New "stun" skill effect

Crazybladema - Harshlands

_blood_rain - Sanctuary wrote: »

Purify shafted everything non-caster. I'm for a fix to it to, but a "fix" that ruins everything else is not really a fix at all.

This new stun is the same as purify. Purify was introduced as a way to fix the damage done by stupid OP sins, but it was a massive overcompensation.
This end-all, bypass-all stun is an overcompensation to fix the damage done by purify. The cycle can only keep going as the next stupid new "fix" completely overpowers the previous. We need a real solution, not this BS

Heh, I actually agree with you. I would hold my breath though on a fix. I really hope they do though. I would like to see many fixes to the game. As well as a proper balance between toons.

Vedovis - Lost City

ablabahabla wrote: »

u are a sage bm and prolly the joke of all cs bms on lc server nuff' said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvP0Uf1Fr9c



hmm some lc bm that has never been seen by anyone talking? ragequit much and rerolled a sin? b:surrender

that video was the best xmas gift anyone could have given me ever /dies laughing

freygin

Purify is ok I guess if it doesn't proc that much, it needs to be lowered or only happens when hp is like 10% or something. I believe even casters would agree that purify is op.b:laugh

With morai skills, I think all classes except cleric had been given something to counter sins, with purify on r9rrr it became abundant for casters.

Seems like once the devs give a class something OP at disposal, they won't remove or nerf it, instead they invent something else to counter it, which might lead to something else.

If they want to add something different, they should add new icon to this stun skill so we'll see it as a new thing, using the existing stun icon but with different mechanic is really broken, they should give a new name to it like OPstun or something and use different color for the icon.

Hope they come up with something OP in future update for other classes as well such as OPsleep for cleric which will not be awaken by first hit after being slept. b:victory

ablabahabla

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

that video was the best xmas gift anyone could have given me ever /dies laughing

b:laugh ikr idk why he QQs about purify lol when he cant even stunlock at all! occult ice and aps with his r9rr even after the occult effect is over so ridicoulus. too bad i havent found any vids of those other QQ bms by now but i can imagine they all just as bad.

Marengo - Lost City

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

you happen to rear your head in forums I visit, even ones where a blademaster is unwelcome.

They are not unwelcome f:stare You don't need to create a char of every class to take part is discussions in every forum section. What is unwelcome in veno's section is discussing other classes (though even this is acceptable in many cases, for comparison for example), but you are free to post whatever you want in every class section if it's not obvious offtopic.

freygin wrote: »

Purify is ok I guess if it doesn't proc that much, it needs to be lowered or only happens when hp is like 10% or something. I believe even casters would agree that purify is op.b:laugh

Casters disagreed, because new endgame gear forces you to use skills instead of aps. considering dex classes have 70%+ crit rate + all melee and even ranged seekers got zc on their weapons and their chance to zc is higher than a chance of a caster to crit, you catch half HP damage faster than PS procs. I didn't judge right after I got it, but playing with it for quite a while... sometimes I 1v1 for 15-20 min and it procs once or twice overall. Or doesn't proc at all.
It's only OP in a crowd of aps geared players and aps is not a threat for decently refined r9r in any case.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

considering dex classes have 70%+ crit rate + all melee and even ranged seekers got zc on their weapons and their chance to zc is higher than a chance of a caster to crit, you catch half HP damage faster than PS procs. I didn't judge right after I got it, but playing with it for quite a while... sometimes I 1v1 for 15-20 min and it procs once or twice overall. Or doesn't proc at all.
It's only OP in a crowd of aps geared players and aps is not a threat for decently refined r9r in any case.

Depends on the caster and the class. The chance of a zerk crit is about 16% on most sins. Casters have a similar crit rate, the does not account for the fact that a casters normal hit equals a melee toons crit, and a zerk crit is roughly equal to a casters crit. Caster still come out on top in this comparison, and the average damage per hit is still higher because of the uncertainty of zerk crits.

People complain about zerk but how about this. Take away zerk, and at the same time take away a caster's ability to crit. It's only fair.

Marengo - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Depends on the caster and the class.

