I think many people get caught up in the semantics of words used to describe a new ship. If it is a Refit, it should contain the exact same hull and materials it was built with, just been restored to working order. If it is a "Replica", that is a entire new can of worms.
Star Fleet could easily make a replica ship that looks exactly like the original, but have many changes in both build materials and internals to make it completely modern.
Similar mindset can be seen in housing. Just because it looks like an old victorian home, doesn't mean it is built like one (which can be good or bad in houses ) .
If they are "Replica ships" somewhat like the NX is, than I have no problems with it being a Tier 5 or higher, because in reality, in the here and now, it is completely possible to do similar.
here we go again the caps represent only a dialog to the game part.
No one in this thread is saying they dont like the ship. they are fine with the ship being in game. We are saying for the most part that as the ship goes its a warp 7 capable ship and its nice for a lt and hell even a lt cmdr position. if you want to keep it on then just upgrade its parts internally. do not expect it to go up against a bigger and more advanced ship though. Starfleet saw the logic in making better and bigger ships to go faster and handle the tech of the century.
I do know what fuels this want now though, Games been out for over a year. Connie has been in the game for over a year and only now we get this wanting fuel for a T5 supper "connie". Kinda like the laugh that the federation had carriers like the klingons. You see in cryptic money scheme to want to cash in on people wants by bringing the nx class into the game even though you havent seen one on screen for over 200 years lol. People got it mixed up in their head that starfleet would bring back any ship and if they do why not make it a ubber admiral ship.
Ya see an engineer would know that these ships can not forefill the role of an admirals part because they are limited in size and capability, not to mention warp power. I do blame some of this on cryptic for giving you guys the false sense of star trek ship design as well as no penalty. An admiral would not truthfully fly in this ship. They are a great assest and to loose one is well dangerous. I mean gene did make sense when he approve these ship designs. CBS has made sense from the star trek design. I would hope cryptic would make sense when continuing on star trek ship design and abilities.
No one is against a connie being in game as it is there already, but we are against the notion that a connie should be a T5 with 8 weapon slots. That is what you guys are really arguing about. you dont want the connie you just want that ship to have 8 weapon slots 4 forward and 4 aft. You want it to have the ability of a defiant, sovey, galaxy, or interpid. Those ships desserve their part because theya re of the future and frankly way bigger then the connie in all respects.
What is this connie T5 going to do?
How is it conceived to be new when its old?
Where is it getting it power from to support T5 weapons?
You see you can upgrade the ship to mark XI gear so why cant you guys be happy with that. hmmm because its not about the ship or flying the ship. you just want it to be as bad as the sovey or any ship of its class in T5 area. No support of canon of a connie coming back into service for rear admiral use.
Where is your logical support for such a change besides i want iwhat i want and if i give money i should get what i want no matter if its logical or canon. I just want it because i am giving money for it.
Sigh...actually, I don't want. I'm one of those don't-cares. As I said in another thread, I have this special ability to ignore the things that bother me in the insignificant aspects of my life - like what tier a make-believe spaceship occupies in a video game. I'm only in this conversation because it bothers me that the canon-purists think that they are the true disciples of Trek and that if it doesn't pass their canon critique, it shouldn't be in the game. Which conveniently ignores the fact that there are 200 year old uniforms and ships already in the game.
The $ argument is really the only one that needs to apply. Cryptic is a business, and if they feel that the financial beniefits of a T5 connie outweigh the risks of alienating the hardcore, or the canon purists, they will do it. They will write an imaginative text blurb like the one that went with the NX purchase, and it'll be done.
Now, if it does happen, I'd prefer to see a T5 version of the TMP Connie - that'd be a lot easier for me to ignore than a T5 TOS connie. Either way, the game will still play on and those who aren't happy with the outcome will have to gauge for themselves how unhappy with it they truely are. I doubt few will walk over it, but some people take this stuff a bit too seriously, I guess.
There have been many discussions where its been pointed out by Cryptic that fun trumps canon.
I think many people get caught up in the semantics of words used to describe a new ship. If it is a Refit, it should contain the exact same hull and materials it was built with, just been restored to working order. If it is a "Replica", that is a entire new can of worms.
Star Fleet could easily make a replica ship that looks exactly like the original, but have many changes in both build materials and internals to make it completely modern.
Similar mindset can be seen in housing. Just because it looks like an old victorian home, doesn't mean it is built like one (which can be good or bad in houses ) .
