Is this game better before or after the implement of tideborns?
Comments
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Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »No.
The correct terms is, one skill is better and one is worse. Because no one said that skill was overpowered. For BMs or Sins.
The fact is, assassins have a combination of skills that make them "OP". Whoever posted the 3 chi-gain skills pointed this out--you have the ability to quickly recharge chi using those skills, not to mention the increased chi from regular attacks.
Others also pointed out the problem with this: nobody can see your spark when you are in stealth. THIS is the issue, not just one silly comparison of one skill.
Look at the big picture. And people are trying to be as objective as you are, but your proof is hardly all-encompassing and doesn't really say anything other than better/worse.
^^ So pretty much this was a more detailed explanation of what I said .
Asheera I was hoping some1 wouldn't have to say this for you to get it . Stop thinking " SINS ISH NOT OP CUZ OTHAR CLASZ SKILLZ ISHN'T BETTHAR!" . Like pl said , look at the big picture , think of it combo-wise not skill vs skill . Have you ever even pvped vs multiple classes and was put in multiple situations ? Because you say your new to PWI thus meaning you have no previous pvp experience & I never saw you in pvp nor anywhere near where the usual pking goes on in RT .
How can you even talk w/o trying or having no experience ?It's all about LoL,yo.0 -
On the matter of Psys, three things. I bring this up because believe it or not, I don't wanna play an overpowered class:
1) Soulburn needs to be changed to match it's description. Make it only damage the enemy when it attacks YOU. Personally I love how it ticks when clerics heal themselves and I think it makes duels far more interesting, but I see this being an OP issue for TWs. Find a cleric healing someone, soulburn the cleric, the cleric and it's healing target are doomed, just like that. Soulburn is incredibly powerful, as a Psy's Soulforce seems to climb faster than weapon damage. Since this is the case, it's just too freaking powerful when this skill forces the opponent to run like hell for 8 seconds. It'd be ok though if, for example, a cleric could heal it out, a BM or Barb could try to run, a sin could just disappear and wait...As it is now though, casting ANY spell makes Soulburn tick, and holy **** it hurts.
2) Soul of Stunning. This is just a rough estimation, but I would imagine a Psy with fully decked out gear could get up to a 9 second stun. 9 seconds would just be....ridiculous. Hell, 6 is on the line.
3) Soul of Silencing. Again, I would imagine that a Psy with fully decked out gear would have between a 20%-30% chance of silencing the target every time the Psy gets hit. (again, this is a rough estimate) That would be an absolute nightmare; that's a 1 in 5 chance. I'd say 15% max.
However, I do consider these issues very simple to fix so their not such a big issue. They simply need to tweak how much soulforce = 1 second stun or 1% chance of silence and then these will be acceptable. I'm sure that, with time, as a bunch of Psys start getting ahold of better gear, the dev's will realize this and make the adjustments neccesary. For now though, a level 100 Psy with average gear has an acceptable 4-5 second stun and ~10% silence chance.I
AGOREY0 -
I do have experience but not as much as you I agree. I like PvP but not PK, difference is while I'd love some arena or tournament and TWs (organized PvP) I hate random PK when some random people jump on you. I once was white but not anymore because of this, was sucky.TheMagicPimp - Raging Tide wrote: »Asheera I was hoping some1 wouldn't have to say this for you to get it . Stop thinking " SINS ISH NOT OP CUZ OTHAR CLASZ SKILLZ ISHN'T BETTHAR!" . Like pl said , look at the big picture , think of it combo-wise not skill vs skill . Have you ever even pvped vs multiple classes and was put in multiple situations ? Because you say your new to PWI thus meaning you have no previous pvp experience & I never saw you in pvp nor anywhere near where the usual pking goes on in RT.
How can you even talk w/o trying or having no experience ?
1) Have to SL or risk losing stuff
2) It's no fun 90% of the time and you possibly waste charm ticks. I mean if you go at OT and PK ppl there it's organized fights at least, kinda fun. Even though anyone can join and you can end up ganked etc. But random attacks by random cowards when you fight mobs, then run away when your charm ticks... only shows that they want "easy shots" and run away like a chicken when they see you're charmed and it's no longer 1-2 shots from behind.
There was this once... I was farming rabbits for leather and some cleric pops up in my back sleeps and tempest... my charm ticks and he flies away with fast wings when I had my free ones. No chance to catch up.
So much fun lol... yeah right.
