Reviving The Game

Apostasy - Raging Tide

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Players who have a moral issue with leveling quickly can still level slowly doing the old school quests we did 4-5 years ago.

Restricting FC and Hyperstones to 75 is not about the "moral" aspect of PWI, it is about the quality and longevity of an MMORPG. b:beatup

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

I'm not even going to bother quoting him anymore, because there just isn't a point in replicating idiocy.


Janus keeps spouting about the majority of people being against this thread and it's ideals.
Janus keeps spouting about the majority of the players using/supporting FCC leveling.
Janus keeps ignoring/dismissing hard facts that go against his close mindedness.

This apparently isn't going to change.


Note, that a good majority of this thread so far is Janus arguing with 4 or 5 people and not providing any quality input or ideas.

Part of it is also WannaBM doing the same thing.


Fact: In the previous poll, Janus and "his followers" were a minority.
Fact: Even in this thread, Janus and "his followers" are a minority.
Fact: Our version of the game is suffering a decline in population where other sanctioned versions are not.
Fact: Our version has Hypering in FCC where other sanctioned versions do not.

Those are statements that can be backed up with hard evidence which cannot be reasonably disputed.
Yes Janus will sit and argue them all day. WannaBM is arguing change for the sake of arguing change.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not even going to bother quoting him anymore, because there just isn't a point in replicating idiocy.


Janus keeps spouting about the majority of people being against this thread and it's ideals.
Janus keeps spouting about the majority of the players using/supporting FCC leveling.
Janus keeps ignoring/dismissing hard facts that go against his close mindedness.

This apparently isn't going to change.


Note, that a good majority of this thread so far is Janus arguing with 4 or 5 people and not providing any quality input or ideas.

Part of it is also WannaBM doing the same thing.


Fact: In the previous poll, Janus and "his followers" were a minority.
Fact: Even in this thread, Janus and "his followers" are a minority.
Fact: Our version of the game is suffering a decline in population where other sanctioned versions are not.
Fact: Our version has Hypering in FCC where other sanctioned versions do not.

Those are statements that can be backed up with hard evidence which cannot be reasonably disputed.
Yes Janus will sit and argue them all day. WannaBM is arguing change for the sake of arguing change.

You know what else is interesting? According to the search function, Janus was never present in the poll thread, nor the original debate which spawned it. Perhaps we should assume he was in game this whole time, recruiting true believers to his cause. Except, y'know, they all had the ability to come to the poll and vote. Hell, I'm pretty sure WC was spammed several times across multiple servers with the poll's premise.

Janus and his fabled silent majority had every opportunity to show up and whine six months ago. They didn't. Oh, a few of them will show up butthurt if this change is ever implemented, but that's because they don't pay attention.

Meh, I had a big old wall-o-text ready to go for Janus's latest inane comments, but I don't think I'm going to quote him either. This is really all I have to say to all the fluff and ignorance that's comprised his posts for the majority of the thread. You cover the rest pretty well.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Restricting FC and Hyperstones to 75 is not about the "moral" aspect of PWI, it is about the quality and longevity of an MMORPG. b:beatup

Been down that road already, can't turn a game that has done everything in the short term into a magically long term game, especially by pissing off current players in favor of the small niche who think limiting the vast majority who powerlevel. Clearly you haven't thought about this more than what you desire and how you think you know what's best for everyone else. Remembering that this isn't your game, Wanmei has it's own agenda for Perfect World Ltd., and clearly they and the populace have spoken on how they want the game played. Having the option to play your way isn't enough, you need to use this awful excuse that this is saving the game when those of us who have experienced and worked in the F2P MMO industry know it doesn't.

You guys have a huge problem with dissenting opinions.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not even going to bother quoting him anymore, because there just isn't a point in replicating idiocy.


Janus keeps spouting about the majority of people being against this thread and it's ideals.
Janus keeps spouting about the majority of the players using/supporting FCC leveling.
Janus keeps ignoring/dismissing hard facts that go against his close mindedness.

This apparently isn't going to change.


Note, that a good majority of this thread so far is Janus arguing with 4 or 5 people and not providing any quality input or ideas.

Part of it is also WannaBM doing the same thing.


Fact: In the previous poll, Janus and "his followers" were a minority.
Fact: Even in this thread, Janus and "his followers" are a minority.
Fact: Our version of the game is suffering a decline in population where other sanctioned versions are not.
Fact: Our version has Hypering in FCC where other sanctioned versions do not.