If they are "Replica ships" somewhat like the NX is, than I have no problems with it being a Tier 5 or higher, because in reality, in the here and now, it is completely possible to do similar.
not exactly. you can have a victorian fasade but not a victorian with modern applications. I should know as being in the engineer field myself. If you change the victorian internally or externally it is not considered a victorian but a modern house. this is why victorian houses are restored with minimal construction aplications towards new building. while the cement can be new. the design must stay the same. why do you think it cost major money more then a modern house to restore a victorian. i would know in nyc we have tones of them. some people spend the money and some just forget about the Grandfarther clause protection and upgrade the house for cheaper.
Like i said whats the point. its a small ship by starfleet standards. 305 m x 144 x 75 so thats not really big ya know. in respect a defiant would take this ship out easily but like i said gents. I am brinigng engineering logic to this thread. all i keep reading is i want it and because of that i think it should be done.
There have been many discussions where its been pointed out by Cryptic that fun trumps canon.
That in itself is a lie. you should not spread such lies as it has been said on video and in threads that they wish to keep to canon and at the same time make sure the game is fun for all to play. even get some non trek people into the genre.
Magnis:
You start bringing "realism" into this, we'll be here all day.
Realistically, we shouldn't all be admirals.
Hell, realistically we all should have been relieved of command and court-martialed after being suckered/railroaded in "Divide et Impera"!
There's realism, and then there's (entirely made up, lest we forget) canon, and then there's this game. I can't represent the distance between them without bringing in astronomical units.
Again, I challenge you or anyone to spend a half hour at ESD, watching the crowd and listening to Zone chatter, and tell me that this game is at all faithful to canon and/or realism.
It seems we are back to the part were people are saying its in game. Where in this game is there a Tier 5 Constitution?
There isnt, and thats what people are asking for, not a Upgraded tier 1 ship, Not a Refitted tier 1 ship, not a "well you have the pre order Constitution so deal with"
People are only asking for a NEW ship that LOOKS like a Constitution on a larger scale.
It would not be the same ship currently in game with more console/weapon slots. It would be a brand NEW ship, similar in size to the current tier 5 cruisers already in game. Some, myself included, said even give it the same console/weapon layout as the current cruisers.
It would not be PVP breaking, seeing as the console layout is already a given, and its not a "man, 100yrd old plus ship just blew up my brand new imaginary super cruiser/Bop/NEG/whatever.
Isnt more choices better then fewer? Isnt a feature that may attract more people to the game worth it?
You can do your own forum digging, but as I remember it, it was said that canon would be followed to a point, but in the end, fun (and game mechanics too if I recall correctly) will beat out canon when it has to.
I think the conversation was in regards to something like "why do all of these fed ships have weapons other than phasers and torpedos?! Thats not canon!!"
Magnis:
You start bringing "realism" into this, we'll be here all day.
Realistically, we shouldn't all be admirals.
Hell, realistically we all should have been relieved of command and court-martialed after being suckered/railroaded in "Divide et Impera"!
There's realism, and then there's (entirely made up, lest we forget) canon, and then there's this game. I can't represent the distance between them without bringing in astronomical units.
Again, I challenge you or anyone to spend a half hour at ESD, watching the crowd and listening to Zone chatter, and tell me that this game is at all faithful to canon and/or realism.
never said it was, you took that stance based upon one post perhaps my last. All i consider is the game to stay true to its ship design and aspects of ship abilities as best as possible. ill say it in bold since many cant seem to read.
"I AM NOT AGAINST A CONNIE BEING IN THE GAME. ITS ALREADY THERE AND THAT IS AWESOME."
A CONNIE SHOULD NOT BE T5 BECAUSE IT TAKES THE FLAVOR AND HISTORY AWAY FROM THE GAME AS WELL AS THE LOGIC OF THE SHIPS PROS AND CONS.
That had to be done because when i read replies with my post people keep typing that i dont like the ship or want it in game. that shows pure ignorance or the ability to read correctly. look its simple cryptic will either do this or not. take their punches and make this star trek or star junk. point in case lol
You can do your own forum digging, but as I remember it, it was said that canon would be followed to a point, but in the end, fun (and game mechanics too if I recall correctly) will beat out canon when it has to.
I think the conversation was in regards to something like "why do all of these fed ships have weapons other than phasers and torpedos?! Thats not canon!!"
And try to find some manners, eh?
YES, you have misrepresented the true statements of both executive producers via video feed, twitter as well as forum statements. i do have manners i did not call you a liar i said your statement is a lie. know the difference.
