An Early GM Response to the TW Changes

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Why so stupid?

[Forum] Darksylph: seriously you need to lighten up if this gets you all disheveled. Its a reasonable protest mechanism, much like people who all decide to send peanuts to a TV studio to get a specific show they want brought back from cancellation. Its a show of support thats peaceful & passive, but displays it, like an AIDS ribbon or similar. Not everything boils down to people being childish with you being the grand righteous herald of maturity.

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

/facepalm

I'm pretty sure I stopped playing with crayons and construction paper when I was like.. 8 or so.

Meh, if they want to do the whole third grade activity writing, let them.

Aelric - Lost City

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Meh, if they want to do the whole third grade activity writing, let them.

I personally like arts and crafts so... yeah **** you too

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

[Forum] Darksylph: .......

Sorry, what?

I don't read big billboards thrust into my face.

Try again.

p.s. no I really didn't read a word of what you said.

Aelric - Lost City

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Sorry, what?

I don't read big billboards thrust into my face.

Try again.

p.s. no I really didn't read a word of what you said.

Wut? obvious troll is obvious?

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Lenore - Harshlands wrote: »

[Forum] Lenore: Good for you. If you like to intentionally be mediocre and simply HAVE WORK to do then you should work for PWE because they will always need names for new packs coming out as well as new excuses for the ways the **** up the game. If you like your slow pace, good for you! I know you are slow cuz I've been playing this game since it was out and I've definitely seen your nonsense around the forums, and I somehow got farther than you even though I didn't play for 10-12 months. However, that does not mean it's okay to **** over players who advance at a fast or even NORMAL pace. Because honestly, people who have been playing on and off a little at a time would be finished with all the reasonably achievable non-PvP content in the game in a matter of a few months.

Let me put it another way. I level slow, you level fast. I still have things to do, you don't. I am not bored, you are.

Sums it up quite nicely.b:bye

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Let me put it another way. I level slow, you level fast. I still have things to do, you don't. I am not bored, you are.

Sums it up quite nicely.b:bye

I'm with you, why speed through leveling to be bored.

Lenore, not all people care to spend a up to about a thousand dollars to lvl to 100 in a matter of days/weeks. Some of us take our time and enjoy the game, and for a few months, It took that long on my barb to get where he is and no he doesn't have gear that would be considered good. Why, because I did my barb the way I wanted to, not the way people expect you to.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Aelric - Lost City wrote: »

Wut? obvious troll is obvious?

Who me?

Because I won't pay attention to someone who has to jump up and down, wave their hands and scream at the top of their lungs to try to get a point across?

Sorry, I'm way past puberty.

b:bye

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Who me?

Because I won't pay attention to someone who has to jump up and down, wave their hands and scream at the top of their lungs to try to get a point across?

Sorry, I'm way past puberty.

b:bye

[Forum] Darksylph: You're at the age where everything you do has to measure to some arbitrary standard of maturity. Which is 18-mid 20s i'm guessing. Get a little older and realize you dont have to fight so hard to prove you're an adult, its actually rather immature. All we're doing is a civil protest. Going about our daily lives and not stopping them, but wearing a ribbon to show support for a cause. I guess you've never been a part of something like that.

Keyven - Lost City

I'm sorry BarbHammer but I haven't cash shopped a sent. & I've hit lvl99 in 7weeks...
I know the quests through n through [not my only high level char]

TW salary funded hypers for this one once it hit level90. HH the only fashioned way and the rediculous BH system for levelling up and earning money.

Now no one seems to be addressing the point that HH is the only viable way of earning money in game so you don't have to cash shop an arm & leg to pay for things.

Question, remove TW salary.. So this makes it harder for anyone to earn money to buy gold to get things.. So basically... All this acomplishes.. and someone correct me if I'm wrong:

The only effective way for everyone to make money [as there's now no inscentive to make money in game] Is to charge Zen & buy packs.. But if everyone does that. You crash the economy even faster & the game becomes unsustainable.
I mean there isn't unlimited coin in servers, and if everyone has to resort to packs to sell items from them to earn money. You crash the value of the items, the packs.. Gold itself & you get some 'normality' I use the term loosely.. Or you run out of ingame coin...

