Is this game better before or after the implement of tideborns?

Demetrios - Harshlands

I voted before only because things get so unbalanced so easily. I mean it's nice to see new content don't get me wrong, but I'd like to see more fixes first before anything =/.

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

Take away Sandstorms accuracy reduction and make it give me 150 chi.b:sad

Please?

Mrvate - Heavens Tear

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Archer is ranged, Sin is melee, ranged has advantage over melee's for obvious reasons (except 1v1).

Thats true ranged does have an advantage, but the disadvantage of melee class's is ranged class's which you have no problem covering with your tele to target. Not to mention archer then has alot of disadvantages to have that range. like they fire slowly, they have less survivability then sins, and there dmg gets cut if they don't keep that range.

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Shadow Jump wouldn't help because of lag, you can't use a skill instantly after you 'port', if the enemy jumps non stop, it won't help.

The only skill that can be used in this case is Shadow Teleport, but it has 180 second CD and the sin wasted before for the stun lock, as we discussed.

so your answer to a sin stealthing is jump around like an idiot until your pretty sure sin is gone or he attempts again once his shadow teleport has cooled down?

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

you're not really saying your opinion when you start naming what this game is about and what devs planned, as if you're 100% right and that's a fact. Like when you say that chi is supposed to be gotten hard just because of other classes.

Mana isn't supposed to be this easy obtainable like the venomancer who uses 0 pots because of transfusion! QQ

Health shouldn't be this easy obtainable like the cleric healing himself! QQ

That's how the sin class is supposed to be, which is why they added those chi skills in the first place. Saying that it's a FACT they should be removed only makes you look ridiculous. Your opinion is that they are OP, which is ok, but you also mention as a FACT that CHI IS SUPPOSED TO BE HARD TO GET, therefore you call the devs stupid that they gave this class chi skills to make it easy to obtain? Get real.

Honestly you don't think chi is supposed to be hard to get, and your comparing it to mana or hp. There is a large difference on the obtainability of mana/hp compared to chi. mana and hp both have pots which have 10sec cooldown or charms which make it even easier to have full hp and mp at all times. chi though, aside from genie your looking at apoth pots which have 2min cooldowns. so really, yes. Chi -should- be hard to get.

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

I saw smart barbs using Invoke and turning to human for damage.

Again be smart and develop strategies instead of QQing, they are there. I'm sure most people who can't be arsed to think a bit, would use Invoke and then tiger form only, because hey you can't mix and match the skills.

And of course I think it's obvious that a barb in open PvP area should start as tiger form because of extra defense if you get attacked from surprise.

Good job at taking my words out of context by leaving out the "they both cost 2 sparks" part at the end there. But multiple problems in what your saying, biggest problem being what are none barbs supposed to do to kill you? another problem with barb invoking, is he then also has slow effect on him. making it really easy to run away (or stealth ) until barbs invoke is gone. And as others said, arma isn't really a do all end all skill, it's an ulti and sure it hits hard. and might take most of ones hp pool. but like most class's ulti's they shouldn't be 1-hitting you if they do, you should focus more on you armorb:chuckle.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Gaiz , gaiz ... Asheera doesn't even pvp in RT as he/she already claimed + is in RT's top faction and their not getting any good TWs anytime soon but 5-10 min steamrolls . Not to mention not having any previous characters . Everything coming him/her is based on assumptions alone with 0 actual field experience .

Need I say more ?

Longknife - Harshlands

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

Gaiz , gaiz ... Asheera doesn't even pvp in RT as he/she already claimed + is in RT's top faction and their not getting any good TWs anytime soon but 5-10 min steamrolls . Not to mention not having any previous characters . Everything coming him/her is based on assumptions alone with 0 actual field experience .

Need I say more ?

Well that's apparent from her posts.

