Cube Should Not Be Pk Enabled!!!!

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Culti is short for "cultivation". All FBs are there for is to finish the quest (culti quest to kill the boss(s), and advance your cultivation level. While, they might not be trully "culti" by the word, I have always considered them a needed advancement via cultivation to my characters.

Well, what *you* have always considered to be a needed advancement to your characters is *not* needed to even attain new skills or anything progressive. FB 29 can be skipped with no loss, the tab NPCed if you want. The culti quest finishes at 29 before you get the Call To Duty quest. So then, here you are explaining how you find something that is unnecessary for progress to be essential to your gameplay, and those of us that think it is essential to finish our level 100 culti are wrong? We want to complete something that unlocks new skills for our character and completes a long storyline. You just want to use a tab.

You can be +12 R9 and +12 5aps while still not unlocking the first OHT map, or killing any of the original bosses from the Wraith's Ploy quest chain.

Your goals are not the same as everyone else's. I have no need or want to attain +12 anything, let alone rank 9. I would rather be able to finish my cultivation.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, what *you* have always considered to be a needed advancement to your characters is *not* needed to even attain new skills or anything progressive. FB 29 can be skipped with no loss, the tab NPCed if you want. The culti quest finishes at 29 before you get the Call To Duty quest. So then, here you are explaining how you find something that is unnecessary for progress to be essential to your gameplay, and those of us that think it is essential to finish our level 100 culti are wrong? We want to complete something that unlocks new skills for our character and completes a long storyline. You just want to use a tab.

Your goals are not the same as everyone else's. I have no need or want to attain +12 anything, let alone rank 9. I would rather be able to finish my cultivation.

All this time you're complaining about chrono room 38 you can be doing it right now. However, I believe that either 1) you've already done it or 2) you weren't going to anyway.

Let's get back to your personal goals. I've done cube room 38 six times as a quest (bm, cleric, veno, wiz, archer, sin) and strangely I've never had any issue. Three of them I did well before I was 100. You're pretending that you cannot do your chrono quest (or what you confuse as your cultivation) just because PK is enabled in a handful of rooms, when in fact you can, and likely have, just want to fruitlessly whine about it. Furthermore, since you want to play the charade of "woes me quester", you wish to change the quest for everybody else, just because of your own personal objections to it, which is quite selfish as it disregards everyone else's feelings -- not that this whining will change the cube anyways. Maybe you should just submit a ticket for it and explain your objections, maybe they'll complete the quest you've likely already done so you can move on.

Oh look, yet another page. b:cute

didi

What I like about cube is that its different from other dungeon but I think the pvp rules and the 100 chest rule is ridiculous and thats for pvp players as well as pve players.

If i'm not wrong, most people don't take part in pvp in cube, and when people do, they gain nothing from it while the pk-ed can lose alot of time. The chest room is even worst... Have to open 100 chest becasue the person ahead of you felt like being a jerk?...

While I don't see the rules getting change, as it cost money, I believe there are valuable lesson to learn from this thread though. If mistakes such as cube is not learned, then history may repeat itself. Guild base could turn out unsatifactory for too many with participation rate lower then desire and pwi will earn less money from it indirectly.

If I was able to change the rules for cube. I would give people a choice to pick pve only or pvp included run. If pve run is picked, then you get less reward from the run. If you pick pvp run, you get a chance for greater reward.

Its important to allow people to express them selve as much energy is behind that, and people should have a choice. The pvp run could also increase pvp participation rate, which is good for many players and this may also be a good thing for pwi too indirectly.

The reasoning behind that is this. Allow people to express themself, and to give them a choice. People who are willing to take things further should be allowed and be rewarded for it. That means if you willing to pvp, you can either save time or have higher chance for goods or better goods.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Why should the PVP option on a PVE server have greater reward?
Should quests you get to kill mobs give more XP if you turn on PK?

The cube should obey white names / blue names except for rooms like 34/14.

didi

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Why should the PVP option on a PVE server have greater reward?
Should quests you get to kill mobs give more XP if you turn on PK?

The cube should obey white names / blue names except for rooms like 34/14.
.

Because pvp people exist and they willing to do more. I haven't taken part in pvp except for 3 tw, but I don't think its fair to hold them back or denying them to pvp.

