double aggression on Flesh Ream /barb skills
Comments
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i consider it a challenge to hold agro, but yes i have to agree with the interval out there its imposible, an assasin with minimal interval 90 gold arm -.1 rank 4 chest -.05 TT 80 -.05 and demon spark can steal agro from me, if u toss in an hf i stand no chance same for a 95+ fist bm with lunar claws+ 90 gold arm, so i do agree our agro skills need to be upgraded0
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SilentGodai - Lost City wrote: »It would be nice if tank does get more threat from flesh realm. But whats wrong with fist barb full interval or bm with bloodpaint for tanking.
umm dude fist barbs are nice but, it takes away from teh class first fist bm? then fist archer? every thing is going interval they need to fix this ive even heard of a fist veno >.>0 -
Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »2) Recognise that noob DDs are as much as a problem as low-aggro skills are because they don't even try to curb their damage in the first place.
The whole concept of "curbing their damage" is insulting to a large number of n00b DDs.
"I'm here to kill it! Just because you FAIL at aggro isn't *my* fault!"
RedMenace
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\\\wear that Pork Chop Necklace in Good HealthA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
Robert A. Heinlein0 -
Redmenace - Heavens Tear wrote: »The whole concept of "curbing their damage" is insulting to a large number of n00b DDs.
"I'm here to kill it! Just because you FAIL at aggro isn't *my* fault!"
Point taken.
This doesn't change the fact that these people are also part of the problem, particularly the few who are able to throw thousands onto the game and cash shop themselves into the high level +10 gears and stacked -interval.
Even fixing the aggro for barbarians wouldn't stop all the steals, particularly when we consider how the game is now and just how many players do have access to the good gear regardless of whether they know that sometimes, they need to ease off the damage a little.
[Then again, I suppose these are also the people everybody can let die repeatedly if they insist on making aggro their own...][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Fist barbs can't go into tiger form. So they lose half of their hp bonus, and nearly all of their pdef and aggro bonuses. That's on top of the hp the barb will lose shifting points from vit into dex to use the fist weapon. At that point you may as well just have the BM tank since he'll have access to all his skills and get the barb hp buff.SilentGodai - Lost City wrote: »But whats wrong with fist barb full interval or bm with bloodpaint for tanking.
If you're suggesting that barbs be allowed to go into tiger form and use skills with fist weapons, yes I suppose that'd be one way to solve the problem. Although it runs counter to the general consensus that -interval needs to be nerfed greatly.0 -
working it Q_Q
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Sirsmokealot - Raging Tide wrote: »I do faction runs when it comes to TT and have done it sevrel times with other barbs I would go with 5 barbs and a cleric I play for fun and experiance trying not to become money hungry as IMO thats a downwards spiral.
well, we arent talking about faction runs or runs with few friends for fun (actually i do those more often than strict money runs)
but u have to get coins to play this game. u cant just refuse because it is 'downwards spiral'.
so u will usually try to get DDs in squad instead of 5 barbs..
BTW to make things bit mroe clear
it s not like all barbs on 100 have to reset to claw or quit. They will still get squads to do things - but not those best ones. And thats big kick for ego.
Before end game, barbs were most important squad members. If u were good and had decent gear you could get invs to best squads, make good money and take pleasure from playing with best players.
at endgame, those best squads dont need barbs anymore and that must be frustrating i guess =PBUILD EFFICIENCY CALCULATOR: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1129681
AGGRO MECHANICS: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=481682
GAME IS DEAD wiki-article: pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=9382820 -
even before all the super gear came out, it was pretty easy to take aggro from a barb, especially with archers. People need to learn control and not triple spark, zero chan pot and fire off as many shots as possible b:chuckle0
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Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »no.
if you do this, barbs would have to tank in true form which is away from what it is now
the ideal end game tank have to tank with stacked interval fist or claw and making flesh ream 2 times as effective would be promoting the wrong idea ie you have to stay in true form and tank while dealing less damage(as a sage and beacuse all the time used in spamming fleshream would be better spent in fisting the boss to death)
so a big no from me.
Wow, I never have problems in killing as tiger form. Besides, I always skill spam, which helps me keep aggro. I always stay in tiger form. No one complained how "slow" I kill before, not now either, infact I dish more damage with tiger form mix than human form alone. Tiger form also helps barbs and other people kill faster thanks to devour. I think you forgot about that.
Your also forgetting that tiger form allows less need for heals. Frighten, devour, spark burst, invoke.