Asheera - Raging Tide

@Longknife:

sigh

1) I never said anyone sucks (at PvP or anything else)
2) I never attacked anyone, or does replying in a civilized manner with opposite views count as attacking? What are forums for then?
3) I didn't insult or used offensive words but you did from your first reply to me. Lots of cusses also.
4) Are you mad? And what for? We're just discussing here, not that I'm the developer, and you get raged for every of my posts even though none of mine insulted anyone whatsoever.
5) Only childish and immature persons get so mad over an internet discussion especially when the other one didn't insult you, but just had different views. Instead of "are you ****ing kidding me" and insulting the other member you could have said "that's a very bad idea because"
6) The pictures there also show how childish you are, ridiculing a point I was trying to make. If it's too hard for your immature brain to comprehend, read that cleric's post and see how it's possible to reply without resorting to childish attempts.
7) If you look at the others posting at least they didn't insult and cuss or get mad, I didn't mind debating with them. But you, rage more kid. Will help you a lot definitely b:pleased

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

I'd love to hear your source on this.

Is that a joke or you're really this childish?

Source is called open game, roll a sin and see the skills devs implemented. Numbers may not be always balanced but the general idea of a skill is what they wanted for the class (the description of the skills you see on the tree)


Oh and yes I agree Tackling Slash also shouldn't give chi, since it already immobilizes.

Mrvate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so your answer to a sin stealthing is jump around like an idiot until your pretty sure sin is gone or he attempts again once his shadow teleport has cooled down?

Well yes that was just a response to an argument that Shadow Escape provides a better stun lock, which it does not, it only resets battle if you're not a sitting duck waiting for next stuns.


And @TheMagicPimp:
I don't have 0 PvP experience but didn't fight much, true.

On the other hand let me tell you a funny story.

Another game I played, every "pro" PvPer especially mage was QQing about scouts because they were apparently OP. Obviously the game was still young not like PWE and devs were more willing to listen to forums. And you know, forums = 90% of these "pro" QQers, other people usually stay in game only.

Then they nerfed scouts and it was apparent they were very underpowered now. Nobody was QQing anymore except a few scouts who visited forums for being so weak.

After more months scouts get a little boost but mages a lot of nerf (remember most of those "pro" QQers were mage). Game was much more balanced than before except mages a bit weak, and I loved it how the QQers got it now opposite for their QQ xD

My point is those self-called "pro" people don't have the best ideas of balance. And that's because, while they have both good and bad experiences, they mostly say the bad ones making other classes look OP. And on top of that, they base everything on experience with their big ego, and won't even think or realize how it will become with the nerfs.


Anyway I'm losing too much time replying in this thread which is pointless. Obviously the "pro" PvPers know what they're talking about, let them **** this game even more. I seriously hope it won't happen same as that other game I played.

Quilue - Sanctuary

look at people's levels and gears already. this game is anything but "young" and people have reached endgame. tideborn has been out for months. you're not even 9x, talking as if barbs routinely 1 shot people with arma

also, i saw a **** barb invoke then go human form to try to fight, only to have the other player just fly away from him. what makes you think assassin is dead as soon as their opponent come out of stun lock? do you have any idea how high barbs and bms actually hit? do you even duel?

light armor does suck but you can still have respectable physical defense fully buffed at least. with a charm, you should be able to take hits and at least run until the next charm tick unless they zerk crit or something. or you know what? how do you think archers fight heavies then? when a bm holy paths to an archer's face the archer is dead amirite? need stealth nao!

maybe people here speak too soon, but at least they're much much much much more experienced than you are

ElderSig - Dreamweaver

You know Asheera, you continue to say that sins aren't OP, but then you go and agree with almost every nerf to their skills suggested so far.

So.. where do you really stand?

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh and yes I agree Tackling Slash also shouldn't give chi, since it already immobilizes.

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Also I wouldn't mind removing the spark given from Shadow Escape tbh I also find it a bit stupid, but it's not game breaking either.

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

I agree spark in stealth is stupid, and the chi gaining skills could do with some nerf

Longknife - Harshlands

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You know Asheera, you continue to say that sins aren't OP, but then you go and agree with almost every nerf to their skills suggested so far.

So.. where do you really stand?

She doesn't stand, bro.

She jumps.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

She doesn't stand, bro.

She jumps.

I lol'd irl b:laugh .

Esuna - Raging Tide

Interesting thread. My signature should explain any case made against Fish people.

BRB leveling Assassin.

In any case, Assassin's OPness goes beyond gaining chi for certain skills. Nerfing some of them would just make them use spark pots more often or hit some mobs in the vicinity before they go in for the next kill. The whole issue here is that the Chi they have gives them incredible skills to use. Even going as far as empowering a very powerful AoE genie skill past it's pre-TB damage treshold (Bramble Rage).

