Caster Nirvana Talismans Qq V 2.0

PheosNyx - Sanctuary

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

And that's a biased opinion from a caster... BMs were severely nurfed when they removed CC and many quit playing.

My other main is a bm and I must disagree with this. I only really did CC for the lulz and it never really made that much of a difference. It's only like what, 5 sec on demon GS for the autocrit? We have dragon's bane too and that lasts 30.

Honestly I really think they need to make it so only opener has to sac a tali in caster. Casters were finally having decent income and enjoying their characters more. I can spam runs all day on my bm, why can't I on my arcane toons? Caster is also a lot harder than normal nirv if you have a non-rank squad. Between the lower hp casters usually have and the insufficient dd that tt90 character people still have it's pretty difficult. No boss in normal boss explodes after 10 minutes .. but with aps no boss takes 10 minutes. If we're willing to stand there and pew for that long, you should let us caster as much as we want =_=

MiniST - Sanctuary

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This veno's using theory from
http://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Damage#Amplifying_Damage

Which says that 50% subsea + 100% HF + 30% amp = (1.5) x (2.0) x (1.3) = 3.9

Edit: This is why I say AMP stacking is adding not multiplying.

it is, otherwise debuffs can go below 100%, which it cannot.

Nymphali - Dreamweaver

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

it is, otherwise debuffs can go below 100%, which it cannot.

Maths on:

1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 1 = 2.8

Where 1 for the base damage multiplier, 1 for Heaven Flame, 0.3 for sage amp and 0.5 for sage subsea, we find out that the normal damage will be multiplied by 2.8 which is 280%, or just 200% + 30% + 50%, which is not different.

Now, 280% fits better the game we play than 390% and you (better than me) know that amping never comes to 390%.

Edit: Trying to simplify this.

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

MiniST - Sanctuary

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The damage is damage multiplied by 1, so this 1 is a base for adding amp effects. See:

1 + 0.3 + 0.5 + 1 = 2.8

Where 1 for the base damage multiplier, 1 for Heaven Flame, 0.3 for sage amp and 0.5 for sage subsea, we find out that the normal damage will be multiplied by 2.8 which is 280%, or just 200% + 30% + 50%, which is not different.

I like how you just randomly blurt out stuff. b:cute This is like me saying yes and you saying no, but your no just comes out of your a ss while mine at least has some backing.

btw, what the hell is it not different from? I didn't get your last statement.

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver

Just a reminder of what was my objetive with this post:

1 - Remove the need of a talisman to run caster nirvy

2 - If not possible make the talis last forever like nirvy keys

3 - Remove the need of running BH s to get talis, why for example we need to pay 500k to run Lunar to get a tali?

Eoria - Harshlands

Guess I'm going to be solely healing people in TT instead of doing any caster at all this 2x.

Oh well.

((But seriously, make talismans stackable and untimed.))

Nymphali - Dreamweaver

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just a reminder of what was my objetive with this post:

1 - Remove the need of a talisman to run caster nirvy

2 - If not possible make the talis last forever like nirvy keys

3 - Remove the need of running BH s to get talis, why for example we need to pay 500k to run Lunar to get a tali?

Man I trully agree with the nerf. Caster Nirvys are meant to be tanked by Wizzies and Psychics, and you say thats NOT "Easy mode Nirv?" Try tanking normal nirv with your wizzie then.

Now, I dont agree tooooootally with this nerf, I think it should be reviewed too.

Also: I am a sin which agree that APS should be further nerfed. Max aps should be 2.86 and daggers/fist weapons should have increased damage slightly, cuz APS overpowerness based on making 3 sparks before your spark time ends, this way YOU and ME and ALL the kitties would be doing nirvana in tandem and happily farming.

1 - NO.
2 - Hm, yeah, sounds logical. Though, this one attacks your 1st suggestion.
3 - What do you suggest? Getting 3 talis for free? I suggest having the ability to pay the mysterious old man 1m for a new Talisman whenever you wanted to buy it.

