Guild Base wars never coming?

chaoticshelly

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Drop/farm ~300m coins total for a fully upgraded faction base that serves no purpose. How are you feeling after this?

It was simply postponed. Instead, it gave factions time to fully upgrade their bases and prepare for said feature. No one ever said it won't be released, and it indeed will be - it was simply postponed. While this is annoying, it's also a natural thing in gaming industry.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

It was simply postponed. Instead, it gave factions time to fully upgrade their bases and prepare for said feature. No one ever said it won't be released, and it indeed will be - it was simply postponed. While this is annoying, it's also a natural thing in gaming industry.

It's actually been canceled. There is a hint of a new feature to replace it but after a while you learn to stop holding your breath.

frankieraye wrote: »

According to China, the 40v40 faction base battle has been cancelled, and they have instead been working on a new "faction base instance" feature.

Aikidou - Lost City

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Drop/farm ~300m coins total for a fully upgraded faction base that serves no purpose. How are you feeling after this?

dropped MOST of the coin and a quarter of the emblems, and half the Ultimate's and most of the upgrades to the point it's at now kthx. and me, i don't really care. i've never been a TW kinda person so really i did it cause i knew no one in the faction i was in had the money to do it, so me and another friend pretty much split the diff. so tbh, i really have very few feelings about it. o_o

Retsuko - Heavens Tear

When you're in the faction base, you see these red messages appear which are in general kinda annoying since it's mostly useless information. One message that pops up says something along the lines of "Base wars is coming!". You guys at pwi might want to change that now b:chuckle

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

It was simply postponed. Instead, it gave factions time to fully upgrade their bases and prepare for said feature. No one ever said it won't be released, and it indeed will be - it was simply postponed. While this is annoying, it's also a natural thing in gaming industry.

That was actually the first excuse by PWE. Originally, base wars (as stated in this thread + my OP's links I gave) we're supposed to be implemented in the client along with the bases. In other words, base wars we're 100% part of the bases. When player began wondering where base wars we're and how they could be activated, Frankie stated that they actually hadn't been implemented in the client at the time, and gave an excuse. In my OP, I gave links to my original thread on this, and another players thread. In my original thread months ago, I gave quotes (in code), of the exact words used by Perfect World Entertainment on the news feeds for the expansion. Clearly, this was a feature that was supposed to be implemented with bases, and it came to a shock for PWE when they weren't. However, players at this time had already purchased the bases under the assumption that these wars we're in existence. But, alas... They we're a mere spec of dust.

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

/facepalm

Yeah, you can link dictionary.com as much as you want but you really need to learn what the word scam means.


The real truth?

Some guy in marketing said "hey these features would be neat", some guy in upper management said "cool, get it done". The devs who play... oh wait, there aren't any. The high school swim team dropout programmers they hire for pennies a day say "oh, we can do that". And after a few months of trying realize they can't do what the marketing team wanted so they give up on it.

I'm no fan of PWE or the horrible mismanagement of our version of the game, but to call it a scam? You should realize what you're doing. Look up the word fallacy.

b:bye

Your entitled to your opinion, as am I. I believe it is a scam/lie. You don't have to believe me, and no -- this is not a fallacy. b:bye

Aikidou - Lost City wrote: »

dropped MOST of the coin and a quarter of the emblems, and half the Ultimate's and most of the upgrades to the point it's at now kthx. and me, i don't really care. i've never been a TW kinda person so really i did it cause i knew no one in the faction i was in had the money to do it, so me and another friend pretty much split the diff. so tbh, i really have very few feelings about it. o_o

Are you speaking on behalf of the community or yourself? I highly doubt that's what the community thinks. I'm in a TW faction w/ a faction base, and we've created a thread linking to this one, on our forums. I'll let ya know already, the words about PWE, PW-CN, etc -- they aren't nice. So clearly, if I have 10+ people in a day stating that this is wrong, and you + a person or two stating this is totally okay... Majority wins?

Money doesn't mean anything to you, I assume. Refer to the post Frankie quoted by myself. You fall under the re.tarded and/or extremely rich. Gratz!

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's actually been canceled. There is a hint of a new feature to replace it but after a while you learn to stop holding your breath.

