New "stun" skill effect

Quilue - Sanctuary

Like I said, much easier to pull off high cost combos in group PvP against distracted targets.

I'd like to see a BM HF mire EP a wiz in a 1v1, really. Might take half an hour of tangling before a wiz gives you that kind of opening.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Like I said, much easier to pull off high cost combos in group PvP against distracted targets.

I'd like to see a BM HF mire EP a wiz in a 1v1, really. Might take half an hour of tangling before a wiz gives you that kind of opening.

That I have no quarrel with. *hides*

Clergywoman - Raging Tide

we wandered from the subject quite far. somehow it started as a discussion about a newly introduced "stun" effect, and now it seems to be a thread where try we teach people how to play their class and how the damage is being calculated. there are class-subforums with guides for that. b:shutup

a skill that

Aeliah - Dreamweaver wrote: »

-has 6s (5s if sage) cd, with 4s stun duration up to 80% of time spent unable to do anything

and cannot be blocked by anything but using damage preventing skills or pots with very high cool down is outright ridiculous and balance breaking. whether bms or barbs are in need of an additional cc is imo not the main issue here. but the fact that players should be able to prevent or break this "stun" with regular anti-stun measures!

freygin

So, how long is it until any BM get this skill ? Can't wait to see how OP this skill is.

Kniraven - Lost City

This is pointless and stupid...
It's the exact same group of people that were defending Purify when everyone else said it was OP now claiming that this is too OP.
Pot vs Kettle ****.

I'm done with this topic.
I approve of the new stun and seriously doubt this game breaking junk.
Have a good day guys.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

makes me glad some of you guys arent developers >.> half the time seeing OP pple complaining other classes becoming a threat

MystieMoon - Dreamweaver

Well not really a threat. Just slightly more annoying. We can't have any of that now can we xD

opkossy

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

makes me glad some of you guys arent developers >.> half the time seeing OP pple complaining other classes becoming a threat

I should be a dev. And an exec!

We'd have LOTS of fun, then. b:sin

eraldus

It's aways like that...whenever a class gets a new skill/feature, everybody that doesn't play with said class will complain that it's OP, untill somebody comes up with a strategy to counter said OP skill.

People overreact too quickly.

opkossy

eraldus wrote: »

It's aways like that...whenever a class gets a new skill/feature, everybody that doesn't play with said class will complain that it's OP, untill somebody comes up with a strategy to counter said OP skill.

People overreact too quickly.

What about people like me who play all classes and felt venos being able to send a pet to kill 90% of a server while doing nothing was stupid (though also admitted that if we were to ever get to a point where TT90 and +8-10 gears became widespread the bird would no longer be an issue and venos would actually be at a disadvantage), agreed APS was OP when it ruled everything, argued against purify spell in several scenarios even as someone who has access to it, and feel the Barb version of this new "I can only immune to counter" stun is a bit excessive for all the pros it has with the lack of cons?


Yes, there's that group that will always claim any new thing is overpowered because they don't get it, but sometimes there are occasionally valid concerns among QQfests.

eraldus

OPKossy wrote: »

What about people like me who play all classes and felt venos being able to send a pet to kill 90% of a server while doing nothing was stupid (though also admitted that if we were to ever get to a point where TT90 and +8-10 gears became widespread the bird would no longer be an issue and venos would actually be at a disadvantage), agreed APS was OP when it ruled everything, argued against purify spell in several scenarios even as someone who has access to it, and feel the Barb version of this new "I can only immune to counter" stun is a bit excessive for all the pros it has with the lack of cons?


Yes, there's that group that will always claim any new thing is overpowered because they don't get it, but sometimes there are occasionally valid concerns among QQfests.

Those were different scenarios, but yeah, I agree that some (very few btw) people make some valid points, but then again, it's too early to say it's too OP and game-breaking. People used to say sins were unbeatable on PVP when the tideborn race was released here on the first months, but now you don't see people saying that they are impossible to defeat or too hard to kill. When the Earthguard came along, it happened again, with people saying they were too OP too, that seekers would make wizzies useless and mystics would substitute venos and clerics. Then we got that new update on Abba and Seat, where people said the new bosses where impossible to kill and only c$pers would be abble to handle them.

People should wait a bit, try new strategies (that's what pvp/pk/mass pvp is about), and then make a real conclusion if it's game breaking or not.

opkossy

I do pretty much agree with your post.... though this particular part made me giggle in memories.

eraldus wrote: »

People used to say sins were unbeatable on PVP when the tideborn race was released here on the first months, but now you don't see people saying that they are impossible to defeat or too hard to kill.