Yes Talismans should be stackable, its stupid the non-stackability of it, i'd do a psychic but now, NVM. Non-stackable talis mean: You're supposed to do ONE Caster nirv a day.

PheosNyx - Sanctuary

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just a reminder of what was my objetive with this post:

1 - Remove the need of a talisman to run caster nirvy

2 - If not possible make the talis last forever like nirvy keys

3 - Remove the need of running BH s to get talis, why for example we need to pay 500k to run Lunar to get a tali?

I agree. Honestly. Why are they giving casters an instance but then limiting us? I'm just glad I have more than one caster toon that's 100. -_- I was finally making good money, too. Back to selling fcc rooms on bm P:

LividLemur - Dreamweaver

Alex_Gantz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Just a reminder of what was my objetive with this post:

1 - Remove the need of a talisman to run caster nirvy

2 - If not possible make the talis last forever like nirvy keys

3 - Remove the need of running BH s to get talis, why for example we need to pay 500k to run Lunar to get a tali?

I agree, Alex. Some sort of compromise can be reached. IMO put the above in suggestion forum as well

perhaps add a 4rth option: extend the time limit on taliman from 24 to 48/72 hours

SaIt - Lost City

Keep in mind that in caster nirvana you don't always have a 100% chance of getting a chest at all from a boss as well, I wonder what aps players would say on forums if they did that to normal nirvana too. Caster has plenty of disadvantages as it already stands aside the fact that we have timed talismans and limited runs per day.

Karen_Divine - Sanctuary

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Man I trully agree with the nerf. Caster Nirvys are meant to be tanked by Wizzies and Psychics, and you say thats NOT "Easy mode Nirv?" Try tanking normal nirv with your wizzie then.

Now, I dont agree tooooootally with this nerf, I think it should be reviewed too.

Also: I am a sin which agree that APS should be further nerfed. Max aps should be 2.86 and daggers/fist weapons should have increased damage slightly, cuz APS overpowerness based on making 3 sparks before your spark time ends, this way YOU and ME and ALL the kitties would be doing nirvana in tandem and happily farming.

1 - NO.
2 - Hm, yeah, sounds logical. Though, this one attacks your 1st suggestion.
3 - What do you suggest? Getting 3 talis for free? I suggest having the ability to pay the mysterious old man 1m for a new Talisman whenever you wanted to buy it.

Yes Talismans should be stackable, its stupid the non-stackability of it, i'd do a psychic but now, NVM. Non-stackable talis mean: You're supposed to do ONE Caster nirv a day.

This is just rather funny. Yes lets further kill the morale of the remaining none r9 caster DDs.

Is caster easy mode vana? not really, due to a few things, 1 melee mobs DO spawn, and I cant count the times someone has died before I could even AD. APS vana is easy mode vana. Caster is hard mode. This is seen by the time it takes to do an aps vana vs a caster, last I checked 'easy mode' is quicker

As for caster not requiring talis I don't agree talis are a good thing, gets me free mirages when I don't feel up for caster. As for them stacking/permanent that would be nice but sadly I doubt it will happen unless china starts QQing.

RIP Caster Vana 2/15/2012 you will be missed, and now without the multiple runs I cant bring barbs, bms, sins, or archers for the fun of it. b:surrender. Well back to working on my aps sin, ps it doesn't take +8 unless you're tanking.

MiniST - Sanctuary

SaIt - Lost City wrote: »

Keep in mind that in caster nirvana you don't always have a 100% chance of getting a chest at all from a boss as well, I wonder what aps players would say on forums if they did that to normal nirvana too. Caster has plenty of disadvantages as it already stands aside the fact that we have timed talismans and limited runs per day.

at 2x it's 99.84% chance of getting atleast 1 chest. If you somehow got no chest from a boss, don't ever expect that kind of bad luck again.