Now onto the balance problem:
I was trying to remain neutral, which is analyzing from an outside perspective and not only my own experiences I had in PvP. But don't bet that you from your superior experience you know everything right also, I mean people did the same about nixes, QQed a lot and cried for nerf because they were getting owned (their experiences) and in a few months no more QQs about it because some people starting developing strategies for them.
I don't know I have this feeling if they nerf sparking in stealth (biggest problem imo) after a few months you'll see no more QQs about sins, but people just can't stand losing/dying I guess, oh well.First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
Quit.0 -
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Semi Retired Psychic of Radiance faction//Entering full retirement upon the release of ĠuildẂars2 or an otherwise drastic change in PWI management.
"Exploiting a glitch is a violation of the ToS under User Conduct:
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players"-frankieraye ............guess he changed his mind.0 -
Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »
I was trying to remain neutral, which is analyzing from an outside perspective and not only my own experiences I had in PvP. But don't bet that you from your superior experience you know everything right also, I mean people did the same about nixes, QQed a lot and cried for nerf because they were getting owned (their experiences) and in a few months no more QQs about it because some people starting developing strategies for them.
I don't know I have this feeling if they nerf sparking in stealth (biggest problem imo) after a few months you'll see no more QQs about sins, but people just can't stand losing/dying I guess, oh well.
People did not stop QQ about nixes b/c they got more skilled and found some new amazing strategy's how to fight them...
Its the dev that gave us new tools to handle nixes, which is easy obtainable endgame gear from packs, better hp due to orb sales and of course genies.
The average 90-99+ players attack, hp and phy def have gone up so much after all the packs and orb sales. Nixes on the other hand have not increased in attack, they are the same as they where when they first came out. They don't hurt much anymore and can easily be 2-3 shoot which is why you don't see QQ.
Before anniversary packs, before everyone had Cloud Charger + event cloaks, +6+8+10 refined gear, g14 helmet, Nirvana, cube neck, warsong belt, CV weapon and genies of course, you really did not have a freaking chance against a nix. Just bleed would solo people b/c there was no gear available to survive it if you where AA or LA.
My charm use to auto tick from bleed back when the best gear you could get was like molders and HH90 stuff. Now on the other hand, the dmg from nix + flesh ream is rather pathetic compared to the dmg players deals.
I think something similar will be done with Tideborns, prolly new better gear and better weapons and maybe some new ingame content like genies. Most likely it involve a lot of cash shopping >.<0 -
PWI was better before the Tideborns. I'm not saying the Tideborns ruined the game, but PWI was better before than it is now.0
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I think we can only call Sins/Psychs overpower after see the new skills that will be added and if they won't change the actual ones effects.
As some stuff I read few pages ago, I think BH is great, along with CS and WQ, don't know about most players since we have ppl from all ages but I do college and work so I have max 3 hours free per day, if this game would end in grind a lot of people would stop playing, so these daily events helps a lot ppl like me who doesn't have a lot of avaible time besides weekend and c'mon, who would spent the whole weekend killing thousands of mobs just to catch up what they lose in week ? lol
So far I think daily events should stay, TB balance will come with time and if there's something to be changed, only more options on TB edit and who knows a remodeling for older classes? Males could have better body like TB muscles b:surrender0 -
...ntm male tideborn have nipples.
...just throwing that out there..
>_>"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Semi Retired Psychic of Radiance faction//Entering full retirement upon the release of ĠuildẂars2 or an otherwise drastic change in PWI management.
"Exploiting a glitch is a violation of the ToS under User Conduct:
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players"-frankieraye ............guess he changed his mind.0 -
FateMakerr - Heavens Tear wrote: »...ntm male tideborn have nipples.
...just throwing that out there..
>_>"
So true, so true, I feel like an alien without em lmao.WTB> -12% channeling BELT or RING pm me with link or mail me ingame HT server, ty.0 -
Rumor has it the nipples are really WMD's!Batista (85 Cleric) {Semi-Retired Character}
Venom (55 Venomancer) {Main Character - On Vacation}
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before
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Batista - Dreamweaver wrote: »Rumor has it the nipples are really WMD's!
WMD = Women Magnet Devices?
... which is ironic... considering I'm ****._.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Semi Retired Psychic of Radiance faction//Entering full retirement upon the release of ĠuildẂars2 or an otherwise drastic change in PWI management.
"Exploiting a glitch is a violation of the ToS under User Conduct:
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players"-frankieraye ............guess he changed his mind.0 -
Regarding assassins, two things...
Yesterday I went to do the public quest. Among 20 players, I was in the lead position with a veno close behind me, so I kept monitoring the leader board. Really didn't want to get 2nd again cause there's quite an EXP gap between 1st and 2nd place. After a while I got curious as to what classes excel in public quest and which don't, so I checked the class specific leaderboard.
