Idea to help improve the APS problem.

Susylu - Heavens Tear

Paramedic - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well, not rly

only real problem i have with ~6k hp archers if there is no sin or bm buff and they have averange pdef for an LA (i.e.+4-5 ref on ornaments)

then healing require some additional effort like, having wellspring surge which heals more than boss hit, spoting main aggro thiefs (2-3 peepz usually) and pre-healing them before aggro switch (timing seal).

not really hard to train that, especially if you run with same ppl

No, it's not hard, but like she posted, not everyone can handle/like being an active cleric. Some squads don't even run with a cleric. And there are more people that just barely hit 5.0 with bad hp and even worse pdef, and if they die, either one, it slows the run down, or defeats the purpose since the boss is dead by the time they're back up. I'd rather have a character that can survive and DD/knows how to contribute with genies & such than a squishy aps character that's gonna die all over the place. What's worse I guess is being able to hit fast but not hard which in the end seems kind of wasted imo too. Then again that's just me.

Well I don't care - I run with the best cleric in the world b:cute

Traz - Dreamweaver

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Barbs don't need to be 5.0 to be useful in a high dps Nirvana squad.

My usual squad runs with a cleric, 2 BM's and 2 Archers, and often a non-5.0 Barb. We typically run faster with the barb than with another BM or Archer. Reasons being, the barb, while not providing much direct DD, greatly enhances the overall DD of the party. Starting off with Titans buff to increase Patt, on to Devour and genie skills to debuff the bosses increasing the damage they take, and even spamming demon HP buff to provide an extra 5% crit boost to everyone (effectively +5% damage).

By using all the tools he has available to the utmost, he provides a huge benefit to the party and is always a welcome addition.

I agree with you completely, but I simply reiterated what the persona of a sage barb now is to most people on the game, which is why so many restated.

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Barbs are usually wanted to an extent for buffs/debuffing.

However, most squads would rather take an -int Barb rather than a non -int Barb.

Edit: I too agree that Sage Barbs will hit a dead end, well....most of them.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Barbs don't need to be 5.0 to be useful in a high dps Nirvana squad.

My usual squad runs with a cleric, 2 BM's and 2 Archers, and often a non-5.0 Barb. We typically run faster with the barb than with another BM or Archer. Reasons being, the barb, while not providing much direct DD, greatly enhances the overall DD of the party. Starting off with Titans buff to increase Patt, on to Devour and genie skills to debuff the bosses increasing the damage they take, and even spamming demon HP buff to provide an extra 5% crit boost to everyone (effectively +5% damage).

By using all the tools he has available to the utmost, he provides a huge benefit to the party and is always a welcome addition.

Well, you really enlightened me, I'm definitely going to do some runs , with people I know of course. I just hope no one missing for certain runs again... lol. Anyways, thank you

@ Known, no 5aps user will be taking my aggro, if it is mine, it is mine. Also sage will never die, ijs.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, you really enlightened me, I'm definitely going to do some runs , with people I know of course. I just hope no one missing for certain runs again... lol. Anyways, thank you

You can't do a level 100 instance, LOL.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You can't do a level 100 instance, LOL.

Future runs, well even if I had a barb at lvl80, Nirvana won't be hard. Pure VIT barbs seem OP to me anyway b:surrender

Abinash - Harshlands

5aps is not a problem

all you guys do is QQ.

And yes if they nurfed my 5 aps i will probably rage quit.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Manakel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can assure you gba boss in 3-1 doesn't have a higher drop rate since the nerf. Did it many times since the nerf and there was often no gba at all or just one.

/facepalm

Nerf = made easier

Before Annipacks came out, the number of mobs in Hwilight Hemple was much higher. This is long before 3-x was made more difficult. This is before your forum join date.

Some said the drop rates got WORSE after all the instances had mobs removed from the instances.

Next time, pay attention.

b:bye

Traz - Dreamweaver

Abinash - Harshlands wrote: »

5aps is not a problem

all you guys do is QQ.

And yes if they nurfed my 5 aps i will probably rage quit.

You and just about every other 5.0 I know has said the same. PWI has some dumb changes, but when it comes to money changes....they aren't that stupid (I hope). b:shutup

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Abinash - Harshlands wrote: »

5aps is not a problem

all you guys do is QQ.

