Nerf mage and psy damage, as well as soulforce

Minimus_ - Sanctuary

Disagree. If you have a wiz only you have a hard time gearing up your char (if you aren't spending) and it wont be easy to fight in pk (sins). The two places a wizard can shine is TW and maybe delta. But getting into a decent Nirvana or 3.3 squad isn't easy. As for psys: They aren't unstoppable if you know the buffs and icons. Here again: Gear up a psy as your only main. I can make or get into squad easily with my bm. Psy is the opposite. Ppl think I am less DD than wiz and prefer for sure an aps. Also there are ppl around who can kill a well geared psy as well.
There is a problem in general with TW that melees have a disadvantage vs. ranged classes but changing that shouldn't happen at the cost of wiz/psy but rather change the blessing to a 15:15 one or something.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

They did, they took away our r9. I vote 5aps next woooooooot.

Except R9 is still obtainable, last I checked TW still gives away medals, if you aren't in a guild that can win TWs then yea, expect to pay a lot.

After reading all this..... LOL
If you hate casters so much reroll one?

You totally missed the point of this thread.

Disagree. If you have a wiz only you have a hard time gearing up your char (if you aren't spending) and it wont be easy to fight in pk (sins).

Compare getting 150mil for a +10 rank 8 to getting the gears for a 5 aps BM/Barb/Archer. You need lunar claws or better, two peices of TT99 HA and 2 pieces of TT99 LA, you need a lunar cape, TT99 wrists and nirvana legs or a scroll of tome. And that's just the base, keep in mind you need at least a +10 weapon.

as for sins, they kill everyone, otherwise a +10 rank 8 mage is still VERY scary.

As for psys: They aren't unstoppable if you know the buffs and icons.

Except they're always buffed, always. Sure I can use anti stun to get around the stun but the seal? Have you seen a high soulforce endgame psy? You get in maybe 3 hits before you're sealed. MAYBE. And those three hits aren't doing much when the psy has +110 DEF. And with soul of retaliation you take more damage than you do.


As for it being harder for a psy or mage to run PvE, that's the point, that the classes trade off PvE for PvP effectiveness, or vice versa.

Schulyer - Dreamweaver

Chuck_N - Lost City wrote: »

but who plays a psy?

I play a psy b:cute

IDecision - Raging Tide

No **** lol. Isnt that the answer to everything. If you hate it just reroll it right lmfao. Broken game is broken why are you acting surprised this isnt anything new.

nakoa

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Except R9 is still obtainable, last I checked TW still gives away medals, if you aren't in a guild that can win TWs then yea, expect to pay a lot.



You totally missed the point of this thread.



Compare getting 150mil for a +10 rank 8 to getting the gears for a 5 aps BM/Barb/Archer. You need lunar claws or better, two peices of TT99 HA and 2 pieces of TT99 LA, you need a lunar cape, TT99 wrists and nirvana legs or a scroll of tome. And that's just the base, keep in mind you need at least a +10 weapon.

as for sins, they kill everyone, otherwise a +10 rank 8 mage is still VERY scary.




Except they're always buffed, always. Sure I can use anti stun to get around the stun but the seal? Have you seen a high soulforce endgame psy? You get in maybe 3 hits before you're sealed. MAYBE. And those three hits aren't doing much when the psy has +110 DEF. And with soul of retaliation you take more damage than you do.


As for it being harder for a psy or mage to run PvE, that's the point, that the classes trade off PvE for PvP effectiveness, or vice versa.In PvP a mage or psy with equal amount of cash or coins invested in gears will be far superior to a 5 aps. With magic marrow up a mage can hit for 5k with sandstorm, noncrit. With the amount of money the BM had invested on 5 aps gears the mage will have a +10 rank 8 weapon with 2 sapphire gems, as well as a +10 physical defense cube necklace as well as at least 8k hp buffed.

Equal geared mage vs. BM the mage will win 9 times out of 10.

