Cube Should Not Be Pk Enabled!!!!

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How does the cube encourage griefing? I have yet to see an applicable rationale that doesn't involve the usual red herring psychological evaluation of a player.

Okay, perhaps I was hasty to use the term "encourage" as a description of what the cube actively does. Rather, its allowance of needless PK reinforces the idea that, yes, it's okay to kill other people for no good reason who have no interest in competing with you and, indeed, whose death will not benefit you in any measurable way.

As one person a few pages back put it, let's just call a spade a spade. Cube PKers are, essentially, people who get enjoyment out of ruining that of others. And that is not behavior which should be allowed to flourish. You would not excuse the behavior of a child who harasses his peers in a sandbox by kicking sand into their faces (at least, not if you were a responsible parent). You would not attempt to rationalize that child's behavior with flimsy excuses. You would not attempt to convince the other child's parents that it's their fault for bringing their child into the sandbox to begin with. But such is the rationale of a cube PKer.

Kiyoshi wrote:

All things considered... I actually prefer to have my current rep over any other viable alternative. It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling when there is a whole guild watching for my every action in an effort to save one of their own. I am actually building teamwork here.

Don't flatter yourself. This was maybe two or three people having a good laugh over who you are and what you do (versus what you think you do). Nobody but me was even doing cube at that time.

Kiyoshi wrote:

Wonder if its that cleric in room 11 that warned you. The only reason s/he lived is cause s/he had the balls to walk directly toward me (even if she waited for over a minute and assume i was afk and even put on plume shell). Any sorta of a curved path to avoid me would ensure instant death.

The person who updated me on your position was not part of that faction, nor were they a cleric. And come on, curved paths? Why are you going out of your way to pretend you have a method to the madness? You've already told me flat-out that you will kill anyone for any reason or no reason at all. Don't pretend that our ability to read your mind will dictate your whims.

Kiyoshi wrote:

Whatever that room is with the dog that you gotta kill. After having my sin being killed while I was afk killing the dog to grab some water. I make a point of my to drop anyone that tp in there before or after me.

So this is, what - an example of "abused becomes abuser?" :P

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, perhaps I was hasty to use the term "encourage" as a description of what the cube actively does. Rather, its allowance of needless PK reinforces the idea that, yes, it's okay to kill other people for no good reason who have no interest in competing with you and, indeed, whose death will not benefit you in any measurable way.

As one person a few pages back put it, let's just call a spade a spade. Cube PKers are, essentially, people who get enjoyment out of ruining that of others. And that is not behavior which should be allowed to flourish. You would not excuse the behavior of a child who harasses his peers in a sandbox by kicking sand into their faces (at least, not if you were a responsible parent). You would not attempt to rationalize that child's behavior with flimsy excuses. You would not attempt to convince the other child's parents that it's their fault for bringing their child into the sandbox to begin with. But such is the rationale of a cube PKer.

Using this example........if said sandbox was a dodgeball court, would you still feel the same way? You would know going into a dodgeball court, you're gonna get hit. If all of PWi were a playground or whatever metaphor you want , one small corner of it is enabled for person on person competition for dodgeball.
If one guy kept going into a dodgeball court and getting smashed in the face, knowing full well he would, yet still complained about it, should that entire game be taken away from those who enjoy it? When the entire rest of the playground is tailored to his needs as non-competitive?

The rationale of non-cube PKer's is that those of us who do partake are all morons. I don't want to PK all the time, but when I do want to, the cube is nice little corner of the game where I can partake. And yes, I will check ppls gear before attacking. Equally geared or close to it. Not all of us want to go endlessly kill low levels.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That 8mins a day really wouldn't have served that purpose on pay to play. If you want to think that way, it serves more of a purpose now to cashshop better gear to survive the rooms.

And I'm sorry, but its NOT a "fact" of any kind that theres no reason. The only FACT is that there 2 sides to the argument. Myself and many, many others see why PK should be left alone and that it was fully designed this way and has purpose. And then theres those of you see the opposite.
I'm not claiming my side of it as written in stone fact. Its simply my opinion the cube is as originally intended by the original developers. Its a bit arrogant to label your opinion as a fact and even go as far as to stress it as such.

