Caster Nirvana Talismans Qq V 2.0

This was a glitch regardless just like the Dragoons, and it was bound to eventaully be shut down. Im not saying this just cause I got a farmable sin and BM, but because this was an abuse of the game and it wasnt meant to be as was the veno's fox form spell cast glitch(Tho I never heard about it until now). Same thing can be said for Venos fox form and barbs true form with claws but those are eventaully bound to be removed at some point too or BM's stun cancel glitch. Once a glitch becomes highly abused it will be eliminated eventaully....Im against glitch abuse and always will be. I agree also that we do enjoy playing a certain class, I was a veno first and eventaully didnt feel it to be my true calling, ended up being a BM by soul. So maybe casters nirvy can be changed to be farmed in some way BUT reduce their higher drops in the process to make it equal to normal nirvy's drops and talismans stackable same as keys. But im sure then people are gonna QQ over nerf on casters nirvy drops being lowered to normal nirvys drops and call it "Unbalanced".

dog10240 wrote: »

This was a glitch regardless just like the Dragoons, and it was bound to eventaully be shut down. Im not saying this just cause I got a farmable sin and BM, but because this was an abuse of the game and it wasnt meant to be as was the veno's fox form spell cast glitch(Tho I never heard about it until now). Same thing can be said for Venos fox form and barbs true form with claws but those are eventaully bound to be removed at some point too or BM's stun cancel glitch. Once a glitch becomes highly abused it will be eliminated eventaully....Im against glitch abuse and always will be. I agree also that we do enjoy playing a certain class, I was a veno first and eventaully didnt feel it to be my true calling, ended up being a BM by soul. So maybe casters nirvy can be changed to be farmed in some way BUT reduce their higher drops in the process to make it equal to normal nirvy's drops and talismans stackable same as keys. But im sure then people are gonna QQ over nerf on casters nirvy drops being lowered to normal nirvys drops and call it "Unbalanced".

And in much the same way aps has been (though not a glitch) a long standing issue in this game which the developers clearly refuse to do anything about because of the negative fallout they would receive. I remember ages ago when sins first came out I made one and thought to myself this is op and once I switched my bm to fist I could not believe it. Since then I quit because PWI clearly have a situation where the players and not the developers decide balance.

The half fix introduced which in reality does nothing to address the real issue is developers feeble attempt at addressing a huge balance gap firmly out of their control. I lost all respect for the developers once I realised that they do not have the fortitude to take control of their own game and do the one thing which should have been done ages ago and that is to nerf aps to 2.0.

I have read almost every thread seen almost every excuse and every half baked justification for a flawed mechanic. I was hoping this new patch would address the issue but clearly the developers and all others who are involved will never see past their pocket.

This was a great hope for PWI and despite all the other content which I commend them on their failure the really nerf aps and sins has led me to give this games PvP a fail. To allow a broken mechanic and a broken class (sins) to persist this long indicates one thing. They don't care!

So as I said in a post a very long time ago, "shut up and play". In other words why bother posting about it. Just play your character and do what you can with it. If your caster can't make as much money as a bm/sin, tough!

BurnWhenIWiz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ok, so that's the ovious fix, let's just all roll sins/bm's, spend more coin to the existing APS elites to power lvl them, dump a bucket of coin on it to gear it to 3.33+, and then watch them QQ because we killed their canny/rap economy by having everyone doing 5-10min std nirv runs. Watch them rage quit because they can't find people to buy keys off of to do 1, 2, 3, etc man runs.

Wonder how many of them made coin 'glitching' wraithgate trophy mode, or 'glitching' frost?

Why did nobody come to this conclusion before? Just abandon every other class.

Developers don't like magic user. It obvious. I can clearly seen it for years. Magic users are in PVE very, very limited. No same opportunity for all classes. That's sad.b:angry

sachelfunlol wrote: »

And get a bit more realistic, 300 runs in a week is 17 hours a day of nirvana if you are in a 5min squad. That is none stop not taking acount breaks and trips to the instance. Please stop over exaggerating yourself. You making yourself look like a fool.
300 x 5 = 1500 / 12(one hour of 5min intervals) = 125 (hours) / 7 (days) = 17.85 hours a day

Um... 300 runs at 5 minutes each comes to 25 hours total. Over a week that's about 3.5 hours a day.

