Caster Nirvana Talismans Qq V 2.0

Smokesalot - Heavens Tear

Eniyo - Raging Tide wrote: »

"Casters told us..."

Not all, that is not true. I didn't even know about it and I bet I'm not the only one.
Furthermore the QQ is not about the glitch but the unfairness of being limited. Please hit 100 and run the instance - then you can join the talk.

thank you

BlackMorder - Raging Tide

Any other troller with reasons??? wise reasons, not crapy ones.
b:laugh

FatherTed - Dreamweaver

One of my feet smells kind of funny.

The other one smells like bacon.

Bacon is never funny.

BlackMorder - Raging Tide

Go wash ur feet b:laugh
this was one of those threads b:shutup

Malei - Sanctuary

Smokesalot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

am i not allowed to do that gms?
u know where i keep my pakage kiss it

This guy. b:laugh

BlackMorder - Raging Tide

b:laugh b:laugh b:laugh was fun :P

ktnz

The fact is that the game is simply unbalanced and unfair.

I agree so long as it remains so it will become a server of nothing but sins. Casters should be able to run Nirvana just as APS players do. Sure Casters could do normal Nirvana runs..but Caster Nirvana was made for a reason thus sending Casters to normal Nirvana defeats that purpose.

Why is it APS can simply take a quest at the Old Man and run Nirvana 3x with only but a key while a Caster can only 1x being only 1 Tailsman. While a Caster gets the same amount of keys yes but be honest how many Casters are using those other 2 keys (without alts)?

Most commonly it simply doesn't happen, mage classes wont see a light of normal Nirvana. The Nirvana Tailsman should be given to a Caster just the same as keys and also be timeless and stackable to save and farm for 2x just as APS players do. This would only be right and fair.

And as for the greedy persons QQing about prices if Nirvana did become actually fair for Casters, shame on you.

GM's please listen and fix this and bring balance back to the game.

P.S. ily Black Morder ;D

BlackMorder - Raging Tide

Thanks friend.
But guys see we made 2 topic with over 20,000 view but NO PM FROM ANY GM b:shutup
This is ....

BlackMorder - Raging Tide

Any GM, crossing nearby this topic? b:surrender

Escorian - Dreamweaver

Quit crying about a glitch getting fixed i mean seriously IT WAS A BUG which means it was not intended and yeah blah blah blah casters can't farm as fast blah blah blah we only get 3 nirvana talismans a day blah blah blah. yeah we know you abused a glitch and you are upset it was FIXED get over it. I am sick and tired of seeing people cry about this yeah you only get 3 nirvana talismans a day but guess what you can also do normal nirvana too you guys just cry because normal nirvana takes too long if you don't use aps which means you guys are just as greedy as the aps farmers. b:bye

Nymphali - Dreamweaver

Casters born to depend on melees, every game's like that.

Now, lets remove talisman, so casters will have to do regular Nirv like everyone else then.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Casters born to depend on melees, every game's like that.

Now, lets remove talisman, so casters will have to do regular Nirv like everyone else then.

But then what happens to all those beautiful free mirages I can get from BH2?

BlackMorder - Raging Tide

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Casters born to depend on melees, every game's like that.

Now, lets remove talisman, so casters will have to do regular Nirv like everyone else then.

Go lvl up first kiddo, then open ur mouth.
b:laugh

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Casters born to depend on melees, every game's like that.

Now, lets remove talisman, so casters will have to do regular Nirv like everyone else then.

BH/FB19-100 squad LF cleric, or mystic.

BH Delta, wave 2/3/4+/Full LF cleric, or mystic. LF AOE DD's.

Delta squad LF wizard or psychic.

My true point is that everyone is meant to depend upon one another. That was the beauty in pwi pre-tideborn expansion. We still are meant to depend upon one another. However, the balance has been wrecked. (Anytime that an on level boss can be sliced up faster than swiss cheese, something is wrong.)

