Reviving The Game

Asone - Raging Tide

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I made a barb. I'm not sure what the cash from early quests had been previously, but both I and a friend that made a new mystic ran out of money and couldn't buy gear or teleport. But after I hit archosaur quests it was much better.

Well, it was awful for one, the coin reward for the lv1-19 quests now are much better then what they use to be. I know that the coin gets much better by lv20+ with the JJ bounties and those season NPCs....oh god what r they called again?......its those ones with the lv20+ dailies I don't know what the hell to call them lol.


Teleport incense doesn't really help with things like running from Lost to Gate of Antiquity. It is handy for hitting town after you finish a quest but not for getting there. I just found early on that all the running made me want to quit and play another char, and that isn't a good thing. (Also the timed flyer is only 0.50 which is not really helpful when you get to the back and forth culti quests to the Mines out of west arch... all that travel at such a slow speed is horrible.)

I guess I must have done my quests in a different order. When I played all the classes last week I noticed that when they revamped the coin rewards they also revamped much of the EXP in many of the quests so that most could be done in the same areas when they hit the right levels.
It didn't use to be like that, it was much worse back then. Those quests would have you running around different areas with quests in odd places while the rest you had were in another area or two and then it threw you off even more when you got to the next level.

I didn't say anything about rank gear. What I said was I could not use the tabs for my FB19 because I did not have the required reputation. Yes, tabs require reputation to use. We didn't know this in the past because doing all of the quests gets you there, but now that you can hit 23+ without finishing the quests you are generally short rep by the time you want to do the FB. (I was at 73ish rep at lvl 23, having done most of the quests, but you need 80+ rep.) I could have just waited until even later when I had the rep, but the FB awards a nice weapon that you can use at level 19/20 and it would be nice to use it at that level. For some classes it is much nicer than the supply stash weapon.

But, I'll add it is also not true that if you do all of your quests you will have the rep by level 30 to attain rank 1 gear. I did every quest I had but I levelled so fast that they were backed up some, and when I got the message to visit the Commander-in-Chief I was still 50+ rep short of attaining the gear. But then, my barb still is only on the culti parts out of north arch and he is level 34 now. The speed is kind of ridiculous.

Ooookkk I misunderstood what you had said before, my bad. But as for not being able to get the Rank 1 gear when you reach level 30 well, I've never had that problem. I was always able to get the first rank of gear when doing all the quests by level 30.
I just got a cleric to level 30 last night by doing nothing but questing, was able to get her 1st rank gear with the total of 324 Reputation that I had. I don't know how you didn't get enough Reputation by that level at all.f:confused

No, people knew about this, in fact it was in the old quest guides on wiki before I updated it. When I was rearranging the guide page I think I may have deleted that line, I'm not sure. I'll have to go back and check again after I'm done with the level 20-30 page thank you reminding me.

Edit: Never mind it's still there but only on some of the guide pages. I'll have to update that to the other pages as a reminder when I have time.

Also, again, I don't know how you did not have enough Reputation to do your FB19 at level 19. All the quests give you enough Reputation to be able to get your FB done at the same level as long as you've done all the quests up to that level (I'm not counting buying Reputation).

SirChad - Raging Tide

The only way this game will thrive again, is by a new installment. A whole new game as the next chapter of PWI. This would enhance graphics and bring the game more to the "newage" of MMOs while keeping its foundations that made us all love it to begin with.

All your theories of FC or Hypers being the issue is fine and all... The issue is simple though. The game is dated. People looking for new MMORPGs to play are looking for just that... NEW MMORPGS. This one is getting old. It really is as simple as that.

I've started the game on launch day and would love to play it again, but would need one of these things to happen. A whole new revamp on the game, bringing it into the current age of MMORPGs, reskinned and polished. Or as I said above (The best choice imo) to make a whole new game as the next chapter of the storyline. Both of these options would have to be advertised as well.

You don't have to agree with these, but they are the only options in revitalizing the game. OF course you'd all not get to keep your 100+ characters so I don't see anyone voting for the best option. I for one, care more about seeing the game that got me into MMORPGs getting a second life, more so than about me having a high character to look over new players with though.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

SirChad - Raging Tide wrote: »

The only way this game will thrive again, is by a new installment. A whole new game as the next chapter of PWI. This would enhance graphics and bring the game more to the "newage" of MMOs while keeping its foundations that made us all love it to begin with.

