Sins just stop it

Zanryu - Lothranis

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

In response to the part in read. You just defined the very nature of an assassin in MMO's, however, you make it seem like sins are anywhere near the tankyness of a barb, BM, seeker, or even a mystic. I just simply don't think they are, nor do sins have anywhere near the AoE dmg/cc to make it the case. It is common practice to focus sins down, you would think, as a player, you would adapt to being focused down repeatedly. Not saying that this excuses certain pro's to playing a sin (Tidal is a blessing). But it's simple not as reliable as say a def lv buff, or a pdef/mdef buff. It's that unreliability as to why i don't think it's as much of a problem as people claim to me.

The community makes other things. Most of the ex-endgame sin's on DW have rolled Mystics, archers, and seekers. This is after NH mind you. IF there is no motivation to create anything else, how do you explain this?

...Assassins with buffs are extremely tanky, far more so than they should be. If you could actually CC them reliably it wouldn't be an issue, but you can't so it is.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

...Assassins with buffs are extremely tanky, far more so than they should be. If you could actually CC them reliably it wouldn't be an issue, but you can't so it is.

You can't reliably CC an class, so this point is moot.


As for buffs, I can see that, but saying more than they should be? Do you expect sins to just drop at a dime? A mystic in the same exact gear has similar HP and more pdef/mdef than I do. As an arcane class, shouldn't sins be tankier, but they are not?! Then obviously its preemptive to say how tanky they 'should' be.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Dreamweaver is dumb?

Dreamweaver has never had a r9rr +12 JoSD sin that actually knew their class. SO you can't expect people to think endgame sins are uber OP, on a server where they basically don't exist.

XXHotXx - Morai

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You can't reliably CC an class, so this point is moot.


As for buffs, I can see that, but saying more than they should be? Do you expect sins to just drop at a dime? A mystic in the same exact gear has similar HP and more pdef/mdef than I do. As an arcane class, shouldn't sins be tankier, but they are not?! Then obviously its preemptive to say how tanky they 'should' be.

endgame AA has 20k hp, endgame LA has 30k hp lets not talk bs xD

also you can cc the mystic, debuff, amp and especially you can PURGE it

any class with full buffs its really tanky, problem happens when you can purge all the classes except one, and this one class has the best DPH burst in game xD

#balanced

Zanryu - Lothranis

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Dreamweaver has never had a r9rr +12 JoSD sin that actually knew their class. SO you can't expect people to think endgame sins are uber OP, on a server where they basically don't exist.

I can tank entire squads for some time with full buffs, I do this in TW regularly. However, I can be dropped extremely quickly. Do you know why? Because I can be purged. The second I'm purged my ability to survive becomes very hard to maintain. Assassins don't fear this nearly as much and have far better damage than I do while being able to tank almost as well. CC is the biggest part of killing a target, if I had free roam and could do whatever I pleased do you have any clue how difficult I'd be to actually bring down?

Tidal is an issue. You're ignorant. Take your leave so you don't make yourself look even dumber.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

I can tank entire squads for some time with full buffs, I do this in TW regularly. However, I can be dropped extremely quickly. Do you know why? Because I can be purged. The second I'm purged my ability to survive becomes very hard to maintain. Assassins don't fear this nearly as much and have far better damage than I do while being able to tank almost as well. CC is the biggest part of killing a target, if I had free roam and could do whatever I pleased do you have any clue how difficult I'd be to actually bring down?

Tidal is an issue. You're ignorant. Take your leave so you don't make yourself look even dumber.

Please point out to me where i said Tidal isn't an issue. I beg of you.

OH WAIT! I didn't so don't put words in my mouth as an attempt to discredit me. I said I don't THINK it's as much of an issue as some make it out to be. It's a pro of playing a sin, just like your CC kit is a pro of playing a BM.

Next time you wanna flat out lie, do it a couple pages away from the post you are trying to lie about, at least. You are the 'dumb' one sir.

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

endgame AA has 20k hp, endgame LA has 30k hp lets not talk bs xD

also you can cc the mystic, debuff, amp and especially you can PURGE it

any class with full buffs its really tanky, problem happens when you can purge all the classes except one, and this one class has the best DPH burst in game xD

#balanced

With cards and meridians, end game casters on my server have avout 23-25k hp buffed, they have some citrine gems, the others have maxed/reawakened cards.

But that being said, Tidal isn't 100%, and status evasion isn't unique to sins.

