Caster Nirvana Talismans Qq V 2.0

Traz - Dreamweaver

Kairu_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

casters ask for +5 or higher TT99 which a lvl 100 should have. it's probably the weakest weapon you should have at lvl 100. at least that's how it is on sanctuary. were not agaisnt taking +2-3's so long as we keep a veno in squad for purging a boss if it frenzies for dying to slow, or they know what their doing and keep adds down. were not nearly as strict as 4-5.0 squads *basicly asking +8-10 r8 or higher. or r9's for the sin equivalent*. were just asking that they kept their gear up to date, nothing special. and tbh up to +5 refine and aquadash has higher dps then TT99 so that would probably be allowed in too.

theirs a reason our runs take 30-50 minutes is becasue were not overly critical about op gear. and we let any caster in so long as we have atleast 1 cleric, 2 wizzy/psy, and 1 mystic. he'll i've done 5 cleric squads before lol.

edit: your on sanctuary so i dont see how that's possible. it's a fairly rare occason when a TT99 wep person isn't let in.

Last 2x on dreamweaver I saw world chats of people wanting all +10 or higher all the time. Trust me, as I've been saying for the last 2 years, the players are the problem with this game and no matter how they "balance" it you will always come back to that. Casters finally get an instance after saying they have been getting alienated after so long, and then they start alienating other casters just like APS people.....

I've always taken my friends with me on my runs. We do about 7-8 minutes with a rainbow squad with just about every class. We even bring in random people sometimes. We are consistent and we have lots of supporters that are thankful for it. I have a fully +10 /+12 sin that could duo with my wife, but I never do nirvy with less then 5 at any point in time.

Set APS down to 2.86.... APS will add in one cleric or mystic and nothing else will change. The problem is the people of the game, not that game. That's the overall opinion on the matter, but if anyone else has a different one I still respect that fact even if I disagree.

More to the point of the thread, it was a glitch and it got fixed. IF most of you would go about constructively pointing how the fairness of putting no timer on the tailsman and let them stack like normal keys instead of complaining, maybe something constructive would happen. Complaining about it in the manner I've been reading belittles your understanding of why it was fixed and your intellect of being able to come up with positive solutions to inequalities.

Deant - Raging Tide

Removing the aps from demon sparc .. then they need to think about sparcs. maybe we need a completely diferent set of bonuses for demon sparc and sage sparc. Sage sparc with its own buffs for def not the one that is overiden by BB, and demon sparc w/o aps/casing but maybe with a crit(yes crit, it will benefit barbs in agro) buff. anyways if u remove aps boost from demon sparc we need some other buff or its useless.

Zankanto - Sanctuary

Deant - Raging Tide wrote: »

Removing the aps from demon sparc .. then they need to think about sparcs. maybe we need a completely diferent set of bonuses for demon sparc and sage sparc. Sage sparc with its own buffs for def not the one that is overiden by BB, and demon sparc w/o aps/casing but maybe with a crit(yes crit, it will benefit barbs in agro) buff. anyways if u remove aps boost from demon sparc we need some other buff or its useless.

Cyclone Heel. Wind Shield. How do you think Sages get 5.0?

Deant - Raging Tide

Zankanto - Sanctuary wrote: »

Cyclone Heel. Wind Shield. How do you think Sages get 5.0?

dude... u lost my point totaly. cap aps at 3.33, remove aps buff from demon sparc and replace it with some other buff that would be useful. for example crit buff. it will benefit all classes.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Deant - Raging Tide wrote: »

dude... u lost my point totaly. cap aps at 3.33, remove aps buff from demon sparc and replace it with some other buff that would be useful. for example crit buff. it will benefit all classes.

Sage sins that are 2.86 solo 3-3, what's 3.33 going to do?

Zankanto - Sanctuary

Deant - Raging Tide wrote: »

dude... u lost my point totaly. cap aps at 3.33, remove aps buff from demon sparc and replace it with some other buff that would be useful. for example crit buff. it will benefit all classes.