Indeed. You are talking mostly about mages who spark before hitting with fire (sins evade that though). How about psychics who have neither purge nor spark-type debuff or venos, whose wep and additional skills damage can hardly scare anyone? Also didn't see any EP 1shotting ppl lately. Mystics are just rarest class on pvp, maybe they are good, but not well investigated and not many switched to mystic, preferring "guaranteed" pvp class.

The chance of a zerk crit is about 16% on most sins. Casters have a similar crit rate

Zc is x4 of normal damage. Besides that they do x2 damage most of the time. I do ~3-4k (crit!) on full buffed josd sin. Is is much? I'm full mag r9r+12 wep. No nw tome yet, but it will not double my damage.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

Indeed. You are talking mostly about mages who spark before hitting with fire (sins evade that though). How about psychics who have neither purge nor spark-type debuff or venos, whose wep and additional skills damage can hardly scare anyone? Also didn't see any EP 1shotting ppl lately. Mystics are just rarest class on pvp, maybe they are good, but not well investigated and not many switched to mystic, preferring "guaranteed" pvp class.


Zc is x4 of normal damage. Besides that they do x2 damage most of the time. I do ~3-4k (crit!) on full buffed josd sin. Is is much? I'm full mag r9r+12 wep. No nw tome yet, but it will not double my damage.

You compltely missed the comparison. A zerk crit for a sin=a casters crit. Are you saying that melee's should not do the same damage as casters considering that there is only 1 mdef buff and multiple pdef buffs? What about the fact that MAG as a stat is pretty much the ONLY thing caster have to stat if they have a Emperor tome? Or what about the 100 to 150 stat weapon mutiplier ratio where melee classes get shafted due to deminishing returns based on the rounding down of this value?

I made my suggestion on a way to make this new stun more balanced. As for the arguement about casters needing to be able to crit? There is none, because it's assinine. Veno's is a support DD, not a pure DD. You want them to have damage, but their lack of damage is made from their ability to pick apart their opponents defenses. If veno's want more damage, could you honestly say you would accept a nerf to your debuffs, for the sake of balance?

As for that sin, he probably has 40-50 attack levels on you and does the same damage. End game wise, you have to factor in a lot of thing you have not mention. The attacked used, your atk lv vs their def lv, their mdef, were you sparked or not, were they debuffed, whether or not the sin had an mdef charm up when your hit registered (pretty sure they did). Too many variables. If you constantly test your damage and i can have all the information, then we can come to a rational conclusion. Until then, I'll take it as another person upset that a sin didnt die from their attack.

Marengo - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You compltely missed the comparison. A zerk crit for a sin=a casters crit.

And you completely miss the point that not all casters hit equally hard. No, I wouldn't crit a sin like he can crit me. I have no josds in my gear, which are must-have nowdays, but even watching pvp vids I pay special attention to damage log and I see how hard they can hit, whom and under what buffs and debuffs, who dies faster and who slower, in what gear etc. Taking part in pvp I can roughly predict the result according to ppl in our squad and opponents' gear and number.

Veno's is a support DD, not a pure DD. You want them to have damage, but their lack of damage is made from their ability to pick apart their opponents defenses. If veno's want more damage, could you honestly say you would accept a nerf to your debuffs, for the sake of balance?

Like other classes don't have debuffs... Ours are kinda nerfed. Sins are nearly impossible to purge. Almost everyone has Faith on genie to resist debuffs and sometimes ping doesn't let you cancel channeling fast. Not talking about other classes having way more powerful debuffs which don't take ages to use.
Compare:
Longtime workaround turning into fox and back - 10 sec spent during which opponent 1) doesn't afk but counterattacks you knowing you won't kill him in foxform 2) his charm ticks and you have to start over
and
Instantly used powerful debuff while casting your skill, purge for which you don't need to stop attack or come close, x4 damage with which you don't really need to debuff.

As for that sin, he probably has 40-50 attack levels on you and does the same damage. End game wise, you have to factor in a lot of thing you have not mention. The attacked used, your atk lv vs their def lv, their mdef, were you sparked or not, were they debuffed, whether or not the sin had an mdef charm up when your hit registered (pretty sure they did). Too many variables. If you constantly test your damage and i can have all the information, then we can come to a rational conclusion. Until then, I'll take it as another person upset that a sin didnt die from their attack.