"I AM NOT AGAINST A CONNIE BEING IN THE GAME. ITS ALREADY THERE AND THAT IS AWESOME."
A CONNIE SHOULD NOT BE T5 BECAUSE IT TAKES THE FLAVOR AND HISTORY AWAY FROM THE GAME AS WELL AS THE LOGIC OF THE SHIPS PROS AND CONS.
l
All quotes does not make your point anymore valid.
You say we have a Constitution in game so we shouldn't have another one, then how do you explain the various other ships that have two types at different tiers? and not to bring the Klingon's into it, but they have a Bop at every level and a refitted version, for a total of 6.
And how does the most iconic Star Trek Ship take away from the so called "Flavor"?
And why are you harping on logic, when we are discussing imaginary internet space ships?
not exactly. you can have a victorian fasade but not a victorian with modern applications. I should know as being in the engineer field myself. If you change the victorian internally or externally it is not considered a victorian but a modern house. this is why victorian houses are restored with minimal construction aplications towards new building. while the cement can be new. the design must stay the same. why do you think it cost major money more then a modern house to restore a victorian. i would know in nyc we have tones of them. some people spend the money and some just forget about the Grandfarther clause protection and upgrade the house for cheaper.
Like i said whats the point. its a small ship by starfleet standards. 305 m x 144 x 75 so thats not really big ya know. in respect a defiant would take this ship out easily but like i said gents. I am brinigng engineering logic.
Right, but regardless of the materials to build it, from the curb, it looks like an old Victorian home correct? And for the record I am talking ground up build, made to look like an old victorian home, using 100% new construction.
That is all I am getting at. with ships that "look" like the old originals, but are not constructed the same, or have the same equipment powering it. Throw whatever label on it you like.
Negative. The screens you refer to, if they are the ones I'm thinking of are nothing more than Excelsior class ships seen from a below angle. The ONLY time we see a Connie refit after the Kirk era movies is as wreckage at Wolf 359.
We never saw a Soverign either (because TPTB didn't want people thinking it was the Ent-E as that model was reserved for the new TNG films back in the day.) We didn't see TOS Connies (or refit connies) because they didn't have a filming model available. I wouldn't discount things just because to TV production limitations.
All quotes does not make your point anymore valid.
You say we have a Constitution in game so we shouldn't have another one, then how do you explain the various other ships that have two types at different tiers? and not to bring the Klingon's into it, but they have a Bop at every level and a refitted version, for a total of 6.
And how does the most iconic Star Trek Ship take away from the so called "Flavor"?
And why are you harping on logic, when we are discussing imaginary internet space ships?
okay ill bite on this post lol its to funny
yes I am saying there is no reference to another one in this time period like oh the klingons have the BOP and have not changed for centuries. not to mention klingon tech and federation tech is way different plus the culture and ideals .
flavor of its role in star trek, while it was great in the past no amount of tech will or can make it great in the future. this is why the line was decom. Not just the ship the whole line.
Hope that answers two of your statements. now dont we see two different types of star ships from the movies. lets see reference of these ships you call out but dont name lol
defiant: yup their are two versions ds9 two different types
excelsior: yup two versions in shows and movie there ds9 two different types too
Galaxy: yup two versions in there as well TNG two different types, matter of fact three types
intrepid: yup two versions, voyager has two different types there two
nebula: TNG, DS9, First Contact
That is it kiddies only 4 ships with two different types in the game. they are all show in their respective classes and respective roles. The connie is also shown in its respective role. Like i said if you want as a admiral to fly the ship then you can its your choice but hmmm for it to have a added punch to it because of no other reason but to come up to par with a better ship.
hmmm logic is based upon the story. not human logical application. true this is a game but it is also a story. ka story that needs to make some sense. a story that is told and has grown for over 40 years because legend. This story has also impacted our past, present and future as we know it to this day and perhaps beyond.
We never saw a Soverign either (because TPTB didn't want people thinking it was the Ent-E as that model was reserved for the new TNG films back in the day.) We didn't see TOS Connies (or refit connies) because they didn't have a filming model available. I wouldn't discount things just because to TV production limitations.
dont remeebr seeing any sov at wolf 359 not made yet or a connie because well the line was decomed by that time frame. Yes they had plenty of models of ships for star trek. go see the tng design notes and dvds to get the logic of ship models and time periods much was not limited in truth. you do not see a connie once in TNG nor do you see a sov in TNG. reference to it all the defiant i do belive was created before the sovey. matter of speaking i think they was only 3 around the time of first contect.
just went over best of both worlds i do see what looks like a connie at frame 4:32 go figure.