And TW? Not even close, a mage is sitting back one shotting groups of people with no real danger, while a BM is dying repeatedly and hoping to get one stun off before he dies.


And don't even get me started on psychics.



My point is that PvE build/characters have their advantages and disadvantages, and that PvP builds/characters have their advantages and disadvantages. When you made your character you choose how to build your character, if you want PvE then you built a PvE char, if you wanted PvP, you built a PvP char.

this form is much more lame then the hole 5 apps ones that have been made,

for 1 Five apps ppl dont even need that much skill 2 even kill in pvp and pwe + u guys make more coin not 2 mention casters skills cost more + psys has 6 skils cost as much as your arma +sage and Demon cost more as well.


oh and on top oh that DO U REALLY THINK THAT ALL PSYS HAVE THE COIN OR $$$ 2 GET RANK9 HUH!! AND 110 DEF LVS!! u RE.TARD it ant cheep Same goes for the Refines, as for the R8 sure u kinda got me there . . . .

but heyy there is a good side 2 it all, Wizzys and psys and mostly veno . . . there ant much of them!!! YAY!! and alot of pys are alts that some of them only think that soulburn = win all the time NO retar.d it does not -.- yeah sure it can kill u 5apps if we cast it with success but if he see's it he can stop attacking . ..

and !! the funny part is , not every one understands pys skill . . .. u no what im going to stop because u only made this because u have nothing to do and u are bord out of your maind so u made this topic 2 have a kick out of it and 2 c what every one els will say... this is no more them a form TROOLL.

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary

Oh wow for once ppl are QQing over smth else than sins b:laugh

truekossy

And so many people can't even see what the purpose of this thread really is.

Makes me laugh.

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Something tells me most people have NEVER heard of this before, and I actually shoulnd't give away the secret to beating Force of Will (and soul of silence) but...

There IS a genie skill that makes you imume to seal for a little while.
And maybe you should try spike dmg instead of roflnoob aps if the reflect hurts you

Abstractive - Archosaur

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh wow for once ppl are QQing over smth else than sins b:laugh

Mage rage !! Lulz

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Rawrgh wrote:

Stuff

Clearly you only heard about playing a wizard or psychic.


I wish you would actually roll a wizard with 150 millions and then rage about "^$#&#^ sins killling me from &#$&*$ stealth" b:chuckle


Or about r8 archers oneshotting your squishy *** in TW everytime you try to cast an ulti.


Or to see your eyes watering when you try to earn money for better gear and your super-duper wizard gets denied to every single instance except GV "because your aps suck" b:pleased



Caster classes are more expensive to build right and, even after getting proper gears, useless for money-making. If I would have 150 mill right now, I would roll a sin, get it to decent APS, then farm all the money for better gears, once done with a sin I would roll a caster class and gear it with money farmed by aps class


Glad I don't have to do it myself, merchanting is slower but works for me.

Dellores - Dreamweaver

Ooooh....a caster QQ thread. Its original I like it

Anywho:

Melee - PVE

Casters - PVP

Casters will QQ about not being able to finish instances in 10min, while melee classes QQ struggling to be relevant in TW. Sounds about right to me b:pleased

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

I wish you would actually roll a wizard with 150 millions and then rage about "^$#&#^ sins killling me from &#$&*$ stealth"

Sins kill everyone from stealth, this is irrelevant.

Or about r8 archers oneshotting your squishy *** in TW everytime you try to cast an ulti.

R8 archers who are probably the worst 5 aps chars due to no bloodpaint?

Or to see your eyes watering when you try to earn money for better gear and your super-duper wizard gets denied to every single instance except GV "because your aps suck"

That's the point, that casters are not good in PvE because they are good in PvP.

Caster classes are more expensive to build right and, even after getting proper gears, useless for money-making. If I would have 150 mill right now, I would roll a sin, get it to decent APS, then farm all the money for better gears, once done with a sin I would roll a caster class and gear it with money farmed by aps class

150mil won't even get you the weapon.

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary

Yeah..melee is hell of a lot more expensive than mage. All my mages can live off one bank, but my seeker and sin need their own money -,-.