But this is actually a good thing because Faction Bases were actually very horribly designed and implemented with no consistency or continuity to the game (as if the last point were anything new).

KushClouds - Lothranis

Yea ive been waiting for Base Wars since the Expansion was dropped.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

But this is actually a good thing because Faction Bases were actually very horribly designed and implemented with no consistency or continuity to the game (as if the last point were anything new).

I kind of agree with this. Faction base battles as they were described didn't seem very well thought out.

The point was to steal opponent's building materials but you are never in short supply of materials as you upgrade the base. You are limited by the construction points which you can only get from those mob kill quests.

Also how are you supposed to recover when a guild destroys a building in a battle that literally took months to build?

Aikidou - Lost City

[/QUOTE]Are you speaking on behalf of the community or yourself? I highly doubt that's what the community thinks. I'm in a TW faction w/ a faction base, and we've created a thread linking to this one, on our forums. I'll let ya know already, the words about PWE, PW-CN, etc -- they aren't nice. So clearly, if I have 10+ people in a day stating that this is wrong, and you + a person or two stating this is totally okay... Majority wins?

Money doesn't mean anything to you, I assume. Refer to the post Frankie quoted by myself. You fall under the re.tarded and/or extremely rich. Gratz! [/QUOTE]

me personally? Though i'm sure quite a few people on LC would agree, since unlike HT which isn't predominantly PVP and can use a good war, LC is a PVP server that people tend to not even do TW since they PVP anyways, and since they will only have land for a week or 3 when it gets dominated by the 3 top factions since the power-structure is pretty much in those 3 guilds. so tbh, it'll be more of the same after a few weeks of it being available.

oh, and yes i do CS a bit i guess that makes me evil? but theres a difference between using money for your own goals and using it to help friends and guildies, which tbh is mostly what i do with any of the money i make, which is predominately Skill-book selling for coin. =P if that makes me ****, then Color me Rain man.

HardToThink - Lost City

Aikidou - Lost City wrote: »

what i do with any of the money i make, which is predominately Skill-book selling for coin. =P if that makes me ****, then Color me Rain man.

bidsss =x my luck is to horrible to try again x/x 5 fow's, 2 mountain seizes, 3 glacial snares.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Aikidou - Lost City wrote: »

me personally? Though i'm sure quite a few people on LC would agree, since unlike HT which isn't predominantly PVP and can use a good war, LC is a PVP server that people tend to not even do TW since they PVP anyways, and since they will only have land for a week or 3 when it gets dominated by the 3 top factions since the power-structure is pretty much in those 3 guilds. so tbh, it'll be more of the same after a few weeks of it being available.

oh, and yes i do CS a bit i guess that makes me evil? but theres a difference between using money for your own goals and using it to help friends and guildies, which tbh is mostly what i do with any of the money i make, which is predominately Skill-book selling for coin. =P if that makes me ****, then Color me Rain man.

Guess that settles it then.

Aikidou - Lost City

guess so. you complain about in-game coin going to waste i let it go to waste on mates. it feels damn good to be Rain man.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Aikidou - Lost City wrote: »

guess so. you complain about in-game coin going to waste i let it go to waste on mates. it feels damn good to be Rain man.

I stand up for the community, yes.

Aikidou - Lost City

You do realize the community doesn't all have 1 conformist idea, right? so your standing up for the part of the community that agrees with you, not the WHOLE community, just like i am. o.o miiiight wanna rephrase that "the community" bit. o_o also isn't the community at their computers? so wouldn't it be sitting down for the community... o_o

ZodiarkE - Dreamweaver

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Before I post, I want to redirect peeps to these threads:

My thread: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1057871
Another thread by a player: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1132501

I decided to create a new thread to stop a potential necro from arising. Though, it would be a valid necro, since Frankie has told us he plans to find out/get updated info on this subject, and still hasn't.

I, as well as many players would like to know... What's the point of the Guild Bases (beside's buffs/apoth), if we won't ever have base wars? This was the top point besides the two new races in the EG expansion. How do the developers fail this bad? It's been like, what? 6+ months now, since the expansion? Only two threads about this subject, and both are open-ended with "clarification" coming in the future.