The point I was trying to make is that, everyone should be able to get from start to finish, whether you pve or pvp. We shouldn't have to take the same path, and we should get a choice. Extra reward are for those who are willing to do more or take things further. Pvp is just an example in this case.

Rewards for being pve should also exist too but differently. Rewarding Guilds as an example by promoting social bonding and increasing guild activity etc.

Generally speaking everyone get something, which includes pwi for making money from it, directly or indirectly.

Kitkate - Dreamweaver

The only room that I care about that shouldn't be pk enabled is room 1, which is bannable to kill people in. (I've ran into newbs who didn't know that even though its on the first page when you log in.) Honestly they should just fix it so you can't at all because there are some aholes who just sit in room 1 and wait on people who are blue named to port into the cube to kill them. It's fun to report the little *****. =D

I've never had any interest in doing the cube, except to level up a few pets that have fallen behind on my veno in room 4 and I don't have the time to level them like I normally do on regular mobs. Or i just use it as a free teleport to arch instead of paying the 3k every time which is nice on my lower level characters.

I can understand on the PvE server that being a pain though. I don't pk much. Only if I happen to see someone I hate in pk mode or if I help faction members learn how to take down a certain class. So I'm mostly a PvE player. =P

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

didi wrote: »

Because pvp people exist and they willing to do more. I haven't taken part in pvp except for 3 tw, but I don't think its fair to hold them back or denying them to pvp.

it's perfectly fair to deny them PvP'ing AGAINST PvE PLAYERS.

"not fair" is to allow the PvP'ers to kill PvE players who didn't deliberately go whitename.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

it's perfectly fair to deny them PvP'ing AGAINST PvE PLAYERS.

"not fair" is to allow the PvP'ers to kill PvE players who didn't deliberately go whitename.

Doing cube is essentially going whitename, minus the whole losing drops thing. Don't know how much more clear that needs to be. Cube is not a pure PVE instance. If this concept is not what you agree with, here's a very easy solution -- don't start the cube.

OIdpop - Heavens Tear

after room 38 was done..whocares about the fail cube it sucks.Maybe back in the day when exp was harder to aquire..but now....dumb as hell.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

The cube should obey white names / blue names except for rooms like 34/14.

This, no one is arguing that the cube should be changed because they have a crusade against PvP players. They are saying that both play styles should be respected and that both play styles should be allowed to complete their characters.

didi

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

it's perfectly fair to deny them PvP'ing AGAINST PvE PLAYERS.

"not fair" is to allow the PvP'ers to kill PvE players who didn't deliberately go whitename.

I agree that first and for most, that pve players to a great extent should not be forced into pvp in most or all of cube. Howerver, its important to recognise that there are 3 recognisable group in a pve server, namely pve, pvp and pwi.

Imo, if one of these group is not catered for, another group will suffer directly or indirectly. For example, if pve group are discourage from participating in guild base, pwi will not maximise their profit.

What they may do then is to allocate their time from coming up with pve content and focuse their time on milking pvp players for more money. They wont spend all the extra time on coming up with more pvp content because theres a limit to how much pvp content they can come up with over a given period of time. The end result? pvp players may have to pay more for too little increase in pvp content when a better outcome is for pwi to spend their time in coming up with pve content and making money off them.

Imo, 5aps was unnecessary for pwi to increase sell of packs. Its liken to selling of assets to increase demand for packs therefore it was an expensive way for them.

Guild base is an opportunity to increase sell of packs, as well as coming up with pve and pvp content, so that all 3 groups are satified. Imo, all 3 of these group can be satified at the same time, but pwi needs players input. Cube may be a good starting point as its a simple instance in trying understand the 3 said groups including what is an agreeable right and wrong.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

didi wrote: »

Howerver, its important to recognise that there are 1 recognisable group in a pve server, namely pwi.

b:laugh

How many years (launch ?) was this glitch already there... i forgot. If not wrong cn version also never fixed..

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Doing cube is essentially going whitename, [...] Cube is not a pure PVE instance.

there is NO REASON why that should have to be so, and it serves no good purpose in the game. it does not improve the game in any way, shape or form; rather it makes the game worse.

