New "stun" skill effect

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  • freygin
    freygin Posts: 737 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Now that the discussion has reached 22 pages so far, who has already tried fighting a bm that already gotten this new stun skill or an experience using this skill by a bm himself/herself. This skill is not aoe, it costs 1 spark, it's OP for sure, but is this skill really that OP ? and since this skill has a 15s cd and costs 1 spark, can a bm gain back 1 spark in 15s ?

    or a barb, barb also has the new stun effect
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    freygin wrote: »
    Now that the discussion has reached 22 pages so far, who has already tried fighting a bm that already gotten this new stun skill or an experience using this skill by a bm himself/herself. This skill is not aoe, it costs 1 spark, it's OP for sure, but is this skill really that OP ? and since this skill has a 15s cd and costs 1 spark, can a bm gain back 1 spark in 15s ?

    No one has this yet or will for probably about a month still. It's a lot of bloods and requires a page you need Magical Sky VI for, I think.
    or a barb, barb also has the new stun effect

    Fought vs. one, but gear not that great. Was basically helping to stunlock me for his squad in NW.
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  • eraldus
    eraldus Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    freygin wrote: »
    Now that the discussion has reached 22 pages so far, who has already tried fighting a bm that already gotten this new stun skill or an experience using this skill by a bm himself/herself. This skill is not aoe, it costs 1 spark, it's OP for sure, but is this skill really that OP ? and since this skill has a 15s cd and costs 1 spark, can a bm gain back 1 spark in 15s ?

    or a barb, barb also has the new stun effect

    A sage bm can (and a demon bm probably could too).

    Tiger Leap: 3 secs cooldown and can grant you 20 Chi per cast.

    Master Lee's technique: You know it. (use it during the paralize effect? Why not zoidberg?)

    Sworded Star Smite: grants a whooping 50 Chi.
  • Marengo - Lost City
    Marengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Hafnium - Lost City wrote: »
    For accuracy....
    Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »
    Sorry Marengo but you're completely wrong on this particular part.
    There is no BM that would ever stat minimum dex. If they did they'd be a joke.
    Most go 180-200 dex even if they never touch any weapon but axes.
    At minimum dex even w/ 2 accuracy rings they'd have 1,100 accuracy.
    They'd miss on caster classes regularly let alone 700-800 dex Archers/Assassins.
    I don't know many details about modern BMs I admit (played one long ago), but exactly 200 dex is not a gear requirement anyway. Besides you get accuracy, evasion and crit rate (which affects your zc rate in its turn) for it, while mages can get only crit.
    As for all those multipliers you post all the time, game formulas are a bit more complicated than "if you do x2 damage, I should do x2 as well". BMs have almost twice more hp in comparison to a casters, to begin with. There are also a lot of peculiarities which should be taken into account when you reason about other classes' damage.
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  • ablabahabla
    ablabahabla Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    ^ Exactly why I have stopped replying to the troll (despite the fact that I have things I could easily rebut in his posts... I am still refusing to reply to him) .... feed the troll and you just may get bitten. :X

    Anyways kidding (last 9 words) aside.

    EDIT: His rudeness/feeling like he has to belittle others and their play style is quite... ****..gy (Wow why isnt that word filtered.. I feel I should star it out roflmao). Aka he's being a tool/troll.

    I am done replying to this thread at least for now, but I will likely still keep following this thread until it either dies off/or gets closed for too much flaming/off topicness.
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I'm all of the above do I win a cookie!? :D

    (No I do not feel I fit all of that to a T.. especially the second one... really none of the second 'fit' me... that line is just meant as a joke)
    Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    *backs away slowly I may have misnterpreted that.* b:avoid

    so whos the troll? thought u wont answer this thread anymore.
    all i am saying is u definitly have no idea of anything and my point gets proofed by your posts which sonsist of pure QQ. As i told u on the lc forums already u should stick to your seeker if u cant hanlde the bm.
    And the funniest thing is u rage so much when someone only shows u how bad u are as a bm. Honestly pls stop playing a bm and reroll a faceroll class maybe u should roll sin so u can have faceroll mode for 60sec every 90sec.
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Marengo - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't know many details about modern BMs I admit (played one long ago), but exactly 200 dex is not a gear requirement anyway. Besides you get accuracy, evasion and crit rate (which affects your zc rate in its turn) for it, while mages can get only crit.
    As for all those multipliers you post all the time, game formulas are a bit more complicated than "if you do x2 damage, I should do x2 as well". BMs have almost twice more hp in comparison to a casters, to begin with. There are also a lot of peculiarities which should be taken into account when you reason about other classes' damage.

