An Early GM Response to the TW Changes
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Bebisito - Dreamweaver wrote: »"New" TWers doesn't necessarily mean new to PW. So no, I didn't.
It means people that never got the chance before.
Yes, enjoy fighting TWs you most likely get rolled in 10 minutes. Or heaven's forbid, if you as a barb, face a true 3 hour war twice in one weekend, you'll go through 4-8 charms per war. If you're not a cata-puller, then perhaps 2-4 charms per war.
Yes, you'll easily make that coin every week from farming and merchanting... but how much coin will you have left for other aspects of the game, or to improve your gear?
b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Yes, enjoy fighting TWs you most likely get rolled in 10 minutes. Or heaven's forbid, if you as a barb, face a true 3 hour war twice in one weekend, you'll go through 4-8 charms per war. If you're not a cata-puller, then perhaps 2-4 charms per war.
Yes, you'll easily make that coin every week from farming and merchanting... but how much coin will you have left for other aspects of the game, or to improve your gear?
b:bye
My normal 3~4m TW pay was barely enough to afford TW much less anything else in the game, some weekends TW chewed up closer to 10mil. No way will I sit here 5 days a weeks sitting my **** on a game grinding a 40 hour work week to afford TW.
People seem to think TW is pure profit when in fact it WAS a coin sink.
Charms for 1 TW each player having 1 gold charm, 2mil x 80 (500k gold) 160mil + Towers 1.4m + scrolls(3hr TW can go into 200 scrolls total) 4m
Most ppl go through 2 gold charms a TW 320mil
Most Barbs go through 2 to 3 times the average DD, 4 cats = 4 to 6 gold charms = 8m~12m
So one decent 3hr TW costing 325 to 350mil.
For ONE TW. For ONE team, double that to include opponent, 700mil.
God forbid we get compensated anything aside from 10 mirages."Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Look at my very first post here... the date.. the year... i stated my lvl on PW-MY when these forums open.. long before beta testing... I think i know what I talk about.. and so do any of the other PW veterans. Anyone that has ONLY played here.. really.. does not know what the future holds if those changes aren't made...
Guess what. in a year.... you'll still be getting 2m salary.. but charms (gold ones) will cost 6m... 99 gold mats will range from 150m-350m. Gold for cash shop purchases, cant be bought in the AH anymore... People world shout... "Selling Gold 1.5m each"... you all complain about Gold prices and rising economy...
This TW patch.. will PREVENT that from happening. Be HAPPY that this PROBLEM will be FIXED before it happens to PWI servers too!
Sorry, your experience on PW-MY isn't the same as it is here. We're 2 years into the game. 99 gold mats sell for cheaper than the coin + chip fee. 2x drops has devalued all the HH mats. All of the ways to earn coin in-game have been removed and Perfect Tokens of Best Luck have been introduced. The economy on PW-MY is not the same.... your 'gold' is cheaper with real life money. Ours is more expensive. Of course with a cheaper real money > gold conversion, things will be more expensive.
Gold here has been artificially managed. Tokens of Best Luck have put an in-game set price that helps keep gold at a somewhat normal rate.
Your experience there, aside from gameplay, is completely meaningless here. The direction that PWE has taken since PW-MY was introduced is completely different. They both resemble each other, but they're not the same game and the management is completely different.
Your logic pretty much fails.CrazyButcher - Lost City wrote: »TW is one of the bests ways to get money.. we all also agree with that... but this new system guives a chance to every1 else, and its will change the actual subject of the players: GET PAYD TO PLAY.. to like.. PLAY FOR FUN (as indeed as a game)..
No, not everyone agrees with that, you're actually in the minority. If you want to Play for Fun now, you need Hypers to level, at end-game you need charms and pots to win. Only the people who merch the most and spend the most money in the game are competitive. The casual player is the one who is hurting the most.
These changes are for one reason only, to make people charge more money.SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »My normal 3~4m TW pay was barely enough to afford TW much less anything else in the game, some weekends TW chewed up closer to 10mil. No way will I sit here 5 days a weeks sitting my **** on a game grinding a 40 hour work week to afford TW.
Oh I know believe me. If I'm fighting a factor war, I need to have 2 extra charms ready per war. I may not need them, but if the wars go for longer than an hour, most likely I will. There have been many weeks in a row where I do go through 2-4 charms per weekend. Figure that in coin, then add the costs of TW pots or sitting there farming herbs for 8 hours a day... It's just too expensive. Of course I could throw $50 a week at it and not worry... but I refuse to, and since I don't, I won't be competitive in TW anymore.