BMs? Huh that's funny, only two are here. I thought there were a lot more. Anyways, both of them are doing alright.
Barbs? Weird, only three. Well anyways, one is doing good, the others are doing bad.
Wizards? Nope, none here.
Clerics? Again, only one. Doing pretty bad.
Venos? Only one?? Well at any rate, she's giving me a run for my money for 1st place.
Archers? Again, only one. Both doing pretty well.
Psys? Me and another guy. I'm in 1st, he's also doing alright.
So I'm sitting here thinking "wtf?! I thought we were 20 players here..."
Then I hit the Assassin tab. That's where the missing ten players are.
HALF of the people doing public quest were assassins.
It's also worth mentioning that it took me three rounds to secure first place. The two rounds before, I got beat out by assassins. Against that veno, our end scores were like my 3800 to her 3200. The sins from the first two rounds were all knocking on 5000, and I was never anywhere close to passing them.
Furthermore, I dunno if other servers have done this, but on Harshlands we have a guild called Blackfox. I dunno if this is truly their intention, but EVERYTIME I see someone from that guild, they're a sin. I think I've seen one barb in that guild, but other than that, they're all sins. Doesn't seem like they're half bad either, since they seem to jump into PK fights fairly often.
Now, imagine a guild filled solely with Barbs or Wizards. Laughable, right? A barb guild would never be able to damage quick enough, whereas a Wiz guild would drop too quick against mass numbers. A sin guild though, they can do everything. They have damage for offense and stealth for defense. In a PK fight they could all stealth and PK their enemy targets individually.
I simply say this because I believe the population count of each class DOES speak for the classes power to some extent. Yes of course assassins have always been "cool" and every single kid who wants to be "dark" or "evil" will immediately flock to an assassin class no matter how good they are. In my opinion though, that only explains their initial popularity boom. Months later, their population is still booming, and half of my friends have assassins as alt characters.
The other thing is, look at an assassin's skill tree. I can IMMEDIATELY find a deadly combo for assassin. If I look at a Psy or BM skill tree, it takes a bit more thinking and I'll need to come up with different strategies for different enemies. Sin though?
Someone try to find a way to beat this:
Start in stealth mode. Wait out any dangerous-yet-short buffs (stun immunity, physical damage immunity, etc etc.) that your opponent might have. You may use Chill of the Deep to increase your attack level. Once this is done, use Shadow teleport to stun them for three seconds. For as long as they're stunned, attack them however you like. Once stun is down, use Throatcut to silence them for four seconds. Attack them as long as you can, and also activate Inner Harmony. This will give you the chi needed to cast Headhunt. Headhunt will deal massive damage and stun the opponent for another five seconds. Use this five seconds to cast Rising Dragon strike, increasing your chi by 150 alongside a fair amount of damage. Once the stun wears off, use your next move: Within the amount of time that has passed, Throatcut should cool down shortly (maximum wait of 3 seconds after stun wears off), so you can cast it again, effectively silencing the target for another 4 seconds. Use this 4 seconds to cast puncture wound, causing a bleeding effect. You'll want this bleeding effect to do damage as you put the target to sleep for 5 seconds with your remaining 50 chi via Deep Sting (once the silence wears off, of course). Simply wait out the 5 seconds and let the bleed effect deal the damage. Once the five seconds is up, use whatever you like to finish the target off, should the target even be alive at this point....
Now go. I'd like to hear an assassin explain how a class is supposed to counter that, or how any specific class has an effective counter to that.
Look, I'm all for the game giving assassins a bunch of ailments. That's the stereotype of assassins anyways: using poisons and deadly accurate attacks. However, I would love to hear the explanation as to why assassins need 250 free chi points, massive damage and short cooldowns. To me, a sin shouldn't have that free chi, and it's high damage should be available through high crit rate and high crit rate alone; normal hits should suck damage-wise, but if they crit often enough, they make up for this. I mean ffs, they're using daggers, and yet their skills deal higher damage than the majority of Blademaster skills. As things stand now, they have too much damage, too much chi, and some others may be of the opinion that they have too many ailments.I AGOREY0 -
Hello all
this is what i think
Tideborn class are shure something New, pwi got some Refersh form Old Barbs, Bms and so on Veno to..
but i dont like they are not balanced!!
well psy hit Damn fast, Painfull Dmg, skills are damn strong, now coming Deamon/Sage skills
for shure idk what will happend, what psy lv 100 hit crit 300k?