On topic: flesh ream is fine as it is. other aggro skills (don't forget stream strike) need beefed up while dps and dph should be nerfed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
I accidentally did that and don't know how X_XAiryll - Dreamweaver wrote: »The main point is a damage dealer needs to learn how to deal the optimum amount of damage without grabbing aggro. This can take a lot of effort to actually master, particularly when you consider the skill level that varies from barb to barb, and while one barb will be able to let you get away with a lot more, another of the same level may not.0 -
I have no idea why barbs have trouble controlling aggro, I can't control aggro as other classes besides BM b:laugh. Sins and psys might be a problem... but doesn't matter to me if they all go all out. I spam skills whichs helps me take and maintain aggro just fine
On top of that, archers doing better dps from normal attacks is false, an archer level 80+ never stole aggro from me when he was using normal attacks. But when he used some skills I lost aggro from him and I took it back[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have no idea why barbs have trouble controlling aggro, I can't control aggro as other classes besides BM b:laugh. Sins and psys might be a problem... but doesn't matter to me if they all go all out. I spam skills whichs helps me take and maintain aggro just fine
On top of that, archers doing better dps from normal attacks is false, an archer level 80+ never stole aggro from me when he was using normal attacks. But when he used some skills I lost aggro from him and I took it back
Maybe because you're not high level enough to experience 5.0 aps interval classes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Fist barbs can't go into tiger form. So they lose half of their hp bonus, and nearly all of their pdef and aggro bonuses. That's on top of the hp the barb will lose shifting points from vit into dex to use the fist weapon. At that point you may as well just have the BM tank since he'll have access to all his skills and get the barb hp buff.
If you're suggesting that barbs be allowed to go into tiger form and use skills with fist weapons, yes I suppose that'd be one way to solve the problem. Although it runs counter to the general consensus that -interval needs to be nerfed greatly.
^^This I 100% agree.0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »On top of that, archers doing better dps from normal attacks is false, an archer level 80+ never stole aggro from me when he was using normal attacks. But when he used some skills I lost aggro from him and I took it back
Maybe because said archer was using a crossbow, like most level 80 archers. That's like using an axe BM as a reference and saying BMs generate more dps with skills than with normal attacks.
Give them a Winds and Clouds, and they'll be do more DPS with normal attacks than with skills.0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have no idea why barbs have trouble controlling aggro, I can't control aggro as other classes besides BM b:laugh. Sins and psys might be a problem... but doesn't matter to me if they all go all out. I spam skills whichs helps me take and maintain aggro just fine
On top of that, archers doing better dps from normal attacks is false, an archer level 80+ never stole aggro from me when he was using normal attacks. But when he used some skills I lost aggro from him and I took it back
You should actually play the game more because it's obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
There isn't a single barb that can steal aggro from me after a full triple... roar, flesh ream, alpha male are useless... Archers? Hell Quickshot proc + normal attack or triple spark + normal attack = highest DPS an archer can get without going fists/claws.
Instead of talking like you actually know something, level a char up to 10x and see what the game is like... commenting on 3x-6x skills really has no bearing on this discussion... the servers here are nearly 2 years old. Perhaps it would be better if you quietly read what people who actually play instead of trolling with inaccuracies and misinformation.
b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Maybe because you can't even get past level 60?Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »I have no idea why barbs have trouble controlling aggro, I can't control aggro as other classes besides BM b:laugh. Sins and psys might be a problem... but doesn't matter to me if they all go all out. I spam skills whichs helps me take and maintain aggro just fine
On top of that, archers doing better dps from normal attacks is false, an archer level 80+ never stole aggro from me when he was using normal attacks. But when he used some skills I lost aggro from him and I took it back
Other barbs can't hold aggro from me and I've only got 2.5 sparked lol.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »On top of that, archers doing better dps from normal attacks is false, an archer level 80+ never stole aggro from me when he was using normal attacks. But when he used some skills I lost aggro from him and I took it back
I can't wait until you get a bunch of archers coming on here throwing all the math that they've already done at you proving that, at end game, the best DPS an archer can manage is with their normal attack, particularly when they spark.
Better yet, if no spark is available, demon stunning arrow/STA -> demon Quickshot = higher DPS then they could ever manage spamming skills.
If you don't know what you're talking about, Yulk, you really better not talk at all. Because the math for archers, particularly the high level ones, has already been done, and there's a reason archers are on auto-attack more then they sit around and spam skills when they deal damage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »You should actually play the game more because it's obvious you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
There isn't a single barb that can steal aggro from me after a full triple... roar, flesh ream, alpha male are useless... Archers? Hell Quickshot proc + normal attack or triple spark + normal attack = highest DPS an archer can get without going fists/claws.