XXHotXx - Morai

in 2014 you are trying hard to debate assassin is a squishy class...

yes, LAs are supposed to be squishy,

in fact look at nowadays EAs how they struggle to stay alive, how they struggle to cleanse CCS and how they struggle to DPS since autoattacks do not benefit from attack passives

and now we have Assassins, the other (fake) LA class that is unkillable, cant be CCed and that can 123 kill any class any gears any refines any cards anything, cause of **** skill damage multiplier

you can speak as much as you want but assassin is the most "/sarcasm on" balanced "/sarcasm off" class in game

so balanced that if you make a full squad of assassins you can pretty much facestomp anything PvP-wise

#balanced

Zanryu - Lothranis

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Please point out to me where i said Tidal isn't an issue. I beg of you.

OH WAIT! I didn't so don't put words in my mouth as an attempt to discredit me. I said I don't THINK it's as much of an issue as some make it out to be. It's a pro of playing a sin, just like your CC kit is a pro of playing a BM.

Next time you wanna flat out lie, do it a couple pages away from the post you are trying to lie about, at least. You are the 'dumb' one sir.

I dunno man, you seem dumb enough that you'd think Assassins need to **** solid gold so they'd be what they should be

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Sin is by far more annoying to fight than BM on archer and mind you BMs can pretty much tank archers all day long every day at equal gears. Basically what you can do is ZTP combo on purge when m.marrow is down and thats bout it. And yet Id still much rather fight BM than sin, which really should tell you something.

Sins are far beefier at full buffs than they should. Def passives didnt make it any easier as those added on top of full buffs make sins pretty **** tanky for most parts at endgame. You cant CC or purge them and they will just jump on you and half the time 1shot you with elimination. If they somehow fail to do this, they will simply spark and elimination again as they **** chi. If this for some reason doesnt work, they will stealth and kite if they need to and all you can do is pop laggy af pot to try to see them.

Ps. My main issue with sin class is it requires absolutely no skill to play at all. Tidal, elimination, chi and stealth. Any idiot can learn that much and roll most classes with it.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Ps. My main issue with sin class is it requires absolutely no skill to play at all. Tidal, elimination, chi and stealth. Any idiot can learn that much and roll most classes with it.

Yeah, no.
Also, if people talk about tidal, keep it at SAGE tidal, because it seems everyone is always talking about MUH 66% CHANCE TO AVOID DEBUFFS.

Don't generalize the class entirely because of 1 damn skill.

Also noteworthy to mention:
Discussing this is completely pointless, it has been discussed to hell and heaven and back and forth, nothing changed, it won't change.
Do you know why? Because in China this is a non-issue. They don't have this balance issue.
So why would they give a flying foop about what a dying side-game is doing in 'merica?
They don't, they won't.

Longknife - Harshlands

The fix is simple: Make purge bypass Tidal.


I don't think anyone will mind so much if Sins are a massive threat offensively in exchange for crappy defense. Being behind enemy lines in LA while purged is a guarenteed death, so the result would either be that sins die after one kill or they spend excessive time in stealth waiting for safe opportunities.


It's really that simple and the entirety of the problem is more or less solved. Yes people will still complain about sins oneshotting people, but while you CAN argue that's part of the game and it's just an unpopular game dynamic because some people think 1v1 = skill, this ridiculous situation we have now where a sin has the logistical value of 5 people simply cannot be justified no matter which way you look at it.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The community makes other things. Most of the ex-endgame sin's on DW have rolled Mystics, archers, and seekers. This is after NH mind you. IF there is no motivation to create anything else, how do you explain this?

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Dreamweaver is dumb?

Just to clarify there are no 'endgame' sin's on Dreamweaver that rerolled AFTER new horizons. They all abandoned their sin's as mains way back when purify proc came out and casters were considered the new 'OP' class. Most of those sins were dps/aps build.

There followed a period where sin's were unwanted for big TW factions, and the population of top tier sins dwindled to the handful we have on Dreamweaver today, none of which are endgame yet.

Server to server generally the classes that have endgame gear are considered the 'OP' ones that need 'nerf pls'. On Dreamweaver atm these consist of precisely the three that DionDagger mentioned; seeker, archer and mystic. Which was probably a coincidence.

Longknife - Harshlands

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Server to server generally the classes that have endgame gear are considered the 'OP' ones that need 'nerf pls'. On Dreamweaver atm these consist of precisely the three that DionDagger mentioned; seeker, archer and mystic.

Good to know Dreamweaver has finally made it to 2013.

