They want to make money so yeah I think they'll care about being more popular then the competetion seeing as they are a business.
But CBS is not in the game business. They're just licensing out their IP for money. If there's any real competition there that CBS would care about, it is between the Star Trek and Star Wars franchises themselves.
In fact said new movie seems to be popular with the majority of Trekkies as well as average joe-blow-normal dudes.
And it is also very much not The Original Series, from SFX/starship design through characterization, despite being an excellent extrapolation and distillation of certain character threads. The entire point of the movie was not so much to wipe the slate clean as bombard it from orbit until they were sure.
So I wouldn't expect allies in your cause from the people that movie introduced to Star Trek. The TOS and TMP Connie models are not the ones they iconically assosciate with.
And it is also very much not The Original Series, from SFX/starship design through characterization, despite being an excellent extrapolation and distillation of certain character threads. The entire point of the movie was not so much to wipe the slate clean as bombard it from orbit until they were sure.
So I wouldn't expect allies in your cause from the people that movie introduced to Star Trek. The TOS and TMP Connie models are not the ones they iconically assosciate with.
Yes but if they made the TOS Connie a skin for a T5 Excalibur then thry could make a ship that LOOKS like the one their familar with I know I've done it before.
Lets approach this from another direction. Do you believe that a Vice Admiral should NOT be allowed to utilize a TOS Constitution to the fullest extent allowed for by his rank in the game? If not, why not?
Sure.
And that fullest extent is a weak vessel awkwardly constructed by pounding the square pegs of modern tech into the round hole of a hull design that was retired in favor of a new design, which was itself retired in favor of a new design, well over a century ago.
Lets approach this from another direction. Do you believe that a Vice Admiral should NOT be allowed to utilize a TOS Constitution to the fullest extent allowed for by his rank in the game? If not, why not?
I have no firm prejudice against a T-5 Constitution.
However... I am not convinced that it makes sense that a Vice Admiral is commanding anything less than a Capital ship, and I am not convinced that a Constitution fits that role.
I'm not even sure that VA's should be in anything called an "Escort", other than the fact that the game design seems to require it.
I doubt they care all that much about whether or not a new ship in game will make more money...
Because either way...,
They will still get their Pre-Arranged Contractual Amount...
ATARI/Cryptic would be the logical ones to care most, about the fluctuations caused by In-Game additions and the number of players requesting them, as that would affect their bottom line on a monthly basis.
I doubt they care all that much about whether or not a new ship in game will make more money...
Because either way...,
They will still get their Pre-Arranged Contractual Amount...
ATARI/Cryptic would be the logical ones to care most, about the fluctuations caused by In-Game additions and the number of player requesting them.
You really have no idea. Its possible in addition to a pre-arranged amount, they also have some of % in the contract as well. I'm not saying your wrong, just that you really have no idea and are just guessing. And my point is that your guess does not prove his statement wrong.
Yes but if they made the TOS Connie a skin for a T5 Excalibur then thry could make a ship that LOOKS like the one their familar with I know I've done it before.
Except the Abrams Constitution is larger than even a Galaxy-class, while the Excalibur, and Excaliburs stuffed into TMP Constitution hulls, are much, much smaller. So, who gets forced to change?
Ah! But this does not speak to my point about CBS. CBS could probably care less about whether SWTOR launches or not, and they (possibly) get the final say. I'm not privy to the details of their agreement.
But if they do, and I'm reasonably sure they have broad veto powers, CBS does not currently seem to have a great deal of interest in catering to the request for a Super-Connie.
I think if I were a Dev, I might take offense at the implication that Cryptic can simply be "bribed" or "coerced" into compromising creative integrity, game immersion, or game balance just to make a few extra bucks. Or to shush a few loud voices.
Personally, I'm disturbed by the smug notion that a T-5 TOS Constitution should be considered inevitable and that the people who don't want it in the game should simply give up on their opinion. That's just as bad as trying to silence others on the basis of non-existent engineering principles or debatable canon.
I'm not all-for or all-against a T-5 Connie. In the end, it won't make that much difference to my enjoyment of the game as long as it's a balanced ship.