Instead of talking like you actually know something, level a char up to 10x and see what the game is like... commenting on 3x-6x skills really has no bearing on this discussion... the servers here are nearly 2 years old. Perhaps it would be better if you quietly read what people who actually play instead of trolling with inaccuracies and misinformation.
b:bye
Yeah, thats funny, I wish I could use a cam and a good internet connection to show it in proof instead of screen shot. Again, I have no problems with even level 20+ levels above me. I have squad with a level 100 BM before, I kept losing aggro from the 5 aps as a level 55 but I kept stealing it from flesh ream. + I'll level up more when I feel like it. b:cute[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yeah, thats funny, I wish I could use a cam and a good internet connection to show it in proof instead of screen shot. Again, I have no problems with even level 20+ levels above me. I have squad with a level 100 BM before, I kept losing aggro from the 5 aps as a level 55 but I kept stealing it from flesh ream. + I'll level up more when I feel like it. b:cute
BS. Or everyone who parties with you are absolutely horrible players, which I wouldn't discount. A level 55 barb can't hold aggro from me even if I'm using axes. Sorry, you're clueless, at least stop making up stories. b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Aggro is just weak in general at 100+ when Barbs are tanking with Flesh Ream and such.
Even I can steal aggro with my +5 GXs from Barbs. <___<
5.0 aps is unbeatable in terms of aggro for sure though...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »Tiger form also helps barbs and other people kill faster thanks to devour. I think you forgot about that.
Your also forgetting that tiger form allows less need for heals. Frighten, devour, spark burst, invoke.
If you can kill the boss in like 1/5 the time, you'll need less heals too
And guys, this has turned into a "I can steal aggro from barbs my own level so imma brag here" thread -.-Danikovich - Heavens Tear wrote: »And so forcing every Barb to go Claw when it was never intended to? Talk about Balance GENIUS!
The fact that -int gears are imbalanced is recognized by the fact that archers, barbs, venos and even sins use fists for dps. It is natural to use what is imbalanced to level the playing field though. And its not forcing, you have a choice of making another bm alt to farm your gears or restat into fist.
And even rawrgh recognized it, or he wouldnt be 2.5aps sparked. SO what if you increase aggro from aggro skills? Will they revert back to their tanky forms and gladly absorb the repair fee for the team? Or will other squads jsut keep looking for DD and skip all the tank barbs? I hear more of trio this or duo that lately. And there is no place for a tank barb in a trio this and duo that. Think about it, even if aggro is increased, there is no guarantee that people are going to use tank barbs more simply because a 5aps BM can tank and dish out tons more damage in the process. Its like wizards in TT. Who wants them in TT? (unless its a faction/friendly run)Thanks Chillum for the nice Sig.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
No. Let assassins tank. That's the logical and true way to solve the tank problem.I don't care how old or young you are, how small your **** is, how much of a nerd irl you are or how depressed you are that you never will get laid. There is no reason to act like an A-hole to everyone on an mmorpg. Its a shame that I have to take time out of my day to tell people "stop being an A-hole". So I end with this, if your acting like an A-hole, and some one tells you your being an A-hole chances are your being an A-hole.0
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Alls I know is from reading this thread I am really gratefull of the freinds I do have that dont discriminate a class for its weakness but works together to get the objective done.
If I was in a squad and someone refused to take someone because of there class I would not be running with that squad that class has worked hard to be where it is and I do not wish to reroll as a BM I chose the barbarian as it suited my playing style I am not a multi char person never have been like to focus my efforts in to one char.
See how the server looks when you see only fist weapon users with crazy interval around I guess then at least it will be balanced.
The biggest hint in a barb not supposed to be using fists is the fact we can not use skills with them ... That should be one hell of a battle clicking the mob once and occasinaly medding and sparking I dont know how I could handle all that excitment02/07/2011 - Lost paitence with PWI sold all my gear bought packs and wasted my coin till it was gone... goodbye PWI b:bye0 -
4.0+ is impossible for me to take aggro back from period. I have no way even resetting with alpha male, roar, or anything else you can think of me doing. This game was not designed for people to be hitting that fast, or our main aggro skill wouldn't max at level.......54 *face palm*.
If people want to put 1000s of dollars in the game and have +10 and steal aggro they better be ready to survive as well as mass damage output. For them I say, that's your problem not mine.
To anyone that says switch my barb to fist/claws efffff offffffff I played a barb to be a barb not a fuzzy BM. JUST BECAUSE -int makes it impossible for me to tank, doesn't mean I should change, it means the game is severely unbalanced. I have no reason to restat and choose a weapon THAT'S NOT MY NATURAL ONE just so I can be included end-game. The game is broken for barbs and it needs to be fixed. This is definitely the easiest way to fix the main problem of aggro but the root of the problem still exists, why take a barb end game when others can tank + mass DD?BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
I Totally Agree with this.. BARBARIANS are supposed to Tank not DD's .. THusly Barbarians are supposed to keep agro one way RIGHT? .. ALso Barbs are not supposed to be DD's OR Hold agro by Hitting Hard like a DD would.. SO if you dont make the '''''''Agroing''''' Skills stonger thEN Barbs are Useless .. A DD shouldnt be AFraid to Actually DD AND HIT HARD AS HELL ........ expecting that IS actually ****... WHY in hell would one DD work his **** off for super gears and weapons so that he can Input more Damage IF .. when he is supposed to do it.. he get's told.. dont hit so hard cuz I will lose agro ..coming from a Barb that's a Line that should never be Writen .. it'S BS!! .. Make AGroing skills STronger..0
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Tried that many times, squad wipe each time.Archers_Soul - Lost City wrote: »No. Let assassins tank. That's the logical and true way to solve the tank problem.