    And yet again unlike casters, BM's can miss. Casters have no excuse to not seek better defense with skills that dont miss, ranged attacks, and the ability to stat nothing into the stat they dont use for damage. The least some could do is stat 80-84 str the wear LA helm and cape which gives 2x as much HP. The whole piont is casters in general have gained too much power damage wise to rational an excuse for purify. R9.3 even worsened this with the nice chunks of pdef casters got without refines. And once again, there are several pdef buffs.

    Crit can is a % chance, the ability to miss your attacks LOWERS that % chance. There's a reason mages only get crit, they would be able to 1 shot anyone if they got zerk.

    Lastly, 200 dex isnt a gear requirement, it's a requirement if you dont want to waste your cd's by missing skills constantly. Casters dont have that problem.

    I can't wait until someone actuallt has this new BM skill anyway.
  • aetje
    aetje Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »
    does anyone feel that is kind of game breaking?
    Do I smell a Sinny crying that their status evasion skill isn't a "get out of a band free card" anymore? BMs and Barbs in PvP tend to get the short end of the stick in terms of damage...

    That said, with unbreakable stuns, a coordinated stunlock can completely disable a player until either the charm runs out or the player is dead. Which is bound to cause crocodile tears at the high end players who had thought to have bought their invulnerability...
  • Marengo - Lost City
    Marengo - Lost City Posts: 771 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    And yet again unlike casters, BM's can miss.
    Not on casters... *sighs*
    The whole point is casters in general have gained too much power damage wise to rational an excuse for purify.
    *Looking for her great power damage* Seems like I miss some OP skill which should give me "too much power damage" b:sad
    R9.3 even worsened this with the nice chunks of pdef casters got without refines.
    Without refines they are soloable by unevolved veno nix.
    Crit can is a % chance, the ability to miss your attacks LOWERS that % chance.
    Again, not on casters. In most cases you will not miss. And even if you do it will not lower your chance for crit significantly.
    There's a reason mages only get crit, they would be able to 1 shot anyone if they got zerk.
    Physical damagers are able to 1shot casters with zerc crit. And casters only would b:laugh
    I can't wait until someone actuallt has this new BM skill anyway.
    I see you ingnored my comment about foxform stunlocks b:chuckle
    And where are your suggestions about "weaps variety" you claimed I have? :D
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  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Marengo - Lost City wrote: »
    Not on casters... *sighs*

    *Looking for her great power damage* Seems like I miss some OP skill which should give me "too much power damage" b:sad

    Without refines they are soloable by unevolved veno nix.

    Again, not on casters. In most cases you will not miss. And even if you do it will not lower your chance for crit significantly.

    Physical damagers are able to 1shot casters with zerc crit. And casters only would b:laugh

    I see you ingnored my comment about foxform stunlocks b:chuckle
    And where are your suggestions about "weaps variety" you claimed I have? :D

    The only reason Blademasters & Barbs rarely miss is because we are statted to be able to occasionally hit archers and sins which we miss constantly on (800 dex vs 200 + both having a kind of evasion buff)

    But, if i were to give up 3/4 my skill trees, and star the 55 dex minimum to go pure strength and then focus only on ever fighting arcane classes i would still frequently miss. I mean hell, i have 200 dex and miss on bosses pretty often as is but let's explain it mathematically (from end game perspective as insisted by many here)

    If i statted to 55 dex and 800ish strength,
    I would have at the very most only ten dex more than an end game caster.