Socqar - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Good to know Dreamweaver has finally made it to 2013.

LOL and so true... Except for Mystics, those things at endgame are OP... but too hard to play properly to be a risk anyway. So hard to find a real PVP Mystic good geared just because it's so hard to be a good pvp Mystic... Why the effort if u can roll a sin and 3-click face-roll anyone, right? xD

Seekers on the other hand... are not OP, are good. THey have tankyness and hti hard as hell, but if you're aware of the situation can always use genie to counter them rather easily, or know the class to avoid major issues with them (Personally I have a huge issue fighting Seekers but I'm aware it's due to my lack of skill fighting them lol)

Pray for +12 josd sage Primal maxed sins not to reach DW Dark... ea's got hurt badly there, even full endgame maxed EA's against craptastic semi-endgames sins worth a salt have issues

Joe - Morai

As if anyone with maxed gear would be 1-shot by a sin.

Like a said a bazillion times before compare weap dmg to possible defense. A full +10 AA w/o great shards will easily fall to a +12 weap sin. Max out the AA to +12 with great shards and here you go. No more 1-shot.

Anything besides self buffs are for lame ppl that are unable to play defensive. That's a fact. If one can't play defensive at all then I suggest not rolling full deity or such builts.

1on1 is the only fair thing to PvP. Why? Simple. 1on1s are equal (if both players have equal gears ofc) and they are under fair and regulated circumstances. It's not about just the victory. How could it? It's about how you win. Otherwise I could just start a racing tournament with me being alrdy at the goal before the race even starts or using an aimbot in an esl match in your fav. fps game.

No, No, NO! Why should it be any different here then it is in any other competitive sport there is on this planet?

Note: Regulated and equal group PvPs are fine as well, ofc.

I've yet to see anyone getting 1-shotted by a sin under such circumstances. Compare Apples with pears.

Sins are not OP. If they would make tidal not affecting purge anymore then you could forget sins. Reduce the chance of tidal to 30% and you coudl forget them as well. Still. Although Tidal is annoying...it's not OP and leaves most sins very vulnerable. Again. This is where skill matters more then the class.

EDIT: IF we talk about the most cost-efficient killers in the game then yep. That award goes to sins easily. You just need to max the dmg to kill ppl. If you then come to the point where your dmg doesn't get that easily through your opponents gear...well then you're most of the time screwed as a sin. Especially against AA classes. They might not be able to CC or debuff you, but they hit 100% of the time.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Joe - Morai wrote: »

As if anyone with maxed gear would be 1-shot by a sin.

I've yet to see anyone getting 1-shotted by a sin under such circumstances. Compare Apples with pears.

You are clearly so biased for playing barb. Prolly 3rd most geared archer on Archosaur, maybe 2nd, depending how you rank them has been 1shot by sin from what he said to me. Thats full +12, NW gear, Jades, mix of maxed A and S cards I believe. And the sin? Obviously not remotely to that gear tier, +12 dags and whatnot but archo does not have sins on his tier.

I know a friend of mine(Only +11 bow) "1shot" said archer when he was purged and maybe BVd though I would have to ask somebody how it all went down, pretty sure sparking was involved. With that in mind and how much endgame to almost endgame archers complain bout elimination, might of been he was 1shot trough full buffs. I personally get 1shot trough full buffs more often than not but then again I dont expect to live +12 dags too much w/o NW ornies.

As for your tidal comment, more bias for playing class that doesnt really have to deal with it when hammerspam goes trough it.

Socqar - Lost City

Joe - Morai wrote: »

As if anyone with maxed gear would be 1-shot by a sin.

Like a said a bazillion times before compare weap dmg to possible defense. A full +10 AA w/o great shards will easily fall to a +12 weap sin. Max out the AA to +12 with great shards and here you go. No more 1-shot.

Anything besides self buffs are for lame ppl that are unable to play defensive. That's a fact. If one can't play defensive at all then I suggest not rolling full deity or such builts.

1on1 is the only fair thing to PvP. Why? Simple. 1on1s are equal (if both players have equal gears ofc) and they are under fair and regulated circumstances. It's not about just the victory. How could it? It's about how you win. Otherwise I could just start a racing tournament with me being alrdy at the goal before the race even starts or using an aimbot in an esl match in your fav. fps game.

No, No, NO! Why should it be any different here then it is in any other competitive sport there is on this planet?

Note: Regulated and equal group PvPs are fine as well, ofc.