Legend - Raging Tide

Asheera pro b:chuckle

CoN_Artist - Harshlands

PlumDumb - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Before..why? cause we dont need the tideborns.Both classes are weak and useless jsut stick to archers,barbs,wiz,bm,veno and lovely clerics they all get the jobs done a whole lot more...plus seems most psy and sins have to be cash shopped to actually be decent..and oracle nubs.If my friend wasnt a psy i wouldnt bring him along in parties,and if my friend didnt spend some time getting to 88 (the normal way)i would tell him to reroll to something elseb:laugh

yeah so cry tide cry..b:cry

as of ruin the game..uhh hmmm anni packs,tiger packs,tons of oracles to make..stuff liek that

You are what your character name is.

Asheera - Raging Tide

ElderSig - Dreamweaver wrote: »

You know Asheera, you continue to say that sins aren't OP, but then you go and agree with almost every nerf to their skills suggested so far.

So.. where do you really stand?

If there wasn't that rage going on between some particular member and me, you'd know I'm not completely unreasonable bashing anyone who suggests nerfs.

Removing chi from tackling & shadow escape is not bad considering it's a bit stupid they give in the first place when they are good skills already. Still I don't think this makes us really OP, a bit stronger than usual yes but not OP to decimate everything.

Oh and stealth I mentioned countless times I'd prefer no buffs allowed in stealth etc. Yes this is OP and here I agree, and always did.

MoonUsagi - Heavens Tear

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh and stealth I mentioned countless times I'd prefer no buffs allowed in stealth etc. Yes this is OP and here I agree, and always did.

OMG totally agree b:victory so true . . o.o . . stealth shouldn't allow other things than invisible.
(so prepare the buff before goes stealth) If that was the nerf then there no more sudden spark attack, which become most people (pk situation) complains i guess . .
Asheera you were really a assassin. b:laugh

Sint - Harshlands

Everything Asheera has said, done, insinuated, attempted to argue, or sat on, so far, is ridiculous. Free chi should not exist. if devs really wanted things to be cast at the drop of a hat, they would have lowered the chi requirement.

A point you seem unable to comprehend: ULTIS are skills that should be hard to use; something that requires planning. sins made ultis and sparks common fare in pvp.

Now, for Asheera's all skills have ailments or area argument:

Quickshot
Deadly Shot
Take Aim
Lightning Strike

______

Winged Pledge (close range)
BoA (Repeats)

Sins are the closes thing to archers, both being dex based la dds. Now, please, explain how having more range, more chi, stealth, 5 more seconds of stun (wich doesnt fail), silence, atkspeed reduction (there goes the 5aps fist argument), longer immobilize (archer imobilize also COSTS a spark) a 25% chance to avoid skills, a 50% chance to avoid ailments, a buff to avoid being 1shot, and base dmg comparable to an archer's is not op.


He'res an outrageous example:

2 Wizards and a Barb Conspire to kill a Sin. Both Wizards pop a CE to drop a Celestial Sparked BIDS, the barb uses ToP + Armageddon.

Suppose a barb has a 50% chance to hit the sin with Armaggedon.

He misses. One of the Wizies has his BIDS do 1 dmg, the other hits, but Deaden Nerves saves the sin's ****.

The sin player comes back from making himself a sammidge and presses stealth button.



Here's another:

A demon archer foolishly believes he can get the first hit on a sin with his +range bow. The sin shadow teleports into his face. And pwns him.

Asheera - Raging Tide

We got weakest AoEs and no continuous ones.

We have weaker stuns than BMs (Drake Bash stuns for 6 sec and cost 1 spark and 15 sec cooldown not 5/2/30 like Headhunt, then there's Roar of the Pride another 6 sec stun which is also AoE on top of it (useful in group fights both in Pve and Pvp))

So BMs can stun you for 12 sec every 15 sec using 135 chi. Sins have it a lot worse except "first time" you stun because of 30 sec cooldown on headhunt + much more chi requirements (2 spark headhunt versus 1 Drake Bash, 1 spark throatcut/shadow teleport versus 35 chi Roar of Pride)

BMs can also do great DPS when using fists, and wear heavy armor and have nice buffs as well (to defense etc)

We also have weaker AoE amplify and weaker AoEs than BMs.