Either route still collapses the whole foundation the game is built on, a working economy.. Put a sustained outside influence on any economy without any regulation (IE packs) and you get a market crash.. They've only done this as another method to divert blame from the real problem. Which is PACKS, which should of either never been implimented, or only stayed around for pwi's birthday. NOT almost the last 11months continuesly..

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

[Forum] Darksylph: You're at the age where everything you do has to measure to some arbitrary standard of maturity. Which is 18-mid 20s i'm guessing. Get a little older and realize you dont have to fight so hard to prove you're an adult, its actually rather immature. All we're doing is a civil protest. Going about our daily lives and not stopping them, but wearing a ribbon to show support for a cause. I guess you've never been a part of something like that.

Ok, I actually bothered to read this. It has nothing to do with maturity. I'm about the most immature person I know. There's a line that separates immaturity and stupidity.

Yay, you like to yell at people in big blue fonts. Yeah, you're really rebelling. Idiot.

Actually I grew up in the 80's. Seeing how WRITING IN BIG BLUE TEXT IS YOUR FORM OF REBELLION, I'm guessing you're probably 10-14 years old.

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear

Keyven - Lost City wrote: »

I'm sorry BarbHammer but I haven't cash shopped a sent. & I've hit lvl99 in 7weeks...
I know the quests through n through [not my only high level char]

TW salary funded hypers for this one once it hit level90. HH the only fashioned way and the rediculous BH system for levelling up and earning money.

Now no one seems to be addressing the point that HH is the only viable way of earning money in game so you don't have to cash shop an arm & leg to pay for things.

Question, remove TW salary.. So this makes it harder for anyone to earn money to buy gold to get things.. So basically... All this acomplishes.. and someone correct me if I'm wrong:

The only effective way for everyone to make money [as there's now no inscentive to make money in game] Is to charge Zen & buy packs.. But if everyone does that. You crash the economy even faster & the game becomes unsustainable.
I mean there isn't unlimited coin in servers, and if everyone has to resort to packs to sell items from them to earn money. You crash the value of the items, the packs.. Gold itself & you get some 'normality' I use the term loosely.. Or you run out of ingame coin...

Either route still collapses the whole foundation the game is built on, a working economy.. Put a sustained outside influence on any economy without any regulation (IE packs) and you get a market crash.. They've only done this as another method to divert blame from the real problem. Which is PACKS, which should of either never been implimented, or only stayed around for pwi's birthday. NOT almost the last 11months continuesly..

Yeah, hence why I rather level the way I like to, not wasting the money on hypers. Running FFs every single day. I didn't say it was impossible. But if you level'd how it used to be it would take alot longer than 7 weeks. Personally I hate hyper stones, why they are pointless to a person like me, and half the people I encounter than used them have no idea what the hell they are doing. So possible to level that high in 7 weeks probably. But why would you want to get to 99 in 7 weeks, there is nothing really to do after it.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Ok, I actually bothered to read this. It has nothing to do with maturity. I'm about the most immature person I know. There's a line that separates immaturity and stupidity.

Yay, you like to yell at people in big blue fonts. Yeah, you're really rebelling. Idiot.

Actually I grew up in the 80's. Seeing how WRITING IN BIG BLUE TEXT IS YOUR FORM OF REBELLION, I'm guessing you're probably 10-14 years old.

[Forum] Darksylph: Add about 20 years to that estimate. Its not rebellion, its civil passive protest, something you seem incapable of grasping. I bet you think people that send peanuts to TV execs or wear ribbons marking a cause or bumper stickers is just rebellion too. Its symbolic, and it matches what has happened in game, its more then big text, it has the UI formatting as well. It's not even yelling, internet etiquette clearly says CAPS is yelling. But your brain cant add A & B together to realize all this.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

[Forum] Darksylph: Add about 20 years to that estimate. Its not rebellion, its civil passive protest, something you seem incapable of grasping. I bet you think people that send peanuts to TV execs or wear ribbons marking a cause or bumper stickers is just rebellion too. Its symbolic, and it matches what has happened in game, its more then big text, it has the UI formatting as well. But your brain cant add A & B together to realize that.