About Assassin
They are Damn Nasty PK ers , own barb, Mag are mostly problem to them but Shadow walk or that teleport stuns and??? they inflict ln 10 sec like 20k dmg and if u add crit's..
they are not balanced yes, Shadow walk can jump on Wyvern's head for fun, and so on....
i have psy lv 70, and barb 53, still veno is fav, but psy got borred lv 59 is last skill!!!!
after that UPGRADE onlyPWI
DW - Server
GoldTiger - LV 100
Faction: ReMiX0 -
you trolling?what psy lv 100 hit crit 300k?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Hypnos - Raging Tide wrote: »you trolling?
You mean we don't???
God damn it. 78 levels, all for nothing...I AGOREY0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »You mean we don't???
God damn it. 78 levels, all for nothing...God damn it. 78 levels, all for nothing......damn it. 78 levels...for nothing...damn it. 78 levels......78 levels...
<= 99 b:cry...78...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Regarding assassins, two things...
Yesterday I went to do the public quest. Among 20 players, I was in the lead position with a veno close behind me, so I kept monitoring the leader board. Really didn't want to get 2nd again cause there's quite an EXP gap between 1st and 2nd place. After a while I got curious as to what classes excel in public quest and which don't, so I checked the class specific leaderboard.
BMs? Huh that's funny, only two are here. I thought there were a lot more. Anyways, both of them are doing alright.
Barbs? Weird, only three. Well anyways, one is doing good, the others are doing bad.
Wizards? Nope, none here.
Clerics? Again, only one. Doing pretty bad.
Venos? Only one?? Well at any rate, she's giving me a run for my money for 1st place.
Archers? Again, only one. Both doing pretty well.
Psys? Me and another guy. I'm in 1st, he's also doing alright.
So I'm sitting here thinking "wtf?! I thought we were 20 players here..."
Then I hit the Assassin tab. That's where the missing ten players are.
HALF of the people doing public quest were assassins.
It's also worth mentioning that it took me three rounds to secure first place. The two rounds before, I got beat out by assassins. Against that veno, our end scores were like my 3800 to her 3200. The sins from the first two rounds were all knocking on 5000, and I was never anywhere close to passing them.
Furthermore, I dunno if other servers have done this, but on Harshlands we have a guild called Blackfox. I dunno if this is truly their intention, but EVERYTIME I see someone from that guild, they're a sin. I think I've seen one barb in that guild, but other than that, they're all sins. Doesn't seem like they're half bad either, since they seem to jump into PK fights fairly often.
Now, imagine a guild filled solely with Barbs or Wizards. Laughable, right? A barb guild would never be able to damage quick enough, whereas a Wiz guild would drop too quick against mass numbers. A sin guild though, they can do everything. They have damage for offense and stealth for defense. In a PK fight they could all stealth and PK their enemy targets individually.
I simply say this because I believe the population count of each class DOES speak for the classes power to some extent. Yes of course assassins have always been "cool" and every single kid who wants to be "dark" or "evil" will immediately flock to an assassin class no matter how good they are. In my opinion though, that only explains their initial popularity boom. Months later, their population is still booming, and half of my friends have assassins as alt characters.
The other thing is, look at an assassin's skill tree. I can IMMEDIATELY find a deadly combo for assassin. If I look at a Psy or BM skill tree, it takes a bit more thinking and I'll need to come up with different strategies for different enemies. Sin though?
Someone try to find a way to beat this:
Start in stealth mode. Wait out any dangerous-yet-short buffs (stun immunity, physical damage immunity, etc etc.) that your opponent might have. You may use Chill of the Deep to increase your attack level. Once this is done, use Shadow teleport to stun them for three seconds. For as long as they're stunned, attack them however you like. Once stun is down, use Throatcut to silence them for four seconds. Attack them as long as you can, and also activate Inner Harmony. This will give you the chi needed to cast Headhunt. Headhunt will deal massive damage and stun the opponent for another five seconds. Use this five seconds to cast Rising Dragon strike, increasing your chi by 150 alongside a fair amount of damage. Once the stun wears off, use your next move: Within the amount of time that has passed, Throatcut should cool down shortly (maximum wait of 3 seconds after stun wears off), so you can cast it again, effectively silencing the target for another 4 seconds. Use this 4 seconds to cast puncture wound, causing a bleeding effect. You'll want this bleeding effect to do damage as you put the target to sleep for 5 seconds with your remaining 50 chi via Deep Sting (once the silence wears off, of course). Simply wait out the 5 seconds and let the bleed effect deal the damage. Once the five seconds is up, use whatever you like to finish the target off, should the target even be alive at this point....