Mostly because it \eventually got to the point that Sins were the easy part but Psys were the pains because nobody played them so we didn't have a clue wtf half their skills did or how to appropriately counter them. b:chuckle

Desdi - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

What about people like me who play all classes and felt venos being able to send a pet to kill 90% of a server while doing nothing was stupid (though also admitted that if we were to ever get to a point where TT90 and +8-10 gears became widespread the bird would no longer be an issue and venos would actually be at a disadvantage), agreed APS was OP when it ruled everything, argued against purify spell in several scenarios even as someone who has access to it, and feel the Barb version of this new "I can only immune to counter" stun is a bit excessive for all the pros it has with the lack of cons?


Yes, there's that group that will always claim any new thing is overpowered because they don't get it, but sometimes there are occasionally valid concerns among QQfests.

Take my +1.

_blood_rain - Sanctuary

eraldus wrote: »

Those were different scenarios, but yeah, I agree that some (very few btw) people make some valid points, but then again, it's too early to say it's too OP and game-breaking. People used to say sins were unbeatable on PVP when the tideborn race was released here on the first months, but now you don't see people saying that they are impossible to defeat or too hard to kill.

People should wait a bit, test new strategies (taht's what pvp/pk/mass pvp is about), and then make a real conclusion if it's game breaking or not.

Why do you think people don't say that about sins anymore? It's not because we just suddenly realized that sins were perfectly balanced and A-Okay. It's because new skills to combat them were released, new apoth, and gear was upgraded to the point where 5.0 became outdated.
Things had to be changed .

And I think it's the same now. It doesnt take a genius to see that a near spammable go-through-all stun is broken.

eraldus

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why do you think people don't say that about sins anymore? It's not because we just suddenly realized that sins were perfectly balanced and A-Okay. It's because new skills to combat them were released, new apoth, and gear was upgraded to the point where 5.0 became outdated.
Things had to be changed .

And I think it's the same now. It doesnt take a genius to see that a near spammable go-through-all stun is broken.

Sigh... And it doesn't take a genius to see that you guys are overreacting... Again, take some time to come up with a strategy to counter it, eventually you guys will able to handle it. Strategy is the key factor in any PVP scenario, plus if you're talking about mass pvp and you're travelling alone in the battlefield, then chances are that you're gonna have a really hard time dealing with pretty much anyone, unless your gear is extremely refined/sharded.

Also, about bms having the same stun effect, it's not even 100% confirmed that the new skill can do the same effect as of the barbs, except by a skill description that could be pretty much wrong and mistranslated, since no BM can learn it yet.

You guys are flipping the table too early.

Adroit - Lost City

eraldus wrote: »

Sigh... Again, take some time to come up with a strategy to counter it, eventually you guys will able to handle it.

You guys are flipping the table too early.

I think the complaint is that there is no counter.. you could be the chuck norris of pwi and play perfectly and still have absolutely no options to deal with this.

eraldus

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I think the complaint is that there is no counter.. you could be the chuck norris of pwi and play perfectly and still have absolutely no options to deal with this.

From what I heard, this new stun effect from the new mighty swing doesn't happen 100% of the time, so I take that the people here are actually worried about the BM new skill, which according to the description provided by Asty, it causes the same paralize effect, right?

But since that skill requires 60 primordial bloods to learn, there isn't any BM that has learned this skill yet, so we have to wait and see if this new skill can cause the same paralize effect from mighty swing, as it can be a mistranslated description...unless somebody actually saw this skill somewhere and can confirm this for me?

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

OPKossy wrote: »

What about people like me who play all classes and felt venos being able to send a pet to kill 90% of a server while doing nothing was stupid (though also admitted that if we were to ever get to a point where TT90 and +8-10 gears became widespread the bird would no longer be an issue and venos would actually be at a disadvantage), agreed APS was OP when it ruled everything, argued against purify spell in several scenarios even as someone who has access to it, and feel the Barb version of this new "I can only immune to counter" stun is a bit excessive for all the pros it has with the lack of cons?


Yes, there's that group that will always claim any new thing is overpowered because they don't get it, but sometimes there are occasionally valid concerns among QQfests.

tell me you found a point in time where seekers had golden days b:sad

Flash_man - Lost City

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

tell me you found a point in time where seekers had golden days b:sad

when they got sacrificial slash with r8r to reduce anybody's def lvl to 0 or negative def lvl and could zerk on mag attacks b:laugh

Adroit - Lost City

eraldus wrote: »

From what I heard, this new stun effect from the new mighty swing doesn't happen 100% of the time, so I take that the people here are actually worried about the BM new skill, which according to the description provided by Asty, it causes the same paralize effect, right?