The mistake in your "math" is: Minutes/12 does not result in hours, since 1 hour = 60 minutes, not 1 hour = 12 minutes. In fact, 12 is the number of runs/hour, it's a different unit, so you cannot divide by that and expect something sensible.

Karen_Divine - Sanctuary wrote: »

Great idea! But to be honest as a caster I will say this its not the aps that are raging and killing the game its you guys. We all exploited a GLITCH it's within PWE's right to locate and fix the glitch. You're all acting like the QQers when goons were nerfed. Is it fair? No its not. But that's the challenge of the game, if you cant get over it or if you cant accept it and work with aps people/friends at doing regular vana than that's your own issue.

All you ever do is QQ aps are ruining this game QQ, I will bet that all of you bring at LEAST 1 aps toon if not more to each and every one of your BHs so just stop trying to divide the community and just accept it. It doesn't take 5x longer to run a regular vana if its 3 aps and 3 casters (doesn't even take that long with 6 casters), and ya I've seen plenty of people do that, all it takes is friends. So just stop this pointless trolling and flaming and play this game. If you hate it that much look for a better one because this is all just a game, and if you cant enjoy it as it is there's plenty of other choices. Now I'm going to go enjoy my sin and my cleric so all of you have a lovely day.

Your another one only reading what you want to read. This is not about the glitch being fixed. It's about the Talismans. If it wasn't limited like that we wouldn't be complaining about it.

And don't get me started on the goons. The way the devs handle that was really screwed up. The only people who got the hand in the face were the ones who followed the rules and didn't us it.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, was that doing Nirvana with friends does not always work out. Its better yea but it doesn't seem to always go how we plan. That's only about 1-2 runs I can do with them if they are available.

LOL sin and cleric huh? You have no right to judge us. But I can't tell you to shut your mouth but now all it is is useless dribble now to me. Should have read that part first.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um... 300 runs at 5 minutes each comes to 25 hours total. Over a week that's about 3.5 hours a day.

The mistake in your "math" is: Minutes/12 does not result in hours, since 1 hour = 60 minutes, not 1 hour = 12 minutes. In fact, 12 is the number of runs/hour, it's a different unit, so you cannot divide by that and expect something sensible.

Yes sorry about that had a serious brain ****, but yeah so that is feasable then, and sorry to the person I quoted as well, I thought something was funny there b:laugh. Maybe I should stop posting when half awake b:thanks

b:victory

Karen_Divine - Sanctuary wrote: »

Great idea! But to be honest as a caster I will say this its not the aps that are raging and killing the game its you guys. We all exploited a GLITCH it's within PWE's right to locate and fix the glitch. You're all acting like the QQers when goons were nerfed. Is it fair? No its not. But that's the challenge of the game, if you cant get over it or if you cant accept it and work with aps people/friends at doing regular vana than that's your own issue.

All you ever do is QQ aps are ruining this game QQ, I will bet that all of you bring at LEAST 1 aps toon if not more to each and every one of your BHs so just stop trying to divide the community and just accept it. It doesn't take 5x longer to run a regular vana if its 3 aps and 3 casters (doesn't even take that long with 6 casters), and ya I've seen plenty of people do that, all it takes is friends. So just stop this pointless trolling and flaming and play this game. If you hate it that much look for a better one because this is all just a game, and if you cant enjoy it as it is there's plenty of other choices. Now I'm going to go enjoy my sin and my cleric so all of you have a lovely day.

Actually...APS did ruin the game. If you can recall how racist the game became after the TB expansion with the sins. What happened to the olden days where everybody was needed, of course before nirvana. Because of APS, all magic classes were basically excluded from nirvana. Unless of course you have a really good friend who is willing, rare.
How hard was it for a veno to join an FF?
The only casters that were needed in normal nirvs was a cleric, and when people were smart enough to acknowledge the Venos purge/amplify damage.
Even now lol people still dont know about it, it is hard for a veno to join FF.

