Nerf mage and psy damage, as well as soulforce

Avriel - Harshlands

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Since everyone loves to Q_Q about 5 aps DDs in their specialty, I decided to make a thread QQing about casters in their specialty.


A mage is incredibly overpowered in TW. You go out in get 72 gold, if you're patient about 50 to 60mil. Then refine to +6 with tienkang and tisha orbs as well as mirages. This is about 10mil. Then you get a 7 star orb for about 15mil. Then get 3 ocean orbs for 30 gold each, they were selling for about 25mil last sale.


Total cost? About 150mil.

The rest? Just leave your rank 8 chest and legs at a decent refine level get some mediocre gears, etc.

You now **** just about everything in TW. You can easily one shot entire groups of people, easily. Just target someone, stand at max range, and cast sage black ice dragon strike. If you aimed well you just killed 10 people, and put yourself at barely any danger. Overpowered.

Have you ever played a mage? Have you ever PVP'd as a mage and gotten gang ***** by 5 aps sins? How may I ask, is a caster supposed to 1 shot a sin who has a skill specifically keeping him from being 1 shot? Not to mention the tele stun which out-ranges every other class. TW is the only thing wizards have left in this game. At least give them that much, since everything else has been swallowed up by this APS obsession.

DISCLAIMER: I read the 1st page, nothing more.

Avriel - Harshlands

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Are you trying to assert that every robe worth a damn in this game are CSers? Because that's a pretty stupid assumption.

Seriously this talk of not getting into Nirvana is a joke, no one would exclude a wiz from Nirvana unless the squad's DD output is ghetto in the first place. Higher-geared squads are more worried about scammers and stupid people than wizards.

Comming from a PVE server. Lol.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Avriel - Harshlands wrote: »

Have you ever played a mage? Have you ever PVP'd as a mage and gotten gang ***** by 5 aps sins? How may I ask, is a caster supposed to 1 shot a sin who has a skill specifically keeping him from being 1 shot? Not to mention the tele stun which out-ranges every other class. TW is the only thing wizards have left in this game. At least give them that much, since everything else has been swallowed up by this APS obsession.

DISCLAIMER: I read the 1st page, nothing more.

Again, stop bringing up "well sins can ____"


Sins are OP, we all know this. APS isn't what makes sins OP, insanely stupid stealth system, ridiculous chi skills, easy ATK levels, and crazy long stun locks is what makes sins OP.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Again, stop bringing up "well sins can ____"


Sins are OP, we all know this. APS isn't what makes sins OP, insanely stupid stealth system, ridiculous chi skills, easy ATK levels, and crazy long stun locks is what makes sins OP.

^ pretty much this

(you left off the 50'% stat dodge <.< >.>)

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Hell an aps built sin isn't really that bad endgame.


Well, ok, it is that bad.

But ya know what's even scarier? A sage sin with full R9 and about 190 attack levels.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

But ya know what's even scarier? A sage sin with full R9 and about 190 attack levels.

Seems to me like such a Sin could wipe out entire squads almost as easily as a mage, really. Between Double Spark, Tangling Mire, Subsea, and Earthen Rift, I do a good enough job at that and I'm just using +7 Hitman Legend with 74 attack levels. Mage has an easier time surviving after wiping out a squad, though, since I'm usually dead before I can force stealth.

Although for Suicide AoEs in TW, I'd really prefer Demon for Demon Wolf Emblem and the increased range on Earthen Rift. Sage may hit harder, but Demon is more likely to hit more people.

Just sayin'.

angellicdeity

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Are you trying to assert that every robe worth a damn in this game are CSers? Because that's a pretty stupid assumption.

Seriously this talk of not getting into Nirvana is a joke, no one would exclude a wiz from Nirvana unless the squad's DD output is ghetto in the first place. Higher-geared squads are more worried about scammers and stupid people than wizards.

For a level 100 archer, I dont know whether you live a sheltered existence in game, or whether your just plain ignorant because you can reach 5.0.


Casters are excluded from almost every PvE instance except abaddon where a boss can only be damaged by magic.