I have quite clear picture of what I can do I don't QQ as you may think, just saying - don't compare different classes even if they are all casters. Same bonus can also affect us all differently.
BM also wasn't originally claimed as pure DD, but support mass stunner, speaking of class roles. Why is there so many fuss about dealing "low damage" then?

Crazybladema - Harshlands

Well if purify is ok, then I guess stuns it can't block is ok too. Since it's not aps and using skills. Is that what your saying?

Marengo - Lost City

Crazybladema - Harshlands wrote: »

Well if purify is ok, then I guess stuns it can't block is ok too. Since it's not aps and using skills. Is that what your saying?

What's the point of having purify then? Or any other antistun apo? Count classes who don't have purify and don't forget yourself, unable to immune such kind of CC.
If purify is that useless encountering newest game modifications, casters need another wep skill upgrade. How about reflecting physical damage equal to let's say your SF with the same chance to proc as PS? b:laugh

innocencex

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

What's the point of having purify then?

I have to wonder what exactly what the point or intention behind purify in the first place. It does more than simply give a caster a chance to break out of a stun or any other movement debuff as it also "purifies" most debuffs that was place on them.

Sure it's not 100% and there are unlucky times when relying on that would cost a caster their life, but do people still ignore how that weapon-add effectively removes skill from the game? Because quite simply an attacker could lay down a strong combo with debuffs and have it all undone by a % chance, not anything the caster actually did skill or knowledge-wise. Same also goes from the casters perspective as the proc becomes something to rely on, even if only a little in evenly geared fights it has affected the skill to use genie and apoth to break out of CC and debuffs.

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

If purify is that useless encountering newest game modifications, casters need another wep skill upgrade. How about reflecting physical damage equal to let's say your SF with the same chance to proc as PS? b:laugh

Only if melee can have exactly the same but reflects magic damage.

Either weapon-add would be more than ridiculous.

Kniraven - Lost City

ablabahabla wrote: »

u are a sage bm and prolly the joke of all cs bms on lc server nuff' said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvP0Uf1Fr9c

Vedovis - Lost City wrote: »

that video was the best xmas gift anyone could have given me ever /dies laughing

He doesn't kill a single person in any of the pvp scenes.
Not even 1.
Watch his damage log.

He just showed some footage of people dying while he happens to have them targeted, in some cases he doesn't hit them even once (not even with a cc skill. He just happens to have them targeted).

There are no full pvp scenes, and he has numbers in every single one of the clips.

Even in the 1v1 (which there were 6 of), he doesn't show the fight. He cuts out the majority of the 1v1 then shows one of the clips I die.

If you think that's an impressive video, that's just sad.

R9.3 +10 BM w/ immac hp shards & g14 neck + cv ring
VS.
R9.3 +12 BM w/ JoSD & NW Ornaments

A pvp vid should include full scenes, show what you're actually doing and in what ways you contributed (especially for a support class). It should include your deaths and your derp moments. where you f-cked up.

Knights vs Zodian (and a couple Insurrect) PvP

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am so tired of hearing this false ****. SINS HAVE THE LOWEST DAMAGE RANGE OF ANY CLASS IN GAME!

If you dont believe me, go do a calc on pure dex and pure str r9rr +12 bm and sin.

You said this^

In reply to me saying Blademasters have the lowest damage at end game.

Yeah, you're right. I could go full strength w/ just the 55 dexterity to wield my R9 axes & 2 +50% accuracy rings. I'd have a total of 1,100 accuracy and would give up 3/4 of my skill trees (which also just got new content).

How well do you think that would work out?

You know, nobody is stopping you as a sin from just wielding a bow 24/7 either.
It would be stupid, but you'd have higher attack and that's your argument right?

Marengo - Lost City

innocencex wrote: »

I have to wonder what exactly what the point or intention behind purify in the first place. It does more than simply give a caster a chance to break out of a stun or any other movement debuff as it also "purifies" most debuffs that was place on them.

Sure it's not 100% and there are unlucky times when relying on that would cost a caster their life, but do people still ignore how that weapon-add effectively removes skill from the game?