So no.0 -
If someone wants aggro so bad, let them have it. Then when they die take it back before the cleric gets it.b:laugh
Alternatively, get Expel on your genie, when you see the BM demon spark, hit him with it.0 -
Yes, they should be updated...in fact this whole -int thing is a huge mess in term of game balance, and throws the idea of unique classes completely out the window.
I would say make it so that flesh ream would draw enemy aggro for a minimum time period of 4 seconds, unless overwritten by another such aggro skill. That way spamming it will insure a barb will hold aggro.
Do similar things with other aggro skills as well.
Fists/Claws/swords/spears should just be made bm class specific weapons, and the maximum attack speed should be capped lower than it is, and different for various weapons. Like 4 attacks per second with fists, 3.33 attacks per second with daggers, etc.
I would also suggest throwing a 30 second cooldown on spark eruptions, that way perma sparking is also impossible.
Doing the above would still allow -int gear to be effective, while fixing many undeniable problems in the game/undesirable side effects and abuse people can use the currently unrestrictive game dynamics to accomplish.
Just my thoughts anyway on possible solutions....these kind of fixes cant be rocket science to implement....0 -
RRARRRRGGHHH - Sanctuary wrote: »Yes, they should be updated...in fact this whole -int thing is a huge mess in term of game balance, and throws the idea of unique classes completely out the window.
I would say make it so that flesh ream would draw enemy aggro for a minimum time period of 4 seconds, unless overwritten by another such aggro skill. That way spamming it will insure a barb will hold aggro.
Do similar things with other aggro skills as well.
Fists/Claws/swords/spears should just be made bm class specific weapons, and the maximum attack speed should be capped lower than it is, and different for various weapons. Like 4 attacks per second with fists, 3.33 attacks per second with daggers, etc.
I would also suggest throwing a 30 second cooldown on spark eruptions, that way perma sparking is also impossible.
Doing the above would still allow -int gear to be effective, while fixing many undeniable problems in the game/undesirable side effects and abuse people can use the currently unrestrictive game dynamics to accomplish.
Just my thoughts anyway on possible solutions....these kind of fixes cant be rocket science to implement....
As a business and game developer you never "nerf" such a major factor in a game you "boost" other parts of the game to catch up. This gets rid of making others mad at losing the things they farmed and worked hard to save up and buy, but makes the other classes happy because they gained to re-balance the game.
This philosophy applies for aggro, but the main problem is just how far ahead -int users get ahead of their classes and others. Archers should be archers, barbs should be barbs, and so down the line. All I see is everyone getting the same -int stuff to use claws because it surpasses making their class "better" then it's natural build or gear. This game is so broken it really hurts it in the end.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Ok, I'm going to reply 'cause there's something that has been bothering me.
People are calling others selfish for not wanting to use their time efficiently? |:
Come on, I have friends that are barbarians, if they need help doing an instance. Sure.
But if I'm doing mine I'm more likely to gather up a few BMs a cleric and go do the dungeon in a few minutes. That's not selfish, that's just the most time-efficient way.
Isn't it selfish that a single person would want to slow down a whole squad by having him potentially reduce the squad's damage output by ~20%?
When it comes down to it, the people who say they chose barbarian to TANK like they're supposed to do. Get in to a TW guild, be a cata barb. No one will be able to replace you with that (...yet).
But hell, if you complain about not getting in to instances or w/e re-roll another class and farm on that one.
Don't BS yourself that it's hard to level either. I'm just saying, I do agree that barbs should be able to hold aggro no matter what. But the amount of useless complaining rather than constructive ideas in this topic is ridiculous.
The game is the way it is, for now.
But to be honest, when it comes down to it. If I'm doing an instance and I have a BM in the squad that has gear/refines that can tank the instance while at the same out do a tremendous amount of damage. I will take him over a barb any day, call it selfish. But there is no way I would be willing to go slower/decrease the whole squad's profit margin just so the barb won't feel "discriminated"
I'm sorry, selfish or not. But that's just how the game is.
Now if it's a friend, that's a different story. But when it comes to random people playing a barb. I still stand by what I said.
Edit:
Oh yeah, on topic. I voted yes in the poll. That was what the topic was about right? I could've sworn it became a huge QQ topic about fists and damage dealing :P[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Still trying to move your cursor, eh?0
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