I am going to say my piece and be done...
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Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »Have you...actually done nirvana since they made those changes? It's not really much harder, just takes a bit longer.
yes but still. Why change something that wasnt broken (DQ TT nirvana TW)0 -
GreatStorm - Sanctuary wrote: »okay so what are we suppose to do? PM them? I said in another thread and I will say it again. Lets play a game. PM frankie and see how long/even if he PMs u back. Over/Under 2 months. Yes i might not get them to change it but, why not say "hey this is how TT is. This is how TT will be end of discussion." instead they still have the TT discussion up for some strange reason? You know why? They want to hide the QQ so they dont have to read it. I have read the entire TT discussion can frankie REALLY say he did the same? Or the TW discussion or the DQ discussion. That is suppose to be his job. He is suppose to be our life line to the GMs that is what spoons said the CM job is/was. Spoons was always happy to ask the devs question cause it made the community happy even if we get the answer we wasnt looking for. It isnt that we want to be right. we just want to be talked to like people, not be shunned like a red headed step child who gets nothing and is told to like it..
Sorry for hte wall of textKatzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »While I agree that "flaming the **** out of Frankie" will not change anything, we still have to complain verbally about it. Because there are still those of us who haven't charged ZEN for ages, if ever. And there are so many people who DON'T visit the forums, who will continue to charge ZEN, because they don't know of our struggle. How many lower-level players are charging ZEN right now, and don't even know that the higher leveled TTs are "broken", Nirvana is "broken", random bugs haven't been fixed in various places? They wouldn't know, because a great many players don't visit the forums.
So, even if those of us on the forums stop charging, and that's it, it's not going to make a difference. We still need to complain (as well as stop charging), and complain loudly, til we're heard.
To correct a misconception you two had, it was never iterated by me that you shouldn't complain at all, to Frankie, or on the forums. I just said for the last few posts that's what his job is, as an intermediary between you and the developers, is to field complaints that you have with the game. It's the extra pissiness behind your tone, flaming him, and ****, over these issues he can't solve alone, which is way over the top. Hopefully there's nothing lost in translation on this part. It seems expectations from an F2P are exaggeratedly high.
I also want to cover GreatStorm's post concerning stickying something at the top. It's well known why this is done, and it's done nearly everywhere. It's because they want discussion in one place, instead of spamming the living **** out of the forums with topics, if it's all about one specific topic. If they have bothered stickying the topic concerning an issue like rubber banding or TW changes or w/e, in all likelihood, they are aware of the issue and guaranteed have forwarded the views of a prominent amount of players to the developers. A decent community manager usually won't allow a ton of topics of the very same thing to go on, because that strangles discussion of, well, anything else. If people want to voice their anger, there's an obvious topic for it, and I'm sure 5,000 posts later it's established it's a big deal.0 -
JanusZeal, you're right about the reasons for stickying topics, but you're missing the point of the criticism thereof. Because the GMs rarely say anything in those stickies, it really starts to look like they just make the sticky and then leave it alone.
How often do we actually get a "wow, look at all of this criticism, we're passing it on to devs and will update you soon." The few times we've heard something like that (DQ prices, for example), did we ever get an update?0 -
Katzyn - Sanctuary wrote: »Yeah, a lot of my guildies don't read the forums, so they didn't know about the TT issues, either...Nor the lack of maintenance in the past couple of weeks, etc.
hmmm........GMs? how about send mass in game mail with patch notes in them to let everyone know what they are downloading[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
There was no excuse for that. In TW's case, they could simply have it so as soon as one faction took the map it resets with any faction having the ability to get some land. That is more logical than changing it to mirages.GreatStorm - Sanctuary wrote: »yes but still. Why change something that wasnt broken (DQ TT nirvana TW)
Making instances harder was a horrible change because it shows laziness where making people work that much more for the same reward is going to **** them off, and it shows their priorities of adding weight to a grinding/farming player's back instead of fixing friggen bugs or adding new content to suggest the game is going anywhere forward.