Those are statements that can be backed up with hard evidence which cannot be reasonably disputed.
Yes Janus will sit and argue them all day. WannaBM is arguing change for the sake of arguing change.

FACT: Sylen quotes polls on forum ignoring blatant heavy population of malcontents.
FACT: Sylen quotes thread on forum ignoring blatant heavy population of malcontents.
FACT: Sylen references other versions of PW where people play quite differently and Wanmei steers them in another direction.
FACT: Sylen references other versions of PW where people play quite differently and Wanmei steers them in another direction.

What's funny is if you actually had played those versions, you'd get tired of the massive grind they are. That was also consequently a stated reason on the forums malcontents were leaving for *insert new game here* when we did have virtually only quests and high kill counts. History be damned.

I can sit there and point out the blatant biases in whatever "facts" you're referencing (in a court case everyone has "facts" too), because facts are only as relevant as how they're being used, clearly you seem to believe we're ****ing stupid, and that dismissing my posts as non-quality, or trollish, or haven't provided any input (in the fashion that caters to you and your argument of course), telling me to post elsewhere.. effectively shows you haven't any decent argument. Worse, piggybacking on those few who want to completely change the way the game is played for some valiantly ridiculous, imagined, self-absorbed means that you're saving the game by trying to get PWI implementing your ideas that are best for a private server.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You know what else is interesting? According to the search function, Janus was never present in the poll thread, nor the original debate which spawned it. Perhaps we should assume he was in game this whole time, recruiting true believers to his cause. Except, y'know, they all had the ability to come to the poll and vote. Hell, I'm pretty sure WC was spammed several times across multiple servers with the poll's premise.

Janus and his fabled silent majority had every opportunity to show up and whine six months ago. They didn't. Oh, a few of them will show up butthurt if this change is ever implemented, but that's because they don't pay attention.

Meh, I had a big old wall-o-text ready to go for Janus's latest inane comments, but I don't think I'm going to quote him either. This is really all I have to say to all the fluff and ignorance that's comprised his posts for the majority of the thread. You cover the rest pretty well.

You forgot to source Alex Jones for this "recruit" theory of yours.

It's cute though that you apply this "you're too late" idea when last I checked, people can still hyper powerlevel in FF. It does aptly show the problem you have with being realistic concerning how this game was already developed and managed.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can sit there and point out the blatant biases in whatever "facts" you're referencing (in a court case everyone has "facts" too), because facts are only as relevant as how they're being used, clearly you seem to believe we're ****ing stupid, and that dismissing my posts as non-quality, or trollish, or haven't provided any input (in the fashion that caters to you and your argument of course), telling me to post elsewhere.. effectively shows you haven't any decent argument.

We've been waiting for "quality arguments" from you for over thirty pages. It's not our fault you choose to blame us when we don't see the drivel you post for the glorious thought-provoking masterpieces you seem to think they are. Here's a tip: try actually backing up your facts rather than expecting us to be dazzled by the very concept of a silent majority.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You forgot to source Alex Jones for this "recruit" theory of yours.

It's cute though that you apply this "you're too late" idea when last I checked, people can still hyper powerlevel in FF. It does aptly show the problem you have with being realistic concerning how this game was already developed and managed.

I've told you many times that we in support of the Frost change operate in spite of PWE and wanmei's mishandling of the game, not in ignorance of it. You've simply dodged the question again. Your mythical silent majority was simply nowhere to be found when the discussion and the poll were held, and neither were you. You have no reason to be butthurt now.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We've been waiting for "quality arguments" from you for over thirty pages. It's not our fault you choose to blame us when we don't see the drivel you post for the glorious thought-provoking masterpieces you seem to think they are. Here's a tip: try actually backing up your facts rather than expecting us to be dazzled by the very concept of a silent majority.

I've told you many times that we in support of the Frost change operate in spite of PWE and wanmei's mishandling of the game, not in ignorance of it. You've simply dodged the question again. Your mythical silent majority was simply nowhere to be found when the discussion and the poll were held, and neither were you. You have no reason to be butthurt now.

Translation: We don't read your posts, therefore come up with something that makes me want to read, but I'll quote your posts and reply to them anyways cuz trolololol.