And yes if they nurfed my 5 aps i will probably rage quit.

Uhm, wtf. I have 1-1.43 APS, with spark burst 1, I sneeze on things AND players.

Harshland cash shopping peeps... lol.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

/facepalm

Nerf = made easier

Before Annipacks came out, the number of mobs in Hwilight Hemple was much higher. This is long before 3-x was made more difficult. This is before your forum join date.

Some said the drop rates got WORSE after all the instances had mobs removed from the instances.

Next time, pay attention.

b:bye

*headdesk*

I don't care what was nerfed, 95% of the people on this game NOW said sage barbs are a waste give me a 5.0 instead, thus most barbs gave them what they wanted.

On top of that I wasn't even talking about your post or care what you posted about the "old TT", I was talking to someone elses, maybe you should pay attention.

b:bye

Abinash - Harshlands

i don't cash shop. You don't even belong to harshland so how can u just judge that i am a hardcore CSer ?

Anything ingame is possible to achieve without CS just takes a little more time than CSing.

people who CS just think it is not possible.

Probably next QQ will be i don't have life. But i did all this by playing like 5-6 hrs a day.

Mitachi - Dreamweaver

Aps will never be nerfed, pwi makes too much money with 5apsb:cute i should know, bro charged 250gold to afford +8 deicidesb:surrender

Valirah - Sanctuary

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Barbs are usually wanted to an extent for buffs/debuffing.

However, most squads would rather take an -int Barb rather than a non -int Barb.

Edit: I too agree that Sage Barbs will hit a dead end, well....most of them.

To my experience, the debuff barb will outperform the typical -int barb who just full on attacks.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*headdesk*

I don't care what was nerfed, 95% of the people on this game NOW said sage barbs are a waste give me a 5.0 instead, thus most barbs gave them what they wanted.

On top of that I wasn't even talking about your post or care what you posted about the "old TT", I was talking to someone elses, maybe you should pay attention.

b:bye

I guess I'm as much of an idiot as you. I quoted the wrong person. However, you also failed to notice that too. How the hell did my response even have anything to do with what you said? Good job. At least I don't have to feel stupid alone.

b:chuckle

b:bye

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Abinash - Harshlands wrote: »

i don't cash shop. You don't even belong to harshland so how can u just judge that i am a hardcore CSer ?

Anything ingame is possible to achieve without CS just takes a little more time than CSing.

people who CS just think it is not possible.

Probably next QQ will be i don't have life. But i did all this by playing like 5-6 hrs a day.

K, reinforcements then. No way you cannot achieve 5 aps without one or all of those 3 ways of getting them.

It also could be reinforcements from the tree branch of a hardcore CSer? Faction or friend or whatever.

Then again you are a BM at least, fists are fine on a BM b:pleased\

@ Mitachi ... holy ....

Sekmeth - Raging Tide

Maybe instead of "nerfing" a new set of lvl 100 skills for all classes could balance this

Also i see many seeing 5 aps a problem in pve? how is that? doesn't killing faster benefit all? Only problem would be soloing high level TTs and flooding the market with mats (though that would benefit more people than would hurt).

Also people getting 5APS is a major driving factor behind cash shop sale and yeah cash shop keeps the game free for everyone else, it's only normal that if you want to be on top fast (w/o that much time spend in game or playing skills for some too) you spend real money. Nerfing it would hurt sale, unless they put new exciting items that get other classes OP and just moving the problem elsewere.

My conclusion would be: try to adapt to the game and don't try to change the game cause it doesn't suite your playing style All free games are like this these days and it's what makes them keep going.

Abinash - Harshlands

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You can't do a level 100 instance, LOL.

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Uhm, wtf. I have 1-1.43 APS, with spark burst 1, I sneeze on things AND players.

Harshland cash shopping peeps... lol.

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

K, reinforcements then. No way you cannot achieve 5 aps without one or all of those 3 ways of getting them.

It also could be reinforcements from the tree branch of a hardcore CSer? Faction or friend or whatever.

Then again you are a BM at least, fists are fine on a BM b:pleased\

@ Mitachi ... holy ....

your statement shows that u are not worth being a BM !

at lower level BM is next to generating coins than a herc veno and at end game BM is the best. If you don't know how to do it. Then try your techinique "Faction or Friends or Whatever". b:bye All i got was with my own effort.