The lengths people will go to silence their opinions detractors,
Calling in the Devs now to defend a slight to their honor even though it can be considered such only by the broadest stretch of the imagination?
I'm sure that if CBS isn't smart enough as been implied to realize the current wants of the STO community (which could be taken as a slight by the Devs using your broad interpretation) that they have people on payroll to research said wants.
Except the Abrams Constitution is larger than even a Galaxy-class, while the Excalibur, and Excaliburs stuffed into TMP Constitution hulls, are much, much smaller. So, who gets forced to change?
The actual size of the JJ-prise is unknown. There is conflicting scale shots show on screen, and neither of them can be "wrong" since they were both shown.
I have no firm prejudice against a T-5 Constitution.
However... I am not convinced that it makes sense that a Vice Admiral is commanding anything less than a Capital ship, and I am not convinced that a Constitution fits that role.
I'm not even sure that VA's should be in anything called an "Escort", other than the fact that the game design seems to require it.
Well, considering that "Vice Admiral" is really just a ranking system in an MMO...
... and in truth you wouldn't likely have that many Vice Admirals in the same service...
The lengths people will go to silence their opinions detractors,
Calling in the Devs now to defend a slight to their honor even though it can be considered such only by the broadest stretch of the imagination?
I'm sure that if CBS isn't smart enough as been implied to realize the current wants of the STO community (which could be taken as a slight by the Devs using your broad interpretation) that they have people on payroll to research said wants.
I didn't silence anyone. You're obviously still ready to argue. I could turn that argument right back.
Here's a thought. The T3 Excelsior is free. Does that mean the T1 TOSC gets to be free too if we give into this silly T5 everything trend and make a T5 version?
Here's a thought. The T3 Excelsior is free. Does that mean the T1 TOSC gets to be free too if we give into this silly T5 everything trend and make a T5 version?
The T3 Excelsior has always been free, whereas the T1 connie has always been a pre-order exclusive or for sale. The comparison doesnt make sense. If the T3 Excelsior had once been for sale and then been made free when the T5 version came out, you might have some kind of discussion point. But you dont.
And that fullest extent is a weak vessel awkwardly constructed by pounding the square pegs of modern tech into the round hole of a hull design that was retired in favor of a new design, which was itself retired in favor of a new design, well over a century ago.
Yes, but that would STILL be refitting that vessel to its fullest extent.
I'm not sure I can support the idea of refitting the TOS Constitution design to Tier 5 without changing its appearance, as the refit we have seen in the canon changed both the appearance and size of the ship. (For the better, I think) However, if you approach the larger problem of ANY VA level player commanding ANY ship available in the game, then it becomes less clear. The Nova class is as modern as the Nebula class. It's just, well, tiny.
And the Constitution class was NOT retired. It is being built in the game universe today. The U.S.S. Constitution-A is a brand new ship.
The T3 Excelsior has always been free, whereas the T1 connie has always been a pre-order exclusive or for sale. The comparison doesnt make sense. If the T3 Excelsior had once been for sale and then been made free when the T5 version came out, you might have some kind of discussion point. But you dont.
The comparison makes plenty of sense. The reason the Exclesior is free at one level and C-store at the other is precisely because people balked at having to pay twice for ostensibly the same exact ship. So what happens when there's a T5 ship? People have to buy the same ship twice? Buy the ship once and then have to pay for a retrofit token for T5? Or does it come with a retrofit token when you buy it?
The T3 Excelsior has always been free, whereas the T1 connie has always been a pre-order exclusive or for sale. The comparison doesnt make sense.
It particularly doesn't make sense if you consider that the TOS Connie is a sort of "special order" thing, where a ship is built with new technology to look like something old. (Of course, that doesn't stop people from role playing that their Constitution-class is from the past and accidently pulled into the future)
I just take exception to certain attitudes that reek of entitlement.
Perhaps not entitlement, but trying to get more use out of something you paid good money for. (Even if you have to pay more money)
As I've said, I think that ANY Tier 1 or Tier 2 ship should be refittable. The same for the Tier 3 ships that can't be refitted, currently. If you think that "reeks of entitlement", well, I'm sorry, but that's just my opinion. I'd like the option to continue using the ships I grew fond of while levelling.
