I am going to say my piece and be done...

RedsRose - Lost City

This entire thing has saddened me. I am sure you know what I am talking about as you attempt to douse the flames of the fire that you all started.

As the flames burn on, I would like to point a few things out that you may or may not already know. However, in light of recent events I think that hearing this (from one of your most active forum members) might help to make you better understand where people are coming from.

First, the PW section of PWI Games has ALWAYS been largely neglected It has been the players in THIS community that have often been the ones to police their own forums. It has worked and in some cases it has not worked. However, we have done well considering the lack of "care" as so many would call it.

Secondly, the community looks to the GM's to be a safe-guard, a trusting member of the actual PWI staff to whom they can go too if needed. You frankie, I am sorry to say, have never really connected with this community in a way that (imo) you should have. This results in a skeptical view and a reluctance to trust. Any resemblance of trust that was there or even left for some was shattered with the Konra thing. Konra is first and fore-most my friend, and I talked with him for a LONG time yesterday. Once I saw his post I immediately pm'd him on msn because it is all to obvious it was him. A poor choice for him and a poor choice for you imo. You tried to trick a community, one in which is smarter then maybe you all might think. I told Konra and I am telling you that this was a terrible move.

Thirdly, I am admin of 2 forums and currently mod 4 and I can tell you this forum is sadly not done well in either respect. There is no consistency, there is no set way, there is no 100% cut and dry way that it is dealt with. You bring in mod's that are qq'ers and spammers and expect the community to welcome them with open arms = no. Additionally you bring in those that know little about the current changes and how they affect the community because they themselves have never experienced these changes first hand. It seems to much of the community that it is those who kiss-butt that become mod's rather then those that are consistent and trusted within the entire community. The PW community that is, one that, saying this again, has been over-looked for a LONG time.

Fourth, along with the overlooking of these PW forums, the mod's tend to be NOT in the U.S. meaning that during much of the forums peak times, there is no one but you attempting (and not really doing) to watch the forums. Lately, I have often stopped reading these forums because based on title before even opening the thread I KNOW it should be closed. I should not have to PM you nor the mod's at every turn. When I left these forums, I began posting on a alt to just linger and see. Then when Konra became mod (tbh I was not 100% on that either) I was more active because I was helping and feeding him with the threads he needed to focus on. I came back on Rose because he ASKED me too in order to help him.

I know many that know these forums and know these forums and this community WELL. However, the "leaving" (*cough*You know what I mean by this*cough*) of Aryanna and the attempted lie and the Mod appointments has ONCE AGAIN shattered this community. It is sickening and disheartening. At what damn point will the CM's LOOK AND LISTEN to the community. JUST ONCE FFS!! All we are asking for is a voice. Maybe a voice like Spoon's or even Dvork was an amazing CM here.

Step up and LISTEN to the community!! What is done now is done and it is just...I don't even.

You are "forcing" out once again a HUGE part of the community that has been here and been honest and supported and LOVED THESE DAMN FORUMS. Even if the game is going to hell for many and even if they have stopped playing the game THEY ARE HERE ON THE FORUMS!! That has to tell you something about this damn community.

Take all of this or leave it but the fact is people are fed up. People are pissed. People are hurt. People no longer trust (with what little they has left).


From the community:

For heaven's sake, FOR ONCE look and listen to your community. We no longer sit and have decent discussions. We are kept in the dark, unless some of us research and seek the info ourselves. We no longer care. We DON'T trust!!! If that does not make you sit and ponder and wonder then maybe it is all worthless and pointless to even attempt to help others here.

Shouldn't the current state of these forums tell you anything? Anything? How the hell could you not think this would not happen? You have thrown the community into a damn uproar!!

And tbh I feel slightly sorry for the new mod's because they just DO NOT KNOW THESE FORUMS!! Yes I said it and I will again, THEY DO NOT!! I or about 10+ people can and WILL go toe-to-toe with them on navigating these forums, finding posts, seeing necro's just by the title...THESE are things I worked so hard with with Konra and he was getting it. The new ones have A LOT TO LEARN. And I am sorry, this time, I WILL NOT help and tbh I am not sure anyone will. Sorry frankie but your community know these forums better then even you. When we have to PM you threads that are dangerous or necro's etc...You know what I mean.

I don't even at this point...and tbh neither does much of the community.

Sincerely,

An always loyal member of this community and now I just do not know...

Rose

Deora - Lost City

inb4 they ban you for speaking out

SweetHope - Raging Tide

Alright, I'm sure you guys can all figure out who I am.
So I'll start off with this.

