Force Stealth Nerf
Comments
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DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »only useful on 1v1 pvp?
lol when any other class besides cash shopers gets ganked they die , except barbs if they can turtle in time.
but sins specially charmed ones can run away n force stealth.
This is irrelevant, when an sin stealth to escape from a battle, it's as if he were died, he couldn't survive if he doesn't shadow escape, and it still being a shame for the sin. So who cares if he die or if he escape, he was defeated anyway!. I wouldn't consider this utility to escape as an OP sign.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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KrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »I agree with you, but I also realize the desire for people to complete things more quickly. This means that 5 aps is going to be picked easily over the tanking ability of a barb. However, if a barb's aggro skills were increased in an attempt to balance out with the max aps of fist wielders, barbs would be used more for the reason that the low-HP dex-based fist wielders wouldn't have to be healed constantly (without sin's BP). As of right now, though, I'll just stay below 85 until we can see what they might do to help barbs with the new expansion.
mmm... you're right, mid-high lvl dungeons take a lot to complete, and if you can deal higher damage and kill monsters faster you will love to do so. Yah, I would ask to developers to improve the agro holding skills for barbs too.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »only useful on 1v1 pvp?
lol when any other class besides cash shopers gets ganked they die , except barbs if they can turtle in time.
but sins specially charmed ones can run away n force stealth.
Lol even without forced stealth as long as there not in combat mode they can still shadow teleport (35 meters) and wind push away and then use normal stealth to escape a mob. force stealth is not the only means a sin has to escape ffs. its just a immediate escape route. u want to nerf shadow tele and normal stealth as well?
they also have tidal protection and focused mind to help dodge the majority of **** thrown at you while you esape. force stealth is only a minor skill that a sin has, if you want to target a skill target a skill that is actually revlevant in making them OP. force stealth is not one of them.0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Last time I checked, pills have a 2min cooldown, Absolute Domain have a 3min cooldown. To say that you can survive a top geared assassin without either genie skills or pills is talking out of your gaping ***. And no, they don't have to wait 90s to attack you, they really just have to wait the 10s or so for your pill or anti-stun buff to expire then come back and kill you because THEY gain a spark for stealthing while ANYONE else lose a spark or pops a pill for putting up anti stun. So on the second go, your target just used a genie skill, used a pill, what the **** ever, while you probably still have your genie energy/pills ready.
this is where you are wrong. a sin can not tripple spark while in stealth. unless you are talking about the lvl 59 skills. but in that case your point is still not very valid because they have inner harmony and a **** ton of other chi gain skills they can use. forced stealth is only one of the many they have. even with out it they can spark whenever the hell they want to.
also force stealth has a pretty long and very distinguishable cast time, making it easy to interupt. and now you have a force stealth on a 90 second cooldown without being in stealth mode.0 -
l33fluffycat wrote: »this is where you are wrong. a sin can not tripple spark while in stealth. unless you are talking about the lvl 59 skills. but in that case your point is still not very valid because they have inner harmony and a **** ton of other chi gain skills they can use. forced stealth is only one of the many they have. even with out it they can spark whenever the hell they want to.
This, if anything, is supporting the argument that sins are OP.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
cant triple but can double spark which still is a nice output dmg when coming out of nowhere.l33fluffycat wrote: »this is where you are wrong. a sin can not tripple spark while in stealth. unless you are talking about the lvl 59 skills. but in that case your point is still not very valid because they have inner harmony and a **** ton of other chi gain skills they can use. forced stealth is only one of the many they have. even with out it they can spark whenever the hell they want to.
or they can triple at 78 high drop off n **** the **** outa everyone[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »cant triple but can double spark which still is a nice output dmg when coming out of nowhere.
or they can triple at 78 high drop off n **** the **** outa everyone
they cant do any kind of spark. single nor double nor tripple. this was nerfed a few months after the expansion i beleive, along with a few other things.0 -
l33fluffycat wrote: »this is where you are wrong. a sin can not tripple spark while in stealth. unless you are talking about the lvl 59 skills. but in that case your point is still not very valid because they have inner harmony and a **** ton of other chi gain skills they can use. forced stealth is only one of the many they have. even with out it they can spark whenever the hell they want to.
also force stealth has a pretty long and very distinguishable cast time, making it easy to interupt. and now you have a force stealth on a 90 second cooldown without being in stealth mode.