I realize that others may disagree, or even find their own POV superior.
You really have no idea. Its possible in addition to a pre-arranged amount, they also have some of % in the contract as well. I'm not saying your wrong, just that you really have no idea and are just guessing. And my point is that your guess does not prove his statement wrong.
True...
But I guess I wasn't really trying to dis-prove anything, I was just saying what (IMO, which I forgot to add) ...the most logical arrangement might be...
Except for the fact that the T1 connie has never been free, and the T3 excelsior always has. Try again.
Technically, the T1 was free with your original purchase through Gamestop.
Further, if you recall, T3 Excelsior was not going to be free. It was a compromise.
Either way, it again doesn't invalidate the questions. Should people who have paid for the T1 version get the T5 for free? Do they have to hope they have a retrofit token? Do you have to buy the T1 to get the T5? How would that all work?
Technically, the T1 was free with your original purchase through Gamestop.
Further, if you recall, T3 Excelsior was not going to be free. It was a compromise.
Either way, it again doesn't invalidate the questions. Should people who have paid for the T1 version get the T5 for free? Do they have to hope they have a retrofit token? Do you have to buy the T1 to get the T5? How would that all work?
Most likely...
In what ever way makes the most money for the owners of the game.
Perhaps not entitlement, but trying to get more use out of something you paid good money for. (Even if you have to pay more money)
As I've said, I think that ANY Tier 1 or Tier 2 ship should be refittable. The same for the Tier 3 ships that can't be refitted, currently. If you think that "reeks of entitlement", well, I'm sorry, but that's just my opinion. I'd like the option to continue using the ships I grew fond of while levelling.
I realize that others may disagree, or even find their own POV superior.
Then what you really want is to do away with the Tier system. Most of us agree with replacing the Tier system entirely, but we prefer to replace that system with something that keeps an illusion of some kind of tiering but allows for enough customization for a truly dedicated player to potentially keep their favorite ship around near or at end game even if it is a T1.
Perhaps not entitlement, but trying to get more use out of something you paid good money for. (Even if you have to pay more money)
As I've said, I think that ANY Tier 1 or Tier 2 ship should be refittable. The same for the Tier 3 ships that can't be refitted, currently. If you think that "reeks of entitlement", well, I'm sorry, but that's just my opinion. I'd like the option to continue using the ships I grew fond of while levelling.
I realize that others may disagree, or even find their own POV superior.
Blayyde, you're not the person with the attitude that is setting me off. My apologies for any generalization.
What is being asked for is reasonable from a certain viewpoint and I admit that it is not "unholy" to have a T-5 Constitution in the game, even if I personally don't want it. I don't even mind it if you don't have to pay for it. I also agree that if any ship can get the upgrade treatment, then there's no good reason to exclude one or two ships.
I haven't come to any personal opinion whether all ships should be upgradable or by how much. Ultimately, it's the collective opinion of Cryptic that really matters. We players get a voice, thanks to these forums, but it doesn't mean we have a say or a vote in the outcome.
Then what you really want is to do away with the Tier system. Most of us agree with replacing the Tier system entirely, but we prefer to replace that system with something that keeps an illusion of some kind of tiering but allows for enough customization for a truly dedicated player to potentially keep their favorite ship around near or at end game even if it is a T1.
No, the Tier system still exists. A Tier 2 is still a Tier 2. A Tier 2 refit is a Tier 3, or a Tier 4, or a Tier 5, whatever the devs decide. You may still be required to replace your existing ship with a refit, just as current. And it goes wilthout saying that this upgrade will cost you SOMETHING. You don't just get the ability to use your Lt level ship for free.
The devs could easily continue by bringing out T5 versions of existing ships. I personally think that's silly, though, and think an upgrade system would be better and easier on the devs in the long run. Particularly since the option would be opened for Tier 5 ships to be upgraded to Tier 6, should the level cap be raised, instead of making every single refit the devs have released so far, and requiring a whole new set of "refit" ships, now at Tier 6.
