Reviving The Game

Neferhotep - Lost City

Ive seen a time without FC-powerleveling years ago, ive seen broken FC months ago .... And it doesnt matter to me how many people lie to themselves, it DID revive low lvl Areas and low-lvl BHs. Thats just how it is, there is no point saying that it wont revive them when we already could see that it worked. I understand people who wanna powerlevel their alts that way and i know in our forum there are newbies as well who lvld to 101 with FCC and now dont want a change in their system. However, regardless of ones opinion theres no sense in saying "it didnt work" when it did. Sure, you can say the earth is a pink mix of sugar and unicorns, but it wont change the fact that its not.

I voted for disable both FC and Hypers for players below 75, because i fear that after some months without FC our beloved Nonstop-CSers will probably spend extreme amounts of money to Seekers doing their PV, what is a pretty fast way to lvl as well and those might become the new "PV-Babies" who never killed a mob themselve before 80+. But even with Hypers below 75, without FC it will be much less powerleveling since many normal players wouldnt pay so much just to get plvld while they could run the dungeon with a squad for free at their lvl.

With the current amount of Extra quests, you can lvl to 70 in no time without doing many regular quests. You get scarlet fruits every day and the exp is boosted up extremely, so dont say questing takes too long. The time people are wasting for Head-sells or soloing FC by their main they could also spend by just doing those quests and theyd get at least 10 lvls a day without spending money. And there ARE lots of new features for lowbies as well, most people just dont notice them because they dont try them with their alts.

Less FC/Hyper-powerleveling->more people around lowbie areas and bhs->more fun and chances for newbies and lowbies->more gameplay below 100-> more fun for everyone who actually wanna play the game. Its really not too complicated.

krisnda

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Closing FC hypering can be seen as a "negative" way to influence things. It means forbidding people to play the way they want and trying to force the way people play into another direction against their will.

Ok, you and all of the people opposing this keep making this argument that it will "limit the way that people want to play the game" and stuff like that. But you keep assuming that new players (listen here) know how to play the game in the first place! How is this option "limiting their options" if they are new in the game anyway? This seems like it's affecting the people like you, who are already lv 100+ and want to make alts. That's who it really affects, not new (new, fresh players who never played the game before) players who don't even know about the game when they just start playing, let alone read the forums.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Krisnda wrote: »

Ok, you and all of the people opposing this keep making this argument that it will "limit the way that people want to play the game" and stuff like that. But you keep assuming that new players (listen here) know how to play the game in the first place! How is this option "limiting their options" if they are new in the game anyway? This seems like it's affecting the people like you, who are already lv 100+ and want to make alts. That's who it really affects, not new (new, fresh players who never played the game before) players who don't even know about the game when they just start playing, let alone read the forums.

Thats what im saying yes. Its about the existing players. Those are the ones that you want to populate the low level areas right ? It would be great if it was only about the new players. Just use a huge marketting campain to get enough of them to populate the low areas by themselves and the whole problem would be solved. Existing players can keep their FC, new players can play together.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Given that yes, the true downfall to this F2P title was the introduction and explosion of the packs. I will agree with you on that point.

Then why are you crying about FF and hypers and saying this is in fact the downfall to this game? Derp.

You keep saying that we're seeking this nostalgic return to back in the day when that isn't it at all. If you can't get that out of your thick skull, you don't belong here.

On the contrary, that's exactly what this is about, no matter how you try to spin and re-brand nostalgia as something else, it still is just that.

The new quests were most likely created to enhance the lower level gameplay because on the server that the developers code for, they don't have the issue with everyone leveling in FCC.

Actually, as someone who worked for a competitor to PWE, we had subsidiaries in Asia that had an entirely different method of leveling because players on those servers preferred grinding over "questing" or cave exploring. The fact that things are done differently there to here is apples and orangutans.

I would love to hear some honest suggestions. Otherwise, all you're doing is regurgitating the same lame argument that isn't really an argument at all.

Physician, heal thyself! b:bye

Give a man a choice, and he will make it....
Option 1, Work hard, invest time, and get the reward.
Option 2, Pay a small fee and get the reward without having to work or wait.

I mean seriously. Look at the attention span of todays kids. It's a no-brainer.

The assumption that this is kids is interesting but this small paragraph illustrates, by "today's kids", that you believe "kids" were not like this before? Hence nostalgia. You have this grip on the past which you can't let go, I can sit here and quote endless posts about your "past" fetish, and you think that disguising it as something else is going to fool people like myself who see what this idea really is all about. It's actually not hard to begin with -- targeting FF and hypers is a horrific premise right from the get-go and ignores most other things PWI has done, and the fact that you can't undo those things, nor can you make the game into the world-populating low-level non-hyper non-anni-pack utopia you fondly remember, is why vocal opposition doesn't believe your past fetish, and ridiculous excuses about "kids attention spans" justifies this up-on-one's-pedestal attitude that you should be dictating to others how they play when they've already spoken, not by silly polls on a forum mainly populated by malcontents and trolls, but by actually playing.

In the end, you always have the option of playing the way you prefer -- without FF until 75 or 85, without hypers until then. Why you're getting resistance is not only the asinine argument, but your idea isn't merely to adjust how you play but to force others to play your envisioned way too. No thanks.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Thats what im saying yes. Its about the existing players. Those are the ones that you want to populate the low level areas right ? It would be great if it was only about the new players. Just use a huge marketting campain to get enough of them to populate the low areas by themselves and the whole problem would be solved.

So, aside from the possibility of offending the existing players by "taking away" something that only exists in our version of the game...

What else have you got?


Because look at it this way...

Our version is the one with the problem.

Our version is the one with Hypers in FCC and the power-creep.


Based on that, it's only common sense, that to begin fixing our version, you start by fixing the changes that make our version different.


Which is easier, limiting an instance to allow the level of characters inside it to those levels it was designed for, or completely changing the stats on gear that people have spent a lot of time and money on?

I mean seriously. Think about it.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, aside from the possibility of offending the existing players by "taking away" something that only exists in our version of the game...

What else have you got?


Because look at it this way...

Our version is the one with the problem.

Our version is the one with Hypers in FCC and the power-creep.


Based on that, it's only common sense, that to begin fixing our version, you start by fixing the changes that make our version different.


Which is easier, limiting an instance to allow the level of characters inside it to those levels it was designed for, or completely changing the stats on gear that people have spent a lot of time and money on?

I mean seriously. Think about it.

Our playerbase doesn't play the same way the playerbase from China does.

If you want PWCN why not play there?

