Force Stealth Nerf

BoozeLover - Dreamweaver

Well I would say that add Channeling (more than 0,7sec...) or make it cost chi instead of granting it, whats a spark here for sin or lengthen CD for 5-10min

personally don't PvP at all and barely ever duel. still that skill made me go WTH when I saw description.

well lets see what new patch/expansion brings with it...

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

you guys SEVERELY underestimate how long 90 seconds is in a SERIOUS pvp setting/environment...

and adding a 5-10min cool down to something thats already insanely long is just lol worthy. the skill will basically be so useless that it mind as well be non existent if that were to happen. stop thinking about petty 1v1 duels and look at the bigger picture. in a serious mass pvp setting force stealth is NOT reliable at all unless u want to be useless and wait in stealth mode for the 90 seconds to cool down just to make a kill.

force stealth is mainly meant to A) help u escape from a tight spot. or if you are on a PK server or in PK mode and want to go on a nice PKing spree. but even in PKing sprees u can just use normal stealth and sneak up on someone, kill them, then wind push away and force stealth only if u have gangs of ppl ready to gang rapee u for being in PK mode/killing there guild mate.

Noskrad - Heavens Tear

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sins can only use force stealth ONCE every 90 seconds. so they can only "escape" from ONE target ONCE every 90 seconds.

wtf is the big deal again?

Quoted for the truth.

I repeat: sin's skills, as they are, gives them an identity, but we're not the best class in game, just have that 1 vs 1 PvP mastery. I see no need to nerf any skill actually.

Anyway, the only idea I would supporf from what I've seen in this forum, as I already sayd in my early posts, is the genie skill to raise awareness lvl, or to add more awareness lvl to the detection potion, what I find fairly hard to get.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

honestly what you are talking about seems to be 1v1 duels which hardly accounts for anything.

First of all- post on your main/ an account I can take seriosly, or your opinion won't matter much at all, not just to me but the majority of people. That's already been stated throughout the thread.

second- this is obvioiusly not duels, it's 1v1 pvp.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Quoted for the truth.

I repeat: sin's skills, as they are, gives them an identity, but we're not the best class in game, just have that 1 vs 1 PvP mastery. I see no need to nerf any skill actually.

Anyway, the only idea I would supporf from what I've seen in this forum, as I already sayd in my early posts, is the genie skill to raise awareness lvl, or to add more awareness lvl to the detection potion, what I find fairly hard to get.

How you can anything say about sin at lv. 66? You don't have even sage/demon skill. So how you can know anything about end game sin? You know nothing about their end game power.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Why would sins bother with "mass pvp" when they have guaranteed kills in 1v1 ganking?
Is 1v1 only for sins now or should other classes not bother with it?

Saying 90s is prohibitively long is moot when the only known stealth defenses (genie skills and apothecary) have a longer cooldown.

Noskrad - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why would sins bother with "mass pvp" when they have guaranteed kills in 1v1 ganking?
Is 1v1 only for sins now or should other classes not bother with it?...

Finally someone who gets my point it seems, yes, no other classes should not bother to try tanking the strongest in game boss, because it's barb's job, right?, anyway it doesn't mean that another classes couldn't tank some bosses too. This same way any other classes could kill a sin in 1 vs 1 battles some times, yah, but sins are made to win almost every 1 vs 1 battle, what's what they are suposed to do, they are overpowered, yes, but on 1 vs 1 PvP only, like barbs are OP on tank, wizz on damage per hit, etc.

As I sayd before, if you want a fair competition in 1 vs 1 PvP agains a sin, use another sin to fight him, like you would use a barbarian to compete on boss tanking against a barbarian, for example.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Good games have balanced 1v1 pvp. Look at great games like smash brothers, street fighter, or starcraft.

Balanced game play accommodates a larger variety of viable play styles which makes the game more fun. In PWI, every one who cares about 1v1 is rerolling a sin. It's been a year and rerolling has been proven to be the best strategy. Being forced to play an op class to be viable is lame.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you guys SEVERELY underestimate how long 90 seconds is in a SERIOUS pvp setting/environment...