Casters and melees are meant to depend upon each other. Aggro management is supposed to be an essential technique.

Tanks and healers were depended upon by all for obvious reasons. If either of them fell in battle, the squad would be that much closer to wiping. The tank would normally be a melee class, and typically a barb, and the healer would be a caster class.

Up until some of the higher leveled instances, people didn't dare to run without either.


Regarding the nirvanas, BOTH need to be revamped and made equal for all. Regular is glitched too. We give our keys, and then drop squad. You should fail just like in delta. Imagine the QQ then.

Truth is, nirvana is unfair. It needs a major overhaul to be fair. Both need to be erased, and made into something that both casters, aps, and non aps characters can get into fairly. I commented more on this in a previous post, so I'll just leave it at that.

Escorian - Dreamweaver

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Regular is glitched too. We give our keys, and then drop squad. You should fail just like in delta. Imagine the QQ then.

I wish they would do this.

Prophete - Dreamweaver

That would be really fun haha

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

A combined Nirvana where both class-types are needed would be good...still, PvE in general needs to be revamped (for the same reasons Serenity mentioned)

TheDendra - Harshlands

Escorian - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you guys just cry because normal nirvana takes too long if you don't use aps which means you guys are just as greedy as the aps farmers. b:bye

You aren't that smart ain't ya? Because this was already explained in detail earlier. It has nothing to do with greed.

Problem is that it takes us 45mins to do what aps squad does in 5mins and the prices for that work are dictated by the aps classes. Nobody is stupid enough to waste time on such a run that brings virtually no profit.

Even if you are stupid enough to try doing normal nirvanas with casters, you will spend most of your time trying to find more stupid people to join your run. So no, normal nirvana is not an option for us, not even remotely. If you think it's us being lazy or greedy, why don't you play a caster for a few months and let me know how many normal nirvanas you managed to do+how much money you made - and then you'll realize you made less money in those x months than an aps class makes in less than an hour.


Only time a caster can do normal nirvana is if he has aps friends who are bored and bring him along. Other option is a bored old barbarian player who has all the time in this world to waste accompanied with his family members who don't mind wasting 1hour on a nirvana. Those are pretty much the only rare cases in which you'll actually do a normal nirvana as caster - and yes, you're better of grinding DQ or making money selling fc heads because both of those solutions will bring you more profit per hour, go figure (and obviously profit in both cases is pathetic, but hey that's the life of a caster in pwi!)

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver wrote: »

BH/FB19-100 squad LF cleric, or mystic.

BH Delta, wave 2/3/4+/Full LF cleric, or mystic. LF AOE DD's.

Delta squad LF wizard or psychic.

My true point is that everyone is meant to depend upon one another. That was the beauty in pwi pre-tideborn expansion. We still are meant to depend upon one another. However, the balance has been wrecked. (Anytime that an on level boss can be sliced up faster than swiss cheese, something is wrong.)

Casters and melees are meant to depend upon each other. Aggro management is supposed to be an essential technique.

Tanks and healers were depended upon by all for obvious reasons. If either of them fell in battle, the squad would be that much closer to wiping. The tank would normally be a melee class, and typically a barb, and the healer would be a caster class.

Up until some of the higher leveled instances, people didn't dare to run without either.


Regarding the nirvanas, BOTH need to be revamped and made equal for all. Regular is glitched too. We give our keys, and then drop squad. You should fail just like in delta. Imagine the QQ then.

Truth is, nirvana is unfair. It needs a major overhaul to be fair. Both need to be erased, and made into something that both casters, aps, and non aps characters can get into fairly. I commented more on this in a previous post, so I'll just leave it at that.

Exactly. And some1 already posted solution.
Just add few bosses physical immune to normal nirvana. It's very easy and effective solution.

_Petal_ - Harshlands

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Now, lets remove talisman, so casters will have to do regular Nirv like everyone else then.