There is no magical fix for what has been done to PWI. This is the will by both PWE and by the players that play. You can't gut the way players play, and have played for years, and expect people to stay, nor expect that a non-playing population suddenly becomes interested in PWI.

But commence with the "I know what's best for you all" spiel. Clearly you're effectively a pro at imagining things.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

So you agree that just closing FC from hypering will not help.

No. And then you attempt to use terminologies from logic while yourself using compound statements? I strictly stated that Restricting FC + Hypers at 75 will help, but will not be enough in and of itself (or by itself) to have full benefit to the longevity of the game itself.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It will not help to make people populate the low level areas.

Which people do you refer to?

Part I. The players already playing PWI? There would be no FC to powerlevel in => There would only be the intended areas to go to. The second aspect of this (entailing those that already play PWI), we as players are NOT entitled to having every class PWI has to offer at max level. RPG MMO, cope with it and get over yourself.

And again...

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It will not help to make people populate the low level areas.

Which people do you refer to?

Part II. The players that have never played PWI? They would know nothing about a way to powerlevel, not even likely the questmaster npc, nor the lucid npc... THESE people would start to make the lower level areas actually look like they have LIFE again... And the group from "Part I" of this answer... guess what? Would also be added to the mix in lower level areas... AND HOLY ****ing b:fatb! People would actually group up, because they could do so.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It will only agrivate them.

Only self centered and self entitled people such as yourself would become aggravated. No one else. The people that actually have the mind to understand WHY this needs to be done, would deal with it... even if it annoyed them at all. The new people? They would simply see a game with LIFE.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

You say it could work in combination with other actions like creating something interesting for the existing players to come and welcome the new players in low level areas. right ? Closing FC hypering can be seen as a "negative" way to influence things.

Again, only to self centered and self entitled people such as yourself. There is nothing negative about implementing a Resitriction on FC and Hypers till 75.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

It means forbidding people to play the way they want and trying to force the way people play into another direction against their will.

Again, only according to self centered and self entitled people such as yourself.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Those other actions that could be done can be seen as a "positive" way to influence things.

OH! Yeah, you mean starting people at level 100? Or was it buffering up the intended game to dish out xps to give +10-20 levels per quest?

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Making it interesting for players to be there and hopefully drawing them into a direction out of their own will.

Again... b:cry

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Why do you think you should start with the negative first ?

Lol... the "negative" as you like to label it as, is actually the "positive" that needs to be implemented... The last few posts I have posted can not be any more outright blunt.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Why do you so zealously focus on this, and not on the positive ?

Why are you looking at this issue from a perspective of being self centered and self entitled? We have no entitlement to what you want, because you want what you want and that is the only answer to everything... You are a perfect example of the type of creature this world now breeds... everything must be your way and now... heaven forbid you can not have it all, or when you want or as you want or the way you want... I truly pity your type. One day, real life will not be so forgiving...

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

No. And then you attempt to use terminologies from logic while yourself using compound statements? I strictly stated that Restricting FC + Hypers at 75 will help, but will not be enough in and of itself (or by itself) to have full benefit to the longevity of the game itself.
Which people do you refer to?

Part I. The players already playing PWI? There would be no FC to powerlevel in => There would only be the intended areas to go to. The second aspect of this (entailing those that already play PWI), we as players are NOT entitled to having every class PWI has to offer at max level. RPG MMO, cope with it and get over yourself.

And again... Which people do you refer to?

Part II. The players that have never played PWI? They would know nothing about a way to powerlevel, not even likely the questmaster npc, nor the lucid npc... THESE people would start to make the lower level areas actually look like they have LIFE again... And the group from "Part I" of this answer... guess what? Would also be added to the mix in lower level areas... AND HOLY ****ing b:fatb! People would actually group up, because they could do so.
Only self centered and self entitled people such as yourself would become aggravated. No one else. The people that actually have the mind to understand WHY this needs to be done, would deal with it... even if it annoyed them at all. The new people? They would simply see a game with LIFE.
Again, only to self centered and self entitled people such as yourself. There is nothing negative about implementing a Resitriction on FC and Hypers till 75.
Again, only according to self centered and self entitled people such as yourself.
OH! Yeah, you mean starting people at level 100? Or was it buffering up the intended game to dish out xps to give +10-20 levels per quest?
Again... b:cry
Lol... the "negative" as you like to label it as, is actually the "positive" that needs to be implemented... The last few posts I have posted can not be any more outright blunt.
Why are you looking at this issue from a perspective of being self centered and self entitled? We have no entitlement to what you want, because you want what you want and that is the only answer to everything... You are a perfect example of the type of creature this world now breeds... everything must be your way and now... heaven forbid you can not have it all, or when you want or as you want or the way you want... I truly pity your type. One day, real life will not be so forgiving...

I'm interested as to where you derive this connection between hyper FF powerleveling and entitlement.

Hyper powerlevels require coins, or a high level endgame player who can level their own alts, entitlement costs nothing because one is evidently entitled to it.

Plenty of us who had high level mains, before hyper FF was out, did our quests for our low level alts. I suppose that and doing lowbie FB's was entitlement too? I don't think you fully understand what you're saying, clearly with this "real world" diatribe you have invested far too much emotion and dramatics into the issue.

Also, people who prefer to quest and not powerlevel, the option is already there. Given the noise you small group of players are making on the forums about this surely you can find partners on the server to group up and do low level quests if that's what you desire.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Thats what im saying yes. Its about the existing players. Those are the ones that you want to populate the low level areas right ? It would be great if it was only about the new players. Just use a huge marketting campain to get enough of them to populate the low areas by themselves and the whole problem would be solved. Existing players can keep their FC, new players can play together.

Actually what everyone has been saying is that this is not about existing players, but about new players. A lot of new players quit because the game is empty in the early levels, and we want them to stick around. A lot of them go to powerlevelling just so that they can be of a level to play with other people, then end up quitting or being unhappy because they don't have the money for gear/skills to progress or are bored because they skipped so much content. Most people that play MMOs enjoy the social aspect of the game, and come into them expecting to be able to play with others. Are they going to stick around when they go through level after level seeing no other players? I can say no, because I have tried and left other games for that exact reason. It doesn't help that most of the well-populated factions will not accept low level players, so they are often stuck in very inactive ones getting no answers to their questions and no help when asked.

Existing players who want to level alts already know their way around the game, and they can level damn fast without FF because of it. The game gives out so many exp items in the early levels that it is ridiculous, but a lot of it is stuff not widely advertised which gives existing players the advantage there and keeps new players from rushing too much (though quests alone are pretty fast now too). Existing players also have the option to use hypers in other venues since they know the game well, and have higher alts to support the low ones in whatever levelling method they choose to use.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

...Given the noise you small group of players are making on the forums...