    They'd have 900% wep dmg, id have 633%.
    I would miss frequently, they would not.
    They'd have a range advantage.
    They'd have purify proc.
    We'd have similar crit rate.
    I'd have higher hp.
    I'd have zerk.

    If full buffed, they'd have superior defense stats.

    (note: end game aa would get 45 dex from tome. This would provide them equal crit & similar evasion.)
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  • junesoo
    junesoo Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »
    The only reason Blademasters & Barbs rarely miss is because we are statted to be able to occasionally hit archers and sins which we miss constantly on (800 dex vs 200 + both having a kind of evasion buff)

    But, if i were to give up 3/4 my skill trees, and star the 55 dex minimum to go pure strength and then focus only on ever fighting arcane classes i would still frequently miss. I mean hell, i have 200 dex and miss on bosses pretty often as is but let's explain it mathematically (from end game perspective as insisted by many here)

    If i statted to 55 dex and 800ish strength,
    I would have at the very most only ten dex more than an end game caster.

    They'd have 900% wep dmg, id have 633%.
    I would miss frequently, they would not.
    They'd have a range advantage.
    They'd have purify proc.
    We'd have similar crit rate.
    I'd have higher hp.
    I'd have zerk.

    If full buffed, they'd have superior defense stats.

    (note: end game aa would get 45 dex from tome. This would provide them equal crit & similar evasion.)

    Similar? For every dex. attribute, BMs get 50 evasion and 50 accuracy. While Venomancers get 30 evasion and 25 accuracy and other casters only get 10 evasion and 25 accuracy.
  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    junesoo wrote: »
    Similar? For every dex. attribute, BMs get 50 evasion and 50 accuracy. While Venomancers get 30 evasion and 25 accuracy and other casters only get 10 evasion and 25 accuracy.

    What does that have to do with me saying they'd have similar crit? Did i say similar in another sentence?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • opkossy
    opkossy Posts: 11,177 Community Moderator
    edited December 2013
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    junesoo wrote: »
    Similar? For every dex. attribute, BMs get 50 evasion and 50 accuracy. While Venomancers get 30 evasion and 25 accuracy and other casters only get 10 evasion and 25 accuracy.

    ..... I'm sorry what?

    Where did you pull those numbers from? Because I'm pretty sure my BMs don't have 10k base accuracy/evasion.
    (Insert fancy image here)
    image
  • Kniraven - Lost City
    Kniraven - Lost City Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    OPKossy wrote: »
    ..... I'm sorry what?

    Where did you pull those numbers from? Because I'm pretty sure my BMs don't have 10k base accuracy/evasion.

    +1

    /10char
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  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    junesoo wrote: »
    Similar? For every dex. attribute, BMs get 50 evasion and 50 accuracy. While Venomancers get 30 evasion and 25 accuracy and other casters only get 10 evasion and 25 accuracy.

    Are you saying that, because BM gets "50 evasion", the casters are going to MISS on him?

    b:bye
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    yesterday in nws i've experienced 2 barbs chaining this skill on me...

    i could not even walk 1 step away...

    this new mighty swing skill (therefore this new paralyze debuff) is game-breaking borderline OP
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  • WenSon - Harshlands
    WenSon - Harshlands Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Mooooooooo - Lost City wrote: »
    so barbs have gotten a stun effect from their upgraded skill that cannot be prevented by anti stun, foritfy, or be purified/badged.

    It's likely that bm's drake bash upgrade will also be the same effect since the description is similar.

    does anyone feel that is kind of game breaking? especially if it is true for bm's stun. (barbs fine since they had not much cc before and the stun is not 100%). They basically added something that overrides all the previous game mechanics. Antistun: avoid all movement debuffs? nope.

    thoughts?

    game breaking ????

    here r my thoughts. ur stupid.

    look at what bms have and what they can do. they finally get a stun, that people cant evade. especially the r9rr casters

    bm r supposed to support but they r like paper vs all these casters. whenever i wanna do anything in tw, i need to use ironguard, after this, i am 90% of the times dead... oh and i am full r9rr and i am not bad.
    and how do u expect bms to support when everyone is immune ?

