Cube Should Not Be Pk Enabled!!!!

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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Now Now. More people could increase the chance of people successfully completing the cube, definitely if you got some rank 9 players. As for the "fate" matter I was mentioning both pkers and type of rooms (like the hands rooms (who knows they (the pker or the one who trying to avoid the pkers) might fail there and go back to room 1)). With more poeple in the cube that supports your goal, the higher the chance that you can go into a room where you know you can maybe be safe and or survive to finish your daily cube.
    Besides it would be funny to see the pkers go on world chat claiming that they are so (insert e-peen message here) blah blah blah in the cube.

    In all fairness that would only work if he and his friends are at least decent geared enough to deal damage in the 4 digits... or AT LEAST in the high 3 digits (given enough of them). Or else I am pretty sure I alone is more then enough to wipe out an army of low to mid 3 digit dds. Its really not out of the norm... and I am pretty sure it happens more often then it should... for a single player to clear out a room of several randoms.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • CandyCorn - Raging Tide
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide Posts: 1,547 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    This is a pointless assertion. A rank 9 isn't going to need any backup. XD
    No you see the rank 9 will help you out.
    But having friends in a room with you won't help you with the room's challenges, except in specific cases (consequence rooms, room 26 if someone distracts the mob for you, etc.). And while that can certainly speed up the process a little bit, I wouldn't call that measurably reducing the chances of being PK'd. Except, again, in the cases of rooms 14 and 34.
    Having friends in the room would increase the chance of surviving against someone pking you. Ganking a pker. While the room's mission will be dependent upon yourself.
    As far as the basic room challenges go, well, that is the essence of the cube. That's where the fate comes in. Or to put it more crudely: it's supposed to be the cube of fate, not the cube of being killfarmed for someone else's e-peen. :P


    Meh, WC is usually just taken up by the TW e-peen ranters. :P

    EDIT: Oh lookie, page 19. Once again, inb4 Tremblewith ._.
    Yes the cube of fate is random and this can go towards your benefit. You might not enter the same room as the pkers.
    Also world chat has a lot of random stuff going on all the time, that is in this server.
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  • CandyCorn - Raging Tide
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide Posts: 1,547 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    In all fairness that would only work if he and his friends are at least decent geared enough to deal damage in the 4 digits... or AT LEAST in the high 3 digits (given enough of them). Or else I am pretty sure I alone is more then enough to wipe out an army of low to mid 3 digit dds. Its really not out of the norm... and I am pretty sure it happens more often then it should... for a single player to clear out a room of several randoms.

    Stun lock, seal them, and sleep them until they are dead if you do can not do sufficient amount of damage. In the worse case scenario you one person would die and the rest survive (if you play your cards right).
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  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    @Tremblewith

    Looks like you'll be getting your 20 pages

    @People claiming their should be no PK in cube aren't saying their shouldn't be any PK period. We are simply saying this

    On a server advertized as being a PVE server, their should be no point where you are forced to PVP. You cannot complete all of your culti (arguably the only necessary quest line in the entire game, and the only one that really advances the main storyline of the game) if you don't go in there. You cannot get all of your skills without going in there.

    Also, on a server that takes peoples money claiming to be player vs environment, there shouldn't be a way to pk people for no reason at all. That is what people who join pve servers are attempting to avoid.

    Cultis were stated as something by the admins as something worth protecting, thus they banned PK in SP. Even though any PK in SP is impossible unless you choose to go white name in a PVE server this rule is still enforced on these servers because culti is so important. It makes little sense to have this rule, but no have cube designed the same way.
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  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »
    No you see the rank 9 will help you out.

    Having friends in the room would increase the chance of surviving against someone pking you. Ganking a pker. While the room's mission will be dependent upon yourself.

