New "stun" skill effect

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  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Poison Fang hits through Physical Immunity.

    Will stun.
    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:shutup ya skipped some parts of this thread, it ignore purify proc, though, im assumign poison fang would make the debuff stick even through psy will.....

    b:byeb:bye
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  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Poison Fang hits through Physical Immunity.

    Will stun.
    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:shutup ya skipped some parts of this thread, it ignore purify proc, though, im assumign poison fang would make the debuff stick even through psy will.....

    Lmao... Well GG people... Times to ignore barbs on PVP are over... b:victory
  • Mooooooooo - Lost City
    Mooooooooo - Lost City Posts: 377 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Lmao... Well GG people... Times to ignore barbs on PVP are over... b:victory

    yeah I guess just have to target and kill all the barbs first.
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  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Let me ask u something... Since so many casters are QQing, what is the way for mele players to "COUNTER" Purify, since every1 here is qqing cause Mighty Swing new effect has no counter i wonder cause... Im sure im not the only that have entered on a battle with 1 MEGA OP caster (no matter class, i've seen wiz/veno/cleric/mystic blah blah) taking flag, get hit by LOTS of players -mid geared- and they just proc purify and make them score flag... "ASAP"...
    ISNT THAT BROKEN?b:shutup

    It gets rid of debuffs applied on you.. Give su enough speed to get away from your mele attacker... lolz..

    Learn how 2 play with a new way to get countered or quit...
  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Let me ask u something... Since so many casters are QQing, what is the way for mele players to "COUNTER" Purify, since every1 here is qqing cause Mighty Swing new effect has no counter i wonder cause... Im sure im not the only that have entered on a battle with 1 MEGA OP caster (no matter class, i've seen wiz/veno/cleric/mystic blah blah) taking flag, get hit by LOTS of players -mid geared- and they just proc purify and make them score flag... "ASAP"...
    ISNT THAT BROKEN?b:shutup

    It gets rid of debuffs applied on you.. Give su enough speed to get away from your mele attacker... lolz..

    Learn how 2 play with a new way to get countered or quit...

    It was listed well on that epically long 'remove purify proc y/n' thread.


    Mainly it is bms that "can" (<-- keyword) counter it.

    Blade hurl (aka removes their weapon)
    Make sure everyone's coordinated enough not to allow it to proc.. aka don't herpaderp.
    Reel In
    Immoblizations/Sleeps/Seals

    ---

    I have an opinion about all these especially considering its mainly just a bm that can do the countering... but I'll refrain from adding my opinion about these 'counters.'

    EDIT: This thread!
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    This is still an issue?


    If a skill or effect has a counter, then is it not broken.

    ^
    |
    |
    |

    Is this statement something most people would agree with?

    If so, this should not be an issue, Barbs are not suddenly overpowered beyond any other class limits.
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  • Slivaf - Dreamweaver
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,106 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This is still an issue?


    If a skill or effect has a counter, then is it not broken.

    ^
    |
    |
    |

    Is this statement something most people would agree with?

    If so, this should not be an issue, Barbs are not suddenly overpowered beyond any other class limits.

    No I do NOT agree with that statement.

    Really just about anything in the game has some way to 'counter' it/potentially make things happen where it doesn't even come into play. (Everything has it's weakness.)

    ---

    What I do believe is this:

    "Just because something has it's weakness it doesn't mean it isn't overpowered."

    See
    Ah, Mistakes are so easily made. ~ laura resnick

    What kind of message are you sending when you insult my intelligence? ~ Me ~ 5/29/2015 (Yes it is possible someone said this before just no idea who/where.)
  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    It was listed well on that epically long 'remove purify proc y/n' thread.


    Mainly it is bms that "can" (<-- keyword) counter it.

    Blade hurl (aka removes their weapon)
    Make sure everyone's coordinated enough not to allow it to proc.. aka don't herpaderp.
    Reel In
    Immoblizations/Sleeps/Seals

    ---

    I have an opinion about all these especially considering its mainly just a bm that can do the countering... but I'll refrain from adding my opinion about these 'counters.'