This is where you didn't read my post, I didn't say anything about an assassin triple sparking. I said something about being able to wait out an opponent's protective self buffs without your opponent being able to do anything about it and then coming back to attack again. Nobody cares about your 90s cooldown of not being in stealth, you can't possibly lose when your opponent has just used up genie skills or pills AND YOU HAVEN'T unless you are totally outgeared.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »This is where you didn't read my post, I didn't say anything about an assassin triple sparking. I said something about being able to wait out an opponent's self buffs without your opponent being able to do anything about it and then coming back to attack again. Nobody cares about your 90s cooldown of not being in stealth, you can't possibly lose when your opponent has just used up genie skills or pills AND YOU HAVEN'T unless you are totally outgeared.
cant possibly lose? you have no idea on how fragile a sin is do you? show me a sin that can take hits in pvp while dishing them out that is NOT a heavy cash shopper.
a psy will annihilate a sin thats not in stealth and so would any other magic class. they dont need any genie skills or that other apoth bs unless you are fighting against a sin thats 5 aps. which would mean he is a heavy CSer. and even then a psy with soul burn will rip a new hole in his already gaping *******.
try fighting a veno with a nyx in pvp while not being in stealth as a sin or another 5aps BM and see how far it gets you.0 -
l33fluffycat wrote: »they cant do any kind of spark. single nor double nor tripple. this was nerfed a few months after the expansion i beleive, along with a few other things.
you are wrong, they can single or double spark, only triple spark was nerfed[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
l33fluffycat wrote: »also force stealth has a pretty long and very distinguishable cast time, making it easy to interupt. and now you have a force stealth on a 90 second cooldown without being in stealth mode.
Shadow Escape
Mana: 340
Channel: 0.7 second(s)
Cast: 2.8 second(s)
Cooldown: 90.0 second(s)
You can't interrupt cast time, try again. Your channel is less than a second. Have fun trying to get a skill off to "interrupt" in that time frame, when you're already button mashing your pots and apo pots to survive the stealth gank in the first place.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »cant possibly lose? you have no idea on how fragile a sin is do you? show me a sin that can take hits in pvp while dishing them out that is NOT a heavy cash shopper.
a psy will ****ing annihilate a sin thats not in stealth and so would any other magic class.
Do you know what hp and pdef an endgame assassin is capable of? I think I should know wearing the SAME armor and all. What a ****ing joke. There are rank 8 assassins on my server who have NEVER CASH SHOPPED. It's called Nien Beast event, COA, Nirvana, and TT.
What a joke trying to come on here and say the assassin class is bad because the player doesn't cash shop. We're talking about people who have similar gear fighting each other, if your sin can't take hits in PvP, the people he fights are assumed to not be able to take hits in PvP as well.
Do you know what advantages being able to use pills and genies have while your opponent just used his?Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Do you know what hp and pdef an endgame assassin is capable of? I think I should know wearing the SAME armor and all. What a ****ing joke. There are rank 8 assassins on my server who have NEVER CASH SHOPPED. It's called Nien Beast event.
Do you know what advantages being able to use pills and genies have while your opponent just used his?
so you must know how much money rank 8 is and gaining 5 APS WITHOUT the help of the -0.1 interval from fists and claws right? CS or no CS its a **** ton of money for a sin to reach that caliber you are talking about. for a archer is easier and cheaper because they use fists/claws to help them get that 5 aps. you really have no idea, and thinking its the same thing only proves that.
a archer has there range to fall back on. a sin does not have that luxury. also i dont know about you, but i highly doubt some idiot is just going to stand in the same spot while the sin is stealthed. in that senario the opponent has a huge opportunity to escape himself and regain his genie/pill cooldowns. unless you are going to say something like "you cant escape from a sin"0 -
Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »This is irrelevant, when an sin stealth to escape from a battle, it's as if he were died, he couldn't survive if he doesn't shadow escape, and it still being a shame for the sin. So who cares if he die or if he escape, he was defeated anyway!. I wouldn't consider this utility to escape as an OP sign.