Cash shopping isn't a convenience anymore and PWI is trying to get rid of those players who don't 'top off with some extra gold' every week.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
I welcome the TW changes. It's not the major cause for inflation but it's definately part of it and I see the gold prices coming down sooner or later because of these changes.
I understand the people that are mad because of it as well but imo it's easier this way for TW-Newcomers to get a chance for a territory (granted, I'd have prefered if there was no limit of TWs at the same time but meh). While the big factions could pay a part of their costs from their paycheck, the attackers always had to spend their own money for charms etc. . Now if you say "But we have up to 10 TWs per week, how is that fair?" well, if you don't see it worth to spend so much money in TWs now, leave some territories for other factions.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Your experience there, aside from gameplay, is completely meaningless here. The direction that PWE has taken since PW-MY was introduced is completely different.
You say that as if PW-MY was released after pwi, but in fact PW-MY was already around for years before PWE as a company was even established.
If that was a typo then nvm me b:thanks[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Cheerilee - Harshlands wrote: »I welcome the TW changes. It's not the major cause for inflation but it's definately part of it and I see the gold prices coming down sooner or later because of these changes.
I understand the people that are mad because of it as well but imo it's easier this way for TW-Newcomers to get a chance for a territory (granted, I'd have prefered if there was no limit of TWs at the same time but meh). While the big factions could pay a part of their costs from their paycheck, the attackers always had to spend their own money for charms etc. . Now if you say "But we have up to 10 TWs per week, how is that fair?" well, if you don't see it worth to spend so much money in TWs now, leave some territories for other factions.
You're one of the newer players?
You've been trained well. Spend cash so you aren't excluded from leveling with all your friends in Hyper Frost. Then when you get to TW, it's either a one time casual experience where you get rolled and say it's not for you, or you dump thousands into the game and basically promise PWI that you'll spend $20-$50 a week just to be able to be included in a TW lineup.
Yes, spend more money, that makes the game better. b:byeI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »You're one of the newer players?
You've been trained well. Spend cash so you aren't excluded from leveling with all your friends in Hyper Frost. Then when you get to TW, it's either a one time casual experience where you get rolled and say it's not for you, or you dump thousands into the game and basically promise PWI that you'll spend $20-$50 a week just to be able to be included in a TW lineup.
Yes, spend more money, that makes the game better. b:bye
I've been playing since over a year and I played on several TWs a year ago when it was still an acceptable situation. Nowadays it's only 3-4 factions playing a major role in TWs on Harshlands and you gotta cashshop for endgame-gear to get into those just as you said. Now with the changes, the costs of those 3-4 factions will stay the same while their income decreased drastically. That means few people from the big factions ragequit right now because it's expensive, others will probably follow later. Since for the "Outsider" factions nothing at all changes, they got a better chance to get a territory now. I don't see how the "new TW players" need to spend more money now compared to before.0 -
Agree with Cheerilee.
Everyone asks how I will get money for mine charms in TW - they are not requirement! If land owning reward will not be high, there will be less charmed TW groups! (simply - they will not have money for it). Is it bad? No! Cost for TW war will be lower, so more factions will be able to try it. And TW will be again about fun and not about who will buy more charms.
And if you will face in TW to charmed band? Yes, then you probably loose war, because they spend their real money to get charms. They will not get these money back, but they probably win. You can try attack them next week, they maybe will be without money. But this is characteristic for all "free2pay" games - who will pay, will have some advantages.
If nothing more, you will learn how it goes in life. You can't cry "Give me more money, i can't buy everything". You will spend only so much as you can afford - nothing more.0 -
Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »You say that as if PW-MY was released after pwi, but in fact PW-MY was already around for years before PWE as a company was even established.
If that was a typo then nvm me b:thanks
It's not the same game. Has PW-MY had several months of 2x drops? Have the had multiple pack sales for a whole year? Do they have the same ratio of players willing to spend RL money on the game?
Set up two identical experiments in two completely different environments. You think the results will be identical, or even close? PWE and PW-MY are two separate and unrelated companies. The management is different.
The changes that have been made here don't reflect on what has happened in PW-MY, which was completely mis-managed, but that of what happens in PW-CN, the parent company of PWI.
For PWI to become PW-MY it would have to follow a completely different path. So far it has been.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »You're one of the newer players?
