Sins just stop it

Socqar - Lost City

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

To be honest, a good archer should absolutely decimate a BM. We just have very few good ones.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

lolno.

Hell NO, pre NH MAYBE, now? No way... They can now stun-lock efficiently using that paralyze thing, and if they're fast enough to kill before their CHI goes puff, then ea's dead meat.

Only way to beat a bm as an ea is to leap leap leap leap to force him to burn chi, and spam phys attacks on it (as at least against me, bm's always go around on mag. marrow to avoid being 2-shot by metal skills), to get a purge, then stun + metal - metal - metal...

Still, at current endgame gears EA's die too easily on equal gears, yet we've recently "acquired" a "new" ea on server running on full Deity +12 NW set... can't wait to see his cards going S to see how does a real Deity EA behave... considering we're a 2-shot anyway, doing some insane damage seems at least, an interesting idea

Socqar - Lost City

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Maybe,
But and end game sin that does know how to play beats anyone and everyone save a good barb.

As you said, save a good barb.

I don't really see an endgame good sin (Stalkers previous CT crazily **** sin having a couple nice youtube videos for example) beating a full josd str built barb (like some Vengeful Executor running around red-named). Those kind of barbs have the HP, Def lvl's and skill to tank most of sin's skills, and can 2-shot a sin without even needing to control him first...

Seriously, once we start having more endgame str barbs around we'll start to fear them the most. At least form my other-server-outa-here experience it was like that... First everyone rolling sins... then str barbs... then needing to nerf barbs down because it was completly unfair against any AA or LA class to even try to gank them in group.

Would be an interesting 1v1 btw, let's make them 1v1 and get a nice video xD

Saethos - Raging Tide

Socqar - Lost City wrote: »

Hell NO, pre NH MAYBE, now? No way... They can now stun-lock efficiently using that paralyze thing, and if they're fast enough to kill before their CHI goes puff, then ea's dead meat.

Only way to beat a bm as an ea is to leap leap leap leap to force him to burn chi, and spam phys attacks on it (as at least against me, bm's always go around on mag. marrow to avoid being 2-shot by metal skills), to get a purge, then stun + metal - metal - metal...

Still, at current endgame gears EA's die too easily on equal gears, yet we've recently "acquired" a "new" ea on server running on full Deity +12 NW set... can't wait to see his cards going S to see how does a real Deity EA behave... considering we're a 2-shot anyway, doing some insane damage seems at least, an interesting idea

Maybe in 1v1 but I was talking about mass PvP, where the BM is best. Probably should have cleared that up.

BM will be busy, or at least should be, controling the largest group, since we are crowd control, and the archer shouldn't be placed close enough to get caught in the AoE spam that's coming up. See the BM charging your squad? Target, debuff, kill. In PK I give archers hard times, yeah, but in NW/TW 60% of the time I die it's from an archer that was in the distance, out of my area. (Because my sin was either killed or didn't see the archer either) And I've seen archers come from stealth and get 3 blows on me in what feels like (though I know it isn't) 1 second, and with an insane crit rate and range/surprise advantage, if my genie is on cd (which since you have stealth you can watch for that) I can't do anything about it, especially if I just antistunned, putting it on cd, used my genie, roared and HF'd, for a demon that's over 3 sparks, less than 3 for a sage, but both are still in need of more chi, then you can take the opportune moment and say hi with a crit to the face.

As far as archers complaining about purge not happening often enough, I get purged 4-5 hits in a row, so I don't wanna hear it.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

OPKossy wrote: »

You forgot to add, "And how many of the few mystics that are around have both the gear AND the skill required to put whatever OPness the class supposedly has to use?"

While an assassin is insanely powerful, a sin in APS setup isn't doing jack squat against any endgame player with two brain cells to rub together... and an endgame sin who doesn't have a clue what he's doing isn't going to be much of a problem to an endgame player who knows how to play. Same thing would apply to Mystics... except there's a lot less Mystics than there are assassins.

On dreamweaver there are about 5-10 endgame mystics and 0 endgame assassins.