Question then:

Does killing someone in the cube serve a purpose other than "just because you can?" Guess what, the answer is no. You get nothing from killing another player other than in 2 specific rooms and those rooms are not in question. Meaning, it is a fact that the pk in any other room has no purpose.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Using this example........if said sandbox was a dodgeball court, would you still feel the same way? You would know going into a dodgeball court, you're gonna get hit. If all of PWi were a playground or whatever metaphor you want , one small corner of it is enabled for person on person competition for dodgeball.
If one guy kept going into a dodgeball court and getting smashed in the face, knowing full well he would, yet still complained about it, should that entire game be taken away from those who enjoy it? When the entire rest of the playground is tailored to his needs as non-competitive?

You don't go into a dodgeball court to do anything but play dodgeball. This example is more comparable to other instances such as PK tournament, which are not being discussed in this thread because everyone here agrees that some events are built around PK. With the exception of a very few specific rooms, cube is not one of these.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

As one person a few pages back put it, let's just call a spade a spade. Cube PKers are, essentially, people who get enjoyment out of ruining that of others.

I should probably point out... that due to my archer (maybe even sin)'s "questionable" approach toward the game. I have gotten a lot of attention from real life female venos... we're talking about people that I have webcam AND called to confirm. And all of them are actually pretty cute too. That just goes to show you that girls dig bad boys.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You don't go into a dodgeball court to do anything but play dodgeball. This example is more comparable to other instances such as PK tournament, which are not being discussed in this thread because everyone here agrees that some events are built around PK. With the exception of a very few specific rooms, cube is not one of these.

Yes, this.

If I go into a pk tourney, I expect to get pked because well, that's the entire point.
If I go into a TW I expect to die a lot from other players killing me because that's the point.

In both of those situations, there isn't anything else to do that isn't pk, so if someone complains about getting pked in either of those places, something is wrong with them.

However in the cube there are things to do other than pk.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Using this example........if said sandbox was a dodgeball court, would you still feel the same way? You would know going into a dodgeball court, you're gonna get hit.

the cube isn't a dodgeball court, though. that analogy would be perfectly apt if you applied it to the dragon temple event, or the PVP arena; but a better analogy for the cube would be a hallway people go through for any number of unrelated reasons, in which some group of people have decided to hold a dodgeball game. and they insist on trying to drag in random passersby into their game, using "don't step into our dodgeball court" as their flimsy-*** excuse.

you wanna PVP, there's any number of places in the game you can go do it. hell, turn whitename and you have the whole of the open map to do it! but you insist on not only doing it in an instance where other people come to do things that have nothing to do with PVP, but then you further insist on PKing them for being there simply because you can PK them there.

and that's another reason for objecting to cube PVP, totally unrelated to the "can't do culti" one; even if i still CAN do culti in the cube, why should doing my culti force me to do PVP as well? i'm just walking down that hallway heading for my culti thing, why are these PKers insisting on dragging me into their stupid dodgeball game i don't want to join? they can play dodgeball anywhere else they please, and they don't have to involve me, so why do they bother? i can think of only one reason they might, and it's in two parts: (1) they're a bunch of griefers, and (2) they know they can grief PvE players there.

it surely can't be because they're afraid of going whitename and having to spend a few hours in catshop mode to get rid of the pink name they'd get. naah, that'd mean having to assume they're cowards as well.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the cube isn't a dodgeball court, though. that analogy would be perfectly apt if you applied it to the dragon temple event, or the PVP arena; but a better analogy for the cube would be a hallway people go through for any number of unrelated reasons, in which some group of people have decided to hold a dodgeball game. and they insist on trying to drag in random passersby into their game, using "don't step into our dodgeball court" as their flimsy-*** excuse.

you wanna PVP, there's any number of places in the game you can go do it. hell, turn whitename and you have the whole of the open map to do it! but you insist on not only doing it in an instance where other people come to do things that have nothing to do with PVP, but then you further insist on PKing them for being there simply because you can PK them there.