Squads are looking for 4/5 APS sins/BMs. Failing that 4/5 APS archers/barbs. The rest are unwanted except for a veno whose only ability to purge makes them useful still.

Clerics are being replaced by bloodpaint. Clerics have become an alt everyone uses just for buffs nowdays - except in 3-3 where the bosses debuff.



Very few casters farm their gear nowdays. They have to BUY it. The coin either comes from merchanting, cash shopping, or spending 100+ hours farming DQ money. There really is no other method left for them.






AS IT STANDS: 2+ APS class deals more damage than a caster without insane gears and refines. None of which a caster has when looking to farm their gears.

Quilue - Sanctuary

angellicdeity wrote: »

For a level 100 archer, I dont know whether you live a sheltered existence in game, or whether your just plain ignorant because you can reach 5.0.


Casters are excluded from almost every PvE instance except abaddon where a boss can only be damaged by magic.

Squads are looking for 4/5 APS sins/BMs. Failing that 4/5 APS archers/barbs. The rest are unwanted except for a veno whose only ability to purge makes them useful still.

Clerics are being replaced by bloodpaint. Clerics have become an alt everyone uses just for buffs nowdays - except in 3-3 where the bosses debuff.



Very few casters farm their gear nowdays. They have to BUY it. The coin either comes from merchanting, cash shopping, or spending 100+ hours farming DQ money. There really is no other method left for them.






AS IT STANDS: 2+ APS class deals more damage than a caster without insane gears and refines. None of which a caster has when looking to farm their gears.

lol what are you talking about? I run instances with pretty much the highest DDs on the server. Top 5 on Tiger charts, 2 rings in COA, you name it. When it comes to Nirvana, BH, even TT, they don't care SO MUCH that every DD has to be a claw user. In CoA you always need a picker, which is a caster the squad trusts most of the time unless you can't find one. This is what I said and I'll repeat this again:

No one would exclude a wiz from Nirvana unless the squad's DD output is ghetto in the first place

Clerics are just there in 3-3 for the debuffs ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? Oh yes! When Emp AOEs 10k the cleric is just there for purifies. When's the last time you been in 3-3?

Every PvE instance? You mean you can't even do a Seat BH? Get out of here. That just means you have no friends.

grimreaperhc

Don't be mean lady Qui :P
Also, guys, drop the fights.

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

angellicdeity wrote: »

For a level 100 archer, I dont know whether you live a sheltered existence in game, or whether your just plain ignorant because you can reach 5.0.


Casters are excluded from almost every PvE instance except abaddon where a boss can only be damaged by magic.

Squads are looking for 4/5 APS sins/BMs. Failing that 4/5 APS archers/barbs. The rest are unwanted except for a veno whose only ability to purge makes them useful still.

Clerics are being replaced by bloodpaint. Clerics have become an alt everyone uses just for buffs nowdays - except in 3-3 where the bosses debuff.



Very few casters farm their gear nowdays. They have to BUY it. The coin either comes from merchanting, cash shopping, or spending 100+ hours farming DQ money. There really is no other method left for them.






AS IT STANDS: 2+ APS class deals more damage than a caster without insane gears and refines. None of which a caster has when looking to farm their gears.

Exactly.My mage can forget about Nirvana, BH TT,. Sometimes when I answer on WC chat and PM my class just for regular BH I have no answer back or after 5 min. sorry full.b:angry

SeaCrit_Sin - Harshlands

It is pretty funny watching you ppl debate which aspect of this game is broken the most.

Why not stop the fighting and just settle upon one solid answer: This game has no balance.

