Cube Should Not Be Pk Enabled!!!!

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

From all the posts i read in this thread so far, above quote seems like the best way to describe The PK enablement in cube.

Take away the enablement and what do you get?
The same thing as FCC, BH and oracles.
And easy, breeze through it instance/situation to gain a quick fix of exp.(never mind the fact it's a drop in the ocean compared to what fcc gives. it's exp afterall, more exp than a simple "quest" )

FCC is being bashed on because of the glitch and the ease it made people lvl.
BH's have been bashed on cause of the same reason + alot of lovemail as well.
Oracles.. well we all know how most people think about that.

Majority screams PW is unfair yet at the same time when it does pose a decent challange their being too hard/difficult ?b:surrender

It's not that the challenge is so hard or difficult either way. I don't think anyone here is saying, "I don't think it should be so hard," they are saying that both play styles should be respected and allowed to finish their characters. PKing for no reward and camping is the exact reason a lot of people did NOT roll a pvp server.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

It's not that the challenge is so hard or difficult either way. I don't think anyone here is saying, "I don't think it should be so hard," they are saying that both play styles should be respected and allowed to finish their characters. PKing for no reward and camping is the exact reason a lot of people did NOT roll a pvp server.

Ofcourse there is a difference between PK and just mindless camping.

And both playing styles are respected withing cube. Some rooms are Pk enabled and some are safe zones. The required Kill a player rooms even have the option of reverting do-alls to a dice. (regardless of the fact you get a chance or not).

In my honest opinion, cube should stay the way it exactly is. (even much to my husbands dislike) the reason i think it should stay the same is what i said. In comparison to all the other easy sleasy methods of getting your exp, cube, to me, actually gives me a challange.
+ i can opt for it or not by simply not entering.

I get what people are saying, i truly do. but if you look at the comparison in my previous post and take in mind that every single option of exp gain is being exploited, cube will turn into nothing more than a hassled room by room quizlike instance for exp.

there would be no hold up, except the timer in the bored and very bored room would probably slow you down alittle if you land on it. Or one of the "have a listen" mobs take you out, you dont pass the dragon gates, you get killed by the bomb (which to me is highly unlikely) Or you dont pass one of the 100 second stand rooms.


Other than that, cube would pose no challange at ALL.
Sure there are many many mansy variables and different replies to my example that all try and deferr my points + make me see it a different way and start rooting for a 100% pve safe cube, but to me cube is fine the way it is.

Ofcourse the freaking port in corner of room 1 is a whole different argument i AM willing to root for to be changed.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Kirstiein - Sanctuary wrote: »

I do the cube everyday and have for about a year now. I personally rarely get pked outside of rooms 14/34. My char is a cleric so she can be easily killed by a psy atk char. I personally can careless about the rooms being pk enabled. With one exception that being room 45. Having this room pk enabled is stupid, as most players use there macros that have aoes in them. The other day I started doing the cube on my veno. And I accedently killed someone with Noxious Gas that is part of my all purpose atk macro. Having said that. If given the choice I would prefer a non pk enabled cube, but if had both options I would sometimes choose to go pk enabled run for an added challenge, but thats not the case. I find the cube being pk enabled in weird rooms part of the fun, as it forces you too pay attention. I am a pve player but I have found that pvp has greatly improved my ability to adapt to verious challenges in pve. Example of this would be: I go into oht get atked by serveral mobs, if it wasnt for my exp with dealing with this in tw I would have surely died, but I prevailed. As for those who camp and kill in cube for no reason, I do feel this is mean, and I personally will never do it. But without this added inconveince the cube would get dull. So in my personal believe its a nessary evil.

Learning to adapt to various situations is the mark of any skilled player. Being attacked by multiple OHT mobs is a situation where one can apply prior experience from PVP (like you did), prior experience from PVE, or just wing it and gain a functional experience from the encounter itself.

A fair fight in PVP, likewise, can teach you things. Being griefed teaches you nothing.



Not going to bother at replying to all this "lol I spend moar moneyz" **** - at least not on a quoting basis. What I will say is that the customer always should have a say in things regardless of monetary input. There is sadly a bias towards those who spend more in some of today's businesses, and this is sadly just a flaw in our system, one which some write off as a necessary evil.

But no argument of "I spend $9035617249068149068 on PWI" will ever hold water. You know why? Because a smart person, with a large amount of money to be spent on PWI, would just buy stock in the company. Now there's a way to make your voice heard - technically own a fragment of the company. Having r9, by comparison, just makes you look like an uninformed consumer sheep who thinks spending $2k on pixels gives them more of a voice than anyone else. It's a question of intelligence.

That being said, most companies do have an outlet for customer suggestions that isn't pure bull. I've actually considered making a thread lately for the purpose of fielding new ideas on how to get suggestions actually listened to (because come on, the Suggestion Box is a joke). The flat-out cynicism on these boards in the last year or so has become deafening. You can't post a thread anymore without half a dozen people jumping on you with "QQ moar nothing's ever gonna change." Well maybe it would if half the population weren't so complacent. >_>

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That ones must successful at shilling things were in general catering to the middle-lower class eg Walmart. The most successful of them all.

WMT... the place to get 10 dollar shirts/pots... market cap of 180 bil
AAPL... the place for 600 dollar phones/tablets... market cap of 350 bil

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And what is this dollar per vote nonsense? If you want to compare to the legal system in the United States then we all get one vote. That's it. Rich people exert their will through other means but that doesn't mean laymen aren't effective at lobbying either, look at the teacher's unions or the automotive unions.

I believe the response was targeted toward your statement where the average casual player(s) will out spend top cash shopper(s). I just pointed out somewhere where the top 5% have more money then the other 95%.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But as far as voting power goes everyone gets one vote regardless of how much money spend.

You would like to think that won't you. This is not a voting process... this is who a business should cater to. Its the difference between picking up the phone and instantly have a real human banker on the other line... or waiting around for 30 minutes navigating some pre-recorded options only to reach someone who doesn't even speak proper English.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As far as PWI, if the way they open servers is a fair indaction of who they are making their money off of, it's not the hardcore PvPers. It's the PvE players.