Frankie, when are we getting what was supposed to be here half a year ago?

Note: Bumping everyday until a response via CM/GM/Mod is given on behalf of this subject. I'll send Frankie a PM as well. Only way to get a response here is to harass peeps, so I'll gladly do that.

Actually I see no point on having guild bases in the first place at all, I mean sure guild base fights or wars, or guild bases just to have as a HQ its all good, like an empire.

But still never-the-less it is pretty useless and a waste of coins, time and money.

It should be removed completely, and put something else better that everyone can use instead of wasting time.

Aikidou - Lost City

(btw parts of the community that agrees with you says your being an alarmist with this -page 1-)

chaoticshelly

@Tremblewith/ Aikidou: Also the forums =/= the community. A very small percentage of the player base frequents the forums and those who do, do not necessarily represent those that don't frequent it at all.

That said, Tremblwith, I believe a lot of people stand up for the community here, not just you. I for one make sure Frankie is noted for every concern the community brings up, and Frankie makes sure to reply with as best information that he possibly can.

The big difference is that a while for the most part (if not all the time) the concerns and demands are legitimate, PWE is nothing but a branch of PW Beijing, and like any other F2P distributing company out there, it's the owning company that sets the tone and pace of everything. The case isn't that PWE is preventing the player base from a feature that is released in other versions, it just doesn't have anything more to say since it hasn't been released at all.

The best answer is "It's coming sooner than X months" since the company in China has no further information to release on the subject. I'd much rather a feature that works than another feature in this game that doesn't work properly at all. In all honest, we have enough of those.

Aikidou - Lost City

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

@Tremblewith/ Aikidou: Also the forums =/= the community. A very small percentage of the player base frequents the forums and those who do, do not necessarily represent those that don't frequent it at all.

That said, Tremblwith, I believe a lot of people stand up for the community here, not just you. I for one make sure Frankie is noted for every concern the community brings up, and Frankie makes sure to reply with as best information that he possibly can.

The big difference is that a while for the most part (if not all the time) the concerns and demands are legitimate, PWE is nothing but a branch of PW Beijing, and like any other F2P distributing company out there, it's the owning company that sets the tone and pace of everything. The case isn't that PWE is preventing the player base from a feature that is released in other versions, it just doesn't have anything more to say since it hasn't been released at all.

The best answer is "It's coming sooner than X months" since the company in China has no further information to release on the subject. I'd much rather prefer a feature that works than another feature in this game that doesn't work properly at all. In all honest, we have enough of those.

FINALLY. xD

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Aikidou - Lost City wrote: »

You do realize the community doesn't all have 1 conformist idea, right? so your standing up for the part of the community that agrees with you, not the WHOLE community, just like i am. o.o miiiight wanna rephrase that "the community" bit. o_o also isn't the community at their computers? so wouldn't it be sitting down for the community... o_o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_community

Communities exist online and off. A community is a group of people that come together for various reasons, to co-exist. So, no. I will not re-phrase that. Also, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I speak for the majority of the community.

ZodiarkE - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually I see no point on having guild bases in the first place at all, I mean sure guild base fights or wars, or guild bases just to have as a HQ its all good, like an empire.

But still never-the-less it is pretty useless and a waste of coins, time and money.

It should be removed completely, and put something else better that everyone can use instead of wasting time.

Agreed, it serves no purpose now besides base buffs/apoth/arrows.

Aikidou - Lost City wrote: »

(btw parts of the community that agrees with you says your being an alarmist with this -page 1-)

Yep, that was a joke. If you analyze my past threads, you'll notice a trend of topic titles that are used to grab attention. You see this in the newspapers, on the news, in magazines, on billboards, on advertisements, on bottles of water, etc. Good deduction skills, by not reading the posts after it to know what the post was about!

Aikidou - Lost City

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_community

Communities exist online and off. A community is a group of people that come together for various reasons, to co-exist. So, no. I will not re-phrase that. Also, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I speak for the majority of the community.

But seeing as this community your talking about on PW is like, 10-20%(could be off) of the actual people playing thats like saying your the majority of the minority. o_o and i don't think they'd take a Census over it. o_o and that's also assuming. o_o


Agreed, it serves no purpose now besides base buffs/apoth/arrows.