"Mishandling of the game" -- misnomer, lie, subjective negative interpretation of clear intent by developers to push people to endgame.

"Mythical silent majority" -- falsehood, deception. 31 of the last 40 topics on this forum ( ~ 77%) which you cite are QQ. You believe the people actively playing QQ this much? Hahahaha. No. They're part of your problem because they're busy doing runs in instances you aren't doing, or are powerleveling their toons, or are FFing powerleveled toons. Hence why you want to change it. You pretend you're speaking for a majority but you aren't.

You can try and diguise a POS argument all you like and prop it up as informed, but I've effectively laid to rest the notion that "save the game, targeting FF/hypers/powerlevels" is a logical one (note that others in this topic have as well, and they mostly were ignored), and that the arguments put forth are heavily biased, not coming from rationality, and using polls from a forum that's very clearly not representative of the in-game population regarding FF/hypers/powerleveling. Right from the start those who support this idea were telling dissenters to leave -- which worked out well didn't it?

Again, all you have to do is look at world chat, or take your lazy *** down to FF and see for yourself how many people are powerleveling or hyper leveling powerleveled toons. Or find out how many level 100+ players in any given squad were powerleveled. Being that I've played this game for a while, and actually pay attention instead of QQ on the forums endlessly (unlike you I can adapt to a game that isn't exactly the way I want it to be), I might have an idea. Clearly you've spent this time trying to convince yourself that the majority of the players are like you when in fact you're fighting an uphill battle on an extremely slanted uphill road. You can convince yourself that it's actually flat or downhill, but it doesn't change the road -- as in, you don't speak for the active population who are playing in contravention to your ideals about how this game should be played.

krisnda

Keep the discussion civil. Please.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...
FACT: Sylen quotes polls on forum ignoring blatant heavy population of malcontents.
FACT: Sylen quotes thread on forum ignoring blatant heavy population of malcontents.
FACT: Sylen references other versions of PW where people play quite differently and Wanmei steers them in another direction.
FACT: Sylen references other versions of PW where people play quite differently and Wanmei steers them in another direction.

What's funny is if you actually had played those versions, you'd get tired of the massive grind they are. That was also consequently a stated reason on the forums malcontents were leaving for *insert new game here* when we did have virtually only quests and high kill counts. History be damned.
...

Your "facts are pretty far off. Especially since I didn't ignore the minority. I addressed it. That part of the discussion is over.

As for your comment on the other versions...
I have played them. Thanks to the new content for lower levels, they aren't a massive grind like they used to be.

My point is that the other versions are obviously successful. If we want for our version to be successful as well, we should mimic them, rather than being the only version that's different, and the only version that's failing.

Krisnda wrote: »

Keep the discussion civil. Please.

Agreed. JanusZeal is directing this thread into exactly what I wanted to avoid, and is why I worked the Opening Post as I did.

Since he hasn't provided any subjective data and is just glory-posting at this point. I recommend that those tired of hearing his vague nostalgic pie in the sky comments simply add him to your forum blacklist.

I for one will, because he is distracting this thread from it's intent simply because he wants to disagree. If you have any helpful suggestions Janus, feel free to speak up. Sadly, I won't see them unless someone quotes you.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Translation: We don't read your posts, therefore come up with something that makes me want to read, but I'll quote your posts and reply to them anyways cuz trolololol.

We've read thirty-plus pages worth of them. We don't agree. Apparently the only conclusion you can reach from that is that we're lazy. Maybe we've just been getting tired of watching you... oh, what was your phrase again?... polish a ****. The same ****. Over and over and over. I'm sorry to say that your fervor in polishing it will not help you stay relevant to the discussion.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"Mishandling of the game" -- misnomer, lie, subjective negative interpretation of clear intent by developers to push people to endgame.

Intentional mishandling is still mishandling. At what point did I say it wasn't a subjective term? Whatever you want to call it, we're well aware of it and intend to continue in spite of it.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"Mythical silent majority" -- falsehood, deception. 31 of the last 40 topics on this forum ( ~ 77%) which you cite are QQ. You believe the people actively playing QQ this much? Hahahaha. No. They're part of your problem because they're busy doing runs in instances you aren't doing, or are powerleveling their toons, or are FFing powerleveled toons. Hence why you want to change it. You pretend you're speaking for a majority but you aren't.