You know thats the thing i don't understand is how a bridge console with a commander sitting at it would only be keyed for an ensign level of use. what captain says hey commander only use your ensign lvel skills?
other than its an mmo and they want you graduating to the new ships.
So if we can agree somewhat that these older ships are all replicas built with the newer modular design, then why is the issue it's a thousand years old come into play?
and for those saying that micro tech and miniaturization would decrease effectiveness then guess we should all start carrying cell phones the size of a car tire in order for them to have enough power and storage space right, cuase with 500 gig hard drives the size of the drive is huge compared to the old 10 megabyters right?
hard drives as small as the ones in a laptop can't reach 500 gigs can they, oh wait they can so yeah miniaturization does work.
i'd insert technobabble but then nobody would understand it.
Originally Posted by Armsman
We never saw a Soverign either (because TPTB didn't want people thinking it was the Ent-E as that model was reserved for the new TNG films back in the day.) We didn't see TOS Connies (or refit connies) because they didn't have a filming model available. I wouldn't discount things just because to TV production limitations.
dont remeebr seeing any sov at wolf 359 not made yet or a connie because well the line was decomed by that time frame. Yes they had plenty of models of ships for star trek. go see the tng design notes and dvds to get the logic of ship models and time periods much was not limited in truth. you do not see a connie once in TNG nor do you see a sov in TNG. reference to it all the defiant i do belive was created before the sovey. matter of speaking i think they was only 3 around the time of first contect.
just went over best of both worlds i do see what looks like a connie at frame 4:32 go figure.
I probably shopuld have manually quoted (like I did here); as I wasn't responding to the 'Wolf 359' portion specifically, nore to the fact someone stated we never saw TOS Connies during the Dominion War on DS9; and that was more a post of "Hey we didn't see Soverigns the in teh Dominion War".
well jewkisman its simple cryptic messed up on how to use BO and for that matter captain skills via star trek way. they created it the quick way. to become a rear admiral in a game in a month without any grinding or effort was well neglectful but hey whats done is done. what they did to try and limit us was to say this consol can only do this function even if you are a commander who learned about this stuff in less the 1 or 2 clicks lol
there is a good reason why we dont see any, there is only 3 of them and well they are preciuos to the federation. look at the time line of the enterprise e into the fray.
1 is the enterprise E, 1 is the soverign and i forgot the name of the third one. it was like still in dry dock but moved because of security reason. The info is scarce on the 3 sovey but the two are definits
So if we can agree somewhat that these older ships are all replicas built with the newer modular design, then why is the issue it's a thousand years old come into play?
Because a ship like that is already in the game. It's the Excaliber-class, the description of which reads: "Updating the iconic profile of the Constitution class, the Excalibur is the first of a group of new, state-of-the-art cruisers intended to fill a variety of roles for Starfleet." And it's T2.
New and state-of-the-art. So how can refitting an older ship result in that ship becoming more powerful than a ship specifically designed with new state-of-the-art technology?
EDIT: The current pattern of retrofits is +2 tiers at most (Intrepid is T4 / Intrepid Retrofit is T5. Nebula is T2 / Nebula Retrofit is T5. Excelsior is T2 / Excelsior Retrofit is T5). I'm fine with that. So that would make the TOS starter ship retrofit a T3, equivalent to the non-retrofit Excelsior.
I suspect a lot of it comes down to not actually liking the Tier system, period, and/or wanting to fly any ship they please/like the looks (and other characteristics) of at the level cap without being crippled by how the game scales.
I think another part is that our characters level up nicely and only need new equipment as they reach each rank, our Bridge Officers level up and only need new equipment each rank, but our ships DON'T level up each rank and so we end up having to trade them in just to stay current. So I can go through the game without having to make any major changes to my Character or my crew except to promote them every once in a while but my ship which should only need a few upgrades to keep current can't despite this always being the case on screen becuase of some abitrary limit imposed upon us.
Magnis:
You start bringing "realism" into this, we'll be here all day.
Realistically, we shouldn't all be admirals.
Hell, realistically we all should have been relieved of command and court-martialed after being suckered/railroaded in "Divide et Impera"!
Hell if realism was a factor a lot of the Fed characters who PVP all the time ar Admiral would be court-martialed for incompetence or reassigned to a desk job for losing the majority of the time to the Klingons, and those that weren't would probably either be dead or POWs in prison camps. Also the Federation would have likely surrendered to the Klingons by now.