We have no continuous AoEs or any reaaally useful buffs for the party, which makes us the most unwanted class in any groups (PvE or PvP alike)


You have your superiority as archer with BoA (not only useful in PvE but in TW too) and shooting from distance (matters in groups, not single). BMs have their superiority too from higher survival + better AoEs + better stuns overall (without taking into account our chi gains). Wizards have their "1 hit" specialties + Zhen and can buff themselves nicely to be less squishy. And I'm sure but I won't go on that every class is good in some aspect. Sins, are most efficient in 1v1 especially against squishies, and we kinda suck at other aspects. If you really really care only about 1v1 and ignore all the other possibilities and areas of this game then I don't get why you don't roll a sin, the class you're interested in?

Some ppl make "cata barbs" which are useful as meatshields (either in TW leading catas or in PvE tanking), others make their barb more damage oriented and suitable for PvP. You chose an archer or w/e knowing you didn't pick the best class in 1v1, but more useful with range & BoA for example. If you only care about 1v1 why you didn't roll a sin then, that fits you more?


Our specialty for being sub-par on everything compared to other classes is high chi gains and stealth. Take our chi skills and we'll be below average on everything and wanted even less, our only good point will be stealth. Nerf our stealth too and we'll be nothing more than "scouts" getting owned most of the time.



And if ultis are supposed to be so hard to use why this low cooldown on them? Think a bit >.>

Lyritha - Heavens Tear

I think the game is broken as is... I mean you cannot even get every skill as a blademaster or it will not fit in your active skills list. I think that for this game to be fair every class needs new skills. Also it could use a little bit of dosage in the fun department... playing a tideborn is quick and easy to level... and you're not running around all hell to get quests done from lv1-20 like the other classes.

I think the game needs some serious change.... and not any that benefits one class over the other.

Sint - Harshlands

i'll use this obnoxious red note your fails, yeah?

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

We got weakest AoEs and no continuous ones.

We have weaker stuns than BMs (Drake Bash stuns for 6 sec and cost 1 spark and 15 sec cooldown not 5/2/30 like Headhunt, then there's Roar of the Pride another 6 sec stun which is also AoE on top of it (useful in group fights both in Pve and Pvp))

So BMs can stun you for 12 sec every 15 sec using 135 chi. Sins have it a lot worse except "first time" you stun because of 30 sec cooldown on headhunt + much more chi requirements (2 spark headhunt versus 1 Drake Bash, 1 spark throatcut/shadow teleport versus 35 chi Roar of Pride)

Sin first time stuns last 8 seconds, with seal, that's 12 seconds. 10 seconds is a charm tick. if you fight a charmed player and you dont kill him/her after the first charm tick, you're probably not going to kill him.

How do you propose to get 135 chi per 15 seconds with a bm? rage pots?
A bm is not guaranteed to actually have that much chi at any given time. A sin is, unless you wait for him to burn Shadow escape, Harmony, RDS and Tackling slash, and then waste that chi, before you hit him/her. Besides, sins do way more dmg.

BMs can also do great DPS when using fists, and wear heavy armor and have nice buffs as well (to defense etc)

great dps with fists in with interval spam only.

We also have weaker AoE amplify and weaker AoEs than BMs.

you have more base dmg, and you crit about 5x more.

We have no continuous AoEs or any reaaally useful buffs for the party, which makes us the most unwanted class in any groups (PvE or PvP alike)

only archers and wizards have continuous aoes (call me when you find some real use for those, other than some instances and TW), neither of those has any real awesome party buffs.

You have your superiority as archer with BoA (not only useful in PvE but in TW too) and shooting from distance (matters in groups, not single). BMs have their superiority too from higher survival + better AoEs + better stuns overall (without taking into account our chi gains).why shouldnt i take them into account? Wizards have their "1 hit" specialties + Zhen and can buff themselves nicely to be less squishy. And I'm sure but I won't go on that every class is good in some aspect. Sins, are most efficient in 1v1 especially against squishies, and we kinda suck at other aspects. If you really really care only about 1v1 and ignore all the other possibilities and areas of this game then I don't get why you don't roll a sin, the class you're interested in?

