, and I've seen them on both sides of the fence. But the fact is theres a reason fan fiction rarely ever gets published. Theres a reason not everyone gets a job as a content designer for a game studio.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    staalker wrote: »
    Why is it that we get new FED ships and uniforms once a month? Because those are things that players want. Unless there are a lot of new uniforms and ships coming to the game with Season 4...what makes anyone at Cryptic think people are going to "come over to KDF"?

    You can't throw us a handful of missions and think it's enough, when we are so far behind the FED already. It's not just playable content the KDF need. In fact, most people have learned to live with the lack of that. It's the options that are missing. Uniforms, ship costumes, playable races...etc.

    I think, in my opinion, those things would be easy and quick to add to the game, and honeslty I think they would actually go further to pull people over to the KDF than remastered missions.

    I agree... this sounds like low hanging fruit that should be easy to do compared to adding new content and would go a long way in narrowing the gap between the Fed and KDF side.

    I would like to see them take all of the Fed story missions that are applicable and convert them to a Klingon view, tell them from the Klingon perspective. It might save some time as the maps and outline already exist. You just need to tweak the story so that it will make sense to play as a Klingon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    BobO369 wrote: »
    I agree... this sounds like low hanging fruit that should be easy to do compared to adding new content and would go a long way in narrowing the gap between the Fed and KDF side.

    I would like to see them take all of the Fed story missions that are applicable and convert them to a Klingon view, tell them from the Klingon perspective. It might save some time as the maps and outline already exist. You just need to tweak the story so that it will make sense to play as a Klingon.

    It on the engineer report as something there going to work on. However when all that was announce what my immersion was that would be part of season 4 launch. Then we find out it not and there working on federation re master episodes and then they decide start a klingon from start is not important either anymore and put that on back burner. Right before they announce that they say "After season 4 no more klingon stuff unless more people play it"

    That when I started this thread.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    BobO369 wrote: »
    I agree... this sounds like low hanging fruit that should be easy to do compared to adding new content and would go a long way in narrowing the gap between the Fed and KDF side.

    I would like to see them take all of the Fed story missions that are applicable and convert them to a Klingon view, tell them from the Klingon perspective. It might save some time as the maps and outline already exist. You just need to tweak the story so that it will make sense to play as a Klingon.

    The thing is that Dan announced that it will happen. I had hoped that we get the Klingon side when the remastered episodes for the Feds came out, but looking at the Eng Report, we won't even get that. We have to wait for this to happen sometime down the line. Our content just keeps getting pushed back and pushed back without any real explanation.

    And that is what ****es me off the most. Little-to-no communication towards the KDF players. WHY is it being pushed back? It feels like they just don't care at all and only throw us a frickin' bone every now and then to appease us.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    With reference to the upcoming C-Store Jupiter pack, which adds more customisation to an already bloated Fed menu:
    specter22 wrote:
    So are the KDF getting a skirt option like has been requested many times? or are the skirts annother fed only addition? also i still want to know if the KDF are getting any new badges or are those also just for fed side?
    mhighison wrote: »
    The skirts and badges I've mentioned here are indeed Fed only, because they are Fed Uniform parts. Getting a Klingon faction skirt is on my list of extras I want to squeeze in before for Season 4.

    Now, what was that quote from DStahl about judging on track-records...?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I pointed out in annother post after the one you qouted that i thought it was kinda weak of cryptic to add more skirts and badges to fed side before even thinking about adding a KDF skirt ( as the feds already have skirt options and many badge options while we have 1 badge and no skirts) and mhigison replied saying i was being harsh! I guess they dont like the hard truth being pointed out that despite all the assurances they give us about the KDF being important that were in reality an after thought, somthing that they can do a bit for if they have no fed stuff currently being worked on.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    With reference to the upcoming C-Store Jupiter pack, which adds more customisation to an already bloated Fed menu:





    Now, what was that quote from DStahl about judging on track-records...?