    playing bm in pvp is so frustrating. u cant kill anyone, if he knows how to play (considering he has same gear like r9rr too. i dont talk about lower geared people) and u get easy killed by most classes.
    all other classes, even the support classes have the chance to kill.


    and look at the dmg increase on the new skills for all class. they get 2 or even 3 times more dmg.
    while the new skills for bms get only minor dmg increase, especially the demon versions.
    please compare the power increase for all classes and now come back and say this new paralyze effect is broken for bms
  • KuruTu - Harshlands
    KuruTu - Harshlands Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    There's no point to discuss BM's new skill if many people here still claim that BM is underpowered class b:surrender People QQing about purify talk like it procs every hit or makes casters immune to dmg automatically lulz.
    Barb stun would be acceptable since they don't have much CC, if it had longer cooldown and costed chi at least. They are able to spam it (especially if sage) and that makes that skill really ****.
  • eraldus
    eraldus Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    yesterday in nws i've experienced 2 barbs chaining this skill on me...

    i could not even walk 1 step away...

    this new mighty swing skill (therefore this new paralyze debuff) is game-breaking borderline OP


    If you're traveling alone on NWs/TWs, then you deserve to be facerolled/tea bagged to hell and back.


    Seriously, don't you guys know what teamwork is?


    I bet you're one of those R999 players that enters NWs with the thought "Let's see how many I can one shot today with my sweet R999 +12 ubber wep..."


    Mass PVP requires teamwork to win, not just insta-kill OP gear alone. b:bye
  • Vedovis - Lost City
    Vedovis - Lost City Posts: 942 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    KuruTu - Harshlands wrote: »
    There's no point to discuss BM's new skill if many people here still claim that BM is underpowered class b:surrender People QQing about purify talk like it procs every hit or makes casters immune to dmg automatically lulz.
    Barb stun would be acceptable since they don't have much CC, if it had longer cooldown and costed chi at least. They are able to spam it (especially if sage) and that makes that skill really ****.

    agreed. most people are going away from the purpose of this thread and QQing over their class. Don't like your class damage? Switch classes, or deal w/ it. Crying about it accomplishes nothing and makes them look pathetic :D Let's focus on stuntalk, please?
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  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    eraldus wrote: »
    If you're traveling alone on NWs/TWs, then you deserve to be facerolled/tea bagged to hell and back.


    Seriously, don't you guys know what teamwork is?


    I bet you're one of those R999 players that enters NWs with the thought "Let's see how many I can one shot today with my sweet R999 +12 ubber wep..."


    Mass PVP requires teamwork to win, not just insta-kill OP gear alone. b:bye

    that fail flame attempt...

    first time one of those 2 barbs missed i leaped ig and wiped the whole team.

    tho if your apothecary is on cooldown you just die...

    this is almost as broken as sage tidal, sage tidal has no counters, this skill has IG as only counter, while r9r3 caster nukes w.e. have plenty of counters.

    enough said
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  • eraldus
    eraldus Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    that fail flame attempt...

    first time one of those 2 barbs missed i leaped ig and wiped the whole team.

    tho if your apothecary is on cooldown you just die...

    this is almost as broken as sage tidal, sage tidal has no counters, this skill has IG as only counter, while r9r3 caster nukes w.e. have plenty of counters.

    enough said

    I wasn't flamming you... I was saying that mass pvp = strategy to win.


    If you travel alone, you're asking to get owned yourself. If I were at your side, I would try to stun these barbs or something, to buy time so that you could move away and try to counterattack.