I rolled my archer before sins came out. Archers and wizzies were pvp classes back then. neither archers nor wizzies ever killed someone without leaving a dmg log, though. Being efficient in 1v1 is one thing, facerolling all arcanes and most LA whenever they dont 1shot you (asuming you dont have deaden nerves on) is something entirely different. If a sin goes invisible on any of those calsses, you pretty much lost, unless you're insanely quick and close to safezone

Some ppl make "cata barbs" which are useful as meatshields (either in TW leading catas or in PvE tanking), others make their barb more damage oriented and suitable for PvP. You chose an archer or w/e knowing you didn't pick the best class in 1v1, but more useful with range & BoA for example. If you only care about 1v1 why you didn't roll a sin then, that fits you more?


Our specialty for being sub-par on everything compared to other classes is high chi gains and stealth. Take our chi skills and we'll be below average on everything and wanted even less, our only good point will be stealth. Nerf our stealth too and we'll be nothing more than "scouts" getting owned most of the time.

Just the ability to demon spark continuously, without even needing interval gear makes you more eficient at dding than wizzies, archers and psychics. How is this subpar?


And if ultis are supposed to be so hard to use why this low cooldown on them? Think a bit >.>

30 seconds is low cooldown? 30 secs are an eternity in 1 v 1 pvp. wth are you talking about? the only people who are not failing severly if they take longer than 30 seconds to kill eachother are charmed barbs and tank bms.

why didnt you have an answer to my archer skill list?

Born_Free - Harshlands

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »

You know there's this other dex class called archer that has less DPS ( not to mention skill dmg ) than you , less survivability and can't stunlock at all . You don't see them instantly vanishing from a battle in order to instantly escape now do you ?


Ijs > . >

Damn right.

It's not the TB that's ruined the game so much...the packs, cash crutchers, oracle spammers, and hyper stone noobs have pretty much screwed us all over. Of course, the OP 'Sins aren't helping the least, but all in all, it's not JUST the TB's fault.

Longknife - Harshlands

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

We got weakest AoEs and no continuous ones.

We have weaker stuns than BMs (Drake Bash stuns for 6 sec and cost 1 spark and 15 sec cooldown not 5/2/30 like Headhunt, then there's Roar of the Pride another 6 sec stun which is also AoE on top of it (useful in group fights both in Pve and Pvp))

So BMs can stun you for 12 sec every 15 sec using 135 chi. Sins have it a lot worse except "first time" you stun because of 30 sec cooldown on headhunt + much more chi requirements (2 spark headhunt versus 1 Drake Bash, 1 spark throatcut/shadow teleport versus 35 chi Roar of Pride)

BMs can also do great DPS when using fists, and wear heavy armor and have nice buffs as well (to defense etc)

NOBODY has as many stuns as BM's. Do you not realize you keep comparing yourself to the best ranked class of that category?

"We don't have as many stuns as BMs." Well who does?

"We don't have range like an Archer." Well who does?

Next you'll be saying "We don't have damage like a Wizard."



Just because a class does beat you in that category does NOT mean you're not overpowered. When you compare STUNS to Bm's, you fail to mention that you actually have more AILMENTS than a BM. Hell, that's probably better, considering a BM falls to his knees if you use stun immunity. If you use stun immunity on a sin, he can just switch to his silence or sleep skills.


No continuous AOEs? Hell, I don't have one either. Neither do Barbs, Clerics (unless you wanna count a healing spell), Venos or BMs.

No reeeeaaally useful buffs for the group? Hell, I don't have one either. Neither do Wizards, Archers or Venos.


Now stop focusing on AOEs for a second. Your argument is and continues to be that sins lack AOEs. Nevermind that you have two rather nice ones for the moment (that 400% weapon damage bonus is only gonna get bigger...), let's focus on this argument as a whole.

You're basically admitting, no, no class can kill a single target as fast as a sin can, and that's what's wrong with your argument. The ability to AOE well does NOT prove a class' power, hence why we don't have a single class that specifically specializes in AOEing and nothing else. Hell, AOEing is very situational and requires an opportunity come up. 1v1? That's always available.

So your argument is basically....