One thing that's not even being mentioned is that the devs are currently adding as part of their design strategy to include a "bonus power" with T5 refits and store bought ships. Do we want to continue that, or should additional Tier upgrades simply increase the effective Tier? The TOS Connie (although not so much the NX) was provided before there even were T5 upgrades available at Vice Admiral, and may have been provided on the belief that players would want a ship of the LOWEST level, not the highest. Does this mean that it should be revisited to fit it closer in the current concept of the game, or is it a "special" case?
Comments
Oh, yes, I liked it. Although I didn't care for the Abrams Enterprise phaser cannons. (Where are my beams?!)
Doesn't mean I want to see them try to relaunch a TV series based on it.
I'd rather see a new series from where the modern series left off, with a new Enterprise.
But CBS is not in the game business. They're just licensing out their IP for money. If there's any real competition there that CBS would care about, it is between the Star Trek and Star Wars franchises themselves.
And it is also very much not The Original Series, from SFX/starship design through characterization, despite being an excellent extrapolation and distillation of certain character threads. The entire point of the movie was not so much to wipe the slate clean as bombard it from orbit until they were sure.
So I wouldn't expect allies in your cause from the people that movie introduced to Star Trek. The TOS and TMP Connie models are not the ones they iconically assosciate with.
Well to be far the TOS based movies never had the Enterprise using phaser beams for some reason.
Sadly unless CBS gets new management that's about as likely as the devil ice skatting to work though I would really like to be wrong about that.
Yes but if they made the TOS Connie a skin for a T5 Excalibur then thry could make a ship that LOOKS like the one their familar with I know I've done it before.
Sure.
And that fullest extent is a weak vessel awkwardly constructed by pounding the square pegs of modern tech into the round hole of a hull design that was retired in favor of a new design, which was itself retired in favor of a new design, well over a century ago.
That's funny, I could have sworn I saw the Motion Picture Enterprise firing beams from the "turret" style phaser emplacements.
Maybe I was thinking of the Reliant firing, under the command of Khan.
I have no firm prejudice against a T-5 Constitution.
However... I am not convinced that it makes sense that a Vice Admiral is commanding anything less than a Capital ship, and I am not convinced that a Constitution fits that role.
I'm not even sure that VA's should be in anything called an "Escort", other than the fact that the game design seems to require it.
I doubt they care all that much about whether or not a new ship in game will make more money...
Because either way...,
They will still get their Pre-Arranged Contractual Amount...
ATARI/Cryptic would be the logical ones to care most, about the fluctuations caused by In-Game additions and the number of players requesting them, as that would affect their bottom line on a monthly basis.
You really have no idea. Its possible in addition to a pre-arranged amount, they also have some of % in the contract as well. I'm not saying your wrong, just that you really have no idea and are just guessing. And my point is that your guess does not prove his statement wrong.
Except the Abrams Constitution is larger than even a Galaxy-class, while the Excalibur, and Excaliburs stuffed into TMP Constitution hulls, are much, much smaller. So, who gets forced to change?
The lengths people will go to silence their opinions detractors,
Calling in the Devs now to defend a slight to their honor even though it can be considered such only by the broadest stretch of the imagination?
I'm sure that if CBS isn't smart enough as been implied to realize the current wants of the STO community (which could be taken as a slight by the Devs using your broad interpretation) that they have people on payroll to research said wants.
The actual size of the JJ-prise is unknown. There is conflicting scale shots show on screen, and neither of them can be "wrong" since they were both shown.
Well, considering that "Vice Admiral" is really just a ranking system in an MMO...
... and in truth you wouldn't likely have that many Vice Admirals in the same service...
Yeah, never mind. Dead end discussion.
I didn't silence anyone. You're obviously still ready to argue. I could turn that argument right back.
The T3 Excelsior has always been free, whereas the T1 connie has always been a pre-order exclusive or for sale. The comparison doesnt make sense. If the T3 Excelsior had once been for sale and then been made free when the T5 version came out, you might have some kind of discussion point. But you dont.
Yes, but that would STILL be refitting that vessel to its fullest extent.
I'm not sure I can support the idea of refitting the TOS Constitution design to Tier 5 without changing its appearance, as the refit we have seen in the canon changed both the appearance and size of the ship. (For the better, I think) However, if you approach the larger problem of ANY VA level player commanding ANY ship available in the game, then it becomes less clear. The Nova class is as modern as the Nebula class. It's just, well, tiny.