Not sure how that helps your argument. Considering half of the people here who wants to keep cube the way it is... is on a PvE server. Just cause I (along with others) are on a PvE server... doesn't mean we want 100% PvE elements.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There is more demand for PvE than PvP. They keep adding PvE content, they add more and more PvE servers (the last three servers were all PvE) and they changed SP to suit PvE players demands on both servers even though that rule makes absolutely no sense at all on a PvE server because if you want to get your SP chorno quest or FB29 done without being PKed, you can turn off PvP entirely.

There is a difference. The chance of you being pked when enter hidden passage is 100% (if you suck). The chance you getting pked on your way to room 38 can't be any higher then 5%. There is maybe 5 or so rooms before 38 that is pk enabled. On a PvE server... maybe only 5% of the population will even attack you. Given that there is about 20 people cubing at any given time... only 2 of those will actively try to kill you. The chance you actually end up in a pk enabled room with any of those 2 is less then 1%.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually if you were going to go dollar for dollar, I'd be willing to bet that though even though people on PvP servers tend to be better geared because they HAVE to be, PvE players tend to make them more money.

I never said that PvP servers would make more money. But I am willing to bet that the top 10% (gear wise) of a PvE server is directly or indirectly responsible for the majority (defined as greater then 50%) of the server's gross income.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

WMT... the place to get 10 dollar shirts/pots... market cap of 180 bil
AAPL... the place for 600 dollar phones/tablets... market cap of 350 bil
2nd Richest person in the world, Bill Gates whose products are generally cheaper than Apples
Richest supermarket chain in the entire country is walmart
Apple wises up and lowers prices on many of it's products, suddenly overtakes Microsoft. Coincidence?
McDonald's introduces dollar menu, revitalizes the industry and takes McDonalds to even greater growth. Suddenly their competition is scrambling to keep up and introduce their own dollar menus.
Even in PWI, they make money more money off of packs at .40 cents rather than 1 gold.

I believe the response was targeted toward your statement where the average casual player(s) will out spend top cash shopper(s). I just pointed out somewhere where the top 5% have more money then the other 95%.

Of course the top 5% of the world has more money than the the top 95% percent. That's the very definition. That doesn't mean they outspend. Look at the richest merchants, they tend to invest their money rather than spend it.

You would like to think that won't you. This is not a voting process... this is who a business should cater to. Its the difference between picking up the phone and instantly have a real human banker on the other line... or waiting around for 30 minutes navigating some pre-recorded options only to reach someone who doesn't even speak proper English.

Your the one that brought up how your vote and voice should count more than Lenies. If you didn't want what voting looks like, you shouldn't have made the statement that you did. I'm not the one that brought it up, you did.

Not sure how that helps your argument. Considering half of the people here who wants to keep cube the way it is... is on a PvE server. Just cause I (along with others) are on a PvE server... doesn't mean we want 100% PvE elements.

Of course they are, nobody is suggesting a rule/instance change for the PvP servers so it really doesn't effect them. At all. So why would they care?

There is a difference. The chance of you being pked when enter hidden passage is 100% (if you suck). The chance you getting pked on your way to room 38 can't be any higher then 5%. There is maybe 5 or so rooms before 38 that is pk enabled. On a PvE server... maybe only 5% of the population will even attack you. Given that there is about 20 people cubing at any given time... only 2 of those will actively try to kill you. The chance you actually end up in a pk enabled room with any of those 2 is less then 1%.

If you suck, the chances of you dying to Silver Frost is pretty high too. But here is the thing, if you do not want to get PKed while doing the quest to get your culti done, you don't have to. You can go blue named. Blue name/white name is respected in SP. If you get PK in there, you had the option to not get PK in there without hindering your ability to get your culti or whatever else you needed to get done in there. This rule makes sense for a PvP server, it makes zero sense for a PvE server.


I never said that PvP servers would make more money. But I am willing to bet that the top 10% (gear wise) of a PvE server is directly or indirectly responsible for the majority (defined as greater then 50%) of the server's gross income.

A lot of the top 10% gear wise do things like nirvy runs and such to get their gear. All you have to do is look at the server champion threads and see people taking the whole "you cash shopped your gear," thing as a compliment because they did not in fact do so. A lot of the richer players did things like merchant/sell heads/run nirvys. Besides, once you have rank 9 you have no reason to keep spending a thousand dollars on this game. You likely start making that gear work for you. Whereas casual spenders tend to keep purchasing because they put money in the game, buy that shiny mount they want, and then have to purchase again later because they didn't make the money work for them. They blow it all right away. The rich players take advantage of this mentality and profit off of it.

replies in yellow

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

From all the posts i read in this thread so far, above quote seems like the best way to describe The PK enablement in cube.

Take away the enablement and what do you get?
The same thing as FCC, BH and oracles.
And easy, breeze through it instance/situation to gain a quick fix of exp.(never mind the fact it's a drop in the ocean compared to what fcc gives. it's exp afterall, more exp than a simple "quest" )

FCC is being bashed on because of the glitch and the ease it made people lvl.
BH's have been bashed on cause of the same reason + alot of lovemail as well.
Oracles.. well we all know how most people think about that.

Majority screams PW is unfair yet at the same time when it does pose a decent challange their being too hard/difficult ?b:surrender

A lot of people don't run cube because of the "cost" rather than they think they are going to be PKed. They view FCC as both a cheaper and better alternative for getting experience. When I do a run, I try to make a profit off of it.

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

Wow, not only did you guys/gals (most likely guys, lol), make it past 30 pages... It's almost at 40! b:dirty

Icingdeath - Dreamweaver

Doqui - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes i reeeealy do feel the need to kill anything that moves in ANY room besides room 1 b:bye

This is why most people hate (most sins not all) sins, Cash shop to get the best gear and have a rude attitude. Personally I don't think any rooms but the two "do-all" rooms should be pk enabled and squading in those rooms should be bannable. I also agree with the other post that SIns should not be allowed to "go ghost" and stay that way in those rooms...To those sins that have class and aren't rude sorry I lumped you in with the others.