APS people can run as many nirvanas as they want, but its okay for them to cry about casters gaining more drops? They deserve the drops since APS classes rarely, if not ever take them on any runs at all. If anything it balances out the game. In the time an APS squad can do 2 runs, it is basically 1 caster run, logically thinking, drops are even.
Also regarding having an APS person in the squad, lawl its practically unavoidable, since all servers are flooded with them.
Barbs convert to Claws, people ditching their mains to make chars with APS....why? because now days its one of the very few ways people are accepted.
If this keeps happening, may as well delete all other classes from the PWI database.
Ask a sin how hard it is for them to get into a RB squad just for BH, people are getting divided. Its obvious if people are going to exclude others from certain things, they will obviously get the same medicine where possible.

The goon nerf, people have a right to complain, why in the **** would everyone get punished for something herp derps took advantage of. Only noobs needed to take advantage of a glitch to be successful. And NO we all did not exploit the glitch, only noobs did. Have you ever done any coding before? It isnt that hard to create such a fix for the problem, all they would have required to do is delete the timed if-else statement on which the dragoons get spawned when that boss is activated.

Another point....lawl so obvious. Relate it to rl..
People and Tax, youre paying a **** load of tax for things you dont need or didnt contribute to. I highly doubt you think its fair, especially if its something that effects you.
Regardless, youll have people opposing tax, am I right? Damn straight I am.
inb4: this is a game not rl.
Well the people behind the game are still human, so we act like humans.
Reality, get used to it.

kthxbai

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

You made me LOL really hard

Before the TB expansion there was no Nirvana so ummm no one could do it Sins didn't force the exclusion of casters from it LOL

But yeah pretty much stopped reading your QQ post at that point cause obviously you don't know anything

You make me LoL even harder, when did I say there was nirvana before the TB expansion.
I simply said, how racist the game became after the tb expansion.
Noticed I said before Nirvana, lolderpedit

b:laugh

lvl60togekiss wrote: »

Actually...APS did ruin the game. If you can recall how racist the game became after the TB expansion with the sins. What happened to the olden days where everybody was needed, of course before nirvana.

Oh come on, stop bull****ting yourself.

Before Tideborn, Venomancers were busy soloing the everloving **** out of TTs. Meanwhile, the squads had Barbs, Clerics and "DDs". The DDs amounted to BMs, Wizards and Archers. That's 3 out of 6 classes. 3 out of 6 classes regarded as nothing but means of doing things faster, things not really necessary.

I sure as hell remember not wanting to even go near TT as an Archer because I knew I'd get jack from it because of my non-sufficient level and being a DD.

APS people can run as many nirvanas as they want, but its okay for them to cry about casters gaining more drops? They deserve the drops since APS classes rarely, if not ever take them on any runs at all. If anything it balances out the game. In the time an APS squad can do 2 runs, it is basically 1 caster run, logically thinking, drops are even.
Also regarding having an APS person in the squad, lawl its practically unavoidable, since all servers are flooded with them.

The reason APS classes don't take casters is simple: They're not as good. It's not about the casters being bad, it's about them not being "good enough". I've been to a rather fast Nirvana, where we had 5 people 4-5 aps and a tiger form crapbarb. The barb pretty much only contributed the buffs. It was still fast. Not as fast as if we had included another BM or Sin, though.

Barbs convert to Claws, people ditching their mains to make chars with APS....why? because now days its one of the very few ways people are accepted.
If this keeps happening, may as well delete all other classes from the PWI database.
Ask a sin how hard it is for them to get into a RB squad just for BH, people are getting divided. Its obvious if people are going to exclude others from certain things, they will obviously get the same medicine where possible.

Friend of mine got a 5.0 +10 BM. He then rerolled to clawbarb because he figured the barb buffs were more useful than HF due to the ratio of clawbarb-to-bm.