If this concept is not what you agree with, here's a very easy solution -- don't start the cube.

you might as well tell me to not start the game client at all. that too would sidestep the problem; after all, i don't HAVE to spend my free time on ANY part of PWI.

so long as i do still choose to waste my time on this game, i'd appreciate if its design decisions made some minimal amount of sense, however. having the cube be all-pvp makes. no. effing. sense. now maybe YOU enjoy playing calvinball, but some of us prefer more structured pastimes.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

@didi, in general your ideas make sense, but are ultimately thwarted by the current devs' incompetence...

didi wrote: »

What they may do then is to allocate their time from coming up with pve content and focuse their time on milking pvp players for more money. They wont spend all the extra time on coming up with more pvp content because theres a limit to how much pvp content they can come up with over a given period of time. The end result? pvp players may have to pay more for too little increase in pvp content when a better outcome is for pwi to spend their time in coming up with pve content and making money off them.

This is entirely true. I mean, just LOOK at the "content" we have to look forward to at endgame. We have a fabulous choice of OP gear set #1 (r8), OP gear set #2 (Nirvana), or OP gear set #3 (r9) if you're REALLY feeling the burn of "not being able to oneshot everybody and their mother." -_-

Problem is, actual new content requires good devs, devs who can increase the level cap and expand the map for purposes other than "recruit a new wave of walking wallets whom we push out of their starter zone in an hour with a sack full of hypers, lest we lose their pathetically-short attention spans." >_>

didi wrote: »

Imo, 5aps was unnecessary for pwi to increase sell of packs. Its liken to selling of assets to increase demand for packs therefore it was an expensive way for them.

You make it sound like 5aps was deliberate. 5aps was a coding oversight. The original devs probably didn't even test what APS would be like with the kind of gear we have today. It was everything short of impossible to acquire that gear when PWI came out.

didi wrote: »

Guild base is an opportunity to increase sell of packs, as well as coming up with pve and pvp content, so that all 3 groups are satified. Imo, all 3 of these group can be satified at the same time, but pwi needs players input. Cube may be a good starting point as its a simple instance in trying understand the 3 said groups including what is an agreeable right and wrong.

No smart faction would currently spend the money required to buy a base, because it currently serves no purpose except for a few buffs and maybe a few gears which are, realistically, impossible to obtain. The base's only other selling point is the short-scale PVP wars, but from what I've heard those aren't even implemented yet. And when they are, they'll be forced upon anyone else with a base, with no opt-out option, and with a sizeable chance of losing the base entirely.

In short, guild base is/was another great idea with lots of potential that, sadly, tripped over the first hurdle and broke both its legs. >_>

(Happy Monday everyone :P)

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

there is NO REASON why that should have to be so, and it serves no good purpose in the game. it does not improve the game in any way, shape or form; rather it makes the game worse.

That's your subjective opinion, and nothing more. If the cube were like every other pure PVE instance, like TW, like any other instance where players can attack other players, it wouldn't be cube. It would be LenieClarke's arena of boredom.

you might as well tell me to not start the game client at all. that too would sidestep the problem; after all, i don't HAVE to spend my free time on ANY part of PWI.

Hyperbole much?

so long as i do still choose to waste my time on this game, i'd appreciate if its design decisions made some minimal amount of sense, however. having the cube be all-pvp makes. no. effing. sense. now maybe YOU enjoy playing calvinball, but some of us prefer more structured pastimes.[/color]

Not every room in the cube has it to where you can kill other players. Obviously you've never done cube. As I've said before I am quite a carebear and dislike PK, but I don't sit there and cry about some rooms in cube being PK enabled just because of a select few's attitude. You have this "take my ball and go home" attitude, exemplified in your one extreme or the other rationale. Cube is not some melee free for all PK instance that doesn't allow you to do your quests. You seem to also take the cube as if it's some quest-based instance like an FB dungeon when it isn't. It's an instance with random rooms where challenges in it vary wildly. Throughout that instance you stand a far better chance dying to mobs or dying failing to do a quest correctly than being PK'd, even in the actual PK rooms if you have DA's. So yeah, given your stance and your lack of cube knowledge, I would just suggest staying away from the cube. Not every instance is for every person, clearly the cube isn't for you -- and it doesn't have to be.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is entirely true. I mean, just LOOK at the "content" we have to look forward to at endgame. We have a fabulous choice of OP gear set #1 (r8), OP gear set #2 (Nirvana), or OP gear set #3 (r9) if you're REALLY feeling the burn of "not being able to oneshot everybody and their mother." -_-

