double aggression on Flesh Ream /barb skills

Traz - Dreamweaver

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

That's because wizards aren't made to DPS. You're comparing a sprinter to a marathon runner.

so 5.0s with FC gold fists not refined or sharded have any business taking aggro more then a neon purgatory +12 wizzy? logical b:bye

Asperitas - Lost City

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so 5.0s with FC gold fists not refined or sharded have any business taking aggro more then a neon purgatory +12 wizzy? logical b:bye

How does being able to maintain aggro from a +12 wizard entitle you to being able to maintain aggro from a permasparked person?

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

How does being able to maintain aggro from a +12 wizard entitle you to being able to maintain aggro from a permasparked person?

OHHHHHH perma spark nerf .... O___________O

Spark cooldowns are too fast now that I figured. Maybe 1-2 mins cooldown would be more reasonable. That is the problem I think. I spark easily,

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

OHHHHHH perma spark nerf .... O___________O

Spark cooldowns are too fast now that I figured. Maybe 1-2 mins cooldown would be more reasonable. That is the problem I think. I spark easily,

Doesn't needing cd kinda defeat the purpose of needing chi for it?

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doesn't needing cd kinda defeat the purpose of needing chi for it?

What about any skill that needs chi? every skill has a cooldown =/

(not supporting yulk's point or anything btw ...)

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Doesn't needing cd kinda defeat the purpose of needing chi for it?

Are you joking or what? Perma sparking is OP, and I face roll on my keyboard and get sparks like nothing. Seriously, its too easy to spark burst, with or without intervals

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are you joking or what? Perma sparking is OP, and I face roll on my keyboard and get sparks like nothing. Seriously, its too easy to spark burst, with or without intervals

Oh Yulk, being a doucher once again I see.

So now, according to you, perma-sparking is OP, archers have better DPS by spamming skills, level 29 chi-waste skills are the ****, level 45 is the epitome of PK epicness, and a few other things.

How rich.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh Yulk, being a doucher once again I see.

So now, according to you, perma-sparking is OP, archers have better DPS by spamming skills, level 29 chi-waste skills are the ****, level 45 is the epitome of PK epicness, and a few other things.

How rich.

welcome back b:chuckle

Islamey - Dreamweaver

So now, according to you, perma-sparking is OP

So wait...perma sparking isn't OP?
I was under the impression that it was OP, along with interval of course.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So wait...perma sparking isn't OP?
I was under the impression that it was OP, along with interval of course.

Perma-sparking is not OP as such. Why?

Perma-sparking is the product of something OP. I.E 5aps, which is broken because of interval and thus incredibly overpowered. Without the OP ability to build up two (or, more commonly, three, but let's make the exception for poor little Yulk) sparks so that you can spark again practically the instant your current spark effects run out, perma-sparking wouldn't be possible.

So, technically, perma-sparking is not OP, it is the product and result of something OP. b:bye

Islamey - Dreamweaver

So perma-sparking is not OP if you do it without 5 aps?

5 aps -> perma-sparking -> OP
then 5 aps is OP by transitivity relation.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So perma-sparking is not OP if you do it without 5 aps?

Gratz at failing reading comprehension my friend.

Guess you totally missed the part where I said perma-sparking (as in you can spark the instant your initial spark effects run out) is, pretty much, the result of something OP. For triple spark in particular, because who the hell perma-sparks single or double spark, perma-sparking isn't fully possible as we know it without some form of -interval (and therefore broken/OP) gear.

Now then, go learn to read, and then come back, okay?

-edit-
And yes, 5aps is OP. I never denied 5aps being OP anywhere.

Islamey - Dreamweaver

perma-sparking isn't fully possible as we know it without some form of -interval (and therefore broken/OP) gear.

I've got 0 interval and I can perma spark b:surrender.

And yes, 5aps is OP. I never denied 5aps being OP anywhere.

Read harder.
The relation is that
5 aps is perma-sparking
perma-sparking is OP
therefore, 5 aps is OP by transitivity.