And the Constitution class was NOT retired. It is being built in the game universe today. The U.S.S. Constitution-A is a brand new ship.
The comparison makes plenty of sense. The reason the Exclesior is free at one level and C-store at the other is precisely because people balked at having to pay twice for ostensibly the same exact ship. So what happens when there's a T5 ship? People have to buy the same ship twice? Buy the ship once and then have to pay for a retrofit token for T5? Or does it come with a retrofit token when you buy it?
It particularly doesn't make sense if you consider that the TOS Connie is a sort of "special order" thing, where a ship is built with new technology to look like something old. (Of course, that doesn't stop people from role playing that their Constitution-class is from the past and accidently pulled into the future)
I fully agree with you there!
As I have stated elsewhere, there are enough "exceptions" in game that I withdrew any serious opposition to a T-5 anything days ago.
And there's certainly no harm in asking for it.
I just take exception to certain attitudes that reek of entitlement.
Except for the fact that the T1 connie has never been free, and the T3 excelsior always has. Try again.
Perhaps not entitlement, but trying to get more use out of something you paid good money for. (Even if you have to pay more money)
As I've said, I think that ANY Tier 1 or Tier 2 ship should be refittable. The same for the Tier 3 ships that can't be refitted, currently. If you think that "reeks of entitlement", well, I'm sorry, but that's just my opinion. I'd like the option to continue using the ships I grew fond of while levelling.
I realize that others may disagree, or even find their own POV superior.
True...
But I guess I wasn't really trying to dis-prove anything, I was just saying what (IMO, which I forgot to add)
Technically, the T1 was free with your original purchase through Gamestop.
Further, if you recall, T3 Excelsior was not going to be free. It was a compromise.
Either way, it again doesn't invalidate the questions. Should people who have paid for the T1 version get the T5 for free? Do they have to hope they have a retrofit token? Do you have to buy the T1 to get the T5? How would that all work?
Most likely...
In what ever way makes the most money for the owners of the game.
Then what you really want is to do away with the Tier system. Most of us agree with replacing the Tier system entirely, but we prefer to replace that system with something that keeps an illusion of some kind of tiering but allows for enough customization for a truly dedicated player to potentially keep their favorite ship around near or at end game even if it is a T1.
Blayyde, you're not the person with the attitude that is setting me off. My apologies for any generalization.
What is being asked for is reasonable from a certain viewpoint and I admit that it is not "unholy" to have a T-5 Constitution in the game, even if I personally don't want it. I don't even mind it if you don't have to pay for it. I also agree that if any ship can get the upgrade treatment, then there's no good reason to exclude one or two ships.
I haven't come to any personal opinion whether all ships should be upgradable or by how much. Ultimately, it's the collective opinion of Cryptic that really matters. We players get a voice, thanks to these forums, but it doesn't mean we have a say or a vote in the outcome.
No, the Tier system still exists. A Tier 2 is still a Tier 2. A Tier 2 refit is a Tier 3, or a Tier 4, or a Tier 5, whatever the devs decide. You may still be required to replace your existing ship with a refit, just as current. And it goes wilthout saying that this upgrade will cost you SOMETHING. You don't just get the ability to use your Lt level ship for free.
The devs could easily continue by bringing out T5 versions of existing ships. I personally think that's silly, though, and think an upgrade system would be better and easier on the devs in the long run. Particularly since the option would be opened for Tier 5 ships to be upgraded to Tier 6, should the level cap be raised, instead of making every single refit the devs have released so far, and requiring a whole new set of "refit" ships, now at Tier 6.
One thing that's not even being mentioned is that the devs are currently adding as part of their design strategy to include a "bonus power" with T5 refits and store bought ships. Do we want to continue that, or should additional Tier upgrades simply increase the effective Tier? The TOS Connie (although not so much the NX) was provided before there even were T5 upgrades available at Vice Admiral, and may have been provided on the belief that players would want a ship of the LOWEST level, not the highest. Does this mean that it should be revisited to fit it closer in the current concept of the game, or is it a "special" case?