Now go. I'd like to hear an assassin explain how a class is supposed to counter that, or how any specific class has an effective counter to that.
Look, I'm all for the game giving assassins a bunch of ailments. That's the stereotype of assassins anyways: using poisons and deadly accurate attacks. However, I would love to hear the explanation as to why assassins need 250 free chi points, massive damage and short cooldowns. To me, a sin shouldn't have that free chi, and it's high damage should be available through high crit rate and high crit rate alone; normal hits should suck damage-wise, but if they crit often enough, they make up for this. I mean ffs, they're using daggers, and yet their skills deal higher damage than the majority of Blademaster skills. As things stand now, they have too much damage, too much chi, and some others may be of the opinion that they have too many ailments.
small note to longknife:
sins get 500 free chi, and the skills have cooldowns ranging from 15 to 90 seconds. in 90 seconds, a sin could cast harmony twice, cast rising dragon strike thrice, use tackling slash 6 times and shadow escape once.
that is, respectively: 400 chi, 450 chi, 300 chi and 100 chi.
1250 bonus chi in 1 minute does seem slightly... overwhelming.
now this.
suppose your sin is in stealth with full chi.
you see someone your lvl, and decide to pk him.
Celestial Spark > Harmony > Headhunt. By this point, arcanes without godly hp are dead. Archers are likely dead too. If they are not, you still have 5 seconds, right?> Rising Dragon Strike > Subsea Strike > Tackling Slash >Shadow escape > Shadow Teleport > Normal > Normal > Throatcut >Normal till dead.
If you think it's not going to die, run after shadow escape.
To the devs: There was probably a reason other classes need convulted schemes to cast an ulti after celestial rage. if you try this in game, you will see it's perfectly possible to cast the 2 most chi-draining ultis a sin has, within 5 seconds, after 3-spark.0 -
Yamiino - Heavens Tear wrote: »Voted before, for some reasons:
- PWI is now focusing more on tideborn than fixing the other classes issues, for example the timing on 1 hr buffs for clerics (1 example b:chuckle)
- Tideborn atm are kind of unbalanced.
- Why the only class able to hide / cloak is assassin? In other games other classes are able to do this with an special item, it would come handy for a cleric for example. Isn't insane damage + stuns + debuffs not enough for assassin? b:sad
Thats all I can think of for now b:shutup
+1 Stupid magic def buffs keep disappearing .__.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
You overestimated the time between stuns, like when you said in Shadow Teleport stun you can use whatever damage you want for 3 secs.Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »Now go. I'd like to hear an assassin explain how a class is supposed to counter that, or how any specific class has an effective counter to that.
Guess what that gives space to use only 1 skill. Same for Throatcut, if you use two skills the opponent WILL have a time to act before you stun with Headhunt, and most probably he'll stun you instead (unless he's stupid and deserves to lose in this case anyway)
So no it's not THAT great as you make it sound, the durations of stuns aren't that long.
Also love how this is coming from a psy. When you have physical immunity for a good amount of secs (8? don't remember), then you can stun for another 6 (AoE on top of that, more useful in PvE or groups, but meh), then you have soulburn for another good amount of secs, which is instant defeat for the enemy if he does anything, so only option is to wait. Then you can absorb 1 more hit after all this with some skill.
With Black Voodoo on explain how anyone can survive that long against a HUGE damaging class such as psy.
I understand your point a bit but this red part, you're kidding right?Sint - Harshlands wrote: »Celestial Spark > Harmony > Headhunt. By this point, arcanes without godly hp are dead. Archers are likely dead too. If they are not, you still have 5 seconds, right?
You're telling that Headhunt one shots arcanes and even archers? Seriously? Maybe you DD's (including those sins you're talking about here) should stop refining only weapon and ignore the armors. This isn't sin's fault that you prefer to be more squishy than ever by upgrading your damage and not HP.First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
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Asheera he's prolly talking about a sparked headhunt . Don't forget you can use frenzy & extreme poison or tangling mire when you hit that target . Me and Veritas_ whom you should know of were testing out some stuff one day . He managed to 1 shot me with a crit with that exact combo (with CoD on ofc). Even if he's a lv l100 and I'm still in the 8s , I'm a HA user , and not a fist user ( yet ) so I have vit as well . The crit was 6.2k on 8.7k phy res (self buffed, no marrow phy ) . As a HA user of same lvl sure that won't kill ya but what about the squishier classes ? You know those stats are quite to get hard for arcane an user at lvl 100 right ?It's all about LoL,yo.0
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GoldTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »what psy lv 100 hit crit 300k?