I'll quote myself:

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

sometimes I 1v1 for 15-20 min and it procs once or twice overall. Or doesn't proc at all.

Anyway we had a long discussion about purify before and eventually found out that the root of evil is flag-type NW battle where low lvl and hardly geared 60+ ppl couldn't stop a caster within those fateful 40 sec he needs to deliver a flag. Most of ppl who complained never pvp'ed outside nw.

Only if melee can have exactly the same but reflects magic damage.
Either weapon-add would be more than ridiculous.

You bargain with me like i'm a dev who would change this on the fly b:chuckle
You really think casters shouldn't have any skill on wep?

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

A pvp vid should include full scenes, show what you're actually doing and in what ways you contributed (especially for a support class). It should include your deaths and your derp moments. where you f-cked up.

There is no such word as "should" here, author of video can post whatever he wants. After all you can make your own vid with your wins, nobody forbids. Depends on purpose of the vid - if you want to show your best sides, can include wins, just for info - can include everything. Or only deaths, it's up to you only. It's not necessary to take it seriously though if no calc or gear ss are provided. This one is made just for mockery, clear as day b:chuckle Skills wise I didn't watch it attentively since I knew he had way better gear and result is predictable.

ablabahabla

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

He doesn't kill a single person in any of the pvp scenes.
Not even 1.
Watch his damage log.

He just showed some footage of people dying while he happens to have them targeted, in some cases he doesn't hit them even once (not even with a cc skill. He just happens to have them targeted).

There are no full pvp scenes, and he has numbers in every single one of the clips.

Even in the 1v1 (which there were 6 of), he doesn't show the fight. He cuts out the majority of the 1v1 then shows one of the clips I die.

If you think that's an impressive video, that's just sad.

R9.3 +10 BM w/ immac hp shards & g14 neck + cv ring
VS.
R9.3 +12 BM w/ JoSD & NW Ornaments

A pvp vid should include full scenes, show what you're actually doing and in what ways you contributed (especially for a support class). It should include your deaths and your derp moments. where you f-cked up.

Knights vs Zodian (and a couple Insurrect) PvP



You said this^

In reply to me saying Blademasters have the lowest damage at end game.

Yeah, you're right. I could go full strength w/ just the 55 dexterity to wield my R9 axes & 2 +50% accuracy rings. I'd have a total of 1,100 accuracy and would give up 3/4 of my skill trees (which also just got new content).

How well do you think that would work out?

You know, nobody is stopping you as a sin from just wielding a bow 24/7 either.
It would be stupid, but you'd have higher attack and that's your argument right?

i donno what u want to show with that video lol it shows u haveing a full pt of r9rr it seems for 4 people! O.o above u QQ about numbers.
this vid also shows that u have no idea of how to play the bm, at least u dont do as bad as in the 1v1 frmo the other vid but still that aint even near to doing good specially if u watch the outnumbering!
While the 1v1 part aws a 1v1 and u got rolled so bad its kinda sad ijs and that bm aint full josd as u tired to mention but nvm he has better gears ofc, but that doesnt excuse the unbeliefeable ack of skill u show on that vid and on your 2. vid too!

Kniraven - Lost City

ablabahabla wrote: »

i donno what u want to show with that video lol it shows u haveing a full pt of r9rr it seems for 4 people! O.o above u QQ about numbers.
this vid also shows that u have no idea of how to play the bm, at least u dont do as bad as in the 1v1 frmo the other vid but still that aint even near to doing good specially if u watch the outnumbering!
While the 1v1 part aws a 1v1 and u got rolled so bad its kinda sad ijs and that bm aint full josd as u tired to mention but nvm he has better gears ofc, but that doesnt excuse the unbeliefeable ack of skill u show on that vid and on your 2. vid too!

There are more than 4 opponents.

My party is not all r9.

The video description says names of who was there.

ZaytroX has full JoSD except maybe 1 gear? and is full +12 w/ NW ornaments.

There were 6 1v1. He picked the one I performed worst in, and didn't even show the full fight.

ablabahabla

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

There are more than 4 opponents.

My party is not all r9.

The video description says names of who was there.

ZaytroX has full JoSD except maybe 1 gear? and is full +12 w/ NW ornaments.