I probably shopuld have manually quoted (like I did here); as I wasn't responding to the 'Wolf 359' portion specifically, nore to the fact someone stated we never saw TOS Connies during the Dominion War on DS9; and that was more a post of "Hey we didn't see Soverigns the in teh Dominion War".
you didnt see any sovereigns during the dominion war because the Enterprise was on Flag showing mission, and battleing the borg :P first contact and insurrection was both during the dominion war :P
I still think a lot of people are missing the point.
End Game Connie will come not because of any technobabble excuse or reason.
It will come because it's an iconic ship people want.
The Formula is"
People want something that is THE icon of Star Trek and it will make Cryptic money both with new subscribers and on the C-Store.
People that want to restrict others from getting this prevent Cryptic from making this money because they can't mind their own business and not worry about what other people are flying.
I'm sure Cryptic will "side" with those not restricting others fun.
I still think a lot of people are missing the point.
End Game Connie will come not because of any technobabble excuse or reason.
It will come because it's an iconic ship people want.
The Formula is"
People want something that is THE icon of Star Trek and it will make Cryptic money both with new subscribers and on the C-Store.
People that want to restrict others from getting this prevent Cryptic from making this money because they can't mind their own business and not worry about what other people are flying.
I'm sure Cryptic will "side" with those not restricting others fun. [/QUOTE
i'm fine with you having your flying trash can ship with a dinner plate attached to it and two straws for necels :P as long as i get a toggle that lets me wipe it out of existence
you didnt see any sovereigns during the dominion war because the Enterprise was on Flag showing mission, and battleing the borg :P first contact and insurrection was both during the dominion war :P
No first contact was a month before Cardassia joined the Dominion close to a year BEFORE the war.
i'm fine with you having your flying trash can ship with a dinner plate attached to it and two straws for necels :P as long as i get a toggle that lets me wipe it out of existence
I think another part is that our characters level up nicely and only need new equipment as they reach each rank, our Bridge Officers level up and only need new equipment each rank, but our ships DON'T level up each rank and so we end up having to trade them in just to stay current. So I can go through the game without having to make any major changes to my Character or my crew except to promote them every once in a while but my ship which should only need a few upgrades to keep current can't despite this always being the case on screen becuase of some abitrary limit imposed upon us.
Hell if realism was a factor a lot of the Fed characters who PVP all the time ar Admiral would be court-martialed for incompetence or reassigned to a desk job for losing the majority of the time to the Klingons, and those that weren't would probably either be dead or POWs in prison camps. Also the Federation would have likely surrendered to the Klingons by now.
You mean my flying ICON of the entire Star trek franchise without which there would be no other ships?
Yes please.
if you want be technical about it :P without the pheonix there be no connie for you want :P as there no federation and there be no warp capable ships :P
I still think a lot of people are missing the point.
End Game Connie will come not because of any technobabble excuse or reason.
It will come because it's an iconic ship people want.
The Formula is"
People want something that is THE icon of Star Trek and it will make Cryptic money both with new subscribers and on the C-Store.
People that want to restrict others from getting this prevent Cryptic from making this money because they can't mind their own business and not worry about what other people are flying.
I'm sure Cryptic will "side" with those not restricting others fun.
just because people will buy it don't mean its worth the man power invovled that could have been spend better elsewhere
Because a ship like that is already in the game. It's the Excaliber-class, the description of which reads: "Updating the iconic profile of the Constitution class, the Excalibur is the first of a group of new, state-of-the-art cruisers intended to fill a variety of roles for Starfleet." And it's T2.
New and state-of-the-art. So how can refitting an older ship result in that ship becoming more powerful than a ship specifically designed with new state-of-the-art technology?
EDIT: The current pattern of retrofits is +2 tiers at most (Intrepid is T4 / Intrepid Retrofit is T5. Nebula is T2 / Nebula Retrofit is T5. Excelsior is T2 / Excelsior Retrofit is T5). I'm fine with that. So that would make the TOS starter ship retrofit a T3, equivalent to the non-retrofit Excelsior.
Your math is off a bit...
T5 - T2 = T3...
Therefore the pattern is averaging +3 Tiers or less....
Intrepid is T4 / Intrepid Retrofit is T5 = +1
Nebula is T2 / Nebula Retrofit is T5 = +3
Excelsior is T2 / Excelsior Retrofit is T5 = +3...
So it would be a Tier-4 if the Classic Enterprise were upped by your scale. (+3)
I still think a lot of people are missing the point.
End Game Connie will come not because of any technobabble excuse or reason.