KuruTu - Harshlands

Balanced class ftw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsYUuOdulB8

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

KuruTu - Harshlands wrote: »

Balanced class ftw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsYUuOdulB8

LOL look how much that one single skill alone kills people. I miss the older community this game used to have, at least they were intelligent/perceptive enough to recognize class imbalance like this. People hanging around these days either deny it or are just too dumb to notice or don't think anything is wrong with this...

Eoria - Harshlands

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

LOL look how much that one single skill alone kills people. I miss the older community this game used to have, at least they were intelligent/perceptive enough to recognize class imbalance like this. People hanging around these days either deny it or are just too dumb to notice or don't think anything is wrong with this...

See all the people trying to handwave current sin OPness by saying "oh, most of them are APS" or "most don't have those skills".

It doesn't matter if only a few sins per server reach that level OPness. It does not stop it from being OP and does not stop more sins from reaching that potential.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Saethos - Raging Tide wrote: »

Maybe in 1v1 but I was talking about mass PvP, where the BM is best. Probably should have cleared that up.

BM will be busy, or at least should be, controling the largest group, since we are crowd control, and the archer shouldn't be placed close enough to get caught in the AoE spam that's coming up. See the BM charging your squad? Target, debuff, kill. In PK I give archers hard times, yeah, but in NW/TW 60% of the time I die it's from an archer that was in the distance, out of my area. (Because my sin was either killed or didn't see the archer either) And I've seen archers come from stealth and get 3 blows on me in what feels like (though I know it isn't) 1 second, and with an insane crit rate and range/surprise advantage, if my genie is on cd (which since you have stealth you can watch for that) I can't do anything about it, especially if I just antistunned, putting it on cd, used my genie, roared and HF'd, for a demon that's over 3 sparks, less than 3 for a sage, but both are still in need of more chi, then you can take the opportune moment and say hi with a crit to the face.

As far as archers complaining about purge not happening often enough, I get purged 4-5 hits in a row, so I don't wanna hear it.

Are you familiar with the term insane troll logic?

As far as you claiming to get hit by purge 4-5 hits in a row, I would argue its quite unlikely. I would even provide math but I suspect it would be waste of time for everybody involved.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

KuruTu - Harshlands wrote: »

Balanced class ftw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsYUuOdulB8

>There are people who actually think that Assassins are balanced
>There are people who seriously believe that Sins aren't much of an issue in Mass PvP



What has this world come to?

Zanryu - Lothranis

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Are you familiar with the term insane troll logic?

As far as you claiming to get hit by purge 4-5 hits in a row, I would argue its quite unlikely. I would even provide math but I suspect it would be waste of time for everybody involved.

It's called the Gank Purge effect. Once you're taking on any amount of people and a class that uses a purge weapon joins in, you get purged within the first 10 hits. It's a thing.

Seriously, in NW I get purged within the first few hits almost every time. It's freakin' redonk. I had one guy purge me twice in a row.

Quilue - Sanctuary

We've had this debate before. Endgame sin beats endgame barb 1v1 and it was demonstrated in videos.

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

HESOKA - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think PWI need to Make an individual Assassin QQ thread, But i Have to Agree with you, We Assasins are not only OP, but ever since the update very little skill is required to Win evan against the very skilled players.

But having said that.

I don't see a wizard wining to a BM, yet no wizards ever QQ about it.
I don't see a wizard, psychic, Mystic, wining to a cleric, but none of these people ever QQ
I don't see an archer wining to a BM, but non of these people ever QQ about it.
I don't see a BM wining to a veno, but none of these people ever QQ about it.
I don't see and AA class Wining to BM but none of these people ever QQ about magical marrow.
I don't see a seeker wining to a cleric but none of these people ever QQ about it.

Idk archers qq a lot cause they suck have you been to the archer forums recently!

Qqqqqqqq wtb evasion buff like the one all the other classes are getting, Ty

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

HideYoHubby - Archosaur wrote: »

Are you familiar with the term insane troll logic?

As far as you claiming to get hit by purge 4-5 hits in a row, I would argue its quite unlikely. I would even provide math but I suspect it would be waste of time for everybody involved.

Also, this +1.