This is an amazingly stupid statement. I feel pretty dumb acknowledging it with a reply.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »Do you know what hp and pdef an endgame assassin is capable of? I think I should know wearing the SAME armor and all. What a ****ing joke. There are rank 8 assassins on my server who have NEVER CASH SHOPPED. It's called Nien Beast event, COA, Nirvana, and TT.
dont forget merching o.o[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »so you must know how much money rank 8 is and gaining 5 APS WITHOUT the help of the -0.1 interval from fists and claws right? CS or no CS its a **** ton of money for a sin to reach that caliber you are talking about. for a archer is easier and cheaper because they use fists/claws to help them get that 5 aps. you really have no idea, and thinking its the same thing only proves that.
a archer has there range to fall back on. a sin does not have that luxury. also i dont know about you, but i highly doubt some idiot is just going to stand in the same spot while the sin is stealthed. in that senario the opponent has a huge opportunity to escape himself and regain his genie/pill cooldowns. unless you are going to say something like "you cant escape from a sin"
thats something idont get it
why is cheaper 5.0 for archer when sin also has interval on rank top?
and cv claws are good for sins too , i have seen a few sins who switch to cv claws before demon sparking.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »cant possibly lose? you have no idea on how fragile a sin is do you? show me a sin that can take hits in pvp while dishing them out that is NOT a heavy cash shopper.
a psy will annihilate a sin thats not in stealth and so would any other magic class. they dont need any genie skills or that other apoth bs unless you are fighting against a sin thats 5 aps. which would mean he is a heavy CSer. and even then a psy with soul burn will rip a new hole in his already gaping *******.
try fighting a veno with a nyx in pvp while not being in stealth as a sin or another 5aps BM and see how far it gets you.
I don't understand why you have so much trouble killing other people if you engage people in stealth, ensuring a pre-emptive strike. On top of that, you have a wide aresenal of disruptive skills, including but not limited to stuns and seals. Already, your intial attack often forces the opponent to use up their genies and apoth to survive and prepare a counter attack. You on the other hand, still have all your knick knacks on cooldown. That's already an advantage you have. Not to mention, a long range teleport stun to track down squishy archers and mages.
The pre-emptive strike is your advantage, not your ability to gtfo whenever you want, or force people to use up their survival skill and come back 10 seconds later fully charged to steal candy from a baby.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »I don't understand why you have so much trouble killing other people if you engage people in stealth, ensuring a pre-emptive strike. On top of that, you have a wide aresenal of disruptive skills, including but not limited to stuns and seals. Already, your intial attack often forces the opponent to use up their genies and apoth to survive and prepare a counter attack. You on the other hand, still have all your knick knacks on cooldown. That's already an advantage you have. Not to mention, a long range teleport stun to track down squishy archers and mages.
The pre-emptive strike is your advantage, not your ability to gtfo whenever you want, or force people to use up their survival skill and come back 10 seconds later fully charged to steal candy from a baby.
i know that the first strike is our advantage, i said that in one of the posts i made in this thread. my main beef is people saying its OP when in reality its not. it doest not make sins unbeatable in anyway.
or do i have to remind people of the "veno is OP" fist archrs/fist BMs with 5aps is OP" threads that were made awhile back?0 -
Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »so you must know how much money rank 8 is and gaining 5 APS WITHOUT the help of the -0.1 interval from fists and claws right? CS or no CS its a **** ton of money for a sin to reach that caliber you are talking about. for a archer is easier and cheaper because they use fists/claws to help them get that 5 aps. you really have no idea, and thinking its the same thing only proves that.
a archer has there range to fall back on. a sin does not have that luxury. also i dont know about you, but i highly doubt some idiot is just going to stand in the same spot while the sin is stealthed. in that senario the opponent has a huge opportunity to escape himself and regain his genie/pill cooldowns. unless you are going to say something like "you cant escape from a sin"
How is a 5aps claw archer cheaper than a 5aps claw sin?