"If the moon and the sun align and Neptune is behind Pluto, then an Archer can do more damage TOTAL among 6 players than a Sin can among 6 players."

Besides that, you leave out this.

Let's say, just for the sake of an example, that a sin can do 6000 damage in one hit, whereas an archer can do 2000 damage in an AOE hit (per three seconds). You're completely leaving out the fact that the archer's AOE is going to have a MUCH harder time out-doing the damage of pots and healing spells, and a particularly harder time passing a charm tick. The archer can very likely AOE without actually getting a kill, and only succeed in being a fairly large annoyance for the targets. All the other targets except the Archer's true target can simply run out of the archer's AOE, unless they're truly busy fighting someone else there. Don't get me wrong, Archers obviously get kills this way. If they're overall more effective than a sin who is completely unreliant on the situation on the battlefield to cast his big hitters though, I'd seriously doubt. (of course no one is completely unreliant, but I mean sins moreso than other classes, due to having stealth, high damage and every ailment on hand)

Do you see how situational that is, and how more damage per hit or per second is simply superior to more damage among various targets? An archer can't rely on that AOE, whereas you can. That AOE does NOT outdamage a person who's actually focusing their hits. Trust me, I know, because I dunno how many BH59 partys I've been in where the archer was bragging about the MASSIVE DAMAGE on that skill, warning the cleric he'd probably pull aggro, and then I pulled aggro. I probably wouldn't pull aggro either if I only used my AOEs, btw, and if I'm not the one to pull aggro, it's always a sin. It's very clear that the TB were built for damage.

You chose an archer or w/e knowing you didn't pick the best class in 1v1, but more useful with range & BoA for example. If you only care about 1v1 why you didn't roll a sin then, that fits you more?

And see, this is exactly what everyone seems to get and you don't. There should NOT be an uncontested 1v1 king. First of all because that's just ridiculous and leads to a class being overpopulated. Hey, what do you know, half of the population is sins. Second, for the reasons I listed above; AOE does not make up for lower damage. If you're in a TW or just out in the open in PK and there's an outrageous Cash-shop-whoar Wizard with a ton of defense that's killing everybody, who are you going to rely on to kill it? The sin of course, because nobody else can kill him in the time it takes his charm to tick.

Being able to AOE well does not prove you are powerful. All it does is prove you have high damage. That's exactly why when I think AOE, I think Wizard, archer, and BM. (BM partly because they AOE stun.

Being able to 1v1 well DOES prove you are powerful. It proves you have both offense AND defense.

Our specialty for being sub-par on everything compared to other classes is high chi gains and stealth. Take our chi skills and we'll be below average on everything and wanted even less, our only good point will be stealth. Nerf our stealth too and we'll be nothing more than "scouts" getting owned most of the time.

Sub-par on everything? Well hell, let's take a look at this, shall we? Keep in mind this list is relative, so high means you have it better off than most classes, low means worse.


HP: Average
MP: Low
HP regen: Average
MP regen: Low
Physical defense: Meh (Average, but LA sucks imo)
Magical Defense: Meh
Accuracy: Very high
Evasion: Highest in game (with Focused mind, otherwise Very High)
Crit rate: Very High
Crit damage: Highest in game
Damage per hit: Very high
Damage per second: Very High and/or Highest in game
Chi bonuses: Highest in game
Stealth level: Highest in game
Detection level: Highest in game
Running speed: Highest in game
Swimming speed: Highest in game
Flying speed: With Wind push, Very High and/or Highest in game. Otherwise average
Attacks per second: Very high
AOE capabilities: Low
Ailment capabilities: Highest in game
Ailment resistance capabilities: Highest in game (Maze steps and Tidal Protection)
Stun capabilities: High (one of only three classes to have two stunners)
Soulforce: Very low
Damage reflection capabilities: Very low
Damage immunity capabilities: High (Focused Mind and stealth)
DoT skill capabilities: Good-High
Healing capabilities: Low
Pet capabilities: Very low
Resurrection capabilities: Low (saying low cause it depends on how someone sees Deaden Nerves. I say it's a heal, personally, so this is Very Low)
Range: Low






There. Anything I missed?