This is why I want to remove the ability to hide you you are online. Everything online should require your real name, and address to be posted with everything you do. Watch the harassment stop almost instantly, or watch the people that continue to harass get killed in real life by the people they harassed.b:victory

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I should probably point out... that due to my archer (maybe even sin)'s "questionable" approach toward the game. I have gotten a lot of attention from real life female venos... we're talking about people that I have webcam AND called to confirm. And all of them are actually pretty cute too. That just goes to show you that girls dig bad boys.

Are you seriously going to go on this tangent? Really? XD Do you seriously think a little mindless, superficial webcam attention is worth anything in ANY category of discussion??

I just... I can't even go there. I just can't. It'd be like talking to a twelve-year-old. The sheer scale of pointlessness... XD Oh lord, I need to take a break from this thread now. It's just too hilarious.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, perhaps I was hasty to use the term "encourage" as a description of what the cube actively does. Rather, its allowance of needless PK reinforces the idea that, yes, it's okay to kill other people for no good reason who have no interest in competing with you and, indeed, whose death will not benefit you in any measurable way.

As one person a few pages back put it, let's just call a spade a spade. Cube PKers are, essentially, people who get enjoyment out of ruining that of others. And that is not behavior which should be allowed to flourish. You would not excuse the behavior of a child who harasses his peers in a sandbox by kicking sand into their faces (at least, not if you were a responsible parent). You would not attempt to rationalize that child's behavior with flimsy excuses. You would not attempt to convince the other child's parents that it's their fault for bringing their child into the sandbox to begin with. But such is the rationale of a cube PKer.

Here's one problem: The PK isn't needless. It's obviously another obstacle to overcome. To suggest it's needless is like it's accidental and a bug they should fix. It isn't. Harassment is quite a different thing than killing somebody in the cube and not being nice about it, cannot compare it to physically kicking sand in somebody's face, and those who do sit there and kill like that are rare. However, I can see this has once again degenerated into a psychological evaluation of players who kill in the cube and not something substantiated as to why this instance should be changed completely around. I've not once objected to the idea of taking the chrono quest out of cube as the logic behind the cube and PVE chrono chain being conflicting has merit, however, the big deal that this is being made into by a very few amount of posters, it looks just like their aversion to the cube is being used, along with insane amounts of hyperbole, as an extension of behaviour modification. People are being demonized into bastardly people griefing cuz they love torturing others, and I, of course, being placed into a category incorrectly of killjoys who love to PVP everyone merely because I don't share the sense of exaggerated outrage.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

There's no point in arguing it. Some of you have clearly been scorned by some *** who has no nothing else bette to do than kill people and not bother to check gears or whether that person is AFK.
Don;t assume we are all like that. If I go into one of the Bored rooms and someone is meditiating or sitting dow, I will not engage. Obviously they are AFK or not inclined to fight.
I do not want to kill someone that way 'because I can'. I do like a good fight with someone of comparable level and gears. And honestly, I'm more inclined to meet someone of comparable level and gears to fight in the cube than anywhere else.
Some of us do have etiquette.
But you have all lumped us into one category. As *******s who want to ruin other peoples fun.

It really is pointless to argue tho, the cube is the way it is. It won't change and noone's reading this who could change it, even if they were so inclined to even consider it.
I see it one way, and you see it another. Neither one is going to be convinced of the others point of view. And this topic will degrade into name calling and bickering. Like it already has with the assumption that I, and every cube PKer is automatically an ******* with no consideration for anyone else, simply because you were wronged by someone else. I think there's terms for that.....

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The person who updated me on your position was not part of that faction, nor were they a cleric. And come on, curved paths? Why are you going out of your way to pretend you have a method to the madness? You've already told me flat-out that you will kill anyone for any reason or no reason at all. Don't pretend that our ability to read your mind will dictate your whims.

That by itself will no way justify my actions/decisions. My decision to pk or not to pk can be based on if they have donuts at the break room at work for all that matters. Yesterday the straight path walker gets to live... today maybe the curved path walker gets to live. I like to switch it up to keep it interesting.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You don't go into a dodgeball court to do anything but play dodgeball. This example is more comparable to other instances such as PK tournament, which are not being discussed in this thread because everyone here agrees that some events are built around PK. With the exception of a very few specific rooms, cube is not one of these.

