reasons why you want or dont want sins in ur squad

Somebody - Raging Tide

I think I'm going to have to call a mod to close this thread, cause this is turning out to be a huge flame war.
and it was never my intention to get to this point.
I was hoping to gain more information about people VS sins and i did so I'm glad about that.
Giodia, most of the things you said don't make sense to me.
sin cant manage aggro? BS. they can manage aggro, we get to choose not to and stealth or just wait and DD
archer better DD then sin? no, the only way they will do more dmg is with better refines and the fact they can lower the boss HP down a lot with sharptooth.
Stealth does reset boss aggro, i've tried many time before and it has always worked.
sins are NOT better then any other class there equal to them.
i would love a sharptooth anyday from any archer, it helps a lot.
i love the archer ranged DD ability on AOE bosses.
i love mage high DD powers.
i've played sin/archer/veno myself and tried out my friends barb and cleric every now and then.
i know how to manage aggro, i know what barbs do to keep aggro, i know how it is to be a cleric in squad.

after reading everything i've concluded that many people don't squad sins cause most of them are arrogant and annoying. however those who actually know what there doing, are a great add to any squad. we just don't get much change to prove ourselves.

Lusca - Sanctuary

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Pretty soon, it will be able to do BH and I will be able to test this stealth thing myself.

So that sin did not level up his stealth skill higher than the boss, so the boss did not reset aggro.

This awareness skill is supposed to be able to be maxed by 74 and someone got lazy?

theres these things called spirit and coin that are needed for skills

I do wonder how many sins read the stealth on aggro thing and went out to try, only to die b:laugh

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He disappeared. Quite frankly, I wasn't able to see him any where. Boss went back to Barb after a fr. But whatever right?

if he was in your squad when he used stealth you would be able to see the ghostly image of him much like how a sin looks on your own screen when you use stealth, the only way he would of vanished completely is if he used focus mind or tidal protection and even then it's only for a couple of seconds

Actually **** bags which some people may have been, I have learnt something useful on my upcoming sin. Therefore, it's still an obligation to thank all failz sin and non-fail (**** bags included) sins alike.

Thank you for giving such an wealth of information so that I can prevent myself from being like the failz sins (**** bags included).

have you made even a single post that isn't full of bull****, or is bull**** all you can post?

Thinkalot - Dreamweaver

BACK ON TOPIC.

I love to play my sin. I love the skills, the possibilities and its power. I have a lvl 86 cleric and i like that one, but even so, my sin is my pride here.

Going into my BH with 2 veno, 2 cleric and an archer without any Barb or BM, and me as sin tanking 3 bosses with just 1 cleric healing me is just awesomeness.

Anyone who doesn't want a sin in their squad because sins are so-called "squishy" "don't do dmg" or whatever moronic reason is stupid.

I've saved many lives in bh's retaking aggro from squishy clerics/whiz/archers , did my fair share of tanking and DDing, and generally, plain dominated the mobs in those instances.

If/when my sq cleric is in danger, i'll sacrifice myself to take aggro to keep him/her alive. If the veno is getting banged my 3 mobs at once, i'll throw myself in there to save her life.

Nobody that i partied with will say that sins aren't worth to be squadded with. That's one thing i'm sure of.

Rubycc - Heavens Tear

HairyFocker - Lost City wrote: »

you heard it folks.. stealthing does not cause the agro to vanish..
so please stop this 'non-sense' about stealth and agrob:shutup

sorry i was trying to read the whole thread before replying to anything but i just need to reply to this.

stealthing DOES indeed WIPE ALL YOUR AGGRO on a mob! go up to a boss and solo it for a while and force stealth, the boss will deaggro you.

fight a boss with a squad and when they wipe and your the only one left and teh boss is coming after you, force stealth and the boss will run back to its spawn.

forcing stealth will wipe all aggro you have.. completely, glodia says it wont like she knows everything, dont be fooled by her

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Rubycc - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sorry i was trying to read the whole thread before replying to anything but i just need to reply to this.

stealthing DOES indeed WIPE ALL YOUR AGGRO on a mob! go up to a boss and solo it for a while and force stealth, the boss will deaggro you.

fight a boss with a squad and when they wipe and your the only one left and teh boss is coming after you, force stealth and the boss will run back to its spawn.

forcing stealth will wipe all aggro you have.. completely, glodia says it wont like she knows everything, dont be fooled by her

yes it make it deaggro and go back. but stealing aggro at lets say 50%, force stalth ( then should be impossible do again if u was right) but it aint, been dead to this before, cos force stealth been on CD lol. so during fightit may lose soem hate, but not make value to 0. well if it do, then soemthign is broken when i can get aggro back at lower hp after force stealth.