You never said anything about capping APS. You said to remove it from demon spark, which would do very little. Actually, Crits from spark + speed from windshield would be even better.... b:dirty

Traz - Dreamweaver

Zankanto - Sanctuary wrote: »

You never said anything about capping APS. You said to remove it from demon spark, which would do very little. Actually, Crits from spark + speed from windshield would be even better.... b:dirty

That's why my 5.0 demon veno getting 650% instead of %500 from spark is boss. b:dirty

Amour - Lost City

Caster NV was a nice way for casters to farm for themselves, and via the glitch, was the only way reliably farm money with their CASTER character. I would be inclined to agree (if the statements people gave me about it were true) that 1-2man caster nv (Ie 1-2 people controlling 1-2 chars each, with filler chars as well) were very easy to perform with 2 OP chars (ie R9) and the profit was better than that of reg nv. BUT. Simply allow caster nv to be opened via regular keys, but nerf the drops available. Casters should be able to reliably squad eachother and farm togetehr as easily as APS chars can. If the problem was the amount of profit, then lower drop rate a bit and equalize the key distribution -_-.

TheDendra - Harshlands

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Last 2x on dreamweaver I saw world chats of people wanting all +10 or higher all the time. Trust me, as I've been saying for the last 2 years, the players are the problem with this game and no matter how they "balance" it you will always come back to that. Casters finally get an instance after saying they have been getting alienated after so long, and then they start alienating other casters just like APS people.....

I've always taken my friends with me on my runs. We do about 7-8 minutes with a rainbow squad with just about every class. We even bring in random people sometimes. We are consistent and we have lots of supporters that are thankful for it. I have a fully +10 /+12 sin that could duo with my wife, but I never do nirvy with less then 5 at any point in time.

Set APS down to 2.86.... APS will add in one cleric or mystic and nothing else will change. The problem is the people of the game, not that game. That's the overall opinion on the matter, but if anyone else has a different one I still respect that fact even if I disagree.

More to the point of the thread, it was a glitch and it got fixed. IF most of you would go about constructively pointing how the fairness of putting no timer on the tailsman and let them stack like normal keys instead of complaining, maybe something constructive would happen. Complaining about it in the manner I've been reading belittles your understanding of why it was fixed and your intellect of being able to come up with positive solutions to inequalities.

the difference is there is only a handful of picky casters while the vast majority of the runs consisted of ~r8 players and the runs were done at a reasonable pace (25mins). aps nirvanas are impossible for casters since they take us an hour and we get like 800k each on average - nice joke.

Deant - Raging Tide

So basicly casters want an aps 1 for melee chars and free open casters nirvana? and then complain about 5 aps ppl being mean...

Kairu_ - Sanctuary

edit: WARNING LARGE WALL OF TEXT


as for the players ruining the game i agree.

and i myself take TT99's, or fcc golds with a decent refine. *+3-5 being decent* since that's really the minimum. I'm a cleric so theirs tons and tons of runs that I've joined. ya theirs wc this wc that, I experience it weekly, sometimes daily, and during x2 to the point i wanna drop. and how many of those do people ask for +8-10's like 1 in 8. how many let sins go under 4.0 *3.33 if they can't find 4.0's* 8-9/10. trust me their is a difference.

but you do have a point i'll admit that. and it is true as well, but casters are alienated to such a digree that far less of us are picky about our squad being high geared. it's human nature to wanna finish things quickly to become stronger quicker. so naturally we'll try to find higher. but at least on sanctuary most of the squads are extremely lenient with the exception of aps's unelss your in their faction.

and if you read my earlier posts, i even mentioned that yes it's a glitch admittidly it needed to be fixed *albeit it's not the one that shoulda been fixed 1st, and is the 1st in a long line that need done, this one giving pwi more money so it was fixed quicker* and the only unfairness to caster vana is during x2. if vana were just do it when you get your keys, or finish it if you saved up 99 keys. then it wouldnt have any imbalnce in the 1st place, also which I mentioned earlier. as well as, if time to do the run wasn't a factor doing 3-4 casters a day if you decided to would take nearly 2 hours *or more depending on squad* not including bh's needed to get your talismans* caster gets more then aps vana does.