And the mighty sage BIDS has 30 sec cooldown. But it probably takes more time to build the chi back. And it's not even guaranteed to crit chances are, it's less than 50%. b:bye

But then again, most wizards can not pull off BIDS/BT/MS without their sleep spell beforehand (in a small group PvP, not TW), which has 2 mins or 120 seconds cooldown.

(I'm commenting on wizard because I'm one, of course, so I'm trying to not make mistakes)

Born_Free - Harshlands

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How you can anything say about sin at lv. 66? You don't have even sage/demon skill. So how you can know anything about end game sin? You know nothing about their end game power.

^
Jesus Nosk, you talking about Sins power is like me talking about a demon psychic going and doing a Seat run. Or about how Psychics can't get into Nirvana parties to save our lives.


But NOTE, how you said BALANCED. There's nothing balanced about me 1 v 1 a sin my level. I can tell you who will loose every time, and I'm not a pure MAG build.
It's one thing to 1v1. It's another thing entirely to have it balanced.

And Sins are not.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

^
Jesus Nosk, you talking about Sins power is like me talking about a demon psychic going and doing a Seat run. Or about how Psychics can't get into Nirvana parties to save our lives.


But NOTE, how you said BALANCED. There's nothing balanced about me 1 v 1 a sin my level. I can tell you who will loose every time, and I'm not a pure MAG build.
It's one thing to 1v1. It's another thing entirely to have it balanced.

And Sins are not.

Pls level up. Then you speak. And don't use hyper stones. After year of leveling when you will know 90% of game you can write something relevant.

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

First of all- post on your main/ an account I can take seriosly, or your opinion won't matter much at all, not just to me but the majority of people. That's already been stated throughout the thread.

second- this is obvioiusly not duels, it's 1v1 pvp.

we gonna play that game? ok... do you even HAVE a sin? if u dont have a sin then u have no idea how it works. and if u have no idea how it works your opinion does not matter just like the many other people in this thread.

if you dont have a sin and dont know how it works you are no better then a sin that is lvl 5 and is just complaining about a sin that is beating u 1v1.

make a sin, lvl it till u get forced stealth, use it often enought in pvp situations, and then comment about it if u seriously want to play that game with me.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Pls level up. Then you speak. And don't use hyper stones. After year of leveling when you will know 90% of game you can write something relevant.

like i told dark, if you dont even have a sin then you have no right to speak as if you know how they work either. you have a lvl 101 elf not a lvl 101 fish. so please, do not play these "lol lvl up before u talk noob" games with people. because there is actually a lot of low lvls that know alot about the game without having to be 10x then alot of the higher lvl players simply from being here longer.

Quilue - Sanctuary

That's not an elf.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

we gonna play that game? ok... do you even HAVE a sin? if u dont have a sin then u have no idea how it works. and if u have no idea how it works your opinion does not matter just like the many other people in this thread.

if you dont have a sin and dont know how it works you are no better then a sin that is lvl 5 and is just complaining about a sin that is beating u 1v1.

make a sin, lvl it till u get forced stealth, use it often enought in pvp situations, and then comment about it if u seriously want to play that game with me.




like i told dark, if you dont even have a sin then you have no right to speak as if you know how they work either. you have a lvl 101 elf not a lvl 101 fish. so please, do not play these "lol lvl up before u talk noob" games with people. because there is actually a lot of low lvls that know alot about the game without having to be 10x then alot of the higher lvl players simply from being here longer.

First and foremost- my nickname, if anything, would be DaK, for Dakillanator...I'm not "darkanator" or something...

second- Mum is a muthafuzuckin wizard, which=human which= you being an idiot

Lastly- I do have a sin, lvl 45 on harshlands. and I'll take an argument from your book- I don't need to be lvl 10X to know that force stealth makes the game unfair. If I EVER decide I'm done with someone in a `1v1 fight, i just press 5 (my hotkey for force stealth) and the fight is over...unless i think the other person let's their guard down, in which case, i pop back out log enough to wtfpwn them.

And yes everyone, i rolled a sin, because I like pk, and they are obviously the best choice for that. I would simply enjoy being able to effectivley pvp on my wiz more if pvp was more balanced. You shouldnt be forced to play a certain class to be effective in 1v1 PvP...