Rubycc - Heavens Tear

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yes it make it deaggro and go back. but stealing aggro at lets say 50%, force stalth ( then should be impossible do again if u was right) but it aint, been dead to this before, cos force stealth been on CD lol. so during fightit may lose soem hate, but not make value to 0. well if it do, then soemthign is broken when i can get aggro back at lower hp after force stealth.

i'v enever stolen hate before after forcing stealth. if i grab hate and force stealth even near teh start of the fight, the tank usually gets enough hate to where i can't catch up to his aggro lvl by end of fight. it IS possible, but not likely, you either glitched or got lucky with crits.. or yoru tank sucked, one of those 3

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

He disappeared. Quite frankly, I wasn't able to see him any where. Boss went back to Barb after a fr. But whatever right?

this is why ppl shouldn't argue with giodia and why all of her posts against TBs are full of BS. she cant even tell apart focus mind from stealth animations. obviously if you had any clue what you were talking about you would know that a sin can still be seen in stealth by all squad members no matter what your lvl is and no matter what your awareness and stealth lvl is.

if u wasnt able to see him anywhere it means he used focus mind. but focus mind DOES NOT bring u into stealth mode. the animation just makes u dissapear from sight for a second and then instantly reappear. if he would have used stealth u would have been able to see a transparent figure of him since u guys were in the same party.

so yet again giodia u show ur ignorance on the TB classes yet u continue to bash themb:chuckle

Lusca - Sanctuary

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yes it make it deaggro and go back. but stealing aggro at lets say 50%, force stalth ( then should be impossible do again if u was right) but it aint, been dead to this before, cos force stealth been on CD lol. so during fightit may lose soem hate, but not make value to 0. well if it do, then soemthign is broken when i can get aggro back at lower hp after force stealth.

what level were you and what level was the boss?

Limeball - Heavens Tear

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Also, since sins being LA, they could technically tank bosses just as well, if nor better than an archer. But I see them unwilling to tank bh 59 bosses and giving lame excuses like "i will die".

If I can tank it, a LA sin sure can.

I'm more than happy to tank the BH59 bosses. With my charm, bloodsuck, and if the cleric actually uses IH to heal me it's a sinch. I'd rather tank than have to cut my damage in half, it's faster and I hold aggro well.

Problem is finding people that will actually let you tank. Just remember however that robes have higher magical defense than light armour.

Lusca - Sanctuary

Limeball - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm more than happy to tank the BH59 bosses. With my charm, bloodsuck, and if the cleric actually uses IH to heal me it's a sinch. I'd rather tank than have to cut my damage in half, it's faster and I hold aggro well.

Problem is finding people that will actually let you tank. Just remember however that robes have higher magical defense than light armour.

wouldn't it be better to have someone tank whos charm doesn't tick?
not saying you couldn't tank them, i'm sure you'd do great but charms aren't exactly cheap and if a barbs charm wouldn't tick, wouldn't it be better to let them tank?

HairyFocker - Lost City

Rubycc - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sorry i was trying to read the whole thread before replying to anything but i just need to reply to this.

stealthing DOES indeed WIPE ALL YOUR AGGRO on a mob! go up to a boss and solo it for a while and force stealth, the boss will deaggro you.

fight a boss with a squad and when they wipe and your the only one left and teh boss is coming after you, force stealth and the boss will run back to its spawn.

forcing stealth will wipe all aggro you have.. completely, glodia says it wont like she knows everything, dont be fooled by her

if you would have read further.. you would know that i was being sarcastic..
nayway, no harm done..b:victory

Lusca - Sanctuary

HairyFocker - Lost City wrote: »

if you would have read further.. you would know that i was being sarcastic..
nayway, no harm done..b:victory

>=[ bugger you, i like the way sins stand

Psudeotrophe - Dreamweaver

I think the only time I ever broke from the group was when I was told to do so. "Psu go kill the gate guard cause you can get around them easier" or "Psu jump through the wall and murder the guard so we all can get by the locked door"

Admittingly I had to try it out the first few times I enter into a new fb to see what exactly I can hide from, you know, if its gonna work or Im gonna get bludgeoned to death. I think all Sin's at somepoint have kinda faultered to that fascination. Typically however, I dont break from the group, unless Im told to do so, or I know how to make it easier on the squad itself by "killing mob X to open Secret door that has a shortened path to get to X boss" Kinda infamous in fb29 and 51 for that.