So... everyone agrees that "some events" are built around pk. And yet you are so sure that cube is NOT based on pk. What about the other side of the coin... where cube is based on pk... with some non-pk elements. As you said before... you are willing to accept that dt is based on pk... and yet even dt has certain non-pk elements. Maybe you haven't notice that as the room numbers increase... there is more and more pk enabled rooms. Such as room 1-10... no pk enabled room at all. Room 11-20... only 2 pk enabled room. Room 41-50... kill mob room... kill dog room... 100 second stand room... dig box room. If cube was really ment to be non-pk... one would assume the ratio of pk enabled rooms would stay the same vs non-pk enabled rooms throughout cube.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are you seriously going to go on this tangent? Really? XD Do you seriously think a little mindless, superficial webcam attention is worth anything in ANY category of discussion??

My webcam action is worth as much discussion as any discussion regarding the survival of the non-fit.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

There is at least some evidence that some of the areas in teh cube that are pk enabled are not meant to be.

The reason that corner in room one is pk enabled (and thus there is a known pk glitch in the cube) is because the devs didn't know how to shrink the PK zone down properly so that it only affected the room they wanted it to affect.

Furthermore what purpose does it serve to have a PK challenge room if in fact, the whole thing is a PK challenge?

The overlapping of the chrono quest needed to complete cultivation. There is not a single other instance in game of being required to PK in order to get your PvE cultivations with no reward for the PKer so that it at least makes sense. Not a single one.

We can't know the original developers intent. So to assume that just because it's there, it should be there or whatever makes little sense. Personally, I'd be fine if they changed it so that PK in there is not allowed in rooms 1-38 but anything after that is fair game. Since you would have to start over anyway; there is no longer any culti being blocked from you just because you do not like to PK. Or they could separate it to give some item where you are immune to being pked, and are cannot PK a player yourself. This could come at a cost of say, being automatically teleported to room one after you talk to the 38 npc. Or any npc after that room in case you overshoot it. The point is that there are plenty ways around it.

At any rate, back in the day people didn't really camp cube. Even the ones that did were summarily killed by others because a) the power gap wasn't as wide and b) there was no way to hide from players who were much tougher than you. c) Back in the day it was also much harder to hit 100, so it wasn't as much of an issue since you couldn't even go in there until you were level 40 which back in the day helped prevent you from being a lowbie who was getting farmed. Back in the day that was considered mid-level actually. If you wanted to farm lowbies you ahd to go to SP/Silver Pool. When there is a change in circumstances, it's not uncommon to revist the laws, and thus revisting the rules for cube shouldn't be something that is out of the question.

SashaGray - Heavens Tear

they are pk enabled, therefore without evidence to the contrary, they were meant to be PK enabled. stop crying.

KedgeSniper - Lost City

Tazi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It took me two hours to get to room 47. I don't have a ton of time to devote to running through cube over and over and then when a ****** PK's me b/c he's immature child and makes me go ALL the flippin' way back, I don't find that fair.

I'm in a PVE server for a reason, I do not PK. I am not made of money and cannot afford the "finest" gears or add-ons.

Get rid of PK in CUBE OF FATE, please.

b:chuckle GO PLAY SIMS

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The reason that corner in room one is pk enabled (and thus there is a known pk glitch in the cube) is because the devs didn't know how to shrink the PK zone down properly so that it only affected the room they wanted it to affect.

So... the devs don't know how to correct for the pk zone in room 1 cause they can't properly shrink down the pk zone from the other rooms. Doesn't that mean they intended for the other rooms to be pk enabled.

And for the guy who took 2 hours to get to room 47 only to be killed. I guess you are NOT getting your page for that day.

Ceiba - Sanctuary

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So... the devs don't know how to correct for the pk zone in room 1 cause they can't properly shrink down the pk zone from the other rooms.