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

female human w/e. its not a fish. my point is that lvl 66 sin has more knowledge about the strengths and weaknesses to there own class then she does since she doesnt even have a sin.

DrunkWizard - Lost City

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

like i told dark, if you dont even have a sin then you have no right to speak as if you know how they work either. you have a lvl 101 elf not a lvl 101 fish. so please, do not play these "lol lvl up before u talk noob" games with people. because there is actually a lot of low lvls that know alot about the game without having to be 10x then alot of the higher lvl players simply from being here longer.

lol since when a wizzie is a elf?

Noskrad - Heavens Tear

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

we gonna play that game? ok... do you even HAVE a sin? if u dont have a sin then u have no idea how it works. and if u have no idea how it works your opinion does not matter just like the many other people in this thread.

if you dont have a sin and dont know how it works you are no better then a sin that is lvl 5 and is just complaining about a sin that is beating u 1v1.

make a sin, lvl it till u get forced stealth, use it often enought in pvp situations, and then comment about it if u seriously want to play that game with me.




like i told dark, if you dont even have a sin then you have no right to speak as if you know how they work either. you have a lvl 101 elf not a lvl 101 fish. so please, do not play these "lol lvl up before u talk noob" games with people. because there is actually a lot of low lvls that know alot about the game without having to be 10x then alot of the higher lvl players simply from being here longer.

Just ignore them as I do, Tsubakey. Don't worth the pain.

DrunkWizard - Lost City

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

female BM w/e. its not a fish. my point is that lvl 66 sin has more knowledge about the strengths and weaknesses to there own class then she does since she doesnt even have a sin.

nor is a bm , is A WIZARD FOR GOD SAKE.

you the lamest troll i ever seen , cant even distinguish classes. -.-

Quilue - Sanctuary

That's not a BM either.

Noskrad - Heavens Tear

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Good games have balanced 1v1 pvp. Look at great games like smash brothers, street fighter, or starcraft.

Balanced game play accommodates a larger variety of viable play styles which makes the game more fun. In PWI, every one who cares about 1v1 is rerolling a sin. It's been a year and rerolling has been proven to be the best strategy. Being forced to play an op class to be viable is lame.

I believe you can't compare PWI with those games like street fighter, those are for 1 vs 1 pvp only!, if thei're not totaly balanced for PvP they would be an epic fail, cuz you have nothing elese to do there, but PvPing.

But PWI is a lot different, and yah, you have to reroll a sin to be good at 1 vs 1 PvP, as you would have to reroll a barb if you wanna be good tanker, for example.

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

First and foremost- my nickname, if anything, would be DaK, for Dakillanator...I'm not "darkanator" or something...

second- Mum is a muthafuzuckin wizard, which=human which= you being an idiot

Lastly- I do have a sin, lvl 45 on harshlands. and I'll take an argument from your book- I don't need to be lvl 10X to know that force stealth makes the game unfair. If I EVER decide I'm done with someone in a `1v1 fight, i just press 5 (my hotkey for force stealth) and the fight is over...unless i think the other person let's their guard down, in which case, i pop back out log enough to wtfpwn them.

And yes everyone, i rolled a sin, because I like pk, and they are obviously the best choice for that. I would simply enjoy being able to effectivley pvp on my wiz more if pvp was more balanced. You shouldnt be forced to play a certain class to be effective in 1v1 PvP...

dont care what the hell it is, it wasnt my point and if you failed to see my point then i am sorry.


if you couldnt kill them the 2nd time you will run away and not atk them for 90 seconds and think you will be able to kill them on your 2nd attempt? LOL!

first off bud if you couldnt kill them the first time you are done period. dont even try a 2nd time. the fight is not over if you failed miserably to kill someone. and once you are in stealth i know you will be no threat for that 90 seconds. 2ndly, i have no idea whats in your head to think that waiting 90 seconds for a "2nd chance" will put u in any kind of advantage. they know your there, they know u FAILED to kill them the first time and they know u will fail a 2nd time. at which point you will just be laughed at.