    EDIT: This thread!

    U forgot to ADD seekers combo to disarm enemy...

    Now... ONLY DISABLING WEAPON IS ONLY WAY, and just certain classes have it.. What does it put other classes on? Plate of food? Yup...

    Time for some revenge, sinec we were completly vulnerable against that proc, now we have a way to actually counter it ;)
  • Knownase - Heavens Tear
    Knownase - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,959 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    No I do NOT agree with that statement.

    Really just about anything in the game has some way to 'counter' it/potentially make things happen where it doesn't even come into play. (Everything has it's weakness.)

    ---

    What I do believe is this:

    "Just because something has it's weakness it doesn't mean it isn't overpowered."

    See

    The only thing with your analogy of BLS from Yu-Gi-Oh is that at least everyone had the ability to get it, where as Purify Spell now, is only limited to AA users.

    If Purify Spell was available to everyone, perhaps we wouldn't even be complaining about it, or maybe the outrage would be greater.

    While something that is deemed "broken" and the only thing to address it is to add another "broken" mechanic does not negate anything, I still do not see how this is outrageous given the game's history. If anything, there should be more outrage on the War Avatar System than this.

    Back in the Purify Spell outrage thread, many users of it simply stated that you just need to "play smarter" to bypass it. See how that logic can apply here with this one stun skill?

    The responses were just ridiculous.
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  • Toddloveleah - Harshlands
    Toddloveleah - Harshlands Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Lol @ this topic. Oh so the bms finally get a decent skill and other classes have the integrity to QQ about it.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    Wizzys can jump outta stun, if they have proc that removes. GG stuns.

    Seekers can increase their own attack lvls and decrease their enemies defense levels while already having phys/mag filled attacks that will render one sided defenses useless. GG.

    You know how many different people ive heard say "oh i had a bm and i quit it" damn near half the server.

    The LEAST we can get is a damn stun that cant be proc'd off or purified or any of that ****. Stunlocking is a bms only ability and everyones already been given ways to cheat out of it and now you wanna cry over one stun that will actually stun you?

    Stop all that.
  • Flash_man - Lost City
    Flash_man - Lost City Posts: 82 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Purify is what broke the game.
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Toddloveleah - Harshlands wrote: »
    Lol @ this topic. Oh so the bms finally get a decent skill and other classes have the integrity to QQ about it.

    HAHAHAHAHHA.

    Wizzys can jump outta stun, if they have proc that removes. GG stuns.

    Seekers can increase their own attack lvls and decrease their enemies defense levels while already having phys/mag filled attacks that will render one sided defenses useless. GG.

    You know how many different people ive heard say "oh i had a bm and i quit it" damn near half the server.

    The LEAST we can get is a damn stun that cant be proc'd off or purified or any of that ****. Stunlocking is a bms only ability and everyones already been given ways to cheat out of it and now you wanna cry over one stun that will actually stun you?

    Stop all that.

    No one is saying this about the BM skill yet since no one has the skill to test and confirm it and even if it did, it has a sorta reasonable chi cost and cooldown (though tbh, the cooldown should probably be doubled if it does in fact work in the same manner).

    The QQ is about how barbs can literally mindlessly spam their skill and stunlock someone with no effort and there is about jack-all you can do about it regardless of class outside of potting or using genie (or hoping you're a psy with psy will ready).
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  • Doom_Panda - Harshlands
    Doom_Panda - Harshlands Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    With Poison Fang you can still stun/immobilize thru Psy Will.
    Mains:
    Doom_Panda- 102/101/102 R9 3rd cast Demon Barb 40k HP.
    Dawnx - 100/85 Demon Cleric.
    PsychicTuna- 101/100 Sage Psychic.
    DawnMyst- 96 Demon Mystic.