Good idea!
.....except, you can't get squads, because twitchy people don't need casters. Why would they need actual DD's, when it takes *so* much talent to auto-attack the bosses with bp?


And if you're a free caster?

Most caster squads call for +5 weapons or higher, and usually if you're TT99, then you're not even glanced at. I mean, who would want to give a spot to someone who worked for their sh*t, when you have some numbnuts who has R8 weapons?

So a Wizard's got +3 on his TT99 weapon--You think he's getting any "decent" caster squads? With orbs at the price they are, the chances of you seeing a "decent" Nirvana are slim to nothing.


Vicious Cycle of PWE: You have no gear because you have no money, you have no money because you have no gear.

That's PWE's thing. It's difficult most times for casters to get Nirvana now, so the easiest route? Buy Rank. That's why they're continuing to do all of this. They're going to continue doing this while there's still a game left to suck dry.

fuzzywuzz

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Problem is that it takes us 45mins to do what aps squad does in 5mins

Earlier in this thread people were complaining a caster nirvana run without a highly refined squad took 20 minutes. Now TheDendra complains it takes 45? Fuzzy sees more than just a slight exaggeration there. Also, alot of the casters posting here seem to be implying that every single "regular" Nirvana run takes no more than 5 minutes. Everyone saying this seems to be under the impression that every single non-caster run is done by nothing but 5aps +10 players. This also is a huge exaggeration.

It has been shown that highly refined end game casters can run their Nirvana's in only a few more minutes than the highly refined end game aps users. Seems about right to Fuzzy. Those complaining it takes them 20 minutes when they are "forced" to run with people with low refines... well, guess what, the same is true on the other side of the equation as well. +4/5 3.33 aps squads with a barb or seeker or veno thrown in the mix sure arn't burning through Nirvana in 5 minutes. It sounds to the panda like alot of the people posting here think they should be entitled to farm as fast as players who have spent alot of time/effort/coin/dorbs etc on their gear. Sorry to burst your bubble, but simply having a sense of entitlement doesn't mean in reality it is actually unfair.

Just as every caster squad might not be +10 r8/r9 7-10 minute runs, not every other Nirvana squad is +10 5aps 5-10 minute runs.

Also, the idea of everyone other than casters somehow being able to farm "endless amounts" of Nirvana runs is another exaggeration. Fuzzy sees, at least on his server, far far far more WC's for caster runs on a daily basis. Many caster class folk are using their 3 talismans a day, running 3 times through a Nirvana instance with an increased drop rate over the normal version. Almost every single other person the panda knows spend months hoarding their keys waiting for a 2x event. So, while alot of casters are stockpiling their uncanny and rapture crystals everyday, many aps users don't farm any. They choose to make no profit on a daily basis from the instance waiting for the week or two where they then can run them when it is most benificial. People in this thread are making it sound like aps users get 1000 keys a day, run nirvana endlessly and make zillions of coin profit.

Yes, it might be annoying for some casters they can no longer glitch an instance, but if you want your argument to be taken seriously, stop throwing out such huge exaggerations and make a legit argument. With all the nonsense alot of people are spouting in here, it just falls on deaf ears.

b:bye

Mystic_Man - Harshlands

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

*snip*

I feel inclined to ask if you've ever set foot in Nirvana, let alone had to run with high or low refined squads....although I feel the question is rhetorical.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

FuzzyWuzz wrote: »

Earlier in this thread people were complaining a caster nirvana run without a highly refined squad took 20 minutes. Now TheDendra complains it takes 45? Fuzzy sees more than just a slight exaggeration there. Also, alot of the casters posting here seem to be implying that every single "regular" Nirvana run takes no more than 5 minutes. Everyone saying this seems to be under the impression that every single non-caster run is done by nothing but 5aps +10 players. This also is a huge exaggeration.