You've been trained well. Spend cash so you aren't excluded from leveling with all your friends in Hyper Frost. Then when you get to TW, it's either a one time casual experience where you get rolled and say it's not for you, or you dump thousands into the game and basically promise PWI that you'll spend $20-$50 a week just to be able to be included in a TW lineup.
Yes, spend more money, that makes the game better. b:bye
At this rate it's cheaper to play a P2P game that guarantees better quality and a more proactive response to player opinions.
This game is fleecing ppl for 10x what a P2P game costs and still advertises it as F2P."Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »This game is fleecing ppl for 10x what a P2P game costs and still advertises it as F2P.
Get them hooked, or rather make them invest enough time and money into the game that once you reach near the end, you'll have peer pressure to spend more money or to quit.I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Sedochlup - Dreamweaver wrote: »Agree with Cheerilee.
Everyone asks how I will get money for mine charms in TW - they are not requirement! If land owning reward will not be high, there will be less charmed TW groups! (simply - they will not have money for it). Is it bad? No! Cost for TW war will be lower, so more factions will be able to try it. And TW will be again about fun and not about who will buy more charms.
And if you will face in TW to charmed band? Yes, then you probably loose war, because they spend their real money to get charms. They will not get these money back, but they probably win. You can try attack them next week, they maybe will be without money. But this is characteristic for all "free2pay" games - who will pay, will have some advantages.
If nothing more, you will learn how it goes in life. You can't cry "Give me more money, i can't buy everything". You will spend only so much as you can afford - nothing more.
Are you serious ? There's already too much firepower in PWI ever since gears from packs came out to kill ppl quite fast and let's not forget the +30 attack level blessings and yet you want ppl to fight uncharmed ?
So every1 dying in 2 shots or so ? Sound's fun .
/sarcasmIt's all about LoL,yo.0 -
SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »At this rate it's cheaper to play a P2P game that guarantees better quality and a more proactive response to player opinions.
This game is fleecing ppl for 10x what a P2P game costs and still advertises it as F2P.
I agree. I see how often I threw PWE a $20 game card and I look on how cheaper it'd be for me be on a P2P game.
For now I refuse to spend anymore money on this game, as I've mentioned before, I did it to show support for a otherwise good game, which has now gone to **** with this latest change. That no refund bidding is really the core issue not so much the mirage stones which seem to be PWE's drug of choice to hand out to players. (though mind you I'm well aware of how worthless they are as a reward).0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »**** TW...change the text...b:cry
On Topic....only time will tell. b:surrender
^-- this, GG[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool
VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
HA > LA > AR... GG
HA + VIT = win b:bye0 -
Cheerilee - Harshlands wrote: »Since for the "Outsider" factions nothing at all changes, they got a better chance to get a territory now. I don't see how the "new TW players" need to spend more money now compared to before.
No, fighting a larger faction doesn't change for them. They won't need to make a formation, require charms or pots, but if your faction wants to stand up to them, you will have to. You'll still get rolled by the top 3-4. If you were in one of the top 3-4 factions, you would realize how these changes are negative.Sedochlup - Dreamweaver wrote: »Everyone asks how I will get money for mine charms in TW - they are not requirement!
Apparently you've never been included in a TW formation. A barb without a charm? lolI post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
So quit.
What I predict (not aimed at anyone, just general predictions - if you get angry at these comments, then it just proves them right):
The mature players who dislike the new system, will leave without a fuss. (Note that I'm not saying that those that complain are bad, they probably have spent a lot of months levelling up their character and would probably feel that they are 'cheated'...but...like I said that's why I never charge money and/or grow too attached to any characters I play in f2p games)
For those who threaten lightning and flood if the game isn't changed, they'll just keep whinging on WC and forums until people stop responding to them. So while they do this, I am actually seeing a big spike in my tele sales and profit b:chuckle
Happiness for everyone kekekehehehe b:victory
Edit: On a more serious note, an interesting thing would be:
If PWI takes out charms altogether, and lowers the damages of everyone in TW (so there's no 1-2 shots)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
AriAdiemus - Archosaur:
"Clerics heal health, they still can't heal stupid."
So true. b:surrender
8x Veno, 6x Cleric0 -
VenoProwl - Raging Tide wrote: »So quit.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html
Google: skinner box video games.
It sounds weird, but it's in the games interest that people quit when they reach a certain level, but stay the duration of the game while they spend their money and time.