IF the small group is the current majority, what does that make your group? Because the minority, can not be bigger than the majority.

Well, not in this dimension anyway.


As far as

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"I'm interested as to where you derive this connection between hyper FF powerleveling and entitlement."

You haven't been reading WannaBM's posts very well have you?b:chuckle

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually what everyone has been saying is that this is not about existing players, but about new players. A lot of new players quit because the game is empty in the early levels, and we want them to stick around. A lot of them go to powerlevelling just so that they can be of a level to play with other people, then end up quitting or being unhappy because they don't have the money for gear/skills to progress or are bored because they skipped so much content. Most people that play MMOs enjoy the social aspect of the game, and come into them expecting to be able to play with others. Are they going to stick around when they go through level after level seeing no other players? I can say no, because I have tried and left other games for that exact reason. It doesn't help that most of the well-populated factions will not accept low level players, so they are often stuck in very inactive ones getting no answers to their questions and no help when asked.

Existing players who want to level alts already know their way around the game, and they can level damn fast without FF because of it. The game gives out so many exp items in the early levels that it is ridiculous, but a lot of it is stuff not widely advertised which gives existing players the advantage there and keeps new players from rushing too much (though quests alone are pretty fast now too). Existing players also have the option to use hypers in other venues since they know the game well, and have higher alts to support the low ones in whatever levelling method they choose to use.

NO. People don't tend to powerlevel due to the innocently stated "to play with other people", they powerlevel to experience high level quests, high level content, and high level rewards. They quickly find out people make an army of alts just to have a higher chance of getting ecstasys and excitement cards from BH, and so an immediate investment into a low level character to make them high level will reap FAR better in-game financial repercussions (not only from BH but other things too like warsong runs, 2x lunar runs (right path especially), and so on, than being low level. PW pushes them there with hypers existing, and with significantly modified/enhanced quest XP+items that give XP. Players happily oblige.

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

IF the small group is the current majority, what does that make your group? Because the minority, can not be bigger than the majority.

Well, not in this dimension anyway.


As far as


You haven't been reading WannaBM's posts very well have you?b:chuckle

You are not in the majority. If you were, you wouldn't be vying for people to change the way they play now, because you and they would be in the majority. Nice try though.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually what everyone has been saying is that this is not about existing players, but about new players. A lot of new players quit because the game is empty in the early levels, and we want them to stick around. A lot of them go to powerlevelling just so that they can be of a level to play with other people, then end up quitting or being unhappy because they don't have the money for gear/skills to progress or are bored because they skipped so much content. Most people that play MMOs enjoy the social aspect of the game, and come into them expecting to be able to play with others. Are they going to stick around when they go through level after level seeing no other players? I can say no, because I have tried and left other games for that exact reason. It doesn't help that most of the well-populated factions will not accept low level players, so they are often stuck in very inactive ones getting no answers to their questions and no help when asked.

Existing players who want to level alts already know their way around the game, and they can level damn fast without FF because of it. The game gives out so many exp items in the early levels that it is ridiculous, but a lot of it is stuff not widely advertised which gives existing players the advantage there and keeps new players from rushing too much (though quests alone are pretty fast now too). Existing players also have the option to use hypers in other venues since they know the game well, and have higher alts to support the low ones in whatever levelling method they choose to use.

Dont you think 99% of the FC users are existing players ? Exactly like you say, because the new players A) dont know about it. dont have higher level alts to run it for them C) dont have the coins to pay other players to do it for them.

FC = the realm of those existing players who know their way around and have the means to use this. It is not where you find the new players that dont have any coins or even the 1k steams and snowy waypoints.

It may not be what you think, but im pretty confident that the majority of FC haters want to close it with the intention of having the existing players populate the low level areas with the new alts they make.

StabbyCakes - Heavens Tear

I'm with these last posters. **** you guys, we need faster ways to level not less fast ways.


I refuse to go back to 2009 when it took like 2 years to get a toon to 90, and forget about anything higher.

I like the game just the way it is. Sure it needs a little more content, but it's pretty balanced on the leveling side. Plenty of quests for noobs (YEARS worth, trust me I Know...) quick leveling methods for the oldnubs.... newnubs can use them but it SHOWS THAT THEY HAVE... lol


Yeah, **** this whole idea. OP obviously didn't play this game in the beginning or he wouldn't be complaining. All of us original players are like OH THANK GOD I DON'T HAVE TO DO ALL -THAT- AGAIN.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide

You folks that are adamantly opposed to restricting the use of hypers/entering FC until level 75, did you all not play when hypers were disabled for the week? Did you decide, no FC, I'm not playing.

As many of us have stated, the low level areas, the low BHs, low level PV, were well populated, active, friendly, and other than a few people whining in wc, I think it was seen as a positive for the game. And during that week I played as low levels, was in like level squads for the low bhs, was invited to join small teams in the low level areas when we found more players doing the same quests, and continued our squads and picked up more quests. It was fun. During that week most of the bhs I was a part of, we didnt want a high level to run the instance and did it within 10 or so levels, sometimes a few more, but nothing extreme. We killed or had fun trying to kill some of the mini bosses, etc. And most of us had high level mains.

So was FC being disabled for a week beneficial, I would say hell yes it was.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

You folks that are adamantly opposed to restricting the use of hypers/entering FC until level 75, did you all not play when hypers were disabled for the week? Did you decide, no FC, I'm not playing.

As many of us have stated, the low level areas, the low BHs, low level PV, were well populated, active, friendly, and other than a few people whining in wc, I think it was seen as a positive for the game. And during that week I played as low levels, was in like level squads for the low bhs, was invited to join small teams in the low level areas when we found more players doing the same quests, and continued our squads and picked up more quests. It was fun. During that week most of the bhs I was a part of, we didnt want a high level to run the instance and did it within 10 or so levels, sometimes a few more, but nothing extreme. We killed or had fun trying to kill some of the mini bosses, etc. And most of us had high level mains.

So was FC being disabled for a week beneficial, I would say hell yes it was.

You had a good experience, and that experience was clearly embellished. You've taken that period where people maximize their XP by doing BH (which they would do regardless of this idealized hyper FF powerleveling being nixed) and turned it into some religious experience.

Between the short period when BH came out and hypers came out, players of low and mid levels were maximizing their XP doing a mix of BH squads and oracles, as well as those "crusade order/wanted" quests. This wasn't the religious experience you're turning this into, it was people simply finding any way they could to get to endgame.