I sometimes think that they no longer have access to their own source code for all the old stuff, it would explain how something simple to fix like magic shell bug, has never been fixed. There has to be more to it than meets the eye. Is that or they dont give a damn about fixing anything... Now that I think about it is probably the latter b:laugh

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So... the devs don't know how to correct for the pk zone in room 1 cause they can't properly shrink down the pk zone from the other rooms. Doesn't that mean they intended for the other rooms to be pk enabled.

And for the guy who took 2 hours to get to room 47 only to be killed. I guess you are NOT getting your page for that day.

For all we know they could be talking about the challenge rooms, I'd be interested in seeing which room is which on the map (it's not clearly labeled, just like every other instance map) and what radius the pk zone is enabled surrounding them. At the very least we know of at least one room that has pk enabled that is not supposed to so we cannot say for sure what is and what isn't supposed to be enabled. The original developers are not around to tell us, so we can only structure and make rules around what we have available to us. It could easily be intrepreted either way.

Ceiba - Sanctuary wrote: »

I sometimes think that they no longer have access to their own source code for all the old stuff, it would explain how something simple to fix like magic shell bug, has never been fixed. There has to be more to it than meets the eye. Is that or they dont give a damn about fixing anything... Now that I think about it is probably the latter b:laugh

Same here, look how long it took them to fix those npcs faces and cancel glitching. Look how slow they are to fix the dragoons glitch even though that one is pretty big time. It took them ages to fix rubber banding. So many people used cancel glitching because the game mechanics allowed for it, so it seemed like it was something that was intended. After all when something does or doesn't proc is something that should be intentionally designed that way. I don't think anyone ever got banned for it. I don't think PWI ever made a rule against it. It became a standard part of gameplay and then it was fixed and many were shocked and angry because it was so vague on whether or not it was intentionally designed to work that way or not.

bonbonsmalisia

Get a life you all...

ExMyPrecious - Dreamweaver

bonbonsmalisia wrote: »

Get a life you all...

i smell someone got pked in cube a lot b:victoryb:laugh

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Ceiba - Sanctuary wrote: »

I sometimes think that they no longer have access to their own source code for all the old stuff, it would explain how something simple to fix like magic shell bug, has never been fixed. There has to be more to it than meets the eye. Is that or they dont give a damn about fixing anything... Now that I think about it is probably the latter b:laugh

This has long been iterated. At first I thought this was the case, then ignored it when rubber banding seemed fix a year and a half ago, but then came back up.

I agree though. No new money deserves to go to old clunky coding that adds fluff on top with no substance evolving the original content.

Simi_P - Dreamweaver

Ok I honestly didn't bother reading the whole thread (33+ pages); but I agree 100% with the OP - except for the rooms where the whole point is killing someone to get through them; you should not be able to randomly PK people in the Cube.

I too, am on a PvE server for a reason; I go in the Cube for the experience and the Pages of Fate; not so random you know whats can get their kicks by killing people who are there minding their own business. I do not like to PvP, which is why I made sure when I started playing this game that I chose a PvE server, because I thought that I wouldn't have to worry about that.

In my opinion, people who randomly PK other people who aren't even in PK mode are immature and rude; they remind me of a bunch of school yard bullies who always pick on the weakest kids, because they can't actually beat up on people their own size:) NOTE: Just because you can; doesn't mean you should.

KedgeSniper - Lost City

Simi_P - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ok I honestly didn't bother reading the whole thread (33+ pages); but I agree 100% with the OP - except for the rooms where the whole point is killing someone to get through them; you should not be able to randomly PK people in the Cube.

I too, am on a PvE server for a reason; I go in the Cube for the experience and the Pages of Fate; not so random you know whats can get their kicks by killing people who are there minding their own business. I do not like to PvP, which is why I made sure when I started playing this game that I chose a PvE server, because I thought that I wouldn't have to worry about that.

In my opinion, people who randomly PK other people who aren't even in PK mode are immature and rude; they remind me of a bunch of school yard bullies who always pick on the weakest kids, because they can't actually beat up on people their own size:) NOTE: Just because you can; doesn't mean you should.