    Yes the cube of fate is random and this can go towards your benefit. You might not enter the same room as the pkers.
    Also world chat has a lot of random stuff going on all the time, that is in this server.
    I maintain that none of this will make a measurable difference, though. And even if it could, that difference would easily be lost in the massive luck-based ambiguity of the cube in general. :P
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  • CandyCorn - Raging Tide
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide Posts: 1,547 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I maintain that none of this will make a measurable difference, though. And even if it could, that difference would easily be lost in the massive luck-based ambiguity of the cube in general. :P

    Well everyone's entitled to their opinions so I won't say that's..yeah. Well there is still a slightly higher chance that this idea could increase the chance of someone finishing the cube.
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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I maintain that none of this will make a measurable difference, though. And even if it could, that difference would easily be lost in the massive luck-based ambiguity of the cube in general. :P

    The point of group cubing isn't about praying that everyone end up in the same room... especially when you have an r9 in the group. Its about eliminating everyone that you see so the weakest link in your group has less competition or dangers along the way. When I cube with my girlfriend... she generally would have a higher chance of finishing the cube without any incident. Its not cause we are always in the same room... its cause I ALWAYS eliminate ANYONE that I see along the way.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • CandyCorn - Raging Tide
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide Posts: 1,547 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The point of group cubing isn't about praying that everyone end up in the same room... especially when you have an r9 in the group. Its about eliminating everyone that you see so the weakest link in your group has less competition or dangers along the way. When I cube with my girlfriend... she generally would have a higher chance of finishing the cube without any incident. Its not cause we are always in the same room... its cause I ALWAYS eliminate ANYONE that I see along the way.

    The goal of group cubing is so that everyone has a higher chance of finishing the cube. Now I don't know about that "eliminating the weakest players in the cube", that might be for some people but then again some might not take that road.
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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »
    The goal of group cubing is so that everyone has a higher chance of finishing the cube. Now I don't know about that "eliminating the weakest players in the cube", that might be for some people but then again some might not take that road.

    Guess we see it differently. Of course when you throw a dozen or so people in to cube... maybe half a dozen of them might finish without getting killed. But if I can eliminate any and all aggressor that is also running the cube. There hopefully won't be any aggressive player left in cube when my group-mates hits a pk enabled waiting room. Each and every guy I kill will increase the chance of my teammates' survival.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • CandyCorn - Raging Tide
    CandyCorn - Raging Tide Posts: 1,547 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Guess we see it differently. Of course when you throw a dozen or so people in to cube... maybe half a dozen of them might finish without getting killed. But if I can eliminate any and all aggressor that is also running the cube. There hopefully won't be any aggressive player left in cube when my group-mates hits a pk enabled waiting room. Each and every guy I kill will increase the chance of my teammates' survival.

    I like where that is going.

    Page 20..whoever that guy was that wanted to see this thread go to page 20...your welcome.
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  • Tremblewith - Heavens Tear
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,558 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    PAGE 20!

    I came.
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    PAGE 20!

    I came.

    congratulations, have a tee shirt. now you can cuss about not having gotten anything more out of this deal.
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  • Barber - Heavens Tear
    Barber - Heavens Tear Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    welp to put it bluntly ( I didnt see this topic till now) theres is no reason in the world for the cube to be PK enabled cept for the 2 pk rooms which i can understand

    most of the time the people that pk others in the cube will go to a room for a long time and just kill anyone that comes in for a stupid pk count which isn't good for anything anyway

    theres a reason why people pick a non pk server so they dont have to deal with that stupid **** at all in any shape and/or form

    all i can say is this, anyone that pks people that dont pk or dont give a flying leap at a rolling donut about pk is just some poor little kid that would probably be like the people that pinch babies in the crib or go to playground and push the smaller kids from off of the monkey bars so they can prove how big a boy they are.

    in the words of Roy D Mercer "How Bigga Boy R YA!"

    now im outta here and not going to get into stupid quote fest on how "If ya wanna do the Cube, then you're asking for it"

    Peace out i'm gone :p
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  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    This thread gave me a good laugh. I love the PvE sense of entitlement. TBH, its almost as bad as if they made an RP server. All the QQ because people don't want to play the same way that you do.