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

A lot of people don't run cube because of the "cost" rather than they think they are going to be PKed. They view FCC as both a cheaper and better alternative for getting experience. When I do a run, I try to make a profit off of it.

I had already replied to your other reply to my first post... idk why it's necesairy to quote my first post again and disregard anything else i said. O.o...

And next to that, the profit point is by far the biggest moot point regarding cube. especially where Pk is involved. The question/discussion/debate is

"Should Cube be fully PvE on a pve server?" In essence THAT is what this is all about.
The OP stated this from a
-"i dont have the time"
-"i dont have the money/gear"
point of view.

Yet here we are derailing the thread to point it's suddenly a discussion about market value between apple, microsoft and stocks!
Whether cube is run for profit, fun, exp or all of them the fact still remains that everyone complains about wanting new content that interests and inspires + challanges -everyone-.

What is stopping people, including you, to see it from the general view?

Take a moment to think about all the QQ threads about unfairness within any other instance, any other situation where profit is a given but people are excluded for various reasons. (this being gear, lvl or class).
Is there ANYTHING, beside the mindless camping attitude of some preventing others to do what they do, that does NOT challange people to develop different strategies ?
is there anything that doesn't allow them to be inspired to handle something differently?

All of the above mentioned reason is wat makes cube... uh.. cube?
Where as if we were to take the base principle of every instance and compare them to one another every single time we can conclude, ALL of them are either ran for profit reasons or FAST mass exp. ( when not all of them were intended that way yet mass pressure and sheepishly following masses turned it into an exp fest.)
Hardly anything is a challange because a good team or someone being able to solo it, by means of adapting their strategies/gear + putting effort in it and failing several times before, Is able to do it.

Yet cube puts you back to your basics and personal hunch and instinct.


Now, one more thing i find really ... idk, wierd in the statement of profit withing cube versus it being PK enabled.

Let's say your merchanting and someone keeps undercutting you and your about to go bankrupt because he CAN effectively compete with you and therefor eliminating his competition.
Would that mean, in terms of your defence, mean that every other merchant making more money than you should be shut down JUST because you dont have the time or money to compete properly?
No.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

I had already replied to your other reply to my first post... idk why it's necesairy to quote my first post again and disregard anything else i said. O.o...


Sorry, my post was already quite long and I wanted to respond to your point in both posts comparing it to FC, so I qouted the shorter of the two so I could be lazy and not edit. Didn't meant to offend you. b:surrender

And next to that, the profit point is by far the biggest moot point regarding cube. especially where Pk is involved. The question/discussion/debate is

"Should Cube be fully PvE on a pve server?" In essence THAT is what this is all about.
The OP stated this from a
-"i dont have the time"
-"i dont have the money/gear"
point of view.


I know what the thread is about. And if you go back and read my other posts you'll see that I agree that it should be PvE for very different reasons than the OP. I was just saying that most people aren't mad because the cube is challenging. And that most people avoid it because they think it costs a lot of money to run, not because they are PKed. Turning off/leaving PvP on probably isn't going to change their mind and make it something that is exploited like FC because the cost is what is stopping them from running it in the first place.

Yet here we are derailing the thread to point it's suddenly a discussion about market value between apple, microsoft and stocks!

First Kiyoshi stated that he is controlling the PoF market by Pking in there. And now then he stated that since he spent more money than Lenie, his vote should count more than hers. To which I responded, technically speaking it's the average customer that as a collective brings them the most money not a handful of people who make one time large purchases. So if he wanted to play that game, PWI should be listening to it's casual customers. The rest of that was just other examples of how small purchases from lots of different people can often add up to more buying power than a couple of people making large purchases.

Whether cube is run for profit, fun, exp or all of them the fact still remains that everyone complains about wanting new content that interests and inspires + challanges -everyone-.

What is stopping people, including you, to see it from the general view?

Take a moment to think about all the QQ threads about unfairness within any other instance, any other situation where profit is a given but people are excluded for various reasons. (this being gear, lvl or class).
Is there ANYTHING, beside the mindless camping attitude of some preventing others to do what they do, that does NOT challange people to develop different strategies ?
is there anything that doesn't allow them to be inspired to handle something differently?

All of the above mentioned reason is wat makes cube... uh.. cube?
Where as if we were to take the base principle of every instance and compare them to one another every single time we can conclude, ALL of them are either ran for profit reasons or FAST mass exp. ( when not all of them were intended that way yet mass pressure and sheepishly following masses turned it into an exp fest.)

Not all of them, SP was the main comparison being made. No one goes there for profit/max exp. They go there to finish cultis/fbs. PWI ruled that this reason was an important enough reason to ban anyone who tried to stop them from finishing their chrono culti/fb29 by PKing them even on a PvE server. This despite the fact that you can completely turn off the ability for others to PK you on a PvE server and run it without interference. Yet the instance that actually forces you to be in PK mode to finish your culti no matter what you want isn't treated the same way. That makes very little sense.

Hardly anything is a challange because a good team or someone being able to solo it, by means of adapting their strategies/gear + putting effort in it and failing several times before, Is able to do it.

Yet cube puts you back to your basics and personal hunch and instinct.


Now, one more thing i find really ... idk, wierd in the statement of profit withing cube versus it being PK enabled.

Let's say your merchanting and someone keeps undercutting you and your about to go bankrupt because he CAN effectively compete with you and therefor eliminating his competition.
Would that mean, in terms of your defence, mean that every other merchant making more money than you should be shut down JUST because you dont have the time or money to compete properly?
No.