Jatoni - Sanctuary wrote: »

y Yu Mayke Dem Psychic Filet O Fish And Dem Dragon Throwin Magic Peepoll So Strong Aye? Y Yu Make Dem Fish Carry Dem Big Balls In Dey Hands Mang Why Dem Wizard Peepoll So Strong Mang? How Come I Can"t Punch Dem And Dey Be Runnin Home To Dey Momma Mang They Be Too Strong Mang Autotune Dem Mang They Wont Be Doin Da Faceroll No More Mang

Attack of the Comic Sans Monster! Everyone hit the deck!

TurboWolf - Harshlands

I vote for archers against this. It just doesn't seem that there are many archers.

CandyCorn - Raging Tide

/Groovy/ - Harshlands wrote: »

Clearly you only heard about playing a wizard or psychic.


I wish you would actually roll a wizard with 150 millions and then rage about "^$#&#^ sins killling me from &#$&*$ stealth" b:chuckle

immune pot + genie stun skill + channeling gear...what sin?

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

R8 archers who are probably the worst 5 aps chars due to no bloodpaint?

He was talking about the ones that use a bow -_-
cause you know, they DO still exist

Longknife - Harshlands

Soul of Vengeance and Soul of Silence could use a nerf. The upside is that we're literally only talking about +12 everything Psys who reach this OP level (the amount of soulforce gained from refining increases as the refine level increases; a Psy with full +7 gear will barely scratch 18k soulforce, full +11 would probably find itself at about 33-35k and full +12 would be at 55k). Still, 55k Soulforce means 2k Soul of Vengeance reflects and a 30% chance of silence on every hit.
Luckily, and I could be wrong, but I believe Soul of Vengeance and Soul of Retaliation saw a nerf in how much they reflect recently. Before they reflected the same amounts on all opponents, with the damage only slightly affected by a couple factors . Recently I noticed my Soul of Retaliation reflect varying quite a bit depending on what player hit me, so I'd assume physical resistance or something now plays a role in how much it deals. As for Soul of Silence, they should just toss the reflect down to 20% at max. Strong enough to still matter (especially with 5aps enemies) but low enough that it's not an absolute nightmare.

_Aubree__ - Dreamweaver

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

immune pot + genie stun skill + channeling gear...what sin?

Something tells me you haven't fought a decent sin.

BulllsEyez - Heavens Tear

Caster classes are more expensive to build right and, even after getting proper gears, useless for money-making. If I would have 150 mill right now, I would roll a sin, get it to decent APS, then farm all the money for better gears, once done with a sin I would roll a caster class and gear it with money farmed by aps class

b:shocked Tell me pls your secret , how to get decent aps sin in 150m? b:thanks

/Groovy/ - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Sins kill everyone from stealth, this is irrelevant.

True, but they target squishes way more often, as it takes way less effort. I'm fairly sure sin equipped with TT80 daggers would take your "150mill wiz" in no time. 2 spark in invisiblity -> headhunt = oneshot.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

R8 archers who are probably the worst 5 aps chars due to no bloodpaint?

Didn't mention r8 archers as an aps class, did mention them to correct you that refining r8 weapon alone on your caster doesn't prevent you from sucking *** in TW.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

That's the point, that casters are not good in PvE because they are good in PvP.

Thing is, this game isn't about skills, it's about gear. So APS classes got obvious advantage in both PvE and PvP. No matter how pro you will be with your wiz skill-wise, r9 cleric or even r9 BM will eat you for breakfast.

Casters suck without heavy CS or APS alt, if I knew it back then when starting to play I'd roll different class.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

150mil won't even get you the weapon.

Deicides 50 mill (refined +5) if you choose BM.
Or around that for r8 for your sin which gives you hard hitting weapon and -0.05 interval via the chest.
The rest (100mill) you can spend on LG cape and some pieces of TT99.