THE END

b:chuckle

VelvetKiller - Lost City

Melees are DPS, Mages are DPH, that's all. QQing about Mages' DMG? A class 5x more squishy should have higher skills damage, don't ya think? About Psychics' Soulforce, yes, it's powerful weapon, but not the one that can't be beaten. IMHO, APS is more OP than Soulforce, yet it also can be beaten. Everyone's a bit OP at some point, if u wanna call it like that. Every class has advantages and disadvantages. I think 5 APS is a bit OP and non-APS classes have difficulties with finding squad for instances (soon there will be 2 versions of squads: 6x APS char or 6x non-APS char). But I've seen like milion topics "Venos are OP!" "APS is OP!" "Soulforce is OP!" "APS is OP!" "Magic DMG is OP!" "Mystics are OP!" "APS is OP!" "BMs are OP!" Nuff said... some people are like:

1. BMs are so OP because of stunlocking and 5 APS and also Altar Marrows! 15 seconds Movement Immobilize Immune! It's so OP!

2. Wizards can hit for 99kk! It's so OP!

3. Barbs have 99k HP! It's so OP!

4. Venos have Herc! Venos have Nix! They're so OP!

5. Archers have Barrage of Arrows! Archers have Physical & Magical DMG! Archers have 50% Critical! It's so OP!

6. Clerics have so many buffs! If u debuff them, they will Purify! It's too OP!

7. Sins have Stealth! Sins have 5 APS! Sins have 50% Crit! Sins have 2 teleport skills!

8. Psychics have Soulforce! Psychics have Voodoos!

9. Seekers have Ranged Attacks, Melee Attacks, Physical Attacks, Magical Attacks, they're too versatile!

10. Mystics have Pets + Healing + Plants! It's too much for 1 char, they need to be nerfed!

Delete the point about the class the QQer is playing.

</sarcasm>


Debating and a bit of QQ isn't anything terrible, but let's do it wisely, with brain and don't be mad about it.

Quilue - Sanctuary

If you can't even get into BH it's because you don't have enough friends in this game, not because of your class.

I'd like some BM, sin, or archer to come on here and, not as a joke post, say "Oh __ has plenty of friends, we all just exclude her because she's a wizard."

That just doesn't happen.

Haden - Dreamweaver

lol this makes me chuckle, cant we decide one thing to complain about? b:chuckle

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you can't even get into BH it's because you don't have enough friends in this game, not because of your class.

I'd like some BM, sin, or archer to come on here and, not as a joke post, say "Oh __ has plenty of friends, we all just exclude her because she's a wizard."

That just doesn't happen.

I've excluded someone from a party because they're a wizard. But thats also because he wanted to bring his Psychic.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

The only time I've ever excluded someone from nirvana because of his class, was when I told a psychic I needed a high aps DD instead of a psychic......


But I was lying. I ended up taking a mage instead, I just didn't like the guy. And please, real DDs will take any class because they can pull the slack themselves. I have 5.0 aps with windpour nirvana +6 (soon +10, just waiting on an orb sale) with 2 garnet gems. I can afford to bring a caster and still have the run to reasonably quick.

Empu - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seriously this talk of not getting into Nirvana is a joke, no one would exclude a wiz from Nirvana unless the squad's DD output is ghetto in the first place. Higher-geared squads are more worried about scammers and stupid people than wizards.

o.O I'm really wondering if we're playing on the same server...

Maybe in your specific faction it's different (cause they maybe want to keep their casters for TW?), but you should take a look at wc. wc is always asking for APS dd.

Maybe I just go with ghetto squads, cause I'm not awake at tiger event... but most squads go berserk when I want to invite a wizzie/psy/vit-barb/not fist+axe bm. That is what I see when I look around. I don't make illusions, I know at least half of the invites I get are because I'm a sin with +11 rank9 daggers, and not cause I'm "thrustworthy" with cannys.

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

If you can't even get into BH it's because you don't have enough friends in this game, not because of your class.

I'd like some BM, sin, or archer to come on here and, not as a joke post, say "Oh __ has plenty of friends, we all just exclude her because she's a wizard."

That just doesn't happen.

Probably you don't' play anymore. You have no idea how situation really is. The first question when I'm pm them is how much APS I have if I don't tell I'm wizard of course.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Probably you don't' play anymore. You have no idea how situation really is. The first question when I'm pm them is how much APS I have if I don't tell I'm wizard of course.

Then you don't have any friends, If they don't know your class then they obviously aren't your friends.



Back on track...


Aps, WAS, a bit overpowered. Keyword: was.