This relation proves that your basic assumption is flawed.
perma-sparking itself is OP, not 5 aps.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Read harder.
The relation is that
5 aps is perma-sparking
perma-sparking is OP
therefore, 5 aps is OP by transitivity.

This relation proves that your basic assumption is flawed.
perma-sparking itself is OP, not 5 aps.

5aps is OP enough without needing to permaspark constantly.

Failure logic on your part claiming 5aps is not OP and that perma-sparking is. And if that is the logic you're working by, I'm not even going to bother telling you how wrong you are. XD

Islamey - Dreamweaver

How about you back those statements with logic rather than dismissal.

And also, 5 aps without spark can be dealt with.
You can't kill charmed barbs with 5 aps without spark.
5 aps is powerful, but it doesnt break the game.
Its only when you toss perma-spark in that everything becomes broken.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How about you back those statements with logic rather than dismissal.

And also, 5 aps without spark can be dealt with.
You can't kill charmed barbs with 5 aps without spark.
5 aps is powerful, but it doesnt break the game.
Its only when you toss perma-spark in that everything becomes broken.

Okay, so. Let's put it simply.

5aps without needing to spark or perhaps genie skill (thinking of Relentless Courage here but I have no idea what the attack rate increase is) then that to me is OP. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but it's impossible to reach.

On this basis, you need to spark in order to reach 5aps. This means that:
Sparking is the cause of 5aps.

Because you are then able to regain chi at an immensely fast rate with 5aps to the point you can spark again afterwards with nearly no time penalty between your sparks, this means permasparking is the result of 5aps. You got your facts mixed up. 5aps itself is not the result of permasparking, it's the result of one spark.

Which then leads to the ability to permaspark. Get it now? Permasparking is the result of the OP ability to spark, hit 5aps and build chi so quickly you can triple spark repeatedly with no interval between your sparks.

-edit-
So in it's own way permasparking could be classed as OP, but technically it is the 5aps and, therefore, the immense chi-gain, that is actually OP, because without that kind of attack speed permasparking would be impossible for nearly the entire game and nearly the entire community.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How about you back those statements with logic rather than dismissal.

And also, 5 aps without spark can be dealt with.
You can't kill charmed barbs with 5 aps without spark.
5 aps is powerful, but it doesnt break the game.
Its only when you toss perma-spark in that everything becomes broken.

Agree with you. I'd rather be hit at 5aps without spark then with. The damage increase is just insane.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Agree with you. I'd rather be hit at 6aps without spark then with. The damage increase is just insane.

If you achieve 6aps at all I'd like to know which game files you ****. >.> (Heee, caught before the ninja edit. XD )

But still, on that note. 5aps without sparks would be far more manageable, but as far as I'm aware it's not yet possible. And because of this it means 5aps is going to be the result of a spark.

Islamey - Dreamweaver

On this basis, you need to spark in order to reach 5aps. This means that:
Sparking is the cause of 5aps.

You dont need spark to reach 5 aps.
Your argument is invalid. You should know this as an archer.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you achieve 6aps at all I'd like to know which game files you ****. >.> (Heee, caught before the ninja edit. XD )

But still, on that note. 5aps without sparks would be far more manageable, but as far as I'm aware it's not yet possible. And because of this it means 5aps is going to be the result of a spark.

LOL 6 was a typo. I was eating a pancke while typing with one hand.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You dont need spark to reach 5 aps.
Your argument is invalid. You should know this as an archer.

Says you, who provides absolutely no evidence that 5aps is possible without sparking. Oh, and genie skills as well (as if you read, I included those in my posts.)

As a 93 archer I do not have all pieces of -int gear available and as an archer who will never be able to heavily CS, I'm not going to be able to get all necessary pieces to be able to hit 5aps with sparks. You should stop stereotyping everybody of one class.