yes you are right, sins are EXCELLENT at pvp. but force stealth is NOT tthe only thing that makes them good. force stealth is merely a tool in order to escape or grant you the first hit. thats all it is. saying the skill alone is OP is just a pure joke.


btw, nice way to avoid the argument i put out for you. you still have not explained how you beleiving not atking someone for 90 seconds puts you at a bigger advantage if you failed to kill them the first time.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I believe you can't compare PWI with those games like street fighter, those are for 1 vs 1 pvp only!, if thei're not totaly balanced for PvP they would be an epic fail, cuz you have nothing elese to do there, but PvPing.

But PWI is a lot different, and yah, you have to reroll a sin to be good at 1 vs 1 PvP, as you would have to reroll a barb if you wanna be good tanker, for example.

That's news to me. An archer just melee tanked Harpy Wraith with 1 cleric healing the archer last week. Pretty sure an assassin can do the same since they wear the same armor, have Blood Paint, and a non-fail evasion that works on spells.

As far as PvE is concerned, Assassins are on the top. A 5.0 assassin's DPS is pretty much double that of any other 5.0 user of similar refines.

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver

Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I believe you can't compare PWI with those games like street fighter, those are for 1 vs 1 pvp only!, if thei're not totaly balanced for PvP they would be an epic fail, cuz you have nothing elese to do there, but PvPing.

But PWI is a lot different, and yah, you have to reroll a sin to be good at 1 vs 1 PvP, as you would have to reroll a barb (if only this were true...now you have to roll a class with 5 aps to even HOPE to hold aggro = main duty of tank) if you wanna be good tanker, for example.

I rolled my barb when barbs were hard to find because they COULD tank. Those were the days when barbs complained about their high repair costs. I plan to go Sage even though it's not the popular choice after 90. Who knows, maybe they will attempt to make the barb's aggro skills stronger.

DrunkWizard - Lost City

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

dont care what the hell it is, it wasnt my point and if you failed to see my point then i am sorry.


if you couldnt kill them the 2nd time you will run away and not atk them for 90 seconds and think you will be able to kill them on your 2nd attempt? LOL!

first off bud if you couldnt kill them the first time you are done period. dont even try a 2nd time. the fight is not over if you failed miserably to kill someone. and once you are in stealth i know you will be no threat for that 90 seconds. 2ndly, i have no idea whats in your head to think that waiting 90 seconds for a "2nd chance" will put u in any kind of advantage. they know your there, they know u FAILED to kill them the first time and they know u will fail a 2nd time. at which point you will just be laughed at.


yes you are right, sins are EXCELLENT at pvp. but force stealth is NOT tthe only thing that makes them good. force stealth is merely a tool in order to escape or grant you the first hit. thats all it is. saying the skill alone is OP is just a pure joke.

a sin will attack fail , force stealth wait 80-85seconds , spawn kill , stealth again period.

force stealth 90sec cooldown , apot pots 120 sec cooldown.

edit : oh and forgot DOMAIN IS 3 MINUTES COOLDOWN. so yeah waiting in stealth til force stealth is almost out of cooldown makes 2nd try bigger chance of succesful

Noskrad - Heavens Tear

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I rolled my barb when barbs were hard to find because they COULD tank. Those were the days when barbs complained about their high repair costs. I plan to go Sage even though it's not the popular choice after 90. Who knows, maybe they will attempt to make the barb's aggro skills stronger.

This is another topic, here DDs have to learn control their damage (by using weaker weapons, white voodoo, slow down attack rate, etc.) to avoid stealing agro from barbs when fighting a boss. At least that's what I do when I fight a boss, and I never had problems. So I think that's not a barbarian's problem, but DDs problem, specialy fists demon BMs and assassins.