    On the economic impact argument, the amount that one person can affect the page economy is most likely minuscule. At the same time tho, even if it is a stupid idea to do so and a waste of one's time, it is someone's choice. You can say that its stupid, or that he isn't affecting the economy, but all of those arguments fall flat since not everything that you do in this game is productive. You could bring 100 lvl 1's to kill a world boss, but it's not likely to go down. Are you going to say that they need to make it so a mob won't aggro you and you can't attack it if you are under lvl 50?

    And on the culti issue, as far as I see it, getting a lvl 100 skill is as important as getting r9/etc. So many people do just fine without it. Excluding cash shop, the only way to get r9 is to PvP. Just to make it sound silly tho, you don't need to do chrono quest until lvl 100, in which case most of the pk'ers will be on par with you. If you really have the 65+ million coins that you need to get a stupid skill, odds are you probably have much better gear.

    I agree that it would really suck to get PK'd by someone and then they are on PvE server so they can just hide thru the rest of the game and I couldn't revenge them. But then again, that is why I play on a PvP server.
  • VenusArmani - Dreamweaver
    VenusArmani - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,009 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    This thread gave me a good laugh. I love the PvE sense of entitlement. TBH, its almost as bad as if they made an RP server. All the QQ because people don't want to play the same way that you do.




    There is already an option for people who want to pk to do every single thing in this game in the way they want to play. They can get all of their skills playing the method they do not want to play. You cannot get all your skills playing the way you want to play if you are a pve only person, despite the fact that you rolled a pve server. It's not QQ because people don't want to play the same way I do, it's QQ over the fact that their way is the only we are allowed to play if we want to actually finish the story of the game and get all of our skills.
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  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    No one on the PVE servers have a problem with the PKers choosing to PK each other. They can go white and have their fun.

    We have a problem that they make us play the PK game, when that isn't what we signed up for.

    Saying that - it's not a huge deal. I've been PKed in cube twice, and only one of those wasn't in a forced pk room. (And the pk room I at least took the attacker down with me)

    As I've said before on other threads - the main problem is that it isn't signposted. Lots of cube rooms are pk enabled, but there's no "Leaving safe zone" warning.
    If it was a big explicit "Go in the cube and you ARE at risk of being killed" then... that would be ok.
    It would also kinda suck, since there's game elements which require the cube, but it would be tolerable.
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote:
    On the economic impact argument, the amount that one person can affect the page economy is most likely minuscule. At the same time tho, even if it is a stupid idea to do so and a waste of one's time, it is someone's choice. You can say that its stupid, or that he isn't affecting the economy, but all of those arguments fall flat since not everything that you do in this game is productive.
    Agreed, but what was unique about Kiyoshi's situation is how (at first, anyway) he tried to rationalize unprovoked cube PKing because of it. It's not only pointless griefing, it's inventing flimsy reasons to try and defend pointless griefing (you'll notice that he dropped that argument later on and defaulted to his "I am god, I don't care about you, come kill me if you wanna change that" mantra :P).

    And that's the problem with the whole thing. There is no reason for people to PK in cube other than in 14/34. It's not about culti, it's not about the exp, it's not even about the skills. Most of this thread has been people, those who share my opinion, trying to defend the idea of a PK-free cube. I feel like this is misguided, because why should we give rationales for our arguments when there are explicitly none for our opposition?

    It's not about how much we "need" the cube. It's about how PKers do not need and will never need to PK there. It causes no effect for the PKer and a detrimental effect for the PK'd. There will never be a rationalization for this.
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  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    This thread gave me a good laugh. I love the PvE sense of entitlement. TBH, its almost as bad as if they made an RP server. All the QQ because people don't want to play the same way that you do.

    your idea of what the word "entitlement" means is almost exactly backwards.