Chrono maps have it so you can farm purple or gold pieces of gear (two of them come in the gold form of Helm of Holy Punishment/Heavenrage Boots through packs), so that takes are of boots, helmet, cape, from those quests. Most people still use TT99, easily farmable, or you can go the route of chipping golds. Then, it's getting more popular to get lunar gear, whether it be a veno using stat-heavy lunar armour to help appropriate attributes for a HA/AA build, or the hat, or the legs, pre-Nirvana. It's not like there isn't any content. There's just no new content being built, and given how readily they put gear via cash shop, a big no-no as far as MMO's are concerned, it's clear this is a cash shop based game, whereby to get gear even the F2P players use the cash shop ignoring 95%+ of the game's content.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

All this time you're complaining about chrono room 38 you can be doing it right now. However, I believe that either 1) you've already done it or 2) you weren't going to anyway.

Let's get back to your personal goals. I've done cube room 38 six times as a quest (bm, cleric, veno, wiz, archer, sin) and strangely I've never had any issue. Three of them I did well before I was 100. You're pretending that you cannot do your chrono quest (or what you confuse as your cultivation) just because PK is enabled in a handful of rooms, when in fact you can, and likely have, just want to fruitlessly whine about it. Furthermore, since you want to play the charade of "woes me quester", you wish to change the quest for everybody else, just because of your own personal objections to it, which is quite selfish as it disregards everyone else's feelings -- not that this whining will change the cube anyways. Maybe you should just submit a ticket for it and explain your objections, maybe they'll complete the quest you've likely already done so you can move on.

Oh look, yet another page. b:cute

If you had actually read my previous posts, you would have seen that I stated more than once that my archer will need room 38 very soon. And I would like to do it since, as I also stated, I am interested in one of the level 100 skills for her. Read before posting assumptions.

As to the fact that *you* have never had any issue, wow! Good for you! No bearing on my case. As I also previously wrote, I made a couple of Cube attempts recently to see if it was any better and was pked several times, so quit again. And I never once referred to it as cultivation. I said I needed to get it done to complete my culti, which is absolutely true.

I managed room 38 on this char with no problem back when fewer people ran Cube and there was little to no pking. Things have changed since then, especially with assassins. When my cleric ran it, it took me two weeks to finish because of all the pking (even pked in room 38). I quit entirely after that because it stresses me out, and no *game* should be stressful. But when this char used to run it without all the pking, I enjoyed it and it was still a challenge.

If they would just remove the chrono quest from Cube I would be happy. I don't care how many of you want to be jerks and wreck people's days in there; I just don't want to be forced into PvP to get my skills.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's your subjective opinion, and nothing more. If the cube were like every other pure PVE instance, like TW, like any other instance where players can attack other players, it wouldn't be cube. It would be LenieClarke's arena of boredom.

YOU may find PvE that very boring.

(what, you never bother to take your character out of the game's various enforced-PvP areas, except to traverse it to some other one? you're in constant whitename to stave off the boredom of not being attackable? i should recommend you reroll on a PvP server!)

but other people are not all like you, and we could find challenge and entertainment in a PvE-only cube. when passing judgment on other people's pastimes, do not assume that YOUR interests are the measuring stick of the world.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't sit there and cry about some rooms in cube being PK enabled just because of a select few's attitude.

And yet, here you defend that same attitude being encouraged, via maintenance of the status quo. Is that not tacit approval of griefing, then?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Chrono maps have it so you can farm purple or gold pieces of gear (two of them come in the gold form of Helm of Holy Punishment/Heavenrage Boots through packs), so that takes are of boots, helmet, cape, from those quests. Most people still use TT99, easily farmable, or you can go the route of chipping golds. Then, it's getting more popular to get lunar gear, whether it be a veno using stat-heavy lunar armour to help appropriate attributes for a HA/AA build, or the hat, or the legs, pre-Nirvana. It's not like there isn't any content. There's just no new content being built, and given how readily they put gear via cash shop, a big no-no as far as MMO's are concerned, it's clear this is a cash shop based game, whereby to get gear even the F2P players use the cash shop ignoring 95%+ of the game's content.

Of course, there are still a lot of things obtainable in the current endgame that aren't OP. But that's not what you hear on the forums these days. What you hear on the forums is "get to 100 in a month and buy rank 8 or you're not a factor." And then in the same breath, you'll hear "nobody does [TT / Lunar / Rebirth / OHT / etc.] anymore."