Yep, that was a joke. If you analyze my past threads, you'll notice a trend of topic titles that are used to grab attention. You see this in the newspapers, on the news, in magazines, on billboards, on advertisements, on bottles of water, etc. Good deduction skills, by not reading the posts after it to know what the post was about!

and it doesn't mean its right. xD

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

@Tremblewith/ Aikidou: Also the forums =/= the community. A very small percentage of the player base frequents the forums and those who do, do not necessarily represent those that don't frequent it at all.

That said, Tremblewith, I believe a lot of people stand up for the community here, not just you. I for one make sure Frankie is noted for every concern the community brings up, and Frankie makes sure to reply with as best information that he possibly can.

The big difference is that a while for the most part (if not all the time) the concerns and demands are legitimate, PWE is nothing but a branch of PW Beijing, and like any other F2P distributing company out there, it's the owning company that sets the tone and pace of everything. The case isn't that PWE is preventing the player base from a feature that is released in other versions, it just doesn't have anything more to say since it hasn't been released at all.

The best answer is "It's coming sooner than X months" since the company in China has no further information to release on the subject. I'd much rather a feature that works than another feature in this game that doesn't work properly at all. In all honest, we have enough of those.

So, until this new feature "might" come, players who purchased and upgraded the faction base must stick with it? I understand that a new feature "might" come in the future. However, the intended feature that was supposed to have been implemented day one of the Earthguard expansion, wasn't and hasn't, and never will be. This being said, why would the players who spent 200m+ coins on this faction base, assuming the base wars we're there -- not want a refund of their coin/materials used to create and upgrade the base?

What I've been told so far *unoffically -- still waiting on the ticket response*, is players bought the faction base under the assumption base wars we're inside it, but they can't get a refund since there is a feature that "might" come in the future. Like that will solve everything...

If someone tells me I have scotch tape in my backpack, and I open it up to find no tape... Is it okay? Maybe if I have tape somewhere else, eh? But I need tape now! Where's the tape? Pretty much, the same example -- Players opened up the faction base thinking it had something that it doesn't. Am I seriously the only one playing Perfect World International, that can't see the fail logic and immoral companies behind this?

Aikidou - Lost City wrote: »

and it doesn't mean its right. xD

You really like to sidetrack threads about a word, huh? Have it your way!

A community still can apply to a small group of people, within' a larger mass. It's called a sub-community, or a cub-culture. The player base that views the forums is significantly less than the player base that plays the game (naturally). However, the forums players that post can be considered a sub-community. While in the larger sense, they are in the community of PWI players (unless they themselves don't play PWI), and even further out they are in a community of gamers.

What defines a community? It's people (or plants, or animals, etc) coming together in unity to co-exist among one another in a specific habitat.

chaoticshelly

Plenty of people got their guild bases even after the announcement was made that the guild base wars were (not we're = we are) not implanted in the game and that it's unknown when they will be, when they actually will. Since we now know the feature will be introduced, your argument is invalid. Should they be compensated for the long wait? Honestly, I don't think so (and I say that as a former member of a guild who owns a base, and that I have contributed plenty towards that goal).

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

Plenty of people got their guild bases even after the announcement was made that the guild base wars were (not we're = we are) not implanted in the game and that it's unknown when they will be, when they actually will. Since we now know the feature will be introduced, your argument is invalid. Should they be compensated for the long wait? Honestly, I don't think so (and I say that as a former member of a guild who owns a base, and that I have contributed plenty towards that goal).

I'm not asking for compensation for players that waited. I'm asking would they be refunded if they purchased the guild base under the thought that base wars were inside it? If not, I consider that wrong/immoral/a scam/a lie. It clearly stated in the news feed that base wars were part of the base, and coming in the expansion.

I'm also not asking about players who got the base after the announcement was made that guild base wars were not implemented in the client. But, you have to remember -- Frankie stated that they were coming in the future. Then he stated that the status was unknown. Finally, he stated that they were canceled. How would the players know that "status unknown", and before that "they are coming soon" -- would mean they are canceled?