There were 6 1v1. He picked the one I performed worst in, and didn't even show the full fight.

u still did horrible and it doesnt excuse that at all, same as your gank pvp vid where there have been 4 at start and later was idk maybe 5 or 6 self buffed people vs your full buffed pt

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide

ablabahabla wrote: »

u still did horrible and it doesnt excuse that at all, same as your gank pvp vid where there have been 4 at start and later was idk maybe 5 or 6 self buffed people vs your full buffed pt

We go too deep in mud in the trashtalk lake.

Lets get back on track with the discussion. We dont focus on a particular server or player.

They might bring server vs server nw. That would be fun.

Also, i did many tests with the new wiz skill and the demon version procs quite often. I was mistaken in my previous post.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Spell_Caster - Raging Tide wrote: »

We go too deep in mud in the trashtalk lake.

Lets get back on track with the discussion. We dont focus on a particular server or player.

They might bring server vs server nw. That would be fun.

Also, i did many tests with the new wiz skill and the demon version procs quite often. I was mistaken in my previous post.

^ Exactly why I have stopped replying to the troll (despite the fact that I have things I could easily rebut in his posts... I am still refusing to reply to him) .... feed the troll and you just may get bitten. :X

Anyways kidding (last 9 words) aside.

EDIT: His rudeness/feeling like he has to belittle others and their play style is quite... ****..gy (Wow why isnt that word filtered.. I feel I should star it out roflmao). Aka he's being a tool/troll.

I am done replying to this thread at least for now, but I will likely still keep following this thread until it either dies off/or gets closed for too much flaming/off topicness.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

o.o which QQ will you be


QQ 1:
"QQ I use to pwn other classes fairly easily. They now upgraded other classes and the threats to me have increased. Therefore they are OP and need to be nerfed back, back to the days I pwn/kite them easily."

QQ 2:
"QQ I use to get killed so easily (because my PC is 50yrs old, live in the Sahara, have 30 siblings, 25 relatives and 10 camels using my modem, and started the game 2 days ago now lv102) I will die easier now they need not be OP than they already are!"

QQ 3:
"QQ While the other classes are learning their skills, ours suck so bad the cons outweigh the pros and we are better off not learning it"

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

o.o which QQ will you be


QQ 1:
"QQ I use to pwn other classes fairly easily. They now upgraded other classes and the threats to me have increased. Therefore they are OP and need to be nerfed back, back to the days I pwn/kite them easily."

QQ 2:
"QQ I use to get killed so easily (because my PC is 50yrs old, live in the Sahara, have 30 siblings, 25 relatives and 10 camels using my modem, and started the game 2 days ago now lv102) I will die easier now they need not be OP than they already are!"

QQ 3:
"QQ While the other classes are learning their skills, ours suck so bad the cons outweigh the pros and we are better off not learning it"

I'm all of the above do I win a cookie!?

(No I do not feel I fit all of that to a T.. especially the second one... really none of the second 'fit' me... that line is just meant as a joke)

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

And you completely miss the point that not all casters hit equally hard. No, I wouldn't crit a sin like he can crit me. I have no josds in my gear, which are must-have nowdays, but even watching pvp vids I pay special attention to damage log and I see how hard they can hit, whom and under what buffs and debuffs, who dies faster and who slower, in what gear etc. Taking part in pvp I can roughly predict the result according to ppl in our squad and opponents' gear and number.
The reasons sins hit so hard is because we apply combo's to our skills to make them more potent. Crits combined with wolf enblem. It's called amping. Something we have to do to overcome the limitations of the class. Have casters all but forgotten this lately? I can do insane damage, using an amp combo which blows through about 10 sparks over the course of 4 secs. It comes at a cost. As for not all caster's hit equally hard, it depends. You can use any magic wep you desire. You have the option of r9/ t3 pataka with its crazy range. Or you can get t3/WS on another weapon. But ofc you go r9, for the purify. Point being casters still hit hard, even if they are a veno. You opinion doesn't change that.