    PvE players wanting to play PvE on a PvE server without any PvP players forcing them into PvP against the PvE'ers wishes cannot by any reasonable logic be called "entitlement". quite the opposite; PvP players who wish to force PvP play upon non-PvP players, even on a PvE server --- THAT is an issue of entitlement.

    perhaps you should have googled the word before you posted? the first three hits cover its field of meaning fairly well.
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  • Annalyse - Heavens Tear
    Annalyse - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,618 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    And on the culti issue, as far as I see it, getting a lvl 100 skill is as important as getting r9/etc. So many people do just fine without it. Excluding cash shop, the only way to get r9 is to PvP. Just to make it sound silly tho, you don't need to do chrono quest until lvl 100, in which case most of the pk'ers will be on par with you. If you really have the 65+ million coins that you need to get a stupid skill, odds are you probably have much better gear.

    These two things are not comparable. I know lots of people that have attained R9 without ever having to PK someone. "Excluding cash shop" simply doesn't work, because that is a means to attain something (even for non-cash shoppers since they can buy from players) without being thrown into a forced PvP environment. Do you see a pass on culti 100, allowing you to thereby get skills without Cube, in the cash shop? I never have.

    And not all of us gear up for PvP. So while some, like me, might have the coin for 100 skills should we choose to get them, we also don't spend all that money on R9 or Nirvana or whatnot because we are PvE players. I find TT99 just fine for my main, but there is no way I could stand up to a R9 player. I shouldn't have to gear myself for PvP because I never intend to PK anyone, ever. I am on a PvE server for a reason.
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  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    your idea of what the word "entitlement" means is almost exactly backwards.

    PvE players wanting to play PvE on a PvE server without any PvP players forcing them into PvP against the PvE'ers wishes cannot by any reasonable logic be called "entitlement". quite the opposite; PvP players who wish to force PvP play upon non-PvP players, even on a PvE server --- THAT is an issue of entitlement.

    perhaps you should have googled the word before you posted? the first three hits cover its field of meaning fairly well.

    I'm sorry, at least they gave you PvE servers, taking content away from the game and all. If it was up to me, I would have made every server PvP enabled. This makes you get a faction, friends, etc to help you level and do things. It makes you work together and learn your class. Oh, and you are not entitled to anything. PWE could put a huge sale out and then shut down the servers for good once you charged. They could shut down the servers at anytime, could change them to PvP at anytime, could do ANYTHING and there is nothing that you can do to stop it. They could reset everybody's levels, ban you for anything, etc. I am not saying that they will, but all this game is really is a piece of code and some servers that they OWN. They are letting you play on them. Read any online game TOS.

    The way I look at it, I'm sure its not how you do, is that PvE servers were more of a gift than anything, to appease people who thought that PvP servers were to scary or hard to roll on.

    All PvE does in my opinion is take consequences away from griefers/trolls. Someone screwed over your faction, or stole something from you? On PvP server, you can drop everything that you are doing and KOS them. Maybe they will drop something. PvE servers, all you can do is QQ the world chat or come on forums. Someone is being an idiot and **** up an instance? Boot them from the party and PK their ***. Although PvP does allow griefing, it also brings consequences to the griefers.

    The same cannot be said of PvE. People can still grief you in other ways, and you can do nothing about it. I have heard stories about "blue" names harassing (sexually and otherwise) people on PvE servers. You can't do anything to make them leave other than submit a ticket and move on (good luck on that working). On a PvP server, you can PK them and then get a bag of popcorn and listen to them QQ since their E-Peen was just deflated.
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    I'm sorry, at least they gave you PvE servers, taking content away from the game and all.

    oddly enough, i can go whitenamed whenever i please. i do not so please. nor do i wish to be forced to. no game content has been removed --- i am merely not forced against my wishes to participate in some of it. now if only this were still true in the cube!
    If it was up to me, I would have made every server PvP enabled. This makes you get a faction, friends, etc to help you level and do things. It makes you work together and learn your class.