I know I was trolling and flaming and spamming.
I'm angry.
But this is the one post I'll do thats not any of that.
This is probably going to be my first (and probably last) legitimate post.

We're all raging.
All of us are raging for different reasons.
I myself am angry at PWE but I can't just go up to the head quarters and yell at them.
So who can we fight?
Frankie and his new moderators.

Yes, I do admit, it was a little over the top to flame randomly like I did.
But who is to blame?

Are we to blame Frankie for this mess?
Or to blame the ones he has chosen.
How about the ones who stick up for the mods?
Maybe it is ourselves?

There is no real answer to this.

It is an endless cycle that will not have an end to it any time sooner.

The comments from both sides are indeed childish.
But is it not childish to respond back to each other in the same manner?

People have gone in and out of this life time.
Great people who are never forgotten, the average people, etc.

These forums have been through a similar likewise situation in the past oh, 26 hours now?

In the past 26 hours, people have been fighting for their own cause.
It is not a split 2 way rebellion.

There are the moderators and the GMs, who have their own cause.
They must protect the name of PWE to prevent customer loss.

There are the people who rebel back.

There are the people who side with the moderators and GMs and fight against the 'rebels'

Either way, nobody will win.
Can anyone see that?

I remember when I was younger, there was always someone who told me this.

"You have the choice. You have the choice to be one or the other.
However, there is something to never forget.
You have the decision and the choice to do something else instead."

Who is to say who we are.
And who is to say we should be this or that.

Either way, theres not much more for me to say anymore.

Great post Reds.

And my two cents here.

Teppeii - Dreamweaver

fight communism.

Deora - Lost City

Teppeii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

fight communism.

Worked pretty good on the Russians didn't it?

RedsRose - Lost City

Deora - Lost City wrote: »

inb4 they ban you for speaking out

Sure, why not. At this point the banhammer is fierce. I am only speaking the TRUTH and conveying the feelings of this community.

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

This entire thing has saddened me. I am sure you know what I am talking about as you attempt to douse the flames of the fire that you all started.

As the flames burn on, I would like to point a few things out that you may or may not already know. However, in light of recent events I think that hearing this (from one of your most active forum members) might help to make you better understand where people are coming from.

First, the PW section of PWI Games has ALWAYS been largely neglected It has been the players in THIS community that have often been the ones to police their own forums. It has worked and in some cases it has not worked. However, we have done well considering the lack of "care" as so many would call it.

Secondly, the community looks to the GM's to be a safe-guard, a trusting member of the actual PWI staff to whom they can go too if needed. You frankie, I am sorry to say, have never really connected with this community in a way that (imo) you should have. This results in a skeptical view and a reluctance to trust. Any resemblance of trust that was there or even left for some was shattered with the Konra thing. Konra is first and fore-most my friend, and I talked with him for a LONG time yesterday. Once I saw his post I immediately pm'd him on msn because it is all to obvious it was him. A poor choice for him and a poor choice for you imo. You tried to trick a community, one in which is smarter then maybe you all might think. I told Konra and I am telling you that this was a terrible move.

Thirdly, I am admin of 2 forums and currently mod 4 and I can tell you this forum is sadly not done well in either respect. There is no consistency, there is no set way, there is no 100% cut and dry way that it is dealt with. You bring in mod's that are qq'ers and spammers and expect the community to welcome them with open arms = no. Additionally you bring in those that know little about the current changes and how they affect the community because they themselves have never experienced these changes first hand. It seems to much of the community that it is those who kiss-butt that become mod's rather then those that are consistent and trusted within the entire community. The PW community that is, one that, saying this again, has been over-looked for a LONG time.

Fourth, along with the overlooking of these PW forums, the mod's tend to be NOT in the U.S. meaning that during much of the forums peak times, there is no one but you attempting (and not really doing) to watch the forums. Lately, I have often stopped reading these forums because based on title before even opening the thread I KNOW it should be closed. I should not have to PM you nor the mod's at every turn. When I left these forums, I began posting on a alt to just linger and see. Then when Konra became mod (tbh I was not 100% on that either) I was more active because I was helping and feeding him with the threads he needed to focus on. I came back on Rose because he ASKED me too in order to help him.

I know many that know these forums and know these forums and this community WELL. However, the "leaving" (*cough*You know what I mean by this*cough*) of Aryanna and the attempted lie and the Mod appointments has ONCE AGAIN shattered this community. It is sickening and disheartening. At what damn point will the CM's LOOK AND LISTEN to the community. JUST ONCE FFS!! All we are asking for is a voice. Maybe a voice like Spoon's or even Dvork was an amazing CM here.