But since that skill requires 60 primordial bloods to learn, there isn't any BM that has learned this skill yet, so we have to wait and see if this new skill can cause the same paralize effect from mighty swing, as it can be a mistranslated description...unless somebody actually saw this skill somewhere and can confirm this for me?

Well people are worried about both.. although the BM skill is just speculation as you've said. I don't really think you can just discount barb mighty swing just because it has a chance to work though.. just in the same way as you wouldn't just ignore tidal simply because it doesn't work 100% of the time.

Man - Raging Tide

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I think the complaint is that there is no counter.. you could be the chuck norris of pwi and play perfectly and still have absolutely no options to deal with this.

Because you cannot kite barbs >.>

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Man - Raging Tide wrote: »

Because you cannot kite barbs >.>

rule of OP pple: never move from spot.

didnt u know that b:pleased

eraldus

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Well people are worried about both.. although the BM skill is just speculation as you've said. I don't really think you can just discount barb mighty swing just because it has a chance to work though.. just in the same way as you wouldn't just ignore tidal simply because it doesn't work 100% of the time.

Yeah, I know. I didn't meant to discount it, I was pointing that there is 50/50 chance for it to succeed/fail

XxWilxX - Heavens Tear

eraldus wrote: »

Yeah, I know. I didn't meant to discount it, I was pointing that there is 50/50 chance for it to succeed/fail

60% for demon

eraldus

XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »

60% for demon

True.

I forgot about that tiny detail >.<

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Well people are worried about both.. although the BM skill is just speculation as you've said. I don't really think you can just discount barb mighty swing just because it has a chance to work though.. just in the same way as you wouldn't just ignore tidal simply because it doesn't work 100% of the time.

Hmm it sounds like you could apply that 'logic' towards undergeared players... they are very much part of the player base as the oped/'equaled' geared players. (in other words you shouldn't discount undergeared players when talking about balance as a whole... but aye the same can easily be said about undergeared players ignoring how badass certain classes become in end game gear.) Though honestly I have said time and time again I don't want to become such a badass that I am the one soloing 20 ppl... but still I am of the opinion that early end game play on a bm leaves a lot to be desired, and there are more bm's quitting the class (IMHO) than there is/are of bm's actually sticking through and getting full r93r josd +12 armor/weapon. - Though again that is just an opinion, obviously others feel differently but it is what I have noticed.





---

Still I do agree that the barb stun/immobilize skill is quite uber/ridiculous. Especially when you factor in the cooldown/back up on that skill, the shields of a barb and even the barbs insanely large hp pool.

ablabahabla

eraldus wrote: »

Chane is 60% for demon.
True.

I forgot about that tiny detail >.<

but as long as the skill dosent miss u at lest get paralized what u can't remove either so it's a 100% lock down skill.
and with it being spamable and unblockable hf if u got some barb with occult ice genie and that skill or even worse a bm without the new skills and a barb with that skill, imma say gl on getting out of the stun lock since the bm only has to stun u for a sec every 5 sec so the barb can use the new stun. This is makeing Barbs the masters of stunlocking. Even without backup, serverlag will cause u to be unable to get away since 1sec is nothing and the barb will get u stun while u run away.

eraldus

ablabahabla wrote: »

but as long as the skill dosent miss u at lest get paralized what u can't remove either so it's a 100% lock down skill.
and with it being spamable and unblockable hf if u got some barb with occult ice genie and that skill or even worse a bm without the new skills and a barb with that skill, imma say gl on getting out of the stun lock since the bm only has to stun u for a sec every 5 sec so the barb can use the new stun. This is makeing Barbs the masters of stunlocking. Even without backup, serverlag will cause u to be unable to get away since 1sec is nothing and the barb will get u stun while u run away.

1) It's not even 100% confirmed that the BM skill can cause the same paralize effect. People are just assumpting it via a skill description which can be wrong.

2) Kite FTW?

3) Never travel alone on mass PVP. Unless you wanna get facerolled.

ACutAbove - Archosaur

I don't think it's that bad. A mystic's knock back skill can not be countered with antistun either and it also disables you for a short period. I see it as pretty much the same thing... It's more annoying than it is game breaking.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

ACutAbove - Archosaur wrote: »

I don't think it's that bad. A mystic's knock back skill can not be countered with antistun either and it also disables you for a short period. I see it as pretty much the same thing... It's more annoying than it is game breaking.

B.Tornado costs chi and has a greater cooldown than this Mighty Swing. Those two are barely comparable.