I've yet to see anyone getting 1-shotted by a sin under such circumstances. Compare Apples with pears.

Sins are not OP. If they would make tidal not affecting purge anymore then you could forget sins. Reduce the chance of tidal to 30% and you coudl forget them as well. Still. Although Tidal is annoying...it's not OP and leaves most sins very vulnerable. Again. This is where skill matters more then the class.

EDIT: IF we talk about the most cost-efficient killers in the game then yep. That award goes to sins easily. You just need to max the dmg to kill ppl. If you then come to the point where your dmg doesn't get that easily through your opponents gear...well then you're most of the time screwed as a sin. Especially against AA classes. They might not be able to CC or debuff you, but they hit 100% of the time.

As previous post, you're biased, a lot.

Go watch Rinc videos on YouTube then tell me about them... He's face-rolling full cata-squads with end-game and semi-endgame toons on his own...

Ok, Elimination ain't one-shotting, but one-skilling. That would be more accurate. endgame sins can't 1-shot endgame ea's, fair enough. Try to resist an elimination hit and then you're done

As simple as that, it's not a one shot? can use ad? can use leaps? Yeah... gl trying with lag and a sin portin on you so you have to rely on dmg log to see him

Joe - Morai

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

As previous post, you're biased, a lot.

Go watch Rinc videos on YouTube then tell me about them... He's face-rolling full cata-squads with end-game and semi-endgame toons on his own...

Ok, Elimination ain't one-shotting, but one-skilling. That would be more accurate. endgame sins can't 1-shot endgame ea's, fair enough. Try to resist an elimination hit and then you're done

As simple as that, it's not a one shot? can use ad? can use leaps? Yeah... gl trying with lag and a sin portin on you so you have to rely on dmg log to see him

Ya ofc lag is always a prob. but thats why I said in 1on1s guys. You will know that somethings coming and can prepare for it. If anythign is still exhausted like in NW after another fight and a sin jumps on you as an EA...ya well you are done for pretty much. Fun for the sin but that obviously sucks.

First off: A maxed out EA isn't 1-shot by anything. 20k+ HP and 20k+ of all defenses even unbuffed...well then the sin would have to zerkcrit all hits from elimination while being triple sparked. What kind of sin is that lucky? After that you can always use faith and run away. Def charms should block most of the range dmg a sin can deal.

Besides that. Can an EA beat a sin on equal terms? Self buffed even? Nope. Simply cuz archers are a joke these days and can easily be CCed and killed after Faith has been used. Archers always have been the weakest class in this game in terms of survivability. You guys act as if that's somethign new. Ok granted. Pre NH Archers could kill quite good with their debuffs...which is now gone as well.

Try to compare sins to other classes then. The only other class that could have trouble are psys due to their lack of a buff oof their own but they can use White voodoo and def charms as long as they are uncertain of what to come.

Again do not blame the sins all the time. It is still the inability to play defensively that gets most ppl facerolled by sins and still especially against casters. Sins don't have paralyze (which ofc has to stay like that omg) so you can just purify your way out.

It only gets a bit unfair when sins are buffed. but same can be said about any class. Buffs are what pushes the power of tidal that much. A selfbuffed sin is 2 or 3 or even 1-shot from a great geared psy (especially those moronic full deity "paper"-sins). I admit that it's hard to kill them while they are buffed...but if you are buffed yourself you shouldn't have any problem in surviving them at max gears, full josd (or deity with white Voodoo as a psy, which I prefer due to obvious reasons) as a caster or an Archer. You would have at least the time to run away.

Seriously. Try to 1on1 a bit and you see how "strong" each class really is. It's natural that the odds are different in mass or random PvPing but same goes for anything irl as well.

A ninja master won't be doing that great in a squad of heavy armed marines fighting heavy armed terrorist for example. He'd be dead in seconds. If he would fight a terrorist on equal terms he will most likely win. But w/e.

And I am not biased and never have been. I always tell anyone to fight self buffed. I am a barb. I have a purge weapon and a purge skill. I would have a huge advantage over any class that can't purge but I don't give a damn. Simply cuz it's unfair as hell. I wanna win through skill and not cuz I have the advantage. I wish anyone would think that way. Could pretty much revive PvP. Ya know all that honour and pride stuffz.