BUT because they saved keys for x2, things like bh lunar, or other long bh's adding to casters already longer time to complete, is a bit overkill to balance out aps's getting 1/2 as much but finishing in 5-10 minutes.

easy balance fix: bh1 gives 1 key OR 1 talisman, and 3 keys OR talismans in raging tide, and you can only use 1 or the other to open nirvana. let talismans stack and give them maby say a 7 day duration. just so that it offsets the long time of caster. add that with metal mage *not much but it adds up* and mystics +20% skill dmg boost which also speed it up. and problem solved. theirs no x2 for casters really but we get twice as manyy drops.

this still makes x2 weeks unfair to casters vs aps's but you gotta realize, they gotta save theirs for months at a time to even be on the same lvl as ours does when it comes to getting coin, we pay the price of no x2 by convience of getting it now. and taking longer.

maby they could put both talismans AND keys on a timer *though less 99 key runs lol, which is what casters could do during x2 if they save up. 99 talisman runs, or to help offset taking so long + saving up, make it like a 50 talisman run lol but that may be overkill*

i could go on and list balancing after balancing, but all in all so long as casters do theirs that day *time consuming as sh*t* the'll be just as much as aps gets in the long run. and if we can get tali's 3 at a time like keys are, and not requrie bh. it significantly cuts down the required time, and gives us something to do other then sit and afk in town, or a break between pk group fights ect.

Kairu_ - Sanctuary

Deant - Raging Tide wrote: »

So basicly casters want an aps 1 for melee chars and free open casters nirvana? and then complain about 5 aps ppl being mean...

just cause i didn't quote you or mention you in the previous post, and it's to damn long to edit so i'll double post

no we dont' wan't free open for casters. we just would like the ability to open it a similar amount to aps's

for example if you took out talismans and required caster vana to take 2 nirvana keys to open instead of 1. it'd be balanced and all good *tbh i think that's a brilliant idea* since caster takes longer but gives twice the drops. make it cost twice the keys, that way it's the same overall drops as normal drop rate instead of far higher, and we can still save up for caster vana on x2. voiala problem solved.

and yes aps's are mostly quite stingy with their nirvana. and anytime we might have a way to keep up they tend to qq, regardless of the reason. but i still like my 2 keys for caster vana and no talismans awnser, it's a perfect balance x2 drops x2 keys, caster instead of aps. still 99 keys for a 99 key run though since it only really adds 1 boss that guarantees a couple raps.

Karen_Divine - Sanctuary

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

You're a tool if you find it normal a melee class can deal 10times more damage than a caster. Bosses getting 2shot, nirvanas with 6bosses done in 5mins...yep, it all sounds pretty normal to me - sarcasm off.

Okay first...this thing made me lol...I know plenty of casters that have hit over 800k a hit on a mob/boss (no they were not r9, the r9 ones hit above 1mil) I doubt highly that an aps anything can hold aggro when you kill a boss in 3-4 shots b:chuckle thats first.

Second a lot of vana runs only req 2.86 as people are building their gear during 2x and as such its not too difficult to find a lower req aps squad the only draw back is you have a cleric and it takes longer. Now as for weapons a lot of casters required high refines and gear, and I will admit it a few times I was tempted to pick someone who pmed me later over the first pm solely based on weapon however as I usually run with r9 psychics and wizards idc what the weapon is. But lets face it if we didnt have the r9s I would req at least +8 for DD.

Also Dendra stop saying a reg vana takes an hr...you're making a fool of yourself. b:surrender Casters were and still are nice. I am still taking barbs archers BMs sins and any class that wants to come to any caster (and still cant take longer than 35min) So here's a balance idea, make alt casters and swap them out I know ppl that have done over 12 caster runs today alone, where there's a will there's a way. So rather than trolling go level those toons you've ignored for so long.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Personally, I think both keys should stack, but 99 keys should be the limit for either. All these alts and abandoned chars running around with thousands of keys is pretty stupid. And this would end the QQ once and for all.


And for god's sake, stop calling it "vana". I imagine some white valley girl saying "hey wanna, like, do vanna?" in an annoying voice whenever I see someone call it that. b:surrender

Kairu_ - Sanctuary

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Personally, I think both keys should stack, but 99 keys should be the limit for either. All these alts and abandoned chars running around with thousands of keys is pretty stupid. And this would end the QQ once and for all.