All your theories of FC or Hypers being the issue is fine and all... The issue is simple though. The game is dated. People looking for new MMORPGs to play are looking for just that... NEW MMORPGS. This one is getting old. It really is as simple as that.

I've started the game on launch day and would love to play it again, but would need one of these things to happen. A whole new revamp on the game, bringing it into the current age of MMORPGs, reskinned and polished. Or as I said above (The best choice imo) to make a whole new game as the next chapter of the storyline. Both of these options would have to be advertised as well.

You don't have to agree with these, but they are the only options in revitalizing the game. OF course you'd all not get to keep your 100+ characters so I don't see anyone voting for the best option. I for one, care more about seeing the game that got me into MMORPGs getting a second life, more so than about me having a high character to look over new players with though.

Agreed, and that was one of my further steps that follows this initial step. Based on the news we are hearing, the type of update you describe would appear to be coming sooner, rather than later.

This is just the first in a series of steps to re-populate the game with newer players that will spend money and support the longevity of the title.

And actually, it is possible to upgrade the base engine to revamp the game, and by offering more incomparables, they will be able to revitalize the content without having to completely redesign it and start anew like with the different EQ versions. Based on what has been leaked/released about the next major expansion, that is exactly what will happen.

ArcticRain - Raging Tide

I just found this page, and voted to restrict access to FCC prior to lvl 75. JI personally figure that the 3rd option isn't very accurate. Reason being that of course, if you can't access FCC prior to lvl75, of course you won't be able to use hypers.

Although, if you restrict hypers prior ro lvl 75, of course you won't get as many exp while in FC, until lvl75+. This is just my thoughts.

Plus, can they make it so you can't use hypers in certain instances such as FCC up to a certain lvl? Personally, I feel that for them to do something like that will possibly take awhile.

Also, can PWE actually do that, or would it have to be devs (in China I'm assuming?)

Just pointing out that the third option doesn't seem to make much sense, but maybe most other people see it differently than I do.

Also, I do aggree with these options. Or at least they could do something about powerlving. The leader of the faction's against powerlvling because if people powerlvl, they can probably get to 9x+ in a few weeks, and if that's the case, in the long run, the player won't know how to play their character. Also, I think we've had once instance where someone left our faction because the leader, or nobody wanted to powerlvl them. He won't allow powerlvlers in the faction (if we can help it anyway).

I think any type of powerlvling should be nerfed. Nobody's going to want a lvl10x squad membber who powerlvled up to 9x+ who doesn't know how to play their character, and get squadwiped. One last point, powerlvlers are too lazy to lvl up themselves. I have a 102 archer whose done FCC less than 3 times, and an 86 BM whose done FCC only once and this was at 85.

BOO on powerlvling

EDIT: I just realized i missread the last option, do disregard my thoughts about this option. I still stand by my choice of dissallowing enterance to FCC prior to lvl75.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

Basic idea surrounding the 3rd option (which I voted for and signed the petition for) is FC and hypering is obviously the current trend for powerleveling. If you restrict only FC to its intended level of 75, then hyper stones can easily be abused elsewhere, such as "vortex-pleveling" or that might be called "zhenning" (not quite certain on that term) in pq area, etc. So just restricting FC would not be enough. Just restricting hypers to a level 75 requirement would be actually. And realistically, hypers are unnecessary until 75+ anyway.

Desdi - Sanctuary

To the people that keep talking about "hyper noobs". This thread isn't about them.

Besides, it's been proven time and again that powerleveling is not directly related to one's ability to play a class. There are people who have been playing for years and are still terrible while others I personally know and am friends with powerleveled and are very good.

Toliman - Raging Tide

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

To the people that keep talking about "hyper noobs". This thread isn't about them.

Besides, it's been proven time and again that powerleveling is not directly related to one's ability to play a class. There are people who have been playing for years and are still terrible while others I personally know and am friends with powerleveled and are very good.

I saw hyper leveled noobs in low - level armor.

They can't do anything except FC.

As soon as they start to do anything other they say about their squishy class or die from every other hit.

Edit:

Being level 105 you have friends level 100+ at least ...

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

Implement the third option and you will just kill off phoenix valley at lower level as well.
Phoenix valley -would be- the alternative for lower levels to FC and can not be spammed endlessly per day.

That is if they make FC only accessible for 75 and up, which I doubt will happen.