[lots of fluff down here]

Leaving aside the inherently subjective definition of "QQ," I must've missed the sign overtop of the forums which says "QQers only." The content of other threads has no impact on the poll. The forums exist for any player to check and post on, and the word was even spread through WC. Your "camp" had every tool necessary to voice their opinion. And they did - their voices constituted a fair 36% of the poll. It's not our fault you don't like the numbers.

Asone - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Agreed. JanusZeal is directing this thread into exactly what I wanted to avoid, and is why I worked the Opening Post as I did.

Since he hasn't provided any subjective data and is just glory-posting at this point. I recommend that those tired of hearing his vague nostalgic pie in the sky comments simply add him to your forum blacklist.

I for one will, because he is distracting this thread from it's intent simply because he wants to disagree. If you have any helpful suggestions Janus, feel free to speak up. Sadly, I won't see them unless someone quotes you.

Agreed. I'm tired of seeing him trying to derail the thread and have nothing to show for what hes been claiming. Bye bye Janus.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your "facts are pretty far off. Especially since I didn't ignore the minority. I addressed it. That part of the discussion is over.

As for your comment on the other versions...
I have played them. Thanks to the new content for lower levels, they aren't a massive grind like they used to be.

My point is that the other versions are obviously successful. If we want for our version to be successful as well, we should mimic them, rather than being the only version that's different, and the only version that's failing.


Agreed. JanusZeal is directing this thread into exactly what I wanted to avoid, and is why I worked the Opening Post as I did.

Since he hasn't provided any subjective data and is just glory-posting at this point. I recommend that those tired of hearing his vague nostalgic pie in the sky comments simply add him to your forum blacklist.

I for one will, because he is distracting this thread from it's intent simply because he wants to disagree. If you have any helpful suggestions Janus, feel free to speak up. Sadly, I won't see them unless someone quotes you.

Other versions might be more successful due to other factors. That you blame FF and hypers adequately shows how one-tracked your mind works. No one is going to take seriously someone who asserts that other versions of PW are "successful" simply because of this. Also, maybe if you (and Miugre, and vansomethingsomething, I forget his name) didn't reply with such vitriol and tell people who disagree with you to leave you might see a more friendly discussion. People also might not take kindly to you telling them how to play.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

We've read thirty-plus pages worth of them. We don't agree. Apparently the only conclusion you can reach from that is that we're lazy. Maybe we've just been getting tired of watching you... oh, what was your phrase again?... polish a ****. The same ****. Over and over and over. I'm sorry to say that your fervor in polishing it will not help you stay relevant to the discussion.

Intentional mishandling is still mishandling. At what point did I say it wasn't a subjective term? Whatever you want to call it, we're well aware of it and intend to continue in spite of it.

Unlike you I'm not telling you to stop, I'm simply pointing out the way things are. I already know my options if I tire of reading your posts, just like when you went out of your way to PM me about this topic nonsensically.

Leaving aside the inherently subjective definition of "QQ," I must've missed the sign overtop of the forums which says "QQers only." The content of other threads has no impact on the poll. The forums exist for any player to check and post on, and the word was even spread through WC. Your "camp" had every tool necessary to voice their opinion. And they did - their voices constituted a fair 36% of the poll. It's not our fault you don't like the numbers.

There's no better indicator of what people want and how they speak than how they play. Yet obviously you aren't suggesting that PWI's decision is based on that. Instead, you and your like-minded 2 or 3 posters give this unwarranted amount of weight to a forum with a small handful of people, mainly full of QQ posts, and disregard the active playerbase. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that most people who disagree with you are busy playing the game (in the fashion you demand to change) and not posting on the forums for years about how awful the game is and how in dire need of saving it is.

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

Agreed. I'm tired of seeing him trying to derail the thread and have nothing to show for what hes been claiming. Bye bye Janus.

Bye! I've made arguments, most of them are understood by playing the game and not referencing forum polls, given this is a derailment to you, and your inability to handle different opinions from the cult one that's been perpetuated for years now, it's probably best you block me. Few are going to take seriously someone who has in their sig "do things my way or jump off a cliff". b:bye

Selak - Dreamweaver

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Age has not killed other MMORPGs e.g. 12 years for one company I know and still going strong.

Lol, I do not call this game a MMORPG anymore, its now a MOBA lol,
but its false advertising when the company calls it game a MMORPG and then it turns out to be a MOBA.