BTT: In the end sins are not that OP. If you put yourself into having the worse odds then it's a tactical failure on your side. That includes decisions on genies/shards/apo and your player skill. Sins have been a laugh pre NH, don't ever forget that. They needed a push. Maybe they got pushed a bit too much but cmon...won't be the last update. Imagine what kind of rage you would see if barbs would get something like tidal b:chuckle

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Good to know Dreamweaver has finally made it to 2013.

Dreamweaver rolled, and still is rolling, on an anti-sin policy where they are rejecting them for instances, simply because there are too many **** ones.
As darkskies mentioned, in the past they also got rejected from joining any major guild because of there being too many sins.

If I wanted I could roll my sin to end-game, but I simply don't care anymore, I just do/did PvE, I have no interest in TW for multiple reasons and I utterly suck at PvP. Because of that, the gear I currently have at this point is already too overkill for what I do in-game, so it's not worth it for me and I simply moved on from PWI and so far semi-retired it.

At the point where someone here said seekers are not OP, does your server have any seeker like 1 of dreamweaver's? Full +12, JoSD, nuema portal set at 80/80, the works. Try taking it out, even if it's purged, on your own and not without a full squad.
Mystics when played right and with the right gear are a pain in the *** as well.

You can't expect to play the weakest armor class and then to survive an assassin as easily.

True balance would be:
HA takes out AA. (vicious food chain thing)

AA takes out HA. (vicious food chain thing)

LA is somewhere in the middle of the 2, being able to kill both, but not as easily.
LA should be able to be taken out by either of the 2, but not as easily.
(oh **** what are you doing)

I'm sure people will disagree with above said statement, but that's how I view what balanced could/should be when looking at gear types.

What we also know is that it's not going to happen. If PWI lives to see the day we actually get any balance in-game, i'll applaud it.

Joe - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You can't expect to play the weakest armor class and then to survive an assassin as easily.

True balance would be:
HA takes out AA. (vicious food chain thing)

AA takes out HA. (vicious food chain thing)

LA is somewhere in the middle of the 2, being able to kill both, but not as easily.
LA should be able to be taken out by either of the 2, but not as easily.
(oh **** what are you doing)

I'm sure people will disagree with above said statement, but that's how I view what balanced could/should be when looking at gear types.

What we also know is that it's not going to happen. If PWI lives to see the day we actually get any balance in-game, i'll applaud it.

It's hard. PWI is a PayWin game obviously and as such it is nearly impossible to balance things on any range. Like not going to happen at all. You have alot of freedom...you can for example design your char to be a glass cannon. Many sins are built that way, well better said lots of ppl in general are built that way.

This game is balanced more or less. But that only shows in absolute endgame. That's why I always talk about end-game. Anything below that can't and will never see balance. At least not in the way most ppl are built. Fight against others with Full g16 full +7 as a full g16 full +7 char and you will see that it is pretty much balanced there as well.

Like I said. Most ppl here compare apples with pears. Balance exists but it needs to be balanced from the player side as well. would it be balanced if any nub could kill an average geared sin if they wouldn't have tidal?

Equal gears = balanced PvP and with equal I mean all +7/+10/+11/+12 and not gears +7 and weap +12. This freedom in gear development leads to the imbalance you all complain about. not the classes themselves.

Socqar - Lost City

Joe - Morai wrote: »

Ya ofc lag is always a prob. but thats why I said in 1on1s guys. You will know that somethings coming and can prepare for it. If anythign is still exhausted like in NW after another fight and a sin jumps on you as an EA...ya well you are done for pretty much. Fun for the sin but that obviously sucks.

First off: A maxed out EA isn't 1-shot by anything. 20k+ HP and 20k+ of all defenses even unbuffed...well then the sin would have to zerkcrit all hits from elimination while being triple sparked. What kind of sin is that lucky? After that you can always use faith and run away. Def charms should block most of the range dmg a sin can deal.

Besides that. Can an EA beat a sin on equal terms? Self buffed even? Nope. Simply cuz archers are a joke these days and can easily be CCed and killed after Faith has been used. Archers always have been the weakest class in this game in terms of survivability. You guys act as if that's somethign new. Ok granted. Pre NH Archers could kill quite good with their debuffs...which is now gone as well.

Try to compare sins to other classes then. The only other class that could have trouble are psys due to their lack of a buff oof their own but they can use White voodoo and def charms as long as they are uncertain of what to come.

Again do not blame the sins all the time. It is still the inability to play defensively that gets most ppl facerolled by sins and still especially against casters. Sins don't have paralyze (which ofc has to stay like that omg) so you can just purify your way out.