Go play sims too, Another lv 100 blue name.

bonbonsmalisia

ExMyPrecious - Dreamweaver wrote: »

i smell someone got pked in cube a lot b:victoryb:laugh

ya kill count on archer over 2k and got pk-ed a lot, only an aps hyper sin could say it, and ya ur from dreamweaver, the biggest spawn place of jerks

MAYBE im just not as pathetic as u are and acually have a life so i dont bother with useless conversations like this? arguing about fc leveling about cube about life about sins about eveyrthing GO OUT and stop making ur life even more miserable, if u dont like the game LEAVE IT

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

bonbonsmalisia wrote: »

ya kill count on archer over 2k and got pk-ed a lot, only an aps hyper sin could say it, and ya ur from dreamweaver, the biggest spawn place of jerks

MAYBE im just not as pathetic as u are and acually have a life so i dont bother with useless conversations like this? arguing about fc leveling about cube about life about sins about eveyrthing GO OUT and stop making ur life even more miserable, if u dont like the game LEAVE IT

I don't see anyone in this thread talking about quitting the game, demanding the game return to its original state or declaring that its dead and nitpicking every part of it. This is the general discussion, where you know you discuss the state of the game. Perhaps rally for changes in old rules, perhaps report glitches, perhaps petition for a change in a class because it's viewed as over powered, perhaps give a compliment to the game, etc, etc. I don't think anyone here would go to the extreme that their entire life is miserable because of this game. Meh, your opinion I guess.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

There's no point in arguing it. Some of you have clearly been scorned by some *** who has no nothing else bette to do than kill people and not bother to check gears or whether that person is AFK.
Don;t assume we are all like that. If I go into one of the Bored rooms and someone is meditiating or sitting dow, I will not engage. Obviously they are AFK or not inclined to fight.
I do not want to kill someone that way 'because I can'. I do like a good fight with someone of comparable level and gears. And honestly, I'm more inclined to meet someone of comparable level and gears to fight in the cube than anywhere else.
Some of us do have etiquette.
But you have all lumped us into one category. As *******s who want to ruin other peoples fun.

It really is pointless to argue tho, the cube is the way it is. It won't change and noone's reading this who could change it, even if they were so inclined to even consider it.
I see it one way, and you see it another. Neither one is going to be convinced of the others point of view. And this topic will degrade into name calling and bickering. Like it already has with the assumption that I, and every cube PKer is automatically an ******* with no consideration for anyone else, simply because you were wronged by someone else. I think there's terms for that.....

You would be making a lot of well-deserved points here if it weren't for the fact that I have never demonized PK in general, never have, and never will. I most certainly do not lump everyone in one category. To do so would be ignorant and shortsighted, at best.

Quite frankly, people like you are the only reason our PVP system still has a purpose and a useful life. You, from the part I boldfaced, appear to be a person who understands and appreciates what a good, fair fight is. A sense of honor in PVP is a rarity in this day and age.

And of course, the larger problem is how the PVP system in general has been warped and degraded by broken addition after broken addition (pack gear, sins, eternal jones blessings, r8, r9, 5aps... the list goes on). But we can rant about the devs' and PWE's mishandling of the system forever and ever. I think objectively speaking, we don't need PK rooms that serve no purpose but to channel this broken system through the whims of a few egotistical kids.

A fair fight can always still happen. Suppose cube were changed so that it operates just like the overworld - no SZs, but no forced PK either. Whitenamed PK would become the norm for people who want to opt-in to it. A good duel here or there would be welcomed (hey, there's something you can do to pass the time in room 11/32, right?). Hence people like you would still get what you wanted out of the system.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Here's one problem: The PK isn't needless. It's obviously another obstacle to overcome. To suggest it's needless is like it's accidental and a bug they should fix. It isn't. Harassment is quite a different thing than killing somebody in the cube and not being nice about it, cannot compare it to physically kicking sand in somebody's face, and those who do sit there and kill like that are rare. However, I can see this has once again degenerated into a psychological evaluation of players who kill in the cube and not something substantiated as to why this instance should be changed completely around. I've not once objected to the idea of taking the chrono quest out of cube as the logic behind the cube and PVE chrono chain being conflicting has merit, however, the big deal that this is being made into by a very few amount of posters, it looks just like their aversion to the cube is being used, along with insane amounts of hyperbole, as an extension of behaviour modification. People are being demonized into bastardly people griefing cuz they love torturing others, and I, of course, being placed into a category incorrectly of killjoys who love to PVP everyone merely because I don't share the sense of exaggerated outrage.