Why do I dislike this style of play, because after years and years of playing these games (e.g. home networking parties before the net) and discussing them with other MOBA/FPS players, given that when all things are equal for all players, your kill death ratio ends up being 50/50 it may be lower at times or higher but if you collect the stats in all games you play long enough it all ends up the same.

BORING!.

If its not 50/50 then you are all not all even in gear and experience, and it becomes an E-PEEN fest.

As to commenting on a game I currently am taking a break from, then you need to listen to people who have left so that you can enact things within the game to prevent this happening in the future.

As to playing Real RPGs lol try starting on book games then progressing to ULTIMA Underworld 1 and 11 on a 1 mb Amstrad 80286 with 4 mb ram added to an ISA slot card just to play and so on since.

I am not claiming to be an Expert on gaming I just have enough years under my belt to know what I do not like in a game.

My definition of an Expert. (Ex-Spurt), Ex =Old, Spurt =Drip under pressure.
therefore an Expert is an "Old drip under pressure".

Taking my own personal time from my other real MMORPGs to help improve this game should demonstrate how much I care about this game, and not be an insult to those who still play, if you cannot see that, then you are more likely worried about your personal feelings rather than the game, and need to rethink your own motivations for commenting in the first place, you have more problems than you think.

Not rewriting this again, just will quote my post from another thread.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not rewriting this again, just will quote my post from another thread.

Agreed. the mismanagement has taken an MMORPG and basically turned it into a MMOBA focused almost entirely on instances and gear.

My quest is an effort to return the game back to the style of play that is intended by the developers, and in doing so, increase the longevity and sustainability of the title.

Contrary to the opinions of the few, this is actually do-able, assuming I can get the company (PWE) to listen. This is about taking a first step towards a series of actions that can boost and revitalize the community, which will make the company more money, and lead to further development.

Although the Angelica engine is considerably outdated and under-powered by today's standards, we've seen successful games that are still alive even with a lacking engine.
Take EQ for example. It debuted in 1999, for it's time, it was immensely beautiful. As of November 2012, it's on it's nineteenth expansion and is still going strong today.
EQ2 released in 2004 and had an updated engine with new capabilities. Not only is it going strong, but it's had a few spinoffs as well.
And now they're looking at releasing a third installment with an even newer engine capable of much more.

When I first came across PW, I saw that it had the potential to stand up to that kind of lifeline. It still has that same potential in the other, purer, varieties. It does not currently have that in ours, and the main reason for that is the fixation on endgame and the power creep. Both of which are influenced largely by the Western audience.

And with all of that said, I'll leave you with THIS.
If you follow that, you can see exactly how Morai, and the new skills were created as incomparables, and by it's design, developed to increase the longevity of the title. So contrary to the belief of the few, Perfect World still has a bit to go. Let's see what we can do to help it along.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver

Fascinating video, and yes, I would like a more challenging set of modes for the old instances.

First though, we need more open map content. BHes on world-based bosses, maybe? BH3 in TT, BH3 Nirvy etc. More stuff to do than just an endless chain of dailies.

Asone - Raging Tide

Hey SylenThunder, I know this may sound a little odd coming from me but, the threading is titled "Reviving the Game" right? Ok so we've talked about FC for what, 38 pages now? Ok so the poll is based off the first step that it would take to start a revitalization.

Now. What would be a good next step if FC ever got this restriction? Unfortunately I have to go to bed now so I only type up a quickie here. But what be your next move on this, I'm curious to know. f:stare

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

Too bad he couldnt remember my name, guess hes suffering from memory elapses.

Final thoughts: From just simply reading janus's replies, it surely seemed like all he was saying was this.

1. PW is dying so just accept it, move on, all cause its the way it is now, and the way it will be.

2. Just accept my opinion as fact based on blind assumptions. (without any actual evidence to back up his claims.)

3. That those that think that pw will get better just by simply by putting a lvl cap on FC are either crazy, idiots, nostalgic, or are part of the same thinking minority (short term establishment).


@Sylan, hope i didnt derail your thread too much by making some petty insults at janus. So where do we stand as a pw playerbase now if we keep getting ppl like these numbskulls who absolutely have no evidence what so ever to backup their claims only to make them look like they have the bigger bullhorn than we do. But for a change, i really enjoyed tearing him to shreds.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1. PW is dying so just accept it, move on, all cause its the way it is now, and the way it will be.