Another vote could be to revert FC to the instance it was before... with mat drops and a lot harder bosses b:shutup

Desdi - Sanctuary

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

I saw hyper leveled noobs in low - level armor.

They can't do anything except FC.

As soon as they start to do anything other they say about their squishy class or die from every other hit.

Edit:

Being level 105 you have friends level 100+ at least ...

I've already answered in my post so I'm not going to repeat myself. You've just brought an example of hyper-level noobs but I could just bring an example of hyper-level done right no point in starting a topic over it because it's just not the right thread here.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Implement the third option and you will just kill off phoenix valley at lower level as well.
Phoenix valley -would be- the alternative for lower levels to FC and can not be spammed endlessly per day.

That is if they make FC only accessible for 75 and up, which I doubt will happen.

Another vote could be to revert FC to the instance it was before... with mat drops and a lot harder bosses b:shutup

Nix valley in the lower level isn't all that necessary with the plethora of experience handed out now. It's not like you don't have other free methods of boosting your exp while you are doing things like PV at that level either that are also just handed out.

Reverting FC back to it's original state is a step that would come later, and the bosses in it were originally much harder than the bosses that are currently in the instance. I'm pretty sure that half the reason our FCC is different was because of people whining about how hard it was. But that was back before gear was in the boutique too.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nix valley in the lower level isn't all that necessary with the plethora of experience handed out now. It's not like you don't have other free methods of boosting your exp while you are doing things like PV at that level either that are also just handed out.

Reverting FC back to it's original state is a step that would come later, and the bosses in it were originally much harder than the bosses that are currently in the instance. I'm pretty sure that half the reason our FCC is different was because of people whining about how hard it was. But that was back before gear was in the boutique too.

Well, yes and no. My main point was that there will just be another dead instance in the game, or well... even deader than it already is. you can only enter PV for 15 minutes, I would say that, if people decide to level on the old way by questing, etc. 15 minutes of hyper in PV shouldn't be so much of an issue, it's not like the mobs in there give a lot of xp anyway.

I got in too late for the old FC with mat drops and harder bosses so I never got to see them, but I think there should -at least- be the option for which FC to run if someone is level 75 and up. Much like... I don't know, single or MP mode in TT/LG.
Make it a choice between XP instance and the harder instance.

I'd love to run the harder one and farm mats in it just for giggles or for alt gear, the gold gear doesn't look half bad for the level.

Then again i'd also love to see some sort of nirvana revamp among other things, but that's all besides the point.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Hmm I would be against the hyper lvl restriction too because some people may also just want to hyper grind on monsters. I also remember hyper leveling monsters in PQ. A seeker + mystic duo where one would vortex and the other would pull. We'd get nice EXP in addition to the quest's reward.

Keyborne - Raging Tide

with all the debate goin on about restricting FC and new players QQing about not being able to level like others did, noone seemed to mention or take into account that us older players who have lvld in FC DIDNT have people selling last room or selling solo runs to just carry us through the instance.
We worked for our levels ( even if we plvl an alt now using our main chars we have the right to. We didnt and dont need to leech of someone elses work )

So if anyone new or old wants to hyper level, let them if they can do it themselves.

- Make FC squad locked like nirvana so you cant add people in and out or sell levels. That would definately make people form better squads and think twice about kicking for lame reasons during a proper run too. ( not to mention the ones that kick the squad at last room to sell it for their own profit )

IF people wanna still QQ saying they cant leech of someone else's work after that.. lol i doubt the server would miss them

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well, yes and no. My main point was that there will just be another dead instance in the game, or well... even deader than it already is. you can only enter PV for 15 minutes, I would say that, if people decide to level on the old way by questing, etc. 15 minutes of hyper in PV shouldn't be so much of an issue, it's not like the mobs in there give a lot of xp anyway.

I got in too late for the old FC with mat drops and harder bosses so I never got to see them, but I think there should -at least- be the option for which FC to run if someone is level 75 and up. Much like... I don't know, single or MP mode in TT/LG.
Make it a choice between XP instance and the harder instance.

I'd love to run the harder one and farm mats in it just for giggles or for alt gear, the gold gear doesn't look half bad for the level.

Then again i'd also love to see some sort of nirvana revamp among other things, but that's all besides the point.

Yeah, it used to have solo and squad modes. It wouldn't be hard to code at all to have solo mode with it's old quests and still have the exp gains for the higher leveled players.

If the change was made in a fashion similar to that, the instance wouldn't die. You would have people farming mats in squad mode, and you would still have a lot of players using FCC to level above level 75.