That is, it was overpowered before jones blessing, rank 8, and rank 9, psys sealing you every 2 hits, 100+ defense levels, etc.

No way in hell it is overpowered anymore.

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

Then you don't have any friends, If they don't know your class then they obviously aren't your friends.



Back on track...


Aps, WAS, a bit overpowered. Keyword: was.

That is, it was overpowered before jones blessing, rank 8, and rank 9, psys sealing you every 2 hits, 100+ defense levels, etc.

No way in hell it is overpowered anymore.

So you always running instances just with friend? don't be fullish pls.b:chuckle

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So you always running instances just with friend? don't be fullish pls.b:chuckle

Yes, yes I am.


All of my TT runs, all of my BH runs, all of my nirvana runs, are done with friends or guild members.

TigerLily - Lost City

I dont even understand why people insist to go NV or TT on a wizard. Cant you even notice yourself how much slower it is with casters/ranged classes in party? Why would you even wanna join a party when you know how low your contribution will be in terms of dmg o.o

Only takes like 3-4 weeks to get a useful pve char to 100 so there is no reason or excuse what so ever to play wizard in NV anymore. If you cant afford to get a decent dps char, just go make a cleric on same acc, they're almost extinct and than you can run as many instances as you like.

For BHs class never mattered much in the first place. If you cant get party for BHs as a caster there is seriously something wrong. Not with the class but with the player. You kinda have to be a total loner, no faction, no friends with the chatt box minimized, to be in that situation.

Normally you just wanna fill party and get the mirages/wine fee and get started with BH100, whoever PMs first gets an invite.

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

I dont even understand why people insist to go NV or TT on a wizard. Cant you even notice yourself how much slower it is with casters/ranged classes in party? Why would you even wanna join a party when you know how low your contribution will be in terms of dmg o.o

Only takes like 3-4 weeks to get a useful pve char to 100 so there is no reason or excuse what so ever to play wizard in NV anymore. If you cant afford to get a decent dps char, just go make a cleric on same acc, they're almost extinct and than you can run as many instances as you like.

For BHs class never mattered much in the first place. If you cant get party for BHs as a caster there is seriously something wrong. Not with the class but with the player. You kinda have to be a total loner, no faction, no friends with the chatt box minimized, to be in that situation.

Normally you just wanna fill party and get the mirages/wine fee and get started with BH100, whoever PMs first gets an invite.

I didn't tell never. It just take longer time and sometimes not time to wait for squad accepting you. I cannot get to BH squad on first wc calling usually. I need to wait for another wc calling and trying.

RawStyIer - Harshlands

Tideborn are broken as hell, said it so many times and yet people start to realize I was rightb:bye

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

I had so much to say, starting with "show me a wiz to solo harpy wraith, and I may believe you". Going to "bms aren't good at pk" and on and on. Then I came upon this post.

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

But they are good in PvP, since you can drop a magic class in a few seconds with 5aps and have more stuns (well for BM and Sins anyway) than most magic classes. b:surrender

Even though I can agree with you with the lower cost to be powerful since 5aps and is WAY more costly than just getting a very powerful gear for a magic class.

But higher cost seems more worth it for 5aps characters since they have more benefits in killing people in PvP easily (especially for sins, since its near impossible a magic class to kill them) , being able to farm everything simplify, and being able to solo just about every boss in the game. Like how Cheze (I think I spelled his name wrong) soloed the most hardest boss in the game, Harpy Wrath. While Magic classes can't solo that many bosses.

So I think QQing over mages being OP is not worth it and I also think people should stop QQing about 5aps since its never going to be removed anyway...

+1000

The only things you missed that I wanted to comment on was

(A) his bit about fast leveling. Leveling as a barb or a bm or even a cleric is easy. As a wiz or psychic? Please. Its not hard for anyone now-a-days (yes, I'm 80 years old) compared to how it used to be, but even now it is MUCH easier for me to get FCC squads on my barb. Much.