So, since you're being so class specific about this, give your own evidence much like you demanded of me. Show me the build - the achievable build BTW - where an archer achieves 5aps with no sparking and no genie skills. (This leaves them with only gear and quickshot to hit 5aps and if your build utilises fists or claws then you would have to assume that quickshot is unavailable to use, or that the 5aps does not last for very long because quickshot's buff isn't even half a minute long.)

-edit-

Pancakes?
That is a very acceptable excuse, Aubree. Very acceptable indeed. XD

Islamey - Dreamweaver

Says you, who provides absolutely no evidence that 5aps is possible without sparking. Oh, and genie skills as well (as if you read, I included those in my posts.)

I didn't think I had to say this because its common knowledge.
Just ask chezedude. Hes a 5 aps sage fist archer.

Aubree - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If you achieve 6aps at all I'd like to know which game files you ****. >.> (Heee, caught before the ninja edit. XD )

But still, on that note. 5aps without sparks would be far more manageable, but as far as I'm aware it's not yet possible. And because of this it means 5aps is going to be the result of a spark.

You can reach over 6aps though, chezedude would have had it if the cap wasn;t 5.
But you can;t ask him cause he no longer plays... miss you cheezey.

Yulk - Heavens Tear

Lol Aryll, fail altogether, I 4-5 shot mobs, sometimes 2 with sparking easily. I easily kill mobs before they reach me when I spark as a range class with occasional skill spam. I spark on barb the second most currently and assassins have that OP tackling slash.

Spark makes things boring and you say "just press tab and auto attack" easy to do as a BM and veno or perma sparking. I think you fail as an archer to not know that spark isn't OP.

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Says you, who provides absolutely no evidence that 5aps is possible without sparking. Oh, and genie skills as well (as if you read, I included those in my posts.)

As a 93 archer I do not have all pieces of -int gear available and as an archer who will never be able to heavily CS, I'm not going to be able to get all necessary pieces to be able to hit 5aps with sparks. You should stop stereotyping everybody of one class.

So, since you're being so class specific about this, give your own evidence much like you demanded of me. Show me the build - the achievable build BTW - where an archer achieves 5aps with no sparking and no genie skills. (This leaves them with only gear and quickshot to hit 5aps and if your build utilises fists or claws then you would have to assume that quickshot is unavailable to use, or that the 5aps does not last for very long because quickshot's buff isn't even half a minute long.)

-edit-

Pancakes?
That is a very acceptable excuse, Aubree. Very acceptable indeed. XD

Airyll, you clearly do not know about aps and int gears at all. Perhaps it is time for you to "gracefully" make your exit, before you get embarassed any further.

Hint to the answer you are looking for, "chezedude" (might be wrong spelling xD)

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Islamey - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I didn't think I had to say this because its common knowledge.
Just ask chezedude. Hes a 5 aps sage fist archer.

So you can't provide your own evidence? Good job. I know plenty of archers who hit 5aps, but I don't sit and study them to work out whether it's sparked 5aps or not, nor how many thousands they pump into the game to reach that state.

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You can reach over 6aps though, chezedude would have had it if the cap wasn;t 5.
But you can;t ask him cause he no longer plays... miss you cheezey.

If attack speed wasn't capped at 5aps then I can think of several players who would probably exceed the 5aps limit. And I did wonder where Cheze had gone. Shame he's quit.

Yulk - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Lol Aryll, fail altogether, I 4-5 shot mobs, sometimes 2 with sparking easily. I easily kill mobs before they reach me when I spark as a range class with occasional skill spam. I spark on barb the second most currently and assassins have that OP tackling slash.

Spark makes things boring and you say "just press tab and auto attack" easy to do as a BM and veno or perma sparking. I think you fail as an archer to not know that spark isn't OP.

Lol Yulk
Permaspark =/= 4-5 shot mobs.

If you're going to say that permaspark is OP, first of all you'd better be at the level where permasparking (which is typically considered to be triple spark, for the record) is possible. AKA, come back when you're 89 and able to triple spark.