But you kinda missed my point there - it's not so much about what's obtainable now, as what would be obtainable if they lifted the level cap. I mean, they already have NPC and mold gear for levels far higher than what the current game allows... it's all coded into the game already. But none of it is used, and at this point, it's unlikely to ever see the light of day.

Because look at what we have already! Rank 9 gear alone could probably carry a player up to lv150 for PVE purposes. How are they going to release new instances and new gear for a higher level cap, without obliterating what little stability the PVP system has left?

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

I would just like to point out that my first time cubing in over a year. I purposely let a mystic live... and guess what happened? She attacked me and stunned me when i was within the green hand circle (it was the non bug hands room). Good thing stun weared off and I one shoted her. Then I proceed to one shot another mystic in room 46... and 2 shot a sin in room 47. That is all.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

do not assume that YOUR interests are the measuring stick of the world.

<.<
Removing PvP content from cube because you don't like it? Sounds like your measuring stick ended there. And you wish to have it end there for all of us.
Not being able to do your room38 quest because of PvP is laughable. The cube is not over crowded with people (on DW anyway). The amount of people who do PvP in there is very low, and considering only half (or around there) of the rooms are even PK-enabled...the argument seems weak at best. If you can't do this quest becuase of this, either you have the worst luck ever, or have made so many enemies that you can't go anywhere in a PvP enabled instance without getting attacked. I don't see any other reason. Honestly I have gone AFK for the entire duration of the "Bored" rooms and have gone AFK in other various PvP rooms and come back and still be alive.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And yet, here you defend that same attitude being encouraged, via maintenance of the status quo. Is that not tacit approval of griefing, then?

I don't disagree with griefing being against the rules, because it is. However, people's attitude for killing is their own reasons. It has no place in a discussion of whether or not to revoke a PK enabled instance from being so on PVE servers, just because people might not be nice about it.

Of course, there are still a lot of things obtainable in the current endgame that aren't OP. But that's not what you hear on the forums these days. What you hear on the forums is "get to 100 in a month and buy rank 8 or you're not a factor." And then in the same breath, you'll hear "nobody does [TT / Lunar / Rebirth / OHT / etc.] anymore."

But you kinda missed my point there - it's not so much about what's obtainable now, as what would be obtainable if they lifted the level cap. I mean, they already have NPC and mold gear for levels far higher than what the current game allows... it's all coded into the game already. But none of it is used, and at this point, it's unlikely to ever see the light of day.

Because look at what we have already! Rank 9 gear alone could probably carry a player up to lv150 for PVE purposes. How are they going to release new instances and new gear for a higher level cap, without obliterating what little stability the PVP system has left?

I'm in doubt they'd raise the level cap due to already using the FB109 instance level designs for two other prominent instances high levels do. As for factors, maybe for PVP, but PVE-wise, gear doesn't matter that much. It does cost a pretty penny to obtain the DPS needed for soloing certain things as a sin or bm or barb, but for PVE, r9 is overkill.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I would just like to point out that my first time cubing in over a year. I purposely let a mystic live... and guess what happened? She attacked me and stunned me when i was within the green hand circle (it was the non bug hands room). Good thing stun weared off and I one shoted her. Then I proceed to one shot another mystic in room 46... and 2 shot a sin in room 47. That is all.

Yeah, I know. I saw you in room 6, remember? ;[

Then I ended up in room 10, immediately bound for room 11, and thought I'd better give the main a break and try to take my sin through cube instead. I thought it prudent to put out a PSA in my sin's faction as I know several of its members do the cube (and, indeed, have posted in this thread). ;] Sadly, my sin got up to room 12 but then got the Life mark to go ahead to room 16. I was told immediately after (from my main's faction) that you had just been spotted exiting room 11. :-/

Rep is a bad thing, man. :P But you wouldn't have to keep that vicious cycle going if the cube weren't PK-enabled.

Oh and btw? 46 isn't PK enabled. >_>

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

YOU may find PvE that very boring.

(what, you never bother to take your character out of the game's various enforced-PvP areas, except to traverse it to some other one? you're in constant whitename to stave off the boredom of not being attackable? i should recommend you reroll on a PvP server!)

but other people are not all like you, and we could find challenge and entertainment in a PvE-only cube. when passing judgment on other people's pastimes, do not assume that YOUR interests are the measuring stick of the world.