Step up and LISTEN to the community!! What is done now is done and it is just...I don't even.

You are "forcing" out once again a HUGE part of the community that has been here and been honest and supported and LOVED THESE DAMN FORUMS. Even if the game is going to hell for many and even if they have stopped playing the game THEY ARE HERE ON THE FORUMS!! That has to tell you something about this damn community.

Take all of this or leave it but the fact is people are fed up. People are pissed. People are hurt. People no longer trust (with what little they has left).


From the community:

For heaven's sake, FOR ONCE look and listen to your community. We no longer sit and have decent discussions. We are kept in the dark, unless some of us research and seek the info ourselves. We no longer care. We DON'T trust!!! If that does not make you sit and ponder and wonder then maybe it is all worthless and pointless to even attempt to help others here.

Shouldn't the current state of these forums tell you anything? Anything? How the hell could you not think this would not happen? You have thrown the community into a damn uproar!!

And tbh I feel slightly sorry for the new mod's because they just DO NOT KNOW THESE FORUMS!! Yes I said it and I will again, THEY DO NOT!! I or about 10+ people can and WILL go toe-to-toe with them on navigating these forums, finding posts, seeing necro's just by the title...THESE are things I worked so hard with with Konra and he was getting it. The new ones have A LOT TO LEARN. And I am sorry, this time, I WILL NOT help and tbh I am not sure anyone will. Sorry frankie but your community know these forums better then even you. When we have to PM you threads that are dangerous or necro's etc...You know what I mean.

I don't even at this point...and tbh neither does much of the community.

Sincerely,

An always loyal member of this community and now I just do not know...

Rose

sadly, This is post is not going to make a difference. A waste of time typing all that i'm sorry but it's the truth.

RedsRose - Lost City

_Bloody_Fox_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

sadly, This is post is not going to make a difference. A waste of time typing all that i'm sorry but it's the truth.

I do not expect any of it to make a difference and tbh was supposed to be a PM to frankie, however, it was over the 5000 word mark -.-

Either way, I thin it is how I feel and a good reflection of the communities feelings atm.

People know me, I speak my mind, but I am fair, blunt and honest b:surrender

nuuukes

Who's Konra and what happened to him/her?

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Reds, I have always loved your posts.

You have always defended those who needed defending while chastising the others who weren't in the right in some cases and your opinion, while not necessarily always right, is always well explained.

Your opinion should be something of value for this reason. It should be listened to and considered, after all the support people like you have shown.

I wholeheartedly and fully agree with you, Reds. All the way. Whether it ends up making a difference or not, I don't know, but the fact you spoke out about this - and in such a clear, concise non-confrontational manner, speaks for itself.

And if this goes ignored? That too speaks for itself.

+infinity

Knownase - Heavens Tear

If Roses gets ban from this, expect the forums to spiral downward beyond oblivion.

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear

as others, i lost my respect for this forum a long time ago

played and loved the game when it was released and loved the forum/community back then, but now it has been corrupted only due to one force (the company)

Jennalicious - Sanctuary

Not to mock you or anything Red, but, as I am sure you are already aware, ever since Spoons left, the community's voice has always been ignored. All we are to PWE are dollar signs. What we want is irrelevant.

Krisnda - Lost City

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If Roses gets ban from this, expect the forums to spiral downward beyond oblivion.

I'm sorry but i have to say, ^ this.

Byebyebye - Archosaur

Tupac and i Quote.


Every day. I'm standing outside tryin to sing my way in- "We are weak, please let us in. We're week, please let us in."
After about a week tha song is gonna change to, "We're hungry, we need some food."
After two, three weeks it's like "Give me some of tha food! I'm breakin down tha door."
After a year it's like, "I'm pickin' the lock, comin' through the door blastin."
It's like, "I'm hungry." You reached your level, you don't want any more.
We asked ten years ago, we were askin' with the Panthers, we were askin' in the Civil Rights Movement. Now those who were askin' are all dead or in jail, wo what are we gonna do? And we shouldn't be angry!?"

SerenityMare - Dreamweaver

Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not to mock you or anything Red, but, as I am sure you are already aware, ever since Spoons left, the community's voice has always been ignored. All we are to PWE are dollar signs. What we want is irrelevant.

Not even dollar signs, some of the people that got banned, spent a good amount of money on it and still got banned. So at this point, they're becoming very weird, imo.

They are ignoring the root of the problem and trying to solve the sub ones.