    In all fairness to mhighison he mad a second post explain why right after your post.

    mhighison wrote: »
    That's a little harsh man (Especially the stuff I edited out). If you actually compare the number of costume parts in the base game, KDF and FED have similar numbers of options. Remember that KDF gets all their species specific Uniforms (Orion Bikinis, bare chest Gorn, Nausicaan armor), and all sorts of other options Feds don't get. That being said, I know there is lots to do, and we ARE working on it. We love Klingons, as much as you might think we don't, and we do feel bad when we hear you are disappointed in something.

    New KDF skirt options would be nice, I agree (that's why I'm trying to get them in with the day 0 Season 4 patch!) but there are other KDF things that are a bit more important to the overall experience... and those are being worked on first.


    But that is a discussion for another time and place... lets get the thread back on track and post some new stuff to stare at!

    New Gorn NPCs!
    http://twitpic.com/52wspn

    Although these are NPCs, the guy on the left is basically what a player character could look like if they chose all those parts. Working on getting the costume tailor tech set up for them right now.



    It sounds to me he going to do it just a matter will it be with season 4 or after. It also sounds like if they get bump it be for klingon items. Personal I can live with that.

    Let face there no way cryptic can devote everything to Klingons. It not going to happen. Asking for that is doom for failure and disappointment.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    RCO wrote:
    In all fairness he mad a second post right after the one you quote.



    It sounds to me he going to do it just a matter will it be with season 4 or after. It also sounds like if they get bump it be for klingon items. Personal I can live with that.

    Let face there no way cryptic can devote everything to Klingons. It not going to happen. Asking for that is doom for failure and disappointment.

    To be fair, I didn't see that second post, or I would have similarly quoted it. I don't usually 'tattletale' Dev comments, but it struck me as nothing we hadn't seen, or been promised, before. Nevertheless, you are correct - work on KDF is never going to be top priority, but it irritated me that all the work on the Jupiter series outshone anything coming the KDF way. Again.

    Still... I'm sure the new Gorn skin appeases.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    To be fair, I didn't see that second post, or I would have similarly quoted it. I don't usually 'tattletale' Dev comments, but it struck me as nothing we hadn't seen, or been promised, before. Nevertheless, you are correct - work on KDF is never going to be top priority, but it irritated me that all the work on the Jupiter series outshone anything coming the KDF way. Again.

    Still... I'm sure the new Gorn skin appeases.

    Sorry did not mean to imply you left it out. and the fairness was not directed at your post but to dev. Your post was made between the two post. So it hard to quote something that not there when you write yours :D

    You posted at 06:09 PM

    the dev quote post was made at 06:36 PM
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    RCO wrote:
    Sorry did not mean to imply you left it out. and the fairness was not directed at your post but to dev. Your post was made between the two post. So it hard to quote something that not there when you write yours :D

    You posted at 06:09 PM

    the dev quote post was made at 06:36 PM

    All good, my friend. I didn't think you were implying anything anyway. However, it is gone 1am here, and so I may well be being unduly crotchety towards the Devs, so I will now retire to my quarters. :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    mhighison wrote: »
    If you actually compare the number of costume parts in the base game, KDF and FED have similar numbers of options. Remember that KDF gets all their species specific Uniforms (Orion Bikinis, bare chest Gorn, Nausicaan armor), and all sorts of other options Feds don't get.

    Yes, if you stack all options, KDF and Federation appear to have near similar numbers of options for non C-store uniforms. However, it's a little bit distorted. A Klingon cannot access Orion or gorn options, nor can Orion and so on. So, from the point of view of one character, the options are more than limited...

    What we could use are globally available costumes for all members of the KDF. Any warrior style uniform would be more than welcomed.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    red_shirt_ wrote: »
    ...What we could use are globally available costumes for all members of the KDF. Any warrior style uniform would be more than welcomed.
    Well said. Well said... :)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    red_shirt_ wrote: »
    Yes, if you stack all options, KDF and Federation appear to have near similar numbers of options for non C-store uniforms. However, it's a little bit distorted. A Klingon cannot access Orion or gorn options, nor can Orion and so on. So, from the point of view of one character, the options are more than limited...

    What we could use are globally available costumes for all members of the KDF. Any warrior style uniform would be more than welcomed.