It will come because it's an iconic ship people want.
The Formula is"
People want something that is THE icon of Star Trek and it will make Cryptic money both with new subscribers and on the C-Store.
People that want to restrict others from getting this prevent Cryptic from making this money because they can't mind their own business and not worry about what other people are flying.
I'm sure Cryptic will "side" with those not restricting others fun.
I wouldn't count your Connies till they leave spacedock, if I were you.
As yet, I haven't seen one official response coming down one way or the other.
The Devs held firm on "no inverted flight" despite lots of people wanting it. There was no insurmountable technical reason for this decision; it was based entirely on what the Devs felt captured the feel of Trek starship combat best.
If Atari/Cryptic/CBS (any of them) decide that it's bad to have a T-5 TOS Constitution in the game, you won't get it. Especially if CBS thinks a Connie owning a Galaxy looks bad and uses its' veto power. If that happens, all of the people wanting one are flat out of luck no matter what Cryptic wants.
just because people will buy it don't mean its worth the man power invovled that could have been spend better elsewhere
If the amount of money that will be made from people buying it is greater than the amount of money that will be made from whatever the "elsewhere" work is, then it is worth it from a business standpoint.
Comments
Star Fleet could easily make a replica ship that looks exactly like the original, but have many changes in both build materials and internals to make it completely modern.
Similar mindset can be seen in housing. Just because it looks like an old victorian home, doesn't mean it is built like one (which can be good or bad in houses
If they are "Replica ships" somewhat like the NX is, than I have no problems with it being a Tier 5 or higher, because in reality, in the here and now, it is completely possible to do similar.
Sigh...actually, I don't want. I'm one of those don't-cares. As I said in another thread, I have this special ability to ignore the things that bother me in the insignificant aspects of my life - like what tier a make-believe spaceship occupies in a video game. I'm only in this conversation because it bothers me that the canon-purists think that they are the true disciples of Trek and that if it doesn't pass their canon critique, it shouldn't be in the game. Which conveniently ignores the fact that there are 200 year old uniforms and ships already in the game.
The $ argument is really the only one that needs to apply. Cryptic is a business, and if they feel that the financial beniefits of a T5 connie outweigh the risks of alienating the hardcore, or the canon purists, they will do it. They will write an imaginative text blurb like the one that went with the NX purchase, and it'll be done.
Now, if it does happen, I'd prefer to see a T5 version of the TMP Connie - that'd be a lot easier for me to ignore than a T5 TOS connie. Either way, the game will still play on and those who aren't happy with the outcome will have to gauge for themselves how unhappy with it they truely are. I doubt few will walk over it, but some people take this stuff a bit too seriously, I guess.
There have been many discussions where its been pointed out by Cryptic that fun trumps canon.
not exactly. you can have a victorian fasade but not a victorian with modern applications. I should know as being in the engineer field myself. If you change the victorian internally or externally it is not considered a victorian but a modern house. this is why victorian houses are restored with minimal construction aplications towards new building. while the cement can be new. the design must stay the same. why do you think it cost major money more then a modern house to restore a victorian. i would know in nyc we have tones of them. some people spend the money and some just forget about the Grandfarther clause protection and upgrade the house for cheaper.
Like i said whats the point. its a small ship by starfleet standards. 305 m x 144 x 75 so thats not really big ya know. in respect a defiant would take this ship out easily but like i said gents. I am brinigng engineering logic to this thread. all i keep reading is i want it and because of that i think it should be done.
That in itself is a lie. you should not spread such lies as it has been said on video and in threads that they wish to keep to canon and at the same time make sure the game is fun for all to play. even get some non trek people into the genre.
You start bringing "realism" into this, we'll be here all day.
Realistically, we shouldn't all be admirals.
Hell, realistically we all should have been relieved of command and court-martialed after being suckered/railroaded in "Divide et Impera"!
There's realism, and then there's (entirely made up, lest we forget) canon, and then there's this game. I can't represent the distance between them without bringing in astronomical units.
Again, I challenge you or anyone to spend a half hour at ESD, watching the crowd and listening to Zone chatter, and tell me that this game is at all faithful to canon and/or realism.
There isnt, and thats what people are asking for, not a Upgraded tier 1 ship, Not a Refitted tier 1 ship, not a "well you have the pre order Constitution so deal with"
People are only asking for a NEW ship that LOOKS like a Constitution on a larger scale.
It would not be the same ship currently in game with more console/weapon slots. It would be a brand NEW ship, similar in size to the current tier 5 cruisers already in game. Some, myself included, said even give it the same console/weapon layout as the current cruisers.