    PANDAS FTW. AND I b:heart ARMA! b:avoid
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Purify from R8R or R9Rr... isnt that enough? How OP that proc actually is?
    Psy can also use the immune to phys damage skill, wich makes Mighty Swing not deal any damage/stun effect either...

    A cleric that has ENOUGH disables to keep a barb at distance...

    Most barbs have pioson fang on, which allows you to stun them as normal.
    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    and soul of fire, stealth, deaden nerves, kite away

    also trying spark on sage tidal?

    no DionDagger, YOU must be bad :x and also a noob seen that you are comparing a passive OP broken buff with a 2 spark aoe nuke that doesnt make any sense

    You must be an idiot, you can only counter things like that in the case of 1v1 when you aren't being CCed. Ever played a sin in TW? No? Go try it, and see how many wizards you can trip spark on w/o getting blasted by several poeple.

    I speak in general, not just 1v1's.
  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    t=The topic is whether or not an unblockable stun is warranted; and i think it is.

    The stun has a cd and 1 spark requirement for BMs and does not have a 100% proc rate for barbs

    Blademasters have the lowest damage of any class in the game. That is a fact.
    They can rival a barbs damage by giving up 3/4 weapon paths and all hope of ever actually hitting their targets but that's it.

    They give up a stun skill for this new one.
    They don't gain any extra.
    Blademasters need to keep someone in place for a significant duration (assuming equal gears) in order to kill them as they are a melee class with low damage.

    Earlier in PWI history:
    To compensate for assassins having similar stunlocking ability to BMs and incredibly high damage PWE updated genie skills to break stuns, gave psys counter buffs, and released purify proc.

    This hurt BMs incredibly as a class, which is why the new stun is warranted.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Desdi - Sanctuary
    Desdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Flash_man - Lost City wrote: »
    Purify is what broke the game.

    APS broke the game and they released Purify proc to counter it. Purify proc broke the game further and released this new kind of stun to counter. Watch us next year getting a new counter for that stun that breaks the game even more.

    I'd have preferred a nerf to Purify proc like I supported in the well-known long thread. You know, not all casters agree Purify proc is fine but we aren't stupid not to use it while we can. I'm also sure most people knew it would eventually get counters and attempts to weaken it.

    The thing is that instead of trying to fix things, they think slapping more OP things on top of OP things is the way to go but that causes more issues in the long run. Maybe it's not exactly OP but it certainly isn't fun chaining stuns till the target dies before they even do anything just like it's not any fun having people poking at the flag carrier and instead of stopping them they'd help them win.

    It's ok though. Let people complain until they stop and suck it up. That's how it's been around here anyway!
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  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    @ diondagger: meh w.e. you say, i wont even read your worthless comments anymore moreover cause they come from not-endgame geared average skilled sin


    if purify was op then what is sage tidal? at least you can get a purge trough purify...

    i believe the OPness of an in-game feature should be rated by the number of that feature's counters

    purify has quite lot of counters: sog reel transposition damage increase debuffs new mighty swing help me if i forgot any
    new mighty swing has 1 counter: ironguard
    sage tidal has no counters still
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123510
    mypers.pw/1.7/#123524

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  • Beleni - Dreamweaver
    Beleni - Dreamweaver Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Right then!!!!!

    Lets clear a few things up shall we!

    a any character can pop a Vac pot to make them immune to stuns for 20 seconds, some class' like BM's and sins have their own Anti stun skill.

    What can a Sin do awhile the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from hitting?

    Throat Cut

    What can a BM do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from hitting?

    Smack or Blade Hurl

    What can a Psy do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from hitting?

    SandBall clash, Soul of silence

    What can a Mystic do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    Thicket or gale force

    What can a Seeker do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    QpQ

    What can Venomancers do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    Paranova

    What can clerics do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    Seal of the God

    What can Wizard do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    incase you have not caught on yet, They can Silence the target!

    Now lets look at what a barb can do ....

    Nothing :)

    This new skill gives barbarians a way to CC while the player has an anti stun active.