But in that regard, is that a bad thing if it shaves off time from the run itself and the sin is negating like 10-20 mobs the party would've had to have killed just to get to said gate guard?


Sins dont have much of a purpose outside of sneaky kills like that really, yea we do impressive dps, and have minute tanking ability (minute as in we tank about half as well as a bm). Now Im not trying to state that it should be done in all cases, especially if the sin is being a jerk about it and skating to the boss to go afk while everyone else trudges through the horde. But there are cases when it comes in handy for us to manuver in and out of the croud, because we are a bit less grained in our ways like barbs clerics archers and wizys.

I think the freedom of movement the sins do posess should be looked at, if used appropriately, as a blessing, but when its abused, it just tarnishes our roll and makes the rest of us look bad b:cry

BoozeLover - Dreamweaver

^Veno pull/Cleric heal/ Tank keep aggro/sin go stealth pull&kill guard
b:victory

Anyway as Fist(mostly) BM I just love Bloodpaint, won't help if I work as tank but sure do as DD to take few AoE hits.

Then we got few places with groups of melee mobs that are easily AoE'd and this is where sins doesn't shine(ofc they can DD and if mob starts aggro squishy tele+stun it and drag back to AoE)

Blide - Lost City

Thats true but speak about poor sins ,Remedies lol remedies always help...you are past lvl 60 okay...thats far you are past 30 you can use focus powder for mp(50reg/sec in battle 25/sec)Mp is not a problem for 10 minutes and life powder 50 hp reg in battle 25...with bloodpaint 1.25 attack speed many CHs and increased CH damage that wolf emblem do...lol I never died in AOEs that were cast down by bosses...why?used these things below pherhaps 1-2hp pots and 2nd wind Ginie skill it always saves you

RADD_RATT - Harshlands

ok so i didnt read this whole rediculously huge thread. but i think its funny that people QQ about TBs being OP and then the same people QQ saying they dont do well in squads. i cant speak for psys but as far as sins, a good sin is VERY helpful to a squad. bloodpaint isnt all that helpful sinse barbs and BMs cant deal the same damage as a sin but its nice none the less. subsea strike is like dragons that i can use every 30 seconds, whats not to like? rib strike makes the boss hit you half as often. and even if the party would have been fie with out that (which it usually is) im sure the underaprieated barb would like the big discount in thier repair bill. and sins are GREAT at saving poor squishies runing away from accidentaly agroed mobs. im not even joking here the whole party is waiting at the boss for the cleric and "HELP HELP" the cleric yells as they run through the instense. as the party takes off i get there first becase i have 2 speed skills and holy path. the noob had about 5 mobs on him sub sea strike, agroed 3 of them, earthen rift got the other 2, shadow escape ftw. it really sucks when im going for that and the cleric heals me....ruins everything.

StretchIt - Harshlands

RADD_RATT - Harshlands wrote: »

ok so i didnt read this whole rediculously huge thread. but i think its funny that people QQ about TBs being OP and then the same people QQ saying they dont do well in squads. i cant speak for psys but as far as sins, a good sin is VERY helpful to a squad. bloodpaint isnt all that helpful sinse barbs and BMs cant deal the same damage as a sin but its nice none the less. subsea strike is like dragons that i can use every 30 seconds, whats not to like? rib strike makes the boss hit you half as often. and even if the party would have been fie with out that (which it usually is) im sure the underaprieated barb would like the big discount in thier repair bill. and sins are GREAT at saving poor squishies runing away from accidentaly agroed mobs. im not even joking here the whole party is waiting at the boss for the cleric and "HELP HELP" the cleric yells as they run through the instense. as the party takes off i get there first becase i have 2 speed skills and holy path. the noob had about 5 mobs on him sub sea strike, agroed 3 of them, earthen rift got the other 2, shadow escape ftw. it really sucks when im going for that and the cleric heals me....ruins everything.

b:laugh lolz that happened to me during bh drake, stupid cleric trying to act hero

klizzard

I only have a prob squadding with 8/9x sin. And thats cause many of them oracled without ever taking the time to learn the ins and outs of their char. I don't appreciate loosing exp and time because a Tide spams skills like they're facerolling their keyboard. When more ppl are naturally hi I'll reconsider.