I was not saying it should be PvE only so I could make a profit.I was saying that people aren't going to exploit it because they think the costs outweigh the benefits especially when compared to FC. Kiyoshi at some point argued he should be able to kill others so he can change the PoF market, which is nonsense but whatever. In fact, if you read my previous post you would see I said i'd even be in support of making rooms 39-49 and all the rooms after it to be a PVP fest.

replies in yellow

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sorry, my post was already quite long and I wanted to respond to your point in both posts comparing it to FC, so I qouted the shorter of the two so I could be lazy and not edit. Didn't meant to offend you.

rofl you didn't offend me, dont worry about it was just wondering. tsk tsk You lazy bum b:chuckle

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I know what the thread is about. And if you go back and read my other posts you'll see that I agree that it should be PvE for very different reasons than the OP. I was just saying that most people aren't mad because the cube is challenging. And that most people avoid it because they think it costs a lot of money to run, not because they are PKed. Turning off/leaving PvP on probably isn't going to change their mind and make it something that is exploited like FC because the cost is what is stopping them from running it in the first place.

Whether or not they think cube is challanging enough, i pulled that in because it is something to take into consideration that weighs out other reasons, at last that is my honest opinion. Ofcourse so are they entitled to their opinion. But most of the time you cant have your cake and eat it too. ( at least that's how the phrase is isn't it ? o.o b:surrender My english is good, but doubting myself sometimes XD )

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

First Kiyoshi stated that he is controlling the PoF market by Pking in there. And now then he stated that since he spent more money than Lenie, his vote should count more than hers. To which I responded, technically speaking it's the average customer that as a collective brings them the most money not a handful of people who make one time large purchases. So if he wanted to play that game, PWI should be listening to it's casual customers. The rest of that was just other examples of how small purchases from lots of different people can often add up to more buying power than a couple of people making large purchases.

Yeah, and it isn't something that adds to the original topic, is it? Don't feed something with useless debate if it doesn't correspond.
Which in this case it surely doesn't. Personal gain and opinion vs. profit of a company and a collective average user percentage is a whole different thing concerning an ingame issue (cube) Vs. personal frustration.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Not all of them, SP was the main comparison being made. No one goes there for profit/max exp. They go there to finish cultis/fbs. PWI ruled that this reason was an important enough reason to ban anyone who tried to stop them from finishing their chrono culti/fb29 by PKing them even on a PvE server. This despite the fact that you can completely turn off the ability for others to PK you on a PvE server and run it without interference. Yet the instance that actually forces you to be in PK mode to finish your culti no matter what you want isn't treated the same way. That makes very little sense.

I DID compare them, reason? Simply because everything else is already buttscratching easy, isn't it?

And it could be that there is something i am completely forgetting on Missing, but i do not remember EVER having to go into cube for my culti. Like the public version cube. other not to public version being those 2 4minute survival rooms, which i assumed were same set up of cube but a different "instance" without anyone else being able to enter that room.

Could be that i didn't bother to remember it cause it was so easy or that i just simply forgot cause it's been SO long ago x.x care to fill me in? ( i looked at the culti explaination on the main page too and i cant find any other cube reference other than those 2 ,4 minute survival rooms)

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I was not saying it should be PvE only so I could make a profit.I was saying that people aren't going to exploit it because they think the costs outweigh the benefits especially when compared to FC. Kiyoshi at some point argued he should be able to kill others so he can change the PoF market, which is nonsense but whatever. In fact, if you read my previous post you would see I said i'd even be in support of making rooms 39-49 and all the rooms after it to be a PVP fest.

Mkay, my bad for not reading those then. My post isn't entirely diected at you either, it's at most of the people that are complaining about cube. More than likely were both debating the same exact point just in a different manner and mind set.

It just bugs me that the majority of people are usually complaining about anything and nearly everything being as easy as it is, yet when something actually IS mediocre or to some hard in difficulty they want it changed to be easy...

It's the same argument we had about TT3... some people flew through it with ease, yet others had the hardest time ever and some never even made it.
There will always be people who are NOT going to make it. and it that case yes, it's either adapt or die. PWI simply can not start creating personal preferred content and treat everyone wilk silken gloves. If thats what people are looking for they are looking for simple rpg's on a console or downloadable 1pve worlds where they can be king and queen.
They want interaction with real people? violence is also part of real people.


Another thing i dont really get, in general, not from your posts. is that suddenly when there is a person behind something that kills you it's a flaw that needs to be fixed. but when it's a mechanical (mob or boss) issue, -most- people try to adapt (apoth goods, refining/sharding gear, calling in fiends etc etc) Yet when apparently a -toon- is involved it's unfair?
and of they do not want to treat a hostile toon just like a mob or boss (i.e. adapt in apoth, strategy, gear + thinking pattern) why do they start something that they know is the way it is and then suddenly want it changed because hey feel it will benefit -everyone-

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

rofl you didn't offend me, dont worry about it was just wondering. tsk tsk You lazy bum b:chuckle

b:chuckle


Whether or not they think cube is challanging enough, i pulled that in because it is something to take into consideration that weighs out other reasons, at last that is my honest opinion. Ofcourse so are they entitled to their opinion. But most of the time you cant have your cake and eat it too. ( at least that's how the phrase is isn't it ? o.o b:surrender My english is good, but doubting myself sometimes XD )

That phrase means "you can't have it both ways." So saying I'm entitled to their opinion but of course that means they are entitled to theirs as well is the correct usage of the term.


Yeah, and it isn't something that adds to the original topic, is it? Don't feed something with useless debate if it doesn't correspond.
Which in this case it surely doesn't. Personal gain and opinion vs. profit of a company and a collective average user percentage is a whole different thing concerning an ingame issue (cube) Vs. personal frustration.


Meh, I tend to take people's posts at face value until proven otherwise. Just because an opinion isn't a popular one doesn't mean they are a troll.

I DID compare them, reason? Simply because everything else is already buttscratching easy, isn't it?

And it could be that there is something i am completely forgetting on Missing, but i do not remember EVER having to go into cube for my culti. Like the public version cube. other not to public version being those 2 4minute survival rooms, which i assumed were same set up of cube but a different "instance" without anyone else being able to enter that room.