Also, it's been my experience that PV gives close to the same exp as FCC. You just need to know how to play your toon well enough with the right gear to run it solo, or with only a couple of people.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Update: The petition currently has 42 signatures. If you've voted for this poll, please take the time to also sign the petition.

We're almost halfway there.
I do understand that signing that petition does require some more personal involvement than just posting anonymously on a forum, but it's for a good cause.

GlenRoss - Archosaur

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've already answered in my post so I'm not going to repeat myself. You've just brought an example of hyper-level noobs but I could just bring an example of hyper-level done right no point in starting a topic over it because it's just not the right thread here.

I've never seen a post arguing that every non-powerleveled player is good or that every powerleveled player is bad. Anecdotal contra-indicators do not disprove a clear trend, though. It's clearly a very significant factor.

mayral

Serious necromancer needed

WannaBM - Archosaur

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

I've never seen a post arguing that every non-powerleveled player is good or that every powerleveled player is bad. Anecdotal contra-indicators do not disprove a clear trend, though. It's clearly a very significant factor.

It sounds like a logical argiment maybe sure. But it is not me experience. It very least it is not a "clear" trent.

My experience is you have players who take gaming (too) serious. They will powerlevel fast and learn to play their toon using all the info they have at their disposal.
On the other hand you have people who play more casually. After playing casual for 3 years they reach lvl 100+ and still suck.

Thats also a logical sounding argument. I am not saying that is a clear trent instead. Just showing that you should name one part of the population a clear trent and saying the others are anecdotal contra-indicators just because what you call the clear trent is what sounds logical to you and may be based on a tiny group of players that you have experienced and are aware of their leveling history.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide

Honestly, in my opinion only, I will have to see with the removal of the DQ rewards, what they plan on replacing it with for the f2p players, and the possible auto-bot program, of which the first I am strongly against removal of, and the second sounds like an ability to bot in the open afk as a secondary RoR for xp which I'm against as well.

Revival of the game could be a mute point especially w the DQ removaland limited event gold, though I am still for FC level restriction.

GlenRoss - Archosaur

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It sounds like a logical argiment maybe sure. But it is not me experience. It very least it is not a "clear" trent.

My experience is you have players who take gaming (too) serious. They will powerlevel fast and learn to play their toon using all the info they have at their disposal.
On the other hand you have people who play more casually. After playing casual for 3 years they reach lvl 100+ and still suck.

Thats also a logical sounding argument. I am not saying that is a clear trent instead. Just showing that you should name one part of the population a clear trent and saying the others are anecdotal contra-indicators just because what you call the clear trent is what sounds logical to you and may be based on a tiny group of players that you have experienced and are aware of their leveling history.

True that I have not stalked the entire population of every server. (Still working on that.)
True that until I complete the stalking it is legitimate to dismiss my observation as incomplete.
True that I've only discussed the issue with a few hundred people with enough experience to be able to comprehend the difference.
True that you can simply disagree with me out-of-hand if you so choose.

All of that is so-stipulated.

That said, my observation is that the evidence of the difference is overwhelming. The observation of those with whom I've discussed the subject is overwhelming. Virtually all of the contradiction I've encountered has been from the opinions of powerlevelers themselves and from those who prey upon the powerlevelers for cash.

(No need to disclaim being in either of those categories. I'm not interested in pushing you to defend yourself, nor is it necessary for you to fit a profile to render your opinion. My statement is about information-in-the-large.)

Given that body of data, I have no doubt whatsoever that powerleveling, by and large, is a detriment to the quality of gameplay.

I understand that you do not and I respect your right to hold your own opinion, regardless of how wrong it is. b:chuckle

WannaBM - Archosaur

I still dont see a body of data, just hollow claims.

My body of data speaks differently.

You try to point out different motivations in those who are of different opinion then yours. Dont forget your camps different motivations then.
I am glad you respect me to have an opinion. You may have one too. But let it be an opinion and dont try to prove it as fact with data and bodies of evidence that are imaginary.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Given that body of data, I have no doubt whatsoever that powerleveling, by and large, is a detriment to the quality of gameplay.

I understand that you do not and I respect your right to hold your own opinion, regardless of how wrong it is. b:chuckle

What data?

Miugre - Heavens Tear

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I still dont see a body of data, just hollow claims.

My body of data speaks differently.