Also I would say it is impossible to kite a stealthed sin for 3 mins. Unlike most games, in PWI you can move in stealth at full speed. If a sin is within 35m (the longest range in the game lol) they can stun.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »How is a 5aps claw archer cheaper than a 5aps claw sin?
Also I would say it is impossible to kite a stealthed sin for 3 mins. Unlike most games, in PWI you can move in stealth at full speed. If a sin is within 35m (the longest range in the game lol) they can stun.
really you dont know? look at the atks speed of fists/claws and look at the atk speed of daggers. the difference is 0.1 interval. a sin is going to have to make up that interval by extra means if he intends to use daggers. that means adding more stuff and getting more expensive interval gear.
if you are a BM then your anti stun will make tele stun useless.0 -
really you don't know? What do melee archers use? CLAWS
what can assassins use? CLAWSElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »really you don't know? What do melee archers use? CLAWS
what can melee assassins use? CLAWS
*facepalm*
do i need to bring up a completely different topic about why a sin SHOULD NOT use claws and how stupid it would be? no im not because if you had a sin you would figure that out yourself.
but long story short, a sin using "CLAWS" is no better then a fist BM or a fist archer. they cant use any of the "OP" skills you claim is OP if they use claws.0 -
5.0 is not for PvP. Stop talking out of your ***.Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
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What exactly is your pvp experience? There is no class that can keep up anti stun for 3 minutes.Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »really you dont know? look at the atks speed of fists/claws and look at the atk speed of daggers. the difference is 0.1 interval. a sin is going to have to make up that interval by extra means if he intends to use daggers. that means adding more stuff and getting more expensive interval gear.
if you are a BM then your anti stun will make tele stun useless.
And all 5.0 archer gear is available to sins. This makes 5.0 on both same cost.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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claw sin =
use daggers -> stun -> switch via hotkey to claw -> normal attack and or 3 spark -> back to daggers -> stealth -> ???? -> profit[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »5.0 is not for PvP. Stop talking out of your ***.
amen to that
i lol when someone wastes times quickening by skill or spark just to finish someone instead of using the 3.33 base attack o.o[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »5.0 with claws is not for PvP. Stop talking out of your ***.
so force stealth aside, explain to me what a sin does in pvp that makes them "OP"? because force stealth alone is hardly the cause of it. infact its at the bottom of the list compared to there other skills. but im very interested in what you believe makes a sin OP without taking force stealth into account.DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »claw sin =
use daggers -> stun -> switch via hotkey to claw -> normal attack and or 3 spark -> back to daggers -> stealth -> ???? -> profit
Lol do you have any idea on how much you have lowered your damage output by doing that? im guessing no you dont. but i find it funny how you told someone not to comment on something for being low level when you yourself have no idea how it works. go check up in the sin forum and find out.0 -
I checked your profile. Your sin is not even 7x and you're on a pve server. You have less than 0 pvp experience and are unqualified to discuss end game pvp.
Go away. This isn't the beginner forum.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »so force stealth aside, explain to me what a sin does in pvp that makes them "OP"? because force stealth alone is hardly the cause of it. infact its at the bottom of the list compared to there other skills. but im very interested in what you believe makes a sin OP without taking force stealth into account.
sins are oped 3 reasons
1st force stealth and normal stealth you never see they coming n when they failing they escape away.
2nd they has skills with even more range (even tho sins are supposed to be MELEE) than sage archers (sage mastery has 32 meter range)
3rd bloodpaint which allows them and bms to do stuff like nv or hh with less heals or even none if achieved 5aps
force stealth is the most annoying ever.
lets analize the overpowered stuff from sins :
2nd reason can be counterattacked. because you can see them n know when they gonna ram at you with a 35 meter tele stun skill.
3rd reason is more for pve than anything and only if has 4 or 5aps so doesnt affect pvp
but 1st reason affects pvp majorly. you there fighting a barb u won after lots of pots n genie , sin comes outa nowhere pks u then goes stealth.
how fair is that?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »I checked your profile. Your sin is not even 7x and you're on a pve server. You have less than 0 pvp experience and are unqualified to discuss end game pvp.
Go away. This isn't the beginner forum.
again that is hilarious coming from QQers that do not even own sins.0
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