Earth to LenieClarke, you're the one who wants to change an entire instance to fit your views of PVE. This isn't a case of Janus being egocentric, this is definitely LenieClarke. In fact I'm suggesting my world views don't matter, just like yours don't, because I'm not trying to impose my views upon others to change something that's been in place since god knows how long. PVE isn't annihilated just because your chrono quest requires you talk to an NPC at the back of cube room 38 before your chrono rebirth to open moonshade. This is just an embellishment made to make a rather silly point.

As for the PVP and whitename thing, you should really pay attention to what you read, because I've iterated for the umpteenth time I don't PVP, nor have I ever whitenamed. Would benefit you to comprehend this before telling me to reroll on a server that doesn't benefit my style of play.

Miugre - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Earth to LenieClarke, you're the one who wants to change an entire instance to fit your views of PVE. This isn't a case of Janus being egocentric, this is definitely LenieClarke. In fact I'm suggesting my world views don't matter, just like yours don't, because I'm not trying to impose my views upon others to change something that's been in place since god knows how long.

That's an awfully optimistic world view you've got there. So nobody's opinion matters and nothing ever changes? XD So why are you here, then?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I don't disagree with griefing being against the rules, because it is. However, people's attitude for killing is their own reasons. It has no place in a discussion of whether or not to revoke a PK enabled instance from being so on PVE servers, just because people might not be nice about it.

If that attitude essentially is griefing, and the state of the instance encourages that attitude, then yes, it does have a place in the discussion.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm in doubt they'd raise the level cap due to already using the FB109 instance level designs for two other prominent instances high levels do. As for factors, maybe for PVP, but PVE-wise, gear doesn't matter that much. It does cost a pretty penny to obtain the DPS needed for soloing certain things as a sin or bm or barb, but for PVE, r9 is overkill.

I've only been saying that stuff for at least a year and a half now. >_>

We're in agreement on that. To say the new devs shot themselves in the foot would not begin to do the situation justice.

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear

Ikarium - Dreamweaver wrote: »

<.<
Removing PvP content from cube because you don't like it? Sounds like your measuring stick ended there.

you haven't apparently read a single one of the many, many posts where many people (myself included) have explained what the rest of the measuring stick looks like, and you want to be taken seriously?

my preference is the least of the reasons the cube should be changed; but my preference is nevertheless at least as weighty as the preferences of those who would have it remain unchanged just because they like it the way it is. some of the smarter people on the opposite side of this argument have put forth more objective, less arbitrary reasons not to change the cube --- still insufficient reasons, mind you, but nevertheless better ones than merely "because i like it" --- yet i do not see you even trying to.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

[lots of ego-stroking of Janus' deleted for space] I'm not trying to impose my views upon others to change something that's been in place since god knows how long.

you may recall me mentioning i'm not the sort of person who's impressed with a rule merely because it is a rule? yeah, no, not impressed with something merely because it's old, either. a stupid design decision that's been in place a long time is merely a really old mistake.

As for the PVP and whitename thing, you should really pay attention to what you read, because I've iterated for the umpteenth time I don't PVP, nor have I ever whitenamed.

then you need not spout obvious silly hyperbole about how the cube would be "boring" without PvP. the only purpose for such a comment would be to look down your e-nose at wimpy, weak carebear bluenames; so if you're one yourself, you can just abandon that tactic.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's an awfully optimistic world view you've got there. So nobody's opinion matters and nothing ever changes? XD So why are you here, then?


If that attitude essentially is griefing, and the state of the instance encourages that attitude, then yes, it does have a place in the discussion.


I've only been saying that stuff for at least a year and a half now. >_>

We're in agreement on that. To say the new devs shot themselves in the foot would not begin to do the situation justice.

How does the cube encourage griefing? I have yet to see an applicable rationale that doesn't involve the usual red herring psychological evaluation of a player.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you haven't apparently read a single one of the many, many posts where many people (myself included) have explained what the rest of the measuring stick looks like, and you want to be taken seriously?

my preference is the least of the reasons the cube should be changed; but my preference is nevertheless at least as weighty as the preferences of those who would have it remain unchanged just because they like it the way it is. some of the smarter people on the opposite side of this argument have put forth more objective, less arbitrary reasons not to change the cube --- still insufficient reasons, mind you, but nevertheless better ones than merely "because i like it" --- yet i do not see you even trying to.