I'm sure most agree with you, and I'm sure most agree with me, it's the way it's being handled which is way out of control, and beyond the normal service-based incompetence we've seen, you shouldn't expect any GM/CM to continue commenting on an issue they gave updates to and cannot do anything further about. That expectation is very unrealistic.
Check this out...Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »JanusZeal, you're right about the reasons for stickying topics, but you're missing the point of the criticism thereof. Because the GMs rarely say anything in those stickies, it really starts to look like they just make the sticky and then leave it alone.
How often do we actually get a "wow, look at all of this criticism, we're passing it on to devs and will update you soon." The few times we've heard something like that (DQ prices, for example), did we ever get an update?
Are these not updates? Are these not saying the devs will know? What am I missing? Do you just not like the frequency he is telling you things? That is on the developers, not him.frankieraye wrote: »Hey guys,
Please discuss Twilight Temple changes from the most recent patch here.
Thanks!
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Update
We've spoken with the devs and they've agreed to remove the 4 hour time limit from TT.
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Update 2 (8-20-2010)
in regards to RedsRose post
We'll test this, and if it turns out to work the way you've described (meaning that the boss acts the same way regardless of kill count), we'll submit this to the devs and see what's going on.
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Update 3
The Mob Counter was indeed not functioning correctly, and it was subsequently fixed.
The time limit has been increased to 8 hours as well.0 -
gonna show u how much of a big deal it is o frankie
Twilight Temple Discussion - 08-19-2010
Last updates 8-20-2010
DQ Discussion 05-28-2010
Last Updates N/A(No GM response from 7-03 on)
TW discussion 08-06-2010
Last Update N/A his updates have no dates on them so guessing hours after the fact?0 -
I wish we could just get mods who understand the game...
I mean the guy who runs PW Wiki is a level 70...0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »There was no excuse for that. In TW's case, they could simply have it so as soon as one faction took the map it resets with any faction having the ability to get some land. That is more logical than changing it to mirages.
Making instances harder was a horrible change because it shows laziness where making people work that much more for the same reward is going to **** them off, and it shows their priorities of adding weight to a grinding/farming player's back instead of fixing friggen bugs or adding new content to suggest the game is going anywhere forward.
I'm sure most agree with you, and I'm sure most agree with me, it's the way it's being handled which is way out of control, and beyond the normal service-based incompetence we've seen, you shouldn't expect any GM/CM to continue commenting on an issue they gave updates to and cannot do anything further about. That expectation is very unrealistic.
Check this out...
Are these not updates? Are these not saying the devs will know? What am I missing? Do you just not like the frequency he is telling you things? That is on the developers, not him.
I get what ur saying BUT. Look at the dates. If you cant tell us anything for a month(or 5 in the case of DQ) something is fishy. We want to know what is going on the former CM without giving MASS details did that not saying give us weekly updates, but posting in the threads to show u actually care is a good start. I guess to be CM u have to not care about the community since.....nvm b:shutup0 -
What is he supposed to say?GreatStorm - Sanctuary wrote: »I get what ur saying BUT. Look at the dates. If you cant tell us anything for a month(or 5 in the case of DQ) something is fishy. We want to know what is going on the former CM without giving MASS details did that not saying give us weekly updates, but posting in the threads to show u actually care is a good start. I guess to be CM u have to not care about the community since.....nvm b:shutup
Update: 9-27-10
No updates from the developers
Update: 9-28-10
No updates from the developers
Update: 9-29-10
No updates from the developers
Update: 9-30-10
No updates from the developers
Would he hide it if the developers got back to him? Think about it..
Your obvious beef is with the developers. Frankie cannot make them move faster than they currently do because that division is the one who pays his salary. It's akin to telling your boss to move their ***.0 -
A bit more backbone to stand up for this version and its community.