I......... I dun get a 1 mil crit at lvl 100?!
Mega Lies! I thought I was sposed to be OPb:sad[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Semi Retired Psychic of Radiance faction//Entering full retirement upon the release of ĠuildẂars2 or an otherwise drastic change in PWI management.
"Exploiting a glitch is a violation of the ToS under User Conduct:
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players"-frankieraye ............guess he changed his mind.0 -
Ah I know what you mean but also why take genie skills into consideration and blame the sin when nobody talks about anti-sin like stun prevention skills for the victim? Kinda unfair imo.First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
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Sint - Harshlands wrote: »small note to longknife:
sins get 500 free chi, and the skills have cooldowns ranging from 15 to 90 seconds. in 90 seconds, a sin could cast harmony twice, cast rising dragon strike thrice, use tackling slash 6 times and shadow escape once.
that is, respectively: 400 chi, 450 chi, 300 chi and 100 chi.
1250 bonus chi in 1 minute does seem slightly... overwhelming.
now this.
suppose your sin is in stealth with full chi.
you see someone your lvl, and decide to pk him.
Celestial Spark > Harmony > Headhunt. By this point, arcanes without godly hp are dead. Archers are likely dead too. If they are not, you still have 5 seconds, right?> Rising Dragon Strike > Subsea Strike > Tackling Slash >Shadow escape > Shadow Teleport > Normal > Normal > Throatcut >Normal till dead.
If you think it's not going to die, run after shadow escape.
To the devs: There was probably a reason other classes need convulted schemes to cast an ulti after celestial rage. if you try this in game, you will see it's perfectly possible to cast the 2 most chi-draining ultis a sin has, within 5 seconds, after 3-spark.
Oh I'm well aware of this. I simply named my strategy because it would be my personal preference: yours shows that a sin can do an overwhelming amount of damage, mine shows a Sin can leave a target absolutely helpless for a damn long time.Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »You overestimated the time between stuns, like when you said in Shadow Teleport stun you can use whatever damage you want for 3 secs.
Guess what that gives space to use only 1 skill. Same for Throatcut, if you use two skills the opponent WILL have a time to act before you stun with Headhunt, and most probably he'll stun you instead (unless he's stupid and deserves to lose in this case anyway)
So no it's not THAT great as you make it sound, the durations of stuns aren't that long.
Also love how this is coming from a psy. When you have physical immunity for a good amount of secs (8? don't remember), then you can stun for another 6 (AoE on top of that, more useful in PvE or groups, but meh), then you have soulburn for another good amount of secs, which is instant defeat for the enemy if he does anything, so only option is to wait. Then you can absorb 1 more hit after all this with some skill.
With Black Voodoo on explain how anyone can survive that long against a HUGE damaging class such as psy.
I understand your point a bit but this red part, you're kidding right?
You're telling that Headhunt one shots arcanes and even archers? Seriously? Maybe you DD's (including those sins you're talking about here) should stop refining only weapon and ignore the armors. This isn't sin's fault that you prefer to be more squishy than ever by upgrading your damage and not HP.
I didn't overestimate ****. I know myself that my 6 second stun on my Psy sadly only buys me two hits, so yeah I can figure out that the sin would only get 1-2 hits in between two skills. But have you checked the damage on each of those skills?
4984 + 6717 + 3442 + 4984 + 4210 + 759.2 + One more free hit of your choice. 25k Physical damage MINIMUM dealt with the skills that I named, all without the opponent being able to do jack.
That's ONLY the skills I specifically named and that's ONLY the damage the skill does itself; that excludes the 100%-200% weapon damage included on 5 of those.
Now, as I recall, my 100% weapon damage + 2k damage skills do 1.2k damage on HA targets and about 600 on AA targets. 100% + 2k is WAAAAY less than what those skills do. Psychics may hit hard and fast, but we don't hit super-hard like a wizard; Assassins are basically the wizards of physical damage, cept they cast waaaay faster, have tons more ailments and always get the first hit in.
And as Sint kindly mentioned above, there's alternatives. My strategy is just one of many. Hell, I didn't even mention that sins have a skill to interrupt channeling, should a magic caster be free of stun/silence for a moment; all the sin has to do is cancel that cast and ta-da, another few seconds bought for the sin. And hell, they can't be stunned or they just....if you use two skills the opponent WILL have a time to act before you stun with Headhunt, and most probably he'll stun you instead (unless he's stupid and deserves to lose in this case anyway)
You have got to be f***ing kidding me. As if stun is an issue for you? What about shadow escape? Did I misunderstand something, or doesn't any ailment allow you guys to simply disappear into thin air? And wtf, you GAIN a spark for using it. Hell, I have a skill that dispels ailments too: it can't be used against stun or silence and I PAY a spark to use it.