Personally, I see this obviously different than a lot of the players who have posted. How can someone know something that doesn't exist at the time?

chaoticshelly

You keep contradicting yourself. First, you can't refund players for the coin they put into getting a faction base because that money will go directly towards the faction leader, and in many factions it was a shared effort. How are they all going to get what they put in, back? What about the players that have left the factions they were involved in back then?

Second, the feature will be implanted in the future. It will be part of the game. There will be guild wars. I can't think of any other way to put it. Why would you refund a player for something that they will be getting? And do you think the players will appreciate losing all their merit and guild base with it, only having to build it from scratch when the feature is introduced - having a disadvantage over the factions that didn't get a refund and lose their base?

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

You keep contradicting yourself. First, you can't refund players for the coin they put into getting a faction base because that money will go directly towards the faction leader, and in many factions it was a shared effort. How are they all going to get what they put in, back? What about the players that have left the factions they were involved in back then?

Second, the feature will be implanted in the future. It will be part of the game. There will be guild wars. I can't think of any other way to put it. Why would you refund a player for something that they will be getting? And do you think the players will appreciate losing all their merit and guild base with it, only having to build it from scratch when the feature is introduced - having a disadvantage over the factions that didn't get a refund and lose their base?

I really don't know how I can be more clear on what I'm asking... Base wars aren't even coming in the future, it's something that will be "better", right? As for myself being contradicting, I really don't know how else to word this in English, tbh.

If they refunded and closed a faction's base, it would be on that factions accord. Meaning, they would be okay if they lost their base. They wouldn't care if this put there faction at a disadvantage, for not having a base.

Ois - Lost City

ChaoticShelly wrote: »

You keep contradicting yourself. First, you can't refund players for the coin they put into getting a faction base because that money will go directly towards the faction leader, and in many factions it was a shared effort. How are they all going to get what they put in, back? What about the players that have left the factions they were involved in back then?

Second, the feature will be implanted in the future. It will be part of the game. There will be guild wars. I can't think of any other way to put it. Why would you refund a player for something that they will be getting? And do you think the players will appreciate losing all their merit and guild base with it, only having to build it from scratch when the feature is introduced - having a disadvantage over the factions that didn't get a refund and lose their base?

You have a lot of faith in a failing company.

Look I can bold random meaningless words too.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I kind of agree with this. Faction base battles as they were described didn't seem very well thought out.

The point was to steal opponent's building materials but you are never in short supply of materials as you upgrade the base. You are limited by the construction points which you can only get from those mob kill quests.

Also how are you supposed to recover when a guild destroys a building in a battle that literally took months to build?

Yeah, agreed.

You have a stupid corridor with portals.... connected to a lame room. Change the statue in the middle and hey, it's a different room without real purpose. I thought there was going to be an actual outdoor type instance like the videos that were floating around a couple years ago.

As for the mechanics of having it... they were quite senseless as well. Gear is overpriced and ****. The quests too horribly repetitive and simple.

I wish they would add some new interesting quest chains, similar to the 3rd map encampment. That's probably my favorite quest chain in this game.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I really don't know how I can be more clear on what I'm asking... Base wars aren't even coming in the future, it's something that will be "better", right? As for myself being contradicting, I really don't know how else to word this in English, tbh.

If they refunded and closed a faction's base, it would be on that factions accord. Meaning, they would be okay if they lost their base. They wouldn't care if this put there faction at a disadvantage, for not having a base.

And how do you know that the "faction base instance" isn't guild wars only with improved rules that were changed due to player complaints? Many complained 40v40 was too small, this will be larger. Many complained that it would be unfair for guild bases to be destroyed by the various large guilds/TW factions who have better geared players when the smaller factions who got the bases had to come up with the costs as everyone else. Perhaps these instances means the base itself won't be destroyed and instead you'll be fighting it out in a manner similar to TW. Which if so, would rock pretty hard especially if the bases can't be destroyed. Just like Shelly can't know if this will in fact be guild wars, you can't in fact know that it won't be. There just isn't enough information available yet about these faction base instances. Hopefully, we'll have more information before next year.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And how do you know that the "faction base instance" isn't guild wars only with improved rules that were changed due to player complaints? Many complained 40v40 was too small, this will be larger. Many complained that it would be unfair for guild bases to be destroyed by the various large guilds/TW factions who have better geared players when the smaller factions who got the bases had to come up with the costs as everyone else. Perhaps these instances means the base itself won't be destroyed and instead you'll be fighting it out in a manner similar to TW. Which if so, would rock pretty hard especially if the bases can't be destroyed. Just like Shelly can't know if this will in fact be guild wars, you can't in fact know that it won't be. There just isn't enough information available yet about these faction base instances. Hopefully, we'll have more information before next year.