Yes, you're passive-aggressive defiance really makes a bold statement. Perhaps you should use Comic Sans and talk in the third person to further illustrate your enthusiasm to attain some feeling of accomplishment.

I wish I knew you in real life... I would follow you around and every time I had to say something to you I would pee on your leg. Because it would make a statement and add emphasis and underscore the very point I was trying to make. Yeah.

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

[Forum] Darksylph: Add about 20 years to that estimate. Its not rebellion, its civil passive protest, something you seem incapable of grasping. I bet you think people that send peanuts to TV execs or wear ribbons marking a cause or bumper stickers is just rebellion too. Its symbolic, and it matches what has happened in game, its more then big text, it has the UI formatting as well. It's not even yelling, internet etiquette clearly says CAPS is yelling. But your brain cant add A & B together to realize all this.

Rebellion, passive protest... I got a better definition for you:

Annoying.

Keyven - Lost City

Oh just because a 5/sec bm is the easiest to farm nirvana [which is now nerfed] and hh with. & my original char before the bh system was ever implimented was 9x within the first 8months of Lost City being up. + we now have the majority of the server at 10x and almost all the people in the largest guilds have 1-full sets of nirvana. We also have at least 4 lvl103s.. A Wizard, BM, Sin and Archer.

Now our server is dead. Essence owns half the map. Most of their members have full or half nirvana.. Gold is at 500k and staying there even with this 'fix'. The only way of making good money was to nirvana & get salary from TW which was allowing the smaller guilds to gain some momentum.. Unfortunately this patch has killed that. Guilds aren't wanting to TW, people are annoyed with nirvana. Being forced to cash shop to gain anything, but no one being able to earn any money to buy the gold..

Each to their own when it comes to cash shopping and levelling, there will ALWAYS be a void between the rich and the poor where ever you go in rl or virtual life. This debating and arguing needs to stop though. And everyone needs and has to realise. That in the 11months packs have constantly been around... Things have just gotten worse and worse.

This used to be 'free to play' or pay to play to get yourself out of sticky situations or nice things like fash. Then it went to 'Pay to Compete' (the advent of packs) Now it's just "Pay To Play" and unlike a pay monthly game where its a set amount and you just work hard & enjoy... You now HAVE to pay a rediculous amount to play/compete/win if you want to get anywhere. That's the real truth, PWI is now a game for the rich and elitests. It's not for the people that just want to play enjoy and put some money in to something they enjoy. It's just become a rich mans folly.

Andres - Dreamweaver

Yesterday we were talking about TW Changes in local chat in archo, and my biggest problem is that a lot of stuff is left out of explanation, this is what really bothers players that do participate in endgame TW mostly.

Sadly, I cannot quote but
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=9444652&postcount=1

In TW changes part:
Point 1 and 2 no longer specify minimum bid line, fact is, territory map itself doesn't specify a minimum bid line anymore either, does this means that any bid, even 1 coin bids will be considered enough to take part of the TW schedule? What's the minimum bid for TW now?

The idea that people will stop fake bidding because they don't have the coin to do so, by eliminating the announcement, refund and payout won't work.

As an example in Dreamweaver, Equinox shares borders with Calamity in 3 lands, Calamity shares borders with Equinox in 5 lands. What usually happened was, system announced Calamity doing a minimum bid for a land, Equinox doing the same. that's 500k for a lvl 3 land. With the current system, what stops both Equinox and Calamity to turn their mirages into coin, give them to small or fake factions and have them bid 1-2m for each land, knowing that Equinox and Calamity will always bid minimum bid for a land?

If anything, it just makes the tracking of fake bids harder. Because before the patch you could at least look for a leader/officer/member to mail or trade money to another faction representative. Now anyone can open a shop, and sell 6500 mirages at 100 coin each, as an "honest mistake" to fund such faction bids in order to keep the enemy from making the bid. What will your punishment be? 1 week of no TW again? How can you prove that all factions bidding are fake bids when you yourselves lowered the minimum bid rate and eliminated the cash refund. Technically, by making TW Free for all, you just legalized the idea of a "fake bid".