    faction? check. friends? check. leveling? as fast as i please to. work together and learn my class? not a problem.

    strangely enough, ALL these activities are entirely possible without PvP. your premise is incorrect.
    The way I look at it, I'm sure its not how you do, is that PvE servers were more of a gift than anything, to appease people who thought that PvP servers were to scary or hard to roll on.

    even if they were, this would have no bearing whatever on my points or my arguments. but is it reasonable to assume they were? let's count: PvP servers - two; PvE servers - seven. that's quite some gift. more likely, it seems to me, the "gift" (if such it were) went in the other direction.
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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    On the economic impact argument, the amount that one person can affect the page economy is most likely minuscule.

    Sure... my contribution to the whole scheme of things can be described as minuscule. But last time I checked... i wasn't the only one pking in cube. Thats like saying that if I can only get a dozen kills in a given tw... that makes my contribution minuscule. Sure... that could be true... but problem with that is... there is 79 other people on my teaming pking. The kills do add up. And I am pretty sure back in the days when i cube... there is MORE then 79 other people pking in cube.

    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Agreed, but what was unique about Kiyoshi's situation is how (at first, anyway) he tried to rationalize unprovoked cube PKing because of it. It's not only pointless griefing, it's inventing flimsy reasons to try and defend pointless griefing (you'll notice that he dropped that argument later on and defaulted to his "I am god, I don't care about you, come kill me if you wanna change that" mantra :P).

    There are various reasons that i have for killing people... just cause i mention another doesn't mean the first one doesn't apply. I'll even list the top 10 reasons that I kill people in cube for you... in order of the most to the least important.

    1. Cause I can.
    2. Cause I still can.
    3. Cause I am bored.
    4. Cause I don't like you.
    5. Cause your armor isn't shinny enough.
    6. Cause your armor is too shinny.
    7. Cause you are standing in my spot.
    8. Cause you are not standing in my spot.
    9. Cause my squad-mate(s) asked me to.
    10. Cause I want to reduce the number of pages generated.

    None of my kills in cube are pointless griefing... that much I can say. I never stayed in the room over my allocated time for the sake of camping for randoms. Killing in cube must be done if the room is pk enabled... unless you know everyone is friendly. Heck... I got pked once in room 38 while trying to sneak pass the bugs cause I neglected to kill someone that entered after me. You can bet I'll never make that mistake again. Anyone who is in the same room as me... and is not a friendly... will be targeted... no questions asked (by me). If they manage to kill me in return... good for them. And finally, I enjoy my reputation of not being particularly well liked on the server.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    oddly enough, i can go whitenamed whenever i please. i do not so please. nor do i wish to be forced to. no game content has been removed --- i am merely not forced against my wishes to participate in some of it. now if only this were still true in the cube!

    Open world PvP is content. Being able to retaliate against someone who has scammed you/screwed something up is content. They can just go "blue" name and just laugh as you QQ on the forums like this.

    faction? check. friends? check. leveling? as fast as i please to. work together and learn my class? not a problem.

    strangely enough, ALL these activities are entirely possible without PvP. your premise is incorrect.

    No amount of faction mates or friends can help you when someone pisses you off. It's just more people to QQ on the forums. Leveling was never part of my premise. Survivability and playing the full game was.

    even if they were, this would have no bearing whatever on my points or my arguments. but is it reasonable to assume they were? let's count: PvP servers - two; PvE servers - seven. that's quite some gift. more likely, it seems to me, the "gift" (if such it were) went in the other direction.