Could be that i didn't bother to remember it cause it was so easy or that i just simply forgot cause it's been SO long ago x.x care to fill me in? ( i looked at the culti explaination on the main page too and i cant find any other cube reference other than those 2 ,4 minute survival rooms)

IT's not directly apart of the culti chain, but you must complete the chorno questline up to a certain point in order to finish your cultivation. In order to finish your cultivation, get all of your skills, etc you must get to room 38 for your chrono questline. Some people consider it a part of the culti itself because it's a quest you must complete to change your spiritual cultivation level. Others don't because it's not directly a part of the cultivation quest chain. The only quest in SP that can be considered part of the cultivation (by the first definition) is the quest to kill silver frost. Which is also a part of the chrono quest line. People who were whitenamed on a pve server were being killed on their way to kill silver frost or on their way to help with peoples fb29 (which is totally optional quest that does not affect your cultivation even indirectly). People complained and thus the gms banned it on both PvE and PvP servers. Saying that since you needed to do it to get your culti done, and people were interfering with that culti, it was banned. The only quest in there that effects culti is the chorno quest to kill silver frost. Why are they banning people for interfering with people's chorno questline by Pking them in SP when the person can make themselves immune to such action on a PvE server, but sanctioning it in the only instance in the entire game where the only reason to PK a non hostile person is to ruin their day, when the two people are attempting to complete the exact same culti? The difference being that you can't make yourself immune to PK in cube, but you can do so on a PvE server in SP? The rule makes little sense.

Mkay, my bad for not reading those then. My post isn't entirely diected at you either, it's at most of the people that are complaining about cube. More than likely were both debating the same exact point just in a different manner and mind set.

It just bugs me that the majority of people are usually complaining about anything and nearly everything being as easy as it is, yet when something actually IS mediocre or to some hard in difficulty they want it changed to be easy...

It's the same argument we had about TT3... some people flew through it with ease, yet others had the hardest time ever and some never even made it.
There will always be people who are NOT going to make it. and it that case yes, it's either adapt or die. PWI simply can not start creating personal preferred content and treat everyone wilk silken gloves. If thats what people are looking for they are looking for simple rpg's on a console or downloadable 1pve worlds where they can be king and queen.
They want interaction with real people? violence is also part of real people.

Some people don't like seeing violence in real life either, even in movies/television. They know it exists, they just don't want to focus on it/welcome it into their homes.

Another thing i dont really get, in general, not from your posts. is that suddenly when there is a person behind something that kills you it's a flaw that needs to be fixed. but when it's a mechanical (mob or boss) issue, -most- people try to adapt (apoth goods, refining/sharding gear, calling in fiends etc etc) Yet when apparently a -toon- is involved it's unfair?
and of they do not want to treat a hostile toon just like a mob or boss (i.e. adapt in apoth, strategy, gear + thinking pattern) why do they start something that they know is the way it is and then suddenly want it changed because hey feel it will benefit -everyone-


Some people just don't like to player vs player battle. There are many different reasons. So they roll a PvE server, only to be told that even though they say it's PvE if you want to finish your character you're still going to have to PvP. You still don't have a real choice in the matter. To add insult to injury, the only reason to PK a non hostile person in the cube is to ruin their run. There are no other rewards for it. It's not like it's challenging to one shot a person who much lower level/way less geared than you and who has made no attempt to attack you.

replies in yellow

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That phrase means "you can't have it both ways." So saying I'm entitled to their opinion but of course that means they are entitled to theirs as well is the correct usage of the term.

Ty, and i meant it more along the lines of the argument, but also applies on the opinions.
Where as i think if cube would be entirely pve there'd be no fun at all. ( but i suppose that's personal preference where others might root for it.)
and if as you say -some- rooms to be pk enabled you will still have the QQ of people being one shotted. Specially in the current state of the game.

either way pwi goes there will always be a downside to it for -a- majority of people.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

IT's not directly apart of the culti chain, but you must complete the chorno questline up to a certain point in order to finish your cultivation. In order to finish your cultivation, get all of your skills, etc you must get to room 38 for your chrono questline. Some people consider it a part of the culti itself because it's a quest you must complete to change your spiritual cultivation level. Others don't because it's not directly a part of the cultivation quest chain. The only quest in SP that can be considered part of the cultivation (by the first definition) is the quest to kill silver frost. Which is also a part of the chrono quest line. People who were whitenamed on a pve server were being killed on their way to kill silver frost or on their way to help with peoples fb29 (which is totally optional quest that does not affect your cultivation even indirectly). People complained and thus the gms banned it on both PvE and PvP servers. Saying that since you needed to do it to get your culti done, and people were interfering with that culti, it was banned. The only quest in there that effects culti is the chorno quest to kill silver frost. Why are they banning people for interfering with people's chorno questline by Pking them in SP when the person can make themselves immune to such action on a PvE server, but sanctioning it in the only instance in the entire game where the only reason to PK a non hostile person is to ruin their day, when the two people are attempting to complete the exact same culti? The difference being that you can't make yourself immune to PK in cube, but you can do so on a PvE server in SP? The rule makes little sense.

Pff.. i still can not rmember for the damned death of me that i ever had to enter cube for a quest >.<.
Other wise, Point taken and noted, culti part indeed can be annoying.
suppose that also where the, cant have it both ways thing comes in, i already feel everything else is as easy as it is. working hard and indeed get frustrated with something for not completing it within a certain time frame makes me appreciate the accomplishment even more when i do.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Some people don't like seeing violence in real life either, even in movies/television. They know it exists, they just don't want to focus on it/welcome it into their homes.

Cube isn't home, it's a public place. S.ex violence and forced advertisement is present in public places, in real life people that dont want that dont go there, when they -have- to, they endure and get it over with. O.o

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Some people just don't like to player vs player battle. There are many different reasons. So they roll a PvE server, only to be told that even though they say it's PvE if you want to finish your character you're still going to have to PvP. You still don't have a real choice in the matter. To add insult to injury, the only reason to PK a non hostile person in the cube is to ruin their run. There are no other rewards for it. It's not like it's challenging to one shot a person who much lower level/way less geared than you and who has made no attempt to attack you.

i really have no reply to this, you are right, there is no sense to it.
I suppose because my expierence is different i dont really see it as that much of a problem.
If PW could find a way to make accomplishing that quest easier, good.
I just hope it wont affect cube as a whole, like you know, make the whole damn thing pve safe.
That would so, so damn much suck.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

AnimaBlanc - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ty, and i meant it more along the lines of the argument, but also applies on the opinions.
Where as i think if cube would be entirely pve there'd be no fun at all. ( but i suppose that's personal preference where others might root for it.)
and if as you say -some- rooms to be pk enabled you will still have the QQ of people being one shotted. Specially in the current state of the game.

either way pwi goes there will always be a downside to it for -a- majority of people.