Now back to topic. : I don't want 5 aps to be nurfed .

Knownase - Heavens Tear

I know a few -int users who got 4.0+ without CSing. Point is, its doable without CSing. I am proud to say that I got my 4.0 aps without CSing. I can get 5.0 in a week or so if there wasn't other important things to get......

Learn2merch/farm. b:cute

Traz - Dreamweaver

Abinash - Harshlands wrote: »

your statement shows that u are not worth being a BM !

at lower level BM is next to generating coins than a herc veno and at end game BM is the best. If you don't know how to do it. Then try your techinique "Faction or Friends or Whatever". b:bye All i got was with my own effort.

Now back to topic. : I don't want 5 aps to be nurfed .

Depending on the gear and skills of the player, you can easily make a case for a sin to be the best. b:shutup

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Abinash - Harshlands wrote: »

your statement shows that u are not worth being a BM !

at lower level BM is next to generating coins than a herc veno and at end game BM is the best. If you don't know how to do it. Then try your techinique "Faction or Friends or Whatever". b:bye All i got was with my own effort.

Now back to topic. : I don't want 5 aps to be nurfed .

I generate coins just fine, to the point of not even needing coins. Does not equate of "knowing how to do it" as you say, when it costs like almost 400 mil? for unrefined/shard. I must have been killing mobs in the wrong spot???

Guess what? You don't want 5 APS to be nerfed because you like the power in your hands, no different from a veno having the herc/nix. It won't be nerfed anytime soon either, regardless of it killing the fun in the game at 100, which is why I rather be under lvl 100 where things are not boring.

Kniraven - Lost City

I was bored during maintenance and read this thread. Here is my response in summary.

Wizards > All in TW (imo).

5.0 DDs > All on Bosses.

Clerics = Needed in most instances for most people.

Archers = Still pretty damned amazing in world pvp if played right (imo).

Venos = have met their match imo when a sin gets involved, but are still pretty damned tough with their nix and purge.

Barbarians = Protector of the squishy fishies in NV. I can't tell you how often my 4.0 - 5.0 Sin buddies get random aggro'd and die cuz they have no p.def or hp. Devour is also amazing in NV parties and so are Barb buffs for when you have a cleric with miserable hp and you want your 5.0 DD's to hit harder. I've also come to the belief that having a Barb spam devour is better than having a barb stand there and hit at 5.0.

5.0 DD's are unbalanced as all hell in PvE, but in PvP interval is sometimes something thats just necessary to get by. I can't tell you how often i get told interval is BS or its haz when i occult some robe user and auto attack them to death before stun ends.

Thats what genies are for. Get domain, or something else useful. I don't start flipping out how unbalanced wizards are when im walking along full buffed and out of nowhere a big blue dragon flys down and hits me for 28k =_= (I really need to check my T menu and watch map more often)

oh
and P.S. >___> Wow Michael you're a doosh in some of these posts lol.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

and P.S. >___> Wow Michael you're a doosh in some of these posts lol.

Why thank you. I know I'm an ****, but my logic is sound. b:kiss

Abinash - Harshlands

Kniraven i still love your signature

Moerten - Lost City

Im reading this topic and I will say something that I guess most of the ppl dont even try to realise.

What is the difference between -int and -chan in pve and pvp?

Imagine You have 1bil coins and You wanna make a pve character. Lets say You make a wizard - You buy scroll of tome (-1% channeling), make hh99 wrists (-6% channeling) and boots (-3% channeling for 2 items bonus) , nirvana pants (-3% channeling), get rank 4 chest (-3% channeling), 2 cv rings (2 x -3% channeling) and some belt and neck with channeling too (ofc I know some ornaments can be -9% channeling, but let it be also -6% channeling each) and nv wand (-10% channeling). You make a wizard that have really high -channeling, like -44% channeling (it will increase while 3 sparked - for the lulz trying to compare with -int chars). Does it help You in farming? Ofc a little bit. Now try to compare that with a BM/Sin with same kind of gears and using same ammount of money for it. You get 5 aps, You dont have to use any skills just normal attacks (while magic users have to cast spells, use mp, etc). I thought the purpose is to make characters more balanced. I find the idea to decrease bosses magic defence as a good idea, just because of it.