Like other classes don't have debuffs... Ours are kinda nerfed. Sins are nearly impossible to purge. Almost everyone has Faith on genie to resist debuffs and sometimes ping doesn't let you cancel channeling fast. Not talking about other classes having way more powerful debuffs which don't take ages to use.
Compare:
Longtime workaround turning into fox and back - 10 sec spent during which opponent 1) doesn't afk but counterattacks you knowing you won't kill him in foxform 2) his charm ticks and you have to start over
and
Instantly used powerful debuff while casting your skill, purge for which you don't need to stop attack or come close, x4 damage with which you don't really need to debuff.
Faith blows all of a genies energy, which means the person is genie-less afterwards. A veno's debuffs nerfed? Lets see you play a catabarb with crush vigor, or demon ironwood proc. As for not being able to kill in fox, thats a BS arguement. I've seen veno's kill CCed opponents in fox, CC that they themselves applied. The reason other classes have quicker debuffs is because they arent as devasting, and they have less debuffs as a whole. Sins have CC for example, but only 1 actual debuff that increase your damage taken unless is demon throatcut.

I have quite clear picture of what I can do I don't QQ as you may think, just saying - don't compare different classes even if they are all casters. Same bonus can also affect us all differently.
BM also wasn't originally claimed as pure DD, but support mass stunner, speaking of class roles. Why is there so many fuss about dealing "low damage" then?

You smile at the end, but you forgot to read the rest of the reason they have low damage. Because 200 pionts in dex clearly isnt a reason right? Or did you miss that as well? As for the bonus affecting casters differently. BS. Your damage still scales the same way if you use the same wep, once again you have a choice of weapons with which you can use all of your skills with. The fuss in the low damage that have 200 dex statted, it's pretty much self explanatory. BM is not a DD. People like to play it as such. You shot your own arguement in the foot. How sad.

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

What's the point of having purify then? Or any other antistun apo? Count classes who don't have purify and don't forget yourself, unable to immune such kind of CC.
If purify is that useless encountering newest game modifications, casters need another wep skill upgrade. How about reflecting physical damage equal to let's say your SF with the same chance to proc as PS? b:laugh

Cleric's are the only class that cant resist stuns ourside of a genie. This does not excusethe fact that every caster now has purify considering the firepower they posess. I wish a wizard would come QQ after this update. That would be hilarious.

Marengo - Lost City

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The reasons sins hit so hard is because we apply combo's to our skills to make them more potent. Crits combined with wolf enblem. It's called amping. Something we have to do to overcome the limitations of the class.

<sarcasm>And venos 1shot without any amping, mhm.</sarcasm>

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You smile at the end, but you forgot to read the rest of the reason they have low damage. Because 200 pionts in dex clearly isnt a reason right? Or did you miss that as well?

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/34789
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/34829
200 dex for what? I don't know any r9r BM on LC who still uses fists.

As for not all caster's hit equally hard, it depends. You can use any magic wep you desire. You have the option of r9/ t3 pataka with its crazy range. Or you can get t3/WS on another weapon. But ofc you go r9, for the purify. Point being casters still hit hard, even if they are a veno. You opinion doesn't change that.
...
As for the bonus affecting casters differently. BS. Your damage still scales the same way if you use the same wep, once again you have a choice of weapons with which you can use all of your skills with.

LOLWUT? f:staref:staref:stare Are you serious? What choice of weapon? WS has lower attack lvl, t3 in comparison to r9r is not even funny. Besides I will not hit as hard with a sword as with pataka because of that crazy range you mentioned.
Here is my calc:
http://pwcalc.com/ccc3b158c2063c90
Suggest any better wep? b:embarrass

But ofc you go r9, for the purify.

http://blog.littlebigfund.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/facepalm-wallpaper.jpg
I went for r9r because there is no choice. It's the only end game wep that combines a useful skill and highest attack. If WS had at least better damage or more def/attack lvl like r8r there would be a reason to think it over. But at the moment we have no choice.

I've seen veno's kill CCed opponents in fox, CC that they themselves applied.

Show me... The only CC in foxform is stunning blow which only freezes. Demon has 50% chance to stun for 3 sec and it costs 1 spark. Before uprgade you can easily miss with it, because accuracy... see calc above b:laugh Isn't it more reasonable to use chi free human form 3 stun instead? Bewitch is partly a CC since target can move.