And for god's sake, stop calling it "vana". I imagine some white valley girl saying "hey wanna, like, do vanna?" in an annoying voice whenever I see someone call it that. b:surrender

lol 99 max isn't a bad idea, stacking is great. but you'd get tons of qq about no stacking multiple 99 key runs together.

and is till say just taking 2 keys instead of 1 talisman + 1 key for caster is a fair trade off. it easily solves all the caster's qq about nirv *better then vana eh lol*, without disrupting either side and keeping it a very good balance.

granted, it doesn't help seekers or archers lol *archers can find normal nirv but not as often as one would like, and seekers can join caster if they have their ele debuff skills lvld*

Deant - Raging Tide

Easy fix, completely change nirvana. at least 3 bosses should be phys imune. can spawn phys mobs and mini bosses. make it a bigger chalange. so u have to take at least 3 casters in nirvana squad. remove caster nirvana. force the teamwork. if nirvana has 1/2 bosses phys imunne there will be no aps only squads.
how about that idea?

Traz - Dreamweaver

Deant - Raging Tide wrote: »

Easy fix, completely change nirvana. at least 3 bosses should be phys imune. can spawn phys mobs and mini bosses. make it a bigger chalange. so u have to take at least 3 casters in nirvana squad. remove caster nirvana. force the teamwork. if nirvana has 1/2 bosses phys imunne there will be no aps only squads.
how about that idea?

OK, the positive contribution to find a solution to the inequality is beautiful, but we need to keep this in mind. To get ONE +12 item with 2 end game shards, we are talking about 1.5 billion coins. The problem with all this crazy talk is the fact that if you severely slow down coin costs of EVERYONE you will make people quit. End game used to be 6 characters in 3-3 and you could get everyone their "end game" gear in about 1 month of moderate game play.

Those days are beyond over with. Now it takes my wife and I hardcore farming 6 hours a day for a few weeks to just get 1 end game weapon. Keep in mind we both have +12 sins with 14k and 16k HP respectively to duo anything we want.... and it still takes that long to acquire 1 "end game" weapon. The ampage of time that developers have put on players to keep up with cashers has been exponential. I find this exponential increase as the route of why this game as been so strained on being time efficient. The time efficient mind set of this game is why people are pushing others outside of "the squad" if you are unable to contribute the most to this goal.

I get most of my coinage from having mass alts for 99 key quests. I use that coin to merchant. I don't do the solo Nirvana / TT stuff much anymore because I don't need to. Keep in mind the amount of time spent by 6 people back in the day to get all their gear done for the whole squad is the same amount of time it would take my wife and I to duo one "end game" weapon....The amazing amount of time or money required to get full Nirvana from TT99 vs what you need to go from scratch to TT99 is as crazy as the ampage of getting from 101 to 105 in experience vs 1 to 101. Anyone sane that looks at it will go wow, there's no way.

I think this truism of how long it realistically takes 1 individual keep up with the cashers is so difficult it really pushes everything out of whack. From that it has really altered the mindset of the player in this game. With everyone's mindset shifting as a result, I don't see any changes other then how long it takes to get end game gears (nerf how many canny / raptures you need for example), will result in any positive changes that will rebalance class equality in this game. The mindset is what pushes people out of squads and altering the instances wont change that perception.

Dariboo - Lost City

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes I did, with a crappy psychic r8 +5 and it was pretty easy.

Now, for the normal nirv, you dont enter it if you're +5, you must be +8 or more and higher than 3.33 aps or GTFO.

I am +5 and survived just fine in regular NV with 2 bms and 3 other sins. Did it just the other day. b:victory

Ftelia - Dreamweaver

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Seriously there are some highly stupid people in PWI. APS classes ran 5minute nirvanas for 2years while us casters had to watch and ask ourselves how the *** are we supposed to make money if our nirvana takes 45mins.

Fast forward, we get caster nirvana and we find a way to do multiple runs - 1 caster nirvana equals 3 normal nirvanas; 1 pro caster nirvana takes 15mins, 3 normal nirvanas take 5min each...