Unlike caster class, you don't need to level up your skills because you only spark and autoattack. Take a look at costs of getting wizard's or psychic's skills just to level 10. If you want to be any useful in PvP that won't be enough anyway, you will need to invest some more in lvl 11 versions of ultis or you'll just massage charms.



Look, I'm not into QQing about anything, just wanted to clarify a couple of things.

Captain Obvious #1: if you cashshop enough you can make any class powerful in PvP.
Captain Obvious #2: it's easier to build decent APS char than decent caster char. APS char pays back in time what've you invested in it, caster char don't.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

The real OP mage class is just the psy. 1v1? You can't touch them with anything unless you want to be silenced every time you try to attack. Stealth? They're prebuffed to begin with. Want to attack? Soul of Retaliation and Soulburn at the right time.

It's just that simple. But a majority of the players here are PvE oriented, and only know that Sins with 5aps are the OP because they can solo bosses easily. PvP-wise, well-geared-and-knowledged-Psys are pretty hard to take down.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

I have no doubt that they will not do a darn thing to mages and psychics damage, any more than they will do anything to 5 aps. Wizard in TW for 30 minutes to 3 hours once (maybe twice) a week? So op.

5 aps farming everything under the sun and solo'ing frostcovered city till level 105 the rest of the hours of the week? hmm, which is op again?

And to the OP?

Shut up and buff me.

Dralighte - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wrong. "Nobody wants you in FC" 90% of FC is the pulls, AOE is absolutely necessary there, and who has the best AOEs? Oh yea, mages and psys.

lol
sorry but 3 sins for DD can do it without problem. I already found MANY squads who ask 2-3 sins in the squad to DD more quickly the boss. Even in FC, the APS is much needed.


+1 to /Groovy/

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary

Dralighte - Harshlands wrote: »

lol
Even in FC, the APS is much needed.


+1 to /Groovy/

No it's not. APS has made people lazy that's all. FCC is childs play and always will be =/.

Dralighte - Harshlands

Alsiadorra - Sanctuary wrote: »

No it's not. APS has made people lazy that's all. FCC is childs play and always will be =/.

still it happens...
I had some problems to find a squad with my psy =w=

Joshcja - Sanctuary

yes groovy mele classes use level 1 skills at endgame pvp

you caught us oh no

Eyeofthtiger - Sanctuary

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This is posting 5 aps barb? Most failure barb build ever?b:chuckleb:chuckle

5Aps barb > 5aps bm
DD wise and in def - self buffed b:bye

VonSabrewulf - Harshlands

rolf you guys fell for it Rawrh is just trolling you guys everythign he said in this thread is an exageration, if you want thruth go outside of west arch and try find anybody other than sins b:chuckle

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver

BulllsEyez - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:shocked Tell me pls your secret , how to get decent aps sin in 150m? b:thanks

150mil gives you:
Rank8 (65mil or so?)
TT99 wrists and boots (15mil and 25mil, roughly)
Lunar cape (45mil)

Total offff 155mil (surely you can spare 5mil)

Gives you a total of 2,5aps sparked. More than enough to perma spark with the use of skills
Easely enough aps to farm the rest of the money in TT

BulllsEyez - Heavens Tear

@Grovy

Unlike caster class, you don't need to level up your skills because you only spark and autoattack. Take a look at costs of getting wizard's or psychic's skills just to level 10. If you want to be any useful in PvP that won't be enough anyway, you will need to invest some more
in lvl 11 versions of ultis or you'll just massage charms.

From where u taking that news? Oo
From your own skillless sin/bm with autoattack only? b:shocked
My magic toons ve all possible skills up to lv and most lv11 skills....

And either my aps toons ve all skills almost all skills 10lv , and half at 11lv.... and i use them b:surrender


Also most my friends ve maxed skills, yeah i met few ppl like 'i ve aps i dont need a brain' but most of them ve skills and using it so dont tell me about skill costs
Do u ve any idea how much costs bm skills? Demon hf, bell, roar, sutra? way more expenisve then magic user skills and lot of ppl ve it b:bye