Desdi - Sanctuary

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

snip

Actually, Venomancers have pretty bad damage (among casters) if you compare the skills (either DPS or DPH) and this is not related to the weapon they choose to use. People with multiple AA alts that share the weapon can tell you so.
In that sense, Venomancers work like Assassins and apply debuffs (or other combos) if they want to kill someone by themselves (or they just disregard that and go full support; vit builds, HAs etc.) Also, their actual damage from attacks has a delay except Lucky Scarab because it's a stun skill (and probably fox attacks but I haven't paid close attention to them).

I just wanted to point that out. This has nothing to do with whatever you're arguing by the way.
PS. To whoever thinks about bringing PvE Venomancing into discussion...no, this is not PvE.

Hafnium - Lost City

200 dex for what? I don't know any r9r BM on LC who still uses fists.

For accuracy....

Kniraven - Lost City

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/34789
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/34829
200 dex for what? I don't know any r9r BM on LC who still uses fists.

Sorry Marengo but you're completely wrong on this particular part.

There is no BM that would ever stat minimum dex. If they did they'd be a joke.
Most go 180-200 dex even if they never touch any weapon but axes.

At minimum dex even w/ 2 accuracy rings they'd have 1,100 accuracy.
They'd miss on caster classes regularly let alone 700-800 dex Archers/Assassins.

Blademasters don't have bloodbath like Barbarians do either to compensate for that kind of weakness.

Also, we received updates to our other skill trees. Seeing all 4 in use again should become common soon.

Marengo - Lost City wrote: »

BM also wasn't originally claimed as pure DD, but support mass stunner, speaking of class roles. Why is there so many fuss about dealing "low damage" then?

"Specializing in melee combat, these damage-dealers come from a long line of seasoned warriors."
- PWE
http://pwi.perfectworld.com/gameinfo/class/blademaster


Magic Attack Damage modifier = Magic/100.

ie. 800 Magic = Dmg x 8

Physical Attack Dmage modifier = Str or Dex / 150

ie. 800 Str/Dex = Dmg x 5.3

---

Magic PvP DD Build : minimum str, the rest magic.
EA/Sin PvP DD Build : minimum str, the rest dex.
Seeker PvP DD Build : minimum dex, the rest strength.
Barb PvP DD Build : minimum dex, the rest strength (stay in blood bath)
BM PvP DD Build : minimum dex for 4 wep trees, the rest strength

freygin

Str/dex based classes are compensated with more crit for the stats went to dex and they have quicker time to deliver damage on most of their skills with low cast time + channel time, there is also berserk/gof weapon add-on for doubling the damage and chance to zc. If str/dex based class wants the same multiplier, imagine their skills having the same cast time + channel time as casters with melee range b:chuckle

Vedovis - Lost City

I never said it was impressive. Just thought it was funny. You can't begrudge a girl some amusement when someone she dislikes gets killed.

Isn't this thread supposed to be about the new stuns, not a "I do less damage, QQ no*I* do less damage" QQ thread? by the way venos are definitely one of the weaker caster classes

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

freygin wrote: »

Str/dex based classes are compensated with more crit for the stats went to dex and they have quicker time to deliver damage on most of their skills with low cast time + channel time, there is also berserk/gof weapon add-on for doubling the damage and chance to zc. If str/dex based class wants the same multiplier, imagine their skills having the same cast time + channel time as casters with melee range b:chuckle

*backs away slowly I may have misnterpreted that.* b:avoid

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

freygin wrote: »

Str/dex based classes are compensated with more crit for the stats went to dex and they have quicker time to deliver damage on most of their skills with low cast time + channel time, there is also berserk/gof weapon add-on for doubling the damage and chance to zc. If str/dex based class wants the same multiplier, imagine their skills having the same cast time + channel time as casters with melee range b:chuckle

i honestly dont think most melee would mind sacrificing a bunch of benefits for say what caster/archers get, given the fact that each have already experienced what those classes can do for, and to, them.

Close and quick maybe good in a 1v1 but when your in an event and out in the open, durability, distance, and camouflage i think would be more important, and a BMs str/dex/cast doesnt really cut it. Sure they are annoying but not lethal. (this is from a viewpoint of a seeker)