Finally. Mirages can still become a drain of coin. Sure, this patch eliminated the income of a faction by 85-90%, but 65 million (Calamity current payout in mirages) made gold, to the market still means a demand of about 150-200 gold at gold prices every Friday. If your goal was to really stabilize the market, you could at least try changing the reward into Warsoul Tags. Warsoul tags are not tradeable, they can be made shards, skill books, items that can be used by all faction members instead of just those 3-4 in each faction that are rank 8... you could have even added the option of a city officer to trade Warsoul tags for silver/bronze/starter charms depending on the level of the territory its owned.

I know how much you hate the quoting on other games in forums, but you may wanna look up for Balthazar faction and Balthazar's Priest. For one of the most balanced PvP/TW reward system I've ever taken part of playing a game.

This current changes killed "free to play" endgame TW, as anyone can see that previous PW version tried to achieve 2 things with it:
-Stop the coin farming in servers that were hugely populated by bots on top of the TW factions getting huge cash checks.
-Force non cash shop TW players to become cash shop players in order to sustain their TW needs.

With PWI, we don't suffer the bot problem, we clearly have a better cash shop user system. as what? we have had 2 warsoul weapons in less than 18 months? If the gold prices raise, it's not just because of the crazy amount of coin that there is in the market, which I will admit, it's plenty. It is also because of the lack of gold supply in the auction house. By introducing tokens of luck to the system, you made it the new "gold". Gold is traded into packs, packs is made tokens (if not incredibly good items), tokens is exchanged for coin. Tokens get you everything that a gold user needs to play the game besides fashion, mounts, marriage packs, aerogear and dragon orbs (and you only need 1 of those to really play). So the few gold that's left to sell through AH, is being sold to an incredibly stupid price, mostly because of the price of opportunity seller gives up, by not trying his/her luck opening packs. If you really aimed to fix the economy, make tokens able to be obtained at some merchant at current market price, and set yourself a max to the gold selling price, even better. Act as a central bank and supply the gold yourself so that you get rid of the speculation behind the prize of it and drop down the price scaling.

Keyven - Lost City

Andres that's probably the most logical and correct statement ive seen in the last 4 days. Needles to say, PWE is highly efficient at **** up its own product, so don't hold your hopes up. As I'm sure at next maintaince it's only going to get worse. I'll be amazed tbh if the company even exists in the next 12-18months. Let alone the game, as all these greed driven **** ups only goes to tarnish their name as a company.

Michael_Dark - Lost City

Andres - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yesterday we were talking about TW Changes in local chat in archo, and my biggest problem is that a lot of stuff is left out of explanation, this is what really bothers players that do participate in endgame TW mostly.

*snip*

And yet, another person who absolutely understands exactly what is happening.

Proclivity - Archosaur

they should rename this thread to "The Only GM Response to the TW Changes" seriously when was the last time they posted on this thread to peoples views and Opinions?

Anni Pack #2 Topic b:surrender

Scathatch - Harshlands

Amarante - Raging Tide wrote: »

Well said. Thank you. b:victory

In the mean time, I'll look forward to the TW's this weeken--...hm...wait a sec...this TW's wined. How odd. No one's here...

Okay, fine, I'll go and do something. Like maybe log off. Or go play a certain MMO that costs $15 per month. Or maybe a recently released, highly anticipated, 10 years in the making game. Because then, at least, I don't go blind reading "3rd grade" text. Maybe I'll return in 3 months, who knows. Maybe 6 months. Maybe I'll just go devote the time I spend enjoying games to something else, like soccer or basketball. That's my paragraph of QQing. That is all.

Goodnight, sirs. Goodnight and fare well... oh look, packs are in now... more packs... more inflated prices... b:bye

I agree with EVERYTHING you said, also on break from the game until the patch is changed.

BTW whoever said that it wasn't TW **** the gold prices it was the packs was right, the economy wasn't screwed before you started continuously re-introducing the anni packs to the game with a different name. Just because we play this game doesn't automatically make us stupid...

GHealz - Archosaur

i will be out till this patch changes as well, and i am serious here that text IS a health hazard, i showed it to my optometrist she said dont read that ever again, it causes way too much strain on a person's eye, yes i do have certified 20/20 vision with no cases or sight problems or eye strain....till this patch came out

Vorhs - Lost City

I think the new TW reward system could be a nice idea, that would bring good things in the future.