    THIS IS NOTHING NEW TO THE GAME

    I mean its not like every skill that was created after Tideborns was released actually ignores the barbarians 2 spark defence of Invoke the spirit..

    O wait a second
  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    can we pretty please shut the *** up over which class has the lowest damage? f:cute

    purify is OP, but it's more manageable than an unavoidable stun. imo, barbs deserve this, BMs don't.
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  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    can we pretty please shut the *** up over which class has the lowest damage? f:cute

    purify is OP, but it's more manageable than an unavoidable stun. imo, barbs deserve this, BMs don't.

    What a compelling argument.
    Your evidence is strong and facts undeniable.
    One can clearly see your conclusion as result your defined premises.

    /sarcasm.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »
    What a compelling argument.
    Your evidence is strong and facts undeniable.
    One can clearly see your conclusion as result your defined premises.

    /sarcasm.

    hey mate, I dont go into longwinded rants and lectures about BS unrelated to anything, thats your expertise. Purify is OP, no denying, but it's manageable. It's also unpredictable, which makes it as flawed as useful and unable to be relied on. New stun skill also screws over classes that dont even have purify in the first place, like archers. or g16 nv venos. >_> bms have enough stuns. I'm happy to see barbs getting it, since imo they need it more than the stunni-est class in game.

    quit crying over your **** damage and +13 your axes with another $1.5k

    also can we just agree to ignore each other? this petty forum nonsense is ridiculous. dont you have other relationships to try ruin?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    Oh Nick, you're too kind to me f:cute
    I can understand barbs needing another stun skill that's not total ****, but BMs already have their fair share of stunning skills.
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    bms have enough stuns. I'm happy to see barbs getting it, since imo they need it more than the stunni-est class in game.
    This again? Already told you:
    Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »
    We give up a stun skill for it.
    We don't gain any extra.
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    Give up a stun skill to gain a still significant 7-second stun skill.

    edit: what does a stun even have to do with BMs crappy or not crappy damage?
    Oh I guess you do get it after all. I am glad that you asked! Here you go :
    Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »
    The topic is whether or not an unblockable stun is warranted; and i think it is.

    The stun has a cd and 1 spark requirement for BMs and does not have a 100% proc rate for barbs

    Blademasters have the lowest damage of any class in the game. That is a fact.
    They can rival a barbs damage by giving up 3/4 weapon paths and all hope of ever actually hitting their targets but that's it.

    They give up a stun skill for this new one.
    They don't gain any extra.
    Blademasters need to keep someone in place for a significant duration (assuming equal gears) in order to kill them as they are a melee class with low damage.

    Earlier in PWI history:
    To compensate for assassins having similar stunlocking ability to BMs and incredibly high damage PWE updated genie skills to break stuns, gave psys counter buffs, and released purify proc.

    This hurt BMs incredibly as a class, which is why the new stun is warranted.
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    also can we just agree to ignore each other? this petty forum nonsense is ridiculous. don't you have other rekationships to try ruin?
    I agree so knock it off. Seriously...
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    I swear you always manage to bring up "your wife" in every post regardless of the content, lmao.
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    Whats a BM doing in the venomancer subforum, anyway?
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    Stalking you? Eh.. you happen to rear your head in forums I visit, even ones where a blademaster is unwelcome.

    I've contributed my piece already.     I'm amazed you managed to type a post without bringing your wife up. Gold star!
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    Oh Nick, you're too kind to me f:cute
    I can understand barbs needing another stun skill that's not total ****, but BMs already have their fair share of stunning skills.

    and @mart, thats a hideous font choice. if it's even mart on Lapp, lol.
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    and @mart i've seen threads and posts in which my ex-Glorious Leader uses his sin alt to promote his point or make himself look better. it's quite funny.
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    that video was the best xmas gift anyone could have given me ever /dies laughing
    ^ Necessary? Related?
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    Just thought it was funny. You can't begrudge a girl some amusement when someone she dislikes gets killed.