Although, there wasn't such overt incentive to be endgame then as there is now. Consider that part too. Just about everything this game does in 2013 caters to endgame people, so the fact this small niche of malcontents are targeting low level players to add barriers to them experiencing the game as most other players do now, under the exaggerated premise of "saving the game", is just as short sighted as PWI adding anni packs to the boutique.

Eoria - Harshlands

People will just pay others to plvl their chars to 75 in other dungeons once the logistics are figured out. And then we just end up back at essentially the same "problem".

Game won't go back to how it was in the "glory days" for a variety of reasons. For one, there's pretty much no advertising for it anymore. For two, a lot of people have just simply moved on. Majority of the people still playing either just really like the game/people or they just haven't found a different game that's caught their interest yet. Killing hypers in FC won't change it. Thousands of people aren't magically going to flock to the game again. Doesn't work like that. The lower level areas would be populated for all of about two weeks by people's alts before other powerleveling services pop up.

Now, if PWI would work out how to merge the servers and start advertising heavily after they've done so, that might rekindle some interest.

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Now, if PWI would work out how to merge the servers and start advertising heavily after they've done so, that might rekindle some interest.

If I derail this a little a bit i do apologize, its just to pop in an idea for maybe if they decided to run an advertising contest, like how they asked us to place music to the Genesis expansion.

Multiple videos created by the public advertising the game would attract quite a bit of attention,(or not), but its worth a try It's probably not the right time to go suggesting this since our CM syncroze is only temporary

Eoria - Harshlands

Esnemyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If I derail this a little a bit i do apologize, its just to pop in an idea for maybe if they decided to run an advertising contest, like how they asked us to place music to the Genesis expansion.

Multiple videos created by the public advertising the game would attract quite a bit of attention,(or not), but its worth a try It's probably not the right time to go suggesting this since our CM syncroze is only temporary

Well, first thing, we probably need to get a new permanent CM, but at this point, I'm not sure if that will even happen considering how long Rozey's been here by now.

Desdi - Sanctuary

I wish they'd do another contest like that blockbuster summer trailer or whatever it was named. There were a lot of creative PWI trailers that even up to this day I go back to watch sometimes. It's not even because it's PWI but just because the trailers were nice.

/offtopic

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You had a good experience, and that experience was clearly embellished. You've taken that period where people maximize their XP by doing BH (which they would do regardless of this idealized hyper FF powerleveling being nixed) and turned it into some religious experience.

Between the short period when BH came out and hypers came out, players of low and mid levels were maximizing their XP doing a mix of BH squads and oracles, as well as those "crusade order/wanted" quests. This wasn't the religious experience you're turning this into, it was people simply finding any way they could to get to endgame.

Although, there wasn't such overt incentive to be endgame then as there is now. Consider that part too. Just about everything this game does in 2013 caters to endgame people, so the fact this small niche of malcontents are targeting low level players to add barriers to them experiencing the game as most other players do now, under the exaggerated premise of "saving the game", is just as short sighted as PWI adding anni packs to the boutique.

You are way too stuck on endgame. In your eyes, the game should be automatically level 100 so people can experience the game as you see it. You may not word it exactly so, but all you reference is endgame this and endgame that. You do realize most of the people that have quit over the past few months are those that are at endgame and are bored. Oh joy and ecstasy/excitement card. Yippee. Oh, another FWS for the 10th time in a day in hopes of getting some random drop. Yippee. Free Lunar my EoD, yippee. AEU, Aba, SoT, rinse and repeat, bored. Quit. Link weapon fast squad...kiss my a$$

Over the last year and a half I've had many friends quit the game because they have reached endgame to the point they are doing the same quests over and over and over again. Some even with R9+ gear. And guess what? 99% have not come back. They like me thought NW was fun the first few times, but then got bored with it as well. Most of us chose a PvE server for a reason. We don't like the mentality of the PvP crowd. They act like spoiled whiny brats. TW factions are a joke. They have so many QQing in WC over each other its mind boggling. As for TW, I wouldn't care if I had the max endgame gear, I wouldn't join one anyway. As I said, their world chat diatribe is bad enough. I can't imagine being in one of the endgame gear TW factions. PvP on RT anyway, is like a slab of idiot sandwiched between two slices of moron, served with a chilled glass of whine.

To say everyone wants to reach endgame as fast as they can "because that's where its at" is a foolish notion. Its not just low levels that can't find others to play an MMO with in low to mid level areas, or help with like level players for BHs that are quitting, it is ALSO HIGH LEVELS that are quitting. Why? Because according to any high level that joins a low level BH, they are "BORED" and already have done their daily quests. Don't you get that? They are B O R E D. Even with new content you so adamantly say is attractive to high levels...many are bored, including myself hence the reason of trying to find some way to make the game enticing for new players. Not us high levels with more alts than fingers and toes. And as a new player in an MMO, I don't want to reach endgame in a matter of days, weeks, or a couple of months. Hell, even as a veteran player, I don't want my alts to do so. But I will be damned if I'm going to keep playing a game where low and mid level areas are empty, and the only viable way to play the game is basically solo, or with others in FC so I can get to endgame and be bored all over again when I reach it.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Endgame content is well within reason, completely changing a game and the way people play it is another. In business sense, your idea is terrible.

If it all comes down to business sense, then this is just going back to the "is it worth it to revive the game" debate. F2P market, shelf life, etc. etc. etc... we've trod this ground before. The difference is that PWI wasn't built like a F2P cash grab, and it has every potential to be around for a lot longer than it will be at this rate... but only if we make some changes.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

While we're busy making generalizations, every "I've got an idea to save the game" "pie in the sky" poster that comes around believes they know what's best for a game -- this one I'm quoting is no different. I'm not going to address the "caring" nonsense because you pulled that one straight out of your ***.

Really, are you sure about that?

(I'll argue with them when I have the free time and am taking a short break from playing, I don't care)

If you don't want me to generalize, don't say the same line that every troll says when they start losing steam. Also, funny how the argument you make "while we're busy making generalizations" is just the same damn argument you've made the entire thread, so gg there.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

See, my rationale is, people vote by the way they play.

So it wouldn't matter at all if people "support" others leveling the way they did, just like people QQing on the forums and not "supporting" others getting the rank gear they cs'd/farmed and complaining about people who are OP. There is no listening to hypocrites.

So a person who gains R9 and complains about power creep is a hypocrite, and a person who did any powerleveling without personally believing in it is a hypocrite as well... do I have that right? So I suppose in your book, the only way to ever complain about something is if you don't personally do it, right? Oh wait, people like that are all pie-in-the-sky fantasists, aren't they? Guess no one should ever complain about anything again, ever. Boy, isn't that convenient for you?