It only gets a bit unfair when sins are buffed. but same can be said about any class. Buffs are what pushes the power of tidal that much. A selfbuffed sin is 2 or 3 or even 1-shot from a great geared psy (especially those moronic full deity "paper"-sins). I admit that it's hard to kill them while they are buffed...but if you are buffed yourself you shouldn't have any problem in surviving them at max gears, full josd (or deity with white Voodoo as a psy, which I prefer due to obvious reasons) as a caster or an Archer. You would have at least the time to run away.

Seriously. Try to 1on1 a bit and you see how "strong" each class really is. It's natural that the odds are different in mass or random PvPing but same goes for anything irl as well.

A ninja master won't be doing that great in a squad of heavy armed marines fighting heavy armed terrorist for example. He'd be dead in seconds. If he would fight a terrorist on equal terms he will most likely win. But w/e.

And I am not biased and never have been. I always tell anyone to fight self buffed. I am a barb. I have a purge weapon and a purge skill. I would have a huge advantage over any class that can't purge but I don't give a damn. Simply cuz it's unfair as hell. I wanna win through skill and not cuz I have the advantage. I wish anyone would think that way. Could pretty much revive PvP. Ya know all that honour and pride stuffz.

BTT: In the end sins are not that OP. If you put yourself into having the worse odds then it's a tactical failure on your side. That includes decisions on genies/shards/apo and your player skill. Sins have been a laugh pre NH, don't ever forget that. They needed a push. Maybe they got pushed a bit too much but cmon...won't be the last update. Imagine what kind of rage you would see if barbs would get something like tidal b:chuckle

First point: I love constructive discusions with arguments, thanks xD

Still, sins are OP unless you are HA then? Can still one-shot AA's and trust, they can 1-shot ea's just having a couple of lucky zerks on Elimination chain, which btw negates def. charms by doing multiple hits and going the heavy one on last (damn pwi! xD).

THere's no way 2 equal sin - ea can fight 1v1 and have the ea winning unless insane luck, which is not something I'd consider. But it's not just ea's, it's casters, bm's if sin knows how to play (purge bow, ejem ejem) and any other class but barbs. Barbs have the def. and the CC to control sins a bit, making them hard to kill but still doable.

THat's why we said you're biased, you've not experienced in flesh how it feels to be facerolled by sins just that easy even having way better cards, refine, and being ready and skilled enough to fight them. They weren't bad before, they just had a different role. Sins focused on ep's and ea's during fights because they hit hard enough to kill them, but had to dodge fast.

Now sins can even kill HA's rather easily apart from surviving virtually any AA class because they rely on CC's and only 1/3 will work on them

They might be needing a boost pre-NH, TINY boost... Def passives + new skills (ALL of them are good for sins U.U) was an overkill.

So as they won't e nefing the new added skills, for the sake of balance they have to un-tank sins somehow if they're not going to nerf their dmg

XXHotXx - Morai

Joe - Morai wrote: »

It's hard. PWI is a PayWin game obviously and as such it is nearly impossible to balance things on any range. Like not going to happen at all. You have alot of freedom...you can for example design your char to be a glass cannon. Many sins are built that way, well better said lots of ppl in general are built that way.

This game is balanced more or less. But that only shows in absolute endgame. That's why I always talk about end-game. Anything below that can't and will never see balance. At least not in the way most ppl are built. Fight against others with Full g16 full +7 as a full g16 full +7 char and you will see that it is pretty much balanced there as well.

Like I said. Most ppl here compare apples with pears. Balance exists but it needs to be balanced from the player side as well. would it be balanced if any nub could kill an average geared sin if they wouldn't have tidal?

Equal gears = balanced PvP and with equal I mean all +7/+10/+11/+12 and not gears +7 and weap +12. This freedom in gear development leads to the imbalance you all complain about. not the classes themselves.

trinity (deity assassin) gave me 27k on my full buffs and 55k to a self buffed josd barb

the 27k is in some my tw video vs templer go watch it

as pointed out in several other threads, anyone can say legit or not: sin is op pls nerf...

but this also has proven with maths..

f.e. i have 40k base damage, if i press any of my skill in pvp i land 40k

a sin that has 40k base damage, if he presses elimination he lands 320% = 128k -> 90% crit = 248k-> wolf emblem -> 300k .... assassins can also spam 3sparks that gives roughly 50% more base damage for a 450k grand total

not op?

+ immunity to everything with tidal

still not op?