So where is the ****** problem? What happens now is that we are limited to 2-3 caster nirvanas per day while all you mfcking moaning selfish aps spoiled brats get to run 50nirvanas per day if you like!

Talisman limitation is a joke and I hope we'll have some legit&fair way to get more talismans.

b:victory i totally agree! get this game balanced you pwi idiots! b:angry

Aullay - Raging Tide

Before Caster Nirvana, all the magic classes were forced to either create an aps character (which often would end up becoming their main character for convenience reasons), then with Caster, we arcane classes, could forsee the possibility of being able to actually make some money. My main character was a cleric before I went to mystic. Why I gave up on cleric? Oh well, cleric seemed to had reached a deadlock for me. The way I could make money was regular nirvana, but then more and more aps people came along and clerics were considered unnecessary.
What cleric didn't go through some sin/bm asking them for buffs (so they could run nirvana) but not actually got invited to go to nirvana too? With Caster Nirvana, we had the change of starting making money on our own, wizards for instance, they were never seen in Raging Tides, then all of sudden, new ones start to show up and old ones started playing again.
The way I see it, Caster Nirvana, and its glitch, only helped to even out the farming changes of every class (since we in casters invite seekers and archers as well). Many of my friends saved all their talismans for a 2x event, so taking that away just now, it is really upsetting.
One last thing, Caster is pretty much the only way that arcane classes have to do good money, while aps classes can solo FC, go in TT runs, etc. That said, what advantage did we really over aps classes have that is being taken away?

TheDendra - Harshlands

that advantage is called - how come they can make money all of a sudden, aren't we supposed to be the only ones that can make good money -

and all you aps hypocrites don't you even dare start saying how we can solo TT or this or that just as easily, or how we can also enter normal nirvanas - think of it this way, an aps squad can do a dozen nirvanas in a little over an hour, sure enough any class can make the same amount of money by grinding dq for a month.

so your whole thesis on casters having same doors opened is complete bs because the time it takes us to do these things is insane compared to aps classes. devs need to allows us to do multiple caster nirvanas because it's a huuuge advantage for aps classes when they can run 200nirvs in a day and we can run like...2?

and no, you can't say aps classes have limited amount of runs per day because they can only get 4keys per day, that's bs because we all know everybody stacks keys for 2x drops and usually has a thousand keys ready - hell, they make multiple aps characters just to get more keys stacked up.

euphonium1

This game is more and more unbalanced. They worry fixing glitches for caster NV and ignore so many other problems this game has. APS nerf was a joke. This game only thinks about their precious cashshoppers. APS squads still can do their NV without limits. 2x for caster makes almost no difference. I hope new gams to come dont have this problems.

Salari - Raging Tide

I got some free huggies diapers for all the qq'ers

Desdi - Sanctuary

I just stopped reading the posts afters page 15, the thread makes me sick.

Make talis work like the keys and everyone should be happy.

Takeva - Heavens Tear

Love all the APS people invading the thread. b:dirty

You know how many Nirvanas I got to do before caster came out? Probably 2-3 a month if I was lucky to find a faction member or someone to take me. When casters came out no one wanted to really do it because of the time limit placed on the talismans. Why should we have to wait to collect our bh reward in order to make the time on talismans last?

Stop QQing and join a regular Nirvana? Seriously?

OK I tried playing a BM and Sin. They don't appeal to me and I'll probably fail at it some time in the future, so not worth my time. You really want more fail BMs and Sins running around? Because I'd be one of those b:chuckle

Yes, it was a glitch and yes I'm angry about it. Don't care what anyone has to say to that. But I'd be over it if they would just take that stupid timer off and make it stack-able or limit nirvana for everyone. Which limiting for all will be kinda lame but at least it will be fair. We just want to be on equal terms. #Nirvanas a day for everyone with the same drop rate.

I shouldn't be forced to make another class that I know I will most likely fail at. I should be able to work to earn raps and cannies in an instance at an average amount of time it will take a sin; without having to pay that same sin who got to farm all day in Nirvana.

Oh and FYI, I've never asked for any weapon requirement when trying to get a squad together. Most arcane asking to Caster already have TT99 weapon anyway. Rare for me to see a R9 in caster and its nice to have one when they are willing to caster with us non R9 people. Most of the time I keep within my faction and Friendlist.