Fact is, you might not spend your dollars, but you do spend your time.
Your time is worth money too, which you contribute to this game.
You just don't seem to know or care about it.
I suggest you find another hobby that gives you nicer memories or more useful skills for the future, but then again, it's fun to waste some time now and again.0 -
TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »Are you serious ? There's already too much firepower in PWI ever since gears from packs came out to kill ppl quite fast and let's not forget the +30 attack level blessings and yet you want ppl to fight uncharmed ?
So every1 dying in 2 shots or so ? Sound's fun .
/sarcasm
Why do you think I am not serious? Yes, in packs are really deathly things, but I wrote - who will pay, he will have advantages! That is only one rule in "free2play" servers. And that +30 attack level blessings? Yes, I hate them..
But don't you think if same advantage is on both sides, it's same as without these advantage? (it's simple math and fight in PWI is nothing more than math) So if both sides have charm, result will be very similar or same like without charm? (I don't used plurar, if one side have more charms, it can have some effect). Do you think peoples in TW will pay their charms 4times in month when it will not be rentable? (only for own territory with poor income 150mirages?). I don't think so.. (but time will show us more, maybe there will be some faction of fanatics
)
Btw. if you die in two shots, charm will not help you survive much longer
(additionaly when you are figting against well organized faction, you are not attacked by one enemy ) 0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »No, fighting a larger faction doesn't change for them. They won't need to make a formation, require charms or pots, but if your faction wants to stand up to them, you will have to. You'll still get rolled by the top 3-4. If you were in one of the top 3-4 factions, you would realize how these changes are negative.
Apparently you've never been included in a TW formation. A barb without a charm? lol
Why do you think? Because I told charms are not required? They are not. Yes, they help much, additionaly to cat-pullers and it's big advantage to have it. But it depends if faction think it is so big advantage, that they will pay it - especially with new rules. I think much factions will save their money here, because it will not be rentable..
And answer? Yes, I was in TW. But it was times when charms wasn't used massively and I try both variants (with and without charm). I don't know how much players use charm there now (from reactions it looks like all), but if rewards will be drastically lowered, times probably will change again..0 -
Sedochlup - Dreamweaver wrote: »Why do you think? Because I told charms are not required? They are not. Yes, they help much, additionaly to cat-pullers and it's big advantage to have it. But it depends if faction think it is so big advantage, that they will pay it - especially with new rules. I think much factions will save their money here, because it will not be rentable..
And answer? Yes, I was in TW. But it was times when charms wasn't used massively and I try both variants (with and without charm). I don't know how much players use charm there now (from reactions it looks like all), but if rewards will be drastically lowered, times probably will change again..
I can see where you're coming from there, but as a faction you can't just say ''We're not gonna use charms, let's hope the opponent does the same.''[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »Sorry, your experience on PW-MY isn't the same as it is here. We're 2 years into the game. 99 gold mats sell for cheaper than the coin + chip fee. 2x drops has devalued all the HH mats. All of the ways to earn coin in-game have been removed and Perfect Tokens of Best Luck have been introduced. The economy on PW-MY is not the same.... your 'gold' is cheaper with real life money. Ours is more expensive. Of course with a cheaper real money > gold conversion, things will be more expensive.
Gold here has been artificially managed. Tokens of Best Luck have put an in-game set price that helps keep gold at a somewhat normal rate.
Your experience there, aside from gameplay, is completely meaningless here. The direction that PWE has taken since PW-MY was introduced is completely different. They both resemble each other, but they're not the same game and the management is completely different.
Your logic pretty much fails.
Do you think PWI is the only server to get box? PW-MY would have 2x events in the better years.
PW-My also had MANY types of boxes.. and i know of at least 2 ppl that would spend $50,000 US per box when new box came out...(now add in all the other players that also open box).
While gold maybe cheaper with real life money... many of the items in the cash shop cost more... one lucky box/pack there.. is about $1.00 US.. same as it here.. only.. here u get discount if you buy in lots of 20 or 50... not there.. So please.. dont try to use that as excuse.
By the time that tokens & tokens of best luck were introduced in boxes, there was already massive inflation from the other boxes.. if u would have exchanged those best luck tokens for the perfect cash 10m item.. ppl would laugh at you for being noob... because they worth much more than that.
and BTW... PW-MY is an OLDER server than any of PWI servers.
And the only thing different.. is that here.. you got GMs that care.. and you get updates....