A bit more paw action on the keyboard to keep us updated, tell us what's going on, what's coming up, responding to our questions, ideas, concerns etc on stickies and so forth.0 -
I think people were more irritated about the TT changes to bosses in 3-x than they were about the 4 hour limit. Also, where is the "compensation" about DQ that was promised however long ago?
I'm not going to praise any GM for doing his job well some of the time; I'm certainly going to complain if he doesn't do it well most of the time.0 -
Which is why they are not going to answer every single complaint. Case in point.Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think people were more irritated about the TT changes to bosses in 3-x than they were about the 4 hour limit. Also, where is the "compensation" about DQ that was promised however long ago?
I'm not going to praise any GM for doing his job well some of the time; I'm certainly going to complain if he doesn't do it well most of the time.
They're rightfully getting lambasted about ****-ups, but flaming Frankie because he can't post updates regarding TT or bug fixes and all that faster than developers give it to him is really pissing on the wrong fire hydrant.0 -
Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »I think people were more irritated about the TT changes to bosses in 3-x than they were about the 4 hour limit. Also, where is the "compensation" about DQ that was promised however long ago?
I'm not going to praise any GM for doing his job well some of the time; I'm certainly going to complain if he doesn't do it well most of the time.
Am I the only one that remembers having a 2x everything event RIGHT after the DQ change? Thought that was the damn compensation.I
AGOREY0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Am I the only one that remembers having a 2x everything event RIGHT after the DQ change? Thought that was the damn compensation.
So did everybody else until Frankie stated that the 2x event was not the compensation.
And yes, he did say that, and I remember him clearly saying it. Feel free to go find the post.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Am I the only one that remembers having a 2x everything event RIGHT after the DQ change? Thought that was the damn compensation.
It wasn't.0 -
Is it? Do we have ANY reason to believe that said "fixes" are anywhere near arriving? All we have are guesses and speculation. Until recently, we've had server maintenance every week. Would it be so difficult for a GM to make a post on forums, every week, giving the current status of those issues? Even if it was "we're still waiting to ehar from devs" across the board, at least we would know that someone is listening.
After a month or two of "waiting to hear from devs," we could start asking the GMs to maybe apply some more pressure, as people are starting to get irritated... Instead we have silence. Week after week.
There is no reason for a GM not to post in every sticky at least once a week with some sort of update, even if that update is "i got nuthin'"
Edit: my post directed at JanusZeal's. need faster fingers/brain0 -
Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »Is it? Do we have ANY reason to believe that said "fixes" are anywhere near arriving? All we have are guesses and speculation. Until recently, we've had server maintenance every week. Would it be so difficult for a GM to make a post on forums, every week, giving the current status of those issues? Even if it was "we're still waiting to ehar from devs" across the board, at least we would know that someone is listening.
After a month or two of "waiting to hear from devs," we could start asking the GMs to maybe apply some more pressure, as people are starting to get irritated... Instead we have silence. Week after week.
There is no reason for a GM not to post in every sticky at least once a week with some sort of update, even if that update is "i got nuthin'"
This.0 -
GreatStorm - Sanctuary wrote: »DQ Discussion 05-28-2010
Last Updates N/A(No GM response from 7-03 on)
Just to correct you on this one:
09-08-2010, 05:36 PMfrankieraye wrote: »It's in development. I cannot give you anything more specific than this.
09-21-2010, 04:12 PMfrankieraye wrote: »Still being worked on, thank you for all your patience
09-28-2010, 05:06 PMfrankieraye wrote: »I disagree, and I can assure you that the compensation initiative is still alive and well, though in the middle of the process that these things have to go through.
b:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Alas, I got some news, if this is your expectations, there is not a single, decent F2P with a decent population that is going to please you.Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »Is it? Do we have ANY reason to believe that said "fixes" are anywhere near arriving? All we have are guesses and speculation. Until recently, we've had server maintenance every week. Would it be so difficult for a GM to make a post on forums, every week, giving the current status of those issues? Even if it was "we're still waiting to ehar from devs" across the board, at least we would know that someone is listening.