    I agree. But I seem to recall they have to make some changes before that possible. ( Seem to remeber it was at the time the merc outfits came out) perhaps this is the other klingon stuff he was talking about when saying he was not sure if he can get to skirts.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    I dunno, there are probably issues with different body geos or what not. I am not necessarily begging for skirt options since it would only apply to Klingon, Orion and joined trills. But they sure have a large library of NPC warrior costumes to draw from that should save them on creation time. I just would love to see more epic™ uniform sets for Klingon players....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited May 2011
    Sure, we have similar numbers, but the idea that you can't put that Orion bikini on a non-orion, means you actually have tiny amounts of costume pieces for each race. I think that is where the issue comes from.

    Klingons give their ships to the entire KDF roster, regardless of race, but they won't let us wear their uniforms?

    They should just open that up, like the Fed side. You can pick any race you want on Fed side and wear whatever you please.

    There should be some things on KDF that are race specific, granted, but openeing up the majority of those parts would actually go a long way to getting players to see that there are a lot of options.
    Originally Posted by mhighison

    That's a little harsh man (Especially the stuff I edited out). If you actually compare the number of costume parts in the base game, KDF and FED have similar numbers of options. Remember that KDF gets all their species specific Uniforms (Orion Bikinis, bare chest Gorn, Nausicaan armor), and all sorts of other options Feds don't get. That being said, I know there is lots to do, and we ARE working on it. We love Klingons, as much as you might think we don't, and we do feel bad when we hear you are disappointed in something.

    New KDF skirt options would be nice, I agree (that's why I'm trying to get them in with the day 0 Season 4 patch!) but there are other KDF things that are a bit more important to the overall experience... and those are being worked on first.

    I guess it depends on who you ask what is important. If he is referring to fixing bugs and any balance issues, then yes those are more important to get in first.

    In my opinion, reworking the lower tier missions for the KDF isn't as important as adding options to the KDF faction. I have asked, A LOT, in chat on Fed side to see why players don't want to come over to the KDF. 9 out of 10 people who answer, they say lack of options.

    They want more ship variety. Not neccessarily more ships types, but more ship parts to customize. They want more uniform options. Which, we have, we just have limited access to.

    What I think the devs aren't thinking about is, everyone at this point has to go Fed first. Most players don't quit playing Fed at lvl 6 and flip sides. They may dabble, but most will stick with Fed till VA.

    When they do come over to KDF, they don't mind having to grind a little, not really It's a different faction and a different feel.

    Having these lower tier missions reoworked and shared among the KDF isn't going to attract new players, simply because these people have alreade done them on the FED side.

    They reason they play FED is because they like the fact that they get new ships, uniforms and customizaton options almost weekly. The missions most would say isn't what keeps them away.

    Cryptic SHOULD know this. They have records for what sells in the C-Store. They know that these customization options are the largest sellers they have. Do they assume the KDF doesn't want those things too?

    I know it's work, but they shouldn't give the FED something and not give the KDF something equal, even if it means they have to release that C-store content a little slower.

    KDF aren't wanting some options, FEDs who want to play KDF are wanting options to flip sides.

    Reworked missions might be nice for new players, but it's not going to be what makes the KDF a favorable faction. Sadly, if it doesn't....I guess we won't see anything else come our way. So, for the sake of that...I hope I'm wrong.

    Cheers.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I hope that you are wrong too... I was thinking the reworked missions might interest more people to play as or with the KDF....This would allow them to come over to the KDF side, but there is the problem of what to do in order to level quickly or in normally quick succession.
    If KDF players were more open to assisting new KDF players to level quickly, or come up with powerleveling teams, there would keep the interest up to the LTG rank...At that point there is equally nothing much to do on either side, unless you count dailies and on the fed side...grinding diplomacy.
    Either way, the way to add people here is to add reworked missions and then to give customization or extremely cool options to the KDF...this might be able to overcome the problem. Perhaps the way to address the leveling situation is to also allow people to take and use ANY foundry mission to count for the daily reward, and this might be an interesting alternative to having many people helping new KDF pilots level quickly....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Hi I am Farley and i invested in a life-time subscription (FEDvestment)!
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