I've never purged twice in a row. I've been checking. But yeah here's some simple maths, the archer purge proc rate is most definitely less than 50%. Let's say for arguments sake it's 40%.

There's a 1-2% chance of you getting purged 4-5 times in a row. I'm pretty sure archer proc is less than 40% too (talking about spirit black hole here)

Put it this way, I don't crit 4-5 times in a row much more than I purge and my crit is 65% base.

Pretty sure I miss on arcanes more than I purge too.

Secondly, damage is calculated before the purge, so.... Let's not be crazy and even being it into this discussion about Sins because we've all seen the broken max hits people who can zerk crit can do.

Archers are the only class that use asp at end game. There is a reason why sins don't just IG and pop out from stealth in full deity aps gear with r9r2 daggers and it's nothing to do with cost or ability to tank because most sins with equal gear to my archer (completely comparable) could easily drop me in 12-20 seconds, and if not they've made a mistake that tidal will save them from anyway which is more than can be said for "EVASION BUFFS" like condor and wings of protection.

Do I need to mention damage buffs too? Blazing arrow vs chill of the deep + wolf emblem?

Qqqqqqqqqqq

Quilue - Sanctuary

It's more like...how do people get expensive stuff from packs? That's less than 1%, even 0.01% but it happens.

So for those who get purged twice by an archer, ditto. Ever gotten zerk crit twice in a row by a sin?

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

It happens I'm sure, but no one ever qqs about consecutive gof (which is far more useful and procs more) or getting scrolls of tome.

KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

We've had this debate before. Endgame sin beats endgame barb 1v1 and it was demonstrated in videos.

Link to vid please

Quilue - Sanctuary

Thread link: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1684301

Vid link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXGdlH6bU78

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thread link: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1684301

Vid link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXGdlH6bU78

Only thing I can say about this is that the barb needs an anti CC genie to even have a chance. But I don't think having an entire genie dedicated to 1v1ing a single class is entirely fair, or that useful to a barb in other circumstances.

bloodedone87

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thread link: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1684301

Vid link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXGdlH6bU78

I dont pk but i must say: That barb had 0 chance against the sin. If the barb with the insane amount of hp, higher defence its crushed like that by a sin then why you call barbs TANK?b:shocked

overcomem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxVWhXfMIts b:chuckle

Caydon - Heavens Tear

bloodedone87 wrote: »

I dont pk but i must say: That barb had 0 chance against the sin. If the barb with the insane amount of hp, higher defence its crushed like that by a sin then why you call barbs TANK?b:shocked

This.

But I think that's where the difference between the good and the great players come in. Good players just kinda deal with it and accept that they can't win sins.

Great players keep trying new combos, genie skill sets, and new attack set ups to see how they can do better each time. Cause technically there's always room to improve, unless you're already full r9rr +12 JOSDs. And even then your skill could get a rework.

KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thread link: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1684301

Vid link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXGdlH6bU78

LOOOOOL how is THAT barb end game? from his hp he looks to have less than 30k in human form. Even a no vitality r9r2 +12 barb without any hp shards is over 30k in human form self buffed.

You can't based on that video claim sins will beat barbs endgame gear b:victory

Quilue - Sanctuary

So if I tell you endgame LA with no hp/vit shards should have 20k+ hp unbuffed, you are going to tell me that sin isn't endgame either right?

From that other link I guess I'm wrong too though. It's possible for either class to beat the other.

KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

So if I tell you endgame LA with no hp/vit shards should have 20k+ hp unbuffed, you are going to tell me that sin isn't endgame either right?

From that other link I guess I'm wrong too though. It's possible for either class to beat the other.

Yes because if without any vitality, buffs and hp shards an endgame toon should have certain hp and they don't, then they are clearly not endgame.

Endgame means weapon, armor, ornaments all +12 and highest recast, with either jades or deities. Don't get me started on cards

Bhavyy - Raging Tide

KeepMeAIive - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes because if without any vitality, buffs and hp shards an endgame toon should have certain hp and they don't, then they are clearly not endgame.