It has been shown that highly refined end game casters can run their Nirvana's in only a few more minutes than the highly refined end game aps users. Seems about right to Fuzzy. Those complaining it takes them 20 minutes when they are "forced" to run with people with low refines... well, guess what, the same is true on the other side of the equation as well. +4/5 3.33 aps squads with a barb or seeker or veno thrown in the mix sure arn't burning through Nirvana in 5 minutes. It sounds to the panda like alot of the people posting here think they should be entitled to farm as fast as players who have spent alot of time/effort/coin/dorbs etc on their gear. Sorry to burst your bubble, but simply having a sense of entitlement doesn't mean in reality it is actually unfair.

Just as every caster squad might not be +10 r8/r9 7-10 minute runs, not every other Nirvana squad is +10 5aps 5-10 minute runs.

Also, the idea of everyone other than casters somehow being able to farm "endless amounts" of Nirvana runs is another exaggeration. Fuzzy sees, at least on his server, far far far more WC's for caster runs on a daily basis. Many caster class folk are using their 3 talismans a day, running 3 times through a Nirvana instance with an increased drop rate over the normal version. Almost every single other person the panda knows spend months hoarding their keys waiting for a 2x event. So, while alot of casters are stockpiling their uncanny and rapture crystals everyday, many aps users don't farm any. They choose to make no profit on a daily basis from the instance waiting for the week or two where they then can run them when it is most benificial. People in this thread are making it sound like aps users get 1000 keys a day, run nirvana endlessly and make zillions of coin profit.

Yes, it might be annoying for some casters they can no longer glitch an instance, but if you want your argument to be taken seriously, stop throwing out such huge exaggerations and make a legit argument. With all the nonsense alot of people are spouting in here, it just falls on deaf ears.

b:bye

You want valid arguments. Here they are.
It's impossible to find squad of 6 people with R8 +10 for 15 minute run. Normal run is about 20-25 minute if you lucky and have at least 2, R8+10 people.
About drops. Caster nirvana has 5 bosses, normal has 6 bosses. So probability to get more from normal nirvana is higher. Many times from caster at normal drop we didn't get even 6 cannies.
So facts is, normal average runs are +20 minutes. Normal average APS run is 10 minute.

Namari - Dreamweaver

Upon my return to playing, I decided to do a caster nirvana run. I am one of those who will take the newbies and low refined gear folks. Because I remember back when there wasn't a caster nirvana, I had to rely on my fiance to go on normal nirvanas with, and since he doesn't like doing them even after hitting 5.0, I'm out on a limb unless I steal his char (there's a double edged sword here--he's not highly refined enough for most squads either).

So here I am, doing this run...on 2 hours of sleep nonetheless, and there's a mystic with TT70 gear who has never done it before, a cleric who apparently didn't know where the **** his IH/BB button is (luckily I took a second cleric with very good gear), and a wizard who ******* and moaned about his exp (he towned every time he died, and at 100 the exp curve is still tolerable enough to hit 101 with fc's -.-;), and wasn't even high refine or anything.

After failing on the last boss and making a whopping 100k in that run, despite getting charm ***** out the *** (lost half a plat charm in there)...

Now I see why casters have become elitist themselves. My +8 rank 8 weapon may never be enough for most squads, but if I ever do caster again, I'd prefer to run with those who are like refines, because otherwise I'll be making close to zero money in game, and one of the conditions of me coming back is to try and put no more money into this game.

Oh, and that run also gave me a sudden urge to play my sin that was shelved since she hit level 85. I may not be 5.0 very quickly, but since a sin with 3.33 and like refines can outdamage a 5.0 BM (I think I might be exaggerating, so feel free to correct me), I think my odds are better against my psychic. It's too bad that I had to revive her just so I can do a farming instance with ease.

BTW, that run took roughly an hour and a half with no success. So no, a squad full of low-refined casters will not complete within 15 minutes, if they even complete at all.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Namari - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Upon my return to playing, I decided to do a caster nirvana run. I am one of those who will take the newbies and low refined gear folks. Because I remember back when there wasn't a caster nirvana, I had to rely on my fiance to go on normal nirvanas with, and since he doesn't like doing them even after hitting 5.0, I'm out on a limb unless I steal his char (there's a double edged sword here--he's not highly refined enough for most squads either).