Now before I address your claims against Psys, lemme mention one thing.
You haven't made a single argument here that can't be countered. You made a very weak one where you said "see there?! The enemy will have a 2 second window to attack! The sin is TOTALLY F***ed." What did you do afterwards? You pointed the finger at another class.
Pointing the finger at another class is NOT an argument for why Sins are balanced. Hell, it's an escape. You can't counter any arguments against sins so you're changing the subject. So please, for the future, next time you try to make an argument, make sure it has to do with ASSASSINS first.
This:
"Assassins are overpowered."
"Ya but George Bush was a bad president."
Is what you're doing. That is not an argument. That's called changing the subject, which you're probably doing because you can't prove me wrong.
Now onto Psys...
I'm assuming you mean BM's, Wizards and Barbs. These are the three classes I've always fought where they felt doomed, and I started to feel bad after winning all the time. So yeah, I actually looked into these three to see how they could beat me. I put myself in their shoes and yeah, I found some ways.
For example, BM...
You call Psychic Will overpowered, cause it's an 8 second physical damage immunity. Well, hold on. All a BM has to do is Roar of Pride and they've canceled out 6 seconds of our 8 second damage immunity. Next issue is our stuns. We have two of them; one as an attack and one when we get attacked. Well, BM's have a skill to counter this. It's called Will of the Bodhisatva. You guys actually have the exact same skill (cept no evasion bonus): Maze Steps. BM casts that, doesn't get stunned and he's able to freely attack the Psy without Soul of Stunning interrupting him.
The BM can also still use that 8 second damage immunity time to build chi via meleeing us, even if it doesn't do damage. This would give a sword BM for example enough chi to cast Mage Bane. This would slow down our spell casting. A Hammer/axe BM on the other hand would get another 6 second stun on us via his spark skill.
Keep in mind that in both cases, the BM STILL has Aeolian Blade, giving him another shot at stunning us. Roar of Pride also only has a 15 second cooldown. We however, have 30 second cooldowns on both our stuns.
A fight against BM's for me typically goes Earth Vector ---> Attack (attempt to Immobilize) ----> Psychic Will ----> Attack ----> Soulburn (fight usually doesn't last this long), with Soul of Stunning on to help me whenever I get hit. The strategy I just listed cancels out Earth Vector, Soul of Stunning and my immobilize. I COULD theoretically switch Psychic Will with Soulburn, making that 35 missing chi rather costly for the BM, but honestly that's also costly for me. Even if Soulburn is very powerful, Psys are still very squishy so the free shots he'd be able to get in while I'm stunned would probably be about equal to the damage he'd take from Soulburn. For an Axe BM, it'd definitely be worth it anyways, just to get his extra 6 second stun skill.
Another alternative is that Roar of Pride casts quicker than Earth Vector. If the BM is near the Psy when the fight starts, he can out-cast the Psy and stun him. This lets the BM freely get a hit in and get Soul of Stunning off. Once both are unstunned, the BM can again out-cast the Psy stun-wise. All the BM needs is a moment where we're not attacking and he's free to one hit us. Simple as that.
A Barbarian however, I would call the Psy's natural prey. They don't have any way to resist stun (not counting genie skills) until level 79 and they don't have long-enough stun to cancel out Psychic Will. For a Barb, he'll simply want to have Armageddon handy and learn when it's safe to cast it and when it's not. (Referring to Soul of Retaliation here)
A Wizard can actually silence us quicker than we can stun them. Check the Channel time on Force of Will compared to Earth Vector. Other than that, they simply hit harder than us and we are, as I said, very squishy. One powerful hit or Essential Sutra and things get iffy for us. There are lots of possibilites here and both the Psy and the Wiz could win, but hey, we're not overpowered here.
Another thing worth mentioning is, I was expecting you to say something about the genie stun immunity making my strategy with the Sin fall apart. Well no, it doesn't, because as it's been mentioned before, a Sin has dozens of options in both the ailment and damage department.
However, the stun immunity skill against a Psy? We fall apart. If a BM is to resist our stuns via the genie skill and not via his skill, then he saves himself two sparks. He's then free to stun us as much as he likes and use his massive damage skills, to which we'd quickly die. We could use stun immunity too, in which case I'd say the BM would have to alter marrow magic, plan on using his healing skill maybe, and focus on killing us with as few powerful hits as possible. Same goes for Wizard; without stun then it simply turns into a damage competition, where they can beat us half the time.