(i.e Banning people for badmouthing because they're angry instead of thinking and changing the game to the better which will calm everything down)

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Solution:

Hire a GAME SPECIFIC CM, Mod or admins. Have another pack sale, it'll pay their salary for a year...

The PW board alone is too large for a part time staff of 3 to effectively manage.

RedsRose - Lost City

Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not to mock you or anything Red, but, as I am sure you are already aware, ever since Spoons left, the community's voice has always been ignored. All we are to PWE are dollar signs. What we want is irrelevant.

Spoon's departure was a rough patch for the community yes. Also, I am overall a a pessimist but with these forums I have ALWAYS given a 2nd chance and a benefit of the doubt...but in this case I am just...

I and many others have seen things like this happen before, but I must say this is the worst. And tbh, I thin things went insane once the "lie" was found out. Otherwise it would not have been THIS bad imo.

*sigh* Keep giving chances? I do not know...

Siege - Dreamweaver

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

This entire thing has saddened me. I am sure you know what I am talking about as you attempt to douse the flames of the fire that you all started.

As the flames burn on, I would like to point a few things out that you may or may not already know. However, in light of recent events I think that hearing this (from one of your most active forum members) might help to make you better understand where people are coming from.

First, the PW section of PWI Games has ALWAYS been largely neglected It has been the players in THIS community that have often been the ones to police their own forums. It has worked and in some cases it has not worked. However, we have done well considering the lack of "care" as so many would call it.

Secondly, the community looks to the GM's to be a safe-guard, a trusting member of the actual PWI staff to whom they can go too if needed. You frankie, I am sorry to say, have never really connected with this community in a way that (imo) you should have. This results in a skeptical view and a reluctance to trust. Any resemblance of trust that was there or even left for some was shattered with the Konra thing. Konra is first and fore-most my friend, and I talked with him for a LONG time yesterday. Once I saw his post I immediately pm'd him on msn because it is all to obvious it was him. A poor choice for him and a poor choice for you imo. You tried to trick a community, one in which is smarter then maybe you all might think. I told Konra and I am telling you that this was a terrible move.

Thirdly, I am admin of 2 forums and currently mod 4 and I can tell you this forum is sadly not done well in either respect. There is no consistency, there is no set way, there is no 100% cut and dry way that it is dealt with. You bring in mod's that are qq'ers and spammers and expect the community to welcome them with open arms = no. Additionally you bring in those that know little about the current changes and how they affect the community because they themselves have never experienced these changes first hand. It seems to much of the community that it is those who kiss-butt that become mod's rather then those that are consistent and trusted within the entire community. The PW community that is, one that, saying this again, has been over-looked for a LONG time.

Fourth, along with the overlooking of these PW forums, the mod's tend to be NOT in the U.S. meaning that during much of the forums peak times, there is no one but you attempting (and not really doing) to watch the forums. Lately, I have often stopped reading these forums because based on title before even opening the thread I KNOW it should be closed. I should not have to PM you nor the mod's at every turn. When I left these forums, I began posting on a alt to just linger and see. Then when Konra became mod (tbh I was not 100% on that either) I was more active because I was helping and feeding him with the threads he needed to focus on. I came back on Rose because he ASKED me too in order to help him.

I know many that know these forums and know these forums and this community WELL. However, the "leaving" (*cough*You know what I mean by this*cough*) of Aryanna and the attempted lie and the Mod appointments has ONCE AGAIN shattered this community. It is sickening and disheartening. At what damn point will the CM's LOOK AND LISTEN to the community. JUST ONCE FFS!! All we are asking for is a voice. Maybe a voice like Spoon's or even Dvork was an amazing CM here.

Step up and LISTEN to the community!! What is done now is done and it is just...I don't even.

You are "forcing" out once again a HUGE part of the community that has been here and been honest and supported and LOVED THESE DAMN FORUMS. Even if the game is going to hell for many and even if they have stopped playing the game THEY ARE HERE ON THE FORUMS!! That has to tell you something about this damn community.

Take all of this or leave it but the fact is people are fed up. People are pissed. People are hurt. People no longer trust (with what little they has left).


From the community:

For heaven's sake, FOR ONCE look and listen to your community. We no longer sit and have decent discussions. We are kept in the dark, unless some of us research and seek the info ourselves. We no longer care. We DON'T trust!!! If that does not make you sit and ponder and wonder then maybe it is all worthless and pointless to even attempt to help others here.

Shouldn't the current state of these forums tell you anything? Anything? How the hell could you not think this would not happen? You have thrown the community into a damn uproar!!