You guys sure are the best at things a lot....

jopy123

sorry gms but you run a bad server i play there and i cant beilve my eyes when i see the spam of racism and languaage an lies that are here and you do nothin about it its stupid and why people play here is a mystery i have nothin against you guys and pw great game but controll your freakin members do you ever watch world chat is bullchitand whatever wwho cares what i say right **** your game i quit im donne with all these jerks and you gms do nothin about it so whatever go back to my other game pwi is a fail game sorry

Sint - Harshlands

jopy123 wrote: »

sorry gms but you run a bad server i play there and i cant beilve my eyes when i see the spam of racism and languaage an lies that are here and you do nothin about it its stupid and why people play here is a mystery i have nothin against you guys and pw great game but controll your freakin members do you ever watch world chat is bullchitand whatever wwho cares what i say right **** your game i quit im donne with all these jerks and you gms do nothin about it so whatever go back to my other game pwi is a fail game sorry

gtfo already.

Asheera - Raging Tide

lol guys now I mean you both commented on my "sub par" quote which was referring to a sin when you take out our chi gains - and you then commented how we are not sub par because of them (and said we got highest chi gains etc)

that was exactly my point, lol. I said IF you nerf our chi gains we'll be sub par, not that we are now.


About 30 second being high cooldown... honestly I don't get your point now really. If you're limited by the cooldown and not chi, why complain about the chi gains on other classes? If you're limited by chi gains and not cooldown, it means it's too short for how you generate chi, hence my point.

Also another point here is the BM example, to use 135 chi every 15 second to almost stun lock. And you find this ridiculous? I mean if 30 second is a lot for a PvP fight, you need 270 chi which is not even uncommon to get. So I don't get your point...


@LongKnife:
"We don't have as many stuns as BMs." Well who does?

"We don't have range like an Archer." Well who does?

Next you'll be saying "We don't have damage like a Wizard."

Yes and that was my point, I was showing what sins don't have and other classes do. We don't have X, Y, Z, etc, so we lack in that department. What we do have here, even from analyzing your long list, is best chi gains, stealth & detection, and high crit damage/rate. So with taking out our best chi gains and nerfing stealth, what we'll be really good at?

This is excluding not-so-useful stuff like fastest swimming or moving speed (moving speed is actually kinda meh compared to other classes, best but only by a tiny bit)

Also I didn't understand why you put us at the best debuffers?



btw thanks for no more insults etc this discussion seems now much better b:thanks



Now two more examples to try prove you some things guys.


First is... SIN VS SIN FIGHT. You know how this usually goes? One sin gets owned while the other wins easily, depends on who gets first chance to hit (stun)

What does this mean? Would you imply sin is overpowered while sin is underpowered? lol

Sin 1v1 fights are imbalanced here, the above scenario proves it, but imbalanced in the form of two people of similar power having an "ownage" scenario, not imbalanced as the form of one is overpowered and another underpowered.

What I suggest to avoid this imbalance is again, group fights. Because in 1v1 apparently the fight is favored only on the first hitter, while in group fights it changes drastically - it takes one single stun from a 2nd person on the sin to break his stun lock, and nothing else, and the fight will change drastically.



2nd example I'm trying to show is... I dunno I got this feeling a lot of people in here are racists against tideborn, I don't get where all this hate comes from.

Not just sins but psy's too, although this thread focuses mostly on sins I see, but don't worry I saw plenty of psy = OP threads as well.

Why I'm saying racist and this hate? Well, listen a bit more:

I see many times, when a sin is happy he was able to do some accomplishment, like AoEing grinding lots of mobs. Was happy and bragging a bit about that.

Sin: "Yay sins can AoE too, today I managed to AoE grind a lot of mobs with only 2 charm ticks we aren't that useless in AoEing as some say b:victory"

BM: "lol I can do that faster & with no charm ticks."



Sin who got refused in rebirth for a veno: "We have AoE amplify for rebirth we'd help the party a lot, not just a venomancer. Also Bloodpaint and slowing boss's hits"

Veno: "pfft we has Parasitic Nova and amplify on bosses, plus bramble and can shoot from range while you die from boss's AoE >.>"



Sin: "Man I killed so many squishies in this TW was awesome"

Archer: "I killed like 20 at once with a BoA hehe"



Now finally,

Sin: "Woot we can own squishies and archers so fast they don't stand a chance."