Wrong.. again.

2. Just accept my opinion as fact based on blind assumptions. (without any actual evidence to back up his claims.)

Wrong.. again.

3. That those that think that pw will get better just by simply by putting a lvl cap on FC are either crazy, idiots, nostalgic, or are part of the same thinking minority (short term establishment).

Right, kind of. I'll give you half credit due to making up half of those descriptions.

0.5/3 = 16% = F. <- your final grades to go with your final thoughts which I think aptly sums up your contributions here too. When you can take the game playing populace seriously, instead of thinking some small group of players on a forum with an exaggeratedly awful and patently false premise (not to mention extremely biased and illogical system of collecting data, ignoring said active populace) should dictate for the rest of us how we play, you might be taken that way too.

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Since he hasn't provided any subjective data and is just glory-posting at this point. I recommend that those tired of hearing his vague nostalgic pie in the sky comments simply add him to your forum blacklist.

Which is also handy for avoiding anything to do with Zanryu's negative attitude to anything positive i post. I forgot we had one of these. Ty Sylen

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Which is also handy for avoiding anything to do with Zanryu's negative attitude to anything positive i post. I forgot we had one of these. Ty Sylen

Considering recent events, its a bit too late for that.

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hey SylenThunder, I know this may sound a little odd coming from me but, the threading is titled "Reviving the Game" right? Ok so we've talked about FC for what, 38 pages now? Ok so the poll is based off the first step that it would take to start a revitalization.

Now. What would be a good next step if FC ever got this restriction? Unfortunately I have to go to bed now so I only type up a quickie here. But what be your next move on this, I'm curious to know. f:stare

Seconding this question. The FC thing is getting awfully tiresome to read. What would happen if the change did occur? What more would be needed?

krisnda

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Considering recent events, its a bit too late for that.

Is never too late for anything.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

I realize I was the person who kinda fed the troll the most, so for anyone curious: I'm more than happy to continue the discussion as originally intended. Anyone interested in my explanation for such is welcome to send me a PM. Sorry Kris if I contributed to any confusion.

So let me also echo the question of what Sylen's Step Two would be. Personally, dialing back the free lowbie gear and charms would be my next priority. Though admittedly, when I first voted in this thread I chose the first option; now, I find myself more inclined to restrict hyper use in general, as well. Maybe hypers themselves are the problem, and could be replaced with other mechanisms for faster leveling for 75+ players?

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Asone - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hey SylenThunder, I know this may sound a little odd coming from me but, the threading is titled "Reviving the Game" right? Ok so we've talked about FC for what, 38 pages now? Ok so the poll is based off the first step that it would take to start a revitalization.

Now. What would be a good next step if FC ever got this restriction? Unfortunately I have to go to bed now so I only type up a quickie here. But what be your next move on this, I'm curious to know. f:stare

The overall plan is still in development, and I am still speaking with various people on it, but the general guideline is this...

1. Restoring FCC to a level-appropriate instance. (They attempted this before by modifying the door quest, but didn't pull it off well because they were pretty nooby with the code at the time.)

2. Increasing advertising. Some of the best ways to do this is through the User-created promotional video contests. We used to have a lot of things like this, but they've long since been dropped off to the side. There's lots of ways to accomplish this without costing the company mounds of advertising dollars. It is the internet after all.

3. Rewarding players for helping others. We're not talking about rewarding a 100+ for soloing instances for the little guys. I'm working on something accumulative like attendance, and the rewards will be scaled based on the level gaps and assistance provided. (It's just a draft at this point, I haven't gotten into coding the quests for it yet.)

4. Level-scaling the instances. It would use a buffing system similar to how you enter NW, but it will be based solely on the level ranges of the squad. It will also require some re-structuring of instances and their associated bosses.