HardToThink - Lost City

MiniST - Sanctuary wrote: »

at 2x it's 99.84% chance of getting atleast 1 chest. If you somehow got no chest from a boss, don't ever expect that kind of bad luck again.

I've done runs where 1 box drops total, from all the bosses.

PheosNyx - Sanctuary

I've never had that bad of luck, but yeah it's completely possible. No other instance is limited in this format (delta was meant to be, but duty badges don't expire and orders are tradeable). Seriously, this was the only source of income for my wiz. I actually got to spend time on my wizard vs. farming on my bm because every other method of farming sucks for casters. Oh well, I guess I'll just save my completed BH2's for talis. It was still incredibly hard to make a squad to begin with, without them taking away our glitch. As a bm, I really don't know what the melee are celebrating for. Maybe they're just happy that we have to stick to our phys toons to make money again. -_-

SaIt - Lost City

I've seen that happen a few times recently, and even seeing it once is a joke all around. Why should we have a percent chance to get a chest if in normal nirvana you always get one from a boss? Even on a caster squad that doesn't glitch it happens as well. Explain that one to me or at least try to since you really can't, you're not a dev.


Like I said, there's plenty of disadvantages but the silly aps players most often don't see that.

HardTimes - Lost City

b:cold im losing more and more hope for ppl. . . . ppl trying to say the nerf on caster was far just because 1 or 2 ppl could solo it on their sever? sorry i know sin's and bm's on lost city who solo normal nv all day everyday. and one of them has a cat shop with any nv 2nd cast gear +10 with shards your heart could ever want.

i have 2 caster classes myself doing caster before the nerf for 3 days was still less then money made by my bm in a few hours.

like everyone says, to make things more even. make it stackable talisman and remove the time on them. there no reason why you have to use mult caster char to still not make even close to what a single sin or bm can make. b:bye

_Rue_ - Sanctuary

This would be such a simple fix for the developers - just get rid of the talis, since both NPCs for the caster and normal vana are there to start with. Then just let everyone burn through their keys or save stacks of them for 2x 99s.

TCHP - Lost City

to my knowledge, caster class can run normal NV all day has many time they want also...

HardToThink - Lost City

TCHP - Lost City wrote: »

to my knowledge, caster class can run normal NV all day has many time they want also...

this cleric is funny

SaIt - Lost City

They can't, magic classes need a talisman to open caster nirvana. Lol.

Hitufast - Archosaur

This is total BS. Casters would run with melee classes if we could actually join them in runs, but no one will take us with them. Now we're limited to 3 runs per day while APS squads run as many times as they have keys for them. And reducing dmg by 5% lmao so it will take an extra few seconds to kill something, big deal.

Jadsia - Lost City

the very least the devs could have done is made them tradeable

Takeva - Heavens Tear

Or take that crappy time limit off. This is a really stupid move. How and what way were casters effecting anything just because we could finally make money.

Only reasons the APSer QQ'd was because casters were keeping our keys to ourselves and weren't buying their cannies or raps.

Accalica - Heavens Tear

Actually...if somehow the opening fails for non intended reasons, we're bound to even less runs;) The devs solved the problem by making a failed opening steal your talisman aswell! Ohoy me casters we're officially nerfed in our "op money making" since we run maybe 3 in 1 hours time while the APSers run with 3man in less than 10. Do the math who's the real market breaker.

Atleast give us a way of retrieving more talis if u don't take away the time limit! It's simply not fair we sometimes even have to pay to get these extra talis (bh lunar mainly). I feel that as a cleric I'm right now in an ok position as i can with much effort cling myself into a random nirvana squad (eventho most of the time there will be alot of sighing and complaining that I simply fill a DD spot or empty one, who needs heals? I've even had 2.86sers tell me Im a waste of space in there healing wise - without them knowing me.)

I srsly feel for those classes that are basically banned from the instance out of pure greed. PWI, if there's anything u might wanna consider it's giving the casters a reason to enjoy their toons more without being called a waste of effin space!