    There are more PvE than PvP servers because there are too many carebears out there. Also, which server makes PWE more money? A PvE server where you can be content in your HH99 and PvE all you like, or a PvP server where you need to get rank/NV/etc and spend more time and money because if you don't, you will just be a non-factor all the time. They are simply following market trends in making more PvE servers.
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    In addition to / support of Lenie's replies:
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    Oh, and you are not entitled to anything. PWE could put a huge sale out and then shut down the servers for good once you charged. They could shut down the servers at anytime, could change them to PvP at anytime, could do ANYTHING and there is nothing that you can do to stop it. They could reset everybody's levels, ban you for anything, etc. I am not saying that they will, but all this game is really is a piece of code and some servers that they OWN. They are letting you play on them. Read any online game TOS.
    Don't insult our intelligence with what we already know. PWE could easily do just as drastic measures in support of PVE over PVP... therefore this point is moot.
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    All PvE does in my opinion is take consequences away from griefers/trolls. Someone screwed over your faction, or stole something from you? On PvP server, you can drop everything that you are doing and KOS them. Maybe they will drop something. PvE servers, all you can do is QQ the world chat or come on forums. Someone is being an idiot and **** up an instance? Boot them from the party and PK their ***. Although PvP does allow griefing, it also brings consequences to the griefers.
    This argument will never hold up, with the PVP system the way it is. Even if your personal vendettas are objectively for the greater good (and that's a big assumption), it all becomes moot if you can't put a dent in their r9'd ***.

    Griefing is neutralized via prevention - namely, by removing or reforming any systems that encourage it. Don't pretend that an "eye for an eye" system is an acceptable substitute, because even if that worked, it would still be an inherently unstable and error-prone system. Using your own example, that squad leader could just as easily be the "idiot **** up an instance" himself, kicking and PKing the only voice of reason in the squad (who HE sees as the "idiot").
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    The same cannot be said of PvE. People can still grief you in other ways, and you can do nothing about it. I have heard stories about "blue" names harassing (sexually and otherwise) people on PvE servers. You can't do anything to make them leave other than submit a ticket and move on (good luck on that working). On a PvP server, you can PK them and then get a bag of popcorn and listen to them QQ since their E-Peen was just deflated.
    I've played on PVE servers for over 2.5 years and I can count off on one hand the number of players who have tried to harass or stalk my characters. And all of those instances, in fact, were on my minor female alts, the antagonists being low-leveled male players who apparently viewed PWI as a glorified cyber-sex chatroom. XD I didn't even have to blacklist them. I remember one occasion in particular where, on my (female) BM, all I had to do was get into the air and fly rings around the lowbie barb's head to make him get frustrated and give up. :P

    tl;dr, this is no argument for the superiority of PVP, nor PVP servers, in the slightest.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sure... my contribution to the whole scheme of things can be described as minuscule. But last time I checked... i wasn't the only one pking in cube. Thats like saying that if I can only get a dozen kills in a given tw... that makes my contribution minuscule. Sure... that could be true... but problem with that is... there is 79 other people on my teaming pking. The kills do add up. And I am pretty sure back in the days when i cube... there is MORE then 79 other people pking in cube.




    There are various reasons that i have for killing people... just cause i mention another doesn't mean the first one doesn't apply. I'll even list the top 10 reasons that I kill people in cube for you... in order of the most to the least important.

    1. Cause I can.
    2. Cause I still can.
    3. Cause I am bored.
    4. Cause I don't like you.
    5. Cause your armor isn't shinny enough.
    6. Cause your armor is too shinny.
    7. Cause you are standing in my spot.
    8. Cause you are not standing in my spot.
    9. Cause my squad-mate(s) asked me to.
    10. Cause I want to reduce the number of pages generated.

    None of my kills in cube are pointless griefing... that much I can say. I never stayed in the room over my allocated time for the sake of camping for randoms. Killing in cube must be done if the room is pk enabled... unless you know everyone is friendly. Heck... I got pked once in room 38 while trying to sneak pass the bugs cause I neglected to kill someone that entered after me. You can bet I'll never make that mistake again. Anyone who is in the same room as me... and is not a friendly... will be targeted... no questions asked (by me). If they manage to kill me in return... good for them. And finally, I enjoy my reputation of not being particularly well liked on the server.