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear

DrunkWizard - Lost City wrote: »

a sin will attack fail , force stealth wait 80-85seconds , spawn kill , stealth again period.

force stealth 90sec cooldown , apot pots 120 sec cooldown.

and in your head you believe that is OP? like i said, that is only useful in 1v1 situations or if you are going on a PKing spree. for everything else force stealth is pretty meh. why nerf a skill that is only really useful in 1v1 pvp? nerfing it will make it pretty much unusable in pve and other aspects of pvp.

you really have never used force stealth at all before. if you use it and the atk fails u have to wait another 90 seconds to use it. once cooldown is done and you fail AGAIN on your 2nd atk you have to wait ANOTHER 90 seconds. the skill does not give you an significant advantage. at best its just simply annoying.

Noskrad - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's news to me. An archer just melee tanked Harpy Wraith with 1 cleric healing the archer last week. Pretty sure an assassin can do the same since they wear the same armor, have Blood Paint, and a non-fail evasion that works on spells.

As far as PvE is concerned, Assassins are on the top. A 5.0 assassin's DPS is pretty much double that of any other 5.0 user of similar refines.

I couldn't say anything for sure there, cuz I didn't fight EVERY boss existing in game, but I'm sure that there are many bosses which can be tanked by barbarians only. Anyway barbs will always be better than any other class on tanking, like every other class will be better on whatever it's speciality is.

I'm not saying that other classes can't tank bosses, or do anything elese, of course they can, but other classes do can kill a sin in 1 vs 1 battle as well, and it did hapened many times.

DrunkWizard - Lost City

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and in your head you believe that is OP? like i said, that is only useful in 1v1 situations or if you are going on a PKing spree. for everything else force stealth is pretty meh. why nerf a skill that is only really useful in 1v1 pvp? nerfing it will make it pretty much unusable in pve and other aspects of pvp.

only useful on 1v1 pvp?

lol when any other class besides cash shopers gets ganked they die , except barbs if they can turtle in time.

but sins specially charmed ones can run away n force stealth.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Tsubakey - Heavens Tear wrote: »

dont care what the hell it is, it wasnt my point and if you failed to see my point then i am sorry.


if you couldnt kill them the 2nd time you will run away and not atk them for 90 seconds and think you will be able to kill them on your 2nd attempt? LOL!

first off bud if you couldnt kill them the first time you are done period. dont even try a 2nd time. the fight is not over if you failed miserably to kill someone. and once you are in stealth i know you will be no threat for that 90 seconds. 2ndly, i have no idea whats in your head to think that waiting 90 seconds for a "2nd chance" will put u in any kind of advantage. they know your there, they know u FAILED to kill them the first time and they know u will fail a 2nd time. at which point you will just be laughed at.


yes you are right, sins are EXCELLENT at pvp. but force stealth is NOT tthe only thing that makes them good. force stealth is merely a tool in order to escape or grant you the first hit. thats all it is. saying the skill alone is OP is just a pure joke.


btw, nice way to avoid the argument i put out for you. you still have not explained how you beleiving not atking someone for 90 seconds puts you at a bigger advantage if you failed to kill them the first time.

Last time I checked, pills have a 2min cooldown, Absolute Domain have a 3min cooldown. To say that you can survive a top geared assassin without either genie skills or pills is talking out of your gaping ***. And no, they don't have to wait 90s to attack you, they really just have to wait the 10s or so for your pill or anti-stun buff to expire then come back and kill you because THEY gain a spark for stealthing while ANYONE else lose a spark or pops a pill for putting up anti stun. So on the second go, your target just used a genie skill, used a pill, what the **** ever, while you probably still have your genie energy/pills ready.

KrittyCat - Dreamweaver

Noskrad - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is another topic, here DDs have to learn control their damage (by using weaker weapons, white voodoo, slow down attack rate, etc.) to avoid stealing agro from barbs when fighting a boss. At least that's what I do when I fight a boss, and I never had problems. So I think that's not a barbarian's problem, but DDs problem, specialy fists demon BMs and assassins.

I agree with you, but I also realize the desire for people to complete things more quickly. This means that 5 aps is going to be picked easily over the tanking ability of a barb. However, if a barb's aggro skills were increased in an attempt to balance out with the max aps of fist wielders, barbs would be used more for the reason that the low-HP dex-based fist wielders wouldn't have to be healed constantly (without sin's BP). As of right now, though, I'll just stay below 85 until we can see what they might do to help barbs with the new expansion.