Well the reason most people who want cube to be pve say they would leave those two pk rooms in, is exactly because you can bypass them if you wish.


Pff.. i still can not rmember for the damned death of me that i ever had to enter cube for a quest >.<.
Other wise, Point taken and noted, culti part indeed can be annoying.
suppose that also where the, cant have it both ways thing comes in, i already feel everything else is as easy as it is. working hard and indeed get frustrated with something for not completing it within a certain time frame makes me appreciate the accomplishment even more when i do.

It's already pretty hard due to the random nature of the cube to get that room in the first place. In fact, even PvP enabled the greatest difficulty in completing that culti is even rolling the dice to get to room 38. One of my friends tried for five days to get there, three hours a day and didn't get there until his last attempt on the fifth day. I think he tried for a total of about 17 hours. I mean that is an example of extraordinary bad luck and is certainly not the norm, but it's not like the people who get there without being PKed didn't already have a challenge. It's a harder quest to complete as is than most of the other quests. When he did get there, someone PKed him before he could talk to the NPC. Tried for two more days, then was like **** this game i'm playing call of duty. I still can't get him to play with me anymore XD.

Cube isn't home, it's a public place. S.ex violence and forced advertisement is present in public places, in real life people that dont want that dont go there, when they -have- to, they endure and get it over with. O.o

That was more along the lines of you saying they want human interaction don't they? Humans are violent. Just because they want to play with other people, doesn't mean they want to do so in a combat nature. They just want to PvE that's why they choose a PvE server.

i really have no reply to this, you are right, there is no sense to it.
I suppose because my expierence is different i dont really see it as that much of a problem.
If PW could find a way to make accomplishing that quest easier, good.
I just hope it wont affect cube as a whole, like you know, make the whole damn thing pve safe.
That would so, so damn much suck.

Like I said in previous posts, I agree with you. I wish they would update the game content to make a more satisfactory solution for everyone. For example, selling an item that makes you unable to attack others, but immune from being forced into PvP. Or took the chrono quest line out of the cube. Or gave people who wanted to do it for items an option for it to be PvP enabled for greater rewards but for people who just want to get their culti done they could so without the hassle.Perhaps limit where you can PK in the cube, but then give you greater rewards for finishing the whole thing so that most people would at least be inclined to try. The content is stagnant and hasn't changed to reflect the realities of the new gear/players and it's frustrating. But since that will probably never happen, it's more pragmatic to ask them to change the cube rules like they did for SP. >.< It's one of those things where PvPers are getting it both ways and PvE people are just being told, "sucks to be you, either play our way or don't finish your character." If you rolled a PvE server you shouldn't be able to force people to PvP with you when they are just trying to get their culti done and don't want to fight you in such a manner. Yet that the way it is.

My replies in yellow

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Just to let everyone know... I submitted a ticket about the unfairness of chrono being in Cube (because, as much as I would love to be able to run a PvE Cube for fun/Pages, I would be happy just to at least be able to do chrono for culti and think that should be removed/changed). Yesterday BearClaw popped into the game to talk to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/liandera/GM.jpg

She told me that when it comes time for my archer to need room 38 (which will be soon), that I could reply to the ticket and she will come into the game and teleport her there. I was very impressed that they responded to me in like two days... and that they offered a solution. However, it is really not an ideal solution, since she also said that in order to teleport me in someone had to be in room 38 at the time, so technically once I need it I have to have friends run Cube until they hit room 38 and *then* respond to the ticket. So I am basically relying on someone else to run Cube for me... and who's to say if I can find that someone.

So, while I am happy that they at least tried, I also suggested that they implement (for the future) a way of choosing to teleport directly from the chrono NPC. They could even charge 200k or something for those that choose to teleport via running Cube, I don't mind. That way, there would be A) no worry about finding someone already in room 38 for it to work and no freaking out that you might die the one time they ported you in and fail your chance (this worries me atm lol). I urge all of you that are of the same belief as me to send in tickets suggesting something like this, or at least telling or your unhappiness in the current situation. BearClaw said she would talk to the devs about what I suggested, but it would probably go a lot better if they heard from more people.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just to let everyone know... I submitted a ticket about the unfairness of chrono being in Cube (because, as much as I would love to be able to run a PvE Cube for fun/Pages, I would be happy just to at least be able to do chrono for culti and think that should be removed/changed). Yesterday BearClaw popped into the game to talk to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/liandera/GM.jpg

She told me that when it comes time for my archer to need room 38 (which will be soon), that I could reply to the ticket and she will come into the game and teleport her there. I was very impressed that they responded to me in like two days... and that they offered a solution. However, it is really not an ideal solution, since she also said that in order to teleport me in someone had to be in room 38 at the time, so technically once I need it I have to have friends run Cube until they hit room 38 and *then* respond to the ticket. So I am basically relying on someone else to run Cube for me... and who's to say if I can find that someone.

So, while I am happy that they at least tried, I also suggested that they implement (for the future) a way of choosing to teleport directly from the chrono NPC. They could even charge 200k or something for those that choose to teleport via running Cube, I don't mind. That way, there would be A) no worry about finding someone already in room 38 for it to work and no freaking out that you might die the one time they ported you in and fail your chance (this worries me atm lol). I urge all of you that are of the same belief as me to send in tickets suggesting something like this, or at least telling or your unhappiness in the current situation. BearClaw said she would talk to the devs about what I suggested, but it would probably go a lot better if they heard from more people.

o.o That's really impressive. I'll make sure to remember this and submit it when it's closer to time for me to do the same.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Just to let everyone know... I submitted a ticket about the unfairness of chrono being in Cube (because, as much as I would love to be able to run a PvE Cube for fun/Pages, I would be happy just to at least be able to do chrono for culti and think that should be removed/changed). Yesterday BearClaw popped into the game to talk to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/liandera/GM.jpg

She told me that when it comes time for my archer to need room 38 (which will be soon), that I could reply to the ticket and she will come into the game and teleport her there. I was very impressed that they responded to me in like two days... and that they offered a solution. However, it is really not an ideal solution, since she also said that in order to teleport me in someone had to be in room 38 at the time, so technically once I need it I have to have friends run Cube until they hit room 38 and *then* respond to the ticket. So I am basically relying on someone else to run Cube for me... and who's to say if I can find that someone.