    Your posts almost make me want to re-roll on a PvE server. If anything doesn't go the PvE'ers way, they just flock to the forums or world chat and QQ. It's funny.
  • LenieClarke - Heavens Tear
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,275 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    There are more PvE than PvP servers because there are too many carebears out there.

    "too many"? by whose standards? and how many would be just enough, pray tell?

    hmm, it seems to me you're trying to tell PWE they have too many paying customers. of course i can't be certain, but somehow i don't think they agree.
    Also, which server makes PWE more money?

    since we're not working for the PWE billing department, neither one of us can know with any certainty, but... the last time they opened some new servers, it was a pair of PvE ones. just sayin'.
    A PvE server where you can be content in your HH99 and PvE all you like, or a PvP server where you need to get rank/NV/etc and spend more time and money because if you don't, you will just be a non-factor all the time. They are simply following market trends in making more PvE servers.

    i boldfaced the part where you flatly contradicted the non-boldfaced part. HTH.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Heaven's Tear alts: KenLubin, Sou_Hon, JudyCaraco --- level 5x chars.
  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    In addition to / support of Lenie's replies:

    Don't insult our intelligence with what we already know. PWE could easily do just as drastic measures in support of PVE over PVP... therefore this point is moot.


    This argument will never hold up, with the PVP system the way it is. Even if your personal vendettas are objectively for the greater good (and that's a big assumption), it all becomes moot if you can't put a dent in their r9'd ***.

    Griefing is neutralized via prevention - namely, by removing or reforming any systems that encourage it. Don't pretend that an "eye for an eye" system is an acceptable substitute, because even if that worked, it would still be an inherently unstable and error-prone system. Using your own example, that squad leader could just as easily be the "idiot **** up an instance" himself, kicking and PKing the only voice of reason in the squad (who HE sees as the "idiot").


    I've played on PVE servers for over 2.5 years and I can count off on one hand the number of players who have tried to harass or stalk my characters. And all of those instances, in fact, were on my minor female alts, the antagonists being low-leveled male players who apparently viewed PWI as a glorified cyber-sex chatroom. XD I didn't even have to blacklist them. I remember one occasion in particular where, on my (female) BM, all I had to do was get into the air and fly rings around the lowbie barb's head to make him get frustrated and give up. :P

    tl;dr, this is no argument for the superiority of PVP, nor PVP servers, in the slightest.

    1) I am not insulting your intelligence. I am just explaining why there is no "entitlement" in an online game.

    2) KOS is for your own good. And I do know people who hunt down others when they log on. Faction vs. Faction wars or PvP wars erupt all the time in SP and such. And if they are r9, then you just have to deal with it and move on. Or better yet, get r9 yourself. Oh wait, you are content with you TT99 gear because PvE is so easy in this game.

    3) Eye for an Eye is acceptable, and is the only thing that has ever really worked. Even today's system is some form of retributive punishment. You steal from someone, you get thrown in jail and your time is "stolen". Even if it is more refined and acceptable, in the real world you can only enforce rules with retribution of some sort.

    4) If it is a party leader, odds are you aren't going to finish the instance anyway, so drop squad, pk him, and tele out before anyone realizes what happened.

    5) That is good that you haven't had to deal with harassment, but I have heard of others who have.

    PvP makes it more of a complete game. Learn to play around it, or take advantage of it. It isn't like 90% of the useful game is instanced anyway, where you enter with friends and can PvE to your heart's content.
  • Ginrai - Heavens Tear
    Ginrai - Heavens Tear Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Sharuum - Lost City wrote: »
    And on the culti issue, as far as I see it, getting a lvl 100 skill is as important as getting r9/etc. So many people do just fine without it. Excluding cash shop, the only way to get r9 is to PvP. Just to make it sound silly tho, you don't need to do chrono quest until lvl 100, in which case most of the pk'ers will be on par with you. If you really have the 65+ million coins that you need to get a stupid skill, odds are you probably have much better gear.
    That's not the point, finishing your lvl 100 culti and the two full RBs and masses of other hard TTs, bosses and everything else that it takes to do is a big achievement. Other than continual gear improvement, its the end, you've finished the game. I've got my sage fairy on 3 chars now, not because I ever have any intention of blowing a pile of coins on getting any level 100 skills, just to be able to say that I've done it.