Well sadly for you, that mindset exists whether you personally approve of it or not. Though I guess I can't blame you for putting the blinders on against anything which would undercut your inane silent-majority argument... I mean, it's not like you have much else.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Bingo. Which is why you're trying to change the way people play.

It's very simple, if people wanted to play your way, they would. They obviously have the opportunity to.

But in the end, they don't. Game, set, match.

We already have high-level help available to any newbie who asks for it. The idea I responded to DarkSkiesx with was a faction full of lowbie alts which helped newbies, and the reason it won't get enough traction is because it would require a level of organization that 99.99% of people are only willing to do on their mains, if at all. This level of organization is absent entirely from basic field questing. You're comparing apples to oranges here.

The rest of this portion I've already covered above.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Let's not talk about "winning" and "losing" because you can simply make a poll on a forum more populated with malcontents and non-players than active ones who speak by playing. You're the one trying to restrict others' gameplay because you're losing a battle of controlling the way new players can level. They clearly don't level your way, they don't play upon the conditions you wish them to play under, which is why you want to change it.

The best way to win over people might first to be to realistically understand the situation, and to get rid of the delusions of grandeur you have. Unfortunately, you're still living in this cloud that you know what's best for this game and are somehow trying to valiantly save it by restricting how low players can level/play. Given the populace that clearly powerlevels, hence you trying to change it, you are flying against the wind, not with it.

I've already responded to you about the accuracy of forum polls. There are not 1800 non-players active on the forums. I'm sorry you have a hard time accepting hard evidence that doesn't agree with you, but that's no excuse for all the inflammatory fluff that's been padded around your arguments like so much toxic packing foam. You realize there's a reason I'm not responding to most of it, right? It's because I don't wish to stoop to the same level of ad hominem attacks that you're using.

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

One last attempt to reason:

So you agree that just closing FC from hypering will not help. It will not help to make people populate the low level areas. It will only agrivate them. You say it could work in combination with other actions like creating something interesting for the existing players to come and welcome the new players in low level areas. right ?

Closing FC hypering can be seen as a "negative" way to influence things. It means forbidding people to play the way they want and trying to force the way people play into another direction against their will.

Those other actions that could be done can be seen as a "positive" way to influence things. Making it interesting for players to be there and hopefully drawing them into a direction out of their own will.

Why do you think you should start with the negative first ?
Why do you so zealously focus on this, and not on the positive ?

Because we're already oversaturated with buffs and power creep, and the only way you could make field questing more attractive than Frost powerleveling is to make it level people faster than Frost powerleveling, which defeats the entire point.

Wanmei has coded themselves into a corner here. We are full to capacity with free exp, free coin, free gear, free charms, free buffs, free atk/def level blessings... you name it, the lowgame has been buffed the hell out of with it already, and none of it is helping new player retention. Any more buffs and we may as well be a private server.

The only solution here is to tone down the leveling speed (and probably a few other things). You cannot be afraid to remove something once in a while. If wanmei can't do that, they are not functioning as a dev house. And if we can't handle that necessity without freaking the hell out, we are not functioning as a community.



EDIT: Holy ****, another two pages went by in the 4+ hours I had the edit window open in-between work. *sigh*

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are way too stuck on endgame. In your eyes, the game should be automatically level 100 so people can experience the game as you see it. You may not word it exactly so, but all you reference is endgame this and endgame that. You do realize most of the people that have quit over the past few months are those that are at endgame and are bored. Oh joy and ecstasy/excitement card. Yippee. Oh, another FWS for the 10th time in a day in hopes of getting some random drop. Yippee. Free Lunar my EoD, yippee. AEU, Aba, SoT, rinse and repeat, bored. Quit. Link weapon fast squad...kiss my a$$

Over the last year and a half I've had many friends quit the game because they have reached endgame to the point they are doing the same quests over and over and over again. Some even with R9+ gear. And guess what? 99% have not come back. They like me thought NW was fun the first few times, but then got bored with it as well. Most of us chose a PvE server for a reason. We don't like the mentality of the PvP crowd. They act like spoiled whiny brats. TW factions are a joke. They have so many QQing in WC over each other its mind boggling. As for TW, I wouldn't care if I had the max endgame gear, I wouldn't join one anyway. As I said, their world chat diatribe is bad enough. I can't imagine being in one of the endgame gear TW factions. PvP on RT anyway, is like a slab of idiot sandwiched between two slices of moron, served with a chilled glass of whine.

To say everyone wants to reach endgame as fast as they can "because that's where its at" is a foolish notion. Its not just low levels that can't find others to play an MMO with in low to mid level areas, or help with like level players for BHs that are quitting, it is ALSO HIGH LEVELS that are quitting. Why? Because according to any high level that joins a low level BH, they are "BORED" and already have done their daily quests. Don't you get that? They are B O R E D. Even with new content you so adamantly say is attractive to high levels...many are bored, including myself hence the reason of trying to find some way to make the game enticing for new players. Not us high levels with more alts than fingers and toes. And as a new player in an MMO, I don't want to reach endgame in a matter of days, weeks, or a couple of months. Hell, even as a veteran player, I don't want my alts to do so. But I will be damned if I'm going to keep playing a game where low and mid level areas are empty, and the only viable way to play the game is basically solo, or with others in FC so I can get to endgame and be bored all over again when I reach it.

It seems to me you have trouble coping with the reality of the situation, hence mocking not me, but the active population pretty much across the board.. quite a lot of vitriol.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If it all comes down to business sense, then this is just going back to the "is it worth it to revive the game" debate. F2P market, shelf life, etc. etc. etc... we've trod this ground before. The difference is that PWI wasn't built like a F2P cash grab, and it has every potential to be around for a lot longer than it will be at this rate... but only if we make some changes.

Really, are you sure about that?

If you don't want me to generalize, don't say the same line that every troll says when they start losing steam. Also, funny how the argument you make "while we're busy making generalizations" is just the same damn argument you've made the entire thread, so gg there.

So a person who gains R9 and complains about power creep is a hypocrite, and a person who did any powerleveling without personally believing in it is a hypocrite as well... do I have that right? So I suppose in your book, the only way to ever complain about something is if you don't personally do it, right? Oh wait, people like that are all pie-in-the-sky fantasists, aren't they? Guess no one should ever complain about anything again, ever. Boy, isn't that convenient for you?

Well sadly for you, that mindset exists whether you personally approve of it or not. Though I guess I can't blame you for putting the blinders on against anything which would undercut your inane silent-majority argument... I mean, it's not like you have much else.