Endgame means weapon, armor, ornaments all +12 and highest recast, with either jades or deities. Don't get me started on cards

Looking for an idealistic scenario but agreed. Although if they had equal gear and close to end game refines and shards then I guess it's still a bit more comparable than this.

What is the gear of both of these toons? The barb does drop pretty easily but it seems more down to gear than anything in this video

Toraah - Archosaur

op wrote:

Sins just stop it

No.

/5char

Ahira - Lost City

Bhavyy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Looking for an idealistic scenario but agreed. Although if they had equal gear and close to end game refines and shards then I guess it's still a bit more comparable than this.

What is the gear of both of these toons? The barb does drop pretty easily but it seems more down to gear than anything in this video

I dont think either claw or pantene are endgame and there's not a huge gear difference between them as far as I can remember. In that 2nd video that was linked flashman has a bit better gear than claw but flash is not full str.

XXHotXx - Morai

a barb with expel losing to a sin b:shocked sin balanced

tho wood pot + condensed thorn op

XXHotXx - Morai

Zoldi - Morai wrote: »

Incorrect (would not even be fun if this was true b:chuckle)


And mystics are a do all class. I never saw anyone from PWI or PWCN staff stating "we designed mystics as a support only class".

Anyway even if Mystics can be OP, I'm not sure this is the class you can QQ about...
What is the percentage of mystics on each server ? How many of you said in the past that mystics were useless ? How many people still consider mystics as useless just because they don't know the class ? And even 50-75% of the people that now say mystics are OP don't know the class anyway.

sry i forgot to reply here

mystics were designed as a support class, they dont have high damage multipliers all damage skills have like 100% weapon damage 200% weapon damage, and they have a lot of utility skills like heals mana regen res shield purify (if lucky)
this is a support class

i was one of those people saying in past mystics were useless because when on pwi the base magic\phys. damage was prolly the half of what we have now (r9 stage 1, no reborns, no emperor tome, no cards) mystic heals were ****, and mystic damage was ****

now mystic class at endgame has one of the highest base mag atk making it really OP both for heals and for damage

besides the ability to dps wood damage thanks to skills with basically no chann+cast time and no cooldowns

but yesterday i tried: chihyu leech-> demon spark-> rapid growth-> natures vengeance-> storm dance-> absorb soul-> nature vengeance-> absorb soul, man this **** really floors anyone and you land this in less than 10 seconds, its crazy how demon spark chann redux and rapid growth chann redux stack with each other, the dps is so so huge

but yea big flaw of the mystic is that they have no CC skills besides gale force? and plants?, while an assassin is full of high damage-CCs making it a no-match still

Boomz - Harshlands

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

sry i forgot to reply here

mystics were designed as a support class, they dont have high damage multipliers all damage skills have like 100% weapon damage 200% weapon damage, and they have a lot of utility skills like heals mana regen res shield purify (if lucky)
this is a support class

i was one of those people saying in past mystics were useless because when on pwi the base magic\phys. damage was prolly the half of what we have now (r9 stage 1, no reborns, no emperor tome, no cards) mystic heals were ****, and mystic damage was ****

now mystic class at endgame has one of the highest base mag atk making it really OP both for heals and for damage

besides the ability to dps wood damage thanks to skills with basically no chann+cast time and no cooldowns

but yesterday i tried: chihyu leech-> demon spark-> rapid growth-> natures vengeance-> storm dance-> absorb soul-> nature vengeance-> absorb soul, man this **** really floors anyone and you land this in less than 10 seconds, its crazy how demon spark chann redux and rapid growth chann redux stack with each other, the dps is so so huge

but yea big flaw of the mystic is that they have no CC skills besides gale force? and plants?, while an assassin is full of high damage-CCs making it a no-match still

mystics have more cc than you think. They are able to spam their "chi costing" pets (they gain so much chi so fast it seems like they cost nothing) which have tons of cc. The storm one has a 2 secondish silence and the devil has a 2-3 second stun. Also their close range aoe skill has a silence (also seal). That, along with their OP sleep plant, they have every type of cc and are capable of shutting a target down for an extrmely long period of time while they dps burst them with absorb soul (which still doesn't awake you from their 10 sec+ long sleep plants).