You try to point out different motivations in those who are of different opinion then yours. Dont forget your camps different motivations then.
I am glad you respect me to have an opinion. You may have one too. But let it be an opinion and dont try to prove it as fact with data and bodies of evidence that are imaginary.

And what body of data are you referring to, then? The one on the last page that specifically admitted that it's your personal experience?

At the end of the day, no one can make any statistically-based argument of whether the majority powerlevels or not. It all comes down to personal experience and observation. I, for instance, observed a healthy quantity of players in the questing fields during the week Frost hypering was disabled. If you spend 50% of your time on your endgame characters and the other 50% in Snowy either buying or selling powerleveling, of course you're going to believe that powerlevelers make up the vast majority.

Either way, that discussion will go nowhere without some hard data. And lacking access to any such data from the servers themselves (if they even record such things, which I seriously doubt), the best method we have to gauge opinion is a forum poll.

If there was such a vast majority of players who support powerleveling, then they all could've been here to vote. They don't have to be posters here, they all have an account automatically anyway. All they had to do was open the thread, login, and click vote, then go about their business. They didn't.

Xainou - Sanctuary

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If there was such a vast majority of players who support powerleveling, then they all could've been here to vote.

How do I vote on a poll when I agree with none of the options? Yea.


I don't agree with this whole cause of restricting FCC. Sure, I want the fun back that I had when I started. With people around and groups being formed. I'm all for "reviving the game". But just putting a cap on FCC won't do much. Imo it's a dumb solution on its own, seeing you're only making it harder for people to catch up to the "fun in game" that is left in this mess.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...
If there was such a vast majority of players who support powerleveling, then they all could've been here to vote. They don't have to be posters here, they all have an account automatically anyway. All they had to do was open the thread, login, and click vote, then go about their business. They didn't.

Especially since the poll was widely distributed among various media targets, on several faction websites, promoted in World chat, and even promoted by the GM's in system messages.

You could also compare the quality of the community on a server from how it was 4 years ago, to how it is now. Granted, that there are many factors that contribute to the decline of today's community standards, but this is also just a first step, of several.

GlenRoss - Archosaur

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I still dont see a body of data, just hollow claims.

My body of data speaks differently.

You try to point out different motivations in those who are of different opinion then yours. Dont forget your camps different motivations then.
I am glad you respect me to have an opinion. You may have one too. But let it be an opinion and dont try to prove it as fact with data and bodies of evidence that are imaginary.

Please re-read my post. I made it very clear that these were my observations and the observations of those with whom I've discussed the issue. No one tried to claim it was factual. You simply made that up because it gives you a rationale for your snarl. Excellent rebuttal of a point that you made up for me. Does nothing to rebut my post though.

What do you suppose "my camp's motivations" are? You suggest that there are some but can't even suggest one. How, other than raising the quality of gameplay (yes, in my opinion) do we benefit? More coins for us? Nope. More points for us? Nope. Step up to the plate, my friend. I'm interested in hearing the background to the hand-waving.

lol at the cheap pejoratives: "hollow claims", "imaginary evidence"

Yeah it's my opinion. I've said that all along. What of it?

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

How do I vote on a poll when I agree with none of the options? Yea.


I don't agree with this whole cause of restricting FCC. Sure, I want the fun back that I had when I started. With people around and groups being formed. I'm all for "reviving the game". But just putting a cap on FCC won't do much. Imo it's a dumb solution on its own, seeing you're only making it harder for people to catch up to the "fun in game" that is left in this mess.

Missed this while responding to Miguire.

Your poll is over. It was held here, and is the one I speak of in my previous post, and is also linked in my original post.

You haven't actually looked at how easy it is to level without FCC have you?

GlenRoss - Archosaur

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What data?

data = information

I don't see that as a difficult concept.

Nitpicking a word doesn't move the ball forward. When I make an observation, the information gained is data. When I discuss it with others, the information gained is data. Did I really need to explain that?

Xainou - Sanctuary

So your point is that we dont have a say anymore because a little more than half of the players voted for a restriction? That's bs.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

You haven't actually looked at how easy it is to level without FCC have you?

Nice assumption, totally wrong though.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

data = information

I don't see that as a difficult concept.

Nitpicking a word doesn't move the ball forward. When I make an observation, the information gained is data. When I discuss it with others, the information gained is data. Did I really need to explain that?

Ignore Janus. Remember, he's the one with the imaginary "silent majority".