YingFei - Dreamweaver

Well, tbf you can only get 4 keys/day, so TECHNICALLY it's limited to 4 runs/day for aps guys.
Too bad the keys arent timed for them huh.

But the thing is, unlimited caster nirveh would pwn the economy that is already screwed up. And ppl will QQ that it's too easy to gear up (well its already is huh)... However glitched nirvy was one of the few caster ways to get at least decent gear. (nothing compared to you r9 guys huh?)

I actually don't see any way to fix the caster nirvy. The only thing looking reasonable is extending the tali time.

PheosNyx - Sanctuary

takeva - Heavens Tear wrote: »

or Take That Crappy Time Limit Off. This Is A Really Stupid Move. How And What Way Were Casters Effecting Anything Just Because We Could Finally Make Money.

Only Reasons The Apser Qq'd Was Because Casters Were Keeping Our Keys To Ourselves And Weren't Buying Their Cannies Or Raps.

+9001

Accalica - Heavens Tear

The only thing it actually effects is what Takeva mentioned earlier, casters being able to solofarm their cans and raps and no longer rely on others providing them. If that's messing with the economy, so be it. Casters have a hard time enough to make cash as it is, why should they have to buy mats from APS farmers to make their crazy wallets fatter? See the big picture here people.

We have a limit everyday so do APSers, BUT they have the choice of WAITING till 2x with their keys, simply waiting the profit to come to them. We do not have that choice. We can't stack our talis and go multis when we feel we want to do so or that it'll benefit us, which is all in all the biggest wrong in this. Idc about the drops being a little bit better, we have pure **** runs aswell even during 2x, i've never seen 8 raps or even 7 drop and I've ran my fair share for some time. I would straight up not care if they even nerfed the drops, just make us equal on the terms of choice and don't make us have to suckup to APSers to make us feel like someone they're sympathy dragging with them! b:angry

Whoever goes "LoL, open normal nirvana and run it with a caster squad" obviously don't understand the game basics and have lost their reason to even enter the argument.

I'm here to play the game, and I don't know about u guys but I sure as he-- don't like being someone who's looked upon as almost a free rider when I ask to come along in regular nirvana.


Edit: Don't even think I wanna run any random casters anymore now that AD is single person casted. 4th boss deaths, here we come!xD

Takeva - Heavens Tear

Accalica - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The only thing it actually effects is what Takeva mentioned earlier, casters being able to solofarm their cans and raps and no longer rely on others providing them. If that's messing with the economy, so be it. Casters have a hard time enough to make cash as it is, why should they have to buy mats from APS farmers to make their crazy wallets fatter? See the big picture here people.

We have a limit everyday so do APSers, BUT they have the choice of WAITING till 2x with their keys, simply waiting the profit to come to them. We do not have that choice. We can't stack our talis and go multis when we feel we want to do so or that it'll benefit us, which is all in all the biggest wrong in this. Idc about the drops being a little bit better, we have pure **** runs aswell even during 2x, i've never seen 8 raps or even 7 drop and I've ran my fair share for some time. I would straight up not care if they even nerfed the drops, just make us equal on the terms of choice and don't make us have to suckup to APSers to make us feel like someone they're sympathy dragging with them! b:angry

Whoever goes "LoL, open normal nirvana and run it with a caster squad" obviously don't understand the game basics and have lost their reason to even enter the argument.

I'm here to play the game, and I don't know about u guys but I sure as he-- don't like being someone who's looked upon as almost a free rider when I ask to come along in regular nirvana.

This.

Either remove the time or give melee a type of talisman the prevents them from farming the hell out of Nirvana and you know, breaking the economy like they have been doing for a while now.

LOL yea put that blame on casters for being able to profit. Can't pretend to be blind for long people.

Pazi_Ujedam - Raging Tide

ppl on servers only care about 5 aps squads, sage non aps ppl are unwanted in nirvana, same goes for casters, nobody wants them in normal nirvana. if caster nirvana is now limited, so should normal nirvana be limited. be fair at least.