    Isn't this thread supposed to be about the new stuns, not a "I do less damage, QQ no*I* do less damage" QQ thread?
    Oh well in that case.... (lol)
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    For all your flaws you are neither unskilled nor stupid,
    Thanks :D
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    so the fact you don't agree this type of unblockable stun is OP is.. significant.
    -fixed- ^^


    To be honest I am not really sure why you're even here. I mean, you'd think you'd follow your own advice.
    Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »
    Switch classes, or deal w/ it. Crying about it accomplishes nothing and makes them look pathetic :D
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Soooooooos - Sanctuary
    Soooooooos - Sanctuary Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL a wiz QQing ?
    what about to nerf the genie Spark for you Mr Wiz ?
    What about making the Mire like genie Spark ?
    What About Removing The Purify ? b:byeb
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »
    APS broke the game and they released Purify proc to counter it. Purify proc broke the game further and released this new kind of stun to counter. Watch us next year getting a new counter for that stun that breaks the game even more.

    I'd have preferred a nerf to Purify proc like I supported in the well-known long thread. You know, not all casters agree Purify proc is fine but we aren't stupid not to use it while we can. I'm also sure most people knew it would eventually get counters and attempts to weaken it.

    The thing is that instead of trying to fix things, they think slapping more OP things on top of OP things is the way to go but that causes more issues in the long run. Maybe it's not exactly OP but it certainly isn't fun chaining stuns till the target dies before they even do anything just like it's not any fun having people poking at the flag carrier and instead of stopping them they'd help them win.

    It's ok though. Let people complain until they stop and suck it up. That's how it's been around here anyway!

    APS was long gone by the time Purify came about, with the better gears, APS simply became obsolete. You honestly think people stopped using APS because of Purify proc?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Beleni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Right then!!!!!

    Lets clear a few things up shall we!

    a any character can pop a Vac pot to make them immune to stuns for 20 seconds, some class' like BM's and sins have their own Anti stun skill.

    What can a Sin do awhile the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from hitting?

    Throat Cut

    What can a BM do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from hitting?

    Smack or Blade Hurl

    What can a Psy do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from hitting?

    SandBall clash, Soul of silence

    What can a Mystic do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    Thicket or gale force

    What can a Seeker do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    QpQ

    What can Venomancers do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    Paranova

    What can clerics do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    Seal of the God

    What can Wizard do while the target is in anti stun mode to prevent them from attacking?

    incase you have not caught on yet, They can Silence the target!

    Now lets look at what a barb can do ....

    Nothing :)

    This new skill gives barbarians a way to CC while the player has an anti stun active.

    THIS IS NOTHING NEW TO THE GAME

    I mean its not like every skill that was created after Tideborns was released actually ignores the barbarians 2 spark defence of Invoke the spirit..

    O wait a second

    +1+1+1+1++1+1+11+

    b:kiss Enough said
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Barb can purge, geegee antistun.
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Barb can purge, geegee antistun.

    yeah.. 20% chance to purge every 30 seconds... ooohh SO SCARY!!
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Purge is usually the contributing factor that kills people so yes, it is scary.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    For Demon BMs, with a 7.5 seconds duration unpreventable and unbreakable stun, a bm with full chi bar can stun then triple spark and still have 4.5 seconds time left to do whatever his evil heart desire with his now amped damage and brutally dealing massive damage to the hopeless victim, if that's still not enough, he can add more damage using Frenzy, Extreme Poison, Tangling Mire b:surrender

    Maybe the only counter to this stun is expel, but we can't put it together with faith/belief unless we throw holy path.
  • Mooooooooo - Lost City
    Mooooooooo - Lost City Posts: 377 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Why melees only complain about purify being op as if its the only weapon proc given out. Adv zerk and spirit blackhole are extremely good too, and bm, barb, sins can get both of them. Id gladly trade purify for zerk on my r9 weapon and spirit black hole on a sub weapon if melees get purify on weapon and no spirit blackhole. Do you think that would be a desirable trade?
    youtube channel: youtube.com/user/chezedude

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