And tbh I feel slightly sorry for the new mod's because they just DO NOT KNOW THESE FORUMS!! Yes I said it and I will again, THEY DO NOT!! I or about 10+ people can and WILL go toe-to-toe with them on navigating these forums, finding posts, seeing necro's just by the title...THESE are things I worked so hard with with Konra and he was getting it. The new ones have A LOT TO LEARN. And I am sorry, this time, I WILL NOT help and tbh I am not sure anyone will. Sorry frankie but your community know these forums better then even you. When we have to PM you threads that are dangerous or necro's etc...You know what I mean.

I don't even at this point...and tbh neither does much of the community.

Sincerely,

An always loyal member of this community and now I just do not know...

Rose

I love youb:kiss

RedsRose - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Solution:

Hire a GAME SPECIFIC CM, Mod or admins. Have another pack sale, it'll pay their salary for a year...

The PW board alone is too large for a part time staff of 3 to effectively manage.

100% Agree!!

They need forums specific mod's here...THESE forums have always been overlooked.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

Seriously... REDS FOR CM >:(

RedsRose - Lost City

Siege - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I love youb:kiss

Awww...b:cute


I just speak my mind and in this case the truth b:surrender

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear

do you know whats sick... but funny

this will all blow over in a few days and people will move on, THAT is what the GM/Mod's are bagging for and why we've seen minimalist view of them apart from offensive language thread closing

this happens every time now...

Knownase - Heavens Tear

Wait, what was the lie about?

I missed that part.

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

do you know whats sick... but funny

this will all blow over in a few days and people will move on, THAT is what the GM/Mod's are waiting for and why we've seen minimalist view of them apart from offensive language thread closing

Yea, I was thinking the same thing earlier.

Altros - Sanctuary

I am not a well-known person on the forums, nor in-game. However I have been here through the tough times and the good times. I fell just short of the 2-year vet mark, and have watched the treatment of the players change over time.

From what I know to be true, the PWI community, has a pattern in which the Devs expect us to follow whenever and unfavorable change occurs. That pattern is:

1) Anger and rage.

2) A few people get banned.

3) More and anger and rage for a few months.

4) The community gets over it and moves on.

Granted that each time this occurs, it compounds itself, however chances are that eventually the forums will settle down. This is because all the community will do is rage without taking steps large steps to fix the issue. It is hard to hear a single voice when it is surrounded by a wall of flames. What needs to happen is that the community needs to have a single unified voice, without it degrading to flame.

Krisnda - Lost City

RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »

Awww...b:cute


I just speak my mind and in this case the truth b:surrender

Well, i agree with you, too bad thats not enough here. Luckly you don't seem to care now (like most of the rest).

nuuukes

Knownase - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wait, what was the lie about?

I missed that part.

Same here, but it's not really "what was the lie about?" so much as it is "which lie are we talking about?"

Sneakret - Heavens Tear

As an old player I'm quite glad to see you taking up a stance again Reds, most forum goers know your name well even if they have only briefly visited here.

I hope your voice is heard and that the community backs you well, best wishes, and I hope you can still find it within your patience to stay by even if it's an idle stay.

*goes off to research what was missed within last 3hrs*b:bye

Lenore - Harshlands

Altros - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not a well-known person on the forums, nor in-game. However I have been here through the tough times and the good times. I fell just short of the 2-year vet mark, and have watched the treatment of the players change over time.

From what I know to be true, the PWI community, has a pattern in which the Devs expect us to follow whenever and unfavorable change occurs. That pattern is:

1) Anger and rage.

2) A few people get banned.

3) More and anger and rage for a few months.

4) The community gets over it and moves on.

Granted that each time this occurs, it compounds itself, however chances are that eventually the forums will settle down. This is because all the community will do is rage without taking steps large steps to fix the issue. It is hard to hear a single voice when it is surrounded by a wall of flames. What needs to happen is that the community needs to have a single unified voice, without it degrading to flame.

Your theory is for what affects the game. The forum is the medium of communication for the players. Making a bad change to the forums is not the same as making a bad patch.

_Nuriko_ - Lost City

I agree with everything Reds has said within the last 16hrs or so and same goes with Airyll, this forum is fast heading towards disaster

Rillien - Heavens Tear

I like this post for the sole reason that it expresses the sentiments of the playerbase in a way that cannot be ignored: they can't say it's flaming, they can't say it is unreasonable. It's unfortunate that reasonable posts tend to get ignored. Hopefully this one will not be. Rest assured that the community stands behind you.