My point is, we lose A LOT of edge when stun immunity is called into play. Why? Because it's our only reliable ailment; our freeze only has 60% success rate (and only works against BMs and Barbs) and our silence is passive. Sins however have every ailment in the book, all ready to be used whenever the sins like. An opponent who uses stun immunity against a sin simply needs to be silenced or put to sleep until the immunity wears off.
Now
So now that I've answered your question about how a Psy can be defeated, where's my answer on how to beat a Sin? I'm still waiting...I AGOREY0 -
Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »Ah I know what you mean but also why take genie skills into consideration and blame the sin when nobody talks about anti-sin like stun prevention skills for the victim? Kinda unfair imo.
Because you can do it from stealth and pop out whenever you feel like . What are the others supposed to do ? Absolute domain or pop an apoth defense pot or defensive skill or stun immunity skill just like that ? If the sin see's that they can just keep in stealth still it wears off .
Only way would be jumping around like idiots for whole minutes hoping for a sin that might not even be there to come out . Is that rly an option?It's all about LoL,yo.0 -
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erf... Kenye, go away.
100% Team Taylor here on these forums>_>"[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Semi Retired Psychic of Radiance faction//Entering full retirement upon the release of ĠuildẂars2 or an otherwise drastic change in PWI management.
"Exploiting a glitch is a violation of the ToS under User Conduct:
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players"-frankieraye ............guess he changed his mind.0 -
AFTER.
i wouldnt have returned to pwi if it wasnt for the TIDEBORN EXPANSION!!!!!!!
because there are new areas, new races, NEW EXCITEMENT!!
all u ppl voting be4 are so party poopers xD0 -
@Longknife: chill out O.o you sound like you've been beaten by some sin or something lol
The damage you said, 25k, is reduced to 1/4 because of PvP damage reduction AND physical defense. Still think it's that great?
Your skill damage is not WAAAAAY less than what those skills do, you're just theory crafting from ecatomb and didn't even think there's PvP reduction + physical resistance? >.>
The reason I compared with psy's is that sins are NOT the only classes with lots of stuns and tricks to avoid damage for some time. Oh my, you even mentioned yourself about BMs (versus psy), well done I guess. You figured out sins are not the only ones with a lot of stun locks, hmm?
So... about your quote: "see there?! The enemy will have a 2 second window to attack! The sin is TOTALLY F***ed." You whine for this exact same reason tbh. You can stun sins during this time yourself, then attack them when they're vulnerable (and we're squishy)
Oh wait OH NOES!!! When your stun lock wears off you're toasted because you give sin time to act!!! While when sin's stun lock falls apart for 2 sec, it's nothing like you said eh?
What now, are you gonna complain sins kill anyone 1v1 without any stuns from both parts? You think we have god DPS and at the same time survival? We just got nice stuns + high DPS but are squishy, which makes us natural predators of other squishies, while BMs have good survivability and stuns but less DPS (unless a fist BM - now tell me how to kill 5 atk/sec BM, k?) which means they are good versus sins or other heavies and not that great against casters... actually wait I think they're decent versus casters too with the mdef skill up.
And lol I kinda guess from your tone of your post you got ***** by a good geared sin, or some friends of yours, while you didn't see great geared psy's or other classes in action. Fist BMs with lots of -int would rip apart someone more than a sin, and powerful psy's soulburn 1-2 shots most others, not like you said like "it's nothing"
Oh and if you'll complain, and for those people that do complain about the fact that sins can start the fight prepared with every buff possible slowly in stealth etc... I'm tired of this ****. Tbh yes it may be OP but that's no reason to nerf our fighting capabilities because we'll be gimped in PvE as well.
I'm tired of all the QQs about random unorganized PK from stealth (because sin is prepared while victim is not). I'd really like that ALL buffs even genies used in stealth, to unstealth you, like in many other games I played, so all of you can shut up with this already.First 103 on Raging Tide 30 Oct 2010
Quit.0 -
Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »
(unless a fist BM - now tell me how to kill 5 atk/sec BM, k?) which means they are good versus sins or other heavies and not that great against casters... actually wait I think they're decent versus casters too with the mdef skill up.
A small addition. BMs should not [and smart ones do not] use alter marrow magical against venos and clerics, who have nixes and physical damage spells, respectively. Not sure about wizards, since blade tempest is half physical; that could kill them too.
The marrows are very hit or miss in pvp. Used with caution.0
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