Well, I guess. However, seeing that base wars has been canceled... It wouldn't be base wars. Can't call out that base wars are canceled, to come out 7-10 months later w/ "improved base wars". As far as I'm aware, it's supposed to be something different/new for the faction base instance. The way Frankie made it sound, is that it will be a instance within' an instance.

I.e: PWI > Faction base > new faction base instance

Even if it was base wars, then the cancellation of the original base wars would subsequently be a false statement. Unless they decide to call base wars a different name. But what name would suit a war inside a base? Base battles? I mean, if it is the same idea -- it has already been canceled. If it's a reworked idea, it still would be considered base wars. In order for it to not be base wars, it has to be completely different.

If it is indeed something different, it goes against what was originally stated 6+ months ago -- that base wars were coming with the Earthguard expansion, along w/ the base. Either side of the coin that ya look at, I will see it the same -- a joke, really. It was a feature that was never implemented or worked on at all in PW-CN, yet it was supposed to be here day 1 of the EG expansion. It then, was supposed to be coming soon -- but never came. It was never worked on by Wanmei, and will never be worked on by Wanmei. So, why did it take 6+ months to tell the community this? This is something that should have been brought to the table before players purchased a faction base under the assumption that base wars were going to be inside them. In plain essence, the players were lied too. They were told that the wars would be with the expansion (that's why they purchased the bases), and they weren't with the expansion. They were told it was going to be coming soon, and it never came soon. So, players that bought the guild bases thinking that there would be base wars, only to find out that there was none (and now to find out that they are canceled and never coming), should be able to get a full refund on the guild bases if they desire, because they serve no purpose. While they may serve a purpose (*may*) in 7-10 months, they currently and probably never will really serve a purpose. The intended reason of purchase is long gone, so people that want a refund should be able to receive one.

Aikidou - Lost City

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So, until this new feature "might" come, players who purchased and upgraded the faction base must stick with it? I understand that a new feature "might" come in the future. However, the intended feature that was supposed to have been implemented day one of the Earthguard expansion, wasn't and hasn't, and never will be. This being said, why would the players who spent 200m+ coins on this faction base, assuming the base wars we're there -- not want a refund of their coin/materials used to create and upgrade the base?

What I've been told so far *unoffically -- still waiting on the ticket response*, is players bought the faction base under the assumption base wars we're inside it, but they can't get a refund since there is a feature that "might" come in the future. Like that will solve everything...

If someone tells me I have scotch tape in my backpack, and I open it up to find no tape... Is it okay? Maybe if I have tape somewhere else, eh? But I need tape now! Where's the tape? Pretty much, the same example -- Players opened up the faction base thinking it had something that it doesn't. Am I seriously the only one playing Perfect World International, that can't see the fail logic and immoral companies behind this?



You really like to sidetrack threads about a word, huh? Have it your way!

A community still can apply to a small group of people, within' a larger mass. It's called a sub-community, or a cub-culture. The player base that views the forums is significantly less than the player base that plays the game (naturally). However, the forums players that post can be considered a sub-community. While in the larger sense, they are in the community of PWI players (unless they themselves don't play PWI), and even further out they are in a community of gamers.

What defines a community? It's people (or plants, or animals, etc) coming together in unity to co-exist among one another in a specific habitat.

Annoying ain't i? I'm being as critical of your words as you are being of PWE's words. the way you present a word can cause a situation to go multiple ways. but honestly it really doesn't matter. o_o it's a matter that will solve itself. o_o Despite the Sub-Community Majority's opinion.