After a month or two of "waiting to hear from devs," we could start asking the GMs to maybe apply some more pressure, as people are starting to get irritated... Instead we have silence. Week after week.
There is no reason for a GM not to post in every sticky at least once a week with some sort of update, even if that update is "i got nuthin'"
They can NOT apply more pressure to the developers. They can ask, they can plead, they can continuously report the troubles they have, they can give updates when they feel comfortable about attempting to initiate change with the developers as Frankie has on occasion. The developers work in China, and are, on the corporate tree of importance, way above GM's, likely in the same building as those who can directly fire every single person in the American branch(es) if they wanted to. Again, tell your boss or someone higher up than you on the corporate chain to hurry it up and see how long you last.
People would in fact whine even more if on a daily or weekly basis Frankie's updates comprised of:
Waiting on the developers to update
Waiting on the developers to update
Waiting on the developers to update
There is, and I repeat again, nothing, that Frankie can do about the crappy and shoddy development of the game, and in most cases, the best response is no response, lest he put his foot in his mouth. The only way to speed it up is for the community to stop spending money on the game. Frankie is an easy and convenient target for your assertions, but again, pissing on the wrong fire hydrant.0 -
Awkward b:sad0
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Chillum - Dreamweaver wrote: »Just to correct you on this one:
09-08-2010, 05:36 PM
09-21-2010, 04:12 PM
09-28-2010, 05:06 PM
hmm very well sir I retract my argument from the DQ0 -
So wait, what are we all complaining about then? Just the mod thing?0
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It's a bandwagon thing. You just jump on. b:surrenderTojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »So wait, what are we all complaining about then? Just the mod thing?0 -
@ Long Then again, even under x2 drop GBA boss has still dropped nothing in 3 runs in a row (then magically drops like 3 >__> stupid boss lol) And yes I remember that DQ "compensation" in the form of x2 drop but the whole point was that people felt as if they were giving the flying finger to those who actually was present at their screens grinding as opposed to farmers/botters being rampant in other versions. That and the fact that non paying players felt a bit shafted about the whole affair inadvertently telling them that grinding for money to spend in the gold market or spending it to fuel the economy wasn't the way to do it and that it was leaning towards a CSer friendly world. But I dont want to really go there on that, as it would derail this thread into the lower depths faster than people asking for bans.
@ Janus-which is why usually in those threads I've resorted to calmly continuing my feedback here and there after my freak out posts about 3-2 Emp XD Now, my real only beef just comes from how people are getting treated by mod statements and how some of Grim's policing makes no sense *points to a thread where he brings up the rule about not talking about competing MMO's including other versions of PW* b:surrender that makes every single time someones referenced China/Malaysia versions a chance of getting their posts edited (if Im reading that rule right
) >< which reminds me, has that rule ever been actively enforced or is it just me that they now start enforcing it? Threads get depth'd so fast, locked, deleted and people banned that my head spins.
And really, I usually thank the GMs when they do post an update so long as in the same breath dont call me nitpicking or insult me in any other way. Which usually isn't the case
So I would say just because one person doesn't feel that they should thank the GM's for update however small doesn't mean that other people don't. I just wish that the devs would be less vague and/or restrictive on the GM's. Tamias-
The Dealer at your service b:cute0 -
Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »So wait, what are we all complaining about then? Just the mod thing?