But unlike some of you APSers out there, 90% of us don't exclude most of the player base because they aren't 4.0+. I've even done casters with seekers and a couple of my friends with archers. Two other classes who sometimes get shunned from regular nirvana.

_Sephirozz_ - Raging Tide

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok guys here we go again... why casters need talismans to run caster nirvy that limits them to no more than 4 daily runs only while melee classes can run regular nirvy as much times as they want? don t you find this unfair? so my dear casters.. lets start QQing about this until someone hear our voices.. pls pls PWI stop **** the caster classes! we just want the chance to run our instance as many times as we want like melee classes can run their nirvana .. b:cry

I'm whit u bro, I think is not fair that mode, now we have limit per day coz tails has expire time, isn't enought giving us 3-4 tails per day while meelee get around 6 keys per day?? (3 daily misterious old guy + 1 for each BHs they deliver) I think they should do something about it, maybe making talis with no expire time or something, they talk about balance.... Idk what balance...... Peace outguns!!

Nyxyo - Harshlands

i am sin rank 9+!2 and i totally subscribe to this ....fix in matter that i think it sux donkey!

finally caster were happy were independent ..they had a way to get a decent coin...in my opinion was best aps fix ever...i don't get it why you need to torment the mages who like the class...who love it and force them once again to make alt sin/bm to farm!

REMOVE THE TIME LIMIT ON TALISMAN!

LividLemur - Dreamweaver

Nyxyo - Harshlands wrote: »

i am sin rank 9+!2 and i totally subscribe to this ....fix in matter that i think it sux donkey!

finally caster were happy were independent ..they had a way to get a decent coin...in my opinion was best aps fix ever...i don't get it why you need to torment the mages who like the class...who love it and force them once again to make alt sin/bm to farm!

REMOVE THE TIME LIMIT ON TALISMAN!

my hero b:thanks

Accalica - Heavens Tear

It made me sick reading the last few pages aswell. It's alright that a glitch gets fixed, but its certainly NOT ok to nerf us this much by implementing a way that makes us even more unable to run them than the 3-4 per day. I literally hate normal nirvana after going back to it, not the instance - but the peoples attitude in it.

I've noticed people losing their talismans at openings now cause someone within the squad lacks something, stands in the wrong spot (no, not standing in the air, this is happening with an actual rally stone in their invo at the time)..etc. It's hard to get those confessions outta ppl before u open and once done, it fails and steals everyones talismans anyway. What do we get after all the trouble of finding ppl with talismans left to run? Not a damn thing.

So yea, out of 4 talismans last night, I succesfully ran 1. The rest failed for no known reason (no glitching tried) and now when I ask people to run with me they say theirs got 'glitched' away, aka the new system steals them with no chance of retrieving ur talisman back. I thought SOLVING glitches was supposed to mean u find an actual way around the problems. Not just diverting them and putting in an obstacle that's clearly not workable ingame. (Meaning, they knew failing it was part of the glitch so they simply made everyone lose their talis if it fails. In one line thinking it may seem a good idea - a quick fix instead of finding the actual problem, but please devs try to see the problems it's causing us when people simply lack rallys and talismans in their invo. Don't make every caster in the squad lose their daily talisman over someone elses stupidity or reasons u cannot even see!)

So once again my fellow mages, it's time to get ur interrigation papers out. To open caster u need to ask for all the links and stand in working positions. If someone with a language barrier or is new to the instance requirements joins, prepare on a given away tali!b:kiss

Also, input. We have a limited amount of caster runners compared to regular nirvana I've noticed. I've never seen a squad search normal nirvana people for over 20minutes in wc. Well, this problem just got bigger as the ones on my server who do run, got limited to join other squads due to no talismans. All these problems are just justifying a change to caster in either drops and stackable talis or a change in the key charge system imo. Otherwise u just managed to transform a very nice instance into a dusty and barely used one, but hey. It's nothing new.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

^I had the same issue the yesterday and lost one of my only two talismans. Why in Pan Gu couldnt they just disable catshop mode in Caster instead of potentially **** over legit openers with their "fix" is beyond me...*facehoof*