So, while I am happy that they at least tried, I also suggested that they implement (for the future) a way of choosing to teleport directly from the chrono NPC. They could even charge 200k or something for those that choose to teleport via running Cube, I don't mind. That way, there would be A) no worry about finding someone already in room 38 for it to work and no freaking out that you might die the one time they ported you in and fail your chance (this worries me atm lol). I urge all of you that are of the same belief as me to send in tickets suggesting something like this, or at least telling or your unhappiness in the current situation. BearClaw said she would talk to the devs about what I suggested, but it would probably go a lot better if they heard from more people.

Told ya..

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would also suggest, since it's evidently been done, submit a ticket detailing your objections, and your attempts, while having the room 38 quest in your active quests, and they just might complete the quest for you. Completing quests is one of a few things the GM's can do, and have done before (done for me when the Warrior of God quest glitched and couldn't spawn him nor trash quest to the point of being able to complete it), especially if you're nice about it.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

She told me that when it comes time for my archer to need room 38 (which will be soon), that I could reply to the ticket and she will come into the game and teleport her there. I was very impressed that they responded to me in like two days... and that they offered a solution. However, it is really not an ideal solution, since she also said that in order to teleport me in someone had to be in room 38 at the time, so technically once I need it I have to have friends run Cube until they hit room 38 and *then* respond to the ticket. So I am basically relying on someone else to run Cube for me... and who's to say if I can find that someone.

Even in my younger days... my problem with my cult isn't that I can't live to get to 38. Its that I get to 50 before I can 38. I am willing to get one of my low level alts to room 38 and log there for those who needs 38 tp. Hell... I am even willing to park her next to the ending npc rather then the starting npc. And how much any of you want to bet that my alt (8x level) will not get pked.

EDIT: 1 million coins per use of tp. Sorry... but I don't do anything for free.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Told ya..

LOL that you did Janus

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would also suggest, since it's evidently been done, submit a ticket detailing your objections, and your attempts, while having the room 38 quest in your active quests, and they just might complete the quest for you. Completing quests is one of a few things the GM's can do, and have done before (done for me when the Warrior of God quest glitched and couldn't spawn him nor trash quest to the point of being able to complete it), especially if you're nice about it.

They aren't completing the quest for me. To complete room 38 for me would be *way* easier than the method they gave me. As it is, I have to get someone to run Cube for me, and hit room 38, for their method to work. So I still can't say for sure that I will be able to get it done.

I'm certainly not paying Kiyoshi to do it. :P

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

This topic is amazing. I simply cannot fathom how anyone would have so much incredible trouble with room 38 and talking to one NPC.
The worst part about 38 is getting to the other side....not having someone kill you in there. I think you all are running a very different edition of the cube than I am. From what I see, PKer's are few and far between, and I run 4 characters thru it a day. Yes, theres the occasional camper, or whatever. But you people make it sound like there's rampant camping, and people waiting in every PK room looking to kill you...like its mass chaos and constant massacre in there.
This simply is not how it is in the cube. Not on DW.
More likely I think this has been grossly blown out of proportion by people who A)have never been in the cube and are judging the PK aspect on no personal experience, or have been killed once, maybe twice, aare now are scorned and blowing this room 38 quest way out of proportion.

LilNai - Harshlands

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This topic is amazing. I simply cannot fathom how anyone would have so much incredible trouble with room 38 and talking to one NPC.
The worst part about 38 is getting to the other side....not having someone kill you in there. I think you all are running a very different edition of the cube than I am. From what I see, PKer's are few and far between, and I run 4 characters thru it a day. Yes, theres the occasional camper, or whatever. But you people make it sound like there's rampant camping, and people waiting in every PK room looking to kill you...like its mass chaos and constant massacre in there.
This simply is not how it is in the cube. Not on DW.
More likely I think this has been grossly blown out of proportion by people who A)have never been in the cube and are judging the PK aspect on no personal experience, or have been killed once, maybe twice, aare now are scorned and blowing this room 38 quest way out of proportion.

^qft!

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

This topic is amazing. I simply cannot fathom how anyone would have so much incredible trouble with room 38 and talking to one NPC.
The worst part about 38 is getting to the other side....not having someone kill you in there. I think you all are running a very different edition of the cube than I am. From what I see, PKer's are few and far between, and I run 4 characters thru it a day. Yes, theres the occasional camper, or whatever. But you people make it sound like there's rampant camping, and people waiting in every PK room looking to kill you...like its mass chaos and constant massacre in there.
This simply is not how it is in the cube. Not on DW.
More likely I think this has been grossly blown out of proportion by people who A)have never been in the cube and are judging the PK aspect on no personal experience, or have been killed once, maybe twice, aare now are scorned and blowing this room 38 quest way out of proportion.

I mean, nothing in this game is that big of a deal. It's a video game. But I did pick a PvE server for a reason. If you aren't going to eventually finish your character/aren't doing it for the quests but you're also not going to PvP then...what's the point?

DaggerSin_ - Heavens Tear

Don't like pking in cube, stay out of the cube, I do and it works wonders.

Doqui - Raging Tide

There is no such thing as a pve server.
There is however an option to not pvp, simply do not switch to pk mode and stay out of the cube.


And if you do not want to get killed in the cube, just kill them first
No war has ever been won by just QQing b:bye

didi

Imo Pwi/pwe have shown that they don't put enough thoughts into certain things like cube and possibly guild base. On the other hand, the reason could be because its hard to understand the majority's interest, and its a challange to tie say pve and pvp's interest together.