(B) he says wizards are great at TW, and while that can be debated vs archers and psychics, I think it is in fact true. But TW is what? if your lucky a few hours each weekend. Often times, it can be 7 minutes each weekend. The rest of the game? We are bored, or leveling alts so we have something to do endgame.

(C) if you are an aps barb, you aren't really built for pk, imo. Thats a boss farming build. The best pk barbs I have seen are ax/poleblade users, 20k hp or gtfo, and know how to stun and charm bypass. So for a barb to qq wiz/psy vs 5 aps is a little weird: Not built for pvp, and no contest imo pve that the barb wins over wiz/psy.

Oh, and I wouldn't mind if they nerfed aps, really, but I don't think its necessary. Add waves of mobs to nirvana without wine, and people will be looking for wizards to kill them off.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

And TW? Not even close, a mage is sitting back one shotting groups of people with no real danger, while a BM is dying repeatedly and hoping to get one stun off before he dies.

(A) spoken like someone not playing a mage in TW; and (B) not if the mage is doing their job right, imo.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

My point is that PvE build/characters have their advantages and disadvantages, and that PvP builds/characters have their advantages and disadvantages. When you made your character you choose how to build your character, if you want PvE then you built a PvE char, if you wanted PvP, you built a PvP char.[/COLOR]

Then why the qq thread? And in terms of pvp, 5 aps can be good, very good in fact, in pvp, just not on a barb. So the qq, which I don't endorse, makes far more sense over 5 aps than over wizards.

brent40

"bms aren't good at pk"

lolwaitwut?

No, only BMs that don't know their class arn't good a PK.... and don't even need to be full "5 APS" to be good at it..

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Minimus_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

There is a problem in general with TW that melees have a disadvantage vs. ranged classes [/COLOR]

Again, assuming this is true, ranged get advantage for 7 minutes a week and change the game? ugh

But, in fact, it isn't true. Now, fist bms, etc may have a disadvantage, but 90% of my deaths on my wiz on sanctuary are to barbs (ty big pun) and bms (ty chrisn). The difference? They not using fists claws to do it.

Build for pvp/TW, or build for pve, or both. But don't qq that the game needs to change because you want a pve build to own in TW/PK, or vice versa.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Sirrobert - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Something tells me most people have NEVER heard of this before, and I actually shoulnd't give away the secret to beating Force of Will

You mean: walk away?

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

CandyCorn - Raging Tide wrote: »

immune pot + genie stun skill + channeling gear...what sin?

Immune pot and genie stun skill have to be used before stun, yes? Hard to do when you are stunned out of stealth.

And channeling gear? b:chuckle

best method I have found against sins is mdef charm (preventing 1 shots from stealth)>get stunned>expel>spam sleep while they spam another stun, hope you win race>if you do, mountain seize or sutra/zooming thunder ms - if you get the 95% chance stun, you outta win - even against alot of rank 9 sins.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Again, assuming this is true, ranged get advantage for 7 minutes a week and change the game? ugh

But, in fact, it isn't true. Now, fist bms, etc may have a disadvantage, but 90% of my deaths on my wiz on sanctuary are to barbs (ty big pun) and bms (ty chrisn). The difference? They not using fists claws to do it.

Build for pvp/TW, or build for pve, or both. But don't qq that the game needs to change because you want a pve build to own in TW/PK, or vice versa.

Wow you totally missed the point of this thread. This was meant to be a parody of all the 5 aps Q_Q threads.


That was the point I was trying to prove, don't QQ when your PvP built character and class doesn't perform well in PvE.


Also:

(C) if you are an aps barb, you aren't really built for pk, imo. Thats a boss farming build. The best pk barbs I have seen are ax/poleblade users, 20k hp or gtfo, and know how to stun and charm bypass. So for a barb to qq wiz/psy vs 5 aps is a little weird: Not built for pvp, and no contest imo pve that the barb wins over wiz/psy.

Wat

Quilue - Sanctuary

Actually a wizard with a good anti-stun genie can put up a very good fight against a skilled BM 1v1.

Also, good claw users do have ~15-20k hp fully buffed, it's just too bad a R9 gush can crit something like 10-14k.