So here I am, doing this run...on 2 hours of sleep nonetheless, and there's a mystic with TT70 gear who has never done it before, a cleric who apparently didn't know where the **** his IH/BB button is (luckily I took a second cleric with very good gear), and a wizard who ******* and moaned about his exp (he towned every time he died, and at 100 the exp curve is still tolerable enough to hit 101 with fc's -.-;), and wasn't even high refine or anything.

After failing on the last boss and making a whopping 100k in that run, despite getting charm ***** out the *** (lost half a plat charm in there)...

Now I see why casters have become elitist themselves. My +8 rank 8 weapon may never be enough for most squads, but if I ever do caster again, I'd prefer to run with those who are like refines, because otherwise I'll be making close to zero money in game, and one of the conditions of me coming back is to try and put no more money into this game.

Oh, and that run also gave me a sudden urge to play my sin that was shelved since she hit level 85. I may not be 5.0 very quickly, but since a sin with 3.33 and like refines can outdamage a 5.0 BM (I think I might be exaggerating, so feel free to correct me), I think my odds are better against my psychic. It's too bad that I had to revive her just so I can do a farming instance with ease.

BTW, that run took roughly an hour and a half with no success. So no, a squad full of low-refined casters will not complete within 15 minutes, if they even complete at all.

Nice said. And I feel really sorry for you. Caster can be pain and you just prove it.
BTW. Just finished one run. We got 5 canies, but fortunately we got 1 rapture.

PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver

so far my experiences were really nice
ofc there were a couple of runs with people with not so decent gear but there were also runs with r9+12s so on average it's ok. tbh, a challenging run once in a while can be fun.

ps: i love using my sage BoL ^^

ps2: i think that the main problem with ivy's run was skill and not gear; fortunately i havent run with a cleric that didnt know where the IH/BB button is XD

ps3: vampire boss can be a real pain, especially if people aoe like crazy, and you cant even see what's going on (lag doesnt help either). pretty chaotic

Michael_Dark - Lost City

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

Problem is that it takes us 45mins to do what aps squad does in 5mins and the prices for that work are dictated by the aps classes. Nobody is stupid enough to waste time on such a run that brings virtually no profit.

/facepalm

Not this idiocy again.

Comparing your horribly geared nubo squads to a 5 minute APS run is pure stupidity. What are you running it with a +2 90 weapon?

Caster Nirvana 7.5 minutes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP7RCHq5ah4

Gear up and stop whining.

Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You want valid arguments. Here they are.
It's impossible to find squad of 6 people with R8 +10 for 15 minute run. Normal run is about 20-25 minute if you lucky and have at least 2, R8+10 people.
About drops. Caster nirvana has 5 bosses, normal has 6 bosses. So probability to get more from normal nirvana is higher. Many times from caster at normal drop we didn't get even 6 cannies.
So facts is, normal average runs are +20 minutes. Normal average APS run is 10 minute.

So who's fault is it casters don't refine gear and APSers do?

By the way MOST APS squads take 15-20min to complete, unless you're LUCKY enough to find +11/12 refined sins/BM.

So your time difference is that large.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear

Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So who's fault is it casters don't refine gear and APSers do?

By the way MOST APS squads take 15-20min to complete, unless you're LUCKY enough to find +11/12 refined sins/BM.

So your time difference is that large.

It's not about refining it's about APS. Unrefined APS do much more damage, than unrefined caster.
And refined APS do 10x more damage than refined caster.

Mr_Punkster - Dreamweaver

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's not about refining it's about APS. Unrefined APS do much more damage, than unrefined caster.
And refined APS do 10x more damage than refined caster.

This is true...but aren't there less bosses to kill in a caster Nirvy?