Secondly, spark is there to give a huge boost to power. It's not their to be OMFG OP GAME BREAKING. The fact you're sitting here telling everybody about how you five shot mobs at level 47 isn't any evidence to your case that it's apparently OP either. -facepalm- Sparking is not OP because ranged classes can, with proper preparation, kite sparked melee users, and generally once the initial resist of a spark has warn off you can still deal damage and potentially kill the sparkee.

Sorry Yulk, you failed. Try again. This was a discussion about permaspark, not about how many mobs you can kill in four shots because you sparked.

BTW. For the last time.
*Airyll. Learn to spell, please.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Airyll, you clearly do not know about aps and int gears at all. Perhaps it is time for you to "gracefully" make your exit, before you get embarassed any further.

Hint to the answer you are looking for, "chezedude" (might be wrong spelling xD)

Lylfo, you clearly do not know how to come in and post a valid argument, which you've failed to do for the duration of this ENTIRE thread. Perhaps it's time for you "gracefully" make your exit, before you get told by even more people how you don't know what you're talking about regardless of the topic any further.

Hint: since apparently you can't read, "chezedude" is not an answer because
1) he's quit
2) I'm not here talking to chezedude, I'm talking to you. And you're either unable or just lazy to bother to go and back up your theories. =3

Lylfo - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Lylfo, you clearly do not know how to come in and post a valid argument, which you've failed to do for the duration of this ENTIRE thread. Perhaps it's time for you "gracefully" make your exit, before you get told by even more people how you don't know what you're talking about regardless of the topic any further.

Hint: since apparently you can't read, "chezedude" is not an answer because
1) he's quit
2) I'm not here talking to chezedude, I'm talking to you. And you're either unable or just lazy to bother to go and back up your theories. =3

Chezedude is the evidence. 1st question, is cheze a sage or demon archer?
2nd, which spark gives attack speed and which spak gives damge reduction?

I don't know which answer you do not know lol. Don't blame your own failures on others. If 3 people can say taht you are wrong, even if Islamey and I lack credibility., Aubree is some big shot in Eq(meant that in a good way), she should know about end game stuff

Look at you, only level 93, most int gears are 95+.

Just stop, it is getting painful to talk to you.

Islamey - Dreamweaver

Sigh heres the evidence.

So you can't provide your own evidence? Good job. I know plenty of archers who hit 5aps, but I don't sit and study them to work out whether it's sparked 5aps or not, nor how many thousands they pump into the game to reach that state.

i'll put the gears on one by one so you can understand.
Lunar claws - 1.67
Rank 8 chest - 2
TT99 Bracer - 2.5
TT99 Boots - 2.86
Energetic Robe - 3.33
Nirvana Leggings - 4
TT99 ornaments - 5 aps

I'm not saying its reasonable or anything, but

Says you, who provides absolutely no evidence that 5aps is possible without sparking. Oh, and genie skills as well (as if you read, I included those in my posts.)

But you're totally wrong.

Now going back to your previous arguement

On this basis, you need to spark in order to reach 5aps. This means that:
Sparking is the cause of 5aps.

It turns out *gasp* you dont need spark to reach 5 aps! Therefore Sparking is not the cause of 5 aps.

You can either be a troll or be intelligent, but when you try be both, you're not much better than Lylfo or Yulk.

Kupuntu - Sanctuary

Lylfo - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Chezedude is the evidence. 1st question, is cheze a sage or demon archer?
2nd, which spark gives attack speed and which spak gives damge reduction?

I don't know which answer you do not know lol. Don't blame your own failures on others. If 3 people can say taht you are wrong, even if Islamey and I lack credibility., Aubree is some big shot in Eq(meant that in a good way), she should know about end game stuff

Look at you, only level 93, most int gears are 95+.

Just stop, it is getting painful to talk to you.

She failed once and now she's fail, yet it took you 40+ pages to acknowledge something and that's okay?