It would not be PVP breaking, seeing as the console layout is already a given, and its not a "man, 100yrd old plus ship just blew up my brand new imaginary super cruiser/Bop/NEG/whatever.
Isnt more choices better then fewer? Isnt a feature that may attract more people to the game worth it?
You callin me a liar?
You can do your own forum digging, but as I remember it, it was said that canon would be followed to a point, but in the end, fun (and game mechanics too if I recall correctly) will beat out canon when it has to.
I think the conversation was in regards to something like "why do all of these fed ships have weapons other than phasers and torpedos?! Thats not canon!!"
And try to find some manners, eh?
never said it was, you took that stance based upon one post perhaps my last. All i consider is the game to stay true to its ship design and aspects of ship abilities as best as possible. ill say it in bold since many cant seem to read.
"I AM NOT AGAINST A CONNIE BEING IN THE GAME. ITS ALREADY THERE AND THAT IS AWESOME."
A CONNIE SHOULD NOT BE T5 BECAUSE IT TAKES THE FLAVOR AND HISTORY AWAY FROM THE GAME AS WELL AS THE LOGIC OF THE SHIPS PROS AND CONS.
That had to be done because when i read replies with my post people keep typing that i dont like the ship or want it in game. that shows pure ignorance or the ability to read correctly. look its simple cryptic will either do this or not. take their punches and make this star trek or star junk. point in case lol
YES, you have misrepresented the true statements of both executive producers via video feed, twitter as well as forum statements. i do have manners i did not call you a liar i said your statement is a lie. know the difference.
All quotes does not make your point anymore valid.
You say we have a Constitution in game so we shouldn't have another one, then how do you explain the various other ships that have two types at different tiers? and not to bring the Klingon's into it, but they have a Bop at every level and a refitted version, for a total of 6.
And how does the most iconic Star Trek Ship take away from the so called "Flavor"?
And why are you harping on logic, when we are discussing imaginary internet space ships?
Right, but regardless of the materials to build it, from the curb, it looks like an old Victorian home correct? And for the record I am talking ground up build, made to look like an old victorian home, using 100% new construction.
That is all I am getting at. with ships that "look" like the old originals, but are not constructed the same, or have the same equipment powering it. Throw whatever label on it you like.
We never saw a Soverign either (because TPTB didn't want people thinking it was the Ent-E as that model was reserved for the new TNG films back in the day.) We didn't see TOS Connies (or refit connies) because they didn't have a filming model available. I wouldn't discount things just because to TV production limitations.
okay ill bite on this post lol its to funny
yes I am saying there is no reference to another one in this time period like oh the klingons have the BOP and have not changed for centuries. not to mention klingon tech and federation tech is way different plus the culture and ideals .
flavor of its role in star trek, while it was great in the past no amount of tech will or can make it great in the future. this is why the line was decom. Not just the ship the whole line.
Hope that answers two of your statements. now dont we see two different types of star ships from the movies. lets see reference of these ships you call out but dont name lol
defiant: yup their are two versions ds9 two different types
excelsior: yup two versions in shows and movie there ds9 two different types too
Galaxy: yup two versions in there as well TNG two different types, matter of fact three types
intrepid: yup two versions, voyager has two different types there two
nebula: TNG, DS9, First Contact
That is it kiddies only 4 ships with two different types in the game. they are all show in their respective classes and respective roles. The connie is also shown in its respective role. Like i said if you want as a admiral to fly the ship then you can its your choice but hmmm for it to have a added punch to it because of no other reason but to come up to par with a better ship.
hmmm logic is based upon the story. not human logical application. true this is a game but it is also a story. ka story that needs to make some sense. a story that is told and has grown for over 40 years because legend. This story has also impacted our past, present and future as we know it to this day and perhaps beyond.
dont remeebr seeing any sov at wolf 359 not made yet or a connie because well the line was decomed by that time frame. Yes they had plenty of models of ships for star trek. go see the tng design notes and dvds to get the logic of ship models and time periods much was not limited in truth. you do not see a connie once in TNG nor do you see a sov in TNG. reference to it all the defiant i do belive was created before the sovey. matter of speaking i think they was only 3 around the time of first contect.
just went over best of both worlds i do see what looks like a connie at frame 4:32 go figure.
other than its an mmo and they want you graduating to the new ships.