We already have high-level help available to any newbie who asks for it. The idea I responded to DarkSkiesx with was a faction full of lowbie alts which helped newbies, and the reason it won't get enough traction is because it would require a level of organization that 99.99% of people are only willing to do on their mains, if at all. This level of organization is absent entirely from basic field questing. You're comparing apples to oranges here.

The rest of this portion I've already covered above.

I've already responded to you about the accuracy of forum polls. There are not 1800 non-players active on the forums. I'm sorry you have a hard time accepting hard evidence that doesn't agree with you, but that's no excuse for all the inflammatory fluff that's been padded around your arguments like so much toxic packing foam. You realize there's a reason I'm not responding to most of it, right? It's because I don't wish to stoop to the same level of ad hominem attacks that you're using.

Because we're already oversaturated with buffs and power creep, and the only way you could make field questing more attractive than Frost powerleveling is to make it level people faster than Frost powerleveling, which defeats the entire point.

Wanmei has coded themselves into a corner here. We are full to capacity with free exp, free coin, free gear, free charms, free buffs, free atk/def level blessings... you name it, the lowgame has been buffed the hell out of with it already, and none of it is helping new player retention. Any more buffs and we may as well be a private server.

The only solution here is to tone down the leveling speed (and probably a few other things). You cannot be afraid to remove something once in a while. If wanmei can't do that, they are not functioning as a dev house. And if we can't handle that necessity without freaking the hell out, we are not functioning as a community.

EDIT: Holy ****, another two pages went by in the 4+ hours I had the edit window open in-between work. *sigh*

Leveling speed has been increased because this game is older and fewer people care to experience the slow leveling, low level goodness you are making seem like is that important. If it were, players who play PWI wouldn't have been pushed from the get-go to endgame would they? Wanmei wants players endgame. Quests and normal XP alike has long been tuned up to make getting endgame easier. If you want to experience questing the way we once did with a population that was mostly lower levels, you have to do it yourself. There is no making PWI what it was in 2008-2009, which is clearly what you're asking. This population does not want to sit at lower levels when the vast majority of gameplay and rewards are at endgame. You can't simply undo something and pretend that's a solution, that's the fantasy scenario this topic is entirely about. Oh, and regarding "PWI wasn't built like a F2P cash grab" -- proven wrong as of September 2009 and ever since. Have you been playing since then? Clearly PWI is meant to be a short term experiment, hence the short term cash grabs and ridiculously cheap endgame gear. Their stock is quite reflective of their long term vs. short term management.

Nature_God - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And you do?

That was tough.


PV was another instance because logically one shouldn't need only one option for leveling, esp with mob XP (counter to rebirth, which is technically quest based XP, and can't be hypered).

As for the ideas, first get to the depths of what's being argued instead of making these odd out-in-left-field paraphrases of what's been iterated.

First, PWI has been out since 2008. It's declining not because of hypers or FF but because other games are far more interesting.. all games die out. Where is the acknowledgement of this? Just fantasy responses that make games run for profit with a horrific short term model survive long term magically.

Second, the active playerbase clearly very little interest in questing. They have that option, they elect not to. That adequately sums up what players want. For those who think PWI should implement their subjectively fun version of a game maybe they should consider making their own server or game?

Third, given what the player base wants, the best place to aim at is retention. Players are retained by content, not by forcing lowbies to quest. Lowbies aren't retained by being forced to quest. Low areas aren't populated by being forced to quest, especially with how quickly quests evidently level people now too.

From what this is, it's the targeting of FF and hypers as a personal style of play that certain players do not like, they have this ideal that stems from when the game was thriving back in 2008 and 2009, most people were low levels, they were questing, PWI had not yet thrown anni packs into the boutique.

When PWI introduced the anni pack in September 2009 that should have thrown out any mindset that this game was meant for long term, further affirmation with hyper stones, dropping mob kill counts in quests/culti, and "super quests" were introduced. So people have known exactly the direction this game has taken for the last 4 years. Pretending one can undo that by targeting FF and hypers as a "first step" (or any "step") is a terrible idea.

I did not claim anywhere that I know, but I have few ideas. And before you start correcting others, you should instead post your wisdom to Suggestion Thread about how to revive the game. There. That is, if you know how to revive the game at all. Which I doubt you do.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Nature_God - Sanctuary wrote: »

I did not claim anywhere that I know, but I have few ideas. And before you start correcting others, you should instead post your wisdom to Suggestion Thread about how to revive the game. There. That is, if you know how to revive the game at all. Which I doubt you do.

Given I'm taking issue with the premise of the OP, I think I'll post here, mod junior. Feel free to take your own advice though. What I wouldn't waste time on is trying to squelch others you disagree with from debating, although it's been a pretty common theme in this thread.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

POLL I Results :

Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

Yes 180 9.86%
No 659 36.09%
Lv restricted 987 54.05%

Voters: 1826. This poll is closed

Too bad those that oppose this current poll forget that their opposition had it's chance. That ship came and went. This thread is the aftermath of that poll. That is the reality. Have a cup of reality, or sip of the "other" cup b:quiet b:bye

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

POLL I Results :

Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

Yes 180 9.86%
No 659 36.09%
Lv restricted 987 54.05%

Voters: 1826. This poll is closed

Too bad those that oppose this current poll forget that their opposition had it's chance. That ship came and went. This thread is the aftermath of that poll. That is the reality. Have a cup of reality, or sip of the "other" cup b:quiet b:bye

The forum poll and these butthurt posts about people hyper FF powerleveling seem to forget their position within the game as a minority by the active playerbase.. because if people actually wanted FF hyper powerleveling gone they'd stop doing it. But hyper FF powerleveling thrives because this is the #1 choice of the player base on how to level, hence you trying to change it and pull this hype nonsense like you have the support of the player base.

I don't blame you for the pick me up though, if I was trying this hard to market this being a popular choice I'd ignore what's really going on in game too.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Leveling speed has been increased because this game is older and fewer people care to experience the slow leveling, low level goodness you are making seem like is that important. If it were, players who play PWI wouldn't have been pushed from the get-go to endgame would they? Wanmei wants players endgame. Quests and normal XP alike has long been tuned up to make getting endgame easier. If you want to experience questing the way we once did with a population that was mostly lower levels, you have to do it yourself. There is no making PWI what it was in 2008-2009, which is clearly what you're asking. This population does not want to sit at lower levels when the vast majority of gameplay and rewards are at endgame. You can't simply undo something and pretend that's a solution, that's the fantasy scenario this topic is entirely about. Oh, and regarding "PWI wasn't built like a F2P cash grab" -- proven wrong as of September 2009 and ever since. Have you been playing since then? Clearly PWI is meant to be a short term experiment, hence the short term cash grabs and ridiculously cheap endgame gear. Their stock is quite reflective of their long term vs. short term management.