Others: "...

(omg we can't do it better)

OMG NERF FFS! QQ"



Why the hate towards fish people? b:surrender That you either have to out-brag them or make them look ridiculous/weak, while when they seem strong in some aspect you cuss at them and want nerf.

Longknife - Harshlands

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Now two more examples to try prove you some things guys.


First is... SIN VS SIN FIGHT.

Ok now you're just trolling. GTFO.

ugysekell

Hm. Before. I really like the TB "Goshiki" chain quests ;P BUT the new classes are kind of overpowered... it's unfair. Some other classes would need improvements (especially Archer and Wizard).

Axemanek - Heavens Tear

beeeefooooreeeee

should i say more?

Longknife - Harshlands

ugysekell wrote: »

Hm. Before. I really like the TB "Goshiki" chain quests ;P BUT the new classes are kind of overpowered... it's unfair. Some other classes would need improvements (especially Archer and Wizard).

Seriously?

I laughed my **** off when Dizzy was like,


"GOSHIIIIKIIIIIIIIIII!!!"

Sint - Harshlands

Sin vs Sin ends in the first stun. Archers have the same armor, and will never get the first stun on a sin in pvp. Aside from that, archer stun lasts 3 seconds (wich is a REASONABLE stun time for a DD) How do you expect an archer or an arcane to tank a sin's dmg (likely sparked in some way) long enough to get out of stun?

Basically, a sin has a MASSIVE, almost insurmountable advantage against any psy, wiz, cleric, veno (except perhaps ha) archer or any sin with a detection lvl lower than his stealth.

Skill doesnt matter anymore. if i get stunlocked by a sin, i can either die or burn my genie and/or my ability to use any apoc pots for the remainder of the fight.
personally, i dont have Expell/AD on the genie i use for grinding, nor am i up to my eyeballs in apoc pots. Even if i were, nothing stops a sin from stealthing and waiting for me to be vulnerable again. Using either of the genie skills i mentioned depletes my energy enough to make my genie essentially useless for at least a minute afterwards. Apoc pots have cooldown also. The sin now has somewhere between 1 and 2 minutes to prepare for his next try. In 1 minute, that sin will have full chi again. My genie, however, will probably still be recovering. My apoc will still be on cooldown.

TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide

Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes and that was my point, I was showing what sins don't have and other classes do. We don't have X, Y, Z, etc, so we lack in that department. What we do have here, even from analyzing your long list, is best chi gains, stealth & detection, and high crit damage/rate. So with taking out our best chi gains and nerfing stealth, what we'll be really good at?

What you have , which is normal for an assassin type class while comparing to others so you won't complain about the " ARCHERS ISH RANGE AND WE ISN'T !" thing and note I'll say what help's the compensate for being melees over ranged :

For being melee users bms got higher defenses & hp , speed skills ,leaps & target controll through stunlocks ;

For being melee users sins got self non-stat reliant evasion buffs , speed skills that are a bit weaker , 2 teleports that are better than leaps , target control as well , much higher skill dmg as well as leaps + stealth .

For being melee users barbs got high as hell hp , pretty high phy yet a laughable mag in return tiger form speed that's constant but slower than your 2 speed skills , and a high damaging physical that can't really be spammed and also also ticks your charm .

Now I've just said what you have in order to compensate for being melee which is normal for an assassin type class .

The limitless chi , sparking in stealth , spark not showing in air & instantly going in stealth while in combat escaping all danger are all extra things you shouldn't have and you have pretty much agreed on most of them that they are OP yourself .

Which is why I won't be posting that much in this thread now since now I know that you pretty much realize what's OP and what's not but something is preventing you from wording it so I'll just be patient and wait for you to realize it b:kiss :P

It's a shame if you don't realize it eventually so I'm hoping you will . Most of the new players now just rush to lvl 100 w/o bothering to discover many of the things the mid-low lvls have to offer which would make you one of the few rare breeds of RT ( in a good way ). An already experienced player can do that and have no issues but new ones that do it , welllllll let's just say they won't make many friends . I'm pretty sure you wouldn't wanna get lvl 100 like your guildie NuBlade and still not realize that hands kill ppl in fc and what not , the list goes on ........