So if we can agree somewhat that these older ships are all replicas built with the newer modular design, then why is the issue it's a thousand years old come into play?
and for those saying that micro tech and miniaturization would decrease effectiveness then guess we should all start carrying cell phones the size of a car tire in order for them to have enough power and storage space right, cuase with 500 gig hard drives the size of the drive is huge compared to the old 10 megabyters right?
hard drives as small as the ones in a laptop can't reach 500 gigs can they, oh wait they can so yeah miniaturization does work.
i'd insert technobabble but then nobody would understand it.
I probably shopuld have manually quoted (like I did here); as I wasn't responding to the 'Wolf 359' portion specifically, nore to the fact someone stated we never saw TOS Connies during the Dominion War on DS9; and that was more a post of "Hey we didn't see Soverigns the in teh Dominion War".
there is a good reason why we dont see any, there is only 3 of them and well they are preciuos to the federation. look at the time line of the enterprise e into the fray.
1 is the enterprise E, 1 is the soverign and i forgot the name of the third one. it was like still in dry dock but moved because of security reason. The info is scarce on the 3 sovey but the two are definits
Because a ship like that is already in the game. It's the Excaliber-class, the description of which reads: "Updating the iconic profile of the Constitution class, the Excalibur is the first of a group of new, state-of-the-art cruisers intended to fill a variety of roles for Starfleet." And it's T2.
New and state-of-the-art. So how can refitting an older ship result in that ship becoming more powerful than a ship specifically designed with new state-of-the-art technology?
EDIT: The current pattern of retrofits is +2 tiers at most (Intrepid is T4 / Intrepid Retrofit is T5. Nebula is T2 / Nebula Retrofit is T5. Excelsior is T2 / Excelsior Retrofit is T5). I'm fine with that. So that would make the TOS starter ship retrofit a T3, equivalent to the non-retrofit Excelsior.
Z
I think another part is that our characters level up nicely and only need new equipment as they reach each rank, our Bridge Officers level up and only need new equipment each rank, but our ships DON'T level up each rank and so we end up having to trade them in just to stay current. So I can go through the game without having to make any major changes to my Character or my crew except to promote them every once in a while but my ship which should only need a few upgrades to keep current can't despite this always being the case on screen becuase of some abitrary limit imposed upon us.
Hell if realism was a factor a lot of the Fed characters who PVP all the time ar Admiral would be court-martialed for incompetence or reassigned to a desk job for losing the majority of the time to the Klingons, and those that weren't would probably either be dead or POWs in prison camps. Also the Federation would have likely surrendered to the Klingons by now.
you didnt see any sovereigns during the dominion war because the Enterprise was on Flag showing mission, and battleing the borg :P first contact and insurrection was both during the dominion war :P
End Game Connie will come not because of any technobabble excuse or reason.
It will come because it's an iconic ship people want.
The Formula is"
People want something that is THE icon of Star Trek and it will make Cryptic money both with new subscribers and on the C-Store.
People that want to restrict others from getting this prevent Cryptic from making this money because they can't mind their own business and not worry about what other people are flying.
I'm sure Cryptic will "side" with those not restricting others fun.
No first contact was a month before Cardassia joined the Dominion close to a year BEFORE the war.
You mean like Nero did to the TNG era
True and true.
Yes please.
if you want be technical about it :P without the pheonix there be no connie for you want :P as there no federation and there be no warp capable ships :P
just because people will buy it don't mean its worth the man power invovled that could have been spend better elsewhere
Your math is off a bit...
T5 - T2 = T3...
Therefore the pattern is averaging +3 Tiers or less....
Intrepid is T4 / Intrepid Retrofit is T5 = +1
Nebula is T2 / Nebula Retrofit is T5 = +3
Excelsior is T2 / Excelsior Retrofit is T5 = +3...
So it would be a Tier-4 if the Classic Enterprise were upped by your scale. (+3)
I wouldn't count your Connies till they leave spacedock, if I were you.
As yet, I haven't seen one official response coming down one way or the other.
The Devs held firm on "no inverted flight" despite lots of people wanting it. There was no insurmountable technical reason for this decision; it was based entirely on what the Devs felt captured the feel of Trek starship combat best.
If Atari/Cryptic/CBS (any of them) decide that it's bad to have a T-5 TOS Constitution in the game, you won't get it. Especially if CBS thinks a Connie owning a Galaxy looks bad and uses its' veto power. If that happens, all of the people wanting one are flat out of luck no matter what Cryptic wants.
If the amount of money that will be made from people buying it is greater than the amount of money that will be made from whatever the "elsewhere" work is, then it is worth it from a business standpoint.