How come do you keep repeating yourself by making the word "nostalgia" something hideous or ugly? From every reply you've made on here its all bout "nostalgia", endgame and how everything is bout endgame when all those statements are basically based off your own opinion of the matter regardless of how much experience you've had over the last who cares years of being in the gaming industry. Ever heard of the word "convenience?" The only real reason why the very few newbies that come into the game and the alts of main high lvls that powerlvl is cause of this very issue. If its convenient for someone to not have to go through the same old, rusty, run-down content regardless of how much improvements pw has made to it, it still will get ignored and causes high lvl alts to do nothing more than to simply speed lvl through the very content that they should be enjoying whether its their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 10th or 20th alt, it is still fact that you can still lvl by questing now just in under a week to least 70.

The real reason why leveling speed has increased is cause pw listened to idiots such as your self, wannabm, and others like you is the reason why pw cut the quests for the lowbies so much, is all cause the idiots claimed "that they were too boring, too long and not enough exp to lvl." Are you having fun now just simply by playing the high lvls in a ridiculous never ending cycle of doing nothing but dailies, hanging with friends, helping with a low lvl bh once in a blue moon and chatting over world chat like it was your own private backyard? Uh news flash here numbskull, but there's a fence which there are other ppl living on the other side of it so if you like trespassing onto their land (or in this case, their own fun) by claiming or trolling that this game is old, moldy, its dying and theres nothing you can do bout it except, adapt to it, live it up till the very end and just have a happy time playing with whats left. Do you know that even houses too get worn down, rusted, dusty, and etc? or are ya living an illusion that says, "nothing gets worn down" in your own janus fantasy land?

Who was it that said that we wanted to make it like 2008/2009? Um not me, highly doubt it was Miugre, Sylanthunder, Venus, Apostacy, Krisnda, or any others who firmly believe that this game can become almost as if it was brand new game that was just released off the developers shelf. Speaking of shelf life, i think that argument has become old and moldy, just like you and your lame arguments who cant come up with anything presentable with reasonable fact and evidence that,

1. this game is dying and has reached the point of "no return."

2. that the minority are right and the majority are wrong. Ha top that one.

3. that the power creep, frost powerlvling, and the over saturated buffs for lowbies is not intriguing enough for new players or high lvl alts.

Miugre already stated that the low lvls are already super saturated with free things,
Exp, charms, gear, coin, blessings, and buffs, but you continue to disagree with this very concept. So whats it going to take for you to take a deep hard look into this very issue with an open mind? Ah i see, its bout the short-term establishment. Interesting term is what i would say. (not to mention janus just made the biggest mistake in his reply, He simply made a wall of text to illustrate his fantasy world point.) Plus speaking on short-term experiment, pw isnt a short-term experiment, how can ya have an experiment when it hasnt gone sour yet? There are still players who care bout the game and want to see a major change to it which you and your cronies like to see blocked only cause it doesnt fit your playstyle. Who elected you to be the playstyle expert here? Not me, not the ones i mentioned above, and certainly not the forum mods.

Who wants to sit in the low lvls just do that old, boring grinding day to day anyway? I know i didnt like it much back in the old days too, and so does the rest of us here. The only reason why i did grinding back in 08/09 was cause i had to so i could lvl between the lvls of 36-39. Sounds like your brain is so soaked in nostalgia of your own making that your eyes have been poked with a hot metal rod that someone stuck into the fireplace. Plus the playerbase have spoken with the recent poll that was conducted. Which means that all your doing is making arguments and accusations that are just empty words while trying to sway some of the undecided into thinking your way so you can have a fighting chance. Sry to disappoint you numbskull, but your side has completely lost its mind. While your at it, do us all a favor and Butt out of this thread, your arguments are starting to bore us to death, whats next on your agenda, dump an entire lake of water on yourself and then get butthurt by saying that the other party cause you to do it?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How come do you keep repeating yourself by making the word "nostalgia" something hideous or ugly? From every reply you've made on here its all bout "nostalgia", endgame and how everything is bout endgame when all those statements are basically based off your own opinion of the matter regardless of how much experience you've had over the last who cares years of being in the gaming industry. Ever heard of the word "convenience?" The only real reason why the very few newbies that come into the game and the alts of main high lvls that powerlvl is cause of this very issue. If its convenient for someone to not have to go through the same old, rusty, run-down content regardless of how much improvements pw has made to it, it still will get ignored and causes high lvl alts to do nothing more than to simply speed lvl through the very content that they should be enjoying whether its their 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 10th or 20th alt, it is still fact that you can still lvl by questing now just in under a week to least 70.

The real reason why leveling speed has increased is cause pw listened to idiots such as your self, wannabm, and others like you is the reason why pw cut the quests for the lowbies so much, is all cause the idiots claimed "that they were too boring, too long and not enough exp to lvl." Are you having fun now just simply by playing the high lvls in a ridiculous never ending cycle of doing nothing but dailies, hanging with friends, helping with a low lvl bh once in a blue moon and chatting over world chat like it was your own private backyard? Uh news flash here numbskull, but there's a fence which there are other ppl living on the other side of it so if you like trespassing onto their land (or in this case, their own fun) by claiming or trolling that this game is old, moldy, its dying and theres nothing you can do bout it except, adapt to it, live it up till the very end and just have a happy time playing with whats left. Do you know that even houses too get worn down, rusted, dusty, and etc? or are ya living an illusion that says, "nothing gets worn down" in your own janus fantasy land?

Who was it that said that we wanted to make it like 2008/2009? Um not me, highly doubt it was Miugre, Sylanthunder, Venus, Apostacy, Krisnda, or any others who firmly believe that this game can become almost as if it was brand new game that was just released off the developers shelf. Speaking of shelf life, i think that argument has become old and moldy, just like you and your lame arguments who cant come up with anything presentable with reasonable fact and evidence that,

1. this game is dying and has reached the point of "no return."

2. that the minority are right and the majority are wrong. Ha top that one.

3. that the power creep, frost powerlvling, and the over saturated buffs for lowbies is not intriguing enough for new players or high lvl alts.

Miugre already stated that the low lvls are already super saturated with free things,
Exp, charms, gear, coin, blessings, and buffs, but you continue to disagree with this very concept. So whats it going to take for you to take a deep hard look into this very issue with an open mind? Ah i see, its bout the short-term establishment. Interesting term is what i would say. (not to mention janus just made the biggest mistake in his reply, He simply made a wall of text to illustrate his fantasy world point.) Plus speaking on short-term experiment, pw isnt a short-term experiment, how can ya have an experiment when it hasnt gone sour yet? There are still players who care bout the game and want to see a major change to it which you and your cronies like to see blocked only cause it doesnt fit your playstyle. Who elected you to be the playstyle expert here? Not me, not the ones i mentioned above, and certainly not the forum mods.