Joe - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

trinity (deity assassin) gave me 27k on my full buffs and 55k to a self buffed josd barb

the 27k is in some my tw video vs templer go watch it

as pointed out in several other threads, anyone can say legit or not: sin is op pls nerf...

but this also has proven with maths..

f.e. i have 40k base damage, if i press any of my skill in pvp i land 40k

a sin that has 40k base damage, if he presses elimination he lands 320% = 128k -> 90% crit = 248k-> wolf emblem -> 300k .... assassins can also spam 3sparks that gives roughly 50% more base damage for a 450k grand total

not op?

+ immunity to everything with tidal

still not op?

I still doubt that dmg of Trinity. Which barb was it? Preist's max hit he ever gave me was a single 22k zerk crit while I was in human form with Sub sea and wood pot while he was self buffed as well on triple spark.

There is no way that 48 attack lvl more make such a huge difference. The only thing I could imagine is that trinity landed a streak of 5 zerk crits on that barb and you calced anything together. I have a feeling that tangling mire and subsea were included as well and that this particular barb was in human form as well. Is the pdef known? Spirit? Def lvl? xDD

And while she hit you...any debuffs? Amps?

PPL these days are too scared of sins imho. The only problem are defensive playing sins. Full deity sins just get blown away. Their tidal protects them against procs so wth ppl. you know they are not going to work in most cases so why bother with them? use your hardest hitting skills and just blast them away cuz your attacks will always hit. I watched so many offensive assas fall to casters just because they didn't watch out.

And honestly. Life hunter is a way bigger threat then elemination. Elemination is slow
and got a 15 sec cd. in most cases you just need to survive the first hit. have you guys ever tried shadow binder powder? Try it. Yes as a caster. Most sins won't even be able to comprehend why they can't CC you for that long time and thus just fall pray for you. If they throw IG then just wait and run til it runs out and kill them afterwards.

And please stop acting like they could 1 shot you 100 times outta 100 times. OFC that can happen if they are really lucky and made some preperations. but that won't happen all the time. especially not when you do an open 1on1 without stealth beforehand.

I gotta agree tho. I always said and always will say that Archer are the weakest class in this game. They got their pros when they are fully buffed and can easily purge others...but that's all.

Any class can just faceroll an equally geared archer in a self buffed 1on1. It's the sad truth. I really love playing Archers. They are alot of fun...but ya know xDD

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

a sin that has 40k base damage

Please point out any sin anywhere on any server of pwi that has 40k base physical damage unsparked.
Well considering cards that could be possible if all maxed out, nevermind.

Still, A wizard fully maxed out should have a lot more mag attack than 40k in the same setup.

(besides that your calculation should come out on 437k, not 450k)

Joe - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Please point out any sin anywhere on any server of pwi that has 40k base physical damage unsparked.
Well considering cards that could be possible if all maxed out, nevermind.

Still, A wizard fully maxed out should have a lot more mag attack than 40k in the same setup.

(besides that your calculation should come out on 437k, not 450k)

Its not true, I recently looked at this sin. he/she/it got ~30k-33k buffed and thats that. xDDD

XXHotXx - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Please point out any sin anywhere on any server of pwi that has 40k base physical damage unsparked.
Well considering cards that could be possible if all maxed out, nevermind.

Still, A wizard fully maxed out should have a lot more mag attack than 40k in the same setup.

(besides that your calculation should come out on 437k, not 450k)

w.e. its just class comparison, but you forgot that the sin has chance to zerkcrit that for 874k damage... cod? 30% more damage = 1.1kk damage sage subsea? 50% more damage = 1.7kk damage u ****** serious?

now lets make the real maths, 75% damage redux from pvp = 425k -> 90% damage reduction from 40k p res = 42500 <-thats the damage (and w\o using genie) you get supposing your defense levels and your spirit its the same of sins spirit and base attack levels, too bad that if the sin is deity sharded he has 100 atk lvls over your def levels for 100% more damage

its just all these granted damage multipliers are way way too broken, no other class remotely comes close to even the HALF of this damage output and they have to stack amps or debuffs, too bad debuffs are nerfed

@ joe: "elimination is slow and has 15 seconds cd?"
you should really check other classes and discover the real meaning of "slow" (channelling i believe) and real cooldowns
full deity sins dont get blown away at endgame since you cant purge their full buffs...

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

w.e. its just class comparison, but you forgot that the sin has chance to zerkcrit that for 874k damage... cod? 30% more damage = 1.1kk damage sage subsea? 50% more damage = 1.7kk damage u ****** serious?