Now same example in pvp - You put a wizard and bm in front of each other. As Michael_Dark mentioned he need close to 10 hits to kill an AA user without sparking and with normal attacks which is 2-3 seconds. Do You think channeling will be equal to interval in pvp considering none will use seal, stuns and both have same value items?

With all honesty -int chars are currently OP in this game. Im saying this as a guy who made a sin for pve/farming purpose and have a wizard too. Ofc I could be a guy qqing here and asking to nerf the int, because it makes my wizard feel useless and feel the game is unbalanced, but I prefered to roll a sin for pve purpose. Anyway I still feel bad for ppl that play wizards, psychics, even eas, eps and venos for been less and less needed in pve. I take the game how it is, but I still can have my opinion that its far to be just and fair.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Barbarians = Protector of the squishy fishies in NV. I can't tell you how often my 4.0 - 5.0 Sin buddies get random aggro'd and die cuz they have no p.def or hp. Devour is also amazing in NV parties and so are Barb buffs for when you have a cleric with miserable hp and you want your 5.0 DD's to hit harder. I've also come to the belief that having a Barb spam devour is better than having a barb stand there and hit at 5.0.

5.0 DD's are unbalanced as all hell in PvE, but in PvP interval is sometimes something thats just necessary to get by. I can't tell you how often i get told interval is BS or its haz when i occult some robe user and auto attack them to death before stun ends.

oh
and P.S. >___> Wow Michael you're a doosh in some of these posts lol.

This post makes a lot of sense, so barbs AREN'T useless in Nirvana, I just knew it. I never had a tough time in duels on any class, without genies.

Also I do believe a 5.0 bm / sin will just own the game in pvp from what I seen the PK fights. A decent player will control the field. If the person is stun locked, it is over for them.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

This post makes a lot of sense, so barbs AREN'T useless in Nirvana, I just knew it. I never had a tough time in duels on any class, without genies.

Also I do believe a 5.0 bm / sin will just own the game in pvp from what I seen the PK fights. A decent player will control the field. If the person is stun locked, it is over for them.

Duel != PKing sunshine, especially when it comes to the mass ganking in TWs. 5.0 doesn't mean **** if you have 3 archers and 2 wizards light you up for a nap.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Moerten - Lost City wrote: »

Imagine You have 1bil coins and You wanna make a pve character. Lets say You make a wizard - You buy scroll of tome (-1% channeling), make hh99 wrists (-6% channeling) and boots (-3% channeling for 2 items bonus) , nirvana pants (-3% channeling), get rank 4 chest (-3% channeling), 2 cv rings (2 x -3% channeling)

A couple of mistakes here...

First would be getting Scroll of Tome for a wizard. Scroll of Tome would pay for a +12 orb. 250m for -1% channeling is lame. Use that to refine a Nirvana weapon higher, it will be far more beneficial.

Lunar rings are -6% channeling not -3%.

Now same example in pvp - You put a wizard and bm in front of each other. As Michael_Dark mentioned he need close to 10 hits to kill an AA user without sparking and with normal attacks which is 2-3 seconds. Do You think channeling will be equal to interval in pvp considering none will use seal, stuns and both have same value items?

I guess you've never faced Elayne, Yali, Ehee, Amour, Haiz, Ayla, Stupidity, etc.. or any other Rank 8 or G15 Nirvana wizard with +12 weapons in TW or PvP.

Mages are just as broken in PvP and TW as 5 aps is in PvE.

Even mages are afraid of other mages in TW, more than any other class.

Magicsaber - Dreamweaver

Level_Name___________________Weap. Attack Phys.attack * APS
100_☆☆Fists of the Monarch Mind_915,5_________1309,165
80_☆☆Arch Devil's Touch (80)____1293_________1848,99
80_☆Soulmessenger Fists________471__________2355


For all above weapon 1,43 attacks per second is default.

Let think, that last weapon used with 5 attacks per second.

Then it will be more powerful than Warsoul or rank weapon ?

Traz - Dreamweaver

Michael_Dark - Lost City wrote: »

Mages are just as broken in PvP and TW as 5 aps is in PvE.

Bingo was his name-o.

All classes have their strong points, it just seems every APS thread turns into all of them wanting to be equal in PvE, but I'm sorry that's just not going to happen. Learn to enjoy the strong points of your class, and reroll if you want to have different strong points.