Not by me. You'll notice I never challenged your claim of not being a cube PKer. And that's because I take you at your word for it - why shouldn't I? What do I have to gain from being paranoid? What do you have to gain by lying about it?

You can't just write off any possible argument because there's a bit of psychoanalysis behind it. Few people go into a debate without some amount of logic backing up their conclusions. In the case of my argument, the logic is very simple... until we reach the point where logic can't possibly explain the problem anymore.
Fact 1. Cube is partially PK enabled.
Fact 2. Except in the case of 14/34, cube does not measurably benefit the PKer.
Fact 3. People engage in unsolicited PK in all PK-enabled rooms despite Fact 2.

Usually we use facts and logic to arrive at a solid conclusion. Yet these facts present us with a quandary that logic alone can't answer. Why, indeed, do these people see fit to engage in unsolicited PK of innocents? In the end, there is just as much a lack of logic in support of such PK, as there is in any argument with psychoanalysis in it. If we were operating off of 100% logic, cube PKers would've been relegated to the loony bin by the proverbial robot-police years ago. >_>

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That by itself will no way justify my actions/decisions. My decision to pk or not to pk can be based on if they have donuts at the break room at work for all that matters. Yesterday the straight path walker gets to live... today maybe the curved path walker gets to live. I like to switch it up to keep it interesting.

Exactly, which leads me to wonder why you brought up that useless anecdotal story about the "cleric with balls" or whatever. We've established that there's no method to your particular brand of madness. And while it's amusing to see you try to make one up every few pages, one must eventually wonder why a person doesn't quit while they're ahead. o.o

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So... everyone agrees that "some events" are built around pk. And yet you are so sure that cube is NOT based on pk. What about the other side of the coin... where cube is based on pk... with some non-pk elements. As you said before... you are willing to accept that dt is based on pk... and yet even dt has certain non-pk elements. Maybe you haven't notice that as the room numbers increase... there is more and more pk enabled rooms. Such as room 1-10... no pk enabled room at all. Room 11-20... only 2 pk enabled room. Room 41-50... kill mob room... kill dog room... 100 second stand room... dig box room. If cube was really ment to be non-pk... one would assume the ratio of pk enabled rooms would stay the same vs non-pk enabled rooms throughout cube.

Not the point. If I wanted to rant about what the devs "meant" or "didn't mean," we'd be arguing over 5aps, not cube. XD

Again - the difference between cube and DT is that PK is central to the experience of one and not the other, and that that one's rewards are very closely (in fact, everything short of directly) tied to the PK. I'll occasionally take my sin into DT to farm Endurance badges, but y'know? Eventually someone's gonna spot me, and the result of that encounter is - in most cases - that I'll have dug only 3 or 4 chests when I could've dug more had I not been PK'd. And that's fine - that chest I was working on is gonna be dug by somebody, so a rule of "who gets to dig it" must apply. And in general, that rule is PK. I go in expecting this.

That is a direct, measurable consequence of PK. Cube has no such thing, except for 14/34. And in the absence of a good reason for PKing, most people don't PK. Except, of course, for a good sporting fight between two people who honestly want to test their skills against each other (like Ikarium mentioned). But the fearful cleric running at you with Plume Shell or the guy minding his own business in the corner of room 11 are not that.

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My webcam action is worth as much discussion as any discussion regarding the survival of the non-fit.

Well, you keep telling yourself that while you record "mygirlfriend.mpg" over there. The rest of us will be over here in the real world when you'd like to join us.

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'd be interested in seeing which room is which on the map (it's not clearly labeled, just like every other instance map) and what radius the pk zone is enabled surrounding them.

Actually, that information is stored in a standard text file in the "element/maps" directory.

Cube of Fate is map "a32", and the room names and shapes are stored in the "precinct.clt" file.