1 What Kanto said and how a lot of us took it
2 how frankie tried to hide konari(yea I misspelled it) was gonna be a mod on his alt and lied about it
3 how the mods acted (see image in my sig) at first and how they was picked(one being a spammer that well said stuff that would be more suited for a pron site, and another girl who would rather be on the FW forums then these forums basically leaving us with a spammer as a mod0 -
Ah, ok. Right then...QQQQQQQQQb:angry0
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Tojop - Dreamweaver wrote: »Ah, ok. Right then...QQQQQQQQQb:angry
b:chuckle Those are mine some may have different reasons I have a 4th but due to rules I wont say what it is0 -
Tamias - Archosaur wrote: »@ Long Then again, even under x2 drop GBA boss has still dropped nothing in 3 runs in a row (then magically drops like 3 >__> stupid boss lol) And yes I remember that DQ "compensation" in the form of x2 drop but the whole point was...
See wtf is this? This is where people are ridiculous. "Ya but I had bad luck dat week!!1! stupid frankie, all frankie's fault!!" WHAT THE HELL?? That trash shouldn't come up in any thread.
As for the DQ drop reduction, do you really think the devs thought "mwahahahaha, let's reduce DQ prices and ruin the game that puts food on our tables?" Hell no, they did it cause they felt it was important, just like how the government will tax people when they feel it's important. The government doesn't think "we should tax people to be jerks," they think "if we tax everyone a small portion, then we can pay for this great program that will benefit everyone without any one individual having to pay a ton just to make it happen." PWE doesn't think "we should do this to be jerks," they think "we believe this will ensure economic stability in the future."
And you know what? The devs have made an impressively stable economy in this game thusfar. I'd love to see another MMO with an even more stable economy. For this reason, I dunno why everyone screams "omg stupid devs don't know what they're doing. I, 14-year-old random So-and-So, am obviously an economic expert and I know how to balance our game and they're idiots for not listening to me." The only legit complaint in here is that we got a change made in China that wasn't at all individualized for our version, and as I've said before, show me one god damn MMO company that does that. They ALL take this same damn shortcut.I AGOREY0 -
The lack of updates on popular issues is still an argument with some traction. Janus, you're oversimplifying the problem. The fact that updates technically exist does not mean that they are satisfactory proof that he's doing his job properly.
With minor changes, most of his updates are just the same thing copy-pasted over again. Even if he has nothing new to tell us, he does need to write out his posts and empathize with us. You see, that's the fundamental ingredient that's missing. Usually we get something like this:
...oh, oh, oh, and if we're lucky, sometimes we even get this!:Sorry, still working this out with the devs. We'll let you know an answer as soon as it becomes available.
(EDIT: These are not actual quotes from Frankie. But come on, you could be mistaken for thinking they are. -_-)We understand that many players are upset about this, and we are working on finding a solution ASAP.
Those are stock lines. We know they're stock lines. It's obvious.
Where is the individuality? Where is the sense that we're not being fed a sheet of paper from a robot programmed to keep us placated? Where is the evidence that Frankie genuinely reads the threads and gives some measure of independent thought and compassion to them? This isn't compassion. This is business-speak.
Compassion came naturally to Spoons. I have yet to see Frankie master it.
But all that being said!... As I said in an earlier post, which seemed to be ignored... every time Frankie makes an update post, it's received warmly, even if it's a stock line. He should have no fear of this foot-in-mouth scenario of which you speak.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]
Other Active Characters:
LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).0 -
JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »
People would in fact whine even more if on a daily or weekly basis Frankie's updates comprised of:
Waiting on the developers to update
Waiting on the developers to update
Waiting on the developers to update
I agree with you on most of what you've said, except this - I think that even though people would still be annoyed that nothing was actively being done where we could see it, people would appreciate the weekly updates, even if it was simply to say "I don't have anything to tell you this week, but we're still working on it". All his previous updates have said pretty much the same, but most replies (that are on-topic) are "hey, thanks for the update". I see no reason for that to change, especially if he started updating more frequently, which is what people so often complain about.Katzyn, level 101 Demon Veno
Kylenea, level 99 Demon Cleric
ForestSonata, level 6x Mystic
Proud wifeh of Yudai
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Courtesy of the amazing Forsakenx~0
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