    I seem to be fairly lucky in cube, I run it on multiple chars a day and I run into I would say 98% nice people who are just trying to reach the end same as I am. I try not to pre-judge people based on faction or class, e.g. yesterday I ran into a executor from Enrage in room 14, a BM had just died so the NPC was already there, she didn't attack me, and we ended up chatting and she was really nice :) On the flipside, my cleric buffed a veno in a random room and then she PK'd me. So I try to assume everyone is nice until they prove otherwise. But I remember who has picked on me and next time I run into them, I'll shoot first. That's not me picking on them to be an *** so please nobody go claiming that that makes me no better than they are, its anticipatory self defence.

    Isn't it better to spend your time meeting nice people to hang out and enjoy playing the game with, rather than seeing who you can gripe and upset? Maybe that's why there's so many posts in this thread from other folks from Nocturne :D
  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    LenieClarke - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    "too many"? by whose standards? and how many would be just enough, pray tell?

    hmm, it seems to me you're trying to tell PWE they have too many paying customers. of course i can't be certain, but somehow i don't think they agree.



    since we're not working for the PWE billing department, neither one of us can know with any certainty, but... the last time they opened some new servers, it was a pair of PvE ones. just sayin'.



    i boldfaced the part where you flatly contradicted the non-boldfaced part. HTH.

    True, I didn't realize that was a contradiction. LC is crowded though, and I don't think too many people would migrate to a new PvP server as they have already put so much time into this one. I guess I just can't understand why anyone would put real money into a server with no real goal. PvE in this game is such a joke nowadays. Why would anybody waste their time on that with no PvP goal in mind. I guess I just have better things to do with my time than run NV for a good dagger that just makes me run NV faster in the future.
  • Sharuum - Lost City
    Sharuum - Lost City Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited July 2011
    Ginrai - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That's not the point, finishing your lvl 100 culti and the two full RBs and masses of other hard TTs, bosses and everything else that it takes to do is a big achievement. Other than continual gear improvement, its the end, you've finished the game. I've got my sage fairy on 3 chars now, not because I ever have any intention of blowing a pile of coins on getting any level 100 skills, just to be able to say that I've done it.

    I seem to be fairly lucky in cube, I run it on multiple chars a day and I run into I would say 98% nice people who are just trying to reach the end same as I am. I try not to pre-judge people based on faction or class, e.g. yesterday I ran into a executor from Enrage in room 14, a BM had just died so the NPC was already there, she didn't attack me, and we ended up chatting and she was really nice :) On the flipside, my cleric buffed a veno in a random room and then she PK'd me. So I try to assume everyone is nice until they prove otherwise. But I remember who has picked on me and next time I run into them, I'll shoot first. That's not me picking on them to be an *** so please nobody go claiming that that makes me no better than they are, its anticipatory self defence.

    Isn't it better to spend your time meeting nice people to hang out and enjoy playing the game with, rather than seeing who you can gripe and upset? Maybe that's why there's so many posts in this thread from other folks from Nocturne :D

    Nothing is hard in this game when you can just throw some 5.0's at it. If you are playing the game without those things, and making it a challenge then I commend you. If I only had PvE to look forward to, I would get bored and have left the game a long time ago.

    It is nice to meet nice people and hang out, that is what factions are for. And I am sure there are nice people out of faction too, but I don't feel that anybody should be forced to play nice. Hence, why I play on a PvP server.

    And at this point on my PSY, I do not initiate PvP, but I am always looking for others who do. It is fun to have to anticipate it, brings a sense of excitement into the game.

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