There are two entries for "Fate's Beginning", one of which you can see by the coordinates is defined as a giant square, and the other one a tiny irregularly shaped area, which is clearly the initial starting zone in the corner.

Of course, modifying these files would get you banned, and probably it would just mess up the notifications you get when you enter each new area, since the server would certainly maintain it's own versions of these files in order to check for more critical things like PK on/off.

But probably the server files are similar to the client files, and if so then editing the PK zones is something that would be pretty straight-forward to do.

Noel - Dreamweaver

Tazi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There is plenty of reason for me to go in there. And as I said above, I AM on a PvE and I do NOT pk. So, yes, I'm going to "CRY CRY" about it b/c I'm in a PvE server for a REASON.

Actually, QQ don't mean "Cry Cry", the term originated from a gaming program from another company that lets you press ALT+Q+Q to immediately exit the match and program. Thus the term "QQ" was to tell people to just quit because they are unskilled.

Yes, trolls around here like to imply that people that complain are unskilled. b:bye

Miugre - Heavens Tear

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

Actually, that information is stored in a standard text file in the "element/maps" directory.

Cube of Fate is map "a32", and the room names and shapes are stored in the "precinct.clt" file.

There are two entries for "Fate's Beginning", one of which you can see by the coordinates is defined as a giant square, and the other one a tiny irregularly shaped area, which is clearly the initial starting zone in the corner.

Of course, modifying these files would get you banned, and probably it would just mess up the notifications you get when you enter each new area, since the server would certainly maintain it's own versions of these files in order to check for more critical things like PK on/off.

But probably the server files are similar to the client files, and if so then editing the PK zones is something that would be pretty straight-forward to do.

Interesting. Though for my money, I don't see why they can't just set it all to overworld-style. Meaning, nothing is a SZ, but nothing is forced PK either. That way whitenames can have their fun, and the rest of us can do our runs in peace. Of course, you may still have to have 14/34 on "the other map," which is something that might be beyond the capacity of our current devs. >_>

So failing that, yeah - if they can just change a few values in the precinct file and get it done, maybe that's what should be pushed for here...

Noel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually, QQ don't mean "Cry Cry", the term originated from a gaming program from another company that lets you press ALT+Q+Q to immediately exit the match and program. Thus the term "QQ" was to tell people to just quit because they are unskilled.

Yes, trolls around here like to imply that people that complain are unskilled. b:bye

I will admit that I didn't know that, either. I learned two things today! o.o

But you have to admit, it really has taken on a life of its own outside its original purpose, hasn't it? Much like a lot of internet slang and emotes. :P

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Again - the difference between cube and DT is that PK is central to the experience of one and not the other, and that that one's rewards are very closely (in fact, everything short of directly) tied to the PK. I'll occasionally take my sin into DT to farm Endurance badges, but y'know? Eventually someone's gonna spot me, and the result of that encounter is - in most cases - that I'll have dug only 3 or 4 chests when I could've dug more had I not been PK'd. And that's fine - that chest I was working on is gonna be dug by somebody, so a rule of "who gets to dig it" must apply. And in general, that rule is PK. I go in expecting this.

That is a direct, measurable consequence of PK. Cube has no such thing, except for 14/34. And in the absence of a good reason for PKing, most people don't PK. Except, of course, for a good sporting fight between two people who honestly want to test their skills against each other (like Ikarium mentioned). But the fearful cleric running at you with Plume Shell or the guy minding his own business in the corner of room 11 are not that.

See... I am not sure you understand the whole concept of protecting others... or you just don't have the ability to do so. I don't freaking go in to dt to dug for chests that only sells for a dime worth of coins. I even leave chests untouched when I leave. Any 1 person that I kill in cube is 1 less person my cube-mates have to deal with. And any 1 person I kill in dt is 1 person that my squad mates have to deal with. Sure... you can argue that they'll only come back in a few minutes. Well... all the freaking chests would be gone in a few minutes... or my cube mates would have already finished.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, you keep telling yourself that while you record "mygirlfriend.mpg" over there. The rest of us will be over here in the real world when you'd like to join us.

Yes... such a nice real life that you have. Hence you are still here arguing over something that more then likely was the intention of the original dev.