    These skills aren't OP... you just need to be careful to not be alone, and no one will stunlock you or whatever.
  • Deceptistar - Sanctuary
    Deceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    yesterday in nws i've experienced 2 barbs chaining this skill on me...

    i could not even walk 1 step away...

    this new mighty swing skill (therefore this new paralyze debuff) is game-breaking borderline OP
    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    first time one of those 2 barbs missed i leaped ig and wiped the whole team.
    You fit this QQ description b:cute

    QQ 1:
    "QQ I use to pwn other classes fairly easily. They now upgraded other classes and the threats to me have increased. Therefore they are OP and need to be nerfed back, back to the days I pwn/kite them easily."
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    ★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan
  • DionDagger - Dreamweaver
    DionDagger - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,140 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »
    this is almost as broken as sage tidal, sage tidal has no counters,

    Lol you must be bad. If you keep trying debuffs on a sin and get 1/3, how does it have no counters? You wanna know what has no counters? Spark+bladetempest combo from a r9rr+12 wizard. Not even a mag def charm is gonna save you from that shet.
  • Shadowfire - Dreamweaver
    Shadowfire - Dreamweaver Posts: 356 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    You wanna know what has no counters? Spark+bladetempest combo from a r9rr+12 wizard. Not even a mag def charm is gonna save you from that shet.

    Lol? Knife throw to interrupt the channel, AD to completely resist it, Apothecary items to resist damage, telestun to prevent channeling if the wizard hasn't used an immune to stun...
  • XXHotXx - Morai
    XXHotXx - Morai Posts: 1,246 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Shadowfire - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Lol? Knife throw to interrupt the channel, AD to completely resist it, Apothecary items to resist damage, telestun to prevent channeling if the wizard hasn't used an immune to stun...

    and soul of fire, stealth, deaden nerves, kite away

    also trying spark on sage tidal?

    no DionDagger, YOU must be bad :x and also a noob seen that you are comparing a passive OP broken buff with a 2 spark aoe nuke that doesnt make any sense
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  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »
    A wizzy and a seeker complaining about a barb and BM skill. Sounds like a good thing.

    I agree, and also lol at the others. f:hehe
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  • Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver
    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver Posts: 441 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    b:surrender not gonna bother trying to add to this qq/class comparison fest, but something to say about the barb Knock down spam. Sin and seeker (maybe bm) seem to be the classes able to counter that lockdown, mostly because of their fast stun/seal that can be used ot break the lock in a 1 second window while also having good mobility to kite and a chance to avoid it (tidal protection and sage blade affinity). Psya nd cleric could have a moderate chance to counter it with their CC.
    Ebrithalia -Sage Seeker
  • XxWilxX - Heavens Tear
    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear Posts: 202 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    b:surrender not gonna bother trying to add to this qq/class comparison fest, but something to say about the barb Knock down spam. Sin and seeker (maybe bm) seem to be the classes able to counter that lockdown, mostly because of their fast stun/seal that can be used ot break the lock in a 1 second window while also having good mobility to kite and a chance to avoid it (tidal protection and sage blade affinity). Psya nd cleric could have a moderate chance to counter it with their CC.

    Purify from R8R or R9Rr... isnt that enough? How OP that proc actually is?
    Psy can also use the immune to phys damage skill, wich makes Mighty Swing not deal any damage/stun effect either...

    A cleric that has ENOUGH disables to keep a barb at distance...
  • Lolgasmic - Raging Tide
    Lolgasmic - Raging Tide Posts: 1,315 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Purify from R8R or R9Rr... isnt that enough? How OP that proc actually is?
    Psy can also use the immune to phys damage skill, wich makes Mighty Swing not deal any damage/stun effect either...

    A cleric that has ENOUGH disables to keep a barb at distance...

    Poison Fang hits through Physical Immunity.

    Will stun.
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  • Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver
    Ebrithalia - Dreamweaver Posts: 441 Arc User
    edited December 2013
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    XxWilxX - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Purify from R8R or R9Rr... isnt that enough? How OP that proc actually is?
    Psy can also use the immune to phys damage skill, wich makes Mighty Swing not deal any damage/stun effect either...

    A cleric that has ENOUGH disables to keep a barb at distance...

    b:shutup ya skipped some parts of this thread, it ignore purify proc, though, im assumign poison fang would make the debuff stick even through psy will.....
    Ebrithalia -Sage Seeker

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