Personally I have trouble getting to a lot of squads, probably because I tend to not link my weapon when responding to WCs. But the difficulty with Deltas is obvious, since most squads will only want a sin if they got a Seeker as well, for BP.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh come on, stop bull****ting yourself.

Before Tideborn, Venomancers were busy soloing the everloving **** out of TTs. Meanwhile, the squads had Barbs, Clerics and "DDs". The DDs amounted to BMs, Wizards and Archers. That's 3 out of 6 classes. 3 out of 6 classes regarded as nothing but means of doing things faster, things not really necessary.

I sure as hell remember not wanting to even go near TT as an Archer because I knew I'd get jack from it because of my non-sufficient level and being a DD.



The reason APS classes don't take casters is simple: They're not as good. It's not about the casters being bad, it's about them not being "good enough". I've been to a rather fast Nirvana, where we had 5 people 4-5 aps and a tiger form crapbarb. The barb pretty much only contributed the buffs. It was still fast. Not as fast as if we had included another BM or Sin, though.



Friend of mine got a 5.0 +10 BM. He then rerolled to clawbarb because he figured the barb buffs were more useful than HF due to the ratio of clawbarb-to-bm.

Personally I have trouble getting to a lot of squads, probably because I tend to not link my weapon when responding to WCs. But the difficulty with Deltas is obvious, since most squads will only want a sin if they got a Seeker as well, for BP.

Point one. Care to disagree racism in the game is a lot worse now compared to back then? Which is the point I was making in my first post.

Point two. They do not take casters due to effieciency. The only casters they take now, are Venos/Clerics either because they need the purge/amp to make things go faster and cleric for survivability, assuming they even take them anymore, now that sins and bm can duo-4 man etc.
Atleast in our server.

Point three. One of the very few reasons to go a claw barb. Still what I said is a valid point.

Point four. In our server, its a struggle to get a sin into an rb squad, this can either be for efficiency, or the flooding of the class, or even both.

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide wrote: »

You implied that before APS casters were wanted in Nirvana, but in reality before Tideborn very few bms/barbs/archers went high aps it wasn't until they had to compete with sins that people started going APS. Your poor wording implied Nirvana before TB.

Also I do believe posting from more than 1 account in the same thread is bannable. Nice of you to expose yourself.

It is? Show me where it says that at please?

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5415832#post5415832

Wasn't poor wording btw. You said so yourself that you stopped reading after a certain point

That's the same account btw. GG

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

1. Worse or not, it's always been an existing problem. Would kinda hint that the problem is less in the game and more in the people, I think.

2. Of course, the players in this game are ridiculously efficiency oriented. Also, a veno is damn good in a squad: the 20% increase they give, assuming the other 5 DDs are equal, results in the squad getting DD equal to exactly 6 members, with Demon Amp putting that at 6,25 and Sage at a noticeable 6,5. Add Purge with the second boss and it's pure gold.

4. It's probably both. I've certainly experienced the flooding aspect, as I've not made it into various squads looking for DDs. I suspect it's because I do not link my weapon. I also suspect that if they knew I'm a 3.33 Sage with Barrier Thorn: Nirvana, I would have gotten into those squads. Which in turn is exactly why I don't link my weapon.

1. Agree, but its still worse off now.

2. Yeah, and because of this, caster should be made so other classes have a chance of being efficient instead of being reliant on APS classes.

4.I struggle to get into squads also on my sin, unless I make them myself, its extremely rare to have 2 sins in one squad.
In some cases its understandable, in order to be able to do the instance, they need a balanced team, its a bit easier to get into squads than before, since bp is very helpful to a seeker in rb, and they are extremely popular for it.
We dont generally ask for weapon links unless its for one of the higher waves, I just mean for standard wave 2 bh.

This is silly. I didn't complain when they removed CC, you shouldn't complain when they fix other glitches.

And as far as the casters complaining about APS, for more than the first two years of the game ranged classes treated melee classes just as bad, if not worse, when deciding to exclude them from farming and zhenning. At least you have easy access to leveling that didn't exist back then when you'd deny BMs and Barbs at fishies or birdies.