At some point, the real issue is going to be Wanmei's decision to break the experience table and limit the game to a maximum level of 105, instead of the intended 150. There's a lot of currently unused areas with a slew of incomplete/missing quests that can be expanded upon. Currently there is data going up to 119, and scraps going up to 130, but a lot of it got re-coded to fit with the 100-105 level compression.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, and there's other choices that could be made, and other possible path to follow. None of it is going to be worth anything though if we don't repopulate the game. Since a large part of the problem with retaining new players is the power creep and the desolate landscape, this is a first step to push the games community in the right direction for continued growth.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide

There are some things that could be done to revitalize low to mid level areas, and make it enticing for players, like add items that can only be found up to level 20, 40, 60 on any mobs within that level range, but make the items untradable, and possibly not account stashable. Things that people enjoy getting outside of gear like nice fashion. Let it be a fashion drop that you get to choose male or female. There are five places we can put body fashion, so say up to level 20 for feet. If character goes past 20 the drop becomes insanely low but up to level 20 its low but manageable. From 21 to level 40 legs, 41 to 60 chest, 61 to 80 arms, 81 to 95 hair. Over 95 people are already way focused on endgame.

But in essence what I am saying is add some FUN cosmetic drops to low to mid levels, that can be dropped by any mobs in the outside world, that are in level specific ranges, that once the character is out of that range it will no longer drop. Not everyone cares exclusively about weapon and gear drops.

Add some non tradable (but account stashable) drops of things that are boutique items like decent flyers (even if a very low drop rate), or mounts, refine aids, but make the drop table for only up to level 80. Just make sure the items are not sellable but things people woukd enjoy as a new player or enjoy finding as an alt. Anyone over level 80 already has everything they need.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Actually, a lot of interest can be revived in field questing by doing just this:

1. Add special item rewards to quests. An item like Mystic Verdant Jade would be a good choice, particularly for some 60+ quests. Certain lowbie quests could get the more basic version.
2. Bump up the mob count a bit, maybe half of what it used to be in 2008 (e.g. 35 spinewraiths, not 70)

They don't have to be these items, but this is an example of what I mean. There's nothing that would boost interest in field questing more than the chance of winning money and stuff from it. Step 1 generates the interest, Step 2 keeps them in the field long enough to make it advantageous to meet and squad with people.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, a lot of interest can be revived in field questing by doing just this:

1. Add special item rewards to quests. An item like Mystic Verdant Jade would be a good choice, particularly for some 60+ quests. Certain lowbie quests could get the more basic version.
2. Bump up the mob count a bit, maybe half of what it used to be in 2008 (e.g. 35 spinewraiths, not 70)

They don't have to be these items, but this is an example of what I mean. There's nothing that would boost interest in field questing more than the chance of winning money and stuff from it. Step 1 generates the interest, Step 2 keeps them in the field long enough to make it advantageous to meet and squad with people.

I like those ideas. Make low level BHs have mini rewards similar to BH100, but only by selecting the level you want your squad to be. (No drops if squad member is 30+ levels over the BH level), minimal drop table for members 10 to 29 levels over, and low but possible good odds on drops for less than 10 levels over.

(Adding hypothetical card names below)

Up to BH39 chance for a Happy Cards (100k x 3), Smiles Card (500k x1)
BH51 to 69 Happy Cards, Smiles Cards (both x 3) and ecstasy card (x 1) chance
BH79 to 99 all the above cards x 3 except ecstasy x 2, and rare drop of excitement card

OFate - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I realize I was the person who kinda fed the troll the most, so for anyone curious: I'm more than happy to continue the discussion as originally intended. Anyone interested in my explanation for such is welcome to send me a PM. Sorry Kris if I contributed to any confusion.

So let me also echo the question of what Sylen's Step Two would be. Personally, dialing back the free lowbie gear and charms would be my next priority. Though admittedly, when I first voted in this thread I chose the first option; now, I find myself more inclined to restrict hyper use in general, as well. Maybe hypers themselves are the problem, and could be replaced with other mechanisms for faster leveling for 75+ players?

I'm broke so my Veno is using quests and such to level. I'm finding it very enjoyable actually.

I got some silk worms from the helper NPCS and those I use when I'm close to leveling.

All in all, I"m not finding it hard to level at all, but I am finding it difficult to keep even 200k on me.

But I know once I"m higher, things will get better. I''m gathering now to work on my crafting, which I got to 3 on all.

One thing I think helps me out alot the fact higher levels have been exceptionally helpful to me with bosses, w/o me even needing to ask. They see you near a boss waiting and ask if you need help.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

OFate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm broke so my Veno is using quests and such to level. I'm finding it very enjoyable actually.

I got some silk worms from the helper NPCS and those I use when I'm close to leveling.