I dont want PWI to be like PW-MY... not in a million years.. that is why this fix is important.. and is a good thing.
Unless you've been on PW-MY regularly over the last year or two.. you really have no idea what it is like.. what PW-MY is now.. is what PWI will be in the future.. without this fix.0 -
Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear wrote: »I can see where you're coming from there, but as a faction you can't just say ''We're not gonna use charms, let's hope the opponent does the same.''
Yes, that's unfortunately true at this moment
But I hope low reward prices for lands will cause most factions eliminate charms in TW (probably cat-pullers will be charmed some time longer, depends on prices of charms.).
At this point (cuts territory rewards) I aggree with patch - here it can makes TW better by mine opinion.
Unfortunately there is worse thing which I don't aggree and which is little bid lost in all charm complains. That is non-refundable bids b:sad I think this is more ruining TW than low rewards. By mine opinion hidden single bids solves all problem with fake-bids, so there is no more reason for make overpayed bids not refundable.0 -
Sedochlup - Dreamweaver wrote: »Yes, that's unfortunately true at this moment But I hope low reward prices for lands will cause most factions eliminate charms in TW (probably cat-pullers will be charmed some time longer, depends on prices of charms.).
At this point (cuts territory rewards) I aggree with patch - here it can makes TW better by mine opinion.
Unfortunately there is worse thing which I don't aggree and which is little bid lost in all charm complains. That is non-refundable bids b:sad I think this is more ruining TW than low rewards. By mine opinion hidden single bids solves all problem with fake-bids, so there is no more reason for make overpayed bids not refundable.
It wont cause factions to eliminate charms, it will cause factions with pure cash shoppers to excel and crush all opposition."Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »It wont cause factions to eliminate charms, it will cause factions with pure cash shoppers to excel and crush all opposition.
Yes, this is possible too b:sad, but it's unfortunately characteristic of "free2play" server, where cash players have some advantages...
Depends if they will think TW lands are rentable to spend their expensive charms for 150 mirages/week/land. Cash equipment is other thing .. 0 -
I think and fell so manny things at this moment, like i would write pages and pages. but the next thing will give u the best solution to this problem
the solution is:
Honestly, whit this changes i dont fell this game like before,you should change the name because this int PWI anymore.0 -
forget it...
delete this LOL not worth it0 -
SgtSIaughter - Heavens Tear wrote: »My normal 3~4m TW pay was barely enough to afford TW much less anything else in the game, some weekends TW chewed up closer to 10mil. No way will I sit here 5 days a weeks sitting my **** on a game grinding a 40 hour work week to afford TW.
People seem to think TW is pure profit when in fact it WAS a coin sink.
Charms for 1 TW each player having 1 gold charm, 2mil x 80 (500k gold) 160mil + Towers 1.4m + scrolls(3hr TW can go into 200 scrolls total) 4m
Most ppl go through 2 gold charms a TW 320mil
Most Barbs go through 2 to 3 times the average DD, 4 cats = 4 to 6 gold charms = 8m~12m
So one decent 3hr TW costing 325 to 350mil.
For ONE TW. For ONE team, double that to include opponent, 700mil.
God forbid we get compensated anything aside from 10 mirages.
*ahem* u forgot hp food, apoth, and mpb:chuckle"I'm the best ever. I'm the most brutal and vicious, and most ruthless champion there's ever been. There's no one can stop me. Lennox is a conqueror? No, I'm Alexander, he's no Alexander. I'm the best ever! There's never been anybody as ruthless! I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey. There's no one like me. I'm from their cloth. There's no one that can match me. My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart! I want to eat his children!" ~ Mike Tyson0 -
Tinaaaaaa - Lost City wrote: »forget it...
delete this LOL not worth it
*is curious now* b:chuckle
Hi Tina ;3I post in forums. This one and others. That's why I post.0 -
Nuff_Said - Raging Tide wrote: »*ahem* u forgot hp food, apoth, and mpb:chuckle
I figured the values of basic uses would be overwhelming enough that I didn't have to calculate all the pots."Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory.
Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." ~Sun Tzu
"Lennox Lewis, I'm coming for you man. My style is impetuous. My defense is impregnable, and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat his children. Praise be to Allah!"
~Iron Mike Tyson Enrage.omgforum.net
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
May I just say, FAIL.
kthxbai[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks XRipetidex for the awesome sig!
"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities."
-Dr. Seuss
b:victory0
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