And no offense, but alot of Tide, especially sins, tend to be over-confident of their abilities, rude, and noobish. I'm not sure why that is...unless the idea of a PvP class just attracted every assh@le on Lost City server..

.
I don't know why ppl won't squad with lower lvls though. It might just be that they already know and feel comfy with the other classes. We have lower lvl Tide in my guild and they're fine in squad.

EDIT: to ppl above...the cleric might not understand how your char works, or know how to recognize when u trying to pull that off. Most of the time other classes would be expecting a heal.

Somebody - Raging Tide

I only have a prob squadding with 8/9x sin. And thats cause many of them oracled without ever taking the time to learn the ins and outs of their char. I don't appreciate loosing exp and time because a Tide spams skills like they're facerolling their keyboard. When more ppl are naturally hi I'll reconsider.

I'm in my higher 8x but I learned to play my class. would you leave me behind cause others didn't?
i know how to play my class well, and i manage aggro like it should. the only reason i usually get aggro is when the barb or bm's dies by accident. and i end up saving the squad by running giving the clerics time to rez everybody. and if the clerics are dead do and there are still some people left behind besides me. i'll run and stealth later on. so the boss won't kill them.
it's really not to hard to learn the class. it just takes some common sense.

klizzard

Somebody - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm in my higher 8x but I learned to play my class. would you leave me behind cause others didn't?
i know how to play my class well, and i manage aggro like it should. the only reason i usually get aggro is when the barb or bm's dies by accident. and i end up saving the squad by running giving the clerics time to rez everybody. and if the clerics are dead do and there are still some people left behind besides me. i'll run and stealth later on. so the boss won't kill them.
it's really not to hard to learn the class. it just takes some common sense.

Good for you! But how the hell am I supposed to know you've bothered to take the time to learn your class compared to the 9/10 on my server who didn't? Are you expecting people to magically know that you're different from the rest?

In fact I tried it again yesterday and it was a disaster. Ended up having to go to town thanks to aggro-maniac sin in squad. Many Tide in the 8/9x range just haven't put time into understanding how to use the char outside the PvP aspect. And knowing PvP doesn't translate into knowing how to work in a team.

I suppose I wasn't clear enough. I personally know some hi lvl Tide. I will squad with them in an instant because they play their char correctly. But any unknown 8/9x I am extremely nervous about. And its not like its an unfounded nervousness either. If its between an unknown sin vrs wiz or archer, I will ALWAYS take the older class cause the chances of them doing stupid **** is, at the moment, considerably lower.

And, like I said in my post, I will reconsider as more 8/9x Tide become competent with their chars. At the present moment the odds of getting a over-confident moron who thinks he can tank Pole up-close-and-personal or whateve is too high.

PinkSuccubuS - Lost City

as i see it bm and barb are awesome melee and can keep mobs at bay sin i must heal 24/7 meaning healing more why would i want that.
LOOK u wana play sin great for u i mean its un awesome pvp CLASS
but dont expect me 2 heal u all the freaking time cos u agro all mobs u see
i knew there are a few good ones but fact is ur class is not a pve class at all
no buff skill u have will help my cleric in any way so for my own sake i keep my bm and barb NR1 love those buffs and sins buff 0b:chuckle

Zacchaeus - Dreamweaver

PinkSuccubuS - Lost City wrote: »

as i see it bm and barb are awesome melee and can keep mobs at bay sin i must heal 24/7 meaning healing more why would i want that.
LOOK u wana play sin great for u i mean its un awesome pvp CLASS
but dont expect me 2 heal u all the freaking time cos u agro all mobs u see
i knew there are a few good ones but fact is ur class is not a pve class at all
no buff skill u have will help my cleric in any way so for my own sake i keep my bm and barb NR1 love those buffs and sins buff 0b:chuckle

I will agree Barb and BM(both HA wearers) can keep most mobs at bay much better than a Sin(LA wearer)...but we all have our own skills to allow us to avoid damage and sustain an attack that would otherwise kill us - BM and Barbs do not have this ability....

and as for aggroing mobs...ive seen more clerics now and days aggro more than me with their healing.. and unless the barb or another class can quickly intervene ur gonna take a lot of damage or die...(but with a sin we can teleport and stun/seal/immobolize) the target...