Just i dont like that coins are no more refunded if the war is won or if someone overbid your bid. Coins should be lost just if u win the bid but lose the TW.

Chasee - Archosaur

Excuse me Frankie, there's not points to discuss. Fix it. We don't care China Pw problems actually I don't understand why that have to affect PWI. Anyway there is only a solution downgrade it, no negociations, no other solutions. DOWNGRADE IT. This is getting too big people is starting cammpains against pwi in facebook, come on, you're creating more drama. =(

ScarletOwl - Raging Tide

I think the reward change and the anonymous bidding are good changes for TW, the rewards should never be mostly money but stuff that helps with making better gear.

GHealz - Archosaur

i have realized that the ppl who stink that how the TW setup is now are those that maybe never DID a TW, for non cash shoppers that was how we got tru week to week, do u want to know a reason some ppl lv?
to join a big faction to DO TW, majority do it for the pay and just to kill, soem guild TW structures are made around pay

10% goes to funding next TW ie bidding
80% to members
10% to pots, charms etc

removing the TW IS the worst idea ever, the only ppl agreeing it is are those not IN a TW guild, i have seen ppl rage quit a TW guild for not paying their members, plz put ur self in teh shoes of a high lv noncash shoppers and then tell me removing the TW pay was a gud idea

how else can i make money?
TT...mats are cheap
merchanting...hard to do when 35% of ur already dead server left
Farm DQ...dont make me laugh
so wat else do i have to rely on?

Dr_XBow - Archosaur

What I'm asking is that we give this system some time before condemning it for good. There has been a lot of speculation, and the majority of you are very much against it, and that's been noted, believe me.

One of the reasons said for making the drastic changes to the TW system was that guilds are getting too much money and it is raising the gold price in the auction house from the previous ~100k for gold to the current ~400k. As many of the veteran players would know, the gold prices jacked up because of the Anniversary packs, but lets ignore that and say it was the high TW pay system even though the prices were steady for the first year despite the TW pay. So if the gold prices do not change, and TW is not more competitive, and the fake bids don't stop, is it safe to assume that you guys will retract this patch, since it failed at what it was supposed to do?

GHealz - Archosaur

Dr_XBow - Archosaur wrote: »

One of the reasons said for making the drastic changes to the TW system was that guilds are getting too much money and it is raising the gold price in the auction house from the previous ~100k for gold to the current ~400k. As many of the veteran players would know, the gold prices jacked up because of the Anniversary packs, but lets ignore that and say it was the high TW pay system even though the prices were steady for the first year despite the TW pay. So if the gold prices do not change, and TW is not more competitive, and the fake bids don't stop, is it safe to assume that you guys will retract this patch, since it failed at what it was supposed to do?

have they ever been known to FIX and issue?? i have been playing quite a while and they never do

BarbHammer - Heavens Tear

GHealz - Archosaur wrote: »

have they ever been known to FIX and issue?? i have been playing quite a while and they never do

They used to back before the first Anniversary Packs..Now it's a myth.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear

GHealz - Archosaur wrote: »

i will be out till this patch changes as well, and i am serious here that text IS a health hazard, i showed it to my optometrist she said dont read that ever again, it causes way too much strain on a person's eye, yes i do have certified 20/20 vision with no cases or sight problems or eye strain....till this patch came out

This patch came out, and a person with 20/20 vision spent money to go to the eye doctor just to prove that this game has health hazards? Furthermore, are you taking the advice of your doctor and not even logging on? I mean not even logging on at all?

ScarletOwl - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think the reward change and the anonymous bidding are good changes for TW, the rewards should never be mostly money but stuff that helps with making better gear.

I agree with this. Instead of money they could give out maybe (randomly) dragon orbs, socket stones (which u need 1k of for legendary high gears) and other stuff that would be beneficial to the winners. Like kind of they did with the nien beast event. All I ever got was an estorica, every time. But hey thats one less thing I had to pay for and it was free so I loved it!

Thumbs up ScarletOwl, good idea.