Really?
Regardless.....this whole topic is pointless and futile. The cube, which is a mainstay of PWI, is not going to be altered because a few people have little complaints about not being able to do their chrono quest, when it has not been for the hundreds if not thousands of people who have come before the people complaining now. Its just not going to happen.
There is no 'weight' to either side of the argument. Because it won't happen, and noone is weighing it. There is not one viable reason to change the cube. Its not an exploit, its not a glitch, its not 'real pk' (as in you drop and lose nothing), there can be no more 'griefing' here as there can be anywhere else (report the tiny percent of dumbasses who camp and cause grief).

Cleraly it was fully intended to be made this way as well. Whats the point of having the bored rooms? Make u stand idle for 3 and 5 mins? No. It was to make you survive other people for that long. Room 45......make you kill the Fate Spirit without BoA, DB or any other powerful AoE or else you kill the ppl helping you. Hell even Sharptoothing it can potentially kill people who might help u kill it faster.
The cube was intended to be a vengeful instance. You see someone set room 24 to 100 cards? Catch up to them in 39 and gank them for them.
The objective part of this side of the argument is that it was obviously designed this way, and serves no purpose to change it. The cube is a free-for-all game show and you know the rules going in.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Actually, in regards to the bored rooms, I think they were made just to make you wait. PW was originally pay to play. The more time they make you waste the less things you get done and the longer you will play so you can get those things done. More monthly fees for them!

The fact still remains, and yes its a fact. There is NO reason for pk to be in the cube other than the pk specific rooms. It does not serve a purpose.

The only thing that was in my way of room 38 was the dice rolls themselves not letting me into the room. Just because YOU didn't get pked in there doesn't mean other people don't. Only time someone attacked me in cube was an accident when they were trying to examine my gear.

There was one time it was a pk only room where I went afk since I wasn't expecting anyone to actually show up (no one ever does) and when I got back the npc was there. I'll pk you when I'm afk! =o (pet on defend)

Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah, I know. I saw you in room 6, remember? ;[

Then I ended up in room 10, immediately bound for room 11, and thought I'd better give the main a break and try to take my sin through cube instead. I thought it prudent to put out a PSA in my sin's faction as I know several of its members do the cube (and, indeed, have posted in this thread). ;] Sadly, my sin got up to room 12 but then got the Life mark to go ahead to room 16. I was told immediately after (from my main's faction) that you had just been spotted exiting room 11. :-/

Rep is a bad thing, man. :P But you wouldn't have to keep that vicious cycle going if the cube weren't PK-enabled.

Oh and btw? 46 isn't PK enabled. >_>

All things considered... I actually prefer to have my current rep over any other viable alternative. It gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling when there is a whole guild watching for my every action in an effort to save one of their own. I am actually building teamwork here. Wonder if its that cleric in room 11 that warned you. The only reason s/he lived is cause s/he had the balls to walk directly toward me (even if she waited for over a minute and assume i was afk and even put on plume shell). Any sorta of a curved path to avoid me would ensure instant death.

Whatever that room is with the dog that you gotta kill. After having my sin being killed while I was afk killing the dog to grab some water. I make a point of my to drop anyone that tp in there before or after me.

Ikarium - Dreamweaver

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Actually, in regards to the bored rooms, I think they were made just to make you wait. PW was originally pay to play. The more time they make you waste the less things you get done and the longer you will play so you can get those things done. More monthly fees for them!

The fact still remains, and yes its a fact. There is NO reason for pk to be in the cube other than the pk specific rooms. It does not serve a purpose.

That 8mins a day really wouldn't have served that purpose on pay to play. If you want to think that way, it serves more of a purpose now to cashshop better gear to survive the rooms.

And I'm sorry, but its NOT a "fact" of any kind that theres no reason. The only FACT is that there 2 sides to the argument. Myself and many, many others see why PK should be left alone and that it was fully designed this way and has purpose. And then theres those of you see the opposite.
I'm not claiming my side of it as written in stone fact. Its simply my opinion the cube is as originally intended by the original developers. Its a bit arrogant to label your opinion as a fact and even go as far as to stress it as such.