All in all, I"m not finding it hard to level at all, but I am finding it difficult to keep even 200k on me.

But I know once I"m higher, things will get better. I''m gathering now to work on my crafting, which I got to 3 on all.

One thing I think helps me out alot the fact higher levels have been exceptionally helpful to me with bosses, w/o me even needing to ask. They see you near a boss waiting and ask if you need help.

It's nice to hear from a newbie who actually visits the forums, amidst all the trolling and cynicism we have here these days. :P Have you been visiting Jolly Jones for money? Probably the biggest coin sink for lowbies is their class skills, and that money will help with that (what your quests alone don't cover, I mean).

Good luck with those crafting trials, btw... those things can be hell. You might want to consider making an alt, get them to Lv35 or so, and have them kill certain mobs that drop the mats you need.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

But in essence what I am saying is add some FUN cosmetic drops to low to mid levels, that can be dropped by any mobs in the outside world, that are in level specific ranges, that once the character is out of that range it will no longer drop. Not everyone cares exclusively about weapon and gear drops.

Add some non tradable (but account stashable) drops of things that are boutique items like decent flyers (even if a very low drop rate), or mounts, refine aids, but make the drop table for only up to level 80. Just make sure the items are not sellable but things people woukd enjoy as a new player or enjoy finding as an alt. Anyone over level 80 already has everything they need.

Agreed.

I recently made a new character to get an idea of things that could be improved. Only had a few hours one day to play him so far, but he got to 30 and I made note of some things that I think really could be improved.

The only somewhat difficult part I had was the beginning quests, levels 1-18ish. First off, these quests didn't seem to get hit by the revamp and so with the silly drops like Buddha's Hand and DQ21-31 being nerfed I didn't even have money to teleport, let alone gear up and get all the skills available. They should revamp these quests to give a little more cash.

Secondly, the character run speed on most characters is atrociously slow, and the early quests had a *lot* of running (especially with no money to teleport). When doing the quests themselves I had fun but I found it got really boring for me with the fact that I was running more than I was questing at times. I think they could improve this by putting some sort of timed mount in the supply stash available on the first opening, or just have an NPC give a quest to get it at level 1. I was able to stash an anni mount to my new character at level 10 which helped immensely, but a new player will not have that option.

Third, I think more quests for gear rewards in the early levels would be nice. You get the one quest that outfits you right off the bat, but other than that you just get a few bits and pieces and no cash to supplement that. (Dreamchaser pack takes care of that entirely but those are not available most of the time.) It would be nice to have a quest every 10 levels or so for a whole new set of gear, maybe until the 40s-50s (not super OP gear either, but maybe a step up from NPC gear... like 3* equivalent). This could also be done via the supply stash.

Fourth, if they are going to make levelling so fast they should reduce the reputation required to use the tab for FBs. My new character was 23 before I got my culti 19 done (I was trying to do quests in order) and I still didn't have the required reputation because I hadn't completed every quest available. While I'm all for the idea of needing to quest to get something like that, I also enjoy being able to use a reward weapon at the level it is available for.

And lastly (for now because I have to go to work), there should be a popup message when you get to the appropriate level for the Jolly Jones quests. It seems like most of the new players I talk to have no idea they exist, and they are really good for keeping up money-wise in the early levels.

Pwnallagain - Heavens Tear

Lol there was no option for none of the above. Why do you care? it doesn't harm you. Just don't take them in squads if you don't want them.

Smiliess - Heavens Tear

all those good idea's, but this is going on for years now.
I highly disagree reduce FCC and hyper. u cant stop whats already going on.
Love the idea of bh29+ item/cash rewards,,,and plz remove those chips....its rediculous.
I realy wonder if they even listen to the players.
Because the game is dead, i mean dead like: AFK at bankers and other npc's
The only players that are playing, are the ones that made a new toon,
or stil waiting for ther bh parties.
Drops are tomuch nerved, when 2x drops is on,,,i make bout 800k-1mil+ in 1 hour
with 1x drops i hardly make 150k.

People want money, not exp reduce. i prefer lvling slowly and get some cash from quest
then lvling high up, and get forged to charge real life money.
As someone said before,,,give low lvl bh's also the chance on extacy cards etc. not when ur 100
because thats the reason why many lvl fast to get to that 100, for bh100 rewards