Also for PvE we are great at it...Fast Attack Speed, High Crit chance, Bloodpaint(for us and BM/Barb), Rib Strike(lowered attack speed of the boss/mob), SSS(dmg increase on target), Focused Mind(25% chance to avoid or take 1 dmg)...so unless u have a decent lvl sin above 50...plz dont try to count us out on what u "THINK" you know about us...

/_Neptunes_ - Heavens Tear23

Pro:

Sins do a lot of damage , so I would want them in squad. They got teh bloodpaint buff for melee bloodsuck too.


con: There aoe are limited so in those squads like RB they gimped. Less HP/ def then BM/Barb


If a sin had group invis or non stop aoe we would be more attractive
A lot of times no ones looking for a dirty ol sin though. BM's usually love the sin in squad for the paint especially if they need to tank cause no barb in squad. Shot out to my BM bud , Durzo b:laugh

I wear LA or HA at this point. HA helps use less pots when grinding , and help when a sin sometimes has to tank. There also pros and cons using it in PVP.

I don't worry much with aoe bosses though I got pots , Genie skills and chaos so healers don't really worry about me to much. I usually the last one standing if something goes wrong too due to invis.

If sins get a Sage skill to rez we would be loved in times of wipe b:laugh cause ish happens , sometimes people pull when cleric afk or whatever you know. So if we got something like that to rez a cleric I imagine we be more handy.

Ussichu - Sanctuary

^^^So those made to kill, can bring back the killed? sweet revenge of killing, reviving, and killing againb:laugh

anyways, Sins are great at straggler control. As in those mobs who slip the BM and barb and head for the squishies teleport, stun, seal, freeze, all great to let a squishy get away while the barb and BM handle the main crowd. let aggro hungry fools die though

StretchIt - Harshlands

^wut he said.

Highestelf - Heavens Tear

Why isn't the Cleric "Squad healing" or BB with aoe boss?
Obviously when Tank needs Purify the option is squad heal - if Purify not an issue than BB should keep squad alive - if anyones hp is still at risk with BB it is up to them to burn some hp rejuvination out of their own pocket.

Anyone with experience in FB69 Pole/Nob should have learned how their role contributes to survival of all squad members.

It's really not rocket science.

If I was in a squad with ignorant, Fail cleric in squad I would consider sitting in back too!! lmfao

For the record - If tank is weak barb/bm? I'm not gonna break IH spam and squad heals to rez a dumbass either - rather have 1 miss out on kill then have party wipe! Of course that rez will come if I can do without jeapordizing squad.

wtvdie wrote: »

well, for tts where the boss has a physical aoe, im seeing very often sins sitting in the back leeching. why? cause they die

sins that dont sit at the back are wasting the cleric's mp in rezes.

when they steal agro, the shout at clerics for not healing them.

aoe= dead sin.

UltraStatic - Raging Tide

I for one have never had a problem getting into a squad; and 9 times out of 10. I will get a invite to join the bh the next day from the same group of ppl. Its all about how well u know your class enough to be in a squad effectively. On the other hand it did help when they nerfed the agreo of the sins skills.

They need to do the same for psy's or ppl need to learn how to play there class better. There is nothing i hate more than running after a mob that is attacking a range class. Cuz they don't know how to work there class.

StainedBlade - Heavens Tear

UltraStatic - Raging Tide wrote: »

I for one have never had a problem getting into a squad; and 9 times out of 10. I will get a invite to join the bh the next day from the same group of ppl. Its all about how well u know your class enough to be in a squad effectively. On the other hand it did help when they nerfed the agreo of the sins skills.

I have quite a few people that ask me to do BH with them when I log on especially clerics. I guess I got a reputation with several people that I am someone that will get the job done fast and hold my own instead of getting squashed by everything in sight.

-Flop Flop- I'm a fish

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear

/_Neptunes_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If sins get a Sage skill to rez we would be loved in times of wipe b:laugh cause ish happens , sometimes people pull when cleric afk or whatever you know. So if we got something like that to rez a cleric I imagine we be more handy.

Wonder how the animation would look like.....

Yorick - Raging Tide

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wonder how the animation would look like.....

We stab you in the chest really hard to wake you up. Kinda like a defibrillator, but a dagger. No difference really b:chuckle