The problem with your given comparison is that you're over exaggerating numbers, thus giving end numbers a way too high of a value than possible.

CoD 30% more damage? Hello diminishing returns?

Learn your numbers before you start throwing around false statements, as you always have been doing and then tossing people off as being trolls and swearing your way around it.


What you should do is deal with it, learn to live with it and accept that it's not going to change because China don't give a flying **** about how broken something is here when they are not seeing the same effect there.

Bottomline:
Sins aren't going to get your nerf.
Sage tidal is supposedly the problem, but the community immediately generalizes sin as a whole.
Nothing will change.
There will still be 48390248309 threads created about this, always ending in the same result; nothing changes.

XXHotXx - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The problem with your given comparison is that you're over exaggerating numbers, thus giving end numbers a way too high of a value than possible.

CoD 30% more damage? Hello diminishing returns?

Learn your numbers before you start throwing around false statements, as you always have been doing and then tossing people off as being trolls and swearing your way around it.


What you should do is deal with it, learn to live with it and accept that it's not going to change because China don't give a flying **** about how broken something is here when they are not seeing the same effect there.

are we talking endgame or what?
i am not overexagerating anything...
which diminishing returns you have with cod against endgame josd targets?
there are no diminishing returns what you talking about

i know thats not gonna change, but that **** is far beyond being overpowered, i tested endgame assassin with current very very endgame vs very very endgame any other class and anytime i pop with a 3s elimination any target is dead if he doesnt expel in time

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i know thats not gonna change, but that **** is far beyond being overpowered, i tested endgame assassin with current very very endgame vs very very endgame any other class and anytime i pop with a 3s elimination any target is dead if he doesnt expel in time

I would love to see you creating videos of this as evidence. And do record every single attempt you do.

Joe - Morai

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

@ joe: "elimination is slow and has 15 seconds cd?"
you should really check other classes and discover the real meaning of "slow" (channelling i believe) and real cooldowns
full deity sins dont get blown away at endgame since you cant purge their full buffs...

that's why I 1on1 self buffed only. And then it's just the same as with blatala. they are 1-shot with a zerk crit...oh sry. 2 shot, forgot deaden =P

I mean at least at this point you should know how redicolous it is to fight fully buffed. Senseless and unfair ****.

Why would they die 1on1? simply because they don't know hwo to play defensivly. Most ppl don't and I'm saying this 10 times each day. I urge them to 1on1 self buffed even if its just for them to learn how to actually play defensively in the way the classes have been designed to begin with.

Ever tried killing an 80k HP barb with 80k Pdef and 43k mag def? gl with that. Won't happen by anyone alone as long as they are buffed. Unfair much? yes. that's why it's stupid.

Senseless giving a heavy DDing class super defenses as well.

My statement still stands. 1on1 selfbuffed: Sins hurt like hell but die very fast.

Socqar - Lost City

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I would love to see you creating videos of this as evidence. And do record every single attempt you do.

Not that hard to test yourself.... Let's say it this way... Making a 20min endgame char?

Would be interesting to see some of those test recorded though to clear some points made here.

I've just tested sin vs. ea as it's my main concern as an ea player... and it's plain sad xD But anyway, as we all know ea's are way too squishy nowadays without having any real hitting skill, turning us into purge-bishes (Def. buffs pot, TY FOR **** US!)

We can hit after heavy debuffing targets with range, that's not bad somehow even if you rely on team-mates, but I kinda like this part

Joe - Morai wrote: »

that's why I 1on1 self buffed only. And then it's just the same as with blatala. they are 1-shot with a zerk crit...oh sry. 2 shot, forgot deaden =P

I mean at least at this point you should know how redicolous it is to fight fully buffed. Senseless and unfair ****.

Why would they die 1on1? simply because they don't know hwo to play defensivly. Most ppl don't and I'm saying this 10 times each day. I urge them to 1on1 self buffed even if its just for them to learn how to actually play defensively in the way the classes have been designed to begin with.

Ever tried killing an 80k HP barb with 80k Pdef and 43k mag def? gl with that. Won't happen by anyone alone as long as they are buffed. Unfair much? yes. that's why it's stupid.

Senseless giving a heavy DDing class super defenses as well.

My statement still stands. 1on1 selfbuffed: Sins hurt like hell but die very fast.

1v1 unbuffed is though stupidly silly, considering we have def. buff pots. No realistic situation can lead to 1v1 unbuffed fights.