Who wants to sit in the low lvls just do that old, boring grinding day to day anyway? I know i didnt like it much back in the old days too, and so does the rest of us here. The only reason why i did grinding back in 08/09 was cause i had to so i could lvl between the lvls of 36-39. Sounds like your brain is so soaked in nostalgia of your own making that your eyes have been poked with a hot metal rod that someone stuck into the fireplace. Plus the playerbase have spoken with the recent poll that was conducted. Which means that all your doing is making arguments and accusations that are just empty words while trying to sway some of the undecided into thinking your way so you can have a fighting chance. Sry to disappoint you numbskull, but your side has completely lost its mind. While your at it, do us all a favor and Butt out of this thread, your arguments are starting to bore us to death, whats next on your agenda, dump an entire lake of water on yourself and then get butthurt by saying that the other party cause you to do it?

I appreciate the posts full of vitriol and personal attacks (your mod friends clearly don't have a problem with it, congratulations), speaking of numbskulls, clearly you haven't got it in your head that I'm not "butting out of this thread" merely because you have a deep-seeded issue with people dissenting over your craptastic views and this anti-hyper anti-FF excessive nostalgia (I'm absolutely positive I'm on the right track) cult that's come from people who think they can run a game better than Wanmei yet don't seem to do it.

I haven't at all disagreed with lower levels being given free things, nor have I voiced an issue with it.. because I don't see a problem, nor do I care to argue such a trivial point, so I have no idea why you're deciding to focus on this and QQ your head off, nonetheless it's par for the course with you and wild tangents.

It's no surprise you just blamed me for people FF powerleveling, because they all think and play vicariously through a couple players. It aptly sums up the extremely self-described butthurt attempt to blame people you disagree with for causing all the game's problems when neither myself nor WannaBM decide what goes into the game, nor how the populace prefers to play. I do thoroughly enjoy how out of your way you'll go to hurl personal insults at someone, now make more posts blaming me for the decisions of both developers and players to push people endgame. b:chuckle You've invested so much into the emotional aspect of this QQride that your posts are almost entirely non-sequitur aimed at trying to fluster me into leaving this discussion if you provide enough off-topic vitriol.

Selak - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The forum poll and these butthurt posts about people hyper FF powerleveling seem to forget their position within the game as a minority by the active playerbase.. because if people actually wanted FF hyper powerleveling gone they'd stop doing it. But hyper FF powerleveling thrives because this is the #1 choice of the player base on how to level, hence you trying to change it and pull this hype nonsense like you have the support of the player base.

I don't blame you for the pick me up though, if I was trying this hard to market this being a popular choice I'd ignore what's really going on in game too.

(Sarcasm)
Its the number one choice for the military to shoot its enemies, maybe thats the best way for everyone to deal with things based on your logic, I should shoot anyone I do not like I am sure others would agree with me then.(End of Sarcasm)

Games have rules and just because some idiots decide to break them and then encourage others to do so, still does not make it the right thing to do.

Also haven't you heard about mob psychology and the stupid things people will do if there are no rules.

Imagine this, its a 400 m footrace and some of the runners decide its quicker to get to the end of the race by walking backwards a couple of meters to the finish line instead of following the agreed upon rules for a footrace, and to run in the marked lanes around the oval covering the full 400 meters, they then claim to have won.

Ask yourself this question, should we then make changes the rules to allow this and still call it a 400 meter race even though its now only a 3 meter race.

One other thing when you play MMORPGs there are no winners or losers just players.
Anyone who thinks they are going to win a game with this style of game is plain crazy.

Only games like FPS/MOBAs have would be winners, till someone younger and with better reflexes comes along.

No human rules are perfect and can always stand some scrutiny/review at some point.

I just have to ask are you the sort of person who goes to a music concert then yells at the band because they play a different style of music than you like, rather than go to the correct concert.

Because that is the equivalent to coming into a MMORPG and trying to turn it into a MOBA because its what makes you happy, and therefore will make everyone else happy, and it will be good for us, especially as we all too stupid to see it, but you know best for all of us.

God I wish I was still so sure of myself, dang I must be getting too old now. lol

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Selak - Dreamweaver wrote: »

(Sarcasm)
Its the number one choice for the military to shoot its enemies, maybe thats the best way for everyone to deal with things based on your logic, I should shoot anyone I do not like I am sure others would agree with me then.(End of Sarcasm)

Games have rules and just because some idiots decide to break them and then encourage others to do so, still does not make it the right thing to do.

Also haven't you heard about mob psychology and the stupid things people will do if there are no rules.

Imagine this, its a 400 m footrace and some of the runners decide its quicker to get to the end of the race by walking backwards a couple of meters to the finish line instead of following the agreed upon rules for a footrace, and to run in the marked lanes around the oval covering the full 400 meters, they then claim to have won.

Ask yourself this question, should we then make changes the rules to allow this and still call it a 400 meter race even though its now only a 3 meter race.

One other thing when you play MMORPGs there are no winners or losers just players.
Anyone who thinks they are going to win a game with this style of game is plain crazy.

Only games like FPS/MOBAs have would be winners, till someone younger and with better reflexes comes along.

No human rules are perfect and can always stand some scrutiny/review at some point.

I just have to ask are you the sort of person who goes to a music concert then yells at the band because they play a different style of music than you like, rather than go to the correct concert.

Because that is the equivalent to coming into a MMORPG and trying to turn it into a MOBA because its what makes you happy, and therefore will make everyone else happy, and it will be good for us, especially as we all too stupid to see it, but you know best for all of us.

God I wish I was still so sure of myself, dang I must be getting too old now. lol

I see what you're saying, well, the beginning portion.. but this has nothing to do with "mob rule" (i.e. mob psychology), this type of quick leveling is fully sanctioned by the developers and players were intended to level quickly, hence hypers, hence substantially higher quest xp, hence XP pills you can account stash, hence Oracles, and so on.

The fact that players clearly want this too is only one facet of the argument being made.

The only difference? Players who have a moral issue with leveling quickly can still level slowly doing the old school quests we did 4-5 years ago. Clearly though this is not enough. It's not me suggesting that low/mid level players only have the option to level via hyper FF (hilariously I've somehow been accused of this in this discussion), it's the topic's premise to limit the options of players' in contravention to both players' wishes and the direction the game wants them to go. Something best suited for how one does things individually, not forcing an entire playerbase.