The risk of that is guild base might turn out to be dull and lifeless. Imo guild base could be the biggest thing for this game. It could be more popular then tw, but to get there seems like such a challange that it might not happen yet in this game. Judging from what i've seen, pwi/pwe overlooked too many things so they might not be able to do it alone without players input, in bringing us a guild base that will attract majority of players, with participation rate high and continues. The problem with that is, we might quickly get bored of it and 2-3 months later, we complain that theres not enough content end game blah blah blah.

With cube, the rules worked perfectly fine for the first 2 years but it should have been designed so that it can easily be updated to evolve with the changes that were added after that. During the first 2 years any char or level 80+ who go into cube had a fighting chance. These day however, the difference between a level 90x compared to a 100x can be so much that there is not much difference between standing still and fighting back. The 90x is going to die if i'm not wrong.

It can be extremely fustrating if i was to go into cube with my level 90 cleric and be forced into a pvp situation where i have zero chance or hope of surviving. Imagine what its like to run into mobs that one shot you each and every single time you see them. Thats not fun. Thats not challanging. Thats frustrating especially if you lose all the time and effort you have made so far.

With the exception of the 2 room, people should not be forced into a pvp or any situation where there is zero chance or hope of surviving. They should have a choice to avoid that. If they choose to avoid that, that means they are taking the easy way, therefore does not deserve the same reward imo. Another way of looking at it is, if you do more or are willing to take it further, you deserve more for it.

Personally, I don't think the current situation with cube is too big of a deal that needs to be changed if it cost them too much, and since not many take part in random pk. However, its very important to recognise that force pvp in most room in cube is wrong and a mistake these days. If this problem is not understood, and is allowed to happen again in guild base, then guild base will suffer. What we risk is a low participation rate, with less pve content and pvp won't be as challanging and fun as it could be.

Imo, mmo should offer people a chance to express themself freely and give people a chance to experience things that is not possible or too difficult to do in real life. In regards to pvp, it should give people a chance to see whats it like to be skillful, tallanted and heroic etc.

Imagine what its like to be well known by your guild, friends, enemy and even strangers for your skills and tallents in pvp. Imagine what its like to have people cheer for you like a gladiator. Imagine what its like to experience what alexander the great feels when he conquers his enemy doing what his father wanted to but couldn't. Imagine what its like to have Sun Tzu's art of war on your side in helping you defeat your enemy before a battle is even fought. Imagin what its like to be outnumbered by your enemy yet you and you alliance manage to out smart your enemy and win the war. These are the sort of experience that can exist in mmorpg and most of it did exist in in the mmorpg game i played before this, and to me, such experience are irreplaceable by any kind of pixel goods that i can think of. I think guild base can offer such experience too to some extent if implimented properly.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

But you people make it sound like there's rampant camping, and people waiting in every PK room looking to kill you...like its mass chaos and constant massacre in there.
This simply is not how it is in the cube. Not on DW.
More likely I think this has been grossly blown out of proportion by people who A)have never been in the cube and are judging the PK aspect on no personal experience, or have been killed once, maybe twice, aare now are scorned and blowing this room 38 quest way out of proportion.

I'm not on DW. There is often rampant camping on HT. I get pked no less than 3 times per run generally, and usually end up quitting.

Point A and Point B certainly do not apply to me. I ran Cube every day getting my veno to 101, back when people on HT weren't such jerks. Now it is too upsetting to me to be mindlessly slaughtered by sins waiting in stealth until I finally quit.

Doqui - Raging Tide wrote: »

There is no such thing as a pve server.
There is however an option to not pvp, simply do not switch to pk mode and stay out of the cube.


And if you do not want to get killed in the cube, just kill them first
No war has ever been won by just QQing b:bye

I guess it is blatant false advertising on their part then, seeing as when I chose this server I did so because of the PVE written next to it.

And as I have stated previously, I am a PvE player. I do not, nor will I ever, pk. And even if I did, killing them first would not be an option for me seeing as the pattern is: sin unstealths beside me, stuns before I can even acknowledge his presence, sparks and I am dead. Sometimes with no spark on the rank 9 ones.

I am not asking that they change Cube. As much as I would love to run it without being griefed, I have given up on that. All I want is for the chrono that is needed for spiritual cultivation 100 to be removed, so that we are not forced into PvP to attain our skills and finish quests.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

There's ONE quest that requires you to go through cube. One.


And no one really camps cube at all.


I go through cube all the time, and I'd say maybe 1 in every 10 runs I run into a PKer. Majority of the time I just never see anyone at all. I can get room 14/34 and the 20 minute timer will run out long before anyone else comes in.

LilNai - Harshlands

lolPVE

bonbonsmalisia

i do cube everyday and all the BS about campers is hilarious, noone ever attacked me for no reason, well maybe once or twice for 6 months lol

all of those posts are made by frustarted losers that got killed in room 14 and 34 that are ment to kill

i got offended and raged at hundrets of times by people who got killed in 14-34 by me, called a noob by a cleric who i killed coz i didnt use do all cards as EVERYONE should,


ice on the cake situation from today

got called a effing loser and a failed dummy who cant play their own class by a bm who i owend in rooom 14 today, he qq'ed to me i should have waited for someoen higher level than him or at my level, coz killing lower levels in 14 is bad and immoral, ya im so immoral for 1 shotting a bm who attacked me being 20 levers lower, i am ment to let myself die or wait another 40 mins for someone to tele being hitted by that bm just becouse it happened to be that im higher level

YES I WILL WAIT AND VIEW EVERYONES ARMOR before ill even try to attack coz OMFG i might kill a lowbie NUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

its just ur brain problems ppl

u cant take the fact of loosing, the game took control over ur mind and life, loosing in game is like looising in reality coz the game became ur life, why else act so mean and angry for a death thats necessary to pass

u just cant take the fact u got owned

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear

can we reach 40 pages? I have